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Shabbychic
28-Feb-11, 14:40
Apparently, the census this year has a section on whether you can read, write or speak Scots.

This site (http://www.ayecan.com/) will test you.

So, bar the local born and breds.....can you speak Scots?

sandyr1
28-Feb-11, 16:05
I Came to Canada in the 1971. In the early 90's I had to call CTV. (Canadian TV) in Toronto about an important news story they had messed up.
I was put on hold for the 'Senior News Writer' and after I ranted a bit to him about the wrong emphasis being placed on certain parts of the story....His comment was.....wait for it........
Are Yee a Durty Weeker? He repeated same and said some funny things!
He was a man called George Mackenzie from I think the Keiss area and born in Strathhalladale! Just strange at that time. He had been here since the early 60's!
Became friends and of course celebrated Burns, New Year etc with Scotch!....
Can you imagine...I was from Lybster!

Torvaig
28-Feb-11, 16:27
Yis ah can speak Scots; weel 'e Caithness dialect wiz fit ah wiz brocht up way. 'E Caithness dialect can vary fae district til district an' hid wisna 'til ah went til Weik High School at ah became aware o' a' 'e differences.

Way were encouraged 'til speak a wee bit "politer" as way called 'id when 'e leks o' 'e minister or doctor came til caal or when way were at 'e school an' spoke til 'e teacher.

Ah dinna ken if ye'll fin many "incomers" at can speak 'e Caithness dialect great; ye hev til be boarn tilid!

No winder 'e census is costan' so muckle when thur askan' questions lek 'is! Fa thocht 'at wan up? :roll:

theone
28-Feb-11, 17:15
The "Scots" language to me is just proof that those in central Scotland think the country stops at Perth.

To me it's just a dialect. No different to Doric.

But it is reassuring to know that in this time of public service cuts and school closures the Scottish Parliament can afford to translate their webpage into this "language". http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/vli/language/scots/index.htm

Beat Bug
28-Feb-11, 17:31
Is féidir liom a thuiscint an chuid is mó den am!

theone
28-Feb-11, 17:39
Is féidir liom a thuiscint an chuid is mó den am!

That's Gaelic, not Scots............

Metalattakk
28-Feb-11, 18:30
As the Doric-spikkan mannie in the shoe-shop says:

"Bit, fit fit fits fit fit, fit?"

orkneycadian
28-Feb-11, 18:30
But it is reassuring to know that in this time of public service cuts and school closures the Scottish Parliament can afford to translate their webpage into this "language". http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/vli/language/scots/index.htm

I guess they need to when its also offered in, amongst others....


Arabic
Urdu
Chinese
Bengali
Punjabi

theone
28-Feb-11, 18:33
I guess they need to when its also offered in, amongst others....


Arabic
Urdu
Chinese
Bengali
Punjabi


I disagree.

The rest are valid languages. "Scots" is just a dialect of English.

Venture
28-Feb-11, 18:52
I disagree.

The rest are valid languages. "Scots" is just a dialect of English.
I'm sure trix will have plenty to say on the subject.

Kenn
28-Feb-11, 20:46
Far ee fae?
I have always understood there are several dialects within the borders of Scotland so are they referring to any one in particular or just whether or not you have a knowledge of local words and phrases?

theone
28-Feb-11, 20:51
Far ee fae?
I have always understood there are several dialects within the borders of Scotland so are they referring to any one in particular or just whether or not you have a knowledge of local words and phrases?

The link above, and the "scots" language on the parliament website are very much central belt dialect. It's just English with a few words thrown in.

theone
28-Feb-11, 20:52
I'm sure trix will have plenty to say on the subject.

I think Trix would be the first to tell you she speaks a dialect, not a separate language.

Kenn
28-Feb-11, 23:02
English with a few words thrown in!
That's a red rag to a bull if ever I saw one.

tonkatojo
28-Feb-11, 23:08
English with a few words thrown in!
That's a red rag to a bull if ever I saw one.

Aye but is it applicable/true.

George Brims
28-Feb-11, 23:08
Scots is not regarded by linguists as just "English with a few words thrown in". I was sought out by grad students from the linguistics department on the campus where I work a few years ago, and asked to read various texts including works by the Bard himsel, Rabbie Burns. It was harder than I expected to make it sound right. I threw some Caithness dialect at them for good measure.

theone
28-Feb-11, 23:54
Scots is not regarded by linguists as just "English with a few words thrown in".


Perhaps not, that's just how I read it.

Either way, I see no relevance of this "language" to my life and I'm quite disgruntled by the monopoly people in the central belt put on Scottishness.

golach
01-Mar-11, 00:00
From about 1494 the language spoken and written in Scotland was known as Scottis until the Union of the Crowns

sids
01-Mar-11, 00:12
Most "Scots" words are Middle English.

ginajade
01-Mar-11, 00:19
i thought we all spoke norn ,in this part of scotland until as late as the 16th century

theone
01-Mar-11, 00:23
From about 1494 the language spoken and written in Scotland was known as Scottis until the Union of the Crowns

I don't doubt it was.

But how close was that language to modern day "scots"?

Here's a quote from the scottish parliament site:

"We want tae mak siccar that as mony folk as possible can finn oot aboot the Scottish Pairlament."

Now, maybe I'm being cynical, but apart from "siccar", which may or may not be a "Scots" word, the rest just looks like badly spelt English.

Either way, it's got a distinct "southern" feel about it and, I, from Caithness, don't feel any affiliation for/with it.

golach
01-Mar-11, 00:32
The term Siccar was in use a long time before the present Scottish Parliament was ever conceived, here is a quote from 1306.

"Robert Bruce again came to the fore. His chief rival to the throne was John Comyn, Lord of Badenoch. Known as "Red" Comyn he was the nephew of John Balliol. At first they tried to come to an agreement but on Thursday 10th February 1306 they met in the church of the Greyfriars in Dumfries. An argument developed and Bruce stabbed Comyn. He dashed outside to his colleagues and said "I doubt I have slain Comyn". One of then, Sir Roger de Kirkpatrick, replied "You doubt? Then I'll mak siccar (make sure)" and dashed inside the church and stabbed Comyn again, killing him. That afternoon Bruce recaptured the castle at Castledykes from its English garrison and began the fight that eventually led him to the Scottish throne."

theone
01-Mar-11, 00:36
The term Siccar was in use a long time before the present Scottish Parliament was ever conceived, here is a quote from 1306.


Fair play, I'd never heard it before and so wasn't sure of its origin.

Either way, it's the only word in that sentence that hasn't been taken from English then wrongly spelt to accentuate a central dialect.

pmcd
01-Mar-11, 00:37
As an incomer, I was at pains to learn the language called Scottish, but apart from Wikipedia (Scottish version) there didn't seem to be a book called "Scottish For Dummies". and then I found an old recording of Stanley Baxter's "Parliamo Glesga", which gave me some great insights. "Fellona", claims SB, is used especially after drink has been taken "Ach, luik nah - der feller's FELLONA pavement!" Also such greetings as "Sanoffie" as in "Sanoffie cald day!" And my favourite (with no digs at council worthies anywhere, past or present) - "Airapeara toon coon'slors" - "there go two intellectuals". May the humour of Stanley Baxter give all of us incomers a soft landing in these beautiful parts.......

Shabbychic
01-Mar-11, 02:15
The link above, and the "scots" language on the parliament website are very much central belt dialect. It's just English with a few words thrown in.

Did you actually look at the website I posted? Is the following either central belt or just English with a few words thrown in?

He wis a bad day: a nor-wast gell an a sea goin a da green girse. Dey wir no hop o a boat winnin owersoond. Da only wye a gettin da doctor in wis ta set on da Aid lifeboat. An ta get wird oot a da isle, dey could do nothin fir he cam dark, an dan morse wi da torch. For dey wir no telephone at dat time. I warren I wisna da best a patients, for a tree year aald taks ill wi bein made ta lie still, bit I canna mind. An whin da nicht cam doon, Dad stöd oot a da lee a da lammoose an morsed ta Sanness 'SOS'. He morsed fir he wis stivvened, an dan he cam in ta hae a cup a tay ta waarm him, an dan he wid go oot an try agyin for a while. A very coorse night, very cowld, wi haily shooers, an blaain a gell o wind.

To me, rather than those in central Scotland thinking the country stops at Perth, it is you that seems to think those south of Perth are not Scottish.

There are many words used both north and south of Scotland that are far from being English.

This was meant to be a fun thread, but you really have a bee in yer bunnet.

John Little
01-Mar-11, 07:57
I think it's a question of terms we use.

The area south of Perth and down into northern England was, as I said on another thread, the Kingdom of Strathclyde. This area was occupied in the dark ages by germanic tribes who either invaded or intermarried with the existing population to form the people we call lowland Scots - it depends on who you read.

In both areas the population spoke languages of Germanic origin. Nobody but a specialist would be able to read or speak those languages today.

In different parts of the country they evolved gradually into distinct forms. In southern England they became English. In Scotland it became Scottis. Scottis is not derived from English. Both are derived from Aenglisch.

So both languages share a common root but have gone down different roads.

The German word for sure is sichar.

I seem to be able to read Scots...

Torvaig
01-Mar-11, 09:44
I don't think there is any way to define the Scots language with certain criteria. All language and dialect evolves as time goes on and the world grows smaller. Even in our lifetimes, new words appear and if Shakespeare were to come back and see how language is used now, he would find many changes.

In his day (not all that long ago in terms of language evolution) he would not have said don't, won't, can't etc., but would have used the both words in full. We have a lot of "slang" words used now as standard in both speaking and writing and in just a generation the new words have become acceptable.

Although I consider myself as speaking the Caithness dialect most of the time, it is a lot more "refined" than the dialect my grandparents used. This had to happen as people travel more, move to new districts and work in jobs where they have to speak "standard" English to be understood; very important in many jobs.

It is not possible to keep all the dialects pure but that won't stop us enjoying our various tongues. It is only good manners to make ourselves understood in mixed company; no use speaking broad Caithness and no-one being able to understand what you are saying.

Robbie Shepherd is a champion of the Doric language but he does not speak it all the time. In general conversation he has the Aberdonian accent but not the broad Doric words he uses in some of his music shows. By using the Doric, he keeps alive words and phrases a lot of his older listeners use everyday and enjoy doing so but even those will eventually die out.

Our own Ian Sutherland is a perfect example of someone using his native dialect all the time and I must admit I enjoy hearing it but it must confuse visitors to our county! And nothing wrong with that; long live the Caithness dialect.! :lol:

Torvaig
01-Mar-11, 09:58
"He wis a bad day: a nor-wast gell an a sea goin a da green girse. Dey wir no hop o a boat winnin owersoond. Da only wye a gettin da doctor in wis ta set on da Aid lifeboat. An ta get wird oot a da isle, dey could do nothin fir he cam dark, an dan morse wi da torch. For dey wir no telephone at dat time. I warren I wisna da best a patients, for a tree year aald taks ill wi bein made ta lie still, bit I canna mind. An whin da nicht cam doon, Dad stöd oot a da lee a da lammoose an morsed ta Sanness 'SOS'. He morsed fir he wis stivvened, an dan he cam in ta hae a cup a tay ta waarm him, an dan he wid go oot an try agyin for a while. A very coorse night, very cowld, wi haily shooers, an blaain a gell o wind."

The language used above reminds me very much of the Shetland way of speaking which I suppose is more taken from the Norse rather than "Old Scots", rather like a lot of the Caithness wordies of which many have evolved from both the Gaelic and the Norse with a little French thown in for good measure as people moved around and settled in new areas.

northener
01-Mar-11, 10:02
Where does local dialect end and a 'new' language begin?

gleeber
01-Mar-11, 10:51
One way is for the government to build a nuclear power station in an isolated area in the north of Scotland. The language doesnt change but the dialect does. Thurso has developed a less coorse dialect since Dounreay arrived. Much softer than the Wick accent which, if you listen to Ian Sutherlands dialect when he lays it on thick, has also softened.

Another way is for the governemnt to pass an act of parliament forcing local communities to treat an alien language on an equal basis with their own. Surely that could never happen though.

theone
01-Mar-11, 11:23
Did you actually look at the website I posted? Is the following either central belt or just English with a few words thrown in?

He wis a bad day: a nor-wast gell an a sea goin a da green girse. Dey wir no hop o a boat winnin owersoond. Da only wye a gettin da doctor in wis ta set on da Aid lifeboat. An ta get wird oot a da isle, dey could do nothin fir he cam dark, an dan morse wi da torch. For dey wir no telephone at dat time. I warren I wisna da best a patients, for a tree year aald taks ill wi bein made ta lie still, bit I canna mind. An whin da nicht cam doon, Dad stöd oot a da lee a da lammoose an morsed ta Sanness 'SOS'. He morsed fir he wis stivvened, an dan he cam in ta hae a cup a tay ta waarm him, an dan he wid go oot an try agyin for a while. A very coorse night, very cowld, wi haily shooers, an blaain a gell o wind.


Yes I did have a look , very interesting.

I would say that paragraph you gave above is definately English with a few words thrown in. Why? Because I can speak English and us phonetics to undertand the poor spelling.

Nor-wast gell - North West Gale.
Da only wye a gettin da doctor- The only way of getting a doctor.

That's not a separate language!


To me, rather than those in central Scotland thinking the country stops at Perth, it is you that seems to think those south of Perth are not Scottish.


I can assure you that's not the case. They are as Scottish as I am. But this "Scots" language is hardly encompasing us all. A definite southern bias.



There are many words used both north and south of Scotland that are far from being English.


Definately, and exactly my point. But that doesn't make a new language. There's plenty of words used in Tyneside and Yorkshire that you wouldn't hear elsewhere.

Shabbychic
01-Mar-11, 11:36
I have at no time said it was a new language; they are a variety of dialects spoken in Scotland. I also don't see how the dialects on the site have a definite southern bias. The map has 10 area dialects to listen to.

squidge
01-Mar-11, 11:52
Scots is to English like portugese is to Spanish. They evolve from the same roots into separate and distinct languages. There are many scots words which are not found in English and there are also different rules for grammar In Scotland there were three distinct languages at one time so it's not surprising that some Scottish people don't have roots in the scots language. Modern scots IS different to ancient scots in the way milton's English is different to modern English. I think also there is a misunderstanding about Doric and Glaswegian - these are not dialects of English but of Scots.

Finally there is such richness in the Scots language, the way the words roll around your mouth is different. You should celebrate this.

theone
01-Mar-11, 11:54
I have at no time said it was a new language; they are a variety of dialects spoken in Scotland. I also don't see how the dialects on the site have a definite southern bias. The map has 10 area dialects to listen to.

Sorry Shabbychic, I know you've never said it was a new language. My views were not against your post or the site you linked to, but this notion of a "Scots" language found elsewhere.

I found your link very interesting, and yes, it did show multiple dialects, but what is given elsewhere as "Scots" in general is very central/southern orientated, not nearly as diverse as your link.

Shabbychic
01-Mar-11, 12:08
what is given elsewhere as "Scots" in general is very central/southern orientated.

That is probably very true, a bit like how Scottish weather is treated by UK weather people. It could be because there are more people doon the road writing aboot it.

tonkatojo
01-Mar-11, 12:45
Where does local dialect end and a 'new' language begin?

Not sure up here but in Geordie land the further from the Tyne you go the more the change, going North till North Northumberland Berwick it starts getting more Scottish.

I suppose its the same up here the further from the most populated main areas you go the more the change.

Corrie 3
01-Mar-11, 13:04
I fell in love with the Lady from Orkney who spoke on the map!!! Sooooo beautiful...Will you marry me?...

C3...:roll:;):lol:

pmcd
01-Mar-11, 13:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGQItvUBhG4

Sums it up pretty well.......

northener
01-Mar-11, 14:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGQItvUBhG4

Sums it up pretty well.......


And for a quick lesson from the East Coast:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI


Braw:cool:

Kitcat
01-Mar-11, 14:37
I jistsum gleekit idjits thiturkaried awaw wathmselvs lol

northener
01-Mar-11, 15:22
Golach is right in what he says.

Prior to James becoming James I of Scotland and England upon the death of Elizabeth, all documents in Scotland were drawn up in Scots - not English - it was only after the bias became more towards Scotland becoming the 'junior' partner that English began to supercede Scots as the preferred language for legal documents and trade in Scotland.

So this places it firmly as a language and not a dialect. You never find any legal or business documents in a dialect - say, Caithness, Dumfries, Yorkshire or Somerset dialect. They were all written in basically the same Scots or English style.

Is modern Scots the same as the 'Old' Scots? Yes, in as much that modern English is a version of C16th English.


Caithness dialect? The demise of the Caithness dialect is nothing unique. In Yorkshire (where I was brought up) the difference in dialect was noticeable between villages just three or four miles away. Barnsley was only 16 miles from where I was brought up (Holmfirth area), yet their dialect was completely different to ours, might as well have been 160 miles.
And I'm only talking about the 1960's and 70's here. Since then the more parochial differences have fizzled out.

The Yorkshire accent is still strong in those areas - but it is a more general accent with many old local names falling into disuse. People move about more, we are exposed to more outside influences via recordings and media transmissions and new language is evolving all the time.

The Bruce
01-Mar-11, 15:34
Maybe Theone should just tick English when he gets his Census form and the rest of us can tick Scots.

As a Scot, I am delighted that we are finally being recognised. For too long the Gaels have had millions wasted on them. It's an offense to every non gael that the 2000 people who can actually speak that language get millions pumped into thier language whilst the 1.5 million Scots speakers have had 200,000 pounds spent on them this year. More money is spent in Northern Ireland promoting the Scots language than in Scotland itself.

As for the origin of the Scots, they were Irish settlers who landed on the west coast. An earlier attempt to settle there was rebuffed, but they eventually succeded in AD500 when Fergus Mor Mac Erc landed there and managed to create a new kingdom, Dal Riata.


The Scots language has shared it's influences with the English language for over 1500 years! Of course the two are similar. But they are not the same.

As for the influences of the central belt, of course Scots is associated with them, that's were the language originates from. Anyone who thinks scots is a dialect of English is a glaikit bampot or a boorackin besom.

golach
01-Mar-11, 16:40
Golach is right in what he says.

Prior to James becoming James I of Scotland and England upon the death of Elizabeth, all documents in Scotland were drawn up in Scots - not English - it was only after the bias became more towards Scotland becoming the 'junior' partner that English began to supercede Scots as the preferred language for legal documents and trade in Scotland.

Northener, exactly the point I was trying to make, all legal documents in those days were written in Scotti, just proves Scots was a language in its own.

brandy
01-Mar-11, 16:58
ive always thought of the scots as speaking english with another dialect.. im american.. and what i speak is called english.. its not called american.
but we have lots of dif. meanings for words that do not apply over here.. and vice versa.
i could write in my native dialect.. and it would just look silly to me.
i tend to skim over things that are not written in plain english.. as unless im really interested it just gives me a headache trying to decipher it.

Aaldtimer
01-Mar-11, 17:07
http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/knowledgeoflanguage/scots/index.asp :)

theone
01-Mar-11, 17:12
Maybe Theone should just tick English when he gets his Census form and the rest of us can tick Scots.



It sounds to me that you're using the English language now.....

oldmarine
01-Mar-11, 19:41
I am a USA citizen who has been to Caithness, Scotland three different times. The first two times were on business to the Naval Station. The 2nd time was to engineer a satellite communications system for which I supervised an installation team. The 3rd time was with my family when we toured the UK including one week bed & breakfast in Caithness. In all my times there I never heard any one speak much Scottish except for a gentleman who managed a hotel in Caithness and always wore kilts. I often wondered whether the Scot language was still in use. I have found this thread an interesting read.

George Brims
01-Mar-11, 22:20
ive always thought of the scots as speaking english with another dialect.. im american.. and what i speak is called english.. its not called american.
Sometimes it is called American, though only to point out the subtle differences. Churchill talked of "Two peoples divided by a common tongue". But what language was that Bush chappie speaking? Hope you can all view this video onthe UK side: This is from Sunday night on the Jimmy Kimmel show, right after the Oscars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnxNnJYziMY

I don't remember the name of the movie, but I recall a scene where these guys are all in a troopship heading across the Atlantic in WWII. One of the guys (from Brooklyn) is horrified to hear they don't speak English "over there", and demands to know if anyone "speaks European".

George Brims
01-Mar-11, 22:25
The Scots language has shared it's influences with the English language for over 1500 years! Of course the two are similar. But they are not the same.
I have a great book called "The Story of English", from a USA TV series of the same name. One whole chapter (of six) is entitled "Good broad Scots", and details how much influence the Scots tongue has had on modern English. Of course the fact it was written by McCrum, Cran and McNeill may have had something to do with that emphasis!

The Bruce
02-Mar-11, 11:24
Theone,

I'm bilingual. I can speak, read and write Scots and English. The fact that I have to write on here in English to be understood just proves the point that investment in the Scots language is needed now, not in another fifty year when there's only 2000 people speaking it. That'll be too late.

And to the Brandy and Oldmarine, you speak English because your fore fathers did. There are also a lot of Spanish speakers in the states. Britain and Spain were the main colonists around the time your country was formed. It's slightly different from English spoken over here because you've only had 250 years to change it.

theone
02-Mar-11, 12:06
Theone,

I'm bilingual. I can speak, read and write Scots and English. The fact that I have to write on here in English to be understood just proves the point that investment in the Scots language is needed now, not in another fifty year when there's only 2000 people speaking it.

I wouldn't see it as a good investment at all.

In this day and age of globalisation I'd rather see our kids learn languages such as Spanish, German or even Chinese, languages that will allow them to interact with the wider world.

Spending time and money learning an effectively dead language is not, as I see it, a good investment in our childrens development.

gleeber
02-Mar-11, 12:38
I could probably understand the Scots language to read but would have difficulty writing it in anything other than a Thurso dialect.
Scots, like Gaelic attracts various enthusaists with a will to learn and keep the language alive. Fair play I say but I also add that the language of Scotland has evolved into English, everyone talks it, most can read it.
The Gaels have already made an attack on our evolved culture and language and are intent on forcing Gaelic on anyone whether they want it or not. Scots language enthusaists could do worse than confront the Gaelic movement and particularly those in their power-base of Inverness. A share of the booty so to speak. fat chance!
Gaelic could be offered charitable status as could Scots but backed up by an Act of Parliament is both artificial and provocative.

Duncansby
02-Mar-11, 13:00
I wouldn't see it as a good investment at all.

In this day and age of globalisation I'd rather see our kids learn languages such as Spanish, German or even Chinese, languages that will allow them to interact with the wider world.

Spending time and money learning an effectively dead language is not, as I see it, a good investment in our childrens development.

So are you saying that we should abandon our identity for the sake of globalisation? Language is a significant part of our cultural heritage, arguably more so than tartan and bagpipes. Visitors to Scotland want to experience the cultural heritage when they visit from near and far and what gives a flavour of that more than the way we speak. The teaching of other languages should be applauded but not at the expense of our native tongue. What makes us unique, makes us interesting and who wants to live in a world in which we all sound the same?

theone
02-Mar-11, 15:02
So are you saying that we should abandon our identity for the sake of globalisation? Language is a significant part of our cultural heritage, arguably more so than tartan and bagpipes. Visitors to Scotland want to experience the cultural heritage when they visit from near and far and what gives a flavour of that more than the way we speak.

No, I'm not talking about abandoning our identity at all.

I'm Scottish through and through, but I don't need to learn another language to be more "Scottish".

Scotland has evolved through time, and the English language has been adopted by it.


The teaching of other languages should be applauded but not at the expense of our native tongue.

Not at the expense of our native tongue? What exactly is our native tongue? Scots?, Gaelic?, Norse?, Germanic? Caveman Grunting? All of those have, I'm sure, played a significant part in our history. But times change, lets move on. I'm not for a second suggesting we "forget" our past, just that we look to the future.

Teaching our children a second language that they can only use with people they already share a common mother tongue with is not good use of teaching resources in my opinion.

rich
02-Mar-11, 17:25
What happens with language is that people naturally modify it. Before television and before radio most everyone spoke a dialect. Dialects, left alone long enough, have the potential to become languages in their own right. The BBC and the Royal Family have the effrontery to claim they are speaking "proper" English. The Second World War
Well I have news for them.
They are speaking one of the weirder dialogues.
I wonder if any Orgers remember Wilfred Pickles. He had a glorious Yorkshire brogue. Normally he would have been passed over by the plum in the mouth brigade. But there was a war on and Pickles ended up as the chief announcer for the BBC. That was a powerful wedge in the camagn against posh talk
He did a post-war radio show featuring "Mabel on the Table." This feature provoked much amusement among the West Public School crowd.
Really what Mabel did was to hand out the prizes in some competition that was part of the show. Pickles also did a Radio Luxemburg dramatization of The Good Companions by J.J. Priestley.
Radio Luxemburg also ran DAN DARE and when that ended the substute was JOURNEY INTO SPACE!!!!
Scary stuff.
Those were the days.
Let me digress a tad - I have fond radio memories of SATURDAY NIGHT THEATRE. I think the program ran between ten and eleven in the evening. One of their best writers was JOHN KEIR CROSS. He wrote wonderful scary stuff much of it set in Scotland. It was hard to tell which was a real Caithness gale outside or a BBC sound effect.
I hope I have got all this right.
I shall check it out

brandy
02-Mar-11, 17:46
so i guess with the logic.. i can speak read and write American, Scottish and English... wow.. im more educated than i knew *Laughs* wonder if i could put multi-lingual on a CV?

Duncansby
02-Mar-11, 19:26
No, I'm not talking about abandoning our identity at all.

I'm Scottish through and through, but I don't need to learn another language to be more "Scottish".

Scotland has evolved through time, and the English language has been adopted by it.



Not at the expense of our native tongue? What exactly is our native tongue? Scots?, Gaelic?, Norse?, Germanic? Caveman Grunting? All of those have, I'm sure, played a significant part in our history. But times change, lets move on. I'm not for a second suggesting we "forget" our past, just that we look to the future.

Teaching our children a second language that they can only use with people they already share a common mother tongue with is not good use of teaching resources in my opinion.

Yes languages evolve over time and as John Little has already pointed out Scots and English evolved over time from the same source. The words I use on an everyday basis are derived from Scots and from Norse and to wipe those out would be a loss of our heritage. Having worked for years in the central belt I had to change the way I spoke in order to be understood and I became much more aware of the way I constructed sentences and many of the words I'd use without thinking were alien to many of the people I spoke with. But I'm not going to abandon the language I grew up with and suddenly start talking in RP. There is no restriction to teaching children several languages, in fact I'm sure it's acknowledged that the more languages the learn the easier they pick up new ones.

squidge
02-Mar-11, 23:56
We are not talking about teaching children a whole new language here but celebrating the language many of them already use to a greater or lesser degree. There are Scottish words like glaikit and foosome, bisom and dreich which are rich and descriptive in a way that the English words are not. If kids are used to hearing the scots language then they will find it more valued and recognised, if they arent then It will add to their vocabulary and to their knowledge of history and heritage. How is that a bad thing? Language in all it's richness should be celebrated and enjoyed. Why would we want to lose words which are so wonderful and feel so good to say?

Shabbychic
03-Mar-11, 01:26
so i guess with the logic.. i can speak read and write American, Scottish and English... wow.. im more educated than i knew *Laughs* wonder if i could put multi-lingual on a CV?

You could have a new career on the horizon, as a translator for the UN. ;)

sandyr1
03-Mar-11, 17:50
Really what Mabel did was to hand out the prizes in some competition that was part of the show. Pickles also did a Radio Luxemburg dramatization of The Good Companions by J.J. Priestley.
Radio Luxemburg also ran DAN DARE and when that ended the substute was JOURNEY INTO SPACE!!!!
Scary stuff.
Those were the days.
Let me digress a tad - I have fond radio memories of SATURDAY NIGHT THEATRE. I think the program ran between ten and eleven in the evening. One of their best writers was JOHN KEIR CROSS. He wrote wonderful scary stuff much of it set in Scotland. It was hard to tell which was a real Caithness gale outside or a BBC sound effect.
I hope I have got all this right.
I shall check it out[/QUOTE]

Geeze Mr. R...I remember these!