View Full Version : Well done to David Cameron
weezer 316
13-Jun-11, 13:38
Just like to say well done for pledging £800m for childs vaccinations around the world. Something that will actually make a difference to peoples lives.
"I would heartily second that, except that I live in the Laird of Brigadoon's temporary fiefdom, and it is an accepted fact (if not Gospel) that NO sleekit timorous English aristocratic spongebag trousered Old Etonian Bullingdon Club Tory bully born with a silver ladle in his posh gob could even consider giving money to people who don't even wear suits, and to whom he hasn't even been personally and individually introduced. Even if it is money snatched out of the quivering mouths of widows and orphans suffering from rickets and living in outside toilets with no central heating and an iffy bad back and only one 50 inch plasma screen TV and a second hand car and a six-pack of Widowmaker and a 40 a day habit......
My family have always voted Labour, until even THEY gave up on the welfare state. Now its SNP for me - I get to slag off ALL the efforts of ALL the other parties, and live happily on State Credit (until the bills come in)."
Joking (and rant) apart, well done, Dave! Every penny spent saving a life is gold: every penny spent supporting the idle feckless scroungers in this country is dross.
More foreign aid? I thought we were skint?
This is not really solving the problem is it? It's mearly a bit of feel good politics. The fact is that many of these countries problems come form them being overpopulated in the first place. By giving immunisations will only put even more pressure on food, water and other resources.
I would rather the government spent £800m on contraception education, so that countries that can't/won't support their growing population aren't put in to the situation in the first place.
weezer 316
13-Jun-11, 14:54
This is not really solving the problem is it? It's mearly a bit of feel good politics. The fact is that many of these countries problems come form them being overpopulated in the first place. By giving immunisations will only put even more pressure on food, water and other resources.
I would rather the government spent £800m on contraception education, so that countries that can't/won't support their growing population aren't put in to the situation in the first place.
Yes, Malaria is a problem of overcrowding is sparsely populated african villages in the middle of nowhere that have been decimated by severe drought. How you come up with such nonsense is amazing.
I too am amazed someone minus a suit and Eton education is getting money off this government.
On the question of affordability, I'd rather give £800m to suffering children in Africa than workshy adults here, thats for sure.
Yes, Malaria is a problem of overcrowding is sparsely populated african villages in the middle of nowhere that have been decimated by severe drought. How you come up with such nonsense is amazing.
??? And I am amazed at how you got malaria out of what I said! Anyway, you can't immunise against malaria.
But yes, I too would rather the money went to children in africa than the workshy here
weezer 316
13-Jun-11, 15:41
??? And I am amazed at how you got malaria out of what I said! Anyway, you can't immunise against malaria.
But yes, I too would rather the money went to children in africa than the workshy here
You get the point mate, its not over population, its a lack of infrastructure and corruption that's put the entire country in the doldrums that's the issue. You tend to find densely populate places on earth (Delhi and Shanghai spring to mind) in countries with even a basic infrastructure dont have these issues, where as sparsely populated areas where corruption is endemic and infrastructure lacking due to a variety of reasons are affected far worse.
It's interesting to see that the UK has given the single biggest pledge of $1.3 Billion.
The USA, with a GDP of 6.5 times that of the UK, is giving $450 Million. About a third.
This money goes directly to buying vaccines and delivering the nurses to administer them. So no chance of it being hijacked by any corrupt or skint regime. So good one.
NickInTheNorth
13-Jun-11, 16:24
and don't forget that the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is giving around £600 million too, more than the US Government!
John Little
13-Jun-11, 19:19
I guess I am getting too old.
Bill Gates gives a lot of money away. This is a charitable act.
The Prime Minister of our country gives a lot of our money away. This is not a charitable act, for it is not actually his money to give away.
So what is it if not charitable?
It must be political.
And if political, what is its aim?
Am I alone in having reservations about building a dependency culture in developing nations? Not that it needs to be built for it already exists. Even in richer ones - every Brazilian owes the USA $1600 as soon as they are born.
The Prime Minister of a country acts in the interests of that country. In terms of Utilitarianism, he acts for what can be gained from it.
It is certainly not, on the face of it, beneficial to give away large amounts of money that could be spent on jobs, houses, hospitals etc in this country.
So, as Prime Minister, and not a private individual, it follows that he must see some gain for Britain.
What might it be?
Moral high ground?
Propaganda aimed at boosting our credit rating because we have money we can be seen to afford to give away?
Sweeteners aimed at advantageous trade deals?
Like I said - I must be getting old and cynical. People see charity.
I see back scratching and investment in goodwill leading to obligation and dependency.
I guess I am getting too old.
Bill Gates gives a lot of money away. This is a charitable act.
The Prime Minister of our country gives a lot of our money away. This is not a charitable act, for it is not actually his money to give away.
So what is it if not charitable?
It must be political.
And if political, what is its aim?
Am I alone in having reservations about building a dependency culture in developing nations? Not that it needs to be built for it already exists. Even in richer ones - every Brazilian owes the USA $1600 as soon as they are born.
The Prime Minister of a country acts in the interests of that country. In terms of Utilitarianism, he acts for what can be gained from it.
It is certainly not, on the face of it, beneficial to give away large amounts of money that could be spent on jobs, houses, hospitals etc in this country.
So, as Prime Minister, and not a private individual, it follows that he must see some gain for Britain.
What might it be?
Moral high ground?
Propaganda aimed at boosting our credit rating because we have money we can be seen to afford to give away?
Sweeteners aimed at advantageous trade deals?
Like I said - I must be getting old and cynical. People see charity.
I see back scratching and investment in goodwill leading to obligation and dependency.
If you can find a copy of his speech and the QA session (poss. I player) you will hear that he went into all the good reasons, and explains how it is in our best interests.
If you can find a copy of his speech and the QA session (poss. I player) you will hear that he went into all the good reasons, and explains how it is in our best interests.
Aye right!!!!!!!!
John Little
13-Jun-11, 19:32
I've read the reports and seen what he said.
But the difference what politicians say and the truth is all too often akin to the space twixt Mars and Jupiter...
John Little
13-Jun-11, 19:48
A light begins to dawn.
I see that Pfizer are involved in supplying vaccinations which they are donating.
Money for vaccinations will go in large parts to the large drugs companies- where else could it go?
The coalition is trying to persuade said companies to lower the prices of their drugs supplied to the NHS..
Perhaps some joined up politicking going on?
Aye right!!!!!!!!
Interesting post, possibly a bit short on content. Personally I've never liked the idea of standing by while millions of children in Sub Saharan Africa die before the age of five from deseases that we have long since erradicated.
A light begins to dawn.
I see that Pfizer are involved in supplying vaccinations which they are donating.
Money for vaccinations will go in large parts to the large drugs companies- where else could it go?
The coalition is trying to persuade said companies to lower the prices of their drugs supplied to the NHS..
Perhaps some joined up politicking going on?
I don't really care why it is done, as long as it is done. And if you have read or heard what he said, you should understand there are a lot of good political reasons. No need to make up more.
John Little
13-Jun-11, 19:54
Interesting post, possibly a bit short on content. Personally I've never liked the idea of standing by while millions of children in Sub Saharan Africa die before the age of five from deseases that we have long since erradicated.
Has anybody ever liked that idea?
I think you misunderstand where this stems from.
You trust politicians' motives as it says on the tin.
I don't.
John Little
13-Jun-11, 19:56
I don't really care why it is done, as long as it is done. And if you have read or heard what he said, you should understand there are a lot of good political reasons. No need to make up more.
Ah now - if you are saying that the end justifies the means then you open up a whole new can of worms.
That way lies true amorality
Actually - that's a bit like the Matrix...
Has anybody ever liked that idea?
I think you misunderstand where this stems from.
You trust politicians' motives as it says on the tin.
I don't.
In this case, I say so what?
John Little
13-Jun-11, 19:59
In this case, I say so what?
Did I say a word of criticism?
I think Mr.Cameron has done well.....He wants us all to believe that he is a caring Politician and Prime Minister.
In the words of my good Friend Golach.......
"Aye Right"
C3.....:roll:;)
John Little
13-Jun-11, 20:14
You know C3 - I had not thought of that one. Not a bad move.
You know C3 - I had not thought of that one. Not a bad move.
In the words of my good Friend Golach..........
"Aye right"......;)
I believe you John.......:roll:
C3...:cool:
A light begins to dawn.
I see that Pfizer are involved in supplying vaccinations which they are donating.
Money for vaccinations will go in large parts to the large drugs companies- where else could it go?
The coalition is trying to persuade said companies to lower the prices of their drugs supplied to the NHS..
Perhaps some joined up politicking going on?
I was thinking more along the lines of GlaxoSmithKline.
Big UK company and employer. I doubt it's got anything to do with NHS drug supply prices though.
John Little
13-Jun-11, 21:38
Ye-es but I have this at the back of my mind
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Community/Health/article/14245/bma-figure-demands-action-on-national-medicine-shortage.html
It is rather hard to see why Mr Cameron chooses to spend such a large amount of money on developing countries when there seems to be a shortage of drugs in this country - and assertions that patients are dying for lack of them.
I just wondered if there was some sort of quid pro quo going on behind the scenes - you know - like 'You make your drugs available to us at a reasonable price and we will ensure that you make it up by profits elsewhere' sort of thing.
In the words of my good Friend Golach..........
"Aye right"......;)
I believe you John.......:roll:
C3...:cool:
Of course C3, you've seen right through him.
back of beyond
14-Jun-11, 00:12
Im coming on close on 40 and for all my life all i've heard is Africa needs Aid and help of some description or other not to mention other countries, usually of their own making i.e war ditactorships etc etc how much money in the last 30yrs alone and still it hasn't done anything good, smart people please tell me how much has been given?????? Not to mention the amount of legal/illegal refugees living in this country claiming benefits/housing benefits the whole job lot, and we foot the bill ie the idiots that we are -the ones that do work!!!!! It's not his money to be giving away,charity begins at home we need it for example,schools closing/in disrepair, nursary teachers axed, learning axed, and the Caithness favourite judging by winter posts your pot holes in your roads or have you forgotten on that,axing nhs staff,Fort george, Raf leuchers, ambulance/police services or lack of................. where do you stop??????
Im coming on close on 40 and for all my life all i've heard is Africa needs Aid and help of some description or other not to mention other countries, usually of their own making i.e war ditactorships etc etc how much money in the last 30yrs alone and still it hasn't done anything good, smart people please tell me how much has been given?????? Not to mention the amount of legal/illegal refugees living in this country claiming benefits/housing benefits the whole job lot, and we foot the bill ie the idiots that we are -the ones that do work!!!!! It's not his money to be giving away,charity begins at home we need it for example,schools closing/in disrepair, nursary teachers axed, learning axed, and the Caithness favourite judging by winter posts your pot holes in your roads or have you forgotten on that,axing nhs staff,Fort george, Raf leuchers, ambulance/police services or lack of................. where do you stop??????
Oh well, just let 'em die then.
weezer 316
14-Jun-11, 09:20
Im coming on close on 40 and for all my life all i've heard is Africa needs Aid and help of some description or other not to mention other countries, usually of their own making i.e war ditactorships etc etc how much money in the last 30yrs alone and still it hasn't done anything good, smart people please tell me how much has been given?????? Not to mention the amount of legal/illegal refugees living in this country claiming benefits/housing benefits the whole job lot, and we foot the bill ie the idiots that we are -the ones that do work!!!!! It's not his money to be giving away,charity begins at home we need it for example,schools closing/in disrepair, nursary teachers axed, learning axed, and the Caithness favourite judging by winter posts your pot holes in your roads or have you forgotten on that,axing nhs staff,Fort george, Raf leuchers, ambulance/police services or lack of................. where do you stop??????
I suppose then you would back say, Richard branson not paying any tax on the account that the hundreds of millions he has given over the years hasnt eradicated NEDS in this country? Perhaps Wayne rooney? What about the CEO of every large company in the land?
Id bet my bottom dollar you moan about the rich, depsite the fact they finance this country and the services you consume, then moan when us, a very rich nation, give to the poor children dying in a mudhut in Africa. Your juts not prepared to put your hand in your pocket.
And charity doesnt begin at home, it begins with who needs it most.
You arent religious by any chance are you?
I am sure companies such as GlaxoSmithKline , Pfizer will be rubbing their hands with glee, that the thought of profits rolling in now.
I am sure companies such as GlaxoSmithKline , Pfizer will be rubbinng their hands with glee, that the thought of profits rolling in now.
So, that is another positive. It's all good.
So, that is another positive. It's all good.
I am not against the whole idea of this scheme, I just do not believe that our prime minister is the saint that you make him out to be. He is a politician, out for his own welfare, not the welfare of the children in Africa.
weezer 316
14-Jun-11, 10:16
Golach,
Really. You must be quite embittered to think so negatively. Im sure he knew the papers would jump all over him for literally giving £800m away, and that quite a few people would moan about cuts here.
I think its a tremendously brave move, and more than that its us putting our hand in our pocket to help those without, something the nutters on here often attack the tories about, like yourself. Im sure if Salmond had did this Corrie would be signing his praises and pointing everyone to go bask in the sunshine that shines out his a***!
Weezer I am not embittered, I just don't regard at our politicians through rose tinted spectacles.
weezer 316
14-Jun-11, 10:58
Rose tinted specs lol! More looking at it on its merits and without any pre-disposition as to what the intentions of it are.
the nutters on here !
Nutters? On here? Surley some mistake? :eek:
Golach,
something the nutters on here
Been looking in the mirror again Weezle?
Alex doesnt have to give that kind of money away to make himself popular, just look at the last election results again will you?
C3......:roll:;)
weezer 316
14-Jun-11, 12:01
Been looking in the mirror again Weezle?
Alex doesnt have to give that kind of money away to make himself popular, just look at the last election results again will you?
C3......:roll:;)
yet again you seem either incapable or unwilling to read and understand what was said. I clearly said it would be an unpopular move he would be slaughtered for by the papers and cut merchants.
In simple nationalist English hes doing it cause its right, not for votes, which it will prob cost.
Im coming on close on 40 and for all my life all i've heard is Africa needs Aid and help of some description or other not to mention other countries, usually of their own making i.e war ditactorships etc etc how much money in the last 30yrs alone and still it hasn't done anything good, smart people please tell me how much has been given?????? Not to mention the amount of legal/illegal refugees living in this country claiming benefits/housing benefits the whole job lot, and we foot the bill ie the idiots that we are -the ones that do work!!!!! It's not his money to be giving away,charity begins at home we need it for example,schools closing/in disrepair, nursary teachers axed, learning axed, and the Caithness favourite judging by winter posts your pot holes in your roads or have you forgotten on that,axing nhs staff,Fort george, Raf leuchers, ambulance/police services or lack of................. where do you stop??????
Charity begins at home when you do not measure your poverty in the age of your car or the size of your TV screen. You speak of "Africa" as one country, homogenous, with one problem- corrupt politics. You have been reading about Africa for a very long time, but don't seem to have learnt much about it in all that time.
You compare the hardships of our lives in the UK ( in which you mention pot-holes, or being laid off in a country where there is protection and social security and NHS) with this (http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_and_oddities/ultimate_in_unfair.htm) Sorry for the language, but we are all damned privleged.
PS: Please inform us all: what you mean by "illegal refugee"?
back of beyond
14-Jun-11, 21:19
Charity begins at home when you do not measure your poverty in the age of your car or the size of your TV screen. You speak of "Africa" as one country, homogenous, with one problem- corrupt politics. You have been reading about Africa for a very long time, but don't seem to have learnt much about it in all that time.
You compare the hardships of our lives in the UK ( in which you mention pot-holes, or being laid off in a country where there is protection and social security and NHS) with this (http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/odds_and_oddities/ultimate_in_unfair.htm) Sorry for the language, but we are all damned privleged.
PS: Please inform us all: what you mean by "illegal refugee"?
Dont you ever watch the news,or border control programmes etc etc several hundred every day get detected, so how many get in???? I drive a very old car not through choice have a normal tv,i dont seem to have learned much about Africa in all time????!!! If you are all so educated why hasnt anybody come up with how much has been pumped up in Africa in the last 30yrs and also its the the very needy there that some how never seem to get the aid its the ones that are more well off or have a daughter to sell off ......................privledged because we're all paying for it cheers,just a thought maybe you'd like to mention to the homeless people of Scotland,England,wales,Ireland the whole lot who get nothing how privledged are they?????
back of beyond
14-Jun-11, 21:24
[QUOTE=ducati;859731]Oh well, just let 'em die then.[ No thats besides the point id quite happily give the money but its getting repetative,its like groundhog day everyday (have you seen the film!!)
back of beyond
14-Jun-11, 21:30
I suppose then you would back say, Richard branson not paying any tax on the account that the hundreds of millions he has given over the years hasnt eradicated NEDS in this country? Perhaps Wayne rooney? What about the CEO of every large company in the land?
Id bet my bottom dollar you moan about the rich, depsite the fact they finance this country and the services you consume, then moan when us, a very rich nation, give to the poor children dying in a mudhut in Africa. Your juts not prepared to put your hand in your pocket.
And charity doesnt begin at home, it begins with who needs it most.
You arent religious by any chance are you?
No thank you very much im not religious, put my hand in my pocket!!! I served my country thank you very much......................SERVICES - yes that i and we the tax payers help keep going ie the very few services we have left
John Little
14-Jun-11, 21:35
'If you feed the horse enough oats, some will pass through to the road for the sparrows.'"
JK Galbraith.
He didn't believe it. John Maynard Keynes did not believe it.
I don't believe it.
Dont you ever watch the news,or border control programmes etc etc several hundred every day get detected, so how many get in???? I drive a very old car not through choice have a normal tv,i dont seem to have learned much about Africa in all time????!!! If you are all so educated why hasnt anybody come up with how much has been pumped up in Africa in the last 30yrs and also its the the very needy there that some how never seem to get the aid its the ones that are more well off or have a daughter to sell off ......................privledged because we're all paying for it cheers,just a thought maybe you'd like to mention to the homeless people of Scotland,England,wales,Ireland the whole lot who get nothing how privledged are they?????
I don't have much time for reality TV. But there are no illegal refugees. There are people claiming refugee status which are in the process of being evaluated, but until they get a status, they are not illegal. Once they have been denied refugee status, if they abscond before being repatriated, then they become illegal immigrants (not illegal refugees). An illegal immigrant cannot claim benefits. Illegal immigrants tend to keep any contact with any authority to the absolute minimum.
People who choose to live without a home in the UK do so for other reasons than the lack of money (I would think that most have addiction problems). However hard life is there is a social security network that can be used if they wish to. But in applying for help they would have to comply with something that they do not want to. Do you really not see the incongruity of your "pain" at driving a "very old car through no choice of your own" and that of not having the choice to feed yourself and your family because there is simply no food?
If you cannot see the difference between the secure lives we lead, with our social security and national health service to that of people living in abject poverty (be it in an African nation or other third world countries), then nothing I or anyone has to say that will change that.
weezer 316
15-Jun-11, 10:17
Well said _Ju_
Mrs Bucket
15-Jun-11, 11:46
Funny how money can be found for wars or patting themselves on the back. That money should be going to our own poor e.g. senior citzens who are facing a bleak winter unless they get a huge increase to pay food and fuel bills.
back of beyond
15-Jun-11, 13:49
Well said that there Mrs Bucket..............as for Ju...............i would like you to say that there isn't a such thing as illegal immigrants to people in other parts of the Uk. I dont watch reality tv mysef more of a documentary programme person,i managed to watch one last week about poor children living in poverty throughout the Uk, it was very heartbreaking to watch the poor conditions they had to live in. As for the homeless yes i would have once said that they were homeless due to their own addictions etc etc,but nowadays people/families/elderly are becoming homeless due to more repossessions and high cost of living etc etc............look at the elderly folk form the Southern Cross care homes suppose thats through choice that they will be homeless. So yes well done to David Cameron for pledging to give money away that i didnt think the country had.....................Raigmore and Caithness maternity units are closing down beds to save money becasue the government dont have it to keep them open........................axing nursary teachers/primary teachers/college lecturers to save money because the government dont have it..............what will happen to the Royal Mail??? the list is endless, so, yes for once i think charity should begin at home................i daren't think of what will be for the next generation of children. As for social security, i had to depend on that once for 2wks and all i was entitled to was £84.90 minus the expenses of having a wife and children,food and bills it wouldnt have went very far!!!!!
Well said that there Mrs Bucket..............as for Ju...............i would like you to say that there isn't a such thing as illegal immigrants to people in other parts of the Uk. I dont watch reality tv mysef more of a documentary programme person,i managed to watch one last week about poor children living in poverty throughout the Uk, it was very heartbreaking to watch the poor conditions they had to live in. As for the homeless yes i would have once said that they were homeless due to their own addictions etc etc,but nowadays people/families/elderly are becoming homeless due to more repossessions and high cost of living etc etc............look at the elderly folk form the Southern Cross care homes suppose thats through choice that they will be homeless. So yes well done to David Cameron for pledging to give money away that i didnt think the country had.....................Raigmore and Caithness maternity units are closing down beds to save money becasue the government dont have it to keep them open........................axing nursary teachers/primary teachers/college lecturers to save money because the government dont have it..............what will happen to the Royal Mail??? the list is endless, so, yes for once i think charity should begin at home................i daren't think of what will be for the next generation of children. As for social security, i had to depend on that once for 2wks and all i was entitled to was £84.90 minus the expenses of having a wife and children,food and bills it wouldnt have went very far!!!!!
Sorry, don't understand most of this. ( If you try not to read diagonally, you will read that I said there is no such thing as an illegal refugee and that illegal immigrants are not entitled to benefits)
As for the £84.90, it could have been worse. It could have been nothing at all.
Mrs Bucket, wars are the most lucrative business generators around. That is why money can always be found for wars.
Mrs Bucket
15-Jun-11, 17:15
lucrative that says it all
fifi trixibelle
16-Jun-11, 18:45
Lol should have gone to specsavers
John Little
16-Jun-11, 19:01
It appears that we are about to bale out Greece...
It appears that we are about to bale out Greece...
....again, what has that to do with the thread? :D
Why not offer recently qualified teachers who can't get jobs voluntary placements in the Third World with a secure job offer when they return?
That would help educate Third World children- and do so much more thanhandouts
John Little
17-Jun-11, 06:39
....again, what has that to do with the thread? :D
Something to do with DC handing out our cash perhaps?
Something to do with DC handing out our cash perhaps?
But it would not matter if Alex Salmond or Freddie Mercury were the PM, we would still have these obligations.
weezer 316
17-Jun-11, 10:05
Why not offer recently qualified teachers who can't get jobs voluntary placements in the Third World with a secure job offer when they return?
That would help educate Third World children- and do so much more thanhandouts
A noble idea......ahem
There are teachers in the 3rd world, just a total lack of infrastructure to teach with.
Wouldnt that be taking locals jobs similar to what we complain about here?
Where the hell is this job here gonna just appear from?
Who is gonna pay teachers wages in africa? Chad govt cant afford anything even approaching a teachers salary.
John Little
17-Jun-11, 15:39
But it would not matter if Alex Salmond or Freddie Mercury were the PM, we would still have these obligations.
Well at least one of those is dead...
And I wholly disagree that we have obligations. They are theoretical, only applying if the EU decides to bail out Greece. Any bailout should not be done by the EU but by countries in the Euro zone. We face deep cuts to services, rising unemployment and rising prices. To bail out another currency would be absurd. If we have money to spare to keep Greeks employed then we have money to spare to keep British people employed. So I trust that Camerob finds his government not in favour of giving our cash to Greece. (And that's not a typo)
"A fresh financial bail-out for Greece should only involve countries which have joined the single currency, Government officials said today.
The UK was not involved in the original bail-out for Greece last year, which was funded via bilateral loans within the single currency area.
Germany and France have already signalled there is no reason for London to pay a share of any repeat bail-out in the face of a worsening Greek economic crisis."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-should-not-join-greek-bailout-2298979.html
Well at least one of those is dead...
And I wholly disagree that we have obligations. They are theoretical, only applying if the EU decides to bail out Greece. Any bailout should not be done by the EU but by countries in the Euro zone. We face deep cuts to services, rising unemployment and rising prices. To bail out another currency would be absurd. If we have money to spare to keep Greeks employed then we have money to spare to keep British people employed. So I trust that Camerob finds his government not in favour of giving our cash to Greece. (And that's not a typo)
"A fresh financial bail-out for Greece should only involve countries which have joined the single currency, Government officials said today.
The UK was not involved in the original bail-out for Greece last year, which was funded via bilateral loans within the single currency area.
Germany and France have already signalled there is no reason for London to pay a share of any repeat bail-out in the face of a worsening Greek economic crisis."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-should-not-join-greek-bailout-2298979.html
Oh, right, good :lol:
Why not offer recently qualified teachers who can't get jobs voluntary placements in the Third World with a secure job offer when they return?
That would help educate Third World children- and do so much more thanhandouts
That is a much more constructive idea than just handing over money, the teachers are giving their service free so no money involved and the money saved could help our own education system by providing more teachers with smaller class sizes.
And another thing. Why am I subsidising public worker's pensions when I am struggling to put enough in my own?:mad:
John Little
17-Jun-11, 16:11
And another thing. Why am I subsidising public worker's pensions when I am struggling to put enough in my own?:mad:
In what way are you subsidising them? That's very nice of you!
In what way are you subsidising them? That's very nice of you!
Tax payers contribute to PS workers pensions, hence the reform underway at the moment.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=news&cd=1&ved=0CCwQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citywire.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Ftrea sury-minister-confronts-unions-over-public-sector-pension-reform%2Fa501069%3Fref%3Dcitywire-money-latest-news-list&rct=j&q=public service pension reform&tbm=nws&ei=OHv7TYryKJOp8QPK4KiqCQ&usg=AFQjCNEKN0HiGKMrVNW4_qFyFKY_Ungtiw
Blimey, that's a long link.
John Little
17-Jun-11, 17:15
Tax payers contribute to PS workers pensions, hence the reform underway at the moment.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=news&cd=1&ved=0CCwQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citywire.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Ftrea sury-minister-confronts-unions-over-public-sector-pension-reform%2Fa501069%3Fref%3Dcitywire-money-latest-news-list&rct=j&q=public service pension reform&tbm=nws&ei=OHv7TYryKJOp8QPK4KiqCQ&usg=AFQjCNEKN0HiGKMrVNW4_qFyFKY_Ungtiw
Blimey, that's a long link.
That link does not exemplify what you are saying - it merely says that public sector workers should pay more towards their pensions, which is probably true.
The thing about contributions from tax is that it is a necessary feature of the society in which we live and from which we benefit.
You pay tax - but so do public sector workers. Which is handy because it means that collective action becomes possible and collectivism has many benefits. Because everybody, including PS workers pay tax, Mr Ducati gets to go the doctor without paying a fee. If in an accident his treatment is free. His medicines are subsidised. Should he be gender dysphoric then the state will pay for his reassignment to her. If he cannot work he gets social security.
Swings and roundabout Duke - I would not knock too hard at the foundations of a system from which you may gain so much potential benefit.
Unless of course you would rather sweep it all away and pay for everything.
But then you'd be a Tory instead of a Conservative.
You're too nice to be a Tory.
That link does not exemplify what you are saying - it merely says that public sector workers should pay more towards their pensions, which is probably true.
The thing about contributions from tax is that it is a necessary feature of the society in which we live and from which we benefit.
You pay tax - but so do public sector workers. Which is handy because it means that collective action becomes possible and collectivism has many benefits. Because everybody, including PS workers pay tax, Mr Ducati gets to go the doctor without paying a fee. If in an accident his treatment is free. His medicines are subsidised. Should he be gender dysphoric then the state will pay for his reassignment to her. If he cannot work he gets social security.
Swings and roundabout Duke - I would not knock too hard at the foundations of a system from which you may gain so much potential benefit.
Unless of course you would rather sweep it all away and pay for everything.
But then you'd be a Tory instead of a Conservative.
You're too nice to be a Tory.
Yes but, no one (taxpayer) is contributing to my pension. The nearest is a small tax break on the contributions but that is just a bribe so I am not such a drain in my old age. Some civil servants receive up to 14% from the taxpayer. And don't ask me to link that, it was being discussed as part of the discussion of Danny's speech as if it was common knowledge.
weezer 316
17-Jun-11, 17:31
That is a much more constructive idea than just handing over money, the teachers are giving their service free so no money involved and the money saved could help our own education system by providing more teachers with smaller class sizes.
Oh, thats nice kells, real nice.
Im at a loss. I cannot for the life of me see how you can see such a situation being "free". Unless they are super teachers who require no payment/food/shelter of any kind and who are willing to work without pay in a remote, impoverished country.
Ludicrous suggestion. Utterly moronic. Infact I would go as far as to say just keep schum.
John Little
17-Jun-11, 17:43
Yes but, no one (taxpayer) is contributing to my pension. The nearest is a small tax break on the contributions but that is just a bribe so I am not such a drain in my old age. Some civil servants receive up to 14% from the taxpayer. And don't ask me to link that, it was being discussed as part of the discussion of Danny's speech as if it was common knowledge.
Well that's something to do with free will. I assume that you wanted to do what you do and chose your own career? And your own pension provision.
Public sector workers do not have a choice. Teachers for example must contribute to the Teacher's superannuation scheme if they work in a state school. It is compulsory and there is no opt out. Mrs Thatcher tried that and it bombed- everyone who did opt out in the late 80s lost heavily. If you worked in the public sector it would be the same for you. And you think all that money gets invested? Or is it used as another pot by the Treasury?
The taxpayer may not be contributing to your personal pension, but you will get a non contributory state pension;http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsandretirementplanning/StatePension/Basicstatepension/DG_10014671
It ain't the full whack which you get through contributions, but it's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
You get enough benefits from your tax to allay any grouses you may have.
Don't miss out now!!
Yes but, no one (taxpayer) is contributing to my pension.
I understand your point.
But many people get pension contributions from their employers in the private sector, why shouldn't they in the public sector?
Government agencies have been promising final salary pensions to public sector workers for years, and continue to do so, without actually making much in the way of investments to cover them. "We'll deal with it when the time comes" seems to be the view, which makes it easier to keep the population happy and win elections.
I think the time has come where public sector workers should expect a pension on a par with those in the private sector. Something along the lines of 5% employer contribution, 5-15% employee contribution, then a pension at the end of their working life based on their investment.
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