View Full Version : Double Summer Time
achingale
21-Feb-11, 16:07
I have a read of the prospect of the Governments proposal on double summer time. Thurso would have long summer days of around 18 hours but only 6 hours of daylight in the depths of winter. I feel sorry for folk who suffer from SADS. Mind you, Shetland will be worse in winter - will they have any daylight at all if the proposal goes ahead???
"Thurso would have long summer days of around 18 hours but only 6 hours of daylight in the depths of winter"
Thurso would have the same ammount of daylight summer and winter as it has at the moment. Double summertime does not affect the amount of daylight hours onlywhen we have it in relation to the clock.
Dog-eared
21-Feb-11, 16:30
How can you stop the sun shining by changing your clock ? Amazing !!
Metalattakk
21-Feb-11, 16:37
Thank goodness the government are looking after us, letting us have so much daylight during the summer. Could they not leave the light on a bit longer for us in the winter though?
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z55/Metalattakk/f_doh.gif
Yeah, I'm finding it interesting how they're selling this one. No doubt they'll kid some of us into thinking were getting more 'sunshine' and then tax us for the privilege!
It's like a Viz top tips moment, maybe Roger Mellie is the new director of conmunications.
fingalmacool
21-Feb-11, 17:09
So thats why they are putting so many freekin windmills up around us, because we will need the extra power/light to see where we are going and keep us warm, very thoughtful indeed. they better warn the migrating birds, because you know how hazardous these windmills are:confused
Wonder if those making the proposals have small children?
Try and keep mine in bed 2 hrs later than their usual time of 6am...or put them to bed 2hrs later than 7pm in winter and up 2 hrs earlier and down 2 hrs earlier in the summer!
Its a 3 week fight as it stands with only 1 hrs difference......
Yeah, I'm finding it interesting how they're selling this one. No doubt they'll kid some of us into thinking were getting more 'sunshine' and then tax us for the privilege!
It wouldn't be the first time the goverment taxed sunlight: that's where the saying "daylight robbery" come from (tax imposed on the number of windows in a house)
Ju, the term daylight robbery was termed because of Willim Pitt the Younger 1759 - 1806 when he was Prime Minister he was the man who invented Income tax, along with many other taxes, as the country needed money to fight Naploeon. He thought up the window tax depending on how many windows you had in your house or building depended on how much tax was demanded.
The canny folks from Auld Reekie were in the middle of building the New Town at the time, so simply made the windows false, many can still be seen in the New Town, they were know as Pitt's Portraits.
Ju, the term daylight robbery was termed because of Willim Pitt the Younger 1759 - 1806 when he was Prime Minister he was the man who invented Income tax, along with many other taxes, as the country needed money to fight Naploeon. He thought up the window tax depending on how many windows you had in your house or building depended on how much tax was demanded.
The canny folks from Auld Reekie were in the middle of building the New Town at the time, so simply made the windows false, many can still be seen in the New Town, they were know as Pitt's Portaits.
There's plenty of windows blocked up with flagstones in the old town in Thurso for the same reason.
LOL! This thread made me chuckle.
Has anyone thought to ask the sun what it thinks of the new proposals??
orkneycadian
21-Feb-11, 18:30
Could we not just have folk going round the place letting off shotguns outside members of the publics bedroom windows at 06:00 (GMT) to encourage them to get their backsides out of bed at a reasonable hour of the day?
The problem is not that the clocks are not synchronised to the daylight, its that lazy folk don't get up till 10 am (or later) then moan that its getting dark again and they have only just got up! :cool:
Leave it all alone. GMT all year round, and a tax on hours in bed after 06:00! The peak of daylight is 12 mid-day (give or take some minutes here and there depending on your longitude) Make use of it. Getting up at mid-day means its all downhill from there, and your day has hardly started!
Emm...'scuse my hignorance but just what are the 'suggested' proposals? may I ask!
Ju, the term daylight robbery was termed because of Willim Pitt the Younger 1759 - 1806 when he was Prime Minister he was the man who invented Income tax, along with many other taxes, as the country needed money to fight Naploeon. He thought up the window tax depending on how many windows you had in your house or building depended on how much tax was demanded.
The canny folks from Auld Reekie were in the middle of building the New Town at the time, so simply made the windows false, many can still be seen in the New Town, they were know as Pitt's Portraits.
Ah, that's where they are going. Give us longer days, tax us for it on the number and size of windows.... I'm on to Wickes tomorrow to order 1000 bricks, sand and cement. Gotta brick up the patio doors and all the windows in the conservatory. lol
Duncansby
21-Feb-11, 20:55
Shetland will be worse in winter - will they have any daylight at all if the proposal goes ahead???
There is only about a 10 minute difference between sun rise and set times between Caithness and Shetland. There is quite a few websites where you can see sun rise and set times throughout the year: there is one site here (http://www.sunrisesunsetmap.com/).
Emm...'scuse my hignorance but just what are the 'suggested' proposals? may I ask!
The proposal is to put the clocks forward 1 hour from GMT during winter and then another hour forward during the summer. So we'll have sun rise at 10am during the depths of winter and its still going to be dark when most folk finish work.
oldmarine
21-Feb-11, 21:19
Some interesting comments on this thread. I remember the two different times I was in Northern Alaska. The first time was in November-December and I never saw much Sun. The next time was in June and all I saw was Sun. That's what my 85-1/2 year old memory remembers I think. I found it quite boring both times not having ever been used to anything like that.
orkneycadian
22-Feb-11, 14:51
The "situation" we have at the moment - folk getting up late then moaning there is not enough daylight in the day for them - must be in part precipitated by the same effect at the other end of the day, that is, folk staying up till half into the night then becoming accustomed to going to bed at 12 midnight or 1 am or whenever. Then they have to sleep till 8 or 9 or 10 or whatever because they went to bed so late the night before. In other words, their (and to some extent our) habits have slipped round the clock.
If double summertime came in, its feasible that those, especially here in the north, that need daylight, could slip round the clock again to balance their working day. If the sun in the winter only rises at 10 am (or later), then I can see farmers, construction workers and the like saying, OK, lets move the working day from 10 am to 7 pm, not so that their working day fits the notional 9 - 5 that half the country think the whole country works, but to fit the working day to the available daylight.
So you move the clocks forward, then half the workers in the country move their working hours forward to "win back" lost winter morning light. Net result, exactly the same as we have at the moment - Folk starting work at sunrise and stopping work at sunrise minus however many hours. :roll:
I really think the whole concept is ill thought out and a result of people simply refusing to get up an hour or 3 earlier in the day and making use of all available daylight. The proponents of this idea seem to have led themselves to believe that as a result, there will be more daylight in a 24 hour period. Wrong!
Efforts on making more use of daylight would be better placed if they encouraged the population to get back to living their lives according to the available daylight, not staying up all night and sleeping all day! Some ideas....
Shops, council offices, doctors surgeries etc to open earlier in the day to encourage the folk who only start at 9 or 10 to start earlier like farmers, construction workers, etc.
Pubs to shut earlier at night to encourage folk to go home and go to bed!
TV Closedowns to resume, ideally no later than 11 pm. Its only bruck after then anyway. Back to the black screen with the dot in the middle and the wheeing sound to force you to switch off your TV!
Nightclubs, kebab shops and the like to shut much earlier to stop folk wandering around the street fighting and shouting at 4 am, then going home and staying in bed till 4pm the following day!
Banning the serving of "All day breakfasts" in cafes, and limiting the serving of breakfasts to before 7 am!
We have already slipped round the clock once. Move the clock again and I can see us being back to square 1 in a few years when folk get up at 10 am, start work at 11, finish at 8 pm and go to bed at 2 am. Then, like now, they will feel cheated on daylight and there will be suggestions for double double summertime! :eek:
If double summertime came in, its feasible that those, especially here in the north, that need daylight, could slip round the clock again to balance their working day. If the sun in the winter only rises at 10 am (or later), then I can see farmers, construction workers and the like saying, OK, lets move the working day from 10 am to 7 pm, not so that their working day fits the notional 9 - 5 that half the country think the whole country works, but to fit the working day to the available daylight.
So you move the clocks forward, then half the workers in the country move their working hours forward to "win back" lost winter morning light. Net result, exactly the same as we have at the moment - Folk starting work at sunrise and stopping work at sunrise minus however many hours.
I really think the whole concept is ill thought out and a result of people simply refusing to get up an hour or 3 earlier in the day and making use of all available daylight. The proponents of this idea seem to have led themselves to believe that as a result, there will be more daylight in a 24 hour period. Wrong!Yep! We're not getting anything extra, there is no double, we're just moving it.
In this day and age we live and work a longer day but also have access to plenty of light & facilities to help us with this. There is no extra daylight so this bunkum that we are somehow, magically going to get 'double' sunlight by moving the hours about is a huge white lie.
I can accept moving the hour forward or back and leaving it there rather than changing BST / GMT etc. twice a year, but please don't try and fill us with bull pooh!
Efforts on making more use of daylight would be better placed if they encouraged the population to get back to living their lives according to the available daylight, not staying up all night and sleeping all day! Some ideas....
Shops, council offices, doctors surgeries etc to open earlier in the day to encourage the folk who only start at 9 or 10 to start earlier like farmers, construction workers, etc.
Pubs to shut earlier at night to encourage folk to go home and go to bed!
TV Closedowns to resume, ideally no later than 11 pm. Its only bruck after then anyway. Back to the black screen with the dot in the middle and the wheeing sound to force you to switch off your TV!
Nightclubs, kebab shops and the like to shut much earlier to stop folk wandering around the street fighting and shouting at 4 am, then going home and staying in bed till 4pm the following day!
Banning the serving of "All day breakfasts" in cafes, and limiting the serving of breakfasts to before 7 am!
Now I think that's a tad draconian!
Duncansby
22-Feb-11, 16:17
If the sun in the winter only rises at 10 am (or later), then I can see farmers, construction workers and the like saying, OK, lets move the working day from 10 am to 7 pm, not so that their working day fits the notional 9 - 5 that half the country think the whole country works, but to fit the working day to the available daylight.
I heard one argument in favour of the double summertime based on the fact that people could go to the pub for an hour or so after work! This was from a tourism representative but since when do people need daylight to go to the pub?! The way he was speaking you'd think there was a curfew in place and no one ventured out in the dark. Much more sense to have daylight during working hours when its most needed.
Efforts on making more use of daylight would be better placed if they encouraged the population to get back to living their lives according to the available daylight, not staying up all night and sleeping all day! Some ideas....
Shops, council offices, doctors surgeries etc to open earlier in the day to encourage the folk who only start at 9 or 10 to start earlier like farmers, construction workers, etc.
Pubs to shut earlier at night to encourage folk to go home and go to bed!
TV Closedowns to resume, ideally no later than 11 pm. Its only bruck after then anyway. Back to the black screen with the dot in the middle and the wheeing sound to force you to switch off your TV!
Nightclubs, kebab shops and the like to shut much earlier to stop folk wandering around the street fighting and shouting at 4 am, then going home and staying in bed till 4pm the following day!
Banning the serving of "All day breakfasts" in cafes, and limiting the serving of breakfasts to before 7 am!
Those measures you propose are just backward.
What right do you, or the government, have to tell me when to go to bed?
Or when I can watch TV?
Or when I can have sausage, bacon and egg?
What about shift workers? The police, the ambulance teams, the doctors and nurses? Should they not be allowed to watch TV after (or before) a hard days work just because they're working anti-social hours?
The way he was speaking you'd think there was a curfew in place and no one ventured out in the dark.
In some place (like Port Gower, or so I have been told), you verture out after dark at your own risk! ;)
What about shift workers? The police, the ambulance teams, the doctors and nurses? Should they not be allowed to watch TV after (or before) a hard days work just because they're working anti-social hours?
Nope - sorry... they will have to work daylight hours as well. Since all burglers and criminals will be going to bed at stated 11.00pm then there will be no need for services at night. People will be dying in their beds like they should be instead of out on the streets, so no need for ambulances.
Goodness, I love this thread!!
orkneycadian
22-Feb-11, 18:31
I heard one argument in favour of the double summertime based on the fact that people could go to the pub for an hour or so after work!
Double summertime not required to be able to get more light to go to the pub. Get up at a decent hour in the morning, go to work at a decent hour, come home ata decent hour then go and enjoy your time at the pub in the daylight! Simples!
Those measures you propose are just backward.
What right do you, or the government, have to tell me when to go to bed?
Or when I can watch TV?
Or when I can have sausage, bacon and egg?
What about shift workers? The police, the ambulance teams, the doctors and nurses? Should they not be allowed to watch TV after (or before) a hard days work just because they're working anti-social hours?
1. Toungue in cheek! ;)
2. Err, I believe the same Goverment that are thinking of telling you at what hour it will get dark, and by association, what you will call the hour in which you go to bed! If they are expecting to make use of all this "extra" evening light, then the least you can do is go to bed a bit later to make all their trouble worthwhile!
3. As 1
4. As 1
;)
1. Toungue in cheek! ;)
;)
Whoooosh.......
2. Err, I believe the same Goverment that are thinking of telling you at what hour it will get dark, and by association, what you will call the hour in which you go to bed! If they are expecting to make use of all this "extra" evening light, then the least you can do is go to bed a bit later to make all their trouble worthwhile!
I disagree with that. If I start at 8, I'll get up at 7 having gone to bed at 11 to ensure 8 hours sleep. Light or dark doesn't come into it.
Duncansby
22-Feb-11, 19:10
Double summertime not required to be able to get more light to go to the pub. Get up at a decent hour in the morning, go to work at a decent hour, come home ata decent hour then go and enjoy your time at the pub in the daylight! Simples!;)
I get your point but what I was driving at, except when I've been in the pub obviously, was why do you need daylight when your in the pub?! I'm all for beer gardens but I'm no sure I'd be keen to sit out in one in the middle of December!
billmoseley
23-Feb-11, 16:26
i have done all my sums and worked out always round this but as far as i can see we will still get the same number of hours daylight and the same number of hours darkness so i reckon no permanent damage will be done to humans or animals alike lolololol
orkneycadian
23-Feb-11, 19:17
....so i reckon no permanent damage will be done to humans or animals alike lolololol
Aha. So you dont feel that bairns out in the dark waiting for the school bus 2 hours before sunrise is likely to cause anyone any harm? Its bad enough at the moment when its just the very darkest months of December and a bit of January, but this hare-brained scheme will mean that the season of risk is extended by quite a lot of weeks!
billmoseley
23-Feb-11, 19:36
Aha. So you dont feel that bairns out in the dark waiting for the school bus 2 hours before sunrise is likely to cause anyone any harm? Its bad enough at the moment when its just the very darkest months of December and a bit of January, but this hare-brained scheme will mean that the season of risk is extended by quite a lot of weeks! ha ha no the bairns will be fine cos i'm driving the school bus lolololo9l
Duncansby
23-Feb-11, 19:58
ha ha no the bairns will be fine cos i'm driving the school bus lolololo9l
Ok so you ken where your pick up points are and are on the look out for the bairns but what about all the other folk going to work, passing the kids as they wait by the side of the road in the pitch black? Or as the kids, cross the road, or walk to the pick up point?
billmoseley
27-Feb-11, 19:45
give them all high vis jackets and then they will be well seen and we will all live happily ever after
First..thanks Duncansby for your reply...so between 'Double Daylight' and the 'Big Society'..does He/they think we're going to be taken in by all this....hype, but now it's been said will it be kept!!!!
Anyway is it not just another way of getting us to fall into European times as been tried before, it is certainly not to our advanage here, maybe in London though?
Aha. So you dont feel that bairns out in the dark waiting for the school bus 2 hours before sunrise is likely to cause anyone any harm? Its bad enough at the moment when its just the very darkest months of December and a bit of January, but this hare-brained scheme will mean that the season of risk is extended by quite a lot of weeks!
If there was a serious risk to children in the darker winter days the parents wouldn't adhere to the school uniform rules that insist High School pupils wear a black uniform.
changilass
27-Feb-11, 23:15
If it is thought that there is serious risk to kids then the schools can always change their opening and closing times.
tonkatojo
27-Feb-11, 23:21
If it is thought that there is serious risk to kids then the schools can always change their opening and closing times.
You don't half talk common sense Changi, but is this too easy for some.
I really am struggling with this, mebbe I'm just thick.
But in the world we live in today when we expect to pick up the phone at all hours to rant at some poor Indian about our broadband, demand 24 hr banking and expect shops to have late openings and not close fer lunch to satisfy our whims. And be able to lob into Tesco at 9pm at night fer milk or crate o' stella, betta still we demand them to deliver to us, at home, at a time of our suiting (including late evening, in the darkness) but we whinge about it being dark in the winter.
Move the hours or call them what you want, change the times backward and forward all you want. Rebrand it, put a bell and whistle on it and call it coco, it doesn't change a damn thing!!
The alignment of the sun, moon, stars and intergalactic ether are beyond my, your's, Davy Cameron, Katie Price, Gaddafi and Russel Grants control. It's a longer time dark in the winter and a longer time bright in the summer, deal with it!
ShelleyCowie
28-Feb-11, 00:09
lmao @ Orkneycadian! I could not live that way! Up at 6am, laughs and poops you must be having there. Im a late bedder, earlyish riser. But 6am....thats not even a time haha!
Leave the clocks and the sun alone! Bet nobody took into consideration about the moon? He has a say too!
orkneycadian
28-Feb-11, 11:07
I happened to notice on a couple of shop doors yesterday in Kirkwall, 2 shops side by side, 1 opens 10-5 Monday to Friday, the other 12-5 Monday to Friday. The latter does open earlier on a Saturday though - 10 - 5!
Shifting the clocks to double time is a futile exercise when somefolk are slipping their own clocks even further!
I'll be willing to wager that the owner and staff of the shop that only opens at 12pm won't be up at the crack of dawn making use of the daylight, but will be burning the midnight oil and be some of the ones looking forward to double summer time to compensate them for not starting till mid-day!
That then affects lots of otehr folk who then think "Well, its no worth getting up and going shopping in the morning, as half the shops these days don't open till the afternoon". Before you know it, the whole population are back onto nightshift again, even with double, triple or quadruple summer time!
As Phill says "Deal with it!". Opening your shop at midday, then hoping someone will shift the clocks to suit your lifestyle is not dealing with it....
Duncansby
28-Feb-11, 11:32
You don't half talk common sense Changi, but is this too easy for some.
So where do you put your kids if the school doesn't open until 10 and your supposed to start work at 8.30?
tonkatojo
28-Feb-11, 11:45
So where do you put your kids if the school doesn't open until 10 and your supposed to start work at 8.30?
Try flexi time, or get the office work place to realign work hours to suit changes of the clock.
Duncansby
28-Feb-11, 13:04
Try flexi time, or get the office work place to realign work hours to suit changes of the clock.
Unfortunately not everybody works in a job which can provide flexitime. Is it going to get to the stage where nothing opens and nobody starts work until 10am in the north of Scotland during the winter months; all because the south of England wants more light in the evenings in the belief that this will stimulate the economy and increase tourism. How is darkness until 10am going to benefit the north? It’s not going to increase tourism and if services like schools are pushed back until 10am this is bound to have a knock on impact on other services and business.
tonkatojo
28-Feb-11, 13:45
Unfortunately not everybody works in a job which can provide flexitime. Is it going to get to the stage where nothing opens and nobody starts work until 10am in the north of Scotland during the winter months; all because the south of England wants more light in the evenings in the belief that this will stimulate the economy and increase tourism. How is darkness until 10am going to benefit the north? It’s not going to increase tourism and if services like schools are pushed back until 10am this is bound to have a knock on impact on other services and business.
Every where has problems with daylight, even southern hemisphere business can accommodate the northern hemisphere. It is a problem but government (UK/Scottish) are meant to deal with this type of thing are they not.
Surely tourists if informed of 2 hour difference could adjust their schedule. Farmers just start their day to suit what the seasons dictate them.
orkneycadian
27-Mar-11, 18:02
Does the fact the clocks only went forward by 1 hour this morning mean that this hare brained scheme has been laid to rest for at least another year? (century preferably....)
T
Efforts on making more use of daylight would be better placed if they encouraged the population to get back to living their lives according to the available daylight, not staying up all night and sleeping all day! Some ideas....
Shops, council offices, doctors surgeries etc to open earlier in the day to encourage the folk who only start at 9 or 10 to start earlier like farmers, construction workers, etc.
Pubs to shut earlier at night to encourage folk to go home and go to bed!
TV Closedowns to resume, ideally no later than 11 pm. Its only bruck after then anyway. Back to the black screen with the dot in the middle and the wheeing sound to force you to switch off your TV!
Nightclubs, kebab shops and the like to shut much earlier to stop folk wandering around the street fighting and shouting at 4 am, then going home and staying in bed till 4pm the following day!
Banning the serving of "All day breakfasts" in cafes, and limiting the serving of breakfasts to before 7 am!
If what you propose was implimented, then all this going to bed early would produce is an explosion in the population.
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