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rob murray
04-Apr-11, 17:26
Imagine if the dole was stopped, ie nothing no money for people "fit for work" think through what would happen. Doubtless doctors surgeries would be in undated by people seeking to be signed off work ie recieve sickness related benefits so that they can live choking up the medical system, the rest, how would they live...try and gain a days work here and there..what if work is scarcley available...a rise in crime ( people have to eat etc ) a need then for a refuge of the last resort..the work house !!!! Where can you realistically draw the line in "enabling people back to work" ?

orkneycadian
04-Apr-11, 17:30
In some parts of the world, you have to earn your dole money doing public works - Clearing litter, picking up dog dirt, cutting grass, cleaning off graffiti, that sort of thing. If you don't turn up for the work, you don't get the dole money. Folk with disabilities have to do work within the scope of their abilities. I understand that in places that have this policy, long term unemployment is very low.

rob murray
04-Apr-11, 17:35
In some parts of the world, you have to earn your dole money doing public works - Clearing litter, picking up dog dirt, cutting grass, cleaning off graffiti, that sort of thing. If you don't turn up for the work, you don't get the dole money. Folk with disabilities have to do work within the scope of their abilities. I understand that in places that have this policy, long term unemployment is very low.

I would imagine it would be either work for welfare or want, cant see many people suffering want, hence no option left for them, this is a sorta half way house from stopping all dole payments but raises issues as regards displacing paid work though, ie the people doing these jobs already would have to be sacked to create make work schemes.

orkneycadian
04-Apr-11, 17:57
From the complaints on here, there appears to be insufficient folk in Caithness picking up dog dirt, so getting some folk to do it would not appear to be displacing paid workers.

Theres probably no end of things that don't get done at the moment, that could get done if some folk were earning their dole money.

And if it works in other places, without displacing paid workers, then thats a good enough precedent to suggest it might work in this country.

Kupkake
04-Apr-11, 18:29
So are you against the people on dole then ? I personally think they should be allowed to do it, if they want to live a bleak, sad and miserable existance with nothing worth living for then its there loss at the end of it. Others who are fortunate enough to work can at least look back and say they made some effort and are happy with the outcome of their own lives, its their loss, most people i seem to see are on the doll

Corrie 3
04-Apr-11, 18:36
most people i seem to see are on the doll
Would that be one of those rubber blow up Doll's???

C3....:roll:;)

canadagirl
04-Apr-11, 18:41
It would be different if people on the dole had a bleak sad and miserable existence, but the ones I see are quite comfortable. And, yes, I have personally starved at one point. I get sick of the whining about work not paying enough- so get more than one job. If it only pays 5 bucks an hour that's still more than you had an hour ago. Work is like money, it multiplies- if a person is out there working their butt off with a good attitude they will find more work coming their way.

sweetpea
04-Apr-11, 18:41
I'm all for stopping it too or putting a time limit on how long you get it for also for the amount of so called carers allowances that some families are all claiming for each other.

orkneycadian
04-Apr-11, 18:50
So are you against the people on dole then ?

Not as a short term solution for folk between jobs. Yes as a career choice.

The Music Monster
04-Apr-11, 19:32
the ones I see are quite comfortable.

I totally agree! I signed on for about six months between qualifications and found it utterly soul destroying but a lot of the people I met there seemed to be quite happen to turn up once a fortnight and get paid for it. I know in the current economic climate it is tough getting jobs but if you are willing to go for things then better things are just over the horizon. Most of (and I know not all) the people who claim jobseekers' allowance don't bother seeking out jobs.

bagpuss
04-Apr-11, 20:20
In the 1930's and 1940's - before the NHS was set up, if you were forced through ill health or misfortune to be out of work, you didn't get a penny from the state if you had any savings at all. Doctors bills had to come out of what little money you had.I was frequenty told by my mother what it was like to be living in such poverty- and how it instilled in people the need to save against hard times, and never to waste money. The 'never had it so good' comment by Supermac in the 1960's was based on that hard fact.
perhaps what the people on this thread need to consider is that the benefits system was never actually intended to support a lavish lifestyle- only to support people in genuine need.

David from Stockport
04-Apr-11, 20:49
I agree with Orkneycadian , bring in workfare ,it would get people used to getting out of bed and give them a purpose ,if they didnt like litter picking im sure they d find a "proper job" it would also stop them working in the "black economy" .
Thanks to the last government it is now a carrer option to not work - they get there dole money (spends) and get there rent paid etc and now we dont have enough social housing most are in normal buy to let houses .
Labour last week were moaning that becouse of the present govt capping the amount that they will now pay in housing benefit this would force hundreds of thousands of unemployed , immigrants , muslims and single parents out of London as they would no longer be able to afford to live there !!!! THE BLOODY WORKERS WERE PRICED OUT YEARS AGO !!!!! its only the millionaires and benefit claimants can afford it .
Watched a documentary about Euston fire station about 5 years ago and 22 out of 23 staff on one watch lived well outside London - Wales,Newcastle etc , cos they do 4 on 4 off they commute in and sleep in the firestation cos they cant afford to live there .
One last thing - they should stop using the " unemployed " figure and use the one " economicaly inactive" which stands at about 5 million ,its the proper measure of this problem .

weezer 316
05-Apr-11, 09:53
Agreed, bring in a work for your dole scheme. There is heaps of stuff that could be done, like cleaning the beach, fixing the garden of old people etc. I think sometimes just getting into the habit of getting up every morning and doing something would help society more than the actual work itself

golach
05-Apr-11, 09:58
Agreed, bring in a work for your dole scheme. There is heaps of stuff that could be done, like cleaning the beach, fixing the garden of old people etc. I think sometimes just getting into the habit of getting up every morning and doing something would help society more than the actual work itself
Disagree with you here weezer, thats why the courts dish out community service sentences, but I would put them in Hi-Vis tops with CRIM on the back and a striped boiler suit. [lol]

chaz
05-Apr-11, 10:04
I'm all for stopping it too or putting a time limit on how long you get it for also for the amount of so called carers allowances that some families are all claiming for each other.

Yep getting carers allowance is great its so easy,not!! Many people like myself spend 24/7 looking after a disabled person and belive me it would be easier to go to work at least you get holidays then!!

The Music Monster
05-Apr-11, 10:13
Yep getting carers allowance is great its so easy,not!! Many people like myself spend 24/7 looking after a disabled person and belive me it would be easier to go to work at least you get holidays then!!

I totally agree with you - carers' allowance is a very important thing. When round the clock care has to be given, people should be paid for it. Look at it this way... Carers don't get anything like home help per hour, yet they do the same job lovingly. There is nothing cushy about being a full time carer.

Doreen
05-Apr-11, 10:31
Totally agree ive been a carer for years in the community and its hard work i feel it for familys who have to look after there relatives who are disabled or very sick they deserve every penny they get they give up most of their social life to give the love and care of their loved ones then you get other people that cant be bothered getting up of their backsides and get it given to them make them work for their jobseekers allowance .

rob murray
05-Apr-11, 11:10
A work for dole scheme would ensure that fly guys, working and signing, would be forced into legit work so head count would fall. Again as previously stated hard core dolers would flood into surgeries to get signed off and convert benefits. The work would have to be properly planned and managed and applied equally to all...how would this be done given human nature and tendency's for favouritism ? ie everyone must be treated equally one works they all work..somehow cant see it in practise !

sweetpea
05-Apr-11, 11:22
Yep getting carers allowance is great its so easy,not!! Many people like myself spend 24/7 looking after a disabled person and belive me it would be easier to go to work at least you get holidays then!!

I'm sure that's true but you obviously don't have the right surname then cause I know several in Wick, families all on the dole, all claiming to be looking after each other's ailments. That's what spoils it for real claimants.

_Ju_
05-Apr-11, 13:25
I'm all for stopping it too or putting a time limit on how long you get it for also for the amount of so called carers allowances that some families are all claiming for each other.

Carers allowance is an absolute pitance, especially when compred to what the care of that person would cost if not cared for by family. Carers are the largest money savers of social care.

Thumper
05-Apr-11, 13:28
It wouldnt work,plain and simple! Those of us who are on the dole that want to work will,those that dont want to will find a way around it just like everything else! I work voluntary and still get hassle about it,asking what I would do if I had an interview at the last minute etc,plain and simple because I am voluntary I can go to an interview at short notice no problem at all,but yet they still moan about me working,I have to provide loads of proof that i do it unpaid,and yet they ask people who have been out of work to do voluntarywork at homeaid etc so whats the difference? I dont want to sit on my ass everyday doing nothing and feeling worthless,signing on does that to you every 2 weeks as it is,but there are plenty who do want to saty unemployed,and they will find yet another way round it,while people who do try will be made to pick up the work they should do!x

annemarie482
05-Apr-11, 14:06
what really bugs me, is not the "stop gap" dole claimers between jobs who have paid into the system but the lazy lout on the dole with sky tv, driving a nice car, umpteen games consoles and wearing all the latest gear!!!
who's stopping them getting dole?! no one.

Vistravi
05-Apr-11, 14:21
Dunno bout the "nice car bit" but the rest rings true!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Chav_car.jpeg

rob murray
05-Apr-11, 14:21
what really bugs me, is not the "stop gap" dole claimers between jobs who have paid into the system but the lazy lout on the dole with sky tv, driving a nice car, umpteen games consoles and wearing all the latest gear!!!
who's stopping them getting dole?! no one.

Check out benefit rates, honestly, the only way the above can happen is if the people concerned are either criminals or working on the fly thus topping up benefits or have enormous families hence huge giros. If they work on the fly then the employer is equally guilty of screwing the system and should equally be open to prosecution as they are creating an uneven playing field in terms of business overheads and piling pressure on honest business people

sweetpea
05-Apr-11, 15:56
what really bugs me, is not the "stop gap" dole claimers between jobs who have paid into the system but the lazy lout on the dole with sky tv, driving a nice car, umpteen games consoles and wearing all the latest gear!!!
who's stopping them getting dole?! no one.

That's exactly what bugs me. I'm not interested in genuine cases or people who deserve the allowances such as real carers but those families where none work and raking it in. I see it all the time and I've seen how much they get every week and it makes me mad.
Also as someone mentioned Homeaid, that's a total joke. Nearly all of the staff are on New Deal, tripping over each other. How much money are Homeaid raking in every week from the JC and I'd like to see the figures for how many of them they actually employ instead of getting rid of them and getting new ones all the time, I'd bet it's a fortune.

rob murray
05-Apr-11, 16:36
That's exactly what bugs me. I'm not interested in genuine cases or people who deserve the allowances such as real carers but those families where none work and raking it in. I see it all the time and I've seen how much they get every week and it makes me mad.
Also as someone mentioned Homeaid, that's a total joke. Nearly all of the staff are on New Deal, tripping over each other. How much money are Homeaid raking in every week from the JC and I'd like to see the figures for how many of them they actually employ instead of getting rid of them and getting new ones all the time, I'd bet it's a fortune.

See my point above, please tell me how I can get my hands on all this free money, cars, designer clothes and games....

Shabbychic
05-Apr-11, 16:40
See my point above, please tell me how I can get my hands on all this free money, cars, designer clothes and games....

I'd like to know to. If you can get all this money oan the broo, where do we sign up?

sweetpea
05-Apr-11, 16:54
Yes Rob I know eactly what your saying, black market I think it used to be called. I've certainly seen a benefits statement for a family of 4 who have no intention of working are coining in £500 a week and rent free, brand new 11 plate mobilty car and carers allowances for each other.

Shabbychic
05-Apr-11, 16:59
Yes Rob I know eactly what your saying, black market I think it used to be called. I've certainly seen a benefits statement for a family of 4 who have no intention of working are coining in £500 a week and rent free, brand new 11 plate mobilty car and carers allowances for each other.

I think you are talking about a different issue altogether. You don't get carers allowance or mobility for being on the dole. I also don't think these would be mentioned on a single statement as they are paid separately from various departments.

david
05-Apr-11, 17:02
what really bugs me, is not the "stop gap" dole claimers between jobs who have paid into the system but the lazy lout on the dole with sky tv, driving a nice car, umpteen games consoles and wearing all the latest gear!!!
who's stopping them getting dole?! no one.

Well I have payed into the system for 24 years and on becoming unemployed can not claim a bean in benefits because of my pension which I was contributing at a rate of 11%. Compare this with immigrants who are entitled to full benefits having paid NI for a year-unbelievable.

sweetpea
05-Apr-11, 17:02
What I'm saying is a family of 4 receiving all of the above. I have seen a bundle of papers with all of these benefits totalling that amount.

rob murray
05-Apr-11, 17:50
See my point above, please tell me how I can get my hands on all this free money, cars, designer clothes and games....

Well how do I get my hands on the freebies...no one has spelled it out other than to point at higher rate disability / mobility benefits which as an able bodied person I cant get, I do know that as a single adult signing on / fit for and looking for work, I will get c £64.00, my rent paid, council tax paid but I have to pay my water rates myself, pay for electricity / food etc...nah....thats the absolute bread line !!!!

david
05-Apr-11, 18:02
Well I have payed into the system for 24 years and on becoming unemployed can not claim a bean in benefits because of my pension which I was contributing at a rate of 11%. Compare this with immigrants who are entitled to full benefits having paid NI for a year-unbelievable.


Mmm, seems the law has changed this month-full benefits after 3 months now!!

oldmarine
05-Apr-11, 19:01
Stopping dole money. Does that mean those who are able should go to work? Work appears to be a lost art that is rapidly losing its flavor.

Doreen
05-Apr-11, 20:01
annemarie i know how you feel i work day and nights my husband works 12 hours a day 7 days a week we pay loads of tax and the people that dont get of ther backsides have more than us Mmm annoying my daughter is just going of to collage in perth soon and as any parents wants is for them to go far its going to cost us a fortune but i want the best for my kids but to see people sat not even looking for work and being better of than us .

squidge
06-Apr-11, 00:13
Sweetpea what is your gripe? Is it that they are getting £500 per week? The papers will include a monetary value for housing benefit, council tax benefit and the higher rate disability benefits some of which they will give up to get a motability car. So are you saying these people are not ill or disabled or carers in which case they are thieves and should be reported as such. Or are you saying that they are sick disabled and carers but £500 is too much for them to be paid? If so what do you want to stop? Housing benefit perhaps? Let them get I to rent arrears and lose their home? The motability car maybe? We have surely done that benefit to death on this forum. Let's take the carers allowance away and send in someone to do the caring instead. You wouldn't get much caring for the pittance that the carers allowance is. Remember carers save money for the taxpayer. How about the income support? Or the child benefit, maybe they should have known that they were going to be sick and not burdened themselves and us, the taxpayer, with children they should have known they couldn't afford.

Finally, I would love to have £500 per week but would I swap my health for it?no thanks! Next time you chat with them ask if they would rather be sick disabled and reliant on benefits or healthy fit and able to work.

chaz
06-Apr-11, 08:26
Sweetpea what is your gripe? Is it that they are getting £500 per week? The papers will include a monetary value for housing benefit, council tax benefit and the higher rate disability benefits some of which they will give up to get a motability car. So are you saying these people are not ill or disabled or carers in which case they are thieves and should be reported as such. Or are you saying that they are sick disabled and carers but £500 is too much for them to be paid? If so what do you want to stop? Housing benefit perhaps? Let them get I to rent arrears and lose their home? The motability car maybe? We have surely done that benefit to death on this forum. Let's take the carers allowance away and send in someone to do the caring instead. You wouldn't get much caring for the pittance that the carers allowance is. Remember carers save money for the taxpayer. How about the income support? Or the child benefit, maybe they should have known that they were going to be sick and not burdened themselves and us, the taxpayer, with children they should have known they couldn't afford.

Finally, I would love to have £500 per week but would I swap my health for it?no thanks! Next time you chat with them ask if they would rather be sick disabled and reliant on benefits or healthy fit and able to work.

I get nothing like that amount and given the choice i would rather have a healthy son who i knew would grow up well and able to work and do things other people do, its heartbreaking being a carer at times, but people just see carers as lazy they dont see the full picture.And god forbid that any of these individuals ever become ill or have to care for a relative as most think it will never happen to them!!

sweetpea
06-Apr-11, 09:35
Sweetpea what is your gripe? Is it that they are getting £500 per week? The papers will include a monetary value for housing benefit, council tax benefit and the higher rate disability benefits some of which they will give up to get a motability car. So are you saying these people are not ill or disabled or carers in which case they are thieves and should be reported as such. Or are you saying that they are sick disabled and carers but £500 is too much for them to be paid? If so what do you want to stop? Housing benefit perhaps? Let them get I to rent arrears and lose their home? The motability car maybe? We have surely done that benefit to death on this forum. Let's take the carers allowance away and send in someone to do the caring instead. You wouldn't get much caring for the pittance that the carers allowance is. Remember carers save money for the taxpayer. How about the income support? Or the child benefit, maybe they should have known that they were going to be sick and not burdened themselves and us, the taxpayer, with children they should have known they couldn't afford.

Finally, I would love to have £500 per week but would I swap my health for it?no thanks! Next time you chat with them ask if they would rather be sick disabled and reliant on benefits or healthy fit and able to work.

I think if you check you will see I already said I wasn't talking about genuine cases. I know there are people out there who need a lot more help than they are getting. What I am talking about is 3rd and 4th generation claimants with no intention of ever working.

squidge
06-Apr-11, 09:58
The example you discussed was a family who are receiving disability benefits. They do not need to have an intention to work because they are sick or disabled. Even if they wanted to work they may very well not be able to do so. If you are talking about 3rd and 4th generation unemployed people that would mean you KNOW that their parents, grandparents and possibly great grandparents did not work and did not want to work. How old are you sweetpea?

Children from families where there is no one working need special help to ensure they are given the EXPECTATION of work from an early age. It is a disadvantage to be from a workless household and there is research which shows for example that children born to single teenage mums are more likely to go on to be teenage mums themselves and therefore reliant on benefits. But it's more likely not definitely will and finding the key that changes the perpetuation of life on benefit is difficult but bot surmountable.

I'm not getting at you sweetpea but at the sweeping statements that people make which don't stand up to scrutiny. You suggest you KNOW people claiming benefits today whose great grandparents you KNOW were lazy idle scroungers who did not want to work. I can't see how you know that with 'the certainty you suggest.

sweetpea
06-Apr-11, 11:20
I do know because at one time I worked with the family in trying to get their child to get a job, that's how I know. And every obstacle was put in their way by that family so that they would not progress into employment.
This is only one example and I have seen countless others in this county.
As someone said they carry a walking stick yet can put up sheds, mow grass and do all other manner of manual labour but just not for a wage.

Blondie
06-Apr-11, 11:27
yeah they can also spend a lot of time in the Camps bar drinking and they all seem to be able to afford to smoke as well, as you will see any time you pass the door.
How can that be?
I can't afford to smoke or spend time every day drinking in a bar and my husband works full time in a good job!

sweetpea
06-Apr-11, 11:31
These people make a career out of claiming, that's their job! They would probably make good JC advisers as they know the system inside out and back to front. If people think they don't exist then they need their eyes tested.

Kells
06-Apr-11, 11:48
These people make a career out of claiming, that's their job! They would probably make good JC advisers as they know the system inside out and back to front. If people think they don't exist then they need their eyes tested.

You say you know that these poeple are stealing so why have you not reported them.

sweetpea
06-Apr-11, 11:49
Because the job centre advisers know it as well that's why!!! the whole town knows it!

sweetpea
06-Apr-11, 11:52
anyway Kells how do you know I haven't tried to do something about it in the past and the answers I was given? by the job centre staff I must add.

Kells
06-Apr-11, 12:00
Because the job centre advisers know it as well that's why!!! the whole town knows it!
You do not report misuse of the system by reporting it to the job centre advisers, but if they know about this and doing nothing about it then report them as well. Lift the phone. The whole town knows ...... most poeple are too busy getting on with their own lives to notice what others are doing.

sweetpea
06-Apr-11, 12:03
At one time I worked right in the thick of it that's why I know and seeing them still going about in this way. I'm not going to do their job for them, they know what's going on, they are getting paid to deal with it not me. If people are happy to know that certain families are milking it then fine.

Kells
06-Apr-11, 12:04
Because if they are making fraudulant claims and have been reported then they would have been investigaed ...... obviously reported to the wrong people. try lifting the phone

Kells
06-Apr-11, 12:13
At one time I worked right in the thick of it that's why I know and seeing them still going about in this way. I'm not going to do their job for them, they know what's going on, they are getting paid to deal with it not me. If people are happy to know that certain families are milking it then fine.

Working in the thick of what? The centre staff have a job to do and do it well but if you have a complaint about abuse of the system you should know it is not them you complain too. Lift the phone to the right poeple and it is investigated ..... simple but if you are happy to think that others are milking the system then why whine about it.

sweetpea
06-Apr-11, 12:24
I'm not whining as you put it just stating what I know to be facts. It was reported at the time to their JC adviser. I was told ' I know but there's nothing I can do about it' end off. If anyone should be reporting them it's the JC people.

Kells
06-Apr-11, 12:49
I'm not whining as you put it just stating what I know to be facts. It was reported at the time to their JC adviser. I was told ' I know but there's nothing I can do about it' end off. If anyone should be reporting them it's the JC people.

There is nothing the JC people can do, report it to this number 0800 854 440 and do mention that you reported it previously with full details.

brandy
06-Apr-11, 13:13
like others have said, i would give anything to have a child that does not need 24/7 care.
in fact, just to be able to stay up here where i think that both my boys will have the best care and upbringing,
i have decided to go into business for myself.. now that means i am going to loose my carers allowance.. which btw.. is not much to begin with.
but i will gladly scrimp and save.. to make sure my boys have the best i can give them.
that does not mean.. the latest game and toy.. but.. clean air, a good community, great care in their needs and lots of love.

squidge
07-Apr-11, 17:34
This is exactly what I was talking about. I know, you know, we all know, crikey....the whole town knows and yet no one does anything about it. Even the jobcentre staff know about it but can't do anything about it.

If you know then you phone the number. If people are defrauding the system then they are dishonest and must be reported and if the whole town knows then the whole town should be queuing up to make that phone call. What it doesn't mean is that benefits should be taken awAy from those that need them and neither should people be labelled as scroungers because some are dishonest.

theone
07-Apr-11, 18:22
This is exactly what I was talking about. I know, you know, we all know, crikey....the whole town knows and yet no one does anything about it. Even the jobcentre staff know about it but can't do anything about it.


I know somebody who works in the council housing office and they are regularly "reminded" by the undesirables of their address and car type/registration. With this sort of intimidation, these "customers" normally get what they want.

I'm pretty sure those working in the benefits office will get the same.

Kells
07-Apr-11, 20:49
I know somebody who works in the council housing office and they are regularly "reminded" by the undesirables of their address and car type/registration. With this sort of intimidation, these "customers" normally get what they want.

I'm pretty sure those working in the benefits office will get the same.


This is why there is a phone number, it is not fair to expect anyone to put up with indimidation. They will be investigated and not even know it has happened and certianly will not know who has reported them.

squidge
07-Apr-11, 21:34
I know somebody who works in the council housing office and they are regularly "reminded" by the undesirables of their address and car type/registration. With this sort of intimidation, these "customers" normally get what they want.

I'm pretty sure those working in the benefits office will get the same.

I would be surprised. I cant recall a single incident of harrassment or intimidation In fact in all the time i worked in the jobcentres and benefit offices I can recall only one incident where I was alarmed enough to ask someone to walk me to my car. "Ill follow you home and burgle your house" was the threat and the man came back the following day to apologise for his behaviour and that was in an office in Manchester. People generally kick off because you are their last hope in jobs like that. And lets face it, most of the people who work in places like Wick have grown up and lived in Caithness the whole of their lives. Im quite sure they dont get intimidated easily. Cant see it preventing a night on the town!

Use the anonymous helpline and if you are not prepared to report it then you are condoning it.

Doreen
07-Apr-11, 21:48
This is why there is a phone number, it is not fair to expect anyone to put up with indimidation. They will be investigated and not even know it has happened and certianly will not know who has reported them.I work so does my husband and i even have gone through vollutery training to help people that needs assistance probably on call all night but then you get those people that love sitting doing nowt no i am not giving myself praise i just want to give a bit in the community because i have been ill and always been given all the care .:D

golach
07-Apr-11, 22:09
Use the anonymous helpline and if you are not prepared to report it then you are condoning it.

Well said Squidge, but I doubt many on this thread will have the inclination to do so, so I agree, they are condoning it.

rich
07-Apr-11, 22:16
First of all, choose your malady that makes it impossible to work. Lower back injuries are best for this because diagnosis is just about impossible. Schizophrenic alcoholism is once I just made up but it should work. (I'm currently working on it.) How you dress is important. If you are visiting your physician or orthopedist and it is a sweltering summer day then wear a long tweed coat and pile on a couple of filthy old sweaters. Going barefoot definitely helps. So does falling over. You should be able to practice that at home. Whoops sorry...fallen over again...It's really quite easy. COntrary to what some people believe acute alcoholism does not work. Acute alcoholism is referrable; it is a genuine disease. So you have to be careful here, you dont want to get sectioned or placed in a mental hospital. So you need to suggest you are in fact mad. Nobody who is mad ever gets locked up - just look at the inhabitants of Wick (Scary isn't it). I would like to thank Rob for introducing a truly helpful thread. One final word. SMOKE SMOKE SMOKE - and then see the do-gooders recoil in horror - "must get rid of this chap before the second hand smoke does me in." Of course there is never enough money to be disbersed. May I suggest you take up betting on horse races. I have some hot tips for you...

sweetpea
07-Apr-11, 23:34
I would be surprised. I cant recall a single incident of harrassment or intimidation In fact in all the time i worked in the jobcentres and benefit offices I can recall only one incident where I was alarmed enough to ask someone to walk me to my car. "Ill follow you home and burgle your house" was the threat and the man came back the following day to apologise for his behaviour and that was in an office in Manchester. People generally kick off because you are their last hope in jobs like that. And lets face it, most of the people who work in places like Wick have grown up and lived in Caithness the whole of their lives. Im quite sure they dont get intimidated easily. Cant see it preventing a night on the town!

Use the anonymous helpline and if you are not prepared to report it then you are condoning it.

So that#ll be why they have glass screens and security guards in these places then.

theone
08-Apr-11, 08:37
I would be surprised. I cant recall a single incident of harrassment or intimidation In fact in all the time i worked in the jobcentres and benefit offices I can recall only one incident where I was alarmed enough to ask someone to walk me to my car. "Ill follow you home and burgle your house" was the threat and the man came back the following day to apologise for his behaviour and that was in an office in Manchester. People generally kick off because you are their last hope in jobs like that. And lets face it, most of the people who work in places like Wick have grown up and lived in Caithness the whole of their lives. Im quite sure they dont get intimidated easily. Cant see it preventing a night on the town!

Use the anonymous helpline and if you are not prepared to report it then you are condoning it.

I can only pass on what I've been told by somebody I trust.

I actually think that the problem would be worse in a place like Wick, where it is far more likely that the claimant knows the worker, knows their house/car etc.

It is worth noting though that these are to do with housing demands, not benefits, so the helpline is irrelevant and I am not condoning anything!

squidge
08-Apr-11, 14:23
So that#ll be why they have glass screens and security guards in these places then.

Jobcentres havent had screens since the bubbly orange days of the 70s. Unemployment Benefit Offices were screened up until the 90s and when they integrated JObcentres and UBOs they removed screens. There was a big debate on the issue and many staff wanted to keep the screens but they were removed. Initially many staff thought that violent incidents would rise but this did not happen at that time and in fact many staff enjoyed working in an open plan office rather than a screened environment.

With the arrival of JobcentrePlus the discussion about screens versus unscreened offices raised its head. The offices now are largely unscreened with a screened area where finance payments are made and where I believe Social fund interviews and adverse decisions are made. The staff in Jobcentres do face violent and aggressive behaviour and it would be foolish to suggest otherwise, but they are the place of last resort for many people and as such people are often desperate and anguished. Whist this does not excuse aggressive behaviour it does offer explanations for it.

Security Guards are another issue entirely, JobcentrePlus does not encourage casual callers and so its part of that. They also provide a useful support in cases of violence or aggressive behaviour.

So sweetpea you are technically right but its less dramatic than your post might suggest. The offices are open plan with a screened area which is used for more difficult clients. Also I would expect it to be less of a problem in Wick than elsewhere, not more. Although as a member of staff you are known to the clients, the vast majority of them are nice people, people like you or me, people who might be your mum, brother or son...good people. In addition many of the staff in the offices have probably worked there for a long time and have grown up with people they are seeing, its easier to be aggressive to someone you dont know rather than someone who your mum chats with in tescos when they bump into each other.

The best defence against aggressive behaviour is to do a good job to the best of your ability and not to be put in a difficult position by faceless people in a call centre in Glasgow who cant seem to get things right. I am sure the staff in the Jobcentres in Caithness work hard to be fair and treat people with respect and to do their best to help the people they see. I would be surprised and disappointed if that was not the case. However how difficult must it be when employers might just have the same attitude that we see displayed here - On benefits????? then they must be wasters and scroungers and not given a chance.

sweetpea
08-Apr-11, 16:56
I'm not being dramatic at all Squidge just stating what is true. And there have been cases of JC staff being attacked, albeit maybe not in Wick but when money is involved people can get stupid. Even the presence of the guard can make some folk get their hackles up. Last time I was in the guard made it pretty clear I wasn't to step off the lino onto the carpet. The old SS office at the back of the JC in Wick had a screen and that's certainly within the last 10 years.

I agree with you that not all claimants are wasters, nowhere have I said that but there are pockets of them here who probably do spoil it for others in this small community. I know employers are fed up with being sent people for interviews and new deal placements who make it clear they don't want to be there but need to because if not their money will be stopped. In one case I know where someone went to a placement having deliberately not washed themselves or their clothes and using bad language all the time and the employer after repeatedly telling them had to terminate the placement. So for me scroungers do exist.

squidge
08-Apr-11, 17:30
I'll agree that there are people who fiddle the system. They are not scroungers they are thieves. I also agree that there are people who do not want to work but they are a tiny minority. If you look at the figures to see how many unemployed people have been claiming jobseekers allowance over 6 months in wick and Thurso you will see that there were 60 in Thurso and 80 in Wick. That's 1.4% and 2% of the population of working age in each town respectively. Surely not all the people claiming over 6 months are scroungers or layabouts, so it's much less therefore than 80 people. I can't say but I would hazard a guess that maybe 25 people are long long long long term claimants and some of Them will still want to work.

It's easy to get carried away by the political hype of scroungers getting something for nothing but the numbers don't add up to hoarded of people laughing up their sleeves at us hard working people for being stupid.