View Full Version : Incapacity Benefit for Drug addicts and alcoholics
I read* that nearly 90,000 drug addicts and alcoholics are being paid incapacity benefit every week because they are unable to work.
In the past ten years, £3.8billion in taxpayers’ money has been handed to jobless addicts.
Figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act list 46,080 alcoholics and 41,230 registered drug abusers on full benefits.
The cost of keeping addicts on benefits was £447million in the year 2008-2009 alone. When Labour came to power in 1997, 48,700 addicts were living off the state. The number has spiralled to just over 87,310.
“Accident wards are full of people drunk or drugged up.”
This is terrible, surely it's their personal responsibility whether to shove booze down their throats or shove needles in their arms, no one forces them...
* http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2010/08/08/billions-in-benefits-paid-to-90-000-alcoholics-and-drug-addicts-102039-22471720/
DeHaviLand
05-Feb-11, 15:28
As someone who has had their life blighted by alcoholism, I have devised my own solution to the problem of how we should, as a society, care for alcoholics and drug addicts.
Put them in a warehouse, 100 at a time. Give each one a blunt knife. Somewhere in that warehouse will be a can of Special Brew, or a syringe. You now have a 99% solution to the problem, and have cut your costs drastically.
I really dont see why we should be providing help for those who wont help themselves. Some of these people will be a drain on society for the whole of their lives, and will contribute absolutely nothing to the greater good. I would have no problem with cutting them loose.
changilass
05-Feb-11, 15:54
What about the child that was born to parents who smoked drugs, became an addict from breathing in the fumes?
Is it the childs fault that they are a drug addict and cannot kick the habit?
Everyone has down times, and whilst not everyone turns to drink or drugs, many do.
Would society not be better off trying to find a way to stop folks from becoming addicts in the first place?
Once you are an addict, you have an illness, just like any other and need to be treated.
Instead of trying to fix the problem, with rehab, which is very expensive, it seems easier to just put money into benefits and let them lash at it.
As with most things, prevention is too expensive so we have to wait till we can find some sort of cure. Whilst we are waiting for the cure then we just seem to chuck money at it with no hope of ever getting out of the vicious circle.
What about the child that was born to parents who smoked drugs, became an addict from breathing in the fumes?
Is it the childs fault that they are a drug addict and cannot kick the habit?
Everyone has down times, and whilst not everyone turns to drink or drugs, many do.
Would society not be better off trying to find a way to stop folks from becoming addicts in the first place?
Once you are an addict, you have an illness, just like any other and need to be treated.
Instead of trying to fix the problem, with rehab, which is very expensive, it seems easier to just put money into benefits and let them lash at it.
As with most things, prevention is too expensive so we have to wait till we can find some sort of cure. Whilst we are waiting for the cure then we just seem to chuck money at it with no hope of ever getting out of the vicious circle.
Both of my parents smoked, they took it up when in the forces during WW11, but because they smoked it didn't mean that I and my brothers had to smoke, we had the choice, and none of us did. Again some of it is down to self control or being responsible for our own lives and what we do with it.
I read* that nearly 90,000 drug addicts and alcoholics are being paid incapacity benefit every week because they are unable to work.
In the past ten years, £3.8billion in taxpayers’ money has been handed to jobless addicts.
Figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act list 46,080 alcoholics and 41,230 registered drug abusers on full benefits.
The cost of keeping addicts on benefits was £447million in the year 2008-2009 alone. When Labour came to power in 1997, 48,700 addicts were living off the state. The number has spiralled to just over 87,310.
“Accident wards are full of people drunk or drugged up.”
This is terrible, surely it's their personal responsibility whether to shove booze down their throats or shove needles in their arms, no one forces them...
* http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2010/08/08/billions-in-benefits-paid-to-90-000-alcoholics-and-drug-addicts-102039-22471720/
Maybey at the start it was there choice to inject or drink but once you have an addiction problem its very hard thing to deal with.
If it were up to me i wouldnt give them any benifits i would remove them from society and put them in a very controlled environment and force them into cold turkey and to overcome there addiction and never mind the human right act crap force them into dealing with there addiction the will probably be glad you did at the end of it at least this way you have tried to solve the problem
Maybey at the start it was there choice to inject or drink but once you have an addiction problem its very hard thing to deal with.
If it were up to me i wouldnt give them any benifits i would remove them from society and put them in a very controlled environment and force them into cold turkey and to overcome there addiction and never mind the human right act crap force them into dealing with there addiction the will probably be glad you did at the end of it at least this way you have tried to solve the problem
Totaly agree with you on this one.
gardenergirl
05-Feb-11, 16:53
Right, and once they've been forced through cold turkey we can put them on incapacity benefit to get them through the depression/social problems that led to their addiction problems in the first place. I'm not saying everyone with an addiction is depressed, but often there are underlying problems behind addiction, and they can be enough in themselves to stop a person working and leading a productive life.
changilass
05-Feb-11, 17:18
Both of my parents smoked, they took it up when in the forces during WW11, but because they smoked it didn't mean that I and my brothers had to smoke, we had the choice, and none of us did. Again some of it is down to self control or being responsible for our own lives and what we do with it.
There is a big difference between the high you get from smoking tobacco and the high you get from drug. If there wasn't, then there would be no reason for anyone to smoke drugs.
There is a big difference between the high you get from smoking tobacco and the high you get from drug. If there wasn't, then there would be no reason for anyone to smoke drugs.
It doesn't matter whether you smoke, do drugs (in any form) or alcohol, they are all addictive if allowed to be. I am saying that people still have to take some responsibility for their own lives, other people cannot live your life for you. Help is there if you want it, but, YOU the PERSON has got to want that help and to accept that you have a problem.
It doesn't matter whether you smoke, do drugs (in any form)
I see that everything for you is either Black or White with nothing in between. There are many people out there who have become addicted to Drugs. These have been prescribed to them by their own GP and then by just taking the Drug, as prescribed, they have unwittingly become an Addict. So who is responsible then, the Doctor, the Patient or both.
There are many reasons why a person can become addicted and some of the reasons are outwith that persons control. It is not always just simply Balck and White.
I see that everything for you is either Black or White with nothing in between. There are many people out there who have become addicted to Drugs. These have been prescribed to them by their own GP and then by just taking the Drug, as prescribed, they have unwittingly become an Addict. So who is responsible then, the Doctor, the Patient or both.
There are many reasons why a person can become addicted and some of the reasons are outwith that persons control. It is not always just simply Balck and White.
I completely agree with you Kodiak and there are many reasons why people turn to drugs and/or alcohol. Who are we to judge them?
I have to say though that, whilst they receive benefits, they should be on some kind of programme to help them overcome the addiction etc and not sure whether this is the case?
It's no use giving money just to feed and addiction.
It doesn't matter whether you smoke, do drugs (in any form) or alcohol, they are all addictive if allowed to be. I am saying that people still have to take some responsibility for their own lives, other people cannot live your life for you. Help is there if you want it, but, YOU the PERSON has got to want that help and to accept that you have a problem.
And some people have developed addictions through no fault of their own,
for instance,
"a person feels ill and visits his doctor, the doctor prescribes pills and potions, and hey presto! if the patient has an addictive nature (and he wouldn't necessarily know that he did possess such a nature) he is addicted.
many people taking repeat prescription drugs are doing so because another thought they should.
And some people have developed addictions through no fault of their own,
for instance,
"a person feels ill and visits his doctor, the doctor prescribes pills and potions, and hey presto! if the patient has an addictive nature (and he wouldn't necessarily know that he did possess such a nature) he is addicted.
many people taking repeat prescription drugs are doing so because another thought they should.
Oops, sorry :)
I[SIZE=2] This is terrible, surely it's their personal responsibility whether to shove booze down their throats or shove needles in their arms, no one forces them...
Unfortunately there are very few people around who have any sense of personal responsibility these days, and look for someone to blame or to help them out.
AliciaMackinnon
05-Feb-11, 20:01
What about the child that was born to parents who smoked drugs, became an addict from breathing in the fumes?
Is it the childs fault that they are a drug addict and cannot kick the habit?
Everyone has down times, and whilst not everyone turns to drink or drugs, many do.
Would society not be better off trying to find a way to stop folks from becoming addicts in the first place?
Once you are an addict, you have an illness, just like any other and need to be treated.
Instead of trying to fix the problem, with rehab, which is very expensive, it seems easier to just put money into benefits and let them lash at it.
As with most things, prevention is too expensive so we have to wait till we can find some sort of cure. Whilst we are waiting for the cure then we just seem to chuck money at it with no hope of ever getting out of the vicious circle.
i dont belive this at all!! The tax payer is paying to fund there habbit how can that be called curing?
Myself and my husband unfortunatly are on benefits but as I am a full time mum to my 6month old daughter I cant work... and my husband is a carer for his mum although he does everything in his power to look for a job.. infact on valentines day he his off to sit his C.P.C.S test in the hope that he will have more chance of a job!
Another little dig... my mother in law has never been an addict and she goes threw life everyday riddled with artharitis and other illnesses that most of the time leave her unable to get dressed or go to the toilet by herself! She had to fight to get incapacity benefit and after 5 years shes finally on it!
The D.W.P should be looking after the elderly and people that have difficulty in everyday life threw no fault of their own. Food stamps should be given to addicts so that no money is avilable to fund their addiction!!!!
I feel quite strongly that the addicts should help themselves and not be given the funds to do worse damage to themselves!
However I do agree with the point made about children but a lot of the time the fumes they are breathing in or the drugs coming from the mother to the unborn baby will be funded by the D.W.P!!!
I see that everything for you is either Black or White with nothing in between. There are many people out there who have become addicted to Drugs. These have been prescribed to them by their own GP and then by just taking the Drug, as prescribed, they have unwittingly become an Addict. So who is responsible then, the Doctor, the Patient or both.
There are many reasons why a person can become addicted and some of the reasons are outwith that persons control. It is not always just simply Balck and White.
I was put on Tramadol* (Tramadol hydrochloride) the highest dose - certainly worked, I was quite happy to 'fly' - but my friends told me it had changed my personality, I was totally unaware of this and so decided to come off 'em.. seems I was to gradually decrease the dose, over weeks.
Nah, sod that, I thought, be 'interesting' to see what happens, to see if I could. So I stopped. Immediate effect was I slept solid for about 17 hours, woke up for half an hour and slept for another 5 hours.. had hallucinations, sweats, shivers the works, but over the days it got less and less and I'm fine.. maybe I'm lucky but it was my "personal responsibility" in the end..
*Tramadol is associated with the development of physical dependence and a severe withdrawal syndrome causes typical opiate-like withdrawal symptoms as well as atypical withdrawal symptoms including seizures Tramadol withdrawal lasts longer than that of other opioids; seven days or more of acute withdrawal symptoms can occur as opposed to typically three or four days for other codeine analogues.
AliciaMackinnon
05-Feb-11, 20:08
Right, and once they've been forced through cold turkey we can put them on incapacity benefit to get them through the depression/social problems that led to their addiction problems in the first place. I'm not saying everyone with an addiction is depressed, but often there are underlying problems behind addiction, and they can be enough in themselves to stop a person working and leading a productive life.
New mums often get post natal depression and dont get incapicity benefit!!! Just because you are a little drepressed doesnt mean the world stops turning just for you! As a sufferer of P.N.D I was given anti depressants and told to deal with it! If I stopped and had to get help for myhself what would have happned to my daughter?
Drug addicts and alcoholics who are getting incapacity benefit must have worked and paid NI to get incapacity benefit. You had to have paid to qualify. If they haven't worked they will not get incapacity benefits and will get income support. And as for getting off drugs or booze where is the help? What help is there in Caithness to assist people with getting out of addiction? The waiting list for counselling on the NHS to deal with some of the issues which can lead to a slide into addiction is over a year, that's no help to anyone. Beechwood is or already has closed in Inverness. What else is there?
Whilst I agree that you have to WANT to get out of the addiction to succeed that is not the same as having a choice. For those of you that don't believe addicts should get benefits I would hope you volunteer for a support charity that helps addicts come off their particular crutch, or maybe volunteer with organisations who exist to tackle some of the problems which can lead to addictions. Mental health or bereavement or abuse for example. Or maybe the Samaritans which can help people avoid reaching for a drink in the middle of the night when there is no one else. But of course people are responsible for themselves aren't they so why would you bother. It's not like society has any responsibility is it.
..... and look for someone to blame or to help them out.
It is easy for people to look to blame someone or something else but sometimes when they ask for help, it could be that the 'responsible' angel on their shoulder is helping them ask for that. Help!
Should the response be to ignore their plea for help and let them carry on in a viscous circle descending into their early demise, all funded by the tax payer of course.
People often cannot help themselves, but if they can acknowledge they need help and they seek it they should get it.
The prescribing of Methadone, needs looking into.
This drug is supposed to be a step in the right direction, to wean them off Heroin.
Most addicts once on Methadone, find it near on impossible to get off it.
I know of people who have been on Methadone for over 10 years. The dosage is supposed to drop over a period of time.
This happens, then the addict goes back in and says they are suffering and need the dose to go back up.
A lot of these are on incapacity benefit. The whole drugs issue needs to be looked at.
Also Alcoholics should not be given extra benefit for their addition. They are basically being given money to drink and kill them selves.
I do not know the answers to what should be done, i have ideas. But what i do know is,what is being done now.Is not the answer.
canadagirl
05-Feb-11, 21:24
People often cannot help themselves, but if they can acknowledge they need help and they seek it they should get it.
I agree completely on this! I've heard from people who've asked their GP for help to stop drinking and got nowhere. But I also think if able bodied people had to get up and dig ditches for 8 hours a day to feed themselves they would soon get off the drugs.
I do not believe that where people are concerned anything can be seen as black or white, neither can it be seen through rose coloured glasses.
In my reply to changilass, I believe I said drugs (in any form), to spell that out - it means drugs taken by swollowing, inhaling, smoking, needle, prescribed or unprescribed. I wasn't just referring to drugs, but smoking and alcohol as well in my reply because they to are addictive, and I said, if allowed to be.
Kodiak, as you only picked up on the drugs aspect along with one or two others, I look at it that by taking a little bit of responsiblity for myself, I always ask about any medication I am given, I am the one who is taking it. After all there are not that many drugs that if taken for long enough are not ADDICTIVE. If you are on a particular drug that is causing addiction surely you go back to your doctor and ask about it, either how to come off it or be changed
to something that is not going to cause addiction. Unless like Bekisman and go 'cold turkey'. That is what I mean by taking a bit of responsibility for oneself. After all a medication is there to be prescribed to one and all with the same illness, but, not ALL respond the same way to that medication, some can take it others have a reaction to it, some can become addicted to it, others do not. We are ALL different, but YOU are the one taking it.
Likewise You are the one who starts smoking, which becomes an addiction if continued,
You are the one who drinks alcohol, again this is something which others have said is taken for different reasons, its still YOUR decison to take it, YOUR RESPONSIBLITY.
Oh, just for the record and the benefit of one or two, I spent 25 years as volunteer with several charities until I had to give up 11 year ago, due to becoming a full time carer.
Also the village where I used to live had a Drugs Rehabilitation Centre, one of the very few in that part of the country.
I do not believe that where people are concerned anything can be seen as black or white"YOUR RESPONSIBLITY" ? Hmmmm.....black & white.....
f you are on a particular drug that is causing addiction surely you go back to your doctor and ask about it, either how to come off it or be changed to something that is not going to cause addiction. Assuming one is in the position to actually be aware and understand what the drug, or drugs, are doing to you. And be knowledgeable and capable of understanding what is happening with the drugs on ones body.
Don't forget a huge number of people still put their faith, blindly, in their physician or GP. Many are afraid to question their doctor. And why should they?
Unless like Bekisman and go 'cold turkey'. That is what I mean by taking a bit of responsibility for oneself.Fair play to Beks but it could well be argued what he did was not 'responsible': "seems I was to gradually decrease the dose, over weeks" But he took 'responsibility' and through cold turkey suffered a tad, it seems.
We are ALL different, but YOU are the one taking it. ....its still YOUR decison to take it, YOUR RESPONSIBLITY.Decision? The quack says 'take these, one three times a day'.
When you're ill, be it a cold, man flu or cancer. And a doctor gives a prescription I doubt very many people ever start pondering the risk of becoming addicted. You see, one of the problems with addiction is that it happens to someone else, right?!
I was prescribed Morphine during my cancer treatment and radiotherapy.As soon as i could i did the same as Bekisman.
I was also told i could take them for my pain now. I chose not to.
After discussion i then with consultation chose another form of pain relief.
Whilst on one of my regular visits to hospital for check ups. I was offered another more specialist pain relief, to suit the type of pain i have. I looked into this and the contraindications were horrendous.
So i refused to take them, and am still taking the original pain relief. I try not to take it all the time, as i like to be in control.
I am a strong willed person, but understand that not everyone is the same as me.
Re Phill
I may have been 'advised' by someone else, but I took control of my own responsibility, I did not want to waste weeks to come down to 'normal' - I know I would not die, 'cold turkey' is simply another way to come off anything rather quickly - did the same with alcohol after being unconscious for near 72 hours as a stupid 18 year old soldier - stopped totally and completely, been tee-total since.
My ethos has always been to challenge myself; can't swim (have negative buoyancy, which was discovered in the Forces and confirmed in the Fire service) but still kayaked the English Channel in 8 hours and gained a place in the Guinness Book of records for kayaking 800 miles of The Rhine from Switzerland to Holland, and a further 4,000 miles of rivers in Europe and Far East.. I wore a buoyancy Aid. 'Personal Responsibility' is always there.
The Drunken Duck
06-Feb-11, 14:26
I dont understand why the condition of alcoholics and drug addicts is called a disability. Unless it is a perscription drug where people can unwittingly find themselves addicted. It isnt a disability, its a self inflicted condition outside that one exception. As for help for them I cannot help but recall when I came back from Bosnia having seen some horrific sights, I went to my GP and was told that there was no help for me through the NHS. Luckily I had Combat Stress to turn to, but not before I suffered nightmares and flashbacks, one of which even resulted in my snapping out of it to find I had my wife pinned to the wall by the throat. But I volunteered and was there through no ones fault or choices but my own. So I can appreciate the good work that charities do but lets face it folks if your an alcoholic or a drug addict hooked on smack your no different to me in that situation. Your condition is down to your choices. And you have to want to change, that is the essence of personal responsibility.
I dont agree that society plays some part. That's an excuse peddled out by those who seem to want to further the view that personal responsibility is of no consequence. I disagree, I think as we are all part of society and have an obligation to be a contributor and not a burden. Those who willingly make themselves the latter should get a boot in the buttocks and not labelled as disabled, that is utter tosh. Surely at some point of waking up sweating and drenched in puke after another bender or fix surely something in the brain says "Man, I am wasting my life here" but most seem to ignore that.
There are people at Selly Oak in Birmingham who, through their own personal choiced have lost a limb, often more than one. You dont see them sitting around bleating about it as they have a positive attitude that fires them onto bigger and better things. In fact some of them are on a polar trek right now. So I dont see why addicts should get Incapacity as they arent, they should get basic Income Support to cover living costs and thats it. Why are these people getting more money per week than people actively looking for work anyway ??, if they are victims they are self made ones. And I resent paying Tax and NI to prop them up.
Shabbychic
06-Feb-11, 15:42
QUOTE FROM ARTICLE
Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Chris Grayling said: “Drug or alcohol dependency does not of itself confer entitlement to incapacity benefits. Claimants have to undertake a medical assessment. People with a recorded diagnosis of alcohol or drug dependency may have other diagnoses, for example mental illness, which result in their incapacity for work.”
This part of the article appears to have been completely ignored.:confused
I wasn't just referring to drugs, but smoking and alcohol as well in my reply because they to are addictive, and I said, if allowed to be.
Tobacco and alcohol are, in fact, both addictive drugs.
You cannot separate them from the rest
QUOTE FROM ARTICLE
Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Chris Grayling said: “Drug or alcohol dependency does not of itself confer entitlement to incapacity benefits. Claimants have to undertake a medical assessment. People with a recorded diagnosis of alcohol or drug dependency may have other diagnoses, for example mental illness, which result in their incapacity for work.”
This part of the article appears to have been completely ignored.:confused
That part of the article does not make as good a sound byte as the title.
That part of the article does not make as good a sound byte as the title.
Yea, that's true...
roadbowler
06-Feb-11, 20:17
Perhaps we really should consider the fact that Britain has played an enormous part in proliferating opium/heroin use in the East and arguably here as well. We even won two wars over it less than 200 years ago. Nowadays, when a faction instigates wars to secure their trade in drugs we call that faction a Drug Cartel. Don't we?
How many British troops are currently serving in Helmand province in Afghanistan, the biggest area of opium production on the planet? In 2006, poppy production rose 17 percent. All the heroin on the streets today in Britain comes from Afghanistan. Considering the Talibans main source of revenue comes from the taxes they impose on poppy farmers crops, the more we fight them, the more poppies they need to produce to fight back!
In effect, the British government is largely to blame for the heroin problems in this country. It would be a bit cheeky if they weren't willing to help out the abusers of this highly addictive drug wouldn't it? Perhaps the taxpayers are only now really paying for our ancestors cheap tea and silk in the 1800's.
oh wait... isn't britain a big exporter and producer of alcohol, another addictive and potentially destructive drug? I believe the government make a few billion in revenue off the back of taxes on alcohol every year alone so, surely we canna begrudge our victims of this drug trade a few bob either?
Just another way of looking at it! ;)
changilass
06-Feb-11, 20:23
Going by that definition, its mother natures fault that folks commit suicide off Beachy Head, cos she made it.
Tobacco and alcohol are, in fact, both addictive drugs.
But Tobacco and alcohol are legal , Sugar & Salt are addictive as are many other things, but I will not be prosecuted for using them or having them in my home, thats how I separate them.
roadbowler
06-Feb-11, 20:35
It would be the same if some folk erected a 40 foot high wall on beachy head to prevent people from jumping and mother nature took great exception to this and killed thousands of these folk before they eventually surrendered and took the wall down so people could jump again. Twice. Certainly then it would be the same.
It would be the same if some folk erected a 40 foot high wall on beachy head to prevent people from jumping and mother nature took great exception to this and killed thousands of these folk before they eventually surrendered and took the wall down so people could jump again. Twice. Certainly then it would be the same.
You don't seem to bring personal responsibility into this...
roadbowler
06-Feb-11, 21:18
I do. I'm saying there is inevitably going to be "casualties" in the drugs trade no matter whether it is legal drugs or illegal ones. I'm merely pointing out a bit of history that is very much causal to the matter that spawned the thread. I recognise availability of incap benefits for these folk is viewed as economic mitigation in their eyes. Kinda like fags revenue and nhs expenditure on smoking related illnesses.
I do. I'm saying there is inevitably going to be "casualties" in the drugs trade no matter whether it is legal drugs or illegal ones. I'm merely pointing out a bit of history that is very much causal to the matter that spawned the thread. I recognise availability of incap benefits for these folk is viewed as economic mitigation in their eyes. Kinda like fags revenue and nhs expenditure on smoking related illnesses.
In the Western World, There is a Moral and sometimes Contractual 'Duty to Accomodate' a person who has an addiction, whether it be Drugs or Alcohol.
It's like the old dog story...A dog gets it's first bite free!....So people are helped/assited in an attempt to return them to a useful life.
Many of us make mistakes....some are caught, others are ignored or perhaps no one knows about them.
I think sometimes we overdo the 'Assistance' but for many of us....There but by the Grace of God go I!
knittingkitten04
06-Feb-11, 22:14
For info there is Caithness alcohol and drug dependency service who offer evidence based treatment for those wanting help, there is currently no waiting list, people can be referred via their gp or any other professional ; there is also alcoholics and narcotics anonymous in Caithness, more info can be found on their websites
But Tobacco and alcohol are legal , Sugar & Salt are addictive as are many other things, but I will not be prosecuted for using them or having them in my home, thats how I separate them.
Why does this post not surprise me?
Why does this post not surprise me?
It's a valid point though.
Legality is a major difference here.
Why does this post not surprise me?
Thats is what I would expect coming from you [lol]
I was quoting verbatim, your last reply to my last post on another thread.
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