Burkas

[John Little]

It's a simple enough thing in't it?

If a woman wishes to wear something then should she not be allowed to?

It's a question of liberty of the subject really. The new law in France may be aimed at ending oppression of women forced to wear a veil. But what about those who want to?

Or brides?

Or masked balls?

The wee french guy has it wrong I think.

[rob1]

[QUOTE=John Little;839869]If a woman wishes to wear something then should she not be allowed to?[QUOTE]

True, but in many of these cases the woman does not have a choice. Those that do often feels pressured to do so and others feel that it is expected of them.

I was raised to believe that it was rude to talk to someone while covering your face. I still do.

Speach is not necessary just words, the tone of voice, sound of voice, accent and also facial expression play a huge role. With burkas and niqabs you can't see facial expression.

[porshiepoo]

This is one of those topics where the rights and wrongs of it can never be ironed out enough to deliver a result that will make everyone involved happy.

I understand the reason Muslim women wear the Burkha and I know it's a tradition that possibly goes back further than Islam. However, there is a lot of opposition to the wearing of them in our society and I also understand that.
Although the Burkha is a traditional, necessary and religious form of dress for Muslims it also gives a secretive, suspicious and menacing appearance especially with the current state of the War on terror (I'm not suggesting that's a correct way of thinking though).

Like I said I understand both sides and will watch closely the effects this Law has in France.

[John Little]

That is your opinion, and it is your background, race, religion, education that shapes it.

My point is that if a woman wishes to then she should be able to. The state should not have the right to prescribe what she wears.

I went to school in Thurso and I can still remember the indignation I felt when I was taught that the British government banned the wearing of Highland dress after the 45.

These actions come with value added. If a woman wishes to express her comitment to her religion, or her feelings of cultural modesty through wearing a veil then there are many precedents for women doing so throughout history. Nuns 'take the veil' do they not?

On the other hand the only men I can think of who wear veils are the Tuareg nomads of north Africa- to keep sand off their faces. There's the mudmen of Borneo of course but that is a special case.

[Gronnuck]

It's a simple enough thing in't it?

If a woman wishes to wear something then should she not be allowed to?


If only it were that simple,:lol::confused
The practice of covering one’s face using a burka or niqab is not mentioned in the Koran. All that is required under Islamic law is that both genders dress modestly. But you can be sure opinions are going to be polarized as arguments develop.
There will be Muslims at the radical end of the spectrum who will wear the burqa or nijab to make a political statement and cock a snook at mainstream society.
There will be zealots at the other end who will cite any number of reasons why they shouldn’t be allowed to, because it oppresses women or there are security implications.
Hopefully there will be enough opinion in the centre to moderate those on the extremes. The arguments will rage on and people will get quite heated – I shall watch this thread with interest,;).

[porshiepoo]

That is your opinion, and it is your background, race, religion, education that shapes it.

My point is that if a woman wishes to then she should be able to. The state should not have the right to prescribe what she wears.

I went to school in Thurso and I can still remember the indignation I felt when I was taught that the British government banned the wearing of Highland dress after the 45.

These actions come with value added. If a woman wishes to express her comitment to her religion, or her feelings of cultural modesty through wearing a veil then there are many precedents for women doing so throughout history. Nuns 'take the veil' do they not?

On the other hand the only men I can think of who wear veils are the Tuareg nomads of north Africa- to keep sand off their faces. There's the mudmen of Borneo of course but that is a special case.

As long as it is her choice.

Shoe on the other foot: How would I feel if I went to a Muslim country and was told that if I wish to live there, work there etc I would have to wear a Burkha?
I'd probably be indignant (understatement) but I would probably head back home if I felt so against it. Having said that, if for whatever reason I had to stay in that country I would abide by their Laws and if that meant covering up in public then I'd do it.

But then I do not have any religious affliction (yes I chose the word as I do believe religion is fast becoming an affliction) that would prevent me from doing otherwise.

Like I said it's a hard one. Rights and wrongs on both sides but will never please everyone.

[gleeber]

If only it were that simple
That's right.
There was a Muslim women on newsnight last night and she never covers her head. She gets a lot of stick from her community but the main problem they have is that she is too westernised. The burka is more than an item of clothing. Its a symbol for isolation. The history of the burka has nothing to do with Islam. It comes from Persian aristocrats who demanded that all women in their court must cover their bodies from the stare of other men. It was an ownership thing. Probably still is.

[starfish]

if you chose to live in another country you should live by their rules not try to make the country live by your if you do not like thier rules why move there

[porshiepoo]

That's right.
There was a Muslim women on newsnight last night and she never covers her head. She gets a lot of stick from her community but the main problem they have is that she is too westernised. The burka is more than an item of clothing. Its a symbol for isolation. The history of the burka has nothing to do with Islam. It comes from Persian aristocrats who demanded that all women in their court must cover their bodies from the stare of other men. It was an ownership thing. Probably still is.


Yes women were considered unimportant and treated like slaves or property in Arabia before Islam.

Islam cam along and dictated a woman to be equal to a man. In fact the "Twin halves of men".

But although they may be considered equal they're certainly not given equal rights.

[golach]

I went to school in Thurso and I can still remember the indignation I felt when I was taught that the British government banned the wearing of Highland dress after the 45.

John, the Act of Proscription came in in 1747, you were not listening to your history teacher lol, it was not just the banning of wearing tartan, it included that Highland Scots could no longer bear arms, or own a Gaelic Bible, punishable by 6 months in jail, second offence was hanging or transportation.
This was a much harsher penalty than the few Euro's that the French and the Belgians too have imposed.

[nicnak]

Well me I am really gonna stick ma neck out here and probably cause a reaction but hey ho, I think that the burka should be banned, they complain about kids wearing hoodies and in many places they aren't allowed the hood up, they complain about motorcyclists wearing helmets and must take them off before entering many banks, petrol stations etc, so why not ban the burka in public areas too , if they want to wear them in their temples , churches or homes so be it but why should we have it imposed on the rest of us? I for one never trust someone who cant show their face, that is my opinion and not only that how do you know when you are in the middle of manchester it is a woman that seems to be following you in that burka? it could be a man? Feeling intimidated isnt nice either? So my choice is Ban the burka in public places, to me that seems fair and just.

[John Little]

if you chose to live in another country you should live by their rules not try to make the country live by your if you do not like thier rules why move there


Depends on the country surely? We pride ourselves on our freedoms and our tolerance.

Why should a free and democratic society be making laws about what people may and may not wear?

Acid test is whether we believe in the freedom of individuals to choose or not.

If we do not then we are no better than the tinniest of tin-pot dictators in the developing world.

[pmcd]

Here's one to throw into the pot (I'm a great fan of the burka, by the way, it cover s up a good number of things I'd rather not see!)

What's the difference between the anonymity provided by the burka, and the anonymity provided by an avatar and a pseudonym?

And which is the more frightening?

[golach]

if you chose to live in another country you should live by their rules not try to make the country live by your if you do not like their rules why move there

Fully agree with you starfish, as an ex Merchant Seaman, one of the first things we did when arriving at a new or never visited country, was to learn the do's and dont's, then try to abide by them.

[gleeber]

Here's one to throw into the pot (I'm a great fan of the burka, by the way, it cover s up a good number of things I'd rather not see!)

What's the difference between the anonymity provided by the burka, and the anonymity provided by an avatar and a pseudonym?

And which is the more frightening?
One big and obvious difference is the orgs anonymity is equal whereas Islams isnt.
Both can be equally frightening though.

[theone]

The banning of the Burka is obviously going to cause some debate.

But regardless of what side of the argument you are on, I think it's important to see this has little to do with the oppression of women, the removal of choice or even a security issue.

The ban is the result of the problems in France, and elsewhere, where integration hasn't worked as well as it might. Instead of being one happy society the population is increasingly categorised and segregated.

Wherever there are people who define themselves based on religion, race, or creed, then the society as a whole will be divided. Unless all these religions, races and creeds can come together under a single "banner" there will always be an us and them mentality.

I think the Burka ban is a manifestation of this, and an early one at that. The banning of minarets by the Swiss was another. I'm sure there will be more.

[Kells]

I went to school in Stirling where I was taught that the English invaded Scotland and banned the wearing of Highland dress to try and remove the threat of the Scottish identity through the clan system; so very far from being a British goverment decision.

[Gronnuck]

The banning of the Burka is obviously going to cause some debate.

But regardless of what side of the argument you are on, I think it's important to see this has little to do with the oppression of women, the removal of choice or even a security issue.

The ban is the result of the problems in France, and elsewhere, where integration hasn't worked as well as it might. Instead of being one happy society the population is increasingly categorised and segregated.

Wherever there are people who define themselves based on religion, race, or creed, then the society as a whole will be divided. Unless all these religions, races and creeds can come together under a single "banner" there will always be an us and them mentality.

I think the Burka ban is a manifestation of this, and an early one at that. The banning of minarets by the Swiss was another. I'm sure there will be more.

My goodness theone when you say, "Wherever there are people who define themselves based on religion, race, or creed, then the society as a whole will be divided." It sounds as if many people might want to live together in their own communities or ghettos, heaven forbid, :confused;).

[Doreen]

Well me I am really gonna stick ma neck out here and probably cause a reaction but hey ho, I think that the burka should be banned, they complain about kids wearing hoodies and in many places they aren't allowed the hood up, they complain about motorcyclists wearing helmets and must take them off before entering many banks, petrol stations etc, so why not ban the burka in public areas too , if they want to wear them in their temples , churches or homes so be it but why should we have it imposed on the rest of us? I for one never trust someone who cant show their face, that is my opinion and not only that how do you know when you are in the middle of manchester it is a woman that seems to be following you in that burka? it could be a man? Feeling intimidated isnt nice either? So my choice is Ban the burka in public places, to me that seems fair and just.
Well said i can agree with everything you said .

[theone]

My goodness theone when you say, "Wherever there are people who define themselves based on religion, race, or creed, then the society as a whole will be divided." It sounds as if many people might want to live together in their own communities or ghettos, heaven forbid, :confused;).

I'm not so sure about the ghettos, but yes, people do decide to live in their own communities, and that is where the multi-cultural society starts to fail.

[John Little]

I went to school in Stirling where I was taught that the English invaded Scotland and banned the wearing of Highland dress to try and remove the threat of the Scottish identity through the clan system; so very far from being a British goverment decision.

Aye - and there's another problem altogether. It was in fact the Stuart government of Britain- and many of those who were most enthusiastic in the ban were lowland Scottish Presbyters who did not like the Gaelic Clans or their religion.

One section of Scottish society proscribing what another should wear...

[golach]

Aye - and there's another problem altogether. It was in fact the Stuart government of Britain- and many of those who were most enthusiastic in the ban were lowland Scottish Presbyters who did not like the Gaelic Clans or their religion.

One section of Scottish society proscribing what another should wear...

Sorry John, your history of Scotland is slightly flawed, the Act of Procscription was passed by the British Government of the time 1747, the rulers at that time were the Hanovarians not the Stuarts, King George the First.

Kells, may I suggest you were taught wrongly,
Union of the Crowns was 1603
Union of the Parliaments 1707
Act of Proscription 1747, it was repealed in 1822, to let George iv come to visit Scotland wearing Tartan

[ducati]

I was educated in England and the Scots were hardly mentioned after the bit about Hadrian's wall. :confused

[RecQuery]

I'm anti-religious/spiritualism but pro-personal choice/freedom so this is a difficult one for me:

There are different types of veils (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/505-muslim-veils-hijab-burqa) and it's actually a cultural and ethnic thing more than an Islamic thing, the closest they can't get is that some of the wives of Mohammed wore it but again that's more cultural than religious.

I assume that people make the choice to take drugs and commit suicide and I would guess that people who are abused make the choice to stay with their abusers.

Other people have made the points about hoodies, motor cycle helmets and nuns.

I'm of the opinion that either personal freedom applies to everything (provided it doesn't hurt anyone else) or that people should stop using that argument for stuff like this. One does not have the freedom to arbitrarily restrict the freedom of others.

[David Banks]

If a woman wishes to wear something then should she not be allowed to?


I remember a time in Caithness when all women were expected to wear a hat to church. Yes, they could "choose" to do otherwise, but they would be "talked about" for weeks afterwards, not just by church people but by the whole community. It would have been considered a scandal not to have worn a hat, and the "offender" would have been "brought into line."

So much for "choice!"

"Ve have vays."

[shazzap]

If i went to their country,i would have to cover up. They should abide by our rules, if they want to live here.

[John Little]

Sorry John, your history of Scotland is slightly flawed, the Act of Procscription was passed by the British Government of the time 1747, the rulers at that time were the Hanovarians not the Stuarts, King George the First.

Kells, may I suggest you were taught wrongly,
Union of the Crowns was 1603
Union of the Parliaments 1707
Act of Proscription 1747, it was repealed in 1822, to let George iv come to visit Scotland wearing Tartan

Quite right - I was in a hurry. Getting confused with the treatment of the MacDonalds in 1690.

But yes - it was the British government in that it was post act of union.

[Phill]

True, but in many of these cases the woman does not have a choice.How do we know?


If i went to their country,i would have to cover up. They should abide by our rules, if they want to live here.Which is 'their' country and where in our rules does it say they cannot wear a Burka?

I feel intimidated by wimmin wearing trousers, can we ban that?

I feel intimidated by certain styles of facial hair, especially when coupled with shaved heads, tattoos and piercings. Can we ban those too.

I feel intimidated by anyone wearing a suit or a uniform, can we ban them?

[ducati]

Personally, I think when we have 100% sorted all the issues in our own culture/society then we can feel free to interfere in everyone else’s. :roll:

[theone]

Personally, I think when we have 100% sorted all the issues in our own culture/society then we can feel free to interfere in everyone else’s. :roll:

I would agree with that.

I reckon Muammar Gaddafi would too.

[Phill]

I reckon Muammar Gaddafi would too.And with his boat race, he deffo needs to wear a burka!

[shazzap]

How do we know?

Which is 'their' country and where in our rules does it say they cannot wear a Burka?

I feel intimidated by wimmin wearing trousers, can we ban that?

I feel intimidated by certain styles of facial hair, especially when coupled with shaved heads, tattoos and piercings. Can we ban those too.

I feel intimidated by anyone wearing a suit or a uniform, can we ban them?

I do not know where they all come from, i maybe should have said of the muslim faith. I am sorry you feel intimidated by the above. But at least you can see the faces of the above you mentioned, they are not hiding behind something that can be used for deception. Bike helmets have to be removed, when entering shops etc. Why not the burka.

[Phill]

I may be wrong but I don't think there is any law or mandatory requirement for Muslim women to wear a burka, it is a choice, as is the actual type of garment worn.
I don't think I've ever felt deceived by burka wearers, but I can understand why some may feel that way. But I think it is possibly more to do with a lack of understanding than anything.
Also bike helmets being removed in banks etc. is a direct result of thievery types actually committing robberies whilst wearing them (and then making good their escape on a bike), I'm not aware of a gang of marauding burka clad blaggers. Hmmmmm......... goes off to form cunning plan...

[Phill]

When it comes to religious dress, thinking about it. I think I'm more concerned with western (mainly white) men going about in long dresses. I think it has been proven there is more danger (to the young at least) from members of the mainstream Catholic church than there is from mainstream Islam.

[Carole]

[QUOTE=Phill;840020]I may be wrong but I don't think there is any law or mandatory requirement for Muslim women to wear a burka, it is a choice, as is the actual type of garment worn. ..........

The requirement is imposed by those dastardly male relatives .....


.... I'm not aware of a gang of marauding burka clad blaggers.

Me neither but wasn't there an occasion when a man (who was wanted for terrorist activity or murder) escaped the country wearing a burka?

[shazzap]

I stand by what i say. If in a country that is or is not your own. You observe their laws. Simple.

[Bazeye]

Muslim men want their women covered up so us western men cant ogle them. But its ok for the muslim women to ogle us fit blokes through their letterboxes then is it?

[ducati]

Such a huge issue in Caithness

[Carole]

Muslim men want their women covered up so us western men cant ogle them. But its ok for the muslim women to ogle us fit blokes through their letterboxes then is it?

Apparently so. Have to admit, I had never thought of it like that - thanks for pointing out this most interesting aspect Bazeye.

[squidge]

I stand by what i say. If in a country that is or is not your own. You observe their laws. Simple.

We don't have a law which says women can't wear the burkha. Women can and should be allowed to wear what they want. I don't find the burkha intimidating at all. It looks a bit weird and I don't get it but it doesn't affect me in any way. It isn't harming me or affecting my life in any way so why would I object.

[John Little]

Such a huge issue in Caithness

So true.

Orgers only want to talk about Caithness things...

[Phill]

[QUOTE]Me neither but wasn't there an occasion when a man (who was wanted for terrorist activity or murder) escaped the country wearing a burka?Most probably, but that is to do with incompetence and the lack of real passport control for departures. Any face coverings must be removed on request of an officer as far as I'm aware.

[Phill]

Muslim men want their women covered up so us western men cant ogle them. But its ok for the muslim women to ogle us fit blokes through their letterboxes then is it?I bet yer luv being ogled really, yer just jealous cos yer can't ogle back!

[John Little]

Muslim men want their women covered up so us western men cant ogle them. But its ok for the muslim women to ogle us fit blokes through their letterboxes then is it?

Okay Baz- let's have a pic. The lady Orgers can decide if you're worth ogling...

[Carole]

Most probably, but that is to do with incompetence and the lack of real passport control for departures. Any face coverings must be removed on request of an officer as far as I'm aware.

I agree with you on the point of incompetence however it does show how the wearing of these garments can be used for underhand / deceitful purposes.

[Kells]

I'm in the corner head down in shame.

Back out the corner now and googled it, lol interesting item comes up ........Legends, lies & cherished myths of world history / Richard Shenkman
.

[Kells]

Okay Baz- let's have a pic. The lady Orgers can decide if you're worth ogling...

Come on now Bas nothing nicer than a fit bloke to ogle. Make my day.:Razz[lol]:Razz

[Corrie 3]

So true.

Orgers only want to talk about Caithness things...
You are right John, mind you, theres plenty of Burka's on the Forum to talk about !! (btw, have I spelt that right?)...[lol]


C3....:roll:;)

[John Little]

OOOOh- bit risque there C3....

[gleeber]

Such a huge issue in Caithness


So true.

Orgers only want to talk about Caithness things...
I'm playing catch up on this. Whats it about?

[pmcd]

Who's going to be the first to celebrate diversity by producing the world's first tartan burka? That would make it relevant to Caithness (could be the first outing for the new Caithness tartan) and it would REALLY upset the Wee Frees. Trebles all round!

[John Little]

Duke seems to be implying that it ain't worth talking about burkas cos they're not an issue in Caithness.
My view is that they are of universal interest so whether or not they are an issue in Caithness is not a factor I considered in starting the thread,

[John Little]

Who's going to be the first to celebrate diversity by producing the world's first tartan burka? That would make it relevant to Caithness (could be the first outing for the new Caithness tartan) and it would REALLY upset the Wee Frees. Trebles all round!

Now that I like - boost for Scottish weaving - selling to the entire Muslim world...

[Kells]

Now that I like - boost for Scottish weaving - selling to the entire Muslim world...

I will put my hand up to wearing a Burka...... with the cold wind in Caithness it makes sense to wear a snood that covers my head and all of the bottom half of my face with only my eyes showing.... so if they ban the Burka will that mean I cannot wear mine. (Not tartan though, Fair Isle every time.) This is the trouble when you start to remove personal freedom the end and the edges of rules become blurred and we all become the losers. We do not base our standards on the rules of other nations but I hope continue to make our own rules.

[pmcd]

The beauty of the MacBurka is that it attaches to the upper body-shroud using press-studs. When confronted by the polis, demanding exposure of the face (or in a petrol station which also bans helmets, etc), the MacBurka can be "unpopped", and placed in the sporran. Elegant, wholly holy, and simple. Plus - in Caithness at least - it would show empathy with the rest of the Infidel population.

To accommodate Kells, the MacBurka hood could also be constructed from Fair Isle materials.

The 21st Century demands that we be flexible!

Peace Be Upon Me.

[John Little]

Nothing is new under the sun. Our perceptions of the Niqab may be skewed by our own upbringing but a generation or so ago they might not have seemed so very strange.

Even tartan ones.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad118/johnlittle21/millgirls.jpg

[Phill]

I really think we need to be a little more accepting....

http://koolnews.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/1_lil-kim-burqa.jpg

[John Little]

Local girl is she Phill?

[orkneycadian]

I really think we need to be a little more accepting....


I think that image is extremely crass and insensitive - The aperture around the eyes is far too big and shows off way too much of the face. I can imagine many being offended by so much facial features on show....

[equusdriving]

I stand by what i say. If in a country that is or is not your own. You observe their laws. Simple.

Exactly, if i went to a country where they ban drinking alcohol and was caught drinking it and my defence was oh im british we are allowed to do it there I cant really see them saying oh sorry i didnt realise pour yourself another one on us

[orkneycadian]

Why not? That appears to be the courtesy we extend to folk choosing to live in this country!

"Whats that? Someone wearing a crucifix necklace offending you? - Tsk tsk, naughty British Christian offending our nice Muslim visitors - Take it off immediately or face the sack!"

[ducati]

Nothing is new under the sun. Our perceptions of the Niqab may be skewed by our own upbringing but a generation or so ago they might not have seemed so very strange.

Even tartan ones.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad118/johnlittle21/millgirls.jpg

Blimey, its the four sets of teeth between them that concerns me :eek:

[Phill]

Local girl is she Phill?
Harem's are full of 'em like that up here, just need to know where to look! :cool:

[rich]

Could you tell me more about the mudmen of Borneo?

[Alice in Blunderland]

I really think we need to be a little more accepting....

http://koolnews.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/1_lil-kim-burqa.jpg


Local girl is she Phill?

I believe she may be taking up employment in the ex Lybster Police station ;)

[John Little]

Blimey, its the four sets of teeth between them that concerns me :eek:

Sorry Duke - is this better?

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad118/johnlittle21/scarf.jpg

Mind you - she'd better not put it across her face....

[John Little]

Could you tell me more about the mudmen of Borneo?

What? This bunch?

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad118/johnlittle21/jhouser_papua_new_guina-mud.jpg

They should be arrested!

[Phill]

I believe she may be taking up employment in the ex Lybster Police station ;)
That's got 'em queuing up already!

[ducati]

http://www.ninjasecretsrevealed.com/clothes_ninja_uniform.jpgWhat about Ninjas? They should be banned. Bliddy offensive weapon that is

[tonkatojo]

I was educated in England and the Scots were hardly mentioned after the bit about Hadrian's wall. :confused

I too was educated in England and lived at the Eastern end of that wall for quite a while and I can't for the life of me remember any thing about the wall being taught in school.:confused

[tonkatojo]

If i went to their country,i would have to cover up. They should abide by our rules, if they want to live here.

I think its just your hair you have to cover, unless you have excessive facial hair have you.:eek: But I am probably wrong.

[shazzap]

I think its just your hair you have to cover, unless you have excessive facial hair have you.:eek: But I am probably wrong.

That is my point. I do not cover my hair, here in the UK. But would have to there.
No tonkatojo i do not have facial hair.:eek::lol:

[tonkatojo]

That is my point. I do not cover my hair, here in the UK. But would have to there.
No tonkatojo i do not have facial hair.:eek::lol:

I totally agree with you on your statements, I can see where the statements of intimidation comes from an other, I was in cue for the cash machine and three full blackout covered people women I think came behind to close two of them were built like Giant Haystacks, I didn't feel to comfortable but this is probably because it is not an everyday familiar situation.

[shazzap]

I totally agree with you on your statements, I can see where the statements of intimidation comes from other, I was in cue for the cash machine and three full blackout covered people women I think came behind to close two of them were built like Giant Haystacks, I didn't feel to comfortable but this is probably because it is not an everyday familiar situation.

I am not intimidated at all. I just believe that, if you live in a country you abide by the laws there. This human right s thing is being taken too far. The case of the little girl mown down and killed, by a failed asylum seeker, who had criminal convictions, is proof of this. It stinks.

[tonkatojo]

I am not intimidated at all. I just believe that, if you live in a country you abide by the laws there. This human right s thing is being taken too far. The case of the little girl mown down and killed, by a failed asylum seeker, who had criminal convictions, is proof of this. It stinks.

Have a word with ducati his pals in the con dem nation government were meant to do something about that, but it was probably another so called "pledge" . It was not you I said was intimidated I missed out "an" and have corrected it, but I felt intimidated that was my point.

[ducati]

Have a word with ducati his pals in the con dem nation government were meant to do something about that, but it was probably another so called "pledge" . It was not you I said was intimidated I missed out "an" and have corrected it, but I felt intimidated that was my point.

I'll get right on it. :Razz

[tonkatojo]

I'll get right on it. :Razz

Good on yer lad, I won't hold my breath for a result in our favor the result will probably favor bankers and the rich only , but why break with tradition eh ??.

[ducati]

Good on yer lad, I won't hold my breath for a result in our favor the result will probably favor bankers and the rich only , but why break with tradition eh ??.

OK Nick got back to me. We won't have any more of those annoying immigrant johnny foreigner types.....eh? .......what was that?.....Oh...But only in Chelsea and some parts of Surrey. Sorry.:(

[tonkatojo]

OK Nick got back to me. We won't have any more of those annoying immigrant johnny foreigner types.....eh? .......what was that?.....Oh...But only in Chelsea and some parts of Surrey. Sorry.:(

I was hoping you would have consulted your con chaps they are the masters, but that sounds like one of their pledges alright and "Nick" now! for that matter LOL.

[oldmarine]

As long as it is her choice.

Shoe on the other foot: How would I feel if I went to a Muslim country and was told that if I wish to live there, work there etc I would have to wear a Burkha?
I'd probably be indignant (understatement) but I would probably head back home if I felt so against it. Having said that, if for whatever reason I had to stay in that country I would abide by their Laws and if that meant covering up in public then I'd do it.

I remember reading about a USA woman Colonel who wore a Burkha in Saudi Arabia so as not to draw negative attention toward herself. She was not ordered to do so, thus it was her own personal decision.
But then I do not have any religious affliction (yes I chose the word as I do believe religion is fast becoming an affliction) that would prevent me from doing otherwise.

Like I said it's a hard one. Rights and wrongs on both sides but will never please everyone.

I remember reading about a USA woman Colonel stationed in Saudi Arabia who wore a Burkha so as not to draw attention toward herself. She did it without any orders from a higher command. It was probably for the purpose to get along with people in Saudia Arabia.

[northener]

I really think we need to be a little more accepting....

http://koolnews.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/1_lil-kim-burqa.jpg

She's grown up since she was on the cover of National Geographic....

[John Little]

I hope that there is a very good reason why the pics I inserted into this thread have all been removed?

[John Little]

Actually that is a fairly clear message and your point is well made.

Logging off.

[Phill]

She's grown up since she was on the cover of National Geographic....Different lady...
http://hoguenews.com/wp-content/uploads//2009/07/afghan2-girl1.jpg


Quite a story too (http://hoguenews.com/?p=2352)

[John Little]

Well now I am completely mystified. I logged on this morning and the three pics I put on this thread were not visible to me.

Now they are.

Could somebody tell me why this is so?

Cos I am totally flummoxed.

[The Drunken Duck]

I heard that Government is really worried about the French Burka ban. Apparently they have decided to accentuate the positives of the Burka and commission a programme about young teenage Muslim girls in Newcastle and their dilemma about it. Its called "Burka Grove" and sounds reet canny like.

Oh come on. If you cant have a joke about grown women dressing up like Batman in the name of the religion .. what can you laugh at ??

[Metalattakk]

I think that image is extremely crass and insensitive - The aperture around the eyes is far too big and shows off way too much of the face. I can imagine many being offended by so much facial features on show....

What are you on about? I see no facial featu...oh wait...

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Epic Veil.

[oldmarine]

Well now I am completely mystified. I logged on this morning and the three pics I put on this thread were not visible to me.

Now they are.

Could somebody tell me why this is so?

Cos I am totally flummoxed.

John: You must have blinked. lol!!!