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Has anyone been walking up green road lately beside the slaughterhouse what a horrible smell coming out of it ,It must be a health hazard I pity the neighbours around green road.I bet they can't open their windows with that smell, just as well it is moving soon
Lolabelle
25-Aug-06, 10:16
I don't know about your slaughterhouse, but last time I went to one it turned me off eating anything but hot chips for days.
Something about that smell, I kept spraying Dave with room freshener when he got back in the truck. Uhh. (Needless to say, he didn't like me spraying him)
I know it is rank! However two things spring to mind.Firstly we are getting more and more removed from the realities of our meat production. When we kill an animal for food it smells, they don't come ready wrapped! Secondly having seen the reaction of horses and cows in fields close to the Dornoch killin' hoose I think the smell must also be distressing for the animals who are on their way in.
The Native Americans have developed a mobile slaughtering trailer that drives up to the plain. Takes out what is necessary and prepares it immediately. This saves buffalo from the stress of transportation, and from the fear caused by the stench of a slaughterhouse. I wonder if this would be a good idea- it would stop a level of animal suffering and hopefully prevent the spread of disease we have seen through animal transportation.
isn't there something about the good sheperd who takes away the sheep and kills it so, the others cannot see.. and they are unawares? The bad sheperd just goes out and kills the sheep infront of the other sheep. I've heard that apparently a scared sheep makes for bad meat... where I heard it I cannot remember.. :roll:
Meat is murder and this murder is one of the prime reasons for the increase in disease and the general state of the human race. Much more vegetable protein can be grown than animal protein in the same space and is infinately better for us.
i would have to agree G2.... I feel sorry for any vegetarians living next to the slaughterhouse... eeessh... absolutely boggin' gives me the shivers to imagine that smell of disease and rotting flesh... EEK! When you read about what eating rotting flesh does to the intestinal flora... and the autointoxication that happens in the body of meat eaters... put me off it for good! Saw the error of my ways about 10 years ago.
I am not trying to stir up a problem here but i just have to put my oar in so to speak, all of you out there who are vegetarians i have the utmost respect for you and i hope that you have the same respect for us meat eaters!
One thing you must consider though is that do you think that people would really continue to keep cows, sheep deer, oxen etc the world over if everyone decided to become a vegetarian? Do you realise that most of these animals would become extinct or very close to it and the only place you would probably see them would be in zoo's! So come on before you start spouting off all the animal rights stuff just think logically and realistically !
By the way I am not a great lover of slaughterhouses myself as the animals tend to get stressed out and that results in the animal being unhappy and too much adrenalin in the meat, but we have used Wick slaughterhouse and have nothing but high praise for it, the animals are treated as individuals and also with respect and care for there short time there. As for hygene whenever we have visited it has always been immaculate and far cleaner than alot cafes and restaurants i have been to!
Gleber, what you say about the production of vegetable protein is true: meat is an inefficient way to produce protein.
However, the human animal is built as omnivorous and it is (thought that) thanks to eating meat that we have evolved to the intelligent (?) species on this planet. It is in our biology to acess protein from animal and vegetable sources (infact, it is so difficult to have a balanced human vegetariian diet, it is not unknown for vegetarian parents to find that inadvertadely they are starving their children of some amino-acids).
Each person has the right to choose what type of diet they want to follow without being implicitly called murderers for their choice.
And thirdly, there is NO diet in the animal world that does not imply the death of some living entity (plants have life too).
If you choose to eat meat, you should know about what you are eating, where it comes from, what is envolved in its production and respect the death of those animals to feed you.
alot plants you can take away parts of it and it continues to grow. You can't take a buttock of a cow and it will continue to live. All I'm saying about vegetarianism is that if you eat meat.. you should understand the process it disrupts when you ingest it continually.. day after day.. meal after meal. In small doses... prolly won't do much unless it's pork... trichinosis. Did you know that thousands of people die from Trichinosis every year but, they call it liver failure or something else that trichinosis causes? Look to the Hunzas I say.. and you will find your answers to health and longevity.
Ju... I actually think... in my opinion anyways.. it's pretty conclusive that humans are built to be frugavores and our bodies are specifically designed for it.
All the animals you have listed nicnak have other uses than as food! Except now we have technology and ride in cars and not in oxen carts... I take it your a farmer... then you know that pigs are great rooters and diggers and could prepare a field for cultivation more effectively than any machinery could hands down. And you know there are multitudes of uses of sheeps wool and lanolin. Horses are plentiful and I've never seen one in a zoo.. mind you I've only been to a zoo once and that was a long time ago. Of course.. deer are grazers.. and then they poo and their manure is bringing more nutrients back to the soil.. same as any other animal... we are the only animals (on this side of the planet anyways) by the way that don't do this?! weird eh? I'm not advocating exploitation of animals here but, theres just a natural give and take, ebb and flow if you will if thought out properly.
I hear what you are saying sjwahwah and yes i am a crofter and as so can assure you that there would be no point in keeping animals for the purposes you state, yes pigs are good rooters etc but to feed them which they need as supplementary to the rooting would cost far more than using something mechanical, sheep- no we dont get enough for them as it is so we certainly wouldnt keep them just to use their fleeces and lanolin, oxen are still used for meat and for their farming abilities to the third world countries but realistically it would be more cost effective to use a tractor! as for deer ok they roam free but no one would farm them if they didnt do it for the meat.
Yes you would get a few eccentrics like us who keep llamas as pets and guards for animals still but would we personally keep them if we had no animals for meat production - no!
As for cows ok you get milk and other dairy produce but that is also shunned by alot of vegetarians who are also vegan so where would it all stop?
All i am saying yes make an informed choice but make sure it is informed and not just based on all the animal rights propaganda and someones bad experience.
For twenty five years I have been hearing the lame excuses from people like Nicnak and Ju to excuse their devotion to flesh eating. I cannot answer their posts because, from my point of view there is nothing that can possibly excuse the way we torture animals for our own selfish ends. The pro meat arguement is completely specious and, if the fervent meat murderers on this forum were to experience for themselves the difference a proper vegetarian diet would make to their lives, we would not hear such arrant nonsense about what we are designed for etc. I can have no respect for carnivores. Their egotistical certainty in their right to kill and eat anything they like is based on ignorance and there is an ever growing body of more enlightened people who will argue this point because they KNOW what they are talking about, don't just think they do to exonerate themselves from blame for the suffering of the poor animals we slaughter for our own sustenance.
I was just wondering if you are ovo-lacto vegetarians, by any chance? After all, Milk and eggs are taken from an animal without killing it....
I was just wondering if you are ovo-lacto vegetarians, by any chance? After all, Milk and eggs are taken from an animal without killing it....
Twentysix years vegan. I would not eat dairy produce if you payed me to. Milk is fine for a calf but poison for a human.
LOL! Ok.... I definately won't get into an argument with you, Gleber 2. It would be pointless, me being one of those digusting, insignificant, ignorant, idiotic and deserving-of-capital-punishment carnivores daring to, in anyway, question your holier than though knowledge.
My name is Ju, I am a carnivore and do not deserve to exist.
rockchick
27-Aug-06, 16:13
Meat is murder and this murder is one of the prime reasons for the increase in disease and the general state of the human race. Much more vegetable protein can be grown than animal protein in the same space and is infinately better for us.
But steak tastes sooooooooo good!
From the point of view of the vegan, I don't really care what the carnivores among us suffer or don't suffer because of their un-natural diets. I have no interest in converting them. If my statements, based on experience and knowledge comes across as Holier Than Thou then too bad. If my attitude is Holier Than Thou, then I am no different from every other poster who is so sure he or she is right. However, I know that I am right, the pro-meat lobby would like to think they are. But they are not. Eat what you want but be prepared for a shock on Judgement Day.
How would you feel if your local butcher started selling dog meat for human consumption?
I have never seen such a load of rubbish in my long life!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rockchick
27-Aug-06, 16:23
Just curious, but how is killing a plant to eat it less "sinful" than killing an animal? I would have thought that, if all life is sacred, then plants and animals would be equal in the eyes of the maker.
rockchick
27-Aug-06, 16:31
Don't get me wrong, niknak, I can well respect the attitudes of the vegan. I personally don't choose to live that way (I LIKE the flesh!) but can understand why people do. I've had some very tasty vegetarian meals, and definitely would call it "real food"!!!
I was curious about the finer points of the philosophy, is all...
I agree with you rockchick I too have had some lovely vegetarian meals but I too prefer meat as do my children, I think everyone has a right to choose but i do think it should be based on all available data so to speak.
Just curious, but how is killing a plant to eat it less "sinful" than killing an animal? I would have thought that, if all life is sacred, then plants and animals would be equal in the eyes of the maker.
On a path of improvement, my next stage is fruitarian where I would not take a plant that had not flowered and seeded. Because I live where I live I would find this change almost impossible for various reasons. I am a vegan because, primarily, I selfishly care about my own health and well-being. I am very aware of the point you make as it is always the one that smart omnivores use to cast doubt upon the motives of the vegetarian. Why do you use leather is another, to which I always reply, "I don't eat my shoes". Under natural conditions, if I wanted leather I would find a dead animal and, as the skin is never used by animal predators, I would use this skin.
I have never heard a cabbage scream like a cow being taken to the slaughter. It is my own chosen path to take as little life as possible to support my own and, until I have reached perfection(LOL) I will continue to selfishly murder all sorts of vegetables.
It would take an awful lot of cabbages to equal the life of one cow.
JimH, you are entitled to your opinion but your stated opinion is based on ignorance, not knowledge.
i do think it should be based on all available data so to speak.
Then you need to study more data!!! Not from people who eat meat and try always to justify it but from those who have made the change and speak from their own experience.
Meat is murder .
Gleber, you are so right, I am going till murder a lovely rare 12oz porterhouse steak for my dinner tonight.:lol:
Billy Boy
27-Aug-06, 17:12
Gleber, you are so right, I am going till murder a lovely rare 12oz porterhouse steak for my dinner tonight.:lol:
stop it lol your makeing ma mooth water :Razz
Gleber, you are so right, I am going till murder a lovely rare 12oz porterhouse steak for my dinner tonight.:lol:
I wonder how you would eat if you didn't use paid assasins to do your killing for you. I can't imagine you chasing a pig with murderous intent.
Chobbersjnr
27-Aug-06, 18:35
help ma boab
I have been vegan since birth, I am not weak (I don't think so anyhoo), I'm not underweight, I've not got any problems with anything health wise other than self inflicted lung problems. I have been brought up this way by my parents & I didn't think about it untill I went to school (I was home taught untill P6) & the usual "but you've killed a carrott" argument came into it & I felt confused, to say the least & I wanted to try various things. Wasn't allowed in primary because the meals were prepared for us, the high school however was a different story I sampled this & tried that & eventually came back to being vegan. NOW I hold my hand up & say I'm not a 100% vegan unless at home as it is incredibly hard to get vegan food of any real quality on the road & believe me one gets sick of the sight of veggie burgers & wedding buffets are rarely aimed towards a percentage of vegans. I won't do flesh (unless insanely drunk), my body is not built to deal with the amount of energy it takes to digest lumps of decaying flesh as I've spent most of my time not needing to digest much more than (lettuce & nuts LMAO) far from it!!. Milk makes me sick full stop it's like instant illness to me
so all in all I have to thank my parents for bringing me up vegan,
OH aye & lets not start on the collective diseases that are carried in many meat products:eek:
& another thing, if the "meat eaters" had to (with bare hands) catch & kill their meat before eating there's not many human's would have fresh meat
-------------->now where's my soya cow??
Gleber 2: "Meat is murder"
Oh dear here we go again - It wasn't you sticking up that slogan on the doors in Somerfields loos a while back was it?.. the legal definition of the word 'murder' is 'unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being' how far down the chain does your 'murder' go Gleber?; Bulls, pigs, rabbits, mice, shrews, sardines, ants, mites, amoebas, Front page in the Thunderer: 'Shock Horror, Mr Toad murdered by Mrs Toad'
Fair enough we are all entitled to our various beliefs but I do take issue with us 'carnivores' being lambasted by you as: fervent meat murderers.. such arrant nonsense.. I can have no respect for carnivores.. Their egotistical certainty, based on ignorance, their un-natural diets... However, I know that I am right, be prepared for a shock on Judgement Day... I selfishly care about my own health and well-being.. your stated opinion is based on ignorance, not knowledge... Well I never!, being a vegan certainly does not seem to lend itself to tolerance or understanding of disparate views!.
Your reference to Judgement Day and your 'O Lord please, don't let me be misunderstood' seems a bit of an oxymoron, as in the Bible: Luke Chapter 15, 15:23. And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it: and let us eat and make merry' and of course 'Land of milk & Honey'.. Jesus Christ, our Lord, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all human beings, ate animal foods (meat, curds, milk), [MILK! Gleber says: "Milk is fine for a calf but poison for a human" ] during His pre-incarnate appearances (e.g. to Abraham in Genesis 18), during His 3.5-year earthly ministry (I'm sure it was no different during His pre-public ministry days) and, think of it, after His resurrection (He ate broiled/barbecued fish on two occasions). If my Lord, who loved me so much that He was willing to go the cross for me, ate fish and gave fish to His children to eat (the feeding of the 4,000 and 5,000), how can I possibly believe that eating fish is toxic to my body. Would such a benevolent God feed poison to His children? Jesus taught that fishes and eggs are good gifts which a loving father would not withhold from his children (Luke 11:11-13). He would not have used these examples if He knew that these were toxic.
Are we a carnivorous, omnivorous or vegetarian species? The answer to that question lies in our past. But not the immediate past. The way we live now is based on advanced agriculture and the domestication of plants and animals. This is a very recent invention: we cannot have adapted to it yet. To determine what foods are likely to make up an ideal diet for us as a species, we must look further back, at our evolutionary history. For the food we have adapted to and should eat now is not a matter for current dietary fads, it is determined by what we have adapted to over millions of years and is coded in our genes.
But getting down to where we actually came from; colloquially known as the 'Stone Age', we were hunter-gatherers, i.e. animals were hunted and plant foods were gathered, this was some 2,000,000 years our 'natural diet' was thus different from yours, just how many thousands of years have Vegans had to develop their internal digestive organs? Based on the foods that were available at that time, and on the diets of modern hunter-gatherer societies (such as the Bushmen of southern Africa and Australian Aborigines), it is believed by many nutritionists that stone age people ate a diet that was surprisingly high in protein -- derived largely from meat and offal -- compared to the typical, present-day, Western diet. Hmmm
Fats & brain size; The evidence is overwhelming that we could not be a vegetarian species. However, in 1972 the publication of two independent investigations really nailed the lid on the vegetarian hypothesis's coffin. The first concerned fats. About half our brain and nervous system is composed of complicated, long-chain, fatty acid molecules. The walls of our blood vessels also need them. Without them we cannot develop normally. These fatty acids do not occur in plants. Fatty acids in a simpler form do but they must be converted into the long-chain molecules by animals – which is a slow, time-consuming process. This is where the herbivores come in. Over the year, they convert the simple fatty acids found in grasses and seeds into intermediate, more complicated forms that we can convert into the ones that we need.
Our brain is considerably larger than that of any ape. Looking back at the fossil record from early hominids to modern man, we see a quite remarkable increase in brain size. This expansion needed large quantities of the right fatty acids before it could have occurred. It could never have occurred if our ancestors had not eaten meat. Human milk contains the fatty acids needed for large brain development – cow's milk does not. It is no coincidence that in relative terms, our brain is some fifty times the size of a cow's. The vegetarian will be dismayed to learn that while Soya bean is rich in complete protein, and grains and nuts also combine to provide complete proteins, none contains the fats that are essential for proper brain development.
Gleber tells us: "For twenty five years I have been hearing the lame excuses from people like Nicnak and Ju to excuse their devotion to flesh eating". - well apart from being down right rude and arrogant - a 25 year old? or was he once a murderer too? I'm a grumpy old git, and I too, am sick of hearing the lame excuses trotted out by Vegans, this "I'm right and YOU are wrong" egotistical nonsense, trying to stuff their beliefs down our throats.. I have a good friend who is a vegan, we differ on certain things (I find it strange she does not even eat Honey) but she does not dictate to me and I nor her, it's called tolerance and for someone who quotes the Lord he has a very strange way of showing his love for fellow man!
Wow, such oratory, such panache, such book learned knowledge, such certainty, such arrogance and he has the audacity to accuse me of ramming my ideas down his throat when I am merely stating my opinion and answering posts in the spirit in which they are posted. Your style has more of the ram about it than mine. I am not a 25 year old, I am 62 years old and thank goodness I learned enough to change my ways when young enough for that change to be effective. I talk about Judgement Day but I never mentioned the Bible. If you believe in that piece of nonsense then there is no point in debating anything with you. By the way, both flax oil and hemp oil have a perfect balance of all the essential fatty acids needed for the human body to thrive.
I know a lot of aging vegetarians. They are healthy, vigorous and bright eyed. I know a lot of aging omnivores. Their eyes have a yellowish tinge, they are sluggish and their breath smells like the slaughterhouse that started this thread. I do not condemn them for their dietary habits and I have tolerated the other man's views for a long time and I have listened attentively time without number when vituperative meat eaters have sneered at me for being vegan and told me their disparate views, but I will not stop stating mine no matter how many posts such as yours are posted on this forum.
Incorrect. Incorrect, Gleber2.
Big Pete discussed with logic, facts and using your own inconsistencies. You limited yourself to ignoring what you didnt want to read, calling us disgusting and ignorant for our opinions, which you ungraciously allow us to have, but not without implying our stupidity before doing so.
I have no issue at all with you being a vegeterian, vegan or what ever. I do take issue with being criticised in the way you have criticised us omnivores and if anyone is ramming opinions down anyones throats ( or trying to) it is you, Gleber2.
Gleber 2: "Meat is murder"
Oh dear here we go again - It wasn't you sticking up that slogan on the doors in Somerfields loos a while back was it?
Someone did that in the Central and Top Joes toilets too. We caught her in the act though ;)
Wow, such oratory, such panache, such book learned knowledge, such certainty, such arrogance [ no it's not] and he has the audacity [no I don't] to accuse me of ramming my ideas down his throat when I am merely stating my opinion and answering posts in the spirit in which they are posted. Your style has more of the ram about it than mine. I am not a 25 year old, I am 62 years old [Right, so you WERE a murderer for 37 long years! ] and thank goodness I learned enough to change my ways when young enough [37!] for that change to be effective. I talk about Judgement Day but I never mentioned the Bible. [Ref the bible; I'm a humanist (go on look it up)] If you believe in that piece of nonsense then there is no point in debating anything with you. By the way, both flax oil and hemp oil have a perfect balance of all the essential fatty acids needed for the human body to thrive.
I know a lot of aging vegetarians. They are healthy, vigorous and bright eyed. [yeah right] I know a lot of aging omnivores. Their eyes have a yellowish tinge,[mine arn't] they are sluggish [no I'm not] and their breath smells like the slaughterhouse [no it doesn't] that started this thread. I do not condemn them for their dietary habits and I have tolerated the other man's views [no you don't] for a long time and I have listened attentively [ no you haven't] time without number when vituperative meat eaters have sneered at me for being vegan and told me their disparate views, but I will not stop stating mine [we all know this!] no matter how many posts such as yours are posted on this forum.
At post 51 you are remarkably knowlegable. Congrats on your good health in spite of your diet. My description of my veggie friends is a true one. Do not accuse me of making terminological inexactitudes without foundation. I do not tell lies. So I don't tolerate others and their ways? I would dispute that. You speak opinion, not fact, and that opinion is based on insufficient knowledge of me and my way of life. I find your method of posting a bit disturbing but I don't need to read your posts, do I? You are entitled to your opinions but what a way you have of expressing them. People who live in glass houses should watch where they hurl their boulders.
Margaret M.
28-Aug-06, 00:23
I think Einstein summed it up nicely: "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian."
For twenty five years I have been hearing the lame excuses from people like Nicnak and Ju to excuse their devotion to flesh eating. I cannot answer their posts because, from my point of view there is nothing that can possibly excuse the way we torture animals for our own selfish ends. No excuses here, I eat meat because I enjoy it and have no moral qualms about it at all.
changilass
28-Aug-06, 02:04
I love meat, especially steak, I also love veggies, so I guess I am a murderer by both sides standards.:confused
Naefearjustbeer
28-Aug-06, 02:09
I am a meat eater and I am also quite prepared to shoot and fish for my dinner. I will hunt, kill, gut and prepare cook and finally eat almost anything edible, duck, chicken, rabbits, trout, salmon, deer etc. I choose not too most of the time as my local butcher makes a lovely job of it all for me and I dont want him to go out of business. However my wife wont eat duck because they are cute? same goes for venison ahh bambi has a lot to answer for, fish has to be skinless so it doesnt look like fish in fact it is better if it comes in a rectangle from a captain birdseye box for her. I would rather eat what lives and grows locally than mass produced processed crap. That incudes fruit and veg.
I have heard all sorts of stories about whats in meat pies, You know eyelids and bums and all the yuckybits. Well it sure tastes good so bring it on. But I also believe each to there own I dont want to force my eating habbits on anyone else and dont expect it to happen to me, However I know I wont starve if a big bomb comes and wipes out all the shops in the north of scotland.
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