View Full Version : London Cuts Demonstration
Tubthumper
26-Mar-11, 18:48
I'm watching helicopter pictures of a branch of Santander getting trashed. What I'm seeing is 6 goons in hoodies smashing the window, about 100 'photographers' milling around outside.
Strikes me that the best way to stop such vandalistic buffoonery is to remove the cameras from the area. The 'rioters' are either doing it for the coverage, or they're being paid by the ones getting the pictures. Either way, it's a bit of an embarrassment for all concerned.
Absolutely disgusting again. The banners said no cuts! Idiots! Where have they been? Not on this planet. And who is paying for 4500 police necessary and now the cleanup afterwards?
Me, thats who!:mad:
I'll give you a few quid to ease the burden.
I'd rather live with the cuts which are a result of what happened on OUR watch, than continually blame everyone else, and leave those ever-increasing debts to my kids and grandkids.
Not our watch? It wasn't only the bankers, the government and the corporates - it was our greed to pick up the easy credit and the never-never land we were happy to live in, and the necessity to collect a vast array of pretty non-essential material goods.
We used to educate - reading, writing and arithmetic. And, along the line, both at home and in the classroom, we taught CONSEQUENCES.
We appear to be teaching less of the first three, and none of the last one.
No cuts?
I think not.......
Of course there will be some who have lived blameless lives, on little money, and sometimes under great hardship. These we should support - governmentally, socially, and individually.
But not the whingers who deny it's at all anything to do with them!
I'll give you a few quid to ease the burden.
Ta..........:D
Our glorious leaders should develop a special, extra cut just to pay for this demo, that will teach them [evil]
What's happened here is a group of troublemakers causing criminal damage because they want to.
What they are doing has nothing to do with the main protest whatsover. If the protest had been to do with petrol prices they would have been there too.
I'd like to think these people will be caught and punished. But I won't hold my breath.
I do wonder if the usual tabloids will report "whites/christians in violent protest" on monday ;)
Oh well, quite a few thousand quid spent on overtime alone, for the coppers - looks like an overnight job, add the clean up and it's a huge sum that the tax payers will have to pay.
'Protestors', my arse, they are anarchists out to cause as much mayhem and damage as possible, knowing full well that when arrested will be dealt with at a magistrates court; where they will be fined a few quid, and sent on their way, by some naive prat of a JP..
OK so the TUC decides to hold a rally in London, (Honest - they did! you might not have realised it, but it's true).. did they not realise that it would be hijacked?
Anarchists aren't going to approach the Chief Constable of the Met and ask "can we please have a rally sir" - nope, just wait for someone else to have one and tag on, walk a bit, then sod off and cause chaos..
Answer? maybe magistrates with a bi of backbone who'll give em a couple of months in nick. Like that pratt who threw that extinguisher at 'the last one', a good beak there...
In my day.......Bah humbug
I'm watching helicopter pictures of a branch of Santander getting trashed. What I'm seeing is 6 goons in hoodies smashing the window, about 100 'photographers' milling around outside.
Strikes me that the best way to stop such vandalistic buffoonery is to remove the cameras from the area. The 'rioters' are either doing it for the coverage, or they're being paid by the ones getting the pictures. Either way, it's a bit of an embarrassment for all concerned.
Here here tubthumper
Those folk came prepared - completely masked and gloved so no DNA and nothing recognisable other than their eyes if seen. They are just vandals and criminals - turn the hoses on them
Well said Tubs
If you have a look through this thread you can see how easy it is for a comparatively small group of people to destroy the focus of a much larger demonstration. In the same way as the larger protest also chooses to ignore what is being done for the greater good.
A question of selective - or maybe even elective - blindness......?
billmoseley
27-Mar-11, 11:39
the worst thing about the thugs who took over the rally is that they took away from the well organised rally that the unions had arranged and worked closely with the police over. now whether you agree with the cuts or not we all have the right to demonstrate. i hope the tuc and other unions come out firmly to condemn what was done by these mindless thugs
Tubthumper
27-Mar-11, 13:12
i hope the tuc and other unions come out firmly to condemn what was done by these mindless thugs
And the photographers!
Don't know if anyone else saw it on BBC, but these riots have absolutely nothing to do with public cuts:
"1341: Libyan state TV has an original take on the march in London against government spending cuts. A screen caption reads: "Tens of thousands of British citizens out in mass protests now in front of the British House of Commons condemning the colonialist, crusader aggression against the Libyan Great Jamahiriyah."
So there..
tonkatojo
27-Mar-11, 13:52
Don't know if anyone else saw it on BBC, but these riots have absolutely nothing to do with public cuts:
"1341: Libyan state TV has an original take on the march in London against government spending cuts. A screen caption reads: "Tens of thousands of British citizens out in mass protests now in front of the British House of Commons condemning the colonialist, crusader aggression against the Libyan Great Jamahiriyah."
So there..
Yet another "glorious leader" has taken the initiative eh ducati ?. Not much difference in my eyes our government is acting like dictators as well, the vast majority did not give them a mandate for what is happening, just deceit and false promises is what were getting.
the worst thing about the thugs who took over the rally is that they took away from the well organised rally that the unions had arranged and worked closely with the police over. now whether you agree with the cuts or not we all have the right to demonstrate. i hope the tuc and other unions come out firmly to condemn what was done by these mindless thugs
Everyone seems to make statements 'Condemning' these people, but no one does anything about it other than the Police.
The Thugs should be ostracised by those at the rally. If there were 250,000 genuine people and a few hundred thugs I am sure something could have been done.....Happens all over....Legit groups, particularly the Unions seem to acquiesce to this type of behaviour.
Tubthumper
27-Mar-11, 14:09
Sandy, I agree that those running the march should prepare for thuggery, and those taking part should be prepared to defend their march, possibly by performing a 'citizen's arrest' on those causing havoc, and handing them over to the Police.
I can see it being difficult to execute though.
Saturday’s march or demonstration was months in the planning with the organisers and the police working together to ensure everything went according to plan. The anarchist groups had their own agenda and the police were undoubtedly aware of this. It is their decision as to how best to address this issue.
For the majority of participants it was a successful day out and they made their feelings known.
It would be a gross breach of our civil liberty and damaging to democracy if every march or demonstration were to be banned because a small minority were hell bent on causing problems.
It could be argued that the number of photographers at the scenes of vandalism was providing the anarchists with the oxygen of publicity. But on the other hand their photographs could be used as evidence to identify and prosecute the offenders.
Sandy, I agree that those running the march should prepare for thuggery, and those taking part should be prepared to defend their march, possibly by performing a 'citizen's arrest' on those causing havoc, and handing them over to the Police.
I can see it being difficult to execute though.
In Toronto recently at the G20/G7 Summit we had serious problems with this type of thing...
Most people were peaceful, but again a group of Thugs, dressed in black caused much damage..What surprised many people was that the trouble makers, were hidden within a large group of so called peaceful demonstrators as they marched in Downtown Toronto. (Pictures show the agitators with a ring of the 'so called good people' around them). In actual fact they were being protected by the so called 'Peaceniks'. When they got to a certain location these Thugs left the protectionist group, and caused severe damage/ Police cars set on fire, looting etc etc.
So I just wonder how 'peaceful' these oranizers are.....
When I worked in London......The TUC had their goons!!!
But everyone comes out and 'condemns' this type of antics, but no one really does anything about it.
I was in the Anti Vietnam riots on London in the late 60's early 70's, and it just seems to be a set up for a free for all!
Yes, Citizens arrests would not be the way to go with this type of situation. It's just so very sad that this continues to be the way these demonstrations end up.
Tubthumper
27-Mar-11, 16:01
It could be argued that the number of photographers at the scenes of vandalism was providing the anarchists with the oxygen of publicity. But on the other hand their photographs could be used as evidence to identify and prosecute the offenders.
I wonder who these 'photographers' actually are? After all, the only things you need are a camera and a rucksack. Maybe most of them just want to get involved but haven't the bottle to actually smash the windows.
I also wonder how many of the 'anarchists' come from underprivileged backgrounds (ie they've actually got something to complain about).
oldmarine
27-Mar-11, 17:05
I'm watching helicopter pictures of a branch of Santander getting trashed. What I'm seeing is 6 goons in hoodies smashing the window, about 100 'photographers' milling around outside.
Strikes me that the best way to stop such vandalistic buffoonery is to remove the cameras from the area. The 'rioters' are either doing it for the coverage, or they're being paid by the ones getting the pictures. Either way, it's a bit of an embarrassment for all concerned.
There are people who like to act in front of cameras. This one may be no different. Tubthumper may have a valid point.
Yet another "glorious leader" has taken the initiative eh ducati ?. Not much difference in my eyes our government is acting like dictators as well, the vast majority did not give them a mandate for what is happening, just deceit and false promises is what were getting.
How is "terribly sorry folks but because of the kybosh made by the last lot and being no money an everything, there will have to be loads of cuts". deceit and false promises?
It could be argued that the number of photographers at the scenes of vandalism was providing the anarchists with the oxygen of publicity. But on the other hand their photographs could be used as evidence to identify and prosecute the offenders.
I think the former is closer to the truth.
But the photographers are only there because the "market" for such pictures is far more lucrative than for pictures of the vast majority protesting peacefully.
What we get fed on the news and in the papers is what the producers and editors think will "sell".
Hype and scaremongering. Not the news.
Tubthumper
27-Mar-11, 22:21
Fortnum & Mason, that bastion of Britishness, got occupied by hooligans intent on highlighting the company's 'tax-efficient' financial arrangements, ie they avoid paying UK tax where they can. Meaning that, like Tesco and many other UK companies, they don't make the contribution they should to running this country. The same applies to many well-off individuals as well.
Is it fair to say that if you operate or live in the UK, you should be paying the UK tax you're due and not hiding money away in tax-efficient offshore/ Swiss/ Bermudan bank accounts? Perhaps if everyone paid what they should, 'our' deficit would soon disappear.
The student/anarchists apparently got it wrong!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/georgepitcher/100081450/fortnum-and-mason-just-the-most-stupid-target-for-those-student-rioters-to-pick/
Tubthumper
27-Mar-11, 22:38
Fair one PMCD. F&M's stayed open throughout; I can just picture the scene in the tea-room, like the reception in Carry On Up The Khyber!
However, I think the point about tax evasion efficiency for companies and individuals is a fair one, bearing in mind our current financial crisis. What do other orgers think?
The student/anarchists apparently got it wrong!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/georgepitcher/100081450/fortnum-and-mason-just-the-most-stupid-target-for-those-student-rioters-to-pick/
Made very good reading - wonder if UKuncut feel a bit stupid (they certainly look it now)
Aaldtimer
28-Mar-11, 03:39
From what I gather from news reports, the protesters at F&M were of the more orderly of them. These of course are the ones that the police could handle easily, and IIRC 145 of them have been charged. Not the one's who were causing mayhem on the streets![disgust]
tonkatojo
28-Mar-11, 11:50
How is "terribly sorry folks but because of the kybosh made by the last lot and being no money an everything, there will have to be loads of cuts". deceit and false promises?
The deceit and false promises try these " Cameron I pledge " Clegg I pledge " and now Clegg doesn't even know his chancellor is cutting winter payments, is this deceit on the Tory side or Clegg's in competence ?.
weezer 316
28-Mar-11, 12:04
Fortnum & Mason, that bastion of Britishness, got occupied by hooligans intent on highlighting the company's 'tax-efficient' financial arrangements, ie they avoid paying UK tax where they can. Meaning that, like Tesco and many other UK companies, they don't make the contribution they should to running this country. The same applies to many well-off individuals as well.
Is it fair to say that if you operate or live in the UK, you should be paying the UK tax you're due and not hiding money away in tax-efficient offshore/ Swiss/ Bermudan bank accounts? Perhaps if everyone paid what they should, 'our' deficit would soon disappear.
lol. Would pull in a few billion no doubt, still need about £140bn a year every year extra. Any ideas beyond tax the rich more which thankfully wont happen?
LOL, LAWL, ROFL... so much fail in this thread: Torygraph links, ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments. To much to refute, I'm tapping out I'm not qualified to deal with this particular level of stupidity.
I think I'm just going to get some popcorn and watch, that and play some ideological bingo (bit like buzzword bingo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzzword_bingo)).
I'm also going to leave this right here, a sort of primer for rational discussions:
http://i.imgur.com/vhxt7.jpg
weezer 316
28-Mar-11, 13:48
Nice grapic. I reckon you email it to a few on here.
Dear RecQuery,
Thanks for pointing out the degrees of "stupidity" you have encountered from various contributors. I think I can speak for many of my co -respondents in thinking that we must all have been so lucky to have made it so far in life, given the foolishness and ignorance in which we so clearly have been thus far submerged. On behalf of them all I humbly apologise for living life as a sentient human being, and not a real logical thinker, such as yourself.
I also apologise for the ennui that you and one or two others have had to suffer, as we lesser mortals (along with many minds much greater than our own, but lesser, of course, than yours) struggle like base ants in the sands below your summit of supreme arbitration as to what should constitute truth, debate, logic, rational thought, and all other considerations far beyond our ken.
It must be so utterly boring and facile not to have really great minds with which to engage. The only good thing (for you as a person) about the present situation is that you are superior enough not to have considered the arrogance of your stated position.
How DARE you set out the rules of debate? Who gave you the monitor's badge? People debate to set out (and occasionally adjust) their opinions - they do not enter the fray to be told HOW to think, debate, opine, confront, or agree.
In the meantime, I hope you enjoy what I think will only be the temporary occupation of your sterile eyrie. You may find, in the end, that the real and not so rational world is a very fine place in which to live, love, laugh and embrace.
By the way, your "How To Debate" chart, if the successful end is reached in one area, means that there is no further debate on that given topic. Ever. So one by one the doors close. Eventually all doors are closed. Unless, of course......!
weezer 316
28-Mar-11, 14:47
"How DARE you set out the rules of debate? Who gave you the monitor's badge? People debate to set out (and occasionally adjust) their opinions - they do not enter the fray to be told HOW to think, debate, opine, confront, or agree."
I'm gonna get a shirt printed with this on it. Its probably the most ridiculous thing I have read on this forum and I have spent the last 3 weeks arguing with people who believe in religion!
You, amazingly, manage to chastise the other poster for dictating what constitutes a debate and why they enter said debate, before doing exactly the same thing!
For the record, I entered it to be told how to think and hear other peoples opinions and see if we can reach agreement. Therefore "How DARE you set out the rules of debate" as you so eloquently put it.
Can we get back on topic now? Anyone got ideas of how to save £150bn a year or are we all going to resort to the old "tax the rich/slag the govt for trying" mantra?
Weezer -
I bow to your superior knowledge. If you peer carefully, I don't dictate terms for all regarding methods of debate. I merely point out what most people do when they have a discussion. I rejoice that there are many ways of debating. Ones that do NOT involve pseudo-intellectual bullying of others
Your preferred style of debate, for example, is simply to repeat the mantra that everybody who disagrees with you is "deluded". Takes the fun out of it after a while. Makes it a bit "fail" and "ridiculous" and "boring". Also, dare I say it, a bit "wha'ever".
Glad you bit, though. "If the cap fits", what?
AND to get back on track. If the population at large, and the government, got back to the "household budget" system of income/outgoings, we'd be sorted in a very short but painful time. Unfortunately, human nature gets in the way. Deal with it.
weezer 316
28-Mar-11, 15:25
Weezer -
I bow to your superior knowledge. If you peer carefully, I don't dictate terms for all regarding methods of debate. I merely point out what most people do when they have a discussion. I rejoice that there are many ways of debating. Ones that do NOT involve pseudo-intellectual bullying of others
Your preferred style of debate, for example, is simply to repeat the mantra that everybody who disagrees with you is "deluded". Takes the fun out of it after a while. Makes it a bit "fail" and "ridiculous" and "boring". Also, dare I say it, a bit "wha'ever".
Glad you bit, though. "If the cap fits", what?
AND to get back on track. If the population at large, and the government, got back to the "household budget" system of income/outgoings, we'd be sorted in a very short but painful time. Unfortunately, human nature gets in the way. Deal with it.
Evidently. How you view "People debate to set out (and occasionally adjust) their opinions - they do not enter the fray to be told HOW to think, debate, opine, confront, or agree." as anything other than stating the framework for which a debate is taking place and why a person even entered it is anyones guess. You dont happen to believe in god to do you?
Could you elaborate on household budgeting in terms of how the government could adopt it? I agree millions of people in this country live beyond their means but I am unsure how you would apply household budgeting to a government. Please explain?
Household budgeting is simple. Money coming in, over a reasonable term, should equate with, or be slightly greater than, money going out. The government needs to take more from us, or spend less, to balance the books. Mrs Thatcher attempted, with some success, to do this during her time. Sadly, it hurts, and hurts bad when the legacy of "socialism" has to be paid for, as it invariably does.
Unfortunately it is one of the few ways in which this country can hope to leave a halfway decent world for our children and theirs, and beyond.
Equally unfortunately, most of us don't really understand the meaning of the word "consequences", and rarely see beyond our own close needs.
So we try to invent schemes and dreams whereby we can spend money without actually ever earning it.
Not a safe platform from which to operate in the short term, and utterly toxic in the longer term.
Weezer - I've solved the problem of God. He does exist. He is, in fact you. Because you know everything. (Well, more than the rest of us, who are all "deluded"). And because of that, I am now an atheist. So you've won.
weezer 316
28-Mar-11, 16:15
Ironic that you say I called you deluded (I didnt) for disagreeing with me yet delve into patronising stuff like calling me god. I suppose I will now have to pretend I am mortal and say.....incredibly.....I completely agree with your points on the economics of this country. Totally agree we need to tax basic earners like myself more and spend less on services. We are the ones who consume these and should pay for them.
As for thatcher, I agree she was what we needed at the time. We would be a European Argentina today if we had carried on the way we were hemorrhaging cash.
Now you better get down on your hands and knees and beg forgiveness for the next year for trying to insult me or I will zap your ass all the way to Laos-like commie hell
Spoken like a real human after all! I now believe in you (but am going easy on the worship bit!)
Now that is quite a way of getting one's point across.
No sense in mincing words eh! I like it when it gets lively.........
Tubthumper
28-Mar-11, 16:42
LOL, LAWL, ROFL... so much fail in this thread: Torygraph links, ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments. To much to refute, I'm tapping out I'm not qualified to deal with this particular level of stupidity.
What's this, Tchyoub Bingo?:confused
I must have missed something . Can you do us a wee favour RecQuery and clarify what your problem is please?
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