View Full Version : Oil workers trapped in Libya
Concern has been voiced about the plight of oil workers trapped in their camp in Libya. Details here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-12550802) and here (http://www.yellowad.co.uk/news.cfm?id=6714&headline=Fears%20for%20stranded%20oil%20workers%20 in%20Libya) . The camp is said to be two-and-a-half hours from Benghazi. An FCO spokesperson said, "The safety of British Nationals in Libya is of paramount concern. We are doing all we can to help them, including those in camps.”
Could the government do more; should the government do more? If "yes", what can be done?
oldmarine
23-Feb-11, 20:52
Gronuck: It's a sticky wicket. Very similar to what happened in Egypt and even longer ago in Iran when the new rulers replaced the old regime. I expect it to get worse as country after country falls to new regimes. There are a lot of mid Eastern countries trying to defy their current rulers.
I think it is the responsibility of the oil companies to get the workers out.
I also foresee major problems in the middle east, particularly between Israel and Egypt/Syria, once these populations get the chance to vote for someone with popular policies.
while im sure the oil companies would be more than happy to get them out.. the question is how can they?
if the borders are closed they cant get in.. you cant just say.. im going in to get our people.. this is where the govt. has to come in and negotiate with the local powers to "allow" them access to their people.
its a diplomatic nightmare.. and how concerned do you think he is right now.. when he is shooting people in the street for insurrection.
I caught a piece on this evening's news where the daughter of one of the oil workers was concerned the government were not doing enough. But I can't think what she thought they could do. Perhaps she thought the PM would send in a squadron from the SAS and a fleet of C130s!
from cnn..
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/23/libya.evacuations/index.html?hpt=T1
Yep. Whilst it is a horrible situation to be in, and no doubt terrifying the the workers stuck there. But it isn't an easy job to get people out of a desert especially when the country is violent turmoil.
The safest option may be to send troops in to recover the workers, but this is diplomatically a non starter. Plus they'd need time to get kit in place.
In reality the best bet is probably to try and buy their safety.
Anyway, the mad dog is in Russia now apparently.
There was an interview on the radio earlier with a Scottish guy there and he was saying that basically folk from villiages around about came with AK-47's and went through their stuff and took what they wanted and took all their jeeps too and a lot of the food which now left them with about a day's supply. They're not that far from an airport it seems. Hope they all get out soon an ok.
A lot of the workers in Libya don't work for the oil companies as such, they are employed by agencies (not necessarily British) I know a guy in Libya who works for a Spanish agency. So who should be responsible? My answer is the UK Gov. All or most other European countries have already got their peeps out, just sent in military transport planes to Tripoli Airport.
I heard William Hague on the radio earlier and he sounded on the ball. Are you saying they are not handling it as well as they could do?
It must be a frightener for the guys out there.
tonkatojo
23-Feb-11, 22:49
854
I caught a piece on this evening's news where the daughter of one of the oil workers was concerned the government were not doing enough. But I can't think what she thought they could do. Perhaps she thought the PM would send in a squadron from the SAS and a fleet of C130s!
Some of the latest head protection the gov sent
[ATTACH=CONFIG]8543
They took the lucrative shilling to work there. They're not there at the request of the British Government or the people of this country. Their choice. Their consequences.
They took the lucrative shilling to work there. They're not there at the request of the British Government or the people of this country. Their choice. Their consequences.
Good point. These oil workers will be earning a substantial tax free wage if they only return to the UK occasionally.
I do think their employers should have had an ear to the ground for this sort of eventuality. They should have been aware that Gaddafi has always been an eccentric bampott. The oil companies should have had plans in place for a quick exit.
They took the lucrative shilling to work there. They're not there at the request of the British Government or the people of this country. Their choice. Their consequences.
Good point. These oil workers will be earning a substantial tax free wage if they only return to the UK occasionally.
Harsh, but I see where you're coming from.
Yes, they might not be paying uk tax, but they're not "cheating" the UK in any way, they're only following tax rules.
There's a couple of million unemployed, and more on incapacity benefit who don't pay tax. Should they not get the protection of the government?
If you're travelling under a British passport, I think you should travel with a level of protection from the UK government.
But I still think the oil companies, or the agencies, should be doing more. I don't think the uprising will bring as much bad feeling towards foreigners as there is in Iraq for example, but the lawlessness and looting may well affect them.
I think it is the responsibility of the oil companies to get the workers out.
I also foresee major problems in the middle east, particularly between Israel and Egypt/Syria, once these populations get the chance to vote for someone with popular policies.
I have to agree with this. People who opt to work in such places for very big salaries cannot then complain when they cannot get out. They cannot expect the government to use my hard earned taxes to pay for them when they have been earning so much more than my meagre remuneration.
The folk from UK working in Libya have known for many many years the risks they are under working in that country but wanted to earn the large monies earned there - always knowing the UK will do everything they can to rescue thei folk with UK passports. These folk should now have to pay back fully the cost of their repatriation and pay the full taxes due to the UK government. If they want to benefit from having UK passports when they feel like it they have to pay UK taxes
In 1974, I was one of the many families caught in the troubles in Cyprus - as soon as the troubles started the tourist from UK were warned to get out of the country, many thought it would blow over and did not attempt to leave - why should they interrupt and spoil their holidays. In the meantime the forces were sending all the families who were due to return to UK in the next 3 months onto aircraft to ease the situation on the sovereign base areas. These tourists did not consider the service people who would be putting their lives on the line to save them when the trouble did erupt and these tourists realised finally their lives were at risk - they soon packed out the forces bases demanding flights home! They expected to walk into a sovereign base and catch the next aircraft back to UK - often they were complaining about being kept waiting for flights, lack of fresh milk, lack of fresh clothes, being kept in areas until all paperwork could be processed and flights found for all the folk entitled to enter UK.
At this time there were all nationalities turning up, not just UK, all wanting on flights out of Cyprus. All folk who were leaving on flights to UK had to have the correct immigration authority to enter UK or UK would have been inundated with refugees, it is not a case of quick fill up an aircraft and take off for UK as many thought. I can remember many nationalities Greeks, Turks, Russians, Indian, Pakistan, Iran, American, German, French, Austrian, Swiss, Australian, Singaporean, Malaysian are some turning up expecting to be taken out of Cyprus to UK, many in their swimming costumes with no form of identification but still expecting UK to come to their aid and pay all the bills!
One lorry load of folk were brought in by United Nations from the cellar of bombed house, the person receiving them told the army officer accompanying them "Not to bring in these smelly folk again" - the army officer replied he had just lost one of his men rescuing these people and he would continue to rescue as many lives as they could, smell or no smell, my men are willing to lay down their lives to save a life, we will continue to do so.
If these folk wish to live in a danger zone they should carry enough insurance to cover their rescue.
All costs incurred by whoever rescues them should be fully recovered from the folk rescued, they knew what they were getting into.
Look at it another way. These people are the new trade pioneers, looking after Britain's interests abroad.
The folk from UK working in Libya have known for many many years the risks they are under working in that country but wanted to earn the large monies earned there - always knowing the UK will do everything they can to rescue thei folk with UK passports. If they want to benefit from having UK passports when they feel like it they have to pay UK taxes
If these folk wish to live in a danger zone they should carry enough insurance to cover their rescue.
All costs incurred by whoever rescues them should be fully recovered from the folk rescued, they knew what they were getting into.
Sorry Pat, I disagree.
Lybia has been one of the most stable countries in the middle east over the past few decades.
Business relations between Britain and Lybia have been good.
Hardly living in a "danger zone".
We've been at war with Egypt more recently than with Syria, do you suggest nobody should have been going on holiday there?
As for the tax situation, nobody working there is "avoiding" taxes, they're playing within the rules of the tax system. If the UK don't require them to pay, what are they doing wrong?
People working in the merchant navy are often tax exempt due to time at sea, are they not entitled to UK protection either?
And just remember, the country benefits immensely from these skilled individuals. BP has huge assets in Lybia, and almost every UK pension fund has significant investment in BP.
Lybia has been one of the most stable countries in the middle east over the past few decades.
Nonsense. Stability is no measure of what's going on internally. Take Burma (sorry, Myanmar). Probably the most stable country in the world because it is controlled by a military dictatorship that makes Hitler seem like a Liberal Democrat. Like Libya, the multi-national oil companies harvest the rewards and turn a blind eye to terrible human atrocities while keeping their workforces safely ensconced in enclaves, and suck up to the junta.
And as for the great work BP are doing in Libya to return value to the British taxpayer, then that's tosh too as their whole operations there have stalled and never got off the ground despite the Megrahi deal in 2007/8 that got them back in there.
orkneycadian
24-Feb-11, 12:27
'Twas the same a few weeks ago with Egypt. Numerous stories of folk going there for a holiday after the trouble kicked off and then complained it wasn't to their liking when they arrived! :roll: Everyone was to blame but themselves. Governments, Embassies, Tour Operators all got it!
If you go to another country of your own free will, whether it be for work or leisure, then you have to be responsible for your own safety, if the country you are in will not ensure it.
I tire of hearing of folk going abroad then complaining that they didn't have sausage, egg and chips of the menu, you couldn't get HP sauce and they had flies and creepy crawlies. Or that no-one spoke English, or the water tasted different from home or whatever.
Same with this. If your in a foreign country, then you can't dial 999 and expect a british emergency service to come and get you. They took the reward in the form of huge tax free salaries. This is the risk. For those that are there on holiday, well, you could have holidayed in the UK!
Nonsense. Stability is no measure of what's going on internally. Take Burma (sorry, Myanmar). Probably the most stable country in the world because it is controlled by a military dictatorship that makes Hitler seem like a Liberal Democrat. Like Libya, the multi-national oil companies harvest the rewards and turn a blind eye to terrible human atrocities while keeping their workforces safely ensconced in enclaves, and suck up to the junta.
And as for the great work BP are doing in Libya to return value to the British taxpayer, then that's tosh too as their whole operations there have stalled and never got off the ground despite the Megrahi deal in 2007/8 that got them back in there.
Not nonsense at all.
Re read my post. I was replying to the classification of the area as a "danger zone". The UK foreign office never had recommendations for UK nationals not to travel there, so why shouldn't they?
As for my "tosh" about BP, and your statement that nothing has "got off the ground" there, the fact is that BP have the drilling rights to areas likely to provide significant oil returns. The loss of these rights would certainly have an affect on their share price, and therefore UK pension funds.
I can't see why it should be the responsibility of the UK Government to rescue British citizens stuck in any of these countries that are having wide scale civil unrest at the moment. The risks of living and working in these countries are well known to any individual choosing to do so.
I can't see why it should be the responsibility of the UK Government to rescue British citizens stuck in any of these countries that are having wide scale civil unrest at the moment. The risks of living and working in these countries are well known to any individual choosing to do so.
I'm repeating myself here, but Lybia has been as safe place to work for years.
Yes, anyone travelling against foreign office advice to an area of civil unrest is, in my opinion, in the wrong, but most trapped Brits have been there long before all the demonstrations started.
The purpose of the foreign and commonwealth office is given on their website:
"The Foreign and Commonwealth Office – ‘the FCO’ or ‘the Foreign Office’ for short – is the government department responsible for promoting British interests overseas and supporting our citizens and businesses around the globe. "
Whilst I think, in the first instance, it is the oil companies that should be getting the workers out, the FCO have a duty to step in where that fails.
I'm repeating myself here, but Lybia has been as safe place to work for years.
I think your definition of 'Safe place to work' and mine may differ slightly.
I think your definition of 'Safe place to work' and mine may differ slightly.
Maybe, but mine agrees with the advice of the government.
Surely if the government have said it's safe to go somewhere, then that situation changes, that alone is justification for the government helping you return?
Maybe, but mine agrees with the advice of the government.
One of the last places i'd take advice from is the UK government.
One of the last places i'd take advice from is the UK government.
Well, there's wisdom in that comment, I can't deny.
Maybe, but mine agrees with the advice of the government.
Surely if the government have said it's safe to go somewhere, then that situation changes, that alone is justification for the government helping you return?
Of the many debates that have been on this forum and on others there is a wealth of opinion that says people should not trust the government, or government advice is at least questionable. So what makes the advice regarding Libya any more credible and trustworthy?
The government and the oil lobby want you to believe Libya is a safe place to do business because there is money to be made there, that's all.
The truth is Libyans have been fleeing their country for the last forty years because of the despotic government controlling the country.
While I have a great deal of sympathy for any workers there lets's not go overboard and commit to any kind of Entebbe style rescue mission.
The folk from UK working in Libya have known for many many years the risks they are under working in that country but wanted to earn the large monies earned there - always knowing the UK will do everything they can to rescue thei folk with UK passports. These folk should now have to pay back fully the cost of their repatriation and pay the full taxes due to the UK government. If they want to benefit from having UK passports when they feel like it they have to pay UK taxes
In 1974, I was one of the many families caught in the troubles in Cyprus - as soon as the troubles started the tourist from UK were warned to get out of the country, many thought it would blow over and did not attempt to leave - why should they interrupt and spoil their holidays. In the meantime the forces were sending all the families who were due to return to UK in the next 3 months onto aircraft to ease the situation on the sovereign base areas. These tourists did not consider the service people who would be putting their lives on the line to save them when the trouble did erupt and these tourists realised finally their lives were at risk - they soon packed out the forces bases demanding flights home! They expected to walk into a sovereign base and catch the next aircraft back to UK - often they were complaining about being kept waiting for flights, lack of fresh milk, lack of fresh clothes, being kept in areas until all paperwork could be processed and flights found for all the folk entitled to enter UK.
At this time there were all nationalities turning up, not just UK, all wanting on flights out of Cyprus. All folk who were leaving on flights to UK had to have the correct immigration authority to enter UK or UK would have been inundated with refugees, it is not a case of quick fill up an aircraft and take off for UK as many thought. I can remember many nationalities Greeks, Turks, Russians, Indian, Pakistan, Iran, American, German, French, Austrian, Swiss, Australian, Singaporean, Malaysian are some turning up expecting to be taken out of Cyprus to UK, many in their swimming costumes with no form of identification but still expecting UK to come to their aid and pay all the bills!
One lorry load of folk were brought in by United Nations from the cellar of bombed house, the person receiving them told the army officer accompanying them "Not to bring in these smelly folk again" - the army officer replied he had just lost one of his men rescuing these people and he would continue to rescue as many lives as they could, smell or no smell, my men are willing to lay down their lives to save a life, we will continue to do so.
If these folk wish to live in a danger zone they should carry enough insurance to cover their rescue.
All costs incurred by whoever rescues them should be fully recovered from the folk rescued, they knew what they were getting into.
Pat - We were based at Dhekelia SBA and I can endorse everything you said. Many people will have forgotten that the trouble occurred in two phases. The deposing of Makarious followed by the Turkish invasion. Had the tourists and ex-pat workers read the signs properly they would have left during the first week; instead they believed themselves to be invulnerable until the Turkish paras filled the skies and Turkish Sabre jets started attacking selected targets in the major towns. Who can forget the exodus from Famagusta? Suddenly everyone wanted immediate rescuing.
Surely if the government have said it's safe to go somewhere, then that situation changes, that alone is justification for the government helping you return?
If the Government says it's safe to jump off a cliff would you do it ?
Libya is 'safe' if you are in the direct employ of one of the multi-nationals, such as BP, that line the pocket and lick the proverbials of Ghadaffi, because they are kept in compounds and given special treatment. Go there working for a small independent company, or as a casual worker from a developing country and then you'll see how safe it is.
BP wangled the drilling rights as part of the broader "re-branding" of Ghadaffi which the UK assisted in. And they've done nothing with those rights and never will be able to.
neilsermk1
24-Feb-11, 13:54
Sorry Pat, I disagree.
Lybia has been one of the most stable countries in the middle east over the past few decades.
Business relations between Britain and Lybia have been good.
Hardly living in a "danger zone".
We've been at war with Egypt more recently than with Syria, do you suggest nobody should have been going on holiday there?
As for the tax situation, nobody working there is "avoiding" taxes, they're playing within the rules of the tax system. If the UK don't require them to pay, what are they doing wrong?
People working in the merchant navy are often tax exempt due to time at sea, are they not entitled to UK protection either?
And just remember, the country benefits immensely from these skilled individuals. BP has huge assets in Lybia, and almost every UK pension fund has significant investment in BP.
Consider this, individuals working in Libya have been directly, or indirectly supporting a dictatorship by contributing to trade. It can hardly be surprising that there would be a settling of accounts some day.
Why should the Armed forces be put at risk to repatriate individuals who chose to be there.
Of the many debates that have been on this forum and on others there is a wealth of opinion that says people should not trust the government, or government advice is at least questionable. So what makes the advice regarding Libya any more credible and trustworthy?
The government and the oil lobby want you to believe Libya is a safe place to do business because there is money to be made there, that's all.
The truth is Libyans have been fleeing their country for the last forty years because of the despotic government controlling the country.
While I have a great deal of sympathy for any workers there lets's not go overboard and commit to any kind of Entebbe style rescue mission.
Well, I'm not much into conspiracy theories, but if, as you suggest, the government has deliberately fooled the oil workers into believing it's safe to work there when it wasn't, then I think that is MORE of a reason to help them get home.
Yes, Lybians have been fleeing the country for years, and I'm not for a second suggesting the regime was good for the people, but foreign workers have, on the whole, not been mistreated or put at risk when there. Cubans have been fleeing their country for years too, but tens of thousands of Europeans holiday there.
I also agree, let's not go overboard, but a few chartered flights is not too much to offer these Brits.
If the Government says it's safe to jump off a cliff would you do it ?
I fail to see the comparison.
Consider this, individuals working in Libya have been directly, or indirectly supporting a dictatorship by contributing to trade. It can hardly be surprising that there would be a settling of accounts some day.
Why should the Armed forces be put at risk to repatriate individuals who chose to be there.
Who said anything about putting the armed forces at risk?
A charter plane from an airline would do the trick!
And even if a solution DID put the armed forces at risk, I would say they have more reason to risk their lives saving British citizens than fighting wars in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I fail to see the comparison.
In which case you will also fail to see the cliff edge.
orkneycadian
24-Feb-11, 14:35
The UK foreign office never had recommendations for UK nationals not to travel there, so why shouldn't they?
As far as I am aware, the UKFO have not advised UK nationals to not break into the Vatican and make an attempt on the Popes life. But it would not be heartily recommended either if you wanted to live.....
Seems folk have, and want to have, no accountability for their lives these days. "Someone else will sort it out and see us good" seems to be the way most folk live these days... :(
As far as I am aware, the UKFO have not advised UK nationals to not break into the Vatican and make an attempt on the Popes life. But it would not be heartily recommended either if you wanted to live.....
Seems folk have, and want to have, no accountability for their lives these days. "Someone else will sort it out and see us good" seems to be the way most folk live these days... :(
Come on, is that a reasonable comparison?
The UKFO is funded by the British people to support citizens around the globe. Part of that is issuing advice on travel, not to take accountability away from an individual, but to support that citizen in making an informed judgement.
Up until very recently Libya was a safe place for a Brit to work. That has changed suddenly, and because of reasons outwith the control of the British people over there.
I hope they all get home safe, even if it is at a cost to me as a tax payer. I can think of many "less worthy" taking a lot more from the state.
Walter Ego
24-Feb-11, 14:56
I smell the distinct wiff of 'wage envy' emanating from some on this thread.......
Libya was relatively safe up until just a few days ago.
I smell the distinct wiff of 'wage envy' emanating from some on this thread.......
Libya was relatively safe up until just a few days ago.
You've hit the nail on the head there Walter.
Wages and tax issues shouldn't come into it.
Brits abroad, especially if acting within the advice of the government, should be helped whenever they find themselves in trouble abroad.
Well, I'm not much into conspiracy theories, but if, as you suggest, the government has deliberately fooled the oil workers into believing it's safe to work there when it wasn't, then I think that is MORE of a reason to help them get home.
I didn't say there was a conspiracy, I don't believe there is a conspiracy. However our government has been less than honest in its dealings with Libya in recent years. Anyone with a modicum of sense would appreciate the risks of working there, especially those working deep in the interior where some of the camps are. They're two-and-a-half hours from an airport without transport.
Yes, Lybians have been fleeing the country for years, and I'm not for a second suggesting the regime was good for the people, but foreign workers have, on the whole, not been mistreated or put at risk when there. Cubans have been fleeing their country for years too, but tens of thousands of Europeans holiday there.
Fair point, but oranisations and people should be aware of the risks and plan accordingly.
If I can hark back to Pat's post and my own about Cyprus in 1974. I was aware that the Greek Army Cadre was nearing the end of it's mandated deplyment there. We all suspected that they might stay on and attempt a coup on the orders of the Greek Military Junta. Our government chose to ignore all the signs until it was too late. We knew there was the potential for trouble why didn't they?
I also agree, let's not go overboard, but a few chartered flights is not too much to offer these Brits.
Chartered planes have been deployed - better late than never. But I have to say I'm concerned that the EU is considering plans to deploy a 'Humanitarian Intervention Force'; and we all know the EU couldn't organise a party in a brewery. I'm getting worried.
I didn't say there was a conspiracy, I don't believe there is a conspiracy. However our government has been less than honest in its dealings with Libya in recent years. Anyone with a modicum of sense would appreciate the risks of working there, especially those working deep in the interior where some of the camps are. They're two-and-a-half hours from an airport without transport.
No, you never said there was a conspiracy, but you certainly suggested the public have been misled. As for "appreciating the risks" , again, Libya has been a safe place to be in recent years.
Fair point, but oranisations and people should be aware of the risks and plan accordingly.
If I can hark back to Pat's post and my own about Cyprus in 1974. I was aware that the Greek Army Cadre was nearing the end of it's mandated deplyment there. We all suspected that they might stay on and attempt a coup on the orders of the Greek Military Junta. Our government chose to ignore all the signs until it was too late. We knew there was the potential for trouble why didn't they?
I don't disagree.
But I don't think anyone could have foreseen what is happening today in Libya a month, or even a week ago.
But I don't think anyone could have foreseen what is happening today in Libya a month, or even a week ago.
After what happened in Tunisia and then in Egypt surely we can't be surprised that a significant proportion of the Libyan population would have similar aspirations? I became concerned about what might happen in Libya when the Egyptians took to Tahrir Square; although I have to admit I didn't expect the Libyan protesters to be as successful as they have been.
I hope you'll agree that our government should do all it can to help stabalise the situation and be much more aware of the country, its complex tribal culture and its history.
After what happened in Tunisia and then in Egypt surely we can't be surprised that a significant proportion of the Libyan population would have similar aspirations? I became concerned about what might happen in Libya when the Egyptians took to Tahrir Square; although I have to admit I didn't expect the Libyan protesters to be as successful as they have been.
Maybe we can't be surprised, but at the same time, retrospect is a fine thing.
I hope you'll agree that our government should do all it can to help stabalise the situation and be much more aware of the country, its complex tribal culture and its history.
I hope the situation is stabilised, but I don't know if our government are the best people to do it. The sectarian violence in Iraq is a good example of where we haven't necessarily been successful.
I do fear that this upheaval in the middle east could ultimately lead to a major war in the region.
I find the humanitarian nature of some peoples views warming, especially when tinged with the sizes of peoples wage packets and their tax status.
OK, it is foolish of those who continue to holiday or leave for holiday once trouble is brewing, or indeed flared up. But for people who may have been working there for many months or years, and possibly having made several trips previously without any issues, why would it be so ghastly for the 'government' to step in and help out those that the private sector has left stranded.
(In this case the private sector being the scheduled airlines that stopped flying thus stranding people. (Part of the same private sector that is going to pick up the pieces of all the government cuts and employ all those being laid off. ))
So what if someone goes abroad and earns 'good' money tax free. In the majority of cases they bring that money back to the UK and spend it (subject to tax (VAT)) which in turn helps the economy. In some cases these people have invested heavily in their careers, so is to earn good money in return such a bad thing?
Should every one of us make plans for our own rapid repatriation by military means if we leave these shores?
I recently went to France, a country which has seen demonstrations against their government recently. What a wicked and selfish thing I did, callously disregarding my family's and my own safety. Naturally I expected everyone else to personally cough up and pay for my return should I have required it.
I should obviously have paid out for a specific insurance plan to have a private jet / yacht on standby during my stay with a private militia force poised at a seconds notice to extricate us from any danger.
............ and be much more aware of the country, its complex tribal culture and its history.What if a disenfranchised group of Scottish dissidents grouped together to overthrow the stranglehold of Westminster? A few rallies start in the cities where the masses protest against jobs cuts and austerity measures, we've seen this. Then it descends into violence, we've seen this. Then the police lose control, more people take to the streets in aspirations of overthrowing a disliked government and looking for 'home' rule. Centuries of history start to bubble to the surface, revenge for the Highland clearances just one to mention. It descends further into sectarian violence and then splinters into modern day 'Clan' warfare with in fighting and power struggles.
I, and I imagine many others, would want to get my family to safety if anything like this happened. But then it would be my own fault because I should have seen this coming and I didn't pay enough tax, and I earned too much money.
I caught a piece on this evening's news where the daughter of one of the oil workers was concerned the government were not doing enough. But I can't think what she thought they could do. Perhaps she thought the PM would send in a squadron from the SAS and a fleet of C130s!
Well I never!:
http://arsipberita.com/show/raf-hercules-planes-rescue-150-from-libya-desert-169181.html
Well I never!:
http://arsipberita.com/show/raf-hercules-planes-rescue-150-from-libya-desert-169181.html
And the ConDem grubbyment will tell you about how the operation was supported with air cover via Harriers of the Ark Royal!
And the ConDem grubbyment will tell you about how the operation was supported with air cover via Harriers of the Ark Royal!
I linked the first one from an Indonesian new channel as some folks don't believe the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12588947
I caught a piece on this evening's news where the daughter of one of the oil workers was concerned the government were not doing enough. But I can't think what she thought they could do. Perhaps she thought the PM would send in a squadron from the SAS and a fleet of C130s!
Looks like they did just that and ignored you gronnuck
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12588947
Looks like they did just that and ignored you gronnuck
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12588947
Just like #45 above too! ;)
I caught a piece on this evening's news where the daughter of one of the oil workers was concerned the government were not doing enough. But I can't think what she thought they could do. Perhaps she thought the PM would send in a squadron from the SAS and a fleet of C130s!
I have to admit my flabber has been ghasted! I really didn't think anyone in government had the courage to task the military with a rescue mission; after all the last Prime Minister with any balls was Maggie Thatcher.
I have to admit my flabber has been ghasted! I really didn't think anyone in government had the courage to task the military with a rescue mission; after all the last Prime Minister with any balls was Maggie Thatcher.
Come on Gronnuck I reckon you knew all the time - no one could state in detail what would not happen.. and then get it totally right when it did. Even down to your mention of the SAS! 'The rescue mission was made up of around two dozen members of special forces with the team including 12 SAS and eight men from the Special Boat Service.' Hmmm..
Bed time..
I don't know, next you'll be saying that they won't be using 7 Squadron SF flight Chinooks flying from Malta to pick up more of em..
The Drunken Duck
27-Feb-11, 09:34
Some of the RAF aircraft used in this rescue can be seen here in Malta amongst the aircraft from other countries .. http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=28367 .. but 7 Squadron arent a SF squadron, the cupboard is too bare for that. Both them and 18 share the weight of that these days.
I have worked in the Oil and Gas Industry since 2002. I know a few guys who work in Libya and have done a few trips on a semi sub rig that worked off the coast of Libya, I was onboard for the tow from Gran Canaria to Malta and witnessed the luxurious refit of two cabins for the Libyan Government minders that we had to have onboard. Their only job was to be there and the company paid for the privelege !!, no one chooses to live in Libya. All the lads I know who either worked, or are working there, dont live there as you would have to be nuts. Some do but thats part of their contract but they are the minority. So the "they are all expats paying no tax" argument doesnt wash. Those guys will be paying wads of tax. But their companies should have got them out of there at the very first hint of trouble, no doubt the almighty dollar ruled their heads though.
As for Libya being a safe place to work .. the rig I was on had a panic alarm fitted in the Radio Room, the same type that is used by vessels to protect against pirates. The only answer we had for its presence (the Med is hardly a pirate hotspot) was as a contigency against the two Libyan Government reps as they were armed. What good an alarm would do against a pistol is anyones guess but there you go. The Libyan guys themselves were quite funny, they used to wander about trying to look tough. They used to go through the Radio Room files and logs whenever it suited to prove their authority. I used to just phone the galley and arrange for their food to have a few extra ingredients at mealtimes, like earwax and nasal matter. Much fun.
Personally I dont have a problem with the military being used to rescue those Brits even if there are some who havent paid tax here in a while. Thats what they are there for, the defence and protection of British citizens.
. They used to go through the Radio Room files and logs whenever it suited to prove their authority. I used to just phone the galley and arrange for their food to have a few extra ingredients at mealtimes, like earwax and nasal matter. Much fun.
It's one thing to conspire with the idiots in the kitchen to do something like that but it's a cempletely different kettle of fish to boast about it on a community website.
Perhaps you will be converted one of these days by your own signature ducky.
This one.
"To do an Assange" .. the act of pointing out the failings of others while blatantly ignoring your own.
The Drunken Duck
27-Feb-11, 11:32
It's one thing to conspire with the idiots in the kitchen to do something like that but it's a cempletely different kettle of fish to boast about it on a community website.
Perhaps you will be converted one of these days by your own signature ducky.
This one.
"To do an Assange" .. the act of pointing out the failings of others while blatantly ignoring your own.
Why dont you go outside, lean forward and tilt your head to one side. That way your brain can have the dump it so obviously needs.
The only way I could be held to account by my own signature is if I had criticised someone for doing the very thing I posted above. Which I have not. Thats why I used Assange as an example, he criticises others for doing what he just did (if that still doesnt compute I have an idiot friendly version in crayon I can send you). If you dont approve of my actions then fair enough but you werent there and having to put up with these bullying idiots who were using their power to make life nasty and uncomfortable for everyone on board.
Why dont you check what you write before you hit send, it might stop you proving yourself to be the low IQ toting dullard I always suspected.
Your behaving like an aggressive idiot ducky. Nothing I could say would make you look any worse than your capable of doing to yourself.
Now now children no fighting, but I will hold your jackets if you want to. [lol]
Im not a child Golach. I dont need anyone to hold my jacket. never did. Not my scene.
This is an open community website and sometimes somethings need challenged.
Personally I dont have a problem with the military being used to rescue those Brits even if there are some who havent paid tax here in a while. Thats what they are there for, the defence and protection of British citizens.
100% agree with that. If the military can't be used to protect British people, what can they be used for?
The Drunken Duck
27-Feb-11, 12:12
Dear Gleeber,
Agressive ?? .. really ?? .. i think you'll find your fired the first salvo. I was only replying in kind to you taking one small part of my post (and ignoring the other constructive points I made) and having a bit of a personal attack way off subject after searching my profile for a bit of ammo .. and not a very good one either. If you cant handle people having a pop back then dont do it, and if your going to go trolling then at least make it entertaining.
If you have an issue with me take it to PM. Otherwise jog on.
Ive made my issue perfectly clear ducky. No need to search your profile. Your signatures at the bottom of every post. I dont need ammo. Your a suicide bomber.
Not another!: Three RAF Hercules aircraft have rescued a further 150 people - including 20 Britons - from the Libyan desert,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12592849
Not another!: Three RAF Hercules aircraft have rescued a further 150 people - including 20 Britons - from the Libyan desert,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12592849
Well done Crab Air!!
Not another!: Three RAF Hercules aircraft have rescued a further 150 people - including 20 Britons - from the Libyan desert,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12592849
Well done to all involved!
We had the SBS (sorry - "special" gentlemen from the royal marines) "invade" our oil platform for their anti-terrorist training. Quite a sight to behold.
It's reassuring to know that our forces can react to different situations and step in when the need arises.
Oystercatcher
28-Feb-11, 11:25
I would love to see some of these tax-free salaries that you are all on about. I work abroad and pay my fair share and the rest of tax every year. I work away for half the year and as such, still have to pay full UK tax. You only dodge tax if you are in the UK for a maximum of 90 days and meet very strict residency rules. Some countries have double-taxation agreements with the UK whereby taxes paid in a foreign country are offset against UK tax, but the bottom line is that the taxes have been paid. Your average man working abroad for 4 weeks on/4 weeks off is paying more tax than your Mr Bloggs who sleeps in his own bed every night.
There are also people on here mumping about 'huge tax free salaries'; the guys get good TAXABLE money for being away from home, missing half their children's lives, missing funerals etc.
I don't think it is the Government's responsibility to get guys out, the oil firms put them in and therefore should remove them.
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