Power of the Press?

[John Little]

A group of people meet online, many through a Facebook group. They have never met in person.

They find that a rare building in an area they all have something in common with is scheduled to be demolished.

Together they write a report which challenges/refutes much of what is being said as a justification to demolish aforesaid building. This is a rather new form of public pressure and one not in common use – yet.

This is backed by three national figures; a knight, a Lord and an MSP.

Eventually the people in charge of the building clarify the situation and state that the building can actually be saved under certain circumstances.

And yet, of this, nothing in the local paper.


Am I missing something here?


Serious question.

[gleeber]

And yet, of this, nothing in the local paper.

Am I missing something here?

Serious question.
The Groat does seem to be very queit about this issue. The Dounreay communications officer who sometimes responds on the org as Dounreay1 used to be a reporter for the Groat and as I recall was not particularly friendly towards Dounreay. Poacher turned gamekeeper and all that.
I cant imagine that has anything to do with the Groats reluctance to run the issue. :eek:

[John Little]

I would certainly hope not!

It would not reflect very well would it?

The other implication would be that the Groat does not bother to monitor the Caithness Community website called the Org - and I would find that rather hard to believe, for if so it would not be very enterprising of them in the search for local news, to say the least.

Or of course that they did not find the thing newsworthy. But there are so many other things that they do find newsworthy that I find that hard to believe too.

[gleeber]

This new medium (internet forums) is in it's infancy whilst journalism is well established. Perhaps it sees the internet as a threat?
Of course the Groat follows the org as do the police and the local politicians and ministers of religion and even ordinary builders.
Perhaps the Groat could create a good story by telling us why it doesnt keep up with a story which although it has a strong local connection has now become a national issue with people from all walks of life showing interest.

[secrets in symmetry]

Since you asked a serious question, I will give you a serious answer. I will assume your post concerns the DFR sphere at Dounreay.

One of the tasks of the local press is to reflect local opinion. In the case of DFR, it could be concluded that there isn't much local opinion. I say that because your Save the Dome petition has gained a grand total of 129 signatures in nearly 5 months, and your Facebook campaign has only 351 members.

A number of years ago, there was a petition in support of building a big Asda supermarket in Thurso. If I remember rightly, it gained three or four thousand signatures in less than a week.

Now we've established that the locals aren't vocal, why isn't your knight in shining armour riding to the rescue? Where is your Lord, and is your MSP up for re-election in May?

[gleeber]

I think you underestimate local opinion. I ask most people I know and sometimes people I don't know, what they think of the dome and most, although its not a big deal in their lives, would keep it.
That's what pressure groups do. Most peole have an opinion and from my experience most would keep it.
Like the Laurel Bush affair the dome affair wont be over till it's over.

[John Little]

You make some serious points.

The Lord, the knight and the MSP, I do assure you, have done stuff behind the scenes and are not idle.

The ASDA suggestion touched the everyday lives of ordinary people and was more concerned with daily life and household budgets - so got a lot of support.

A campaign like ours however, functions properly with the oxygen of publicity. Whilst it has not gone viral we are not discontent with the petition signatures or the Facebook membership given that the amount of publicity for it has been minimal. At least it demonstrates a small constituency that are interested in saving the Sphere - and may indicate that there might be more if people thought it would lead to something positive like jobs or a boost to the local economy in the shape of a tourist attraction.

I do not wish to reprise the Dounreay thread. The merits and demerits, cons and pros of the Sphere can be debated there without end.

You say that one of the functions of the press is to reflect local opinion. I agree - but it is only one.
Press can also make opinion by drawing attention to matters of local significance.

The future of the Sphere has a significance.

Especially considering that DSRL and NDA have both stated that there are circumstances in which it might be saved.

I started this thread not to push the case of the Dounreay Sphere but to ask why the Press ignore this.

[gleeber]

Now we've established that the locals aren't vocal, why isn't your knight in shining armour riding to the rescue? Where is your Lord, and is your MSP up for re-election in May?
That's a very personal kind of reply and is meant to provoke. Your not Joournalist are you? :lol:

[secrets in symmetry]

I think you underestimate local opinion. I ask most people I know and sometimes people I don't know, what they think of the dome and most, although its not a big deal in their lives, would keep it.
That's what pressure groups do. Most peole have an opinion and from my experience most would keep it.
Like the Laurel Bush affair the dome affair wont be over till it's over.No, I don't underestimate local opinion. I chose my words carefully. My point was, or should have been, that others may underestimate local opinion.

The truth is that I don't know what local opinion is. When I left Caithness, I was under the impression that the plan was to demolish everything but the sphere, and people generally seemed happy with that. Evidently, the plan changed before I left, but I somehow failed to become aware of the change. Until recently, that is.

I hear what you're saying about people keeping their opinion (*). That's fine and dandy, but let's not hear them complain when the sphere is demolished (or retained) against their will.

(*) This was an attempt at a play on words regarding people keeping their opinion (to themselves). I fear it wasn't a very good one.

[secrets in symmetry]

That's a very personal kind of reply and is meant to provoke. Your not Joournalist are you? :lol:Provocative and emotive, yes. Personal, no. Journalist, you work that out. ;)

[secrets in symmetry]

You make some serious points.

The Lord, the knight and the MSP, I do assure you, have done stuff behind the scenes and are not idle.

The ASDA suggestion touched the everyday lives of ordinary people and was more concerned with daily life and household budgets - so got a lot of support.

A campaign like ours however, functions properly with the oxygen of publicity. Whilst it has not gone viral we are not discontent with the petition signatures or the Facebook membership given that the amount of publicity for it has been minimal. At least it demonstrates a small constituency that are interested in saving the Sphere - and may indicate that there might be more if people thought it would lead to something positive like jobs or a boost to the local economy in the shape of a tourist attraction.

I do not wish to reprise the Dounreay thread. The merits and demerits, cons and pros of the Sphere can be debated there without end.

You say that one of the functions of the press is to reflect local opinion. I agree - but it is only one.
Press can also make opinion by drawing attention to matters of local significance.

The future of the Sphere has a significance.

Especially considering that DSRL and NDA have both stated that there are circumstances in which it might be saved.

I started this thread not to push the case of the Dounreay Sphere but to ask why the Press ignore this.I hear what you're saying, and I will try to stick to the intended topic.

On the whole, I agree with what you're saying, but I would still like to press the point that a local who isn't vocal will not be received sympathetically if events don't go the way he or she would like.

I'm pleased to learn that the knight and His Lordship are being active behind the scenes. The last thing your campaign needs is for him to paint his face blue, raise the saltire, and run about daft screaming Freeedoooooommmmmm!

As for your main question about relative silence from the JoGJ and the Courier, I wonder whether gleeber is right about their fear of the internet. The alternative, namely that the editor wants to Sphere to go, is worse - or is it?

[John Little]

Sometimes I get things very wrong - and I believe that I have done so this time. You are not a troll and I withdraw the accusation without reserve and apologise.

You do however get a little carried away on religious matters.

I agree with all that you say except that I could not see Lord MacLennan behaving as you suggest- a frightening prospect.

After a lot of looking into this I know that it is not absolutely necessary to demolish the Dounreay Sphere. This is a view that I am not alone in; and we have it in writing from DSRL and NDA that they would respond positively to any group coming forward with a scheme for redeveloping the sphere that does not interfere with decommissioning.

In other words it can be saved.

But if it is demolished and locals look back on it as a wasted opportunity then perhaps they should have been more vocal- because it is absolutely NOT a done deal.

And you are right - if the JoG journal is silent because of the editor's personal views then that would be a lot lot worse in what it implies.

[gleeber]

No, I don't underestimate local opinion. I chose my words carefully. My point was, or should have been, that others may underestimate local opinion.

The truth is that I don't know what local opinion is.
Quote of the week. :lol:

[John Little]

This new medium (internet forums) is in it's infancy whilst journalism is well established. Perhaps it sees the internet as a threat?
Of course the Groat follows the org as do the police and the local politicians and ministers of religion and even ordinary builders.
Perhaps the Groat could create a good story by telling us why it doesnt keep up with a story which although it has a strong local connection has now become a national issue with people from all walks of life showing interest.

No response Gleeber. Pity - it is a good suggestion.

[rich]

What use is a local newspaper that has a strange reluctance to cover local news?
I'm sorry, I didn't phrase the above quite as I intended. For "strange" replace with BIZARRE!!!!!!
Now I am just getting warmed up.
John Little is a complete trouble maker, obsessive, intolerant, permanently angry, a master of the sly inuendo, and an overeducated snob. He probably kicks cats as a hobby.
There is only one thing to be done with him.
Give him a weekly column in the paper!!!!! He's a natural....

[John Little]

Guilty on all counts M'Lud - save one.

I like cats.

[John Little]

But I couldn't eat a whole one....;)

[secrets in symmetry]

Sometimes I get things very wrong - and I believe that I have done so this time. You are not a troll and I withdraw the accusation without reserve and apologise.

You do however get a little carried away on religious matters.

I agree with all that you say except that I could not see Lord MacLennan behaving as you suggest- a frightening prospect.

After a lot of looking into this I know that it is not absolutely necessary to demolish the Dounreay Sphere. This is a view that I am not alone in; and we have it in writing from DSRL and NDA that they would respond positively to any group coming forward with a scheme for redeveloping the sphere that does not interfere with decommissioning.

In other words it can be saved.

But if it is demolished and locals look back on it as a wasted opportunity then perhaps they should have been more vocal- because it is absolutely NOT a done deal.

And you are right - if the JoG journal is silent because of the editor's personal views then that would be a lot lot worse in what it implies.Apology not needed, so not accepted. I hope you feel the same way.

I've joined other established forums and struggled to be noticed for months. I thought a quick and lazy way to become known on this one would be to come out at high noon with all guns firing indiscriminately. Shooting from the hip can be dangerous and it can surely backfire, but it could be worth the risk.

I have no idea why the JoG is silent, but that silence is worrying. Are they really that out of touch, or are they just out of Thurso where the shutdown will hit hardest?

What would you suggest doing with the Sphere to make it financially viable?

[John Little]

Ah now - I have suggested this before.

Companies like Atkins Heritage have been doing rather well this last few years - ever since 2007 in fact. The reason is that Heritage Lottery funding has been squeezed by the necessity to fund the Olympics. So lottery funding that would once have gone to heritage has now gone to sport.
English Heritage, the Welsh body Cadw and Historic Scotland, are all short of funds, and tasks they would once have carried out themselves are being farmed out to commercial groups. Assessing the Dounreay sphere was therefore put out to tender and the winning bid was Atkins. The ensuing report does not read very much like a 'report' as regards the Sphere; I personally feel that it was driven by matters other than heritage.

As to what to do with it. The Dounreay site is 150 acres of land, most of which is not contaminated. The parts that are contaminated are, for the most part being remediated and made safe - such as the land in and around Dounreay Castle. In the site is a large number of Neolithic remains, most of which are unexcavated. The site was a battlefield in the Clan wars, and the 16th century castle was subject to a seige by Cromwell's army in 1651. During WW2 it was an airfield guarding the northern approaches. In the 50s a unique structure, the largest sphere in the world was built there. A nuclear first was accomplished there in 1961. All this inside one perimeter fence; to do nothing with such a place is a no-brainer. I can actually think of nowhere in the United Kingdom where there is so much History before anything is done to develop the site. To me it cries out for a small and seasonal heritage centre.

In addition to this the proposed nuclear archives ( a white elephant) at Wick, has been put on hold. Who would visit that I wonder? Yet they were prepared to spend £20,000000 on it at one time. The Dounreay exhibition centre got thousands of visitors every summer and that was only a small concern.

So why not a small museum and archives at Dounreay? Open to the public April-September each year with the archives open all year round. To come under the control of Caithness Horizons who already have the expertise and staff qualified to run it? If successful they could, in time expand with re-enactors giving demonstrations of Caithness stone cutting, herring fishing (Dounreay has a harbour nearby), crofting. Somewhere with a cafe and a shop for Tourists on the North coast to go on a rainy day in summer. What else has Caithness got for the car-bound tourist with quiz trails for kids? The whole thing under the suzerainty of Historic Scotland

And charge for entry of course.

And it would solve the problem that what is being done, by removing artefacts from the site and housing them in Thurso is actually a contravention, on several counts, of the Venice Charter on the preservation of heritage.

And the Olympics will be over next year and Heritage funding will not be so squeezed - and we did not win the world cup. And the economy will improve over the next 10 years.

Things are possible and the bodies exist to do it

If they wish to.

The sphere can be saved.

I am not a businessman or an entrepreneur but with such assets already in place and crying out for something to be done with it, I believe the onus is not actually on me to explain what can be done with the place. I think the onus is on DSRL, NDA and Historic Scotland to explain why they are not doing something with it.., and the Atkins Heritage report will not do.

This matter is, of course, of no importance locally so will be ignored.

[secrets in symmetry]

Thank you for your long and considered reply.

I had heard of Dounreay Castle but I knew nothing about it, and I didn't know that Cromwell's army ever ventured this far north. I downloaded the Atkins Report from your site, and you are right about it. It is vacuous. That's a polite way of calling it bovine excrement written by circus entertainers with large shoes.

Nevertheless, doing something positive with the Sphere will require entrepreneurial expertise, commitment and possibly outrageous confidence that may not be there.

Meanwhile, I am guilty of going off on tangents again.

Surely there must be someone from the JoG willing to comment on their newspaper's silence.

[John Little]

Dounreay Castle has apparently got several unique features which are worth preserving so it is a listed building. The information about it and the other site history is stuff that I have culled from the pages of Dounreay News, a worthy publication which is truthful and clear and always prints everything that is happening of any importance to Dounreay.

Yes I agree - doing something positive with the Sphere would require entrepreneurial skills, commitment and confidence that a heritage structure was worth saving and could be developed into an attraction.

There is a body called Historic Scotland which is funded by the taxpayers. They have a mission statement and a commitment to preserving Scotland's Heritage. They look after over 300 properties I believe. If you look at this link;

http://jobs.historic-scotland.gov.uk/Working-for-us/Meet-our-people/

you will see that they employ monuments managers. That is to say that they employ people who already have the requisite skills to do something with Dounreay. I believe that their duty to preserve the heritage is also enshrined in statute.

They also have staffed properties all over the place;
http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/index/places/managedproperties.htm

I assume that they rely on some employees and some volunteers. That they run cafes and shops to derive extra income? Well if they are like English Heritage they do.... maybe it's different in Scotland?

One wonders what their position is now that they know that the Sphere could be saved? Would they say that they could not take a position until the outcome of decommissioning was clear? Or would they declare that they had an interest and that if the Sphere was still saveable after decommissioning then they would look at it again?

But no-one is forced into any definite position on that possibility while the man and woman in the street think that the sphere will be demolished and end of story. I saw it repeated in a BBC news report yesterday - and I know it to be untrue;

http://www.dounreaystakeholdergroup.org/files/downloads/download1701.pdf


Censorship?

Post scriptum - you are beginning to sound rather like a friend of mine...

[John Little]

One further thought.

The sphere will be around for at least 15 years.

Given that timescale one wee statement from Historic Scotland that they would re-examine the matter closer to the end of the decommissioning process, with a view to possible preservation of the Sphere would content me for the moment - and a number of years. One statement that there is a possibility of it.

That does not seem unreasonable to me.

And given that letter on the Dounreay Stakeholder's website, I think that the decision not to paint the sphere is deplorable. Historic Scotland should put it under a temporary listing which would oblige its owners to maintain it.

[secrets in symmetry]

Are you suggesting that Historic Scotland could take over the Sphere and run it themselves?

[John Little]

I cannot see why not.

They see themselves as the guardian of last resort, especially as regards locations in remote areas.

There's also 4 points on their mission statement which relate to this;

"To protect and conserve Scotland's built heritage;
To encourage public appreciation and enjoyment of Scotland's built heritage;
To play an active role in the development and success of Scottish Ministers' social, economic and environmental policies; and
To be effective and efficient in their work."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2004/02/18850/32748

They procure, they consult and they encourage. They have a formidable array of the necessary skills and from where I sit it's their job.

Am I mistaken in my view of their function?

[RecQuery]

Directed by M. Night Shyamalan

[John Little]

Directed by M. Night Shyamalan

Well that's quite oblique - bounced right off me....