View Full Version : Scottish Access Rights Legislation.
Do some landowners just not get it or what? Unless they have an exemption or their property falls in one of the categories that are exempt from the new Access Laws they've got to take down their "No Camping", "No Dogs" and other signs and cannot make you leave or lock gates! It has gotten so bad I've taken to carrying a full summary of the law in my pocket whilst rambling or camping to give to the landowners that complain or try to move me on. Does this happen to anyone else? It happens to me and my friends constantly... and really ruins a good day out!
THE LAND IS OURS!
pultneytooner
26-Aug-06, 13:38
Do some landowners just not get it or what? Unless they have an exemption or their property falls in one of the categories that are exempt from the new Access Laws they've got to take down their "No Camping", "No Dogs" and other signs and cannot make you leave or lock gates! It has gotten so bad I've taken to carrying a full summary of the law in my pocket whilst rambling or camping to give to the landowners that complain or try to move me on. Does this happen to anyone else? It happens to me and my friends constantly... and really ruins a good day out!
THE LAND IS OURS!
The problem is that some incomers to the country are unaware of these laws.
in my experience it is mostly Scottish landowners... but, mind you last week these folk were English right enough and obviously not aware of it.. but, c'mon you would think if you owned land you'd know what the laws are...
pultneytooner
26-Aug-06, 13:45
in my experience it is mostly Scottish landowners... but, mind you last week these folk were English right enough and obviously not aware of it.. but, c'mon you would think if you owned land you'd know what the laws are...
Scottish landowners chancing their arm I think as for incomers if they buy some land up here and are unaware of these laws it can make for some unpleasant exchanges.
I thought this is how the law in Scotland stood or stands, and nobody better camp in my back green, or else
http://www.property-scotland.com/legal%20advice%20docs/trespass.html
I thought this is how the law in Scotland stood or stands, and nobody better camp in my back green, or else
http://www.property-scotland.com/legal%20advice%20docs/trespass.html
Obviously, you don't understand the law either. Because you must stay a reasonable distance from peoples houses! That's the law and common sense should dictate that anyway. I'm speaking about camping way out in the middle of nowhere. Or someones field even... as long as they aren't growing anything in it and your not close to houses.
Here is a summary of the Legislation....
http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/upload/1.4%20Access%20Legislation%20summary.pdf
Obviously, you don't understand the law either. Because you must stay a reasonable distance from peoples houses! That's the law and common sense should dictate that anyway. I'm speaking about camping way out in the middle of nowhere. Or someones field even... as long as they aren't growing anything in it and your not close to houses.
Why would I particularly want to know this piece of Legislation?
I don't trespass, I don't go camping, I do not and would not squat on another persons property, having been brought up on farms in my younger days, I would never camp on a farmers land without first getting permission, even if the field looked empty.
So, then don't know it. I think most people would have the decency to ask or let the landowner know... but, when you're in the middle of a Glen with noone about... you're perfectly entitled to do so... and I think it's a perfectly fair law. I do go camping.. all the time... and don't generally have problems with camping.. but, more so with rambling.
I know you live in Edinburgh.. if you own a house, 9.9 out of 10 people do not have mineral rights.. if the person who does own the mineral rights wants to dig up your back garden.. they won't be doing any asking...
Why would I particularly want to know this piece of Legislation?
Why post on this thread at all if you are not interested in the legislation
And off I go mushroom hunting.. I'll let you know how it pans out. :) I'll have to print a fresh copy of the law though cause had to hand the last one out a few days ago.:D
And off I go mushroom hunting.. I'll let you know how it pans out. :) I'll have to print a fresh copy of the law though cause had to hand the last one out a few days ago.
Maybe the mushrooms belong to however owns the land, and are you stealing? Not saying you are just a thought :confused
you really ought to read up on the law golach.
you really ought to read up on the law golach.
I have spent an educational afternoon reading up on the Land Reform Scotland Act 2003.
And I am surprised! I never knew such liberal laws were in power, so this was todays lesson for me. I must have a chat with my MSP and sound him out on this.
But I dare anyone to start "Wild Camping" on my property[mad]
But I dare anyone to start "Wild Camping" on my property[mad]
If all your property is in eyeshot of your house then I think you can still get that blunderbuss out?:D
Naefearjustbeer
26-Aug-06, 21:18
It really annoys me when people say you are not allowed to do something that is my right as a native of this land. A lot of people (not all incommers) quote all sorts of reasons why i cannot go somewhere. I think you have a good idea by carrying a copy of the rules with you. It would take the wind out of their sails i would think if you are able to quote specific laws. However it hasnt stopped peole throwing stones at kayakers as they paddle down a river. We are lucky in Scotland. Where we have right of access to almost everywhere. In England and Wales the paddlers only have legal access to approximately 3% of the paddleable rivers.
Naefearjustbeer
26-Aug-06, 21:20
If all your property is in eyeshot of your house then I think you can still get that blunderbuss out?:D
With plus fours and a fore and aft hat. roaring Get orf my Laaand!!!
Maybe its just me, but regardless of any laws, I would not go onto others land without first checking. Sure it may be perfectly OK to go onto land and have a picnic etc, but I for one wouldnt infringe on others property like that, regardless of the law
Its just not a normal thing to do (IMHO)
Maybe your missing the point..
THe LAND IS OURS!!!!:D I know we've been trained that is not so.. but...... THE LAND IS OORS!
Maybe your missing the point..
THe LAND IS OURS!!!!:D I know we've been trained that is not so.. but...... THE LAND IS OORS!
No its not, you have right of access that is all, it is does NOT belong to you
Rubbish Golach.. I know you only learned aboot the law 10 minutes ago... but, I can assure. you... THE LAND IS OORS!
And do you own mineral rights of your back garden? you've not answered that. but, I can assure you once again.. if they want.. when they want.. how they want.. they can huv ya! no matter how big and bad you think you might be! i am not being funny... even though you think I am against you.. I AM WITH YOU. Feudalism is dead! Rubbish.. it is alive and with a brand new meaning! Don't be kidded on! We are all being had. I am your friend and your fiend of freedom.. not your enemy.
THE LAND IS OORS!
by the way.. managed quite a few Yellow Swamp Russulas.. delish! but, handing out information was uneeded.. thank goodness!
It really annoys me when people say you are not allowed to do something that is my right as a native of this land. A lot of people (not all incommers) quote all sorts of reasons why i cannot go somewhere. I think you have a good idea by carrying a copy of the rules with you. It would take the wind out of their sails i would think if you are able to quote specific laws. However it hasnt stopped peole throwing stones at kayakers as they paddle down a river. We are lucky in Scotland. Where we have right of access to almost everywhere. In England and Wales the paddlers only have legal access to approximately 3% of the paddleable rivers.
Here here naefearjustbeer... no, it hasnae helped the kayakers..but, us as onlookers and citizens of this cushie round world ought to nip this in the bud and stand up for our fellow mates! People have forgot what direct action means and ought to sort it out oorselves and amongst us! "We'll all be union and we'll all be free!"
Humm as a farmer's daughter and a lover of the countryside. I also respect it and even if this daft government has given us the right of access, I would treat it with the greatest respect.
I would never take anything from it without the express permission of the landowner, not even a mushroom let alone a magic one!
To the average eye a field might look barren but it could be being grown for sillage/fodder for the winter and how would some one raised in the town know the difference?
Can the average hiker/rambler distinguish between a cow and a bull? I doubt it , but when they suffer injury the will slam a law suite on some one who is only going about their lawful business.
The pitching of a tent can damage the the grass , the lighting of a fire no matter how carefully done can be a hazard.
We live in a land that has increasing presures on it and to add to that for our own selfish reasons is to denigrate the whole enviroment.
Tread lightly. leave no mark and most of all RESPECT your fellow man and his land.
changilass
27-Aug-06, 02:05
Very well said Lizz
well.. Lizz.. I hope you realise I grew up in a forest bigger than size of Scotland and on a Native American Reservation... Ojibwa.. that is and I grew up with the utmost respect for the land and maybe now you understand where my views are coming from.. and I am also citizen and passport holder of Scotland and THE LAND IS OORS! I thought we were abused and discarded in our Great Northwoods but, I have come to realise how draconian the laws are in this country and will actively defend our rights to exercise our freedoms of access and observance of peace in the countryside whether we are foreign, city dwellers or other.
"In a land of 19 million acres and five million people, a mere 1252 landowners (0.025% of the population) own two-thirds of the privately owned rural land. And it is this manifest inequity in how land has been divided, how its value pocketed, its use so ill-judged, its ownership so carefully protected and defended, and its inhabitants so harshly treated over the centuries that lies at the heart of the land question and its potency as political issue." - Andy Wightman (we salute you!)
Humm as a farmer's daughter and a lover of the countryside. I also respect it and even if this daft government has given us the right of access, I would treat it with the greatest respect.
I would never take anything from it without the express permission of the landowner, not even a mushroom let alone a magic one!
To the average eye a field might look barren but it could be being grown for sillage/fodder for the winter and how would some one raised in the town know the difference?
Can the average hiker/rambler distinguish between a cow and a bull? I doubt it , but when they suffer injury the will slam a law suite on some one who is only going about their lawful business.
The pitching of a tent can damage the the grass , the lighting of a fire no matter how carefully done can be a hazard.
We live in a land that has increasing presures on it and to add to that for our own selfish reasons is to denigrate the whole enviroment.
Tread lightly. leave no mark and most of all RESPECT your fellow man and his land.
Tread lightly? do you live a mudhut with a turf roof? do you crap in a bucket and compost your excrement? no! I thought not! TREAD LIGHTLY! Can damage the grass? how about the sewage your house spews into clean water and leaches into the sea????
Isn't it wonderful, the diversity of the contributors to this thread. From Golach to Sjwahwah and all steps in between. Come off your high horses and realise that we have no choice but live together and defend our rights as human beings and citizens of the UK. Too much of our country is owned by foreigners and not enough by the people of Scotland. The land was ours before the rich parasites decided to take it all away.
Isn't it wonderful, the diversity of the contributors to this thread. From Golach to Sjwahwah and all steps in between. Come off your high horses and realise that we have no choice but live together and defend our rights as human beings and citizens of the UK. Too much of our country is owned by foreigners and not enough by the people of Scotland. The land was ours before the rich parasites decided to take it all away.
Here, here big brother! I want to take it back! I've goat a horse but, she's much too wee.!! MUhahahahahahahhahahhahaha! *gallops awa on a wee white horse!*
Here, here big brother! I want to take it back! I've goat a horse but, she's much too wee.!! MUhahahahahahahhahahhahaha! *gallops awa on a wee white horse!*
Eh? I thought big brother fizzled out on Channel 4 over a week ago. I'm not clear where you're coming from here sjwahwah - if you can't distinguish the goat from the horse. Suggest you re-wind a few posts back & try to remember where you got the Yellow Swamp Russulas. You may be able to sue the landowner for seriously affecting your ability to legibly post.
can't decipher if that was meant to be offensive or just another invitation to mob rule! *gallops awa on goat crossed Norgoat/widgets* gallop....gallop.....gallop.......:roll:
but... that's right.. here.. mob rules.. so ..... mob rule! I laughed so hard I farted.. scuse me.[lol] older than ma age! aggie! must be the funky russula... gallops... then canters then falls doon.
Eh? I thought big brother fizzled out on Channel 4 over a week ago. I'm not clear where you're coming from here sjwahwah - if you can't distinguish the goat from the horse. Suggest you re-wind a few posts back & try to remember where you got the Yellow Swamp Russulas. You may be able to sue the landowner for seriously affecting your ability to legibly post.
Are you being serious Moira? I told her to get off her high horse but she husnae goat one. I can't believe you didn't see that!!!!!I feel quite flattered to be called her Big Brother.:cool:
muddywilli
27-Aug-06, 09:07
Well i have been reading everyones views and comments on "right to roam" etc and have read the links kindly given by some members.. thanks.
Well i would expect everyone if they were unsure to seek permission from the land owner as i do in England. There are different laws for home (wiltshire) but as always i make every effort to tread lightly, try to leave none if any sign i have been there. After all the land does not belong to you so repect is of the upmost. Now as a great outdoor person who loves dog walking, cycling, camping and landrovers i am moving up to to Milton to enjoy these hobbies.
Now in England there are byways that can be driven although very polital at the present. I am a member of a respectable Landrover club and once a month drive "Green lanes" as it were. Now as in all hobbies there is a minority that abuses the rules and ruins it for the responible people. If everyone were to tread lighty, leave no litter, keep dogs under control and shut all gates there wouldn't be a problem but as it is there is the one percent that doesn't do this, hence giving land owners a reason to moan. I consider me and my good lady to be very respectful of the countryside in which we walk our dogs and wish everyone else was to... but we don't live in a perfect world... do we.
The Austrailian Aborigines have a much more sensible view of things. They believe the land owns them. That's one of the reasons why there was so much trouble when white settlers came- the worldviews were contradictory.
We should all be able to go where we like as long as we don't harm anything or intrude on people's privacy. This seems sensible and the new legislation seems to be moving in this direction. However beware!! The major landowners have more than one way to skins cats (or ramblers for that matter) -I wonder if this is why one in Sutherland is planning on reintroducing wolves!!!!
Rubbish Golach..
And do you own mineral rights of your back garden? you've not answered that. but, I can assure you once again.. if they want.. when they want.. how they want.. they can huv ya! even though you think I am against you.. I AM WITH YOU. . I am your friend and your fiend of freedom.. not your enemy.THE LAND IS OORS!
Firstly Madam, I am not your friend and dont want to be, I am not your enemy either, just because I disagree with your way of life and values does not make me an enemy, I do not impose my values on anyone in here.....I just state what I believe in and yes I am a thrawn owld mannie but I have lived a full and enjoyable life not going down the road you and a few others in here advocate.
My friend Gleber2 and I disagree on lots of things, but when we met, we let each other know our views, and each of us understands each other, if not in perfect agreement.
And if you own the land, time you paid your taxes:)
...and I am also citizen and passport holder of Scotland and THE LAND IS OORS!
You can get Scottish Passports now? When did that happen? If I drive up to Glasgow and apply for a passport will it have a Saltire on the front? I hate having the burgundy EU passport.....
The land is yoors? Hmmm............
Tread lightly? do you live a mudhut with a turf roof? do you crap in a bucket and compost your excrement? no! I thought not! ????
Do you?? I think not[disgust] I am sure you as well as I contribute to the "Seafield Pong".....for the uninitiated Seafield is the smelliest sewage works that Auld Reekie has.
My friend Gleber2 and I disagree on lots of things, but when we met, we let each other know our views, and each of us understands each other, if not in perfect agreement.
:)
Not in perfect agreement? That's a bit euphemistic. Diametrically opposed would be more appropriate. It will be a cold day in Hades before ye understand me, Golach.
Knowing the glint in your eye when spying a trim young wench, I wonder if you would want Sjwahwah as a friend if you met her without knowing who she was. I bet you would be drooling, you old dog. She's very pleasing on the eye you know.:Razz
You can get Scottish Passports now? When did that happen? If I drive up to Glasgow and apply for a passport will it have a Saltire on the front? I hate having the burgundy EU passport.....
The land is yoors? Hmmm............
you know what I mean.:D
no really.... this is the law... and alot of people do not abide by it! That is the issue here... I keep getting pm's about city people being morons in the countryside and it just ain't so and it's hardly the point. Camping is hardly disturbing anything and people should be able to go out and enjoy themselves...
Naefearjustbeer
27-Aug-06, 12:48
I am sure there is an access forum group that meets up regularly to discuss any access problems that are encountered. I am not sure where or when though. Basically you can go wherever you like on foot, horseback or on a bicycle, as long as it is not someones garden, airports or restricted sites such as dounreay or MOD locations. This access is allowed as long as you are not breaking the law ie vandalising dropping litter damaging crops etc. Scotland belongs to me just as much as the next Scottish person I have the right to wander around my country. I dont like it when some jobsworth says Hoi this is private. Unless it is his garden he has no leg to stand on.
We regularily paddle on rivers in and around caithness and we always contact the ghilies or game keepers to say what we are doing. We have been asked not to padlle for reasons such as pheasant shoots going on etc. We could still go but it would be rather stupid to try and paddle along when there are groups out with shotguns. Comon sense and politeness is why we give a call. It is not to ask permission as none is needed. however as we dont want to upset people we give a courtesy call first.
The Austrailian Aborigines have a much more sensible view of things. They believe the land owns them. That's one of the reasons why there was so much trouble when white settlers came- the worldviews were contradictory.
We should all be able to go where we like as long as we don't harm anything or intrude on people's privacy. This seems sensible and the new legislation seems to be moving in this direction. However beware!! The major landowners have more than one way to skins cats (or ramblers for that matter) -I wonder if this is why one in Sutherland is planning on reintroducing wolves!!!!
The reintroduction of wolves is a seriously bad idea... they did it where I'm from and it is the worst thing out. Firstly, everytime I go back there.. it is one of the few places that the animals are taking back the land... which I don't see much problem with except that it can be quite dangerous for children.. cause wolves will snatch up just about anything.. they have whitetail deer & sometimes a moose in their back gardens, black bears routing around in their garages and bins and I've seen a wolf carry a deer it killed right through the town. I can hear the coyotes taking deer in the middle of the night on our hill. The wolf population is so huge now you'd be daft not to carry protection in the forest. They are killing off the deer population and what is left of them are driven into the towns and villages (also drawing the wolves) and have moved on to dogs and soon it will be people. And just recently they've had to reinstate deer culling in the town. We're talking front porch archery here. So, I think there needs to be some hard thought on wolf reintroduction and if they do so... also the gun laws.
I do like the notion that nobody should really own land but, in our culture it is all about possession. In Mongolia, nobody owns land they are nomadic so they just move along anywhere they like and also move on when there is still enough grazing for the next person as well.. I like that! Makes too much sense.:)
Do you?? I think not[disgust] I am sure you as well as I contribute to the "Seafield Pong".....for the uninitiated Seafield is the smelliest sewage works that Auld Reekie has.
Aye..I do, not by choice and I take careful consideration to the whole operation. But, I'm happy to report I will dealing with my humanure myself quite soon. My point was that people are complaining about tent stakes and treading lightly on the land but, they poo in fresh water and flush it somewheres without a thought of how detrimental that really is... everytime we flush away a big brownie. Just a bit of a crazy thing to say.. that's all.
Not in perfect agreement? That's a bit euphemistic. Diametrically opposed would be more appropriate. It will be a cold day in Hades before ye understand me, Golach.
Knowing the glint in your eye when spying a trim young wench, I wonder if you would want Sjwahwah as a friend if you met her without knowing who she was. I bet you would be drooling, you old dog. She's very pleasing on the eye you know.
how very kind G2 but, I would hope not to get drooled on.:D Chances are I've probably met Golach already... I live in Leith.. he lives in Leith... I believe he's a pub goer (I could be wrong about this, just judging by his earlier proven knowledge of pub owners in Leith) I was a pub goer and pub worker for years and know just about every Leith pensioner with a penchant for a pint and he's probably cut in front of me in the queue at the Co-op before...so, Leith's a pretty sma place and Leithers don't really leave Leith either... we get a nosebleed if we travel any further up than Elm Row.[lol]
I am sure there is an access forum group that meets up regularly to discuss any access problems that are encountered. I am not sure where or when though. Basically you can go wherever you like on foot, horseback or on a bicycle, as long as it is not someones garden, airports or restricted sites such as dounreay or MOD locations. This access is allowed as long as you are not breaking the law ie vandalising dropping litter damaging crops etc. Scotland belongs to me just as much as the next Scottish person I have the right to wander around my country. I dont like it when some jobsworth says Hoi this is private. Unless it is his garden he has no leg to stand on.
We regularily paddle on rivers in and around caithness and we always contact the ghilies or game keepers to say what we are doing. We have been asked not to padlle for reasons such as pheasant shoots going on etc. We could still go but it would be rather stupid to try and paddle along when there are groups out with shotguns. Comon sense and politeness is why we give a call. It is not to ask permission as none is needed. however as we dont want to upset people we give a courtesy call first.
your view is quite refreshing naefearjustbeer...
concerned resident
27-Aug-06, 17:18
I have no problems with the people who treat the country side with respect, but it is the few who park in the lay by admiring the view, and decide to clean the car out at the same time, so when they leave there is the shape of the car, with fag ends, fast food packets, plastic bottles, etc. Then the ones who come to a style, the dog has gotten wet in the grass, so they are not going to lift him, so a good idea is to pull up the fencing so the dog can walk through, and continue there walk, the sheep and lambs think it is a good idea to when they come along later.
Have had the fences pushed down, so they do not have to lift there bikes so high.
Parking cars in field entrances, so you cannot get access.
Driving across fields with cars and trailers.
Parking on concrete next to barn, quarter of a mile from public road, when asked to remove, I was threatened by one of the two occupants.
Leaving gates open, once when I caught person, he stated he was not going to be long just going to go down to the sea, he did not explain this to the sheep and lambs in the field.
I could go on, and do not say call the police, they state it is a civil matter, and are not interested (waste of time) . This is just to enlighten you to the other side, I have thankfully also met some very nice people on there journeys.
Anyone wishing to cross the border into Pictopia will be welcomed with open arms.....
....open Heckler & Koch G36's........[lol]
how very kind G2 but, I would hope not to get drooled on. Chances are I've probably met Golach already... I live in Leith.. he lives in Leith... I believe he's a pub goer (I could be wrong about this, just judging by his earlier proven knowledge of pub owners in Leith) I was a pub goer and pub worker for years and know just about every Leith pensioner with a penchant for a pint and he's probably cut in front of me in the queue at the Co-op before...so, Leith's a pretty sma place and Leithers don't really leave Leith either... we get a nosebleed if we travel any further up than Elm Row.
Sorry Hen, your dont know me, I am not a Leither, I am a Thurso born Caithnessian, I live in Leith and married a Leither, because you live in Leith does not make you a Leither.
Yes I, as you say have a liking for a pint, and have drunk and worked in many Leith pubs, and no I have never cut you up in the queue of the Co-op,
firstly I am too polite, and secondly it was probably a non Leither, maybe even a Bowtow that cut ye upin the Store[lol]
Not in perfect agreement? That's a bit euphemistic. Diametrically opposed would be more appropriate. It will be a cold day in Hades before ye understand me, Golach.
Knowing the glint in your eye when spying a trim young wench, I wonder if you would want Sjwahwah as a friend if you met her without knowing who she was. I bet you would be drooling, you old dog. She's very pleasing on the eye you know.
Ok Gleber2, your off the Xmas card list now, I never said I understood ye, just that you and I came to a sort of agreement when we met, that we would never agree.
Where do you get this fanciful idea that I have wandering eyes? I am a happily married man, not many of us can say that, as for your suggestion that I would be drooling over the person you mention, can I use your expression. "It will be a cawld day in Hades Gleber"
Ok Gleber2, your off the Xmas card list now, I never said I understood ye, just that you and I came to a sort of agreement when we met, that we would never agree.
Where do you get this fanciful idea that I have wandering eyes? I am a happily married man, not many of us can say that, as for your suggestion that I would be drooling over the person you mention, can I use your expression. "It will be a cawld day in Hades Gleber"
Are ye really as hard as you make yourself out to be.:D A happlliy married man who sparkled with joyful memory when telling me of the dop- down-gorgeous young visitors you had come to call.
Are ye really as hard as you make yourself out to be.:D A happlliy married man who sparkled with joyful memory when telling me of the dop- down-gorgeous young visitors you had come to call.
I will have you know, those drop- dead gorgeous young visitors were daughters of friends of mine, HelenW and Sassylass, and I was not drooling over them I was so proud to meet them. And their mothers are drop-dead gorgeous too. I related the story of them arriving in my local, to you, it was the barman who was drooling, me, my wee heart was swelling that these two drop-dead gorgeous lassies came to see me, one even came back a second time [lol]
I will have you know, those drop- dead gorgeous young visitors were daughters of friends of mine, HelenW and Sassylass, and I was not drooling over them I was so proud to meet them. And their mothers are drop-dead gorgeous too. I related the story of them arriving in my local, to you, it was the barman who was drooling, me, my wee heart was swelling that these two drop-dead gorgeous lassies came to see me, one even came back a second time [lol]
A veritable Saint. No, a Saint would have better developed sense of humour.:Razz
A veritable Saint. No, a Saint would have better developed sense of humour.:Razz
I am not a saint....and never have claimed to be, you are the enlightened one who tells us all where we are going wrong......are ye sainted? I think not, but I did enjoy my steak tonight, thinking about you enjoying your nut cutlet
Margaret M.
27-Aug-06, 23:45
I think not, but I did enjoy my steak tonight, thinking about you enjoying your nut cutlet
I had a nut cutlet too and I must say I feel sooooo much better since I stopped eating meat. Had a wonderful veggie meal in Hendersons on Hanover St a few weeks back -- yummy, healthy fare served there.
I had a nut cutlet too and I must say I feel sooooo much better since I stopped eating meat. Had a wonderful veggie meal in Hendersons on Hanover St a few weeks back -- yummy, healthy fare served there.
Ah, the calm voice of reason. Health and vitality like you've never known I would imagine. Detractors cannot know truth because they have never tried and therefore cannot know how it feels. Have a look at the Slaughterhouse thread.
I have enjoyed the odd nut roast (sounds a bit rude..) during my years of vegetarianism but have to say there is nothing quite like a nice juicy filet mignon...
...especially from Fogo de Chão (http://www.fogodechao.com/)....
I have enjoyed the odd nut roast (sounds a bit rude..) during my years of vegetarianism but have to say there is nothing quite like a nice juicy filet mignon...
...especially from Fogo de Chão (http://www.fogodechao.com/)....
I remember sitting down with your brother and devouring Texan steaks that were so big they overlapped the plate. How clearly I remember the taste but no steak in the world could tempt me now.
Margaret M.
28-Aug-06, 00:15
but no steak in the world could tempt me now.
I researched endlessly to fight giving up my beloved cheeseburger but all healthy, humane paths led to a vegetarian and in particular a vegan diet. Now, the thought of eating meat makes me gag.
changilass
28-Aug-06, 00:18
Vegan and vegetarian comes up in a lot of threads, might be worth starting a thread where all the pros and cons could be fully explored:D
Vegan and vegetarian comes up in a lot of threads, might be worth starting a thread where all the pros and cons could be fully explored:D
You might wish to add piscatarianism to the list - many 'vegetarians' actually eat fish and so are a distinct group.
You might wish to add piscatarianism to the list - many 'vegetarians' actually eat fish and so are a distinct group.
Some-one who eats fish is not a vegetarian.
Many people who eat fish claim to be vegetarians - they probably don't know the term piscatarian exists - they assume that if they don't eat flesh of land born animals they can call themselves vegetarian.
If you eat eggs are you still a vegetarian? A demi-vegetarian?
Many people who eat fish claim to be vegetarians - they probably don't know the term piscatarian exists - they assume that if they don't eat flesh of land born animals they can call themselves vegetarian.
If you eat eggs are you still a vegetarian? A demi-vegetarian?
Vegetarian yes, vegan, no.
Vegetarian yes, vegan, no.
Well, depends on which branch you follow....
Different practices of vegetarianism include:
Lacto vegetarianism — Lacto vegetarians do not eat meat or eggs but do consume dairy products. Most vegetarians in India and those in the classical Mediterranean lands, such as Pythagoreans, are or were lacto vegetarian.
Lacto-ovo vegetarianism (also called eggitarian colloquially in India) — Lacto-ovo vegetarians do not eat meat but do consume dairy products and eggs. This is currently the most common variety in the Western world.
Ovo vegetarianism — Ovo vegetarians do not eat meat or dairy products but do eat eggs.
Veganism — Those who avoid eating any animal products, including eggs, milk, cheese, and sometimes honey, are known specifically as dietary vegans or strict vegetarians. Most additionally avoid using animal products, such as leather and some cosmetics, and are called vegans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian
Nobody ever gives a second thought to the poor vegetables we slaughter every day. They too are a living thing and are, often as not, eaten alive.
Well, depends on which branch you follow....
Three kinds of vegetarians, one vegan. Most lacto vegetarians eat eggs no vegan does. I have never met a lacto who who is not also an ovo.
Nobody ever gives a second thought to the poor vegetables we slaughter every day. They too are a living thing and are, often as not, eaten alive.
Missed your diatribes. I can asure you I give more than a second thought to the vegetables we eat and if I could be a fruitarian I would be. Maybe some day.
Naefearjustbeer
28-Aug-06, 01:37
Wouldnt want to smell your farts if you did :eek: :lol:
Three kinds of vegetarians, one vegan.
Most lacto vegetarians eat eggs no vegan does.
Lacto vegetarianism — Lacto vegetarians do not eat meat or eggs but do consume dairy products. Most vegetarians in India and those in the classical Mediterranean lands, such as Pythagoreans, are or were lacto vegetarian.
I have never met a lacto who who is not also an ovo.
Lacto-ovo vegetarianism (also called eggitarian colloquially in India) — Lacto-ovo vegetarians do not eat meat but do consume dairy products and eggs. This is currently the most common variety in the Western world.
So, from your reply you actually must know mainly 'Lacto-ovo vegetarians' - but then I guess it is what you class yourself as that matters. It's all just a lifestyle....
concerned resident
28-Aug-06, 17:26
What has Scottish legislation got to do with cheese burgers?
Just been out in the rain putting sheep back into the correct field, as somebody had opened the gate into another field, and there was no chance the sheep could do it.
If the sheep had gone out on to the road, I would be the one responsible, and the police would get an easy few points by charging me, and if it caused an accident it would be even more expensive, and could even cause loss of life.
Unfortunately this legislation leaves the farmer with no rights other than take a civil case against a person who opens a gate in less than one minute and continues on there way.
To be there a that time and have a witness, more chance of winning the lottery.
Where upon the access user, has a farmer who is going no where, can complain to the access officer, and he will take on the complaint, and the case to court with the local authority paying the bill. A farmer can not even put up a sign now, as it may offend someone. It has to be politically correct.
The farmer has so much bureaucracy to deal with these days, I think in the near future there will be claims taken to court against farmers, and the insurance company’s will bail out, as they do, or get to expensive to buy, and there is no one to help the farmer, all the legislation is for the access users only.
You will then start moaning that the land is over grown, as the fields will be unused.
And the farmers will be having a stress free life, collecting there dole money, while your food will be coming from a third world country, where the animals are ill treated etc.
But thank fully you will have the freedom to roam, even though you have done nothing to deserve the honour, of walking in one of the most beautiful countries in the world.
What has Scottish legislation got to do with cheese burgers?
Just been out in the rain putting sheep back into the correct field, as somebody had opened the gate into another field, and there was no chance the sheep could do it.
If the sheep had gone out on to the road, I would be the one responsible, and the police would get an easy few points by charging me, and if it caused an accident it would be even more expensive, and could even cause loss of life.
Unfortunately this legislation leaves the farmer with no rights other than take a civil case against a person who opens a gate in less than one minute and continues on there way.
To be there a that time and have a witness, more chance of winning the lottery.
Where upon the access user, has a farmer who is going no where, can complain to the access officer, and he will take on the complaint, and the case to court with the local authority paying the bill. A farmer can not even put up a sign now, as it may offend someone. It has to be politically correct.
The farmer has so much bureaucracy to deal with these days, I think in the near future there will be claims taken to court against farmers, and the insurance company’s will bail out, as they do, or get to expensive to buy, and there is no one to help the farmer, all the legislation is for the access users only.
You will then start moaning that the land is over grown, as the fields will be unused.
And the farmers will be having a stress free life, collecting there dole money, while your food will be coming from a third world country, where the animals are ill treated etc.
But thank fully you will have the freedom to roam, even though you have done nothing to deserve the honour, of walking in one of the most beautiful countries in the world.
I agree with you wholeheartedly with the stress that walkers may cause if they open a gate and not close it.
But I think fermers need to come halfway as well to solve this problem. (As a keen walker myself, I would like to point out that I do not go into fields which contain livestock and which do not have an established right of way, in the main. ) A lot of the gates are left open by fermers themselves and I have often pointed that out to them and their reply was "Oh yes, I had forgotten about that, thanks for closing it for me", on other occasions I have got the reply, "Oh! You shouldn't have closed that as my coos cross through that gate to gain access to the water/feed trough". I can't win, but if I go through an open gate and not close it and I'm spotted, then I will get the accusation of not closing the gate!![disgust]
Also, a lot of these gates need a 'knack' to close them once they are open. So walkers are on a loser there.
A simple sign that says 'Please close the gate at all times, thank you' is sufficiently PC though.:roll:
What has Scottish legislation got to do with cheese burgers?
Lots if they're cheesy lamb burgers...;)
Concerned Resident and Rheghead you have both made good points however I agree with Rheghead, farmers will just have to learn to come and go a bit. I would hope that it would be a tiny majority of people that would abuse the access laws. I certainly wouldn't ride through fields without permission although I have actaully been locked out of my own land by my tenant (as has everyone else). That is the sort of thing that will get folks backs up - and in this case you can't blame the poor landowner!
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