View Full Version : Osama Bin Laden Dead!
im sure most of you have heard the news, but wow.. what do you think about this?
its a bit anti-climatic for me..
i really dont know how to feel.
in some way it feels justified and i kinda want to say.. YES FINALLY!
in other ways i just want to shake my head and try to figure out how it has come to all this.
they are warning Americans to be careful traveling, as they are concerned for a retaliatory attack,
and i cant help but wonder.. when will it all end.
are we ever going to have a semblance of peace?
will his death have any influence on getting our troops back home, or will the war in Afghanistan just carry on...
its a vicious circle.. and i just cant see an end to it.
The war will continue.
You can kill the leader, but you can't kill an ideology. He in now a martyr. If anything, this will lead to an increase in anti-western sentiment.
He has about 100 look alikes - how do they know it is actually him?
A bit convenient piece of news after ghadafi's son was killed and there's been uproar about the killing of civilians. A diversion methinks...
More a comment about the mechanics of the raid, (it was inevitable that they would get him one day).
Apparently a helicopter suffered a mechanical failure so the troops blew it up to stop it falling into enemy hands. In Pakistan? Who were the enemy? :confused
Apart from this I, recon it would have been a relatively cheap operation.
He has about 100 look alikes - how do they know it is actually him?
A bit convenient piece of news after ghadafi's son was killed and there's been uproar about the killing of civilians. A diversion methinks...
DNA, they have collected samples of many family members over the years.
Actually, I think it may be a ruse, the only story that could knock the royal wedding out of the news!
I believe that Donald Trump has asked for his death certificate as confirmation.
DNA, they have collected samples of many family members over the years.
Ah but they have 'buried' him at sea but they have not yet announced that they have taken a sample from the body - it could be anyone's body...
Get ready for the backlash, I can see yet again a number of planes being flown into skyscrapers!!....
C3....:(
Ah but they have 'buried' him at sea
The conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with that one.
Amy-Winehouse
02-May-11, 10:04
Elton John is said to be shocked the news, he has already written a tribute song to Osama. It's called sandals in the bin.
Oldies are the best ones eh :)
Elgin John is said to be shocked the news, he has already written a tribute song to Osama. It's called sandals in the bin.
Oldies are the best ones eh :)
Elton will be suing for copyright ;)
Get ready for the backlash, I can see yet again a number of planes being flown into skyscrapers!!....
C3....:(
This is what worries me too Corrie 3. I can't see Osama's buddies sitting back and watching all these Americans celebrating without spoiling their party, big style.
The world is not a safer place with the death of Bin Laden, things are going to get very ugly, and countless more innocent people are going to die as a result of it :(
ShelleyCowie
02-May-11, 10:55
It may be the end of Bin Laden, but the beginning of an outbreak of hell. They are going to retalliate, and personally i think its going to be another disaster. Most would say good news he is dead, i say its just another reason for bombs to go off. :(
I believe that Donald Trump has asked for his death certificate as confirmation.
It's just one big ruse, I have it on good authority Osama is in hiding still. Last seen in Vegas with Elvis.
Apparently a helicopter suffered a mechanical failure so the troops blew it up to stop it falling into enemy hands.
No. They did this mission alone apparently so they didn't have any allies to shoot at so most probably ended up shooting at themselves as well for good measure.
Ah but they have 'buried' him at sea but they have not yet announced that they have taken a sample from the body - it could be anyone's body...
It'll be like French Foreign Legion in Algeria, cut the head off for identification (now DNA) and maybe the hands for prints - then shove the rest of it overboard; no shrine that way...
Some celebrating...more fighting.... and oil prices will rise.
Hope they weighed the body bag down enough so he doesnt wash up somewhere.
Hope he meets his 22 virgins on his way
OBL is now a martyr, how long before the revenge attacks and we all feel the repercussions of this revenge.
If only it meant the end of trouble in the Middle East, he is just one of the many to die.
Hope our service personnel in Afghan do not suffer any repercussions and the service personnel preparing for Libya troubles do not have to deal with a backlash either, they have enough to contend with.
Our troops at home will be on alert for any type of revenge attacks - they are always on alert but will be double checking everything/body now.
At least they did not manage to disrupt Fridays displays of our troops and head folk from around the world.
All this stuff about revenge attacks, it was/is going to happen anyway, does anyone really believe bin laden was in the compound playing scrabble?.. of course it will continue, as has been mentioned the ideology still remains - the days are long gone when the king was dispatched and the army collapsed
Hope they smeared him with bacon rind before throwing him in the sea.
Hope they smeared him with bacon rind before throwing him in the sea.
I think this post is uncalled for, and racist also [disgust]
Walter Ego
02-May-11, 13:01
There may be some backlash to this killing, but the killing would be going on anyway. If it wasn't the death of OBL it would be some other reason.
Now, who's going to be first to criticise a US killing on Pakistani sovereign turf.....
...I can feel a gargatuan moral struggle going on with at least one poster on here.
Will he agree with the killing, thus going aginst his own previously held position...or will he stick to his guns? Genuinely interested.
Come on, Anfs..what's your take on all of this?
It looks like Pakistan may have allowed the helicopters to take off from Pakistan, but doubt if they knew 'exactly' what they were doing.. but we must not forget that bin laden killed many Muslims and does in no way represent them, expect post incident tacit approval from Zardari..
And..Palestinian militant group Hamas have condemned the killing of Bin Laden, Reuters reports, calling it the "assassination" of an "Arab holy warrior".
I think this post is uncalled for, and racist also [disgust]
Whats racist about it?
Anyway, didnt realise they took the bins out on a bank holiday.
It looks like Pakistan may have allowed the helicopters to take off from Pakistan, but doubt if they knew 'exactly' what they were doing.. but we must not forget that bin laden killed many Muslims and does in no way represent them, expect post incident tacit approval from Zardari..
And..Palestinian militant group Hamas have condemned the killing of Bin Laden, Reuters reports, calling it the "assassination" of an "Arab holy warrior".
He will be "holy" now. The SEALs dont mess about.
Come on, Anfs..what's your take on all of this?
My stance remains unchanged. I am against the unnecessary killing of any form of life, whether it be an American killed in the 2001 World Trade Centre attacks, or the killing of innocent civilians in Afghanistan & Pakistan by NATO bombs.
If the death of Bin Laden meant that there was an end to the war between Islam and the West, then yes I would support it. However, his death will only act as a catalyst for more violence and more deaths on all sides of this continuing conflict
I am quite sure that al-Qaeda has had plans for the inevitable demise of their leader in place for a number of years now, so I do not think much will change.
Walter Ego
02-May-11, 17:05
My stance remains unchanged. I am against the unnecessary killing of any form of life, whether it be an American killed in the 2001 World Trade Centre attacks, or the killing of innocent civilians in Afghanistan & Pakistan by NATO bombs.
If the death of Bin Laden meant that there was an end to the war between Islam and the West, then yes I would support it. However, his death will only act as a catalyst for more violence and more deaths on all sides of this continuing conflict
I am quite sure that al-Qaeda has had plans for the inevitable demise of their leader in place for a number of years now, so I do not think much will change.
A very astute stance and I agree with you.
The only difference of opinion I have with you is that there was no other course of action but to eradicate OBM - the violence will continue with or without him, true. But it would appear that negotiation is not an option with A-Q and OBM as a captive would result in hostage taking on an unprecedented scale. No other option but execution as far as the uS is concerned.
.........there was no other course of action but to eradicate OBM.........
I'd agree with that.
Regardless of his recent activity, his actions in the past meant he had to be dealt with.
I don't like it, and don't know if I believe it. On one hand, happy news for the families who have been affected by his actions. On the other hand, I feel things may get even worse when his buddies see all the 'celebrations'.
The conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day with that one.
Yup, how convenient to bury him so far out at sea where nobody will find him. And look at all the happy celebrations praising Obama, funny coincidence how close to election time it is as well.
But in fairness, praise to Obama for at least putting Americans minds at ease.
porshiepoo
02-May-11, 18:35
All those people rejoicing in the USA would have been the ideal place for a suicide bomber to turn up!
Obama et al make these decisions to sanction the murder of the likes of OBL safe in the knowledge that he has the full might of American security to protect him from whatever revenge attacks may be planned. He orders the murder in the name of the American people against terror but fails to acknowledge the terror his actions will unleash on those innocent people.
OBL is now a martyr and many terror attacks will now be carried out in his name. Yes attacks were probably inevitable anyway but I fear we may now see a whole new meaning to the word. For every OBL that is killed a hundred others will be willing to rise up and die in his name.
I understand the need to show that we will not tolerate terrorist attacks and I also understand that capturing him alive was never going to be the outcome but I sometimes wonder what the difference is between Obama and Osama (except the second letter). Both are willing to kill for what they believe is right, both are willing to kill in retaliation. The only difference I can see is that westerners believe Obama is right and just, Muslims believe Osama is right and just. Yes they may go around things in different ways but the outcome is the same - thousands of innocent people dead.
Phoebus_Apollo
02-May-11, 18:48
Looks to me like WW3 is on the horizon - the Islamic "state" vs the Western world - Fascist Theocracy anybody??:roll:
All those people rejoicing in the USA would have been the ideal place for a suicide bomber to turn up!
Obama et al make these decisions to sanction the murder of the likes of OBL safe in the knowledge that he has the full might of American security to protect him from whatever revenge attacks may be planned. He orders the murder in the name of the American people against terror but fails to acknowledge the terror his actions will unleash on those innocent people.
OBL is now a martyr and many terror attacks will now be carried out in his name. Yes attacks were probably inevitable anyway but I fear we may now see a whole new meaning to the word. For every OBL that is killed a hundred others will be willing to rise up and die in his name.
I understand the need to show that we will not tolerate terrorist attacks and I also understand that capturing him alive was never going to be the outcome but I sometimes wonder what the difference is between Obama and Osama (except the second letter). Both are willing to kill for what they believe is right, both are willing to kill in retaliation. The only difference I can see is that westerners believe Obama is right and just, Muslims believe Osama is right and just. Yes they may go around things in different ways but the outcome is the same - thousands of innocent people dead.
You could not be more wrong..
The Council on American-Islamic Relations issued a statement:
We join our fellow citizens in welcoming the announcement that Osama bin Laden has been eliminated as a threat to our nation and the world through the actions of American military personnel. As we have stated repeatedly since the 9/11 terror attacks, bin Laden never represented Muslims or Islam. In fact, in addition to the killing of thousands of Americans, he and Al Qaeda caused the deaths of countless Muslims worldwide. We also reiterate President Obama’s clear statement tonight that the United States is not at war with Islam.
Luckily, the "Caliphate in Waiting", or Umma, is impossible because of the radical and insurmountable differences between the various fundamentalist factions. As Martin Amis called them, these "omnicidal nullities" will spend far too much of their limited time fighting the bejasus out of each other to pose a genuine threat while Middle East oil lasts - and of course, as long as we do our best to keep them geographically contained in their own allegedly "superior" countries. After that, when they've run out of oil/money, we'll leave them to work out which version of their faith was the right one after all. And after that "the lone and level sands stretch far away".
There will be strikes on our way of life. Eventually, one big enough to go after them without compunction or limitation. But not WW3.
oldmarine
02-May-11, 19:47
Bin Laden is dead. I read on other news that he was done in by American Navy Seals. Don't expect this to end the terrorism problems. The Islamic Jihadists are dedicated to converting the world to their faith. They won't rest until all Christians, Jews and non-Jihadist believers are converted or dead.
It is a pity he didn't survive to face trial, he deserved to die and celebrating it doesn't sit very well with me. It isn't very noble of us.
Evidently it's OK to take out the Bins on a Bank Holiday in Pakistan.....
porshiepoo
02-May-11, 22:24
You could not be more wrong..
The Council on American-Islamic Relations issued a statement:
We join our fellow citizens in welcoming the announcement that Osama bin Laden has been eliminated as a threat to our nation and the world through the actions of American military personnel. As we have stated repeatedly since the 9/11 terror attacks, bin Laden never represented Muslims or Islam. In fact, in addition to the killing of thousands of Americans, he and Al Qaeda caused the deaths of countless Muslims worldwide. We also reiterate President Obama’s clear statement tonight that the United States is not at war with Islam.
Ah but would this be the same CAIR which many Americans believe the founders of which are Hamas operatives who want to implement Sharia law in the USA?
President Obama may not be at war with Islam but there are many Islams at war with him and as such innocent people have been and will be killed in these terror attacks.
I'm not suggesting that we turn the other cheek when it comes to the handling of these attacks but I do find it quite disconcerting that a civilised person in power can openly sanction the murder of another person. I also find rejoicing in his death quite distasteful purely because it makes me wonder if those scenes are reminiscent of the rejoicing OBL and his ilk would have been doing after their very successful 9/11 attack.
I would like to believe that we westerners are not as evil as al Qaeda, that we would not rejoice in the murder of another person based on religion or retaliation. Sadly our actions seem to prove otherwise, we are becoming them.
His death may bring a sigh of relief to some, a sense of closure to others and a hint of 'got ya' from the Obama administration but do we need to rejoice it? Drink to it? Or should we maybe consider what the repercussions of it will be?
Looks to me like WW3 is on the horizon - the Islamic "state" vs the Western world - Fascist Theocracy anybody??:roll:
I doubt it.
But I do understand why many Arabs could develop a bad taste in their mouth because of western actions.
John Little
03-May-11, 06:46
Has justice been served?
Has anyone read 1984?
Bin Laden may be dead but there's sure soon to be someone equally as bad to take his place! Why dispose of his body so quickly?, why is there no footage for the supposed burial at sea?, I personally would want proof of his death. As for rejoicing in the murder of another human being AND his wife, it's just wrong, he should have been captured alive and brought to trial.
Personally I don't even believe Bin Laden's terrorists were to blame for the 9/11 tragedy... I'm very sceptical indeed, although I do recognise he is responsible for other atrocities.
http://newsone.com/newsone-original/samalesh/the-11-most-compelling-911-conspiracy-theories/
I can not celebrate the death of another human being, I don't care who it is. I obviously don't think that Osama was a good person but the attitude and nature with which many people are dealing with the news makes me severely uncomfortable.
"I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine
Also this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyt7yfSKbts#t=6m48s seems rather appropriate.
".. he should have been captured alive and brought to trial.."
A very tricky one.
If say the US had captured him alive, then how many Western hostages would have been taken (and killed) by al Qaeda to use as a bargaining tool for his release?
A very tricky one.
If say the US had captured him alive, then how many Western hostages would have been taken (and killed) by al Qaeda to use as a bargaining tool for his release?
I agree with the second bit. I think his death, however it happened, was the only option.
I understand the reasons for a quick burial, and why it was chosen at sea, but still can't understand why there is/was no footage taken. Something stinks.
tonkatojo
03-May-11, 12:19
I bet he wished he hadn't filled in that census form. :eek:
Whats racist about it?
I dont see much in the way of racism in the post.
I do see a great dollop of bigotry though!
Anyhow the world is less of one bad guy, unfortunately there anre many more from all walks of life ready to take his place.
weezer 316
03-May-11, 15:20
Bin Laden may be dead but there's sure soon to be someone equally as bad to take his place! Why dispose of his body so quickly?, why is there no footage for the supposed burial at sea?, I personally would want proof of his death. As for rejoicing in the murder of another human being AND his wife, it's just wrong, he should have been captured alive and brought to trial.
Personally I don't even believe Bin Laden's terrorists were to blame for the 9/11 tragedy... I'm very sceptical indeed, although I do recognise he is responsible for other atrocities.
http://newsone.com/newsone-original/samalesh/the-11-most-compelling-911-conspiracy-theories/
I suppose you think Elvis is still going too? Mind if I ask who was responsible then? And why would Bin laden admit responsibility (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html)
He deserved to die. 9/11, Embassy bombings, Riyadh car bomb, USS Cole bombing and Bali to name but a few. Man was a dinosaur like alot of people in the middle east. IM sure my views on the religions that underpin such madness are well known, so ill just finish by saying what the hell were the pakistani's playing at!
I know what fans of conspiracies some orgers are, so I would like to put forward in my own humble way, a very credible one;
Osama wasn't in Pakistan at the time of the Navy Seals raid, he was in fact relaxing in London after presiding over the wedding of Kate and wotsisface, who, as everyone in the know, knows, are actually Muslims, not as is commonly accepted, Greek Orthodox.
The unfortunates killed in Pakistan in the raid, were in fact patsies put there by George Bush, to confuse and humiliate the Obama regime, and were actually very well known American icons known to us as Popeye and his wife Olive Oil.
The great rush to bury the body at sea will now become clear as it will be obvious to any medically minded person that the body would have existed largely on a diet of spinach. Thereby giving the gig away.
Please feel free to add flesh and detail to this brief outline.
I suppose you think Elvis is still going too? Mind if I ask who was responsible then? And why would Bin laden admit responsibility (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html)
It's obvious that Reptile Alien Central Command called him home.
dont forget that donald trump would have been part of the cover up.. or is that whos at the gates asking for proof of id.. via a birth certificate to prove that he is really osama , then when that did come thru the death cert. just to be on the safe side
I know what fans of conspiracies some orgers are, so I would like to put forward in my own humble way, a very credible one;
Osama wasn't in Pakistan at the time of the Navy Seals raid, he was in fact relaxing in London after presiding over the wedding of Kate and wotsisface, who, as everyone in the know, knows, are actually Muslims, not as is commonly accepted, Greek Orthodox.
The unfortunates killed in Pakistan in the raid, were in fact patsies put there by George Bush, to confuse and humiliate the Obama regime, and were actually very well known American icons known to us as Popeye and his wife Olive Oil.
The great rush to bury the body at sea will now become clear as it will be obvious to any medically minded person that the body would have existed largely on a diet of spinach. Thereby giving the gig away.
Please feel free to add flesh and detail to this brief outline.
Actually............
The CIA were the "unknown hackers" who hacked into the playstation network.
They found a call of duty player with the username [OBL]ALQUAEDA with a particular preference for playing the desert level in Modern Warfare 2.
To US military intelligence, it all became clear.
The SEALs were mobilised, and after a one way firefight involving 80 crack troops and 16000 rounds of ammunition, a 12 year old spotty schoolboy was killed in front of his playstation in Pakistan. He died playing his favourite game (albeit in single player campaign mode as the network was still down).
Realising their mistake, (the body didn't have a beard, was 4 foot tall and had very soft hands) OBAMA (not OSAMA - he's still in a cave somewhere - without a phone) ordered the body be dumped in the sea.
"Those folks won't ever know" said the president.
I saw it on facebook so it must be true.
Obama says killing Ben Laden was American justice.
But this wasn't justice.
It was revenge.
I dont think we should be confusing the two.
Walter Ego
03-May-11, 16:55
Obama says killing Ben Laden was American justice.
But this wasn't justice.
It was revenge.
I dont think we should be confusing the two.
Aren't all punitive acts in the name of 'justice' really all acts of revenge wrapped up in a nice, tidy frame?
For example: Man gets 15 years for rape and it is called 'justice', it could be argued that a line of negotiation and education should be taken to prevent recidivism, not a mainly punitive act. The punishment is there to satisfy the victims just as much as it is to punishthe aggressor - and isn't that 'revenge'?. So the death of OBL could be argued as being both in equal measures.
Germany bombed our cities - we bombed theirs...justice or revenge? There's no difference at all.....
Obama says killing Ben Laden was American justice.
But this wasn't justice.
It was revenge.
I dont think we should be confusing the two.
Whats wrong with justifiable revenge? Rich
Obama says killing Ben Laden was American justice.
But this wasn't justice.
It was revenge.
I dont think we should be confusing the two.
These things are often one and the same.
Actually............
What really happened was: This was just a routine visit from the Census enforcement team (apparently they hadn't sent theirs back). All was going well until the chopper driver accidentally switched off the silent flight mode and someone started twittering about the noise. Elvis (who was the co-pilot) tried to re-engage the silent flight mode but erroneously set the self destruct timer.
Rather than let it get out that Elvis is in fact the alien found at Roswell, now employed as the head of census enforcement (based in Portgower BTW) THEY came up with this clever wheeze about Obama, or Osama, whichever. To divert attention from the forged birth certificate and that Osama, or is it Obama? Whichever, is actually from Stornoway and is the secret twin of a certain Mr Trump.
I know that's the truth 'cos it's the story I've just filed with the Sunday Sport.
essex boy
03-May-11, 19:52
The thing that worries me is the Americans looked more like 'fanatics' in their celibrations than Bin Laden's supporters!
2little2late
03-May-11, 20:23
And I never even knew you could take the BIN's out on a weekend.
There is a great deal wrong with revenge.
In the bad old days - Viking times - there were ferocious feuds going on over greivances that were often too ancient even to remember. Never mind the Vikings, how about the Hatfields and the McCoys of West Virginia? (By the way the Hatfields and McCoys have a great web site. I recommend it.)
So the concept behind justice is that the cause of the greivance should be removed from the hands of the involved parties.
Then a parliament of some sort is summonsed to pass justice on the perpetrators. The beauty of this is that the burden of seeking vengeance does not fall on the immediate families of the victims but upon society as a whole.
Is that a long way from Obama's remarks about binLaden? I think not.
"American" justice is a bloody handed affair...
Walter Ego
03-May-11, 20:58
.........The beauty of this is that the burden of seeking vengeance does not fall on the immediate families of the victims but upon society as a whole.......
I'd look up the meaning of vengeance if I were you...QED.....
Mystical Potato Head
03-May-11, 21:01
The one thing they cant take away from him and thats his hide and seek World Record
Tubthumper
03-May-11, 21:30
Osama Bin Laden
Will terror no more
He hid behind wife
As they kicked down his door
Or so goes the story
It broke as they kicked ‘er
But history just like
The spoils go to victor
For ten years he led them
A merry old dance
But the Seals tracked him downwards
In luck circumstance
They climbed up his wall
After jumping the moat
‘Twas mistake by his Courier
Not by his Groat
A shot in the napper
The story is done
Tiny battle was fought
But has war been now won?
One man’s freedom fighter
Is terrorist scum
It depends who’s defining
From where money’s come
Goodbye to Osama
A privileged swine
Who called for mass murder
For purpose divine
Not purpose divine but
For fair distribution
Of chance folk are shouting
For just revolution
Osama Bin Laden
You’ve shuffled off coil
But what was your purpose
For what did you toil
As bogey-man bearded
For Bush dynasty?
I suppose it is karma
You did die nasty
weezer 316
03-May-11, 22:30
There is a great deal wrong with revenge.
In the bad old days - Viking times - there were ferocious feuds going on over greivances that were often too ancient even to remember. Never mind the Vikings, how about the Hatfields and the McCoys of West Virginia? (By the way the Hatfields and McCoys have a great web site. I recommend it.)
So the concept behind justice is that the cause of the greivance should be removed from the hands of the involved parties.
Then a parliament of some sort is summonsed to pass justice on the perpetrators. The beauty of this is that the burden of seeking vengeance does not fall on the immediate families of the victims but upon society as a whole.
Is that a long way from Obama's remarks about binLaden? I think not.
"American" justice is a bloody handed affair...
Oh fo flips sake. Who on earth bar the yanks should have got him then? Bare in mind he killed 3000+ on 9/11, hundreds more in east africa, and has devoted most of his effort since 1991 to targetting americans. Maybe Iceland perhaps?
The man deserved to die. He is a mass murderer of innocent people for no reason other than religious madness, which is insanity wrapped in a delusion within paranoia. If we had been quicker to get to him, less blood overall would have been spilled.
There is a great deal wrong with revenge.
In the bad old days - Viking times - there were ferocious feuds going on over greivances that were often too ancient even to remember. Never mind the Vikings, how about the Hatfields and the McCoys of West Virginia? ...
rich you bring up the Viking Times, then introduce a couple of American tribes, what about nearer at home? According to Castlegreen,'E Sitherlands they focht 'e Gunns. 'E Gunns they focht the Sinclairs. 'E Sinclairs focht 'e wild Mackays. an the polis focht 'e Tinklers. And this was done to keep 'e owld tradeetions [lol]
neilsermk1
03-May-11, 22:50
The one thing they cant take away from him and thats his hide and seek World Record
Sorry mate that is still held by Lord Lucan
Oh well done Tubthumper
Your poetry's great
You now wear the Northern Crown -
Scots' Laureate
But 'ware with this triumph
Let no fireworks woosh
Lest you fall into
The Laureate Bush!
Turns out the guy was unarmed andd didnt use his wife as a shield then eh!
Begs the question why was he assassinated and not brought to trial?
Turns out the guy was unarmed andd didnt use his wife as a shield then eh!
Begs the question why was he assassinated and not brought to trial?
He was reaching for a can of spinach :eek:
Turns out the guy was unarmed andd didnt use his wife as a shield then eh!
Begs the question why was he assassinated and not brought to trial?
Where you there mi16? Somehow I do not think you are a USN Seal [lol]
John Little
04-May-11, 10:27
From Wikipedia- some names have been changed...
"Osama bin Laden is a character (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character) in George Orwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell)'s classic dystopian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia) novel Nineteen Eighty-Four (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four). He is the number one enemy of the people according to Big Brother (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(Nineteen_Eighty-Four)) and the Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingsoc), who heads a mysterious and possibly fictitious anti-party organization called The Brotherhood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brotherhood_(Nineteen_Eighty-Four)). Despite being a key part of the story, he is only actually seen and heard on telescreen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen), and may in fact be nothing more than a useful propaganda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda) fabrication of the Ministry of Truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Truth).
However, Bin Laden's persona as an enemy of the state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_state) serves to distract, unite and focus the anger of the people of Oceania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nations_of_Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Oceania), as he is always the subject of the "Two Minutes Hate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate)," a daily, 2-minute show beginning at 11:00 AM where a purported image of Bin Laden is shown on the telescreen (a one-channel television with internal surveillance devices that cannot be turned off). Ostensibly, Bin Laden also serves an important role as both a convenient scapegoat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat) for the totalitarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism) regime in 1984, and justifying reason for more military buildup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry), surveillance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance) and elimination of civil liberties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_liberties)."
Turns out the guy was unarmed andd didnt use his wife as a shield then eh!
Begs the question why was he assassinated and not brought to trial?
You seem to be playing around with a Security Services nom de guerre and you have to ask; why? :eek:
No you read too much into things, mi16 is the commonly used term for the Peugeot XU9J4 engine, which I used to work with and trade bits in, in a previous life. Nothing whatsoever to do with the security services.
Obviously I was not there however based on the information released to date, I feel my statement is very valid. The US have stated that he was unarmed and did not use anyone as a human shield yet he was killed..why?
Also why was his wife and kid killed?
They did say that he was resisting arrest however that could be as simple as not coming out with his arms up when requested.
Personally trial would have been the better option to see justice served however having the man as a prisioner would bring with it a whole raft of trouble.
Turns out the guy was unarmed andd didnt use his wife as a shield then eh!
Begs the question why was he assassinated and not brought to trial?
As stated in a previous post I am against the unnecessary killing of any people and animals, but can you imagine just how many innocent people would have been kidnapped, held as hostages, and most probably killed if the US just arrested him?
Because of his notoriety there was only ever going to be one outcome to his life
No you read too much into things, mi16 is the commonly used term for the Peugeot XU9J4 engine, which I used to work with and trade bits in, in a previous life. Nothing whatsoever to do with the security services.
Obviously I was not there however based on the information released to date, I feel my statement is very valid. The US have stated that he was unarmed and did not use anyone as a human shield yet he was killed..why?
Also why was his wife and kid killed?
They did say that he was resisting arrest however that could be as simple as not coming out with his arms up when requested.
Personally trial would have been the better option to see justice served however having the man as a prisioner would bring with it a whole raft of trouble.
"Personally trial would have been the better option to see justice served however having the man as a prisoner would bring with it a whole raft of trouble."
Fair enough.
I do hate to agree with Anfield, but he's right in this case (e.g. kidnapped hostages taken) and video taken of their beheadings - the 'wringing of hands' brigade would be trying to justify the morality of not 'executing' him whilst ignoring the probable uncountable innocents being murdered.
Of course it's an impossible call..
John Little
04-May-11, 12:06
Robert Fisk is rather good on this topic-
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-was-he-betrayed-of-course-pakistan-knew-bin-ladens-hiding-place-all-along-2278028.html
I find it hard to believe though that his execution was done as quickly as reported.
I think they may have had one or two questions that they would have liked answers to before shooting him.
I agree there will no doubt be repercussions to this, and the celebrations should maybe have been kept private, but are people actually saying it would have been better to let him live? I find it shocking that a Muslim ceremony of some sort had to be carried out on his body when he was buried at sea. I think people are forgetting he killed 3000 people in September 2001, and many more, he very obviously didn't give a hoot about any religion they followed, or respect any religious wishes they may have had. People say it was done so as not to further anger the Muslim community which is fair in itself, had he not been a cruel dictator who murdered at will I would have agreed with this, however as it stands I think it's a shame he didn't get tried and get proper justice.
Turns out the guy was unarmed andd didnt use his wife as a shield then eh!
Begs the question why was he assassinated and not brought to trial?
As I see it, he was on the books as a pro-american operative in Afghanistan. He knew intel, then somewhere along the way when the USA stopped supporting his rabble, things turned nasty as he felt he was sold out. He turned against the US armed with what they knew and became enemy no 1 after the WTC attacks in 1993. He couldn't stand trial because he would sing like a canary in the witness box on all the dirty dealing, he would have made Assange to look like Mother Theresa.
As I see it, he was on the books as a pro-american operative in Afghanistan. He knew intel, then somewhere along the way when the USA stopped supporting his rabble, things turned nasty as he felt he was sold out. He turned against the US armed with what they knew and became enemy no 1 after the WTC attacks in 1993. He couldn't stand trial because he would sing like a canary in the witness box on all the dirty dealing, he would have made Assange to look like Mother Theresa.
And Rheghead wins the coconut.
The guy was trained by the West to kill for the West but the relationship turned sour.
We brought it onto ourselves to some extent
I agree there will no doubt be repercussions to this, and the celebrations should maybe have been kept private, but are people actually saying it would have been better to let him live? I find it shocking that a Muslim ceremony of some sort had to be carried out on his body when he was buried at sea. I think people are forgetting he killed 3000 people in September 2001, and many more, he very obviously didn't give a hoot about any religion they followed, or respect any religious wishes they may have had. People say it was done so as not to further anger the Muslim community which is fair in itself, had he not been a cruel dictator who murdered at will I would have agreed with this, however as it stands I think it's a shame he didn't get tried and get proper justice.
We dont have the right to play god.
What harm did it do to pay respect to the guys religion?
He was not a dictator, he was the leader of a terrorist organisation
Say for arguments sake that Iraq was a poweful nation and thay deemed that the western invasion of their country was illegal and as such we had to be taken down.
They raid the palace and shoot the Queen and bury her at sea.
Would the country be outraged by this.
Obviously this is different as the Queen is the head of out state and OBL was the head of a terrorist organisation but it is the closest comparison that my tiny mind could fathom.
Interesting read John Little..
'But the mass revolutions in the Arab world over the past four months mean that al-Qa'ida was already politically dead. Bin Laden told the world – indeed, he told me personally – that he wanted to destroy the pro-Western regimes in the Arab world, the dictatorships of the Mubaraks and the Ben Alis. He wanted to create a new Islamic Caliphate. But these past few months, millions of Arab Muslims rose up and were prepared for their own martyrdom – not for Islam but for freedom and liberty and democracy. Bin Laden didn't get rid of the tyrants. The people did. And they didn't want a caliph.
I met the man three times and have only one question left unasked: what did he think as he watched those revolutions unfold this year – under the flags of nations rather than Islam, Christians and Muslims together, the kind of people his own al-Qa'ida men were happy to butcher?
And finally very true;
'But now, increasingly, they can say these things. They don't need Bin Laden. He had become a nonentity.'
"..They raid the palace and shoot the Queen and bury her at sea.."
Would the country be outraged by this.
If they took the whole of the Windsor mob I would supply the boat
If they took the whole of the Windsor mob I would supply the boat
QE II perhaps? :lol:
Yeah that was a poor point I made.
What i mean is that just because the West have done something it doesnt make it right or proper.
I am sure Al Queda think that their actions are right and just for their cause.
At the end of the day we shoudnt be in Iraq or Afghanistan and if they werent inundated with crude oil then we certainly wouldnt be interested in them.
QE II perhaps? :lol:
Because of the numbers of them you would need a ship that size
Yeah that was a poor point I made.
What i mean is that just because the West have done something it doesnt make it right or proper.
I am sure Al Queda think that their actions are right and just for their cause.
At the end of the day we shoudnt be in Iraq or Afghanistan and if they werent inundated with crude oil then we certainly wouldnt be interested in them.
There is another argument that suggests that if it was not for OBL, then NATO would not be in Afghanistan.
But I agree with you, it is an unjust and illegal war
NATO may be in there now but the whole thing was kicked off by US and UK forces without the backing of NATO or the UN.
tonkatojo
04-May-11, 15:01
What's the difference between Osama Bin Laden and Muhammed Ali ?
Ali was still standing after 12 rounds. [lol]
NATO may be in there now but the whole thing was kicked off by US and UK forces without the backing of NATO or the UN.
That may be the case, but if OBL/al Queada were not in Afghanistan would the UK/USA invaded?
All that has happened is that thousands of innocent people in Afghanistan & Pakistan have been killed by both Nato forces and insurgents
oldmarine
04-May-11, 15:06
My question is (are the Navy SEALS who did him in the bad guys or the good guys?) He was un-armed and no doubt the Navy SEALS were well-armed.
John Little
04-May-11, 15:12
They are neither. They are an instrument of policy and that is all.
I would guess that they were following orders to kill him.
Obviously their actions resulted in the loss of life and that is something they will have to live with, sometimes it is necessary to kill but that is my question on the whole episode, was is necessary to kill OBL and the others.
Why is it acceptable on the forum to crack jokes about the death of people, yet if you mention a RTA in Caithness the thread is closed?
John Little
04-May-11, 15:41
Because there is a difference between the deaths of terrorists whose existence is remote from yours, and the deaths of members of communities with whom you are intimately involved, where family may, understandably, be upset?
Better Out Than In
04-May-11, 15:49
And Rheghead wins the coconut.
The guy was trained by the West to kill for the West but the relationship turned sour.
We brought it onto ourselves to some extent[/QUOTE]
Surely you don't mean Bettyhill?
mi16, I do agree with you on some parts, I guess the harm I think it did was that (and I'm going to sound repetitve) he paid no respect to the people of 9/11 or their families. To be honest I don't entirely know where I stand on this argument, but I think if I had a relative die on that day or any other because of OBL then I would be outraged they respected his religion. I do however think it perhaps was the best thing to try and minimise any retalliation. God now I'm contradicting myself, anyways I've said enough now!
Seven UN staff members were killed because a yank nutter burned a copy of the Koran - pretty obvious they would not dump him overboard like a bit of jetsam, placate where one can..
I can't understand what all the media fuss is all about Bin Laden's death pictures not being released by US Gov? They've been put on internet! Not pretty.
I can't understand what all the media fuss is all about Bin Laden's death pictures not being released by US Gov? They've been put on internet! Not pretty.
Already it seems we have a conspiracy about a conspiracy!
US officials have stated that pictures are fake and the web site http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/ adds that:
"..Furthermore, the facial expression and beard are very reminiscent of a 1998 image of bin Laden, the first picture shown below. Next to it, we show the original resolution of the “corpse” image as we’ve seen it (197 by 263 pixels), “flopped” 180 degrees on the horizontal axis to conform to the original 1998 image’s beard orientation. The third image is a blended image of the two, with the “corpse” image at 100 percent opacity below the original image at 43 percent opacity. The way the images “lock” in place at the mouth, beard and nose indicate to us that the image circulating on the Web and some foreign television outlets is nothing but a clumsy fake."
After looking at photos (search their site) I would be inclined to agree with them.
I can't understand what all the media fuss is all about Bin Laden's death pictures not being released by US Gov? They've been put on internet! Not pretty.
If you're talking about the picture that's been going around for a few days now, it's fake, just Google 'Osama Bin Laden dead fake' and you will see the original picture that has been photoshopped to look like Bin Laden.
If you're talking about the picture that's been going around for a few days now, it's fake, just Google 'Osama Bin Laden dead fake' and you will see the original picture that has been photoshopped to look like Bin Laden.
Thanks did that but that one is not the same as the one that was circulated by a Andy Carvin.
Already it seems we have a conspiracy about a conspiracy!
US officials have stated that pictures are fake and the web site http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/ adds that:
"..Furthermore, the facial expression and beard are very reminiscent of a 1998 image of bin Laden, the first picture shown below. Next to it, we show the original resolution of the “corpse” image as we’ve seen it (197 by 263 pixels), “flopped” 180 degrees on the horizontal axis to conform to the original 1998 image’s beard orientation. The third image is a blended image of the two, with the “corpse” image at 100 percent opacity below the original image at 43 percent opacity. The way the images “lock” in place at the mouth, beard and nose indicate to us that the image circulating on the Web and some foreign television outlets is nothing but a clumsy fake."
After looking at photos (search their site) I would be inclined to agree with them.
Oh my God this is getting serious - again I have to agree with anfield! - I put 'bin laden dead' into Google, then clicked images and loads come up of that fake picture - I did wonder what Orger would be the first to fall for that nonsense...:roll:
You should try googling osama bin laden and elvis in gay marriage!
Because there is a difference between the deaths of terrorists whose existence is remote from yours, and the deaths of members of communities with whom you are intimately involved, where family may, understandably, be upset?
I never mentioned a Caithness fatality only a RTA.
Jokes should not be made of the dead.
It seems OBL's 12 year old daughter has claimed that he was indeed executed after being captured, and right in front of her eyes also.
Thanks did that but that one is not the same as the one that was circulated by a Andy Carvin.
Where is that picture available to view?
John Little
05-May-11, 17:38
Where is that picture available to view?
Be very careful Gizmo...
Be very careful Gizmo...
Careful of what John?
John Little
05-May-11, 17:58
Why because if you push some people on what they said you may end up being called a forum bully, a troll and getting red reputation.
Why because if you push some people on what they said you may end up being called a forum bully, a troll and getting red reputation.
John, i'm not following you at all, you'll have to be less cryptic.
Why because if you push some people on what they said you may end up being called a forum bully, a troll and getting red reputation.
Or you could just be ignored John. On 13th April I asked Drunken Duck for info re his source in connection with the flight plan authorisation prior to the Kintyre Chinook crash. Then I posted a chaser for the source a few days later. Still waiting.
perhaps he didnt wish to divulge his source on a public forum, quite understandable really
Or you could just be ignored John. On 13th April I asked Drunken Duck for info re his source in connection with the flight plan authorisation prior to the Kintyre Chinook crash. Then I posted a chaser for the source a few days later. Still waiting.
He might be away -Last Activity 13-Apr-11 17:29
He might be away -Last Activity 13-Apr-11 17:29
Thank you, fair point Bekisman.
Aye, Drunken Duck is most probably sleeping off a hangover in a far flung corner of the world, but without giving the game away I'm pretty sure he would have been in a good position to know some of the detail about the flight.
Kevin Milkins
05-May-11, 22:08
Anagram of Osama bin laden........... Lob man in da sea !!
How mad is that?
Oh well if they say he's dead, could be...
'Al-Qaeda has confirmed the death of its leader, Osama Bin Laden, according to a statement attributed to the group and posted on jihadist internet forums.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13313201
One thing about the guy though, he could grow a cracking beard.
On the face of it he was a decent project manager also.
northener
06-May-11, 22:39
One thing about the guy though, he could grow a cracking beard.
I've stayed out of this thread because I was absolutely mortified at the disgusting 'unofficial' pictures.
I was convinced that U.S. special forces had actually killed Scroobius Pip.:eek:
Stand down, all is well with the world....
Or mebee they didnt kill him but just told everyone they did................. Meanwhile back in Guantamano bay
oldmarine
07-May-11, 14:48
I don't understand the fascination for viewing dead bodies. I saw plenty of them during WW2 and they were not pretty sights. I saw an enemy soldier who was shot in the eye and half of his head was blown away with all kinds of matter hanging out. It was gruesome. People who insist in seeing sights like that have to be sick.
I don't understand the fascination for viewing dead bodies. I saw plenty of them during WW2 and they were not pretty sights. I saw an enemy soldier who was shot in the eye and half of his head was blown away with all kinds of matter hanging out. It was gruesome. People who insist in seeing sights like that have to be sick.
Of course there will be those that get a kick out of viewing those kind of pictures, but i'm pretty sure that most people just want to see a picture of Bin Laden's corpse for indisputable proof that he is dead.
Of course there will be those that get a kick out of viewing those kind of pictures, but i'm pretty sure that most people just want to see a picture of Bin Laden's corpse for indisputable proof that he is dead.
If you want indesputable proof just wait about 30 years. Or if he pops up in the meantime on a video saying "I'm not dead" that would prove the opposite.
Tubthumper
08-May-11, 10:08
Al Qaeda have confirmed that OBL has been killed.
I wonder, if the CIA and so on are right on top of all 'enemy' communications, why can't they arrange for a a drone attack on the Al Qaeda press officer? And if OBL was 'running Al Qaueda' from his bolt-hole of 5 years, why didn't they find his transmissions and jump on him earlier?
Mind you, if they'd nailed him 5 years ago, who would be their bogey man? And where better to have your enemy than isolated in an effective prison near Islamabad? And why not wait until he'd become an irrelevance before removing him with great publicity - save him up till you need an election winning coup?
Oh dear, I'm becoming a bit of a cynic in my old age...
Oh dear, I'm becoming a bit of a cynic in my old age...
Naw Tubs you have been like that for some time [lol] Dinna change
Early on in the week we were informed that the OBL house had no telephone or internet connections (http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-56695020110502?irpc=984) and that is why it was brought to the attention of US intelligence.
Now we are informed that the house was the al Quaeda hub (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13325595) from where OBL ran the show.
So how was he directing his operatives, pigeon post?
well not to be cheeky anfield.. but people have been running campaigns since the begining of time without phones or internet. its amazing what a courier can deliver , and without ever having the conversation overheard or copied..
Might help to explain;
'Osama bin Laden, who led a secluded life behind the barbed wire and high walls of his USD one million mansion in Pakistan, did not rely on Internet or telephone to connect to the outside world but on trusted couriers and thumb drives they delivered, US officials say.
The world's most wanted terrorist, who remained elusive for US troops for decades, spent many hours on the computer, relying on couriers to bring him thumb drives packed with information from the outside world to his home in Abbottabad, New York Times quoted US officials as saying.
His once-large entourage of Arab bodyguards was down to one trusted Pakistani courier and the courier's brother, who also had the job of buying goats, sheep and Coca-Cola for the household.
The brothers, both in their 30s, offered various explanations to the neighbours about their comparative wealth, once saying they had a hotel in Dubai or that they worked in the money-changing business. They were Pashtuns from Charsadda, in Pakistan's northwest frontier.
The courier and his brother, both killed in the raid, were sons of a man bin Laden had known for decades. A bin Laden son, Khalid, who lived in the home and was also killed, was married to a sister of the Khans, Pakistani officials said.'
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Osama-depended-on-couriers-to-keep-in-touch-with-outside-world/787533/
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