Ian Huntley

[connieb19]

I'm surprised no-one on here has mentioned ian Huntley, and his failed suicide attempt. Why wasn't he given medicine in liquid form, seeing as this is the third time he's tried this?

[j4bberw0ck]

I'm surprised no-one on here has mentioned ian Huntley, and his failed suicide attempt. Why wasn't he given medicine in liquid form, seeing as this is the third time he's tried this?

Connie, sorry, I haven't read the story. Do you mean give medicine in liquid form so he can't stockpile pills, or so he can succeed in killing himself?

Looking at the plus side, if he kills himself the taxpayer saves £2,000+ per week for the next umpteen years. There's no doubt of his guilt, after all, and neither as I recall does he deny the crime.

[connieb19]

Connie, sorry, I haven't read the story. Do you mean give medicine in liquid form so he can't stockpile pills, or so he can succeed in killing himself?

Looking at the plus side, if he kills himself the taxpayer saves £2,000+ per week for the next umpteen years. There's no doubt of his guilt, after all, and neither as I recall does he deny the crime.
I meant liquid medicine so he cant stockpile tablets.
The plus side for me is that by the time he is attempting to take his own life he must be feeling miserable. To take an overdose would would just be an easy way out.
Why is he given antidepressants anyway, I mean, does it matter if he sinks into depresion?

[MadPict]

Cuts in funding is the reason the Prison Service no longer give liquid medicines. They want to return to the situation where prisoners cannot stockpile drugs. Liquid medication is the only way this can happen.

The Prison Service have an obligation to treat all prisoners in a human way and that includes looking after their mental health. If a prisoner requires treatment for mental health problems they are obliged to treat them.

[connieb19]

maybe if they put him in with all the other prisoners it will cheer him up a bit. What a shame he's feeling a bit under the weather. :roll:

[pultneytooner]

maybe if they put him in with all the other prisoners it will cheer him up a bit. What a shame he's feeling a bit under the weather. :roll:
They could increase his medication.;)

[j4bberw0ck]

The plus side for me is that by the time he is attempting to take his own life he must be feeling miserable. To take an overdose would would just be an easy way out.

Thanks for clarifying. But if prison is supposed to be about rehabilitation, doesn't making him miserable and and giving him nothing to look forward to, ever again, count as a cruel and unusual punishment? How much more punitive can you be than to withhold hope?

Allowing him suicide might be a (a) kinder, and (b) more cost-effective.

[willowbankbear]

Thanks for clarifying. But if prison is supposed to be about rehabilitation, doesn't making him miserable and and giving him nothing to look forward to, ever again, count as a cruel and unusual punishment? How much more punitive can you be than to withhold hope?

Allowing him suicide might be a (a) kinder, and (b) more cost-effective.


take it ye dont have kids then? Let this monster rot, He should have hung for what he did,End of.[disgust] [disgust]

[changilass]

Thanks for clarifying. But if prison is supposed to be about rehabilitation, doesn't making him miserable and and giving him nothing to look forward to, ever again, count as a cruel and unusual punishment? How much more punitive can you be than to withhold hope?

Allowing him suicide might be a (a) kinder, and (b) more cost-effective.


Some folks can't and shouldn't be rehabilitated, IMHO, he is a good example of this. As for WBB's idea of hanging, I also think that option is too good for him, a blunt, rusty knife would be my idea, and before you ask, YES I would be willing to do the dirty deed.[evil]

[goldenguernsey]

Most folks would agree with letting him commit suicide, I think it's too good for him.
What about the parents of those 2 little girls???
How much more can they be put through?
If that was my child I couldn't post on here what I thought he was due to.
Let him out, but publicise the day and time of his release, the mothers of the world will see he gets what he is due to.

[angela5]

Ian Huntley should be given the Mussolini treatment.........Hung up and castrated then left to bleed to death.

[willowbankbear]

Ian Huntley should be given the Mussolini treatment.........Hung up and castrated then left to bleed to death.

I thought of that 1 as well, but I thought hangin or the chair would be better for the beast

[j4bberw0ck]

take it ye dont have kids then? Let this monster rot, He should have hung for what he did,End of.[disgust] [disgust]

Well, yes, actually, I do. But I'm not sure how letting the legal or prison system abuse him solves anything. If the system can "let him rot" then it can let you, or me, or a relative of yours rot, too, if we committed a crime.

@changilass: I agree that not everyone can be rehabilitated, and possibly that Huntley should have hanged, but can't see how use of a blunt rusty knife differentiates the system or the executioner from the system operated by thingummybobber Al-Zarqawi, who was hacking the heads of Westerners just for being Westerners, until he was killed. You either have a legal system with proscribed rules that apply to everyone, or you have a free-for-all where the strongest and nastiest and most vicious wins. Not an attractive alternative.

@goldenguernsey: Mob rule and mob execution would be the surest sign of all that our society has finally reached rock bottom. What next? Gladiators fighting to the death for entertainment? Lions let loose on people for entertainment? Programs like Big Brother have already convinced me that we're on our way there in terms of intellectual and social decline, but that's just me. Perhaps you were joking?

Mob rule and mob stupidity is what was driving the mob who, 2 years ago, vandalised a house in the south-east and terrified the occupant. "Pedofile" was amongst the garbage written on the walls and windows. The word had got round of a child sex offender moving into the neighbourhood and sure enough, this person had just moved in. Female, too, which isn't the usual profile for a child sex abuser.

But how colossally, tragically, abysmally stupid do you have to be to confuse a paediatrician with a paedophile? Trouble is, that's mobs for you. They stop doing anything that might be related to thinking. Oh, yes, and most of the people in the mob were mothers, heaven help us all.

[j4bberw0ck]

Ian Huntley should be given the Mussolini treatment.........Hung up and castrated then left to bleed to death.

If you derive satisfaction from the thought, it might not be far from the feeling of satisfaction Huntley got when he brutally drew out the suffering of two young girls. Sadism can't have any place in justice. As a matter of principle.

[mareng]

If you derive satisfaction from the thought, it might not be far from the feeling of satisfaction Huntley got when he brutally drew out the suffering of two young girls. Sadism can't have any place in justice. As a matter of principle.

If you carried out a poll and 30-40% of the adult population advocated some sort of brutal retributiion for Ian Huntly - should those people be "educated" or listened to?

[j4bberw0ck]

Good question. Couple of points:

1. When you say "educated" in that way, it implies to me at least that you - probably mischievously :lol: - mean the sort of re-education beloved of Communist, Fascist states where to disagree with the system means you're ill and get shipped off to be "educated". Clearly, I don't believe that.

2. The punishment and management of offenders has never been a subject where the general population has a "democratic right" to determine what should happen. The rules are made by elected government, and interpreted by the judiciary (which is independent of the politicians who made the rules).

3. Justice isn't supposed to be a blood-feud, or revenge.

So, bearing those points in mind, I'd like to think that the population could be well-enough educated to be able to appreciate and agree that administration of justice has to be clear, clinical, dispassionate and just. Letting emotions take over is dangerous because then you have a country full of raving nutters looking for revenge, instead of a country which occasionally finds a few people who are raving nutters.

In answer to your question: yes, the 30 or 40% should be listened to because we operate in a type of democracy, if only for the warning they give about the state of what passes for thinking within the society. And then they should be shown that their way involves abandoning every legal and personal safeguard that hundreds of years have built into what used to be the best justice system in the world (and may still be, if the government ever stops diluting the safeguards). If they want brutal retribution, they have to accept that if it were them accused, or their son, or daughter, they would have to stand by and accept it being done to them. And then if they still advocate brutal retribution, they should be prevented by force of law from doing it, just like the force of law prevents other things happening.

<edit>and by force of law I don't mean lines of police with batons. I mean law.</edit>

If you build brutal retribution into the justice system, you've already got to the gladiators stage because what you're doing is satisfying the public's blood lust (based on mob psychology fed by the media) not a need to punish / rehabilitate / keep the public safe.

[Rheghead]

I think Huntley should be allowed to take his own life if he wants, I don't agree with the fact that valuable prison officer's time is taken up every half hour to prevent him from doing something that is perfectly legal to do in today's society.

I agree with all the calls for capital punishment in this case but those posts are just emotive nonsense as we don't have capital punishment anymore!

I think we have a duty of care over those prisoners who actually want to be rehabilitated and be released, and to those who are prepared to face the judgement of the Courts. Huntley doesn't want to or is incapable to do either so I say let him die and free up a cell for someone else.

[j4bberw0ck]

While we're kinda chewing the cud on this one, it might be argued that if retribution is wanted, it might be due elsewhere as well. The Data Protection Act, a lovely piece of legislation already referred to in the TPS thread, was blamed for preventing information being passed between government agencies of various sorts. Had the information been passed, Huntley wouldn't have got the job, and the two girls might still be alive.

Doesn't excuse what Huntley did, of course, or mitigate it, but the two girls died in part because "the system" screwed up.

[mareng]

Good question. Couple of points:

1. When you say "educated" in that way, it implies to me at least that you - probably mischievously :lol: - mean the sort of re-education beloved of Communist, Fascist states where to disagree with the system means you're ill and get shipped off to be "educated". Clearly, I don't believe that.

2. The punishment and management of offenders has never been a subject where the general population has a "democratic right" to determine what should happen. The rules are made by elected government, and interpreted by the judiciary (which is independent of the politicians who made the rules).

3. Justice isn't supposed to be a blood-feud, or revenge.

So, bearing those points in mind, I'd like to think that the population could be well-enough educated to be able to appreciate and agree that administration of justice has to be clear, clinical, dispassionate and just. Letting emotions take over is dangerous because then you have a country full of raving nutters looking for revenge, instead of a country which occasionally finds a few people who are raving nutters.

In answer to your question: yes, the 30 or 40% should be listened to because we operate in a type of democracy, if only for the warning they give about the state of what passes for thinking within the society. And then they should be shown that their way involves abandoning every legal and personal safeguard that hundreds of years have built into what used to be the best justice system in the world (and may still be, if the government ever stops diluting the safeguards). If they want brutal retribution, they have to accept that if it were them accused, or their son, or daughter, they would have to stand by and accept it being done to them. And then if they still advocate brutal retribution, they should be prevented by force of law from doing it, just like the force of law prevents other things happening.

<edit>and by force of law I don't mean lines of police with batons. I mean law.</edit>

If you build brutal retribution into the justice system, you've already got to the gladiators stage because what you're doing is satisfying the public's blood lust (based on mob psychology fed by the media) not a need to punish / rehabilitate / keep the public safe.



The "educated" option was used because all to often these days - official bodies trot out that course of action, when it wouldn't do any harm just to listen to the offending point of view and accept that it is perhaps valid.


If we are happy in the UK that we are generally a well-ballanced lot, then if a significant number want Ian Huntley punished more than he already is - maybe we should acknowledge that?

Whilst I would have to admit to agreeing with you in general - but I'm advocating something nastier for Mr Huntly - Can't help it, I don't need re-education and I don't think it makes me a bad person.

On a lighter note.

Vote for your local Gladiator Party - at least we would win more Olympic medals. Mmmmm....... as long as someone didn't start an Olympian Party.

[mareng]

While we're kinda chewing the cud on this one, it might be argued that if retribution is wanted, it might be due elsewhere as well. The Data Protection Act, a lovely piece of legislation already referred to in the TPS thread, was blamed for preventing information being passed between government agencies of various sorts. Had the information been passed, Huntley wouldn't have got the job, and the two girls might still be alive.

Doesn't excuse what Huntley did, of course, or mitigate it, but the two girls died in part because "the system" screwed up.

One more post, then I've really got to get on with some work.......

Yes - those two would have, but I'm pretty sure we would still have been reading about him in the papers by now.

[j4bberw0ck]

One more post, then I've really got to get on with some work.......

Yes - those two would have, but I'm pretty sure we would still have been reading about him in the papers by now.

I was wondering if you'd retired......... :lol:

And yes, if not them, then others.

[j4bberw0ck]

The "educated" option was used because all to often these days - official bodies trot out that course of action, when it wouldn't do any harm just to listen to the offending point of view and accept that it is perhaps valid.

Agreed. Listen by all means, then discuss..... and underline the point that emotive justice is just revenge. And if it's revenge, why bother with justice at all?



If we are happy in the UK that we are generally a well-ballanced lot, then if a significant number want Ian Huntley punished more than he already is - maybe we should acknowledge that?

Yes. We already have done. The papers are / were full of it. And then we have to accept the bit about justice, cold, clinical and dispassionate. For the sake of principles that protect all of us from a system where neurotic judges pass sentence based on personal belief, where sadistic or sociopathic prison officers can do an "Al Ghraib" on prisoners with public approval, and where mobs have licence to burn people they don't like out of house and home.


Whilst I would have to admit to agreeing with you in general - but I'm advocating something nastier for Mr Huntly - Can't help it, I don't need re-education and I don't think it makes me a bad person.

Agreed again. I admit to feeling that something worse would be appropriate. BUT once those justice standards are abandoned, you can never have them back again. I admit also to wanting £1,000,000 in my bank account; but I'm not going to go rob a bank or defraud old ladies just to get it because I believe in some principles.


On a lighter note.

We need one of of those :lol:

[Naefearjustbeer]

If he is so determined to end his own life let him carry on, It will save us tax payers an absolute fortune. It will also free up some prison space for some of these other toe rags that get let off with all sorts.

[newpark]

Wish he hadn't failed hope he succeeds soon. And hope it's slow and painful.

[mareng]

[QUOTE


Agreed again. I admit to feeling that something worse would be appropriate. BUT once those justice standards are abandoned, you can never have them back again. I admit also to wanting £1,000,000 in my bank account; but I'm not going to go rob a bank or defraud old ladies just to get it because I believe in some principles.



[/QUOTE]

Okay, So - I want greater punishment for Huntley, but in doing so - I'm still not planning to rob a bank, or defraud old ladies. Selective standards???

I know the quote "but the Krays were good to their mum".

(I can't figure how to get smileys in the text)

[j4bberw0ck]

Okay, So - I want greater punishment for Huntley, but in doing so - I'm still not planning to rob a bank, or defraud old ladies. Selective standards??

No. Because I'm happy in practice to accept the principle of keeping my emotions out of the way of how the justice system works, as I am also with the £1mio and robbery. I see no contradiction......

So when did you retire? Allow me to be the first to congratulate you :lol::lol:

Cheers!

[mareng]

No. Because I'm happy in practice to accept the principle of keeping my emotions out of the way of how the justice system works, as I am also with the £1mio and robbery. I see no contradiction......

So when did you retire? Allow me to be the first to congratulate you :lol::lol:

Cheers!

Sorry - missunderstanding...... "Okay, So - I want greater punishment for Huntley, but in doing so - I'm still not planning to rob a bank, or defraud old ladies. Selective standards???" I was speaking of myself.

Retire? Can't - need to pay for toys.

[j4bberw0ck]

Retire? Can't - need to pay for toys.

Good man. Are you planning to help Airfix out? They're going bust:lol:

[Whitewater]

Lots of sensible comments here, justice has to done through the system as it is, we may not like it, but it is the law. It is unfortunate that in the past mistakes have been made, and too many innocent people hung because that was what the puplic of the day required. I hope we are better than that now, but mistakes will still be made and we will continue to call for blood in extreme cases.

Ian Huntley is guilty, if he wants to die or any other killer for that matter, we should allow it. I mean if we look at the Human Rights Bill, could the people who revive them not be charged as they are depriving them of their right to die. Hmm, complicated subject this human rights bill, or is it just the way we interpret it.

[j4bberw0ck]

Ian Huntley is guilty, if he wants to die or any other killer for that matter, we should allow it.

I'm inclined to agree with that.


I mean if we look at the Human Rights Bill, could the people who revive them not be charged as they are depriving them of their right to die. Hmm, complicated subject this human rights bill, or is it just the way we interpret it.
As I understand it the Human Rights Bill specifically excludes a right to die. Or at least, chooses not to deal with the subject. Happy as usual to be corrected if I'm wrong.:D

[Whitewater]

I must admit I have never read it, just picked up bits and pieces along the way, which I know is propably rather dangerous as I am reading somebodyelses personal interpretation.

[mccaugm]

[quote=Rheghead;130848]I think Huntley should be allowed to take his own life if he wants, I don't agree with the fact that valuable prison officer's time is taken up every half hour to prevent him from doing something that is perfectly legal to do in today's society.

I thought suicide was illegal in Britain? I agree Huntley should be allowed to choose if he lives or dies. I also agree that it is a strange situation when we are paying to keep alive someone who clearly does not wishes to be dead. However I do not advocate anarchy which is something that mob rules seems to be.

[j4bberw0ck]

Suicide hasn't been a crime for some years. Assisting suicide, though, is a biggie.

[squidge]

You have to divorce emotion from the law for precisely the reason that as a mother, I would want to tear huntly limb from limb if one of those little girls had been my child. I would want to make sure his death was slow and painful and that he felt everything my child had felt.

However I do not beleive hanging should be brought back, i dont believe in mob rule or in the right to vengeancealong the lines of allowing the mothers to deal with huntly. The only place that punishment should be determined is by the courts. That means that Huntly should not be left to die as he chooses and that his punishment should be the most severe that our courts can dish out. It means that as a civilised country we have to look after the prisoners and ensure their rights are maintained. If we stop doing that for Huntly then what happens when we stop doing that for other prisoners, what happens when we stop doing that for people locked up for minor offenses - they get their head chopped off by a fellow inmate and someone says - Ach well they get what they deserve. All prisoners do not deserve death or torture or beatings but open the door and where does it end.

There is a saying that the "punishment should fit the crime". It is IMPOSSIBLE for any punishment to fit the kind of crime that we are talking about here so we do the best we can and thats all we can do. Ian Huntly will never be free again like Myra Hindley was never free and Ian Brady will never be free. Myra Hindleys constant appeals for parole were an indication that she was not happy and contented with her life. Ian Brady attempts suicide and doesnt live a happily settled life. It doesnt make up for the crimes they committed but it is the best we as a society can do.

[MGB1979]

The fact that Huntly has tried to top himself twice shows that the worst punishment for him is to be allowed to contemplate what he did for the rest of his natural life. Well worth our tax money.

What's his missus up to these days? [para]

[mareng]

The fact that Huntly has tried to top himself twice shows that the worst punishment for him is to be allowed to contemplate what he did for the rest of his natural life. Well worth our tax money.

What's his missus up to these days? [para]

Not sure, but I don't know how she got off with it.

Wasn't it shown that she helped Huntley in the clean-up of the house?

[squidge]

She didnt get off with anything as far as i can see.
She was convicted of perjury - she gave him a flase alibi claiming she was with him when she was out in Grimsby. She did not do anything to the girls nor did she beleive he had killed them until confronted with clear evidence

[badger]

Coming into this one a bit late but haven't seen any correction of the first post. He was on liquid medication and it appears he got the pills from other prisoners. He was also on 15 minute watch previously which had recently been relaxed to 30 mins. giving him the chance to nearly succeed.

Nothing - no amount of imagining torture or horrible death for Huntley - will ever do anything for the parents of those girls. I feel quite sorry for the people who have to look after him but inflicting any of the gruesome punishments mentioned earlier is not going to make anyone feel better in the end. I have often wondered what I would do if anyone hurt my children or grandchildren and yes, you think nothing could be too bad. But if you actually did it, could you live with that memory? After the initial satisfaction, what then?

Does wanting to kill himself mean he has finally looked at what he did and can't live with it? If so, there can be no worse torture. Or if he really doesn't care and is seeking an easy way out, does it matter if he gets it? He can never pay for what he did and every time his name comes up, the girls' parents have to go through it all again. Maybe it would be better if he was just no longer there.

[nightowl]

Personally, I think remorse has nothing to do with the misery Ian Huntley is coping with just now. Could it not be the "special treatment" other inmates give to child molesters and child murderers, that is making his life so unbearable. After all prison can't be all that bad. Just look at a certain section of the community who can't wait to re-offend in order to get right back in there! Keep him in prison for ever.

[henry20]

[quote=MGB1979;130913]The fact that Huntly has tried to top himself twice shows that the worst punishment for him is to be allowed to contemplate what he did for the rest of his natural life. Well worth our tax money.



I totally agree - Huntly is a complete waste of space and deserves to suffer for what he did, but suffering he is. The worst scenario for him must be waking up from a suicide attempt he failed and knowing he is going to continue to be punished for his appalling crimes. Whether he feels remorse or guilt we will never really know, but for him to kill himself means he is free from any emotional turmoil he may be suffering!

[martin macdonald]

huntley and carr should have been hung for what they did to these two girls.
lets not forget the severity or the evil they inflicted. my thoughts and prayers are with the girls families.[ this country is far to soft on crimes such as this]

[Rheghead]

...carr should have been hung for what they did to these two girls.

What did she do to those girls?

[connieb19]

I agree with the people who are saying he should be kept alive. He is obviously miserable which is about the best we can hope for.
As for Maxine Carr, she is just stupid, not evil and she has paid her time. She could not have prevented this from happening. She thought he was innocent and made a bad decision which has cost her dearly.

[ice box]

I agree with the people who are saying he should be kept alive. He is obviously miserable which is about the best we can hope for.
As for Maxine Carr, she is just stupid, not evil and she has paid her time. She could not have prevented this from happening. She thought he was innocent and made a bad decision which has cost her dearly.You fly we the crows you get shot with crows she is as bad as him for sticking up for him . It wouldn't be that if she moved next door to you .

[connieb19]

You fly we the crows you get shot with crows she is as bad as him for sticking up for him . It wouldn't be that if she moved next door to you .
it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if she moved in next door to me, why should it? She's stupid not dangerous. :roll:

[maverick]

In certian societies it was common practise to allow an individual to do the honourable thing and (end it all). The individual being someone who was convicted of a crime. In Japan it was comon practise for convicts to commit HARA-KIRI in a ritual known as SEPUKU, this ritual comprises of the individual usually reciting a death poem ( normally asking for forgiveness for the crime committed) the individual would then adopt a kneeling position where they would produce a short sword or knife usually a Katana and dig in on their left side in an area known as the HARA ( above the pelvis and below the rib cage for all intents and purposes the stomach) and cut from their left to right severing the spinal chord and any organs that are in the way and as the cut was completed a number 2 would sever their head from the neck with what is known as a DIA-KATANA (a long sword)the beheading is done as a form of release (sort of putting out of their misery). KIRI means cut,cutting or to cut depending on the context that it is used. In that particular society the individual would have been seen to atone if you like for their trangressions and to absolve society of the burden of having to look after them in prison and any shame brought upon his family, it also gave the victims family a form of release ( knowing that the individual would never again commit a crime)this was considered an honourable end by all parties involved. HARA-KIRI was only applied to males, females had their own ritual but thats another story.. I feel that maybe the families of those little girls may never have any closure until huntley is dead. If he wants to end his life then let him get on with it, after all its not us who will ultimately judge him.....

[obiron]

it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if she moved in next door to me, why should it? She's stupid not dangerous. :roll:

wouldnt want her next door to me. she did her time fair enough but to get a new identity for her crime thats wrong.

[orkneylass]

I'm glad the subject of Maxine came up because I feel very strongly that she has been a victim in this whole sorry saga too. If you read the coverage you will have picked up that she was an insecure young woman in her first serious relationship. She had absolutely no reason to know what Huntley was capable of - after all, the authorities did not even manage to tell the school, and a private individual does not have access to that kind of information. At the time she lied for him, she honestly believed that he had had nothing to do with it but was going to be suspected because of a previous unrelated offence - that's what he told her, she loved and trusted him, and so she believed him. She was not at home when the murders took place - he obviously did not expect her to be a Hindley like accomplice. Have you heard the tape recording of the moment that she realised he had done it? - it is heart rending. She adored those girls. Her life has been ruined, she has had to change her identity which usually means cutting ties with family and friends. She will be hunted by the press for the rest of her life, and all because of her bad luck in meeting Ian Huntley. Don't forget that she was Holly and Jessica's favourire at the school - I can't think that they would have wanted people to talk of her as some on this forum have.

Ian Huntly - one thing, Maxine Carr, quite another.

[martin macdonald]

[evil]if you look in huntley and carrs eyes you will see pure evil.

[connieb19]

I'm glad the subject of Maxine came up because I feel very strongly that she has been a victim in this whole sorry saga too. If you read the coverage you will have picked up that she was an insecure young woman in her first serious relationship. She had absolutely no reason to know what Huntley was capable of - after all, the authorities did not even manage to tell the school, and a private individual does not have access to that kind of information. At the time she lied for him, she honestly believed that he had had nothing to do with it but was going to be suspected because of a previous unrelated offence - that's what he told her, she loved and trusted him, and so she believed him. She was not at home when the murders took place - he obviously did not expect her to be a Hindley like accomplice. Have you heard the tape recording of the moment that she realised he had done it? - it is heart rending. She adored those girls. Her life has been ruined, she has had to change her identity which usually means cutting ties with family and friends. She will be hunted by the press for the rest of her life, and all because of her bad luck in meeting Ian Huntley. Don't forget that she was Holly and Jessica's favourire at the school - I can't think that they would have wanted people to talk of her as some on this forum have.

Ian Huntly - one thing, Maxine Carr, quite another.Orkneylass, Thanks, that post is exactly what i would have liked to say but wouldn't have known how to put words like you can.

[willowbankbear]

I'm glad the subject of Maxine came up because I feel very strongly that she has been a victim in this whole sorry saga too. If you read the coverage you will have picked up that she was an insecure young woman in her first serious relationship. She had absolutely no reason to know what Huntley was capable of - after all, the authorities did not even manage to tell the school, and a private individual does not have access to that kind of information. At the time she lied for him, she honestly believed that he had had nothing to do with it but was going to be suspected because of a previous unrelated offence - that's what he told her, she loved and trusted him, and so she believed him. She was not at home when the murders took place - he obviously did not expect her to be a Hindley like accomplice. Have you heard the tape recording of the moment that she realised he had done it? - it is heart rending. She adored those girls. Her life has been ruined, she has had to change her identity which usually means cutting ties with family and friends. She will be hunted by the press for the rest of her life, and all because of her bad luck in meeting Ian Huntley. Don't forget that she was Holly and Jessica's favourire at the school - I can't think that they would have wanted people to talk of her as some on this forum have.

Ian Huntly - one thing, Maxine Carr, quite another.

Did any of you hear this womans reaction when the law told her what huntly had done?
She was absolutely distraught & nearly hysterical, if she was acting she did an oscar performance in my mind.

[Ricco]

Personally I cannot abide the likes of Huntley. They should be tied safely to a nice long piece of cable and lowered into a volcano until they are almost at ignition point and then left there.

[j4bberw0ck]

[evil]if you look in huntley and carrs eyes you will see pure evil.

I think the media made up your mind for you, long ago, martin. Reason, logic and fact clearly aren't going to have much to do with your viewpoint.

[j4bberw0ck]

wouldnt want her next door to me. she did her time fair enough but to get a new identity for her crime thats wrong.

No, obiron, it's not wrong. What's wrong is that she had to get a new identity because there are people out there who can't accept that if you're guilty of a crime and serve your time, in the eyes of the law, you've squared your debt with society.

In other words, if Maxine Carr didn't get a new identity, she'd be hounded and harassed and possibly harmed by all those people who are incapable of realising that that's how the system works. How it must work, so people can learn from mistakes and move on. Then there's the media, who don't give a stuff about anything except selling newspapers or advertising - the grittier they can spin it, the better they're pleased because the Great British Public loves nothing better with its breakfast than Being Offended, or Being Outraged. They can go down to the pub and sound off about how the country's going to the dogs, without having the wit to realise that they're the ones undermining it.

The people who would pursue her are people with the same outlook and mentality as those who trashed a paediatrician's house because they didn't understand the difference between a paedophile and a paediatrician. All they heard was "paedo...." and they were off.

That is no way for a society to handle itself.

And for all those who think a rusty knife, savagely applied, is what Huntley needs, and that they would do it........ a thought.

Remember all those videos of the Beatles concerts and Cliff Richard, in the days when audiences, largely comprised of young girls, screamed and wept? That's mob psychology. Take one individual out of the audience and put her with her hero(es), her behaviour would be totally different. No impulse to scream or weep. That's individual psychology.

Those who say bravely that they'd be happy to apply the knife are acting like the screaming mob. Put alone in front of a defenceless Huntley, and handed a knife - no, no way would they do it. It's all talk, but dangerous talk, because they next seem to expect that the State will take on that role. The State as torturer is something Stalin perfected - and no one was safe. Anyone who would be able to do it, and smile as they did, is in all probability sicker than Huntley.

"Oh Brave New World, that hath such people in it" - Aldous Huxley. **

<**this is not a compliment, peeps. Read the book if you will - "Brave New World", Aldous Huxley.>

[martin macdonald]

I think the media made up your mind for you, long ago, martin. Reason, logic and fact clearly aren't going to have much to do with your viewpoint.
just looking at the big picture evil vs good[i do hope and pray that no more little girls come prey of huntley or carr, or any other fiends that should have been hung]

[j4bberw0ck]

Awww c'mon, Martin. Huntley's inside for good and may not live much longer by all accounts. Carr never did anything to the girls and has served her time for perjury. She's paid her debt. If there was the remotest chance she is a danger to small children, she'd still be inside.

Your statement is nonsensical.

[percy toboggan]

I feel sorry for the families of the dead girls.

Huntley is now an atttention seeker, pure and simple.
in 2002 he was a callous murderer of children. How must their families feel when his name is dragged up in the press again.

If he was serious about suicide he would have done it properly. He is cowardly and gutless, and a total waste of space. A revolting man.Facilitate his suicide by all means, he would not be missed.

[willowbankbear]

J4bberw0ck , if Holly & the other wee lassie were yours & that beast murdered your children , would you still be on your little high horse about retribution?

No . I bet ye wouldnt, ye would be exactly the same as all the rest of us parents, look after your own[disgust]

[j4bberw0ck]

How must their families feel when his name is dragged up in the press again.

Then there is a simple solution. Let the press have the good sense, good taste, and sensitivity not to mention him any more. But if they do mention him, we go back to my point above; they sell more papers because the Great British Public loves nothing more than Feeling Outraged over breakfast, and puffing themselves up into some of the hysterical comments we've all become familiar with - blunt knives, hangings, burnings. Heavens above, the Daily Express has traded on that for years.

[willowbankbear]

Then there is a simple solution. Let the press have the good sense, good taste, and sensitivity not to mention him any more. But if they do mention him, we go back to my point above; they sell more papers because the Great British Public loves nothing more than Feeling Outraged over breakfast, and puffing themselves up into some of the hysterical comments we've all become familiar with - blunt knives, hangings, burnings. Heavens above, the Daily Express has traded on that for years.

I dont read trash like the Express & the press do as they please with constant errors & mis reporting, it must cost them a fortune inlibels each year? this is goin off topic though.

So what would you do if the Beast killed yer own???

[j4bberw0ck]

I dont read trash like the Express & the press do as they please with constant errors & mis reporting, it must cost them a fortune inlibels each year? this is goin off topic though.

Don't read media full of constant errors and misreporting? Good Lord. Are you sure? Why else are you here on these boards?


So what would you do if the Beast killed yer own???

I believe I already answered that
(http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=14113)

[willowbankbear]

The way i interperet your posts is that if that beast killed your kids, you would want him rehabilitated.AYE Right[disgust]

I doubt that, you can accept that the monster that kills yer kids gets rehab, & after 25 years gets out to renew his life while you have 2 less children forever!!
Do ye have any idea how hard it is to pick up the pieces afrter 1 of yer kids is taken from you? let alone murdered, many folk are never the same & many just dont ever get over it, I dont think I could if my wee son was ever harmed & neither would his mother.

I just think youre so wrong

[Sig]

let the scumbag die that is what he did to the young girls.

[j4bberw0ck]

The way i interperet your posts is that if that beast killed your kids, you would want him rehabilitated.AYE Right[disgust]

No, chuck, wrong. I have no idea how I'd feel in those circumstances. I don't believe it's likely he can be rehabilitated, in the sense that I rather imagine what's left of him is just a shell. All I'm saying is that the only available way of punishing this man is through the legal system.

The legal system says that after your sentence is served, you've paid your debt. That has to be right as a principle otherwise anyone convicted of any crime would have a record forever. You should note though that since Huntley was sentenced to life imprisonment, if he's ever let out at all it will be "on licence". In other words, for the rest of his days he hean't spent his sentence. He can be picked up at any time and returned to jail, with or without an excuse.


I doubt that, you can accept that the monster that kills yer kids gets rehab, & after 25 years gets out to renew his life while you have 2 less children forever!!
Yes, WBB, I see the point you're making but that's where it starts to sound as though what you would really want would be revenge. And that is what you can't have, because if a legal system is based on revenge, no one is safe. Surely you can see that?


Do ye have any idea how hard it is to pick up the pieces afrter 1 of yer kids is taken from you? let alone murdered, many folk are never the same & many just dont ever get over it, I dont think I could if my wee son was ever harmed & neither would his mother.

I just think youre so wrong
No, I have no idea, thankfully, how it feels to lose a child. I have no idea how I would feel if my child were murdered. Notwithstanding that, if you look closely at what I've written in this thread you'll see that I've referred always to the generality of the legal system, and how it relates to Huntley. WBB, there isn't one person in our society who can afford to have the sort of legal system you appear to want, where it's all about revenge.

I may have misunderstood you, of course. But if you believe revenge is it, then I know you are wrong.

[maverick]

[QUOTE=j4bberw0ck;131264]

The legal system says that after your sentence is served, you've paid your debt. That has to be right as a principle otherwise anyone convicted of any crime would have a record forever.

what if the legal system is flawed, there have been cases recently where convicts have been released and within 48 hours killed again. This thread isin't about revenge,its about Huntleys suicide attemp and whether or not he should be allowed to take his own life. It costs approx £104000 per year to keep him safe and warm in prison, that would be about £2600000 for a 25 year stretch at todays rate. In prison he will be given access to facilities, gym, TV, DVD'S, mobile phone and further education if he so chooses. Rehabilitation is only there for those who want to be rehabilitated. By the time Huntley wants to top himself, then its not rehab he is looking for, and an education is wasted on an idiot. Now in my opinion as long as Huntley is alive the families of Holly & Jessica with have their misery compounded in the knowledge that the Beast who was responsible for their childrens demise is still alive and breathing, plus the taxpayers burden, and the general public(like the people who are on the org) who are angered by his crimes. So in my opinion i feel that if Huntley wants to kill himself then it can only be beneficial for all parties concerned. I know that if it was my child then i would be a lot happier going to my grave safe in the knowledge that the beast would no longer be able to wander the earth killing young children ( a form of closure for the families if you like ) I am not an advocate of capitol punishment and that is not the issue here. If a convict who was convicted of murder wanted to atone for his/her crime by commiting suicide, then i say go for it.

[squidge]

the difficulty here is who makes the decision? Do prison officers decide not to help him? Do the courts? Do the parents?

And if prison officers decide not to help him what about others who they decide not to help who may not have such a high public profile. Do we allow Prison officers to pick and choose? Do we allow some poor tortured soul whose crimes are not so severe to make the decision to end their lives and allow prison officers to make a decision not to help them? I am quite sure that prison officers themselves would not want that level of responsibility. And what happens when the people who make the decisions to ignore the suicide attempts and allow people to die then go on and make decisions that some people should be encouraged to die.

Our system has to be based on the assumption of rehabilitation. It may be that Huntly eventually comes up for parole - a decision can and should be made then and only then as to whether he is suitable for parole - my personal feelings about this are immaterial. We have to have ONE system and it has to be a system that is as fair and equal as possible - that balances the need for justice for the victims with the need for us to maintain our humane society. Nothing can bring those little girls back. Nothing can be enough justice for someone like huntly - nothing but better Huntly lives a long and miserable life than many poor and not so high profile offenders are allowed to kill themselves whilst in a desperate mental state with no one to look out for them.

[j4bberw0ck]

what if the legal system is flawed, there have been cases recently where convicts have been released and within 48 hours killed again.

Certainly there has been one case like that. But they're very, very rare; they just get lots and lots of publicity so mob mentality starts up again. How do you propose to stop it ever happening again? Perhaps by executing everyone you think may be a threat to another person?


This thread isin't about revenge,its about Huntleys suicide attemp and whether or not he should be allowed to take his own life. It costs approx £104000 per year to keep him safe and warm in prison, that would be about £2600000 for a 25 year stretch at todays rate.

Yes, and if you look back you'll see I advocated allowing him to commit suicide if for no better reason than to save £2,500 a week, which is my understanding of what a prisoner costs to keep. The costs in his case will be far, far higher because of suicide watch and the need to keep him separate from other prisoners.

As to revenge, many contributors to the thread were clearly interested in revenge - rusty knives, roastings, causing him suffering equivalent to that he caused - all were mentioned, if you look. My point about the legal system and revenge is simply to try to put that in perspective. Mob revenge, or individual revenge, cannot be permitted in a civilised society because then there is no control over who does what to whom. In some countries revenge against one family member spills over into family blood feuds - ice cream wars in Glasgow spring to mind. How healthy was that?


In prison he will be given access to facilities, gym, TV, DVD'S, mobile phone and further education if he so chooses. Rehabilitation is only there for those who want to be rehabilitated.

As a matter of information for you, the legal system is obliged to offer the chance of rehabilitation to all inmates. Whether people want to take it or not.


By the time Huntley wants to top himself, then its not rehab he is looking for, and an education is wasted on an idiot.

I don't think it was ever established that Huntley is an "idiot". Either we accept that rehabilitation is offered or we go back to the pre-Victorian idea of jail as a punishment, with horrendous conditions and a short life expectancy. Then you'd be howling if you or one of yours got put away........


Now in my opinion as long as Huntley is alive the families of Holly & Jessica with have their misery compounded in the knowledge that the Beast who was responsible for their childrens demise is still alive and breathing, plus the taxpayers burden, and the general public(like the people who are on the org) who are angered by his crimes.

<sigh> Once again, my point is made for me. Whether you like it or not, this isn't about the feelings of the girls' parents, or the anger of the general public, or even the anger of people on the Org - all of which are irrelevant (and rightly so) to the justice system as it stands because they are the drivers for revenge.

The justice system MUST be divorced completely from anger and emotion. If it isn't, it cannot be equitable. If you don't like the one we've got, can I suggest you emigrate to Iran, or Nigeria, or Somalia, and have a taste of Sharia law, which gives you all the scope for revenge you could possibly want? In Huntley's case, it would even give some of our rusty-knife-wielding savages what they want - the chance personally to enjoy killing him, so reducing themselves to his level.


So in my opinion i feel that if Huntley wants to kill himself then it can only be beneficial for all parties concerned. I know that if it was my child then i would be a lot happier going to my grave safe in the knowledge that the beast would no longer be able to wander the earth killing young children ( a form of closure for the families if you like ) I am not an advocate of capitol punishment and that is not the issue here. If a convict who was convicted of murder wanted to atone for his/her crime by commiting suicide, then i say go for it.

And at last we find something we can agree on. :eek::lol:

[robglysen]

I just hate the fact that everything he does makes national news, for gods sake, just kill the (you know what) and be done with him, and let the families involved get on with their lives without seeing his face on the front page every six months.

[j4bberw0ck]

But on a slow news day, the meejah and your Fleet Street reptiles need a story that gets people going so they can sell papers / advertising. I mean, if they put a little paragraph of two lines at the bottom corner of page 14 saying "Huntley attempts suicide and fails", they've succeeded in reporting the news.

But no..... because they know it whips up a storm of indignation, and that there's nothing like indignation to get people to buy the paper, it's headlines, in-depth analyses, comments by pshrinks, comments by ex-prison officers, police, another opportunity to publish a photo of two beautiful little girls, and fifteen things you didn't know about Huntley. Oh, and probably run a poll asking how many people would like to remove bits of his anatomy.

So you could blame (a) the media, for incitement, and (b) the public, for responding to it.

[maverick]

J4bberw0ck.. My post was about Ian Huntleys suicide attempt, and to give to him my utmost blessing should he desire to try again.. I am not now nor will i ever be interested in seeking revenge upon him. So do me a favour and spare me your long winded lectures as i have no interest in those either. I do have sympathy for the victims families and don't blame them if they wanted revenge, and a lot of people on the org agree with that. The reason people keep mentioning revenge is because if faced with similar circumstances thats how they would feel, and you do not have the right to tell people how they should feel, seeing how your so judgemental why don't you go to the middle east and preach your cermon over there, but remember to leave your return address with someone so they will know where to post your remains to...

[j4bberw0ck]

Maverick, you're impervious to logic, to fact and to reason. I suspect you may have difficulty with all three, and so descend to silly insults. I understand that, I really do - the descent to silly insults, I mean. I did it just the other evening, and was man enough to admit my mistake and apologise.

How about you, chuck?

Meantime, I'll leave you in peace, but will look forward to reading it as and when you see fit. Toodle-pip!

[Billy Boy]

i dont believe that he should be allowed to die, why should he get the easy way out. Its bad enough that he is allowed medication he should be made to suffer because whatever he goes through will never comes close to what he did to they young girls or what he put their families through.
i know if it had been my daughter i wouldnt want him to die i would want him to be aware every waking moment what he had done.
i know that there will be a few who dissagree with me but hey thats up to them.
it breaks my heart to think of the shear terror he put they girls through he is pure evil and i for one am more that happy to see my tax money going to keeping him in prison and spend a long life of pain and suffering[evil]

[Cedric Farthsbottom III]

Saw two pictures in the paper today,one of Ian Huntley and the other of Natasha Kamputsch.

Natasha triumphed over evil and won

Ian Huntley is evil.Can he change,I don't think so.

[percy toboggan]

There are certain categories of criminal who deserve zero compassion. Huntley is one of them. All talk of 'parole' is a nonsense. The man will never walk free. The political cost for any so minded Home Secretary would be too much to bear. Remember Myra Hindley? No he's doomed to a life behind bars.He deserves it.

[saxovtr]

keep him alive and make him suffer real real badly

[tam]

keep him alive and make him suffer real real badly

I AGREE

PS SORRY FOR MY INFRACTIONS PEOPLE
I,M A PARENT AND GOT A BIT OVER EMOTIONAL

[willowbankbear]

I AGREE

PS SORRY FOR MY INFRACTIONS PEOPLE
I,M A PARENT AND GOT A BIT OVER EMOTIONAL

Tam it is perfectly understandable, many of us on here feel exactly as you do, its natural. Look after your own.

[tam]

Tam it is perfectly understandable, many of us on here feel exactly as you do, its natural. Look after your own.

cheers mate

tam

[maverick]

J4bberw0ck
Logic tells us that people talking on this thread are talking "metaphorically", and that they are fully aware that they would never be able to hang, murder, kill or butcher anyone legally, but this forum gives people the oppertunity to view and express their feelings, and people who post their views wont have them accepted by everyone who reads them. Thats Logic. Fact whenever anyone has an opinion that you dont agree with then you go off on a great crusade telling them how misinformed they are and how misguided they are,but never fear the mighty J4bberw0ck has all the answers to lifes mysteries, and all the time this is going on you never stop to think that people are entitled to an opinion. Other peoples opinions may not matter to you but you should respect the fact that they are entitled to have one and choose to share that opinion with others. Reason tell us that people will not always agree, people are entitled to have opinions and views and should be entitled to express them freely without having their posts disected and ridiculed by someone with a superiority complex. You should give some of the orgers a little more credit than you do. All that i have done is tell you how i feel and for that i make no apology...

[willowbankbear]

J4bberw0ck
Logic tells us that people talking on this thread are talking "metaphorically", and that they are fully aware that they would never be able to hang, murder, kill or butcher anyone legally, but this forum gives people the oppertunity to view and express their feelings, and people who post their views wont have them accepted by everyone who reads them. Thats Logic. Fact whenever anyone has an opinion that you dont agree with then you go off on a great crusade telling them how misinformed they are and how misguided they are,but never fear the mighty J4bberw0ck has all the answers to lifes mysteries, and all the time this is going on you never stop to think that people are entitled to an opinion. Other peoples opinions may not matter to you but you should respect the fact that they are entitled to have one and choose to share that opinion with others. Reason tell us that people will not always agree, people are entitled to have opinions and views and should be entitled to express them freely without having their posts disected and ridiculed by someone with a superiority complex. You should give some of the orgers a little more credit than you do. All that i have done is tell you how i feel and for that i make no apology...

Thankyou Maverick, my sentiments exactly, Jabber keeps jabbing the big spoon time after time on this thread not actually saying anything different from each post but staying intent on winding folk up. Time to wrap this thread up ,its getting dull seeing you repeat yourself.

[connieb19]

Thankyou Maverick, my sentiments exactly, Jabber keeps jabbing the big spoon time after time on this thread not actually saying anything different from each post but staying intent on winding folk up. Time to wrap this thread up ,its getting dull seeing you repeat yourself.
Willowbankbear and Maverick, It's not that I don't agree with what you're saying, but would you still want the same revenge if say, Ian Huntley was your son? I'm just curious because I don't know how I would feel myself.

[willowbankbear]

Hard question that Connie, Huntlys folks dis owned him after it emerged what he`d done, Im not sure what Id do but Im hopeful that neither of my kids do what Huntly did.
Id be pretty ashamed , Im sure of that

[squidge]

this forum gives people the oppertunity to view and express their feelings, and people who post their views wont have them accepted by everyone who reads them. Thats Logic. Fact whenever anyone has an opinion that you dont agree with then you go off on a great crusade telling them how misinformed they are and how misguided they are,but never fear the mighty J4bberw0ck has all the answers to lifes mysteries, and all the time this is going on you never stop to think that people are entitled to an opinion. Other peoples opinions may not matter to you but you should respect the fact that they are entitled to have one and choose to share that opinion with others. Reason tell us that people will not always agree, people are entitled to have opinions and views and should be entitled to express them freely without having their posts disected and ridiculed by someone with a superiority complex. You should give some of the orgers a little more credit than you do. All that i have done is tell you how i feel and for that i make no apology...


And you should do the same maverick. As i see it J4bberw0ck has answered some points you made in your posts in a reasonably calm manner. I dont see that he has been disrespectful just that he is arguing certain points with you.

It seems that whenever YOUR views are challenged you resort to the simple comeback of "its my opinion and thats it " you dont seem to explore issues or ask any questions or respond to any asked of you and that is as you pointed out - your perogative.

However offering alternatives and asking questions and offering a different point of view is other people's perogatives and you should maybe consider making a well thought out response instead of the "its my opinion so tough" which actually isnt very challenging or terribly interesting at all l

[maverick]

Willowbankbear and Maverick, It's not that I don't agree with what you're saying, but would you still want the same revenge if say, Ian Huntley was your son? I'm just curious because I don't know how I would feel myself.

Thats a very good question connie, one i hope that i will never have to answer. I think Huntleys parents dis-owned him. I just hope that i'm never in that situation..

[maverick]

And you should do the same maverick. As i see it J4bberw0ck has answered some points you made in your posts in a reasonably calm manner. I dont see that he has been disrespectful just that he is arguing certain points with you.

It seems that whenever YOUR views are challenged you resort to the simple comeback of "its my opinion and thats it " you dont seem to explore issues or ask any questions or respond to any asked of you and that is as you pointed out - your perogative.

However offering alternatives and asking questions and offering a different point of view is other people's perogatives and you should maybe consider making a well thought out response instead of the "its my opinion so tough" which actually isnt very challenging or terribly interesting at all l

There you go again squidge, telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing , you just can't accept that people just want to have an opinion and to be freely able to express that opinion. You have the need to draw conclusions from the posts that people submit, and disect them and twist them to suit your own ends, i have no desire for an argument ( if i wanted an argument i can have one of them with my missus any day of the week), i just want to be able to give my opinion, and if that is so boring for you then might i suggest that you simply ignore it, perhaps other people may not find them so boring..

[golach]

There you go again squidge, telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing , you just can't accept that people just want to have an opinion and to be freely able to express that opinion. You have the need to draw conclusions from the posts that people submit, and disect them and twist them to suit your own ends, i have no desire for an argument ( if i wanted an argument i can have one of them with my missus any day of the week), i just want to be able to give my opinion, and if that is so boring for you then might i suggest that you simply ignore it, perhaps other people may not find them so boring..
Maverick, if you post on an open forum, then you will get alternate views, as Squidge has expressed. If this is not to your liking, then dont' bother reading or replying if it gets you upset.

[squidge]

should maybe consider

Thats a suggestion Maverick just that - its not telling you to do anything so who is twisting things to suit their own ends.

As you said you just post your opinion but if i think it is ignorant and ill thought out or even just plainly incorrect like the National minimum wage thing then it is my perogative to challenge that. thats how people learn - its how people make their minds up - by listening and discussing and reading opposing points of view. Its not about necessarily changing YOUR opinion but about giving other people a different view point so that they can draw their own conclusions.

If you dont want to reply to me or J4 then dont but i think secretly you like it my friend ;)

[connieb19]

Thats a very good question connie, one i hope that i will never have to answer. I think Huntleys parents dis-owned him. I just hope that i'm never in that situation..:~( I wish I could put into words what I'm trying to say here.
Don't you think your answer to that question about Huntley being your son is what J4bberwock is trying to say? Every criminal is someones son or daughter and wanting revenge wouldn't work, before you know it everyone would be wanting revenge on someone and where does it stop.
A couple of days ago I would have said castration, a rusty blade ect ect too but I can see what J4bberwock is saying and it's made me question my own thoughts, for the better I think.
we would all like to see people like Huntley tortured, but what happens when it's one of your own? You and Willowbankbear are saying you always look after your own but where would you draw the line as to what is acceptable before you would disown them and think torture is ok.
The revenge thing would work great until it was one of our own.
I don't know if this post makes any sense but I can't do any, sorry.

[j4bberw0ck]

Thank you, connie; you've hit the nail right smack-bang on the head.

[caithnessboyagee]

:~( I wish I could put into words what I'm trying to say here.
Don't you think your answer to that question about Huntley being your son is what J4bberwock is trying to say? Every criminal is someones son or daughter and wanting revenge wouldn't work, before you know it everyone would be wanting revenge on someone and where does it stop.
A couple of days ago I would have said castration, a rusty blade ect ect too but I can see what J4bberwock is saying and it's made me question my own thoughts, for the better I think.
we would all like to see people like Huntley tortured, but what happens when it's one of your own? You and Willowbankbear are saying you always look after your own but where would you draw the line as to what is acceptable before you would disown them and think torture is ok.
The revenge thing would work great until it was one of our own.
I don't know if this post makes any sense but I can't do any, sorry.you may just have appoint connie but we will never know unless were in that situation were selfs .

[DOC ROCK]

Decapitation is the answer for the likes of him, this would save the Country a fortune. The money could be put to far better use, for instance the health service or education.

[pultneytooner]

Gaze upon thy destiny, with this sword I will cleave your lying maggot mouth from your swine head!

[DOC ROCK]

Gaze upon thy destiny, with this sword I will cleave your lying maggot mouth from your swine head!
Exactly ,I could not agree with you more..

[maverick]

:~( I wish I could put into words what I'm trying to say here.
Don't you think your answer to that question about Huntley being your son is what J4bberwock is trying to say? Every criminal is someones son or daughter and wanting revenge wouldn't work, before you know it everyone would be wanting revenge on someone and where does it stop.
A couple of days ago I would have said castration, a rusty blade ect ect too but I can see what J4bberwock is saying and it's made me question my own thoughts, for the better I think.
we would all like to see people like Huntley tortured, but what happens when it's one of your own? You and Willowbankbear are saying you always look after your own but where would you draw the line as to what is acceptable before you would disown them and think torture is ok.
The revenge thing would work great until it was one of our own.
I don't know if this post makes any sense but I can't do any, sorry.

connie i have never asked a question about huntely being my son , neither have i suggested killing him for revenge, my post was simply to agree with the prospect of Huntley killing himself. i feel that capitol punishment is not the answer, neither is mob rule or anyone assisting him with his own death, his own demise would have to be at his own hand.My point was this connie, if Ian Huntley wished to kill himself as atonement for his crime, then I personally don't have a problem with that, and that was my view on the subject. At no time did i suggest mob rule or revenge killing or even state execution. I mistakenly thought that i was trying to validate the reason for him being allowed to kill himself, and thats all i have to say on the subject..

[celtic 302]

if he wants to kill himself, don't let him... surely that is punishment in it's self.

and connie, dont make the assumption that we would all like to see people like huntly tortured. yes, what hes done is evil, but torture is barbaric, and no-one deserves it.