View Full Version : Human Rights for Criminals
Countryman
27-Aug-06, 10:08
Human Rights for Criminals ---- Have your say
The chief inspector of prisons in Scotland has launched a consultation document which sets out fundamental rights for the nearly 7,000 prisoners serving time in Scotland's jails. It recommends that they should enjoy a range of rights, including staff addressing them by their first names, fresh air in cells, clean sheets, daily exercise, frequent provision of clean underwear and daily fruit and vegetables.
May be even room service.
Kingetter
27-Aug-06, 10:16
Maybe the term 'prison' will be removed, to be replaced by something like
H.M.'s Holiday Homes - short and long term bookings taken.
muddywilli
27-Aug-06, 10:26
I feel that prisoners should all be let out.
To work in chain gangs, sweeping the streets, digging ditches and working in quarries by hand.
Unfair i hear some say... well don't do the crime then. I'm not suggesting they get treated badly but if they want nice things if life then they should have to work for them.. just like me and you do.
Actually they will still be better off, i have to pay tax on what i earn and v.a.t. on what i buy.... prison, not a bad life.. hey.
Bobinovich
27-Aug-06, 11:29
I have to agree - prison seems like a cushy little number these days. It seems that the only real difference between inside and outside is freedom.
However those inside get off by not having to pay for food, shelter, heating, TV licence, council tax, etc. - although I'm not sure who has to pay for council tax, rent, etc. for their real houses while they're in though.
Where's the deterrent? What ever happened to doing hard time? It seems the only ones paying the price for crime these days are the victims...[disgust]
I have to agree - prison seems like a cushy little number these days. It seems that the only real difference between inside and outside is freedom.
However those inside get off by not having to pay for food, shelter, heating, TV licence, council tax, etc. - although I'm not sure who has to pay for council tax, rent, etc. for their real houses while they're in though.
Where's the deterrent? What ever happened to doing hard time? It seems the only ones paying the price for crime these days are the victims...[disgust]
I am sure I remember a song in the folk clubs in the 60's called the "Saughton Hotel" all about HMP Saughton
Naefearjustbeer
27-Aug-06, 11:37
They should be breaking rocks every day winds snow or rain. They will maybe think twice about breaking the law.
What about Boot Camp, American style?
They tried it on young offenders and it worked wonders.
Prison does seem rather a soft option as most offenders reoffend and end up back inside.
Within two years of the end of a sentence, 50% of Scottish cons will be back inside. This a fair indication that the system does not work and jail is no deterrent. I am a bit more familiar with the inside of a cell than most people who wisely pontificate on these boards with information supplied by the media and I can tell you that prisoners already enjoy most of what the Inspector has called for. If you treat the officers like people they will do the same back and first name terms are enjoyed by both parties. Fruit and vegetables are adequately supplied and the windows are easilly opened. Clean laundry, both sheets and underwear, are supplied regularly and no-one needs go without. Exercise can be enjoyed almost every day, weather permitting, and the gyms are well equipped. The screws don't knock on the doors, however, but the sound of a key turning is adequate warning that your cell is going to be looked in.
Porterfield is known as a holiday camp among the prisoners and is indeed not very hard to put up with, particularly by those who do not enjoy a good lifestyle when free. Saughton, since it has been rebuilt, is a clean, spacious hotel-like building and not at all onerous to be in and this can be said of most of the Scottish prisons.
If we wish a jail sentence to be a deterrent then the whole system must change and a much tougher regime introduced. Criminals are criminals and should be taught a lesson that will stop them re-offending. This is particularly true for those who repeatedly offend and don't care if a custodial sentence is applied. It must be remembered that the punishment should fit the crime and there many people inside for the wrong reasons who, in a sane society, would not be put into the jail population per se at all and there are those who are in for life or very long sentences who would not be likely to re-offend who need to be treated differently.
There is no complete answer to the problems our society faces in a world where crime is increasing daily. Jail is not the answer, no matter how many changes are made to the system. We are supposed to be a progressing civilised country and we need to do something new to reverse the trend and stop the increase because our draconian laws and antiquated attitudes are achieving nothing except create a sub-culture that is in prison most of the time because their lives outside are hardly tolerable.
Whitewater
27-Aug-06, 20:32
Prisoners should have the same rights as they left their victims with, no more, no less.
Prisoners should have the same rights as they left their victims with, no more, no less.
And when there are no victims??
It recommends that they should enjoy a range of rights, including staff addressing them by their first names, fresh air in cells, clean sheets, daily exercise, frequent provision of clean underwear and daily fruit and vegetables.
May be even room service.
Well all those things should be provided. It is their lack of liberty that is the punishment, hopefully these prisoners will take their place back in Society eventually with thoughts that Justice has been served and not Retribution...
Well all those things should be provided. It is their lack of liberty that is the punishment, hopefully these prisoners will take their place back in Society eventually with thoughts that Justice has been served and not Retribution...
In a perfect world you would be right but in the real world of the con most prisoners are not capable of seeing any difference, or perhaps not willing to see any difference between punishment and retribution.
In a perfect world you would be right but in the real world of the con most prisoners are not capable of seeing any difference, or perhaps not willing to see any difference between punishment and retribution.
Therein lies the weakness in your view, you are tailor-making the System based on the views of the criminal minority and not the law abiding majority. If we can't set an example for how to live their lives within the law then the criminals won't take any notice anyway. If imprisonment is not a deterrent then I'm afraid they will be destined for a life in and out of prison. When they get to 70+ and they look back on their lives and come to the conclusion that they have wasted it, then so be it...
Therein lies the weakness in your view, you are tailor-making the System based on the views of the criminal minority and not the law abiding majority. If we can't set an example for how to live their lives within the law then the criminals won't take any notice anyway. If imprisonment is not a deterrent then I'm afraid they will be destined for a life in and out of prison. When they get to 70+ and they look back on their lives and come to the conclusion that they have wasted it, then so be it...
I was one of the law abiding majority for many years before I made "my mistakes" and became one of the criminal minority. I therefore am capable of seeing the situation from both sides of the fence. The constantly re-offending con will listen to nothing and nobody who could set an example which might make the con repent and become a model citizen again and they are going to be coming in and out of prison for most of their lives.
I am not tailor-making anything Rheghead, but merely talking from personal knowledge of the subject with no rose-tinted idealistic spectacles.
Prison is not a deterrent and the prisoners already enjoy the priviliges that are being demanded.
Prison is not a deterrent.
Well if it is that cushy then they sure don't half try not to go there going by all the howlers that they say in Court.
Personally, if you see prison as a deterrent pure and simple then you are demanding too much of it, it is just one form of punshments that is available to the Courts.
If there is an answer then let us hear it.
Well if it that cushy then they sure don't half try not to go there going by all the howlers that they say in Court.
Personally, if you see prison as a deterrent pure and simple then you are demanding too much of it, it is just one form of punshments that is available to the Courts.
If there is an answer then let us hear it.
One has to play the game, hasn't one, even cons. Anything to avoid it except going straight.:D
I saw prison as a deterrent before I experienced the old regime for a brief time in 1982 and I still considered it a deterrent until I was incarcerated in 2003 in the new regime. Prison as it now stands is no deterrent at all to the criminally minded although it might discourage drunk drivers and others who find themselves before the judge because of a one off mistake when drunk or otherwise out of control.
If there is an answer beyond making prisons like the old picture of American chain gangs breaking rocks in the hot sun then I haven't sussed it. Make prison hell on earth and it might deter some, but certainly not all, potential prisoners.
Gleber2, I take your point that different criminals will respond differently to the prospect of prison but I am fairly sure that a wee peptalk with them to find out a punishment that will deter them from future crimes will simply not work.
Jail might not be the answer but it'll have to do until something else comes along.
Hardened prisoners need to be treated with respect and given the same human rights as you and me otherwise we will be displaying much the same attitudes towards them as they displayed towards society and resulted with them ending up in jail.
I know what needs to be done in this clever modern world we all live in and complain about so much. Most of these hardened criminals would have been spotted as problem youngsters from an early age. The symptoms are all around us, now! We all know a young kid who is displaying those tendancies which will end with him doing time before he sees the error of his ways.
How come, many of those hardened criminals who were problem children, were let down by us?
There are thousands of dedicated professionals working in those problem areas but things seem to be getting worse. It needs to start there! I know some of you will be protesting, what about the parents, but they havnt got a clue either.
I have no idea how social work works, nor the philosophies behind it, but somethings not working.
Everyone will have their own opinion about where the problems lie. Some will say its too much political correctness, whilst others will be calling for the return of the wheep. I blame you and me and them.
Gleber2, I take your point that different criminals will respond differently to the prospect of prison but I am fairly sure that a wee peptalk with them to find out a punishment that will deter them from future crimes will simply not work.
Of course not. The naivity(sp) of the general public about prisons and the justice system is sometimes quite astonishing and is very influenced by prison portrayals on the small and large screens. One has to spend some time in a prison to attune to what is essentially a separate reality in order to truly understand the system. This understanding, however, does not give me any answers as to what can be done to ameliorate the situation. People are not born criminals. Address the reasons behind the slip into criminality and we might be able to do something about the situation.
Address the reasons behind the slip into criminality and we might be able to do something about the situation.
I fully agree, but that has nothing to do with the Criminal Justice system but more to do with politics and social work. I often see the cliche that the best place for kids is with the parents in a home. But it seems to me that if a mother is an alky and the father is a skally then where will the good example gonna come from? I suspect there is no answer, criminality is just a consequence of life so Society has just got to keep on in a straight line and deal with every generation as it comes across them.
I fully agree, but that has nothing to do with the Criminal Justice system but more to do with politics and social work. I often see the cliche that the best place for kids is with the parents in a home. But it seems to me that if a mother is an alky and the father is a skally then where will the good example gonna come from? I suspect there is no answer, Society has just got to keep on in a straight line and deal with every generation as it comes across them.
True words Rheghead. We finally agree with each other but I fear for the future.
But it seems to me that if a mother is an alky and the father is a skally then where will the good example gonna come from? I suspect there is no answer, criminality is just a consequence of life so Society has just got to keep on in a straight line and deal with every generation as it comes across them.
The good example could come from you and me. I remember someone posting on here years ago about how communities didnt look out for other peoples kids any more. Personally, i dont know if they ever did, but somewhere in that area lies at least part of an answer.
Naefearjustbeer
28-Aug-06, 01:48
There was a time when a well meaning adult would give a wayward youth a clip round the lughole or a kick on the backside for the mischief they get up to. Can you imagine what would happen these days, Assault charges pressed againt the adult after they had recovered from the kicking they would recieve from said youth and his group of spotty mates. Its an ill divided world, because the parents dont disipline the kids nobody else can either for fear of injury or criminal charges.
Prisoners should have basic rights. The right to food, clean clothing, private toilet facilities etc, but the law has become ridiculous when they allow them to sue for such things as slopping out. People who break things should be made to pay for them. Life should mean life. And minor criminals should do a proper community service for their area eg cleaning our beaches and rivers. Again it seems the criminals have more rights than their victims. What an unjust world.
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