View Full Version : dress code at Thurso High School
NickInTheNorth
29-Jun-11, 10:59
Just a heads up to all parents of pupils at Thurso High School.
The school have randomly decided that the definition of "plain black trousers" is now different than it has been for the past 2 years (at least).
My daughters have both worn plain black combat pants since they started at the school. This has never been a problem (confirmed by the depute head today). Now however they are suddenly no longer acceptable. Black denim jeans are fine, but not combats. Apparently plain black pockets stop them being plain black trousers. There is no decoration on them, just plain black stitching and a single plain black button.
So there's going to be trouble as my daughter will be wearing her plain black trousers until such time as they either wear out or she grows out of them. I can't afford to get rid of perfectly good clothes on the whim of the school.
Good on you. I don't understand why combats would not be ok but jeans is. No employer likes jeans as they are too informal so why should the school? My brothers go to the high school and i went and left before the uniform came in place and i think the colour scheme is daft. All black is asking for trouble as the kids are stupid enough on the roads as it is. Now if they wore bright yellow then nobody have any bother seeing them lol.
NickInTheNorth
29-Jun-11, 11:08
The depute head I spoke to today even admits that my daughters combats are ok, but still says if she wears them she will done for violation of the dress code...
crashbandicoot1979
29-Jun-11, 11:19
What happens if pupils violate the dress code? Are they sent home to change? Seems a bit of an over-reaction to me (by the school, that is) - but if the depute head says they're OK, how can she then be done for violation? A contradiction, no?
dragonfly
29-Jun-11, 11:22
what are the consequences of violating the dress code? I'd be tempted to stitch up the pockets on legs and then they are no longer functional as pockets! Why does the depute agree they're ok but still says to change - I'd ask for further clarification as to why ok then to not now.......my son used to wear combats and no probs back then either.......rules!!!
NickInTheNorth
29-Jun-11, 11:29
the reason they are now not "plain black trousers" is because they have a pocket on the leg. The ones in question have no decoration and are flat pockets with a simple flap and single button. No decoration at all. The decision has been made because they don't allow any decorative stitching, and the leg pockets break that rule - only they don't because there isn't any decorative stitching! (and the depute stated that these trousers are ok but other combats are not so these ones are not allowed!!).
I have already emailed the school, the director of education and the chairman of the education committee stating that Eilish will be attending school wearing these trousers next session and stating that I do not expect the threatened disciplinary action being taken, and also asking what alternative education provision will be made for my daughter if she is not allowed in school. Just waiting for a reply - The school has just read their email, so we'll see what they have to say!
Gordon Bonnet
29-Jun-11, 12:58
Seems an inordinate fuss over a pair of kecks. I'd bite the bullet - my default reaction to any school edict is to support the school and do not undermine its authority.In my opinion this sets a bad example to ones children. Human nature being what it is staff might not be so kindly disposed towards them in future.I should be pleased your daughter's school has standards as just one or two (a minority) around here resemble a refuge for the ragbag.
Seems an inordinate fuss over a pair of kecks. I'd bite the bullet - my default reaction to any school edict is to support the school and do not undermine its authority.In my opinion this sets a bad example to ones children. Human nature being what it is staff mifht be so kindly disposed towards them in future.I should be pleased your daughters school has standards as just one or two (a minority) around here resemble a refuge for the ragbag.
Am inclined to agree with you Gordon. The fact that they got away with wearing combats in the past is unfortunate - can't see how they could have been considered 'school uniform'.
Nick - quoting one Depute's (personal?) opinion is really unhelpful. As parents we should support school policy as far as possible. Posting on here before you have had an answer to your email seems a bit premature. Hope your kids don't regret your stance.
NickInTheNorth
29-Jun-11, 13:18
so you believe that is sets a good example to children that any authority should be allowed to make an arbitrary change in the interpretation of rules.
To say one day something is acceptable, and another day say the same thing is unacceptable under the same rules?
Arbitrary and capricious rules and laws are the mark of despotic regime and I stand up to such regimes where ever I find them.
The dress code has not changed, the dress code still allows plain black trousers to be worn, plain black trousers, as per the dress code will still be worn. My children always abide by school rules. The school has changed it's mind on what plain black trousers are. I have not!
NickInTheNorth
29-Jun-11, 13:24
Am inclined to agree with you Gordon. The fact that they got away with wearing combats in the past is unfortunate - can't see how they could have been considered 'school uniform'.
Nick - quoting one Depute's (personal?) opinion is really unhelpful. As parents we should support school policy as far as possible. Posting on here before you have had an answer to your email seems a bit premature. Hope your kids don't regret your stance.
They did not "get away with wearing combats" they were totally permissible until the school changed their interpretation of what constitutes plain black trousers.
The depute spoke to me on behalf of the school, it was the "official" position, not a personal opinion.
I had a discussion and was told that the rules have changed, and that my daughter would be disciplined, that was totally unacceptable.
I support the school 100% as long as they are being fair and reasonable.
As it happens I have now had a further discussion with the school and we have reached an agreement which is acceptable to both sides. My daughter will be attending school wearing plain black trousers.
When I buy new trousers I will be buying trousers which accord with the new interpretation of the rules.
The whole concept of dress codes seems absurd to me.
ShelleyCowie
29-Jun-11, 13:29
I have to agree with Nick here, if his child has combat trousers which are plain black then why cant they be worn? Not as if we can all afford to go spending money on clothes willy-nilly because the school says so.
What really bugs me about hearing this is that i see alot (and i mean alot) of the high school kids whether it is girls who are wearing mini-skirts and high heels, or the boys wearing trackies and trainers (not black) that get away with it. So why cant Nicks child wear plain black combats?
Have they clamped down on this? I thought the kids looked really smart in their uniforms, but it soon fizzed out that it was a rule to wear the uniform and the children decided to wear what they liked.
It seems to me that Thurso high gave a colour code rather than a dress code. The students look a mess in their patch-work quilt array of black and red clothing. Good for the school to finally be enforcing a level of discipline in there students' public appearance.
shin chan
29-Jun-11, 17:59
Is there also a new rule out that after the holidays that they must be wear shirts and ties. Shirts to be black or white and hoody must have the school logo on it and not sure about the polo shirts if they are still allowed and if so will they have to have the logo on it as well.
NickInTheNorth
29-Jun-11, 18:15
they can carry on wearing a polo shirt and a badged hoodie or fleece, or they can wear a black or white shirt with the school tie. If wearing the shirt and tie then no badged item of clothing is required.
That is my understanding of the change to the rules.
It seems to me that Thurso high gave a colour code rather than a dress code. The students look a mess in their patch-work quilt array of black and red clothing. Good for the school to finally be enforcing a level of discipline in there students' public appearance.
I agree that until now it seems to have been a colour code rather than a dress code... Maybe now that it's been in place for a while they are just progressing from simply black clothing to formal wear? Seems to make sense - although Nick I agree that you shouldnt be made to go out and buy new trousers when you already have ones in good condition, which were bought when combats were acceptable. The fair thing to do would be them to accept your daughter wearing these trousers until (as you said) they are grown out of/worn out. IMHO of course :)
annemarie482
29-Jun-11, 19:42
i agree with shelley.
its the mini skirts and high heels i find inappropriate......
DanaFlett
29-Jun-11, 20:18
Well i for another one i'am not happy about this,as mentioned,what happens to all the clothes we have now,no doubt the school makes money on selling the Thurso high logo arghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i agree with shelley.
its the mini skirts and high heels i find inappropriate......
I agree too. This should be picked up on not what type of plain black trousers a lassie is wearing. The mini skirt and high heels young girls look like.....well you know what. Don't think i'm allowed to type it! That should be stamped out, knee length minimum.
starflower
29-Jun-11, 22:22
It seems to me that Thurso high gave a colour code rather than a dress code. The students look a mess in their patch-work quilt array of black and red clothing. Good for the school to finally be enforcing a level of discipline in there students' public appearance.
As a parent whose oldest child is moving up to High School after the summer, i attended the parents night where we were shown four senior pupils wearing the acceptable colour and dress code, followed by four senior pupils wearing the right colour but not the appropriate outfits ( which included the short skirt and heels). The dress code and colour is smart but they need parents to support this and i have to agree with rob1 they are just trying to improve the pupils appearance and that has to be done by tightening the dress code
The short skirts and high heels is not only the pupils problem but their parents, they must be buying these clothes and allowing them to walk out of the door wearing them.
The short skirts and high heels is not only the pupils problem but their parents, they must be buying these clothes and allowing them to walk out of the door wearing them.
Exactly Brodar. These children's parents have got to take responsibility instead of thinking that what their child wears to school is the schools responsibility. Effective teaching only happens when the parents and the teachers back each other up.
Well i for another one i'am not happy about this,as mentioned,what happens to all the clothes we have now,no doubt the school makes money on selling the Thurso high logo arghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you have any idea of how tight budgets are in schools? If the school makes any money with the logo, it does not go toward paying for coffee in the staff room but toward educational expenses. And who benefits from that? The children attending the school.
The schools are not strict about school uniforms here. We had a blazer, a hat, a skirt, shirt and tie (not the clip on ones), socks and shoes- all identical. No variation. No choice of trousers for the girls. Any variation and you were sent home. Your skirt hem had to be on the floor when kneeling. Boys hair could not be touching their collars at the back, or you were sent home till your hair got cut.If you were seen in your school uniform outside of the school behaving in an inappropriate way or wearing it in a way considered to disrespect the school (for example rolling up the waist band to make the skirt shorter), you could be suspended. Now that was strict!
I'm surprised the concept of regimenting children and forcing them to conform hasn't come up yet.
The schools are not strict about school uniforms here. We had a blazer, a hat, a skirt, shirt and tie (not the clip on ones), socks and shoes- all identical. No variation. No choice of trousers for the girls. Any variation and you were sent home. Your skirt hem had to be on the floor when kneeling. Boys hair could not be touching their collars at the back, or you were sent home till your hair got cut.If you were seen in your school uniform outside of the school behaving in an inappropriate way or wearing it in a way considered to disrespect the school (for example rolling up the waist band to make the skirt shorter), you could be suspended. Now that was strict!
I think that this is how it should be - for every school. A uniform installs a level of pride and a sense of belonging. It develops personal discipline which is something that lacks in today’s youth. I don't wish to sound a prude, but the way in which some of the girls at the high school dress is completely inappropriate for not just school but in some cases their age as well (cleavage showing, short skirts, trousers so tight you can see depression of the arse crack and more make-up than Barbara Cartland) - it makes them look like they are 10 years older than they are or worse on the game.
annemarie482
30-Jun-11, 09:44
The short skirts and high heels is not only the pupils problem but their parents, they must be buying these clothes and allowing them to walk out of the door wearing them.
exactly .
why are they so happy to make them grow up so early?!
whats the rush?
its the mini skirts and high heels i find inappropriate......Especially on the boys.
Gordon Bonnet
30-Jun-11, 17:54
Do you have any idea of how tight budgets are in schools? If the school makes any money with the logo, it does not go toward paying for coffee in the staff room but toward educational expenses. And who benefits from that? The children attending the school.
The schools are not strict about school uniforms here. We had a blazer, a hat, a skirt, shirt and tie (not the clip on ones), socks and shoes- all identical. No variation. No choice of trousers for the girls. Any variation and you were sent home. Your skirt hem had to be on the floor when kneeling. Boys hair could not be touching their collars at the back, or you were sent home till your hair got cut.If you were seen in your school uniform outside of the school behaving in an inappropriate way or wearing it in a way considered to disrespect the school (for example rolling up the waist band to make the skirt shorter), you could be suspended. Now that was strict!
I agree wholheartedly with your first premise. Why would any caring parent object to the school making a little money?
Also: how much better is it for a child to wear the school logo and thus identify with, and hopefully BE proud of the establishment.
Someone also commented on the 'pressure children to conform' er...excuse me....
It is absolutely essential thay children ARE taught to conform ro certain rules MOST of the time - that's what being a Parent is all about, and also a Teacher. As for the 'regimentation' the same poster also mentioned nobody is suggesting militaristic brain-washing here but in so far as regimentation espouses a team ethic and a sense of the collective I am all for it. Free thinking can come out of school hours if necessary, freedom of expression too, and should be encouraged. They are at school to learn and if they are being pulled hither and thither following fads,
fashions and other inconsequential nonsense then the learning process is relegated behind an over emphasis on 'appearance'.
As while the new dress code is to give the school a smarter image where all feel they are part of the same team because they will be wearing the same, with the pressure of keeping to the trends aparently liffted. I do think however that the kids will find another way of expressing there status through for example shoe brands or in the latest top bag brands. So if you are going to make it stricter is should be on all aspects or not at all. I do agree that skirts should be to the knees however i do not see the the problem with PLAIN black/white clothing as it can look smart and can be bought at the fraction of the price compared to the uniform prices, an example of this is a t-shirt coasting up to £7 with a logo where as it would be cheaper for familys with resricted incomes to buy just plain ones from a high street retailer in packs if desired. This is the same with jumpers ect to.
I also understand that the punishment for not conforming to the new rules after summer is that if something can not be provided by the school for the day and that they can be sent home they will. This would then come with a check the next day to check that they were in uniform, as this part all ready stands. There is also petentual penalties for senior years (s5-6) as by this time the majority have chossen to stay on in the form of not getting privilages ect which could be said as fair enough as they should be setting and example to younger years but then again why should S6 pupils pay for the logo for all of one years use or less if bought during later terms. Couldn't they be allowed to wear office suits ect conforming to the other codes of course and wearing the tie for media and workshop events, this mantains the smart apperiance but yet the clothes have a functional use out of the classroom.
Gordon Bonnet
30-Jun-11, 18:46
exactly .
why are they so happy to make them grow up so early?!
whats the rush?
Very well said, and I agree 100% - childhood has been undermined since the nineteen seventies.
To quote a familiar song which first appeared in 1970 - Let it Be !
secrets in symmetry
01-Jul-11, 00:08
I agree too. This should be picked up on not what type of plain black trousers a lassie is wearing. The mini skirt and high heels young girls look like.....well you know what. Don't think i'm allowed to type it! That should be stamped out, knee length minimum.Why aren't you allowed to type Miley Cyrus?
The women I know that most resent young girls wearing short skirts and high heels are the ones that dressed (and behaved) like tarts at that age. I loved 'em then, and I still love 'em now. Drools....
Off-topic, but people really need to look into history to see what childhood meant in earlier times, I'm sick of hearing this romanticised rose-tinted view of it and the people complaining about kids growing up too soon.
Off-topic, but people really need to look into history to see what childhood meant in earlier times, I'm sick of hearing this romanticised rose-tinted view of it and the people complaining about kids growing up too soon.
Yes girls were married of and had babies at the age of 12/13 many years ago. We now know that having babies when a girl is still developing is very bad for her body and can cause problems for the girl. I don't see it as a bad thing that we want them to be children for longer when you look at this point.
I think its ridiculous that children as young as 6 are talking about their girlfriend/boyfriend.
Aye so what if children were not children for very long years ago, the fact is that we recognise the danger of them growing up before they can handle it physically as well as emotionally. There are often good advantages to changing views of the past.
Things change because they have to and can not carry on as they were. You only have to look at the views of corporal punishment in schools to see that. Many years ago you were beaten if you did not do your work right but did it help you learn? Did it help the children who needed a different approach to learning learn? No it did not. These children were labelled stupid and given no help to learn or was even recognised that they needed extra help or a different approach.
Say what you like but I do believe that the way children are taught is far better now as we will make the time to teach the children who before were labelled as stupid and ignored. Now we know that all children are different and learn differently whereas before it was thought they were the same and would learn the same.
I saw this clear as a bell with one child I worked with in a nursery that had spinia bifida. She was almost 3 and using a walker to get about as she could not walk. She was able to make sounds but no words. She was completely different to your average child but had so much potential if she had the right help and understanding. This child thrived and learnt and I have heard since can now walk and can say a few words. This is done to the amazing team who have her best interests at heart and her amazing mum. This girl would have been ignored and written of as good as dead many years ago. I am so very glad that times have changed.
But children should be children for longer as we know due to knowledge just how much they need to be and how they need to stay out of the adult world untill they are ready physically and emotionally.
Especially on the boys.
Not to mention the male teachers. It's no wonder when a girl accuses a male teacher of sexual harressment that he is not believed. One lassie I know was lying about this and she got the teacher almost suspended.
Gordon Bonnet
01-Jul-11, 19:16
Off-topic, but people really need to look into history to see what childhood meant in earlier times, I'm sick of hearing this romanticised rose-tinted view of it and the people complaining about kids growing up too soon.
Dunno about yours but mine was idyllic (childhood) - late 50's early 60's on a council-estate.
I'm guessing yours wasn't too clever.
Anyone who talks of a 'rose tinted view of childhood' in a negative sense is mean spirited.
We are supposed to have progressed as centuries have turned....what is it about childhood you so resent?
Dunno about yours but mine was idyllic (childhood) - late 50's early 60's on a council-estate.
Percy, your lying about your age again, and it was not an estate you lived in it was a scheme [lol]
Welcome back Percy. Coont till 10. :eek:
What about removing the offending pockets, a few minutes with a 'quick unpick' would soon do the trick!
Personnaly I dont see the point in a uniform at a school such as Thurso or Wick, its not as if there are loads of schools in the town that you need to know which pupil belongs to which school.
No uniforms were in place when I attended and i didnt see much in the way of bullying over who was wearing what either.
Personnaly I dont see the point in a uniform at a school such as Thurso or Wick, its not as if there are loads of schools in the town that you need to know which pupil belongs to which school.
No uniforms were in place when I attended and i didnt see much in the way of bullying over who was wearing what either.
School uniforms are not meant to identify school children, but to give them an identity with their school
And what benifit does this provide then, to either school or pupil?
School uniforms are meant to indoctrinate, pacify and beat down individuality, people in favour of them try to come up with disingenuous reasons like:
It improves discipline
It prevents bullying
It helps fund the school
At least some countries have the decency to make their school uniforms look militaristic and be done with it. I have nothing against uniforms unless they're forced on children and teenagers.
School uniforms are meant to indoctrinate, pacify and beat down individuality, people in favour of them try to come up with disingenuous reasons like:
It improves discipline
It prevents bullying
It helps fund the school
At least some countries have the decency to make their school uniforms look militaristic and be done with it. I have nothing against uniforms unless they're forced on children and teenagers.
Uniform.... is to have Uniformity!
Yes, some of us did have a wonderful childhood.
And where did you ever get such 'different' ideas about other people. 'Absurd' to you but perhaps to others....not so absurd.
In addition...Why do we have to slag the people who run the Schools...I dealt with the Public but would not want to be a Teacher.....an extremely difficult job. There must be discipline in the Schools, in fact the Teachers are nowadays unable to mete it out due to this carry on of everyone working against the system, rather that working with it.
The World including the Teachers is/are not perfect but we have a decent system....You should take a look elsewhere in the World.
And as I was told on more than one occasion, trying to fit into another Country's culture.....If you don't like it....am sure the rest follows.
oldmarine
03-Jul-11, 17:30
Just a heads up to all parents of pupils at Thurso High School.
The school have randomly decided that the definition of "plain black trousers" is now different than it has been for the past 2 years (at least).
My daughters have both worn plain black combat pants since they started at the school. This has never been a problem (confirmed by the depute head today). Now however they are suddenly no longer acceptable. Black denim jeans are fine, but not combats. Apparently plain black pockets stop them being plain black trousers. There is no decoration on them, just plain black stitching and a single plain black button.
So there's going to be trouble as my daughter will be wearing her plain black trousers until such time as they either wear out or she grows out of them. I can't afford to get rid of perfectly good clothes on the whim of the school.
Nick: I grew up during the depression of the 1930s. My mother could not afford to replace wearable clothing with something someone else would want my brother and I to wear. So I say "go along with what you can afford."
Personnaly I dont see the point in a uniform at a school such as Thurso or Wick, its not as if there are loads of schools in the town that you need to know which pupil belongs to which school.
No uniforms were in place when I attended and i didnt see much in the way of bullying over who was wearing what either.
When I was in THS there was also no uniform. I got bullied quite a fair bit because of what I wore. My parents could not afford much and some of my clothes were 2nd hand/donated. I got bullied because I would turn up in the same clothes each day, because we could not afford lots of different tops and jeans etc.. A uniform would have made life easier!
I used to wear my brother hand me downs at school and no designer brands either, you had to just get on with it.
I dont think the school uniform is particularily cheap either so you would ony go to school in one set of clothes still and as such nothing yould change. As said elsewhere if kids are not bullying for one thing then it will be the other, kids are cruel, cruel creatures whith little or no mercy.
I think if they have decided to put there foot down about the School uniform requirements, they have done it at the right time.
Its the summer break and most kids will need new clothes for the new school year and the shops have good offers on schoolwear at the moment.
But have you seen the variations in the sizing at the moment?
Lauren tried on an age 5 and an age 4 pinafore(same style) in Marks and Spencers yesterday and the age 5 was shorter...
We ended up getting age 3 clothes from matalan for her...they were long in the leg and actually fitted her in the waist without Granny having to take them in.
the sizing was strange everywhere .. different from "normal clothes" but they were cheap...I think her skirts cost £4 and trousers £5 and the bigger sizes were not much more for up to age 16 (but ladies size 6-10 plain black trousers may give a better fit) for girls.
First Footers are still waiting to get their school shoes in, they said it would be a couple of weeks yet, for all you parents with kids with skinny feet, this would be handy to know!
There is a lot of talk about it being the parents responsibility to ensure kids conform to school rules. This is of course correct. I do, however, wish that if a school is going to introduce a uniform they commit to it wholeheartedly. When my big lads went to school in Inverness I bought uniform items and then fought with them every morning about wearing it. The reason was that other children didn't wear it, there was no pealty for not wearing it and it wasn't 'cool'. The boys would take their other clothes to school and change into them on the bus. I spoke to the school to see what they were doing about non uniform dress and the answer was nothing. I'm not fighting with my children every day for the school to shrug their shoulders. The responsibility is a shared one. In the end I saidto the boys that theycould wear their ordinary clothes till such a time they were in trouble and then they had to wear uniform. They were NEVER in trouble. Now coats!!!! Coats are a whole other story !!!!!!
Gordon Bonnet
07-Jul-11, 13:34
Percy, your lying about your age again, and it was not an estate you lived in it was a scheme [lol]Darn! my. Cover blown. S'pose there are certain similarities. Just bobbed in...and out.All the best to auld adversaries and allies alike.
Alice in Blunderland
08-Jul-11, 00:19
Darn! my. Cover blown. S'pose there are certain similarities. Just bobbed in...and out.All the best to auld adversaries and allies alike. Don't you bother bobbing back out so soon!hang around and get stuck in again could be fun.
oldmarine
08-Jul-11, 12:27
There is a lot of talk about it being the parents responsibility to ensure kids conform to school rules. This is of course correct.
After my children grew to adult ages I asked them whether I had been too strong with discipline. They answered that they thought so at the time, but after growing to maturity with children of their own they thought I had been correct. Sure made me feel good.
I used to get bullied at school as well, for wearing hand me downs. Off my sister.
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