View Full Version : Classroom assistants
Cannot believe the Highland council are seriously thinking about axing classroom assistants from our schools,having seen the work and support they give to our children I think it is a disgrace this is even being considerd.Do they not realise the impact this will have on our childrens educational needs ,or maybe they just don`t care !!!
Here Here!! I am totally in agreement with you. They are obviously not thinking of the childrens needs!
I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well. Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own...
Well done Highland Council!!
C3....[lol]
I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well. Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own...
Well done Highland Council!!
C3....[lol]
Do you really think that the standard of education you recieved was better? If we are of a similair age, then we had similair teaching methods applied: I was taught on text books that had not changed in maybe 20 years. I was taught what still is the three core subjects: reading, writing, arithmetic and had a little history, geography and science thrown in. Now there is so much more in terms of subject matter. And the curriculum changes from year to year. When I was at school, education was something that was done to you. You learned to memorize, not to think. The pupils participation in the act of being educated was limited to memorization not learning. When I was in School you sank or you swam. Everyone recieved tuition at the same rate, were tested to the same criteria and either passed or did not. Those that did not were often relegated to a class of weak pupils and finally forgotten about. Those that sank are now the vast number of functioning illiterates that did not have the same opportunities that those that swam did. Now every child matters and is taught to their individual ability and it is not acceptable to allow those that cannot cope behind (and classroom assistants are essential for this to happen, especially in composite classes). I take it you were a swimmer, Corrie. How would you feel if your child was not coping and the teacher left him to get on with it as best he could.
Finally, when I got to the end of school, a very small percentage of kids had real choice in their futures ( those that swam). The rest did what they could ( from my primary class, as far as I am aware, 6 out of 32 went to further education, which was actually quite good. Nowadays highschool gets you a dead-end job unless you are one of the very lucky few that get an apprenticeship. The others have to go on to futher education to have a hope of a career of any sort. Many more pupils nowadays go on to further education than did when I left school.
If teaching is such an easy career with all these aditional benefits, I wonder that it is not hugely over-subscribed. think that dealing with people, day in day out, in intense learning situations is an exhausting day. Teachers do not get a free ride. It is a job that no money could persuade me to do.
Here Here!! I am totally in agreement with you. They are obviously not thinking of the childrens needs!
They are not thinking! Wonder if they would cut these posts if they were predominately staffed by men? Bet they are going to pay less to those that they re-deploy - no doubt they will still expect them to do the same job as before.
Management posts should be cut - too many managers, co-ordinatores etc --- and dare I say it - councillors!
I expect more unexpected cuts will surface shortly.
lindsaymcc
02-Feb-11, 18:36
Do you really think that the standard of education you recieved was better? If we are of a similair age, then we had similair teaching methods applied: I was taught on text books that had not changed in maybe 20 years. I was taught what still is the three core subjects: reading, writing, arithmetic and had a little history, geography and science thrown in. Now there is so much more in terms of subject matter. And the curriculum changes from year to year. When I was at school, education was something that was done to you. You learned to memorize, not to think. The pupils participation in the act of being educated was limited to memorization not learning. When I was in School you sank or you swam. Everyone recieved tuition at the same rate, were tested to the same criteria and either passed or did not. Those that did not were often relegated to a class of weak pupils and finally forgotten about. Those that sank are now the vast number of functioning illiterates that did not have the same opportunities that those that swam did. Now every child matters and is taught to their individual ability and it is not acceptable to allow those that cannot cope behind (and classroom assistants are essential for this to happen, especially in composite classes). I take it you were a swimmer, Corrie. How would you feel if your child was not coping and the teacher left him to get on with it as best he could.
Finally, when I got to the end of school, a very small percentage of kids had real choice in their futures ( those that swam). The rest did what they could ( from my primary class, as far as I am aware, 6 out of 32 went to further education, which was actually quite good. Nowadays highschool gets you a dead-end job unless you are one of the very lucky few that get an apprenticeship. The others have to go on to futher education to have a hope of a career of any sort. Many more pupils nowadays go on to further education than did when I left school.
If teaching is such an easy career with all these aditional benefits, I wonder that it is not hugely over-subscribed. think that dealing with people, day in day out, in intense learning situations is an exhausting day. Teachers do not get a free ride. It is a job that no money could persuade me to do.
Agree with every single word. The loss of TAs will cause a lot of children to slip through the net.
Alice in Blunderland
02-Feb-11, 18:55
Classroom assistants out of all the options were seen probably as one of the easier targets when making the cuts. :(
My worry in all this is that with the aid of a classroom assistant providing additional support to the teacher,devoting a little extra time to individual pupils or groups of pupils the children who are just coping without the need of learning support will struggle. This in turn will mean that more children will then have to be assessed for learning support as they fall behind and struggle, more learning support than is already in place is then going to needed. Not quite achieving the end results required by the council and all at the expense of the children.
lindsaymcc
02-Feb-11, 18:57
Also, in cases of a mixed year class, surely they would need more teachers. A single teacher in the class, can not be expected to teach 2 different age groups/year groups without additional support. So what would happen to all the mixed year classes?!
Cannot believe the Highland council are seriously thinking about axing classroom assistants from our schools,having seen the work and support they give to our children I think it is a disgrace this is even being considerd.Do they not realise the impact this will have on our childrens educational needs ,or maybe they just don`t care !!!
Wait a minute....when Classroom Assistants were first mooted years ago, the cry went up..."Cannot believe it....the good work of our teachers will be undermined...just a way of getting teachers on the cheap....they're not even qualified teachers....don't they realise the impact this will have on our childrens' education...etc...etc." or words to that effect.
How times change.
onecalledk
02-Feb-11, 20:30
I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well. Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own...
Well done Highland Council!!
C3....[lol]
I can tell you a lot of stories of people who are walking around thinking they are stupid due to the education they received when at school at this time! A lot of older adults will not attend night classes or go back to further education due to the way they were treated in the "good old days". Adults who were slow to learn as children or who were dyslexic but labelled trouble or stupid. There lives have been damaged by their school days quite dramatically.
Every child learns at his/her own pace and this has to be taken into consideration in todays schooling. It is not appropriate to have large classes and just "get on" with it. I used to work as a union learning rep and the horror stories from people about why education wasnt for them would make your hair curl. People who genuinely thought that they could do no better cos they havent got qualifications and genuinely FEARED the classroom. It was always nice to see people take the plunge, go back to education and start learning again, becoming confident BECAUSE the way education is taught has changed.
Not sure where the government thinks young people are going to do any learning at all between the cuts in education at primary/secondary level and cuts in funding at higher education level. We will be faced with a generation who have nothing to do if it all continues.
Its appauling that in the 21st century there ARE STILL children leaving school who cannot read or write properly. Education should have MORE money poured into it not taken out of it .....
K
Its appauling that in the 21st century there ARE STILL children leaving school who cannot read or write properly. Education should have MORE money poured into it not taken out of it .....
K
Education has never had so much money thrown at it as these last 15 years and yes you are right, there are plenty who leave who cannot read or write....In the good old days as you call them at least everyone could read and write and this was just with one teacher to up to 50 kids. I say it doesnt need more money or more body's, it needs teachers with more skills and a backing from Govt if a Teacher doesnt come up to scratch then they will be sacked and replaced with one who can teach kids properly!! As has been stated, when Assistants were intoduced there was an uproar from teachers and their Unions and now they are saying they shoudnt be cut back on???...C'mon, what do you want?
C3.
Alice in Blunderland
02-Feb-11, 21:43
I wish my dad was following this thread and the claims that are being made about education in the good old days. Unfortunately he seemed to be able to leave school unable to read or write much. In his class of almost fifty children it went unnoticed or should I say uncared about.
Education has never had so much money thrown at it as these last 15 years and yes you are right, there are plenty who leave who cannot read or write....In the good old days as you call them at least everyone could read and write and this was just with one teacher to up to 50 kids. I say it doesnt need more money or more body's, it needs teachers with more skills and a backing from Govt if a Teacher doesnt come up to scratch then they will be sacked and replaced with one who can teach kids properly!! As has been stated, when Assistants were intoduced there was an uproar from teachers and their Unions and now they are saying they shoudnt be cut back on???...C'mon, what do you want?C3.
I agree with almost everything you have said on this thread C3. I think that the lack of numeracy and literacy skills in the majority of young folk is possibly down to the curriculum and the emphasis on subjects and activities outwith the basic reading, writing and arithmetic which should be the basis for all education. If students aren't being corrected in these subjects when they submit coursework then the system is failing them. Yes, there are more people going to university and college than there were when I was younger but their standard of basic education is poor to say the least. I know of a 30 year old professional whose spelling and grammar is appalling. She may know her chosen subject but her credibility as a professional is subsequently in serious question.
The large classes of yesteryear are not something we should aspire to in this day and age but the teaching methods shouldn't be criticised as they worked. Some classroom assistants aren't up to scratch academically anyway and they shouldn't be used as a substitute for trained teachers.
I wish my dad was following this thread and the claims that are being made about education in the good old days. Unfortunately he seemed to be able to leave school unable to read or write much. In his class of almost fifty children it went unnoticed or should I say uncared about.
Yes Alice, we were uncared about I must admit because we were only churned out to do Manual work,Factory work, minework etc but everyone I knew at school was able to read and write and do nice neat handwriting because we used to have handwriting lessons, yes, its true, handwriting lessons and woe betide anyone who's handwriting was untidy or leaned to the left or you got an ink blot on your page. We were punished and punished hard and I tell you what, it did us no harm at all, we didnt need a classromm assistant, the teacher could control us and teach us at the same time.....When you had to leave school at 15 and be ready to do a Man's job you thanked the Teachers who were so hard on us!!...I am sorry to say that todays kids are wrapped in cotton wool and it does them no good at all!!
C3.
I may be a bit younger than C3 (auld git) :eek: but I can testify that most of my teachers were psychopaths. I could not wait to leave school, which I did at 15. I could read and write though and after one false start I embarked on my chosen career ladder and never looked back. I may have been tempted to further education, I enjoy training, but alas, I have always been too busy working ;)
Precisely my point Ducati. You are an articulate, hard working member of society who was equipped with enough education and common sense (well that's maybe exaggerating things;):lol:) to leave school at 15. How many of today's youngsters would be able to do that?
Maybe if the teachers were allowed to whack unruly pupils across the back of the head like they used to would help, instead of being scared of them nowadays.
i dont want to add oil onto the fire but I ve been a primary school teacher in France and you dont have any teaching assistant there and you have to cope with it, that s part of the job and the training you have to be able to teach to all pupils and be available to all of them at least one to one in each lesson, and prepare different exercises regarding each pupils level. i m not blaming the teachers far be it from me cause i know it s not always easy and fun ,but maybe improving teachers training would be beneficial to everyone .once again teachers work far more than people think, i remembered i never had any poper full free gweek end cause i had to correct everything and think about the next week an plan everything. that s a never ending job and quite demanding , so to those who think teachers have it easy, well see if you can do better!
i dont want to add oil onto the fire but I ve been a primary school teacher in France and you dont have any teaching assistant there and you have to cope with it, that s part of the job and the training you have to be able to teach to all pupils and be available to all of them at least one to one in each lesson, and prepare different exercises regarding each pupils level. i m not blaming the teachers far be it from me cause i know it s not always easy and fun ,but maybe improving teachers training would be beneficial to everyone .once again teachers work far more than people think, i remembered i never had any poper full free gweek end cause i had to correct everything and think about the next week an plan everything. that s a never ending job and quite demanding , so to those who think teachers have it easy, well see if you can do better!
I don't think that teachers have it easy in the least. As I said previously, I blame the curriculum and a lack of discipline and respect for the teachers for the failure of many to achieve their potential at school.
Good old days or bad old days? It's not about education or children it's about MONEY!
20years ago if you got into trouble in school or caused trouble outside you parents heard about it & you got solid hell. Society had more values & respect back then. In many cases parents just don't seem to care.
Teachers need help today because many children just don't have respect for them (or anyone else). Assistants are needed to help teach & control children who are rude & disruptive, because they have not been taught social values by their parents. The council shouts about inclusion of special needs, if teachers don't have help they can't include. Disruption of whatever kind doesn't help any child in the class. When its happening hourly, daily, weekly, all the children suffer. MORE assistants are needed not less. If assistants are cut, will the disruptive pupils be removed? Is this the next step?
The Music Monster
03-Feb-11, 00:55
It is a sad thing that these cuts are being made. When I was teaching in schools I truly appreciated the help and support that the TAs would give. It is not just that they are an extra pair of eyes - because contrary to popular belief, we teachers don't have eyes in the back of our heads (don't tell the kids, though!) - it is also that they are able to help with pupils that benefit from a one-to one style of teaching.
Education may not be what it was back in your day, but it will be a whole lot worse if TAs are axed. And for those of you who think that teachers have it easy with stacks of holidays and short days - try and tackle half of the paperwork required and you'll realise how many long holidays go down the drain!!!
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating, but I think this will turn out to be a bad move...
Teachers need help today because many children just don't have respect for them (or anyone else). Assistants are needed to help teach & control children who are rude & disruptive, because they have not been taught social values by their parents. The council shouts about inclusion of special needs, if teachers don't have help they can't include. Disruption of whatever kind doesn't help any child in the class. When its happening hourly, daily, weekly, all the children suffer. MORE assistants are needed not less. If assistants are cut, will the disruptive pupils be removed? Is this the next step?
Where are the parents in all this? Do we absolve them of all responsibility? I would have thought that the educating of children involved parents too!
The truth is that in recent years many parents have become too reliant on someone else to bring up their offspring. It is not uncommon for children to arrive in reception class unable to carry out the simplest of tasks. There was always one or two children with difficulties and they were discreetly helped. But these days many children can't chew their food properly, they eat with their fingers and many aren't even properly toilet trained!
You can have any number of TAs but all their efforts are worth diddly-squat if parents don't pull their weight. Children are for life - not just until their are four or five!
Aaldtimer
03-Feb-11, 05:13
i dont want to add oil onto the fire but I ve been a primary school teacher in France and you dont have any teaching assistant there and you have to cope with it, that s part of the job and the training you have to be able to teach to all pupils and be available to all of them at least one to one in each lesson, and prepare different exercises regarding each pupils level. i m not blaming the teachers far be it from me cause i know it s not always easy and fun ,but maybe improving teachers training would be beneficial to everyone .once again teachers work far more than people think, i remembered i never had any poper full free gweek end cause i had to correct everything and think about the next week an plan everything. that s a never ending job and quite demanding , so to those who think teachers have it easy, well see if you can do better!
Well, I hope you weren't teaching English, or punctuation!:confused
I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well. Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own...
Well done Highland Council!!
C3....[lol] perhaps corrie should have a name change to TORY! i cannot believe you are happy with Caithness people losing their jobs! Shame on you!
perhaps corrie should have a name change to TORY! i cannot believe you are happy with Caithness people losing their jobs! Shame on you!
I have never voted Tory in my life and never will do kendo so sorry, no name change. And I am never happy when people lose their jobs but we must get best value for our council tax and I dont think that assistants are best value when for years Teachers have managed very well on their own. Are you prepared to pay more in council tax just to keep these people in non-jobs, I know I'm not!! I would sooner see the council keeping our gritters, binmen, dog warden etc,etc, than classroom assistants!!
C3...:roll:
Where are the parents in all this? Do we absolve them of all responsibility? I would have thought that the educating of children involved parents too!
The truth is that in recent years many parents have become too reliant on someone else to bring up their offspring. It is not uncommon for children to arrive in reception class unable to carry out the simplest of tasks. There was always one or two children with difficulties and they were discreetly helped. But these days many children can't chew their food properly, they eat with their fingers and many aren't even properly toilet trained!
You can have any number of TAs but all their efforts are worth diddly-squat if parents don't pull their weight. Children are for life - not just until their are four or five!
I agree. I do know someone who's just like that. Doesn't have a clue at how to raise a child.
Not so long ago parents were wanting a fence up around a local play area. Ie the fence is the babysitter. Any parents should know that they must always keep an eye on their kids and not expect something to keep them in. So in a time where a fence is the babysitter and eyes and ears of the parent its not surprising that some parents aren't taking full responsilbity of their kids when they are at school. Unfortunatly the ones that are get overshadowed by the one that don't.
In school most of my classes were disrupted constantly by the same kids. The teachers spent more time getting them to be quiet and pay attention than they did teaching. Same kids were in detention all the time. Their parents obviously didn't care. I never got detention, i knew what i'd get at home if i did! My parents expected high things of me and their disapointment stung.
In alot of cases now the kids are too unruly and the teachers are tied with red tape. There isn't much they can do. The teachers do the best they can but its hard when it comes to unruly kids always disrupting the class because they know they can and won't get a severe punishment for it. In this case the parent has got to reinforce the teacher's authority.
I dont think that assistants are best value when for years Teachers have managed very well on their own. Are you prepared to pay more in council tax just to keep these people in non-jobs, I know I'm not!!
My cousin is a Primary School teacher and she regards Classroom Assistants as a bloody nuisance. They have to be supervised and monitored by the classroom teacher, and often have nothing to do.
And I am never happy when people lose their jobs but we must get best value for our council tax and I dont think that assistants are best value when for years Teachers have managed very well on their own. C3...:roll:
44% of Scottish adults are funcioning illiterates and inumerates. I do not think this indicates that teachers were "managing on their own".
44% of Scottish adults are funcioning illiterates and inumerates.
You'd better make that 45% now then! :lol::lol:
I agree. I do know someone who's just like that. Doesn't have a clue at how to raise a child.
Not so long ago parents were wanting a fence up around a local play area. Ie the fence is the babysitter. Any parents should know that they must always keep an eye on their kids and not expect something to keep them in. So in a time where a fence is the babysitter and eyes and ears of the parent its not surprising that some parents aren't taking full responsilbity of their kids when they are at school. Unfortunatly the ones that are get overshadowed by the one that don't.
In school most of my classes were disrupted constantly by the same kids. The teachers spent more time getting them to be quiet and pay attention than they did teaching. Same kids were in detention all the time. Their parents obviously didn't care. I never got detention, i knew what i'd get at home if i did! My parents expected high things of me and their disapointment stung.
In alot of cases now the kids are too unruly and the parents are tied with red tape. There isn't much they can do. The teachers do the best they can but its hard when it comes to unruly kids always disrupting the class because they know they can and won't get a severe punishment for it. In this case the parent has got to reinforce the teacher's authority.
You make very valid points.
As a mature student at Edinburgh University I saw lots of younger students turn their backs on teaching for the reasons you mention. Later as a PostGrad at Strathclyde University I saw potential teachers in training hemmoraging from their courses. The teaching profession was having to offer 'golden hello' payments to entice people into the profession.
Of the people who stayed the course and went into teaching most of them wanted to work in private education where discipline and parental support was much more prevalent.
Back to the issue - I find it sad and a little disturbing that despite the vast amounts of money thrown at education, the introduction of TAs, the adjustments/changes to the curriculum, league tables etc. the quality of the outcome is actually poorer than it was 5, 10, or 20 years ago.
Taxpayers have the right to expect value for money and many don't think we're getting that right now. In the private sector if a school isn't fulfilling the parents' and pupils' needs/expectations it will fold.
Perhaps it is time for an overhaul of the state education system.
You'd better make that 45% now then! :lol::lol:
:lol: If my type-o proves me an illiterate, then your understanding of percentages proves you innumerate. We must have been from the sinkers class then, hey?
Alice in Blunderland
03-Feb-11, 13:31
No matter what we now have a situation where many people have suddenly found themselves about to be paid off. As in many other lines of work times are hard and this is just the start. I predict many more redundancies from Highland Council and not just in the Education sector. Difficult times ahead for many people :(
As a teacher I believe a good classroom assistant is worth their weight in gold.
A single teacher can teach a class but it is naive to think it wont change the way children are taught. The same goes for class size. Change the numbers of pupils and the types of resources available and what is taught and the style of teaching will change.
A teacher could teach a class of 45 on their own but it would not encourage a caring, nurturing and engaging learning environment. I guess it depends on the type of education you want for your child.
Are teachers skilled in using Accelerated Learning models? I have been involved in this field in industry for many years and apart from some initial conversations with an education department in the central belt I have not really seen much evidence of interest.
webmannie
03-Feb-11, 15:38
Ducati,
I got an email notification of my daughters latest Accelerated Reading test from Renaissance Home Connect yesterday (she is at Pennyland). Whether the teachers are skilled in Accelerated learning models is a different matter and i cannot comment, i would assume they are.
I certainly wasn't at the high standard she is at currently when i was that age, but then again i was classed as a 'thicko' and left to my own devices, the teachers focussed on those that excelled due to the class sizes. When i was at Primary it was a time of extraordinary class sizes, I remember having to climb over the desks in front to get in to my desk (Wick North 1966 ish)
Personally i think that these young people are our future and anything that helps increase standards is to be encouraged and fought for!
Hi webmannie, I don't think Accelerated Reading is related to Accelerated Learning. This is about the learning environment and helping students to move information from short term to long term memory. Some interesting stuff here: http://www.school-teacher-student-motivation-resources-courses.com/acceleratedlearning.html
wrightchatterbox
03-Feb-11, 18:07
I wish my dad was following this thread and the claims that are being made about education in the good old days. Unfortunately he seemed to be able to leave school unable to read or write much. In his class of almost fifty children it went unnoticed or should I say uncared about.
Totally agree - my husband is only 41 and recieved horrific treatment in both primary & secondary school, left behind is an understatement he was placed at the back of all the classes and only referred to by his surname!!! Needless to say he has no real reading/writing skills to speak of and still struggles today (although he has managed to start his own business) Although I feel that the only good thing about years ago is the teachers took no nonense and we were more reluctant to step out of line. My children have no fear of todays teachers and I'm sorry to say come home with some funny stories about the way some of their school mates speak to them.
Chrisf1961
03-Feb-11, 18:16
[QUOTE=Mouse;815664]Good old days or bad old days? It's not about education or children it's about MONEY!
EXACTLY!
rob murray
03-Feb-11, 18:43
We should cut to the quick with this : the cuts are based on gaining economic savings, end off ! Obviously this will lead to local job cuts. Stand back a bit though, we face an economic revolution with the Dounreay closure, I have argued repeatedly on this site that despite this forthcomming calamity or opportunity, Caithness has been steadily losing jobs and despite Condem rhetoric, the local private sector cannot by itself mop up public sector job losses that is currently an unargueable fact. Currently under threat is the tax office in Wick ( 30 jobs ) The proposed new high school build, closure of the library and swimming pool will alSo lead to job cuts as you dont need the same staff resources ( duplication between the schools and local library, part time availability for swimmers : assume that during the day the pool will be used by the school )
In my view Caithness has a special case to be made, given the Dounreay situation the only political choices to be made must be soley based on the economy and fight to both retain jobs in Caithness or to create them. The whole point of the new school build debate is that it completely misses the core arguement....yes do it but not at the cost of a single lost job ( which effectively kills the case dead doesnt it !!!! ), jobs are the absolute key to survival and Caithness will suffer and is suffering a slow death by a thousand cuts. Although saddened by the education cuts proposal maybe now people will wake up and see through the nonsense being peddled by local councillors and indeed MSP's and MP's. As Bill Clinton famously put it....ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID !!
.......because we were only churned out to do Manual work,Factory work, minework etc That's alright then, sack the TA's 'cos we can send the young 'uns down the mines (Hmm, there's a thought, don't bother sending them to school, get em' working: cheap labour. That's progress!)
Oh hang on a minute we've no mines or factories left and not much manual work so all the kids have to aspire to is the dole queue hey!
you thanked the Teachers who were so hard on us!! I bliddy didn't, I could quite happily 'thank' some them with a piece of 4x2 though.
I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well.
Aaahh the good ole days. I'm but a whipper snapper, with class sizes of about 30-35 ish and the some of the teachers were hard, hard but totally unfair and incapable of teaching. Some were great with the blackboard rubber though, brilliant way of teaching kids about the benefits of violence.
I remember my history teacher, quite a strict chappie too, maybe I should have thanked him. I spent two periods per week for two years copying verbatim from a history book. Lesson after lesson writing out page after page, no discussion or questions just writing whilst he sat reading novels and munching away on biccies.
Two years of history lessons and all I remembered was the first world war was started by some guy wot shot a guy or summit, apparently. (fortunately I have had the gumption since to find out a tad more about world history)
Also in the good ole days they weren't up on integrating children with learning difficulties or behavioural problems. They were farmed off to 'special' schools (or in the really really good ole days we just locked them up in institutions), so we got rid of special schools and integrate them in mainstream schools with TA's and the like. Not necessarily a bad idea in most cases and maybe even cost effective. Now however with an apparently poorer standard of education you'll be happy for the teacher to divert most of their attention to one pupil and let the rest suffer for the sake of a TA.
Precisely my point Ducati. You are an articulate, hard working member of society who was equipped with enough education and common sense:eek: ?!?!?!?
Where are the parents in all this? Do we absolve them of all responsibility?Valid point. It does seem to be accepted by many that the schools will take care of everything and when they don't it's 'society's' fault!
......I dont think that assistants are best value when for years Teachers have managed very well on their own. Are you prepared to pay more in council tax just to keep these people in non-jobs, I know I'm not!! I would sooner see the council keeping our gritters, binmen, dog warden etc,etc, than classroom assistantsTA's first, then the dog warden, then reduce the binmen (ooh look, fortnightly collections on the cards) then reduce the gritters (they can quietly loose them during the summer).
Some teachers, I would say a very few, have 'managed' very well on their own. At me senior school of about 30 ish teachers I'd say 6 could actually teach but only 3 of them could retain order in the classroom at the same time. Many of the others were very good with authority, the authority of a slipper or cane that was, taught me......errrm.....taught me.....to threaten people when I don't get my own way.
Yes it is about the money, but it should be value for money, not just cut cut cut.
You could always go for economies of scale, 60 to a class and thrash 'em to learn reading, 'riting, 'rithmatic and naff all else!
You could always go for economies of scale, 60 to a class and thrash 'em to learn reading, 'riting, 'rithmatic and naff all else!
Our kids are not even learning that these days Phill, can you please tell me what exactly they are learning at school today????
I will tell you,................ disrespect, how to get a girl pregnant and live off the state forevermore, how to have a good night out on a Friday..do you want me to go on??
There is absolutely no hope for this country while we keep making these non -jobs that are to be paid for by borrowing .... I didnt realise at the time but the teachers who beat me were doing it to help me in later life, and they did !!!!
C3...
ShelleyCowie
03-Feb-11, 22:54
I agree. I do know someone who's just like that. Doesn't have a clue at how to raise a child.
Not so long ago parents were wanting a fence up around a local play area. Ie the fence is the babysitter. Any parents should know that they must always keep an eye on their kids and not expect something to keep them in. So in a time where a fence is the babysitter and eyes and ears of the parent its not surprising that some parents aren't taking full responsilbity of their kids when they are at school. Unfortunatly the ones that are get overshadowed by the one that don't.
In school most of my classes were disrupted constantly by the same kids. The teachers spent more time getting them to be quiet and pay attention than they did teaching. Same kids were in detention all the time. Their parents obviously didn't care. I never got detention, i knew what i'd get at home if i did! My parents expected high things of me and their disapointment stung.
In alot of cases now the kids are too unruly and the teachers are tied with red tape. There isn't much they can do. The teachers do the best they can but its hard when it comes to unruly kids always disrupting the class because they know they can and won't get a severe punishment for it. In this case the parent has got to reinforce the teacher's authority.
I think i must have read this the wrong way Vis, everybody knows the basic parenting skills, its whether or not they are put into practice.
A fence around a local play area as a "baby sitter"? Is it the one by the boating pond by any chance? Because if it is, i quite agree in getting a fence. I dont think that the parents of the kids want to crack open the buckfast and smoke a few fags, its more a peace of mind thing IMO.
I got detention a handful of times, so what?! And yes, my mum did care.
Personally i believe you can not ever judge someones parenting by knowing half the story. Until you have lived and breathed what that parent does to try and enforce any rules/discapline then i believe nobody has the right to say anything.
Sorry but i see you as being judgemental in that comment. Just my opinion though.
Onekcalledk - I agree in what your saying about adults who lack confidence now because of their experience of education.
Shelly Bain - Yes your right I think people have an inate ability to parent but whether or not they use that ability is another thing.
From what I've seen these classroom assistants are invaluable for the support they give when it comes to behavioural things but I don't think they have anything to do with what is being taught that is for the teacher to do. I don't envy teachers their job.
Our kids are not even learning that these days Phill, can you please tell me what exactly they are learning at school today????
I will tell you,................ disrespect, how to get a girl pregnant and live off the state forevermore, how to have a good night out on a Friday..do you want me to go on??
There is absolutely no hope for this country while we keep making these non -jobs that are to be paid for by borrowing .... I didnt realise at the time but the teachers who beat me were doing it to help me in later life, and they did !!!!
C3...
Here here, back in your day you were educated to work down a mine or to operate a machine gun. Times have changed a little, so while you say the education of today is terrible, I'm sure yours was much worse relative to jobs in this century.
Notice my correct use of grammar? I rest my case.:)
Corrie 3, your worried about what our council tax is getting spent on?
If we don't try early intervetion to help kids that need it now, then where and who does it all fall to? When they have left school and are in coucil houses, claiming for kids and throwing their rubbish into the streets and being a bad neighbour that will impact on services too. That's when the community is left to pick them up, voluntary and statutory agencies. Right now who takes responsibility for kids that are not attending school?
I'd rather my council tax was spent on services when kids are in school to help them and prevent problems in later life.
These days its all about inclusion, so the kids that would have been in remedial classes or "special schools" in the "old days" are included in the normal class.
That is why its important to have the classroom assistants.
If all the kids that are needing extra help to learn or for behaviour problems, had specialist teachers and classes, it would cost the government more money than what it costs now for the teaching assistants!
Our kids are not even learning that these days Phill, can you please tell me what exactly they are learning at school today????
I will tell you,................ disrespect, how to get a girl pregnant and live off the state forevermore, how to have a good night out on a Friday..do you want me to go on??
There is absolutely no hope for this country while we keep making these non -jobs that are to be paid for by borrowing .... I didnt realise at the time but the teachers who beat me were doing it to help me in later life, and they did !!!!
C3...
These are the things they are learning at HOME and not at school. On one hand you expect parents to have a greater reponsibility in the education of their children. On the other you want the school to counter-act the education they are recieving at home?
Please explain how the good ole' days of excellent schools according to your opinion produced a nation of functional illiterates?
I've been to have a look at the details of the cuts, and cutting classroom assistants is just one of the proposals for education cuts:
http://www.highland.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/AD6BBBAD-A526-4629-BF24-92D4E37F60C4/0/Item3BookletB.pdf
As well as cutting all classroom assistants, the proposals include:
reduced management time for head teachers and senior staff (less time in the office, more time committed to teaching classes)
a 10% reduction to the supply cover budget for classroom teachers who are absent
a 10% reduction the budget for classroom equipment and materials
cutting 20 of the many classroom teacher posts which are currently created on an annual basis according to need in order to allow each school to have an acceptable number of children in each class (this need varies with each school roll each year and, so far, these posts have been created according to that need... So 20 fewer posts will be 20 classes without teachers..? Or about 560 pupils being allocated to other classrooms, making class sizes bigger?)
and, last but not least, "school amalgamations" otherwise known as school closures, as highlighted on the front page of today's Groat - more evidence of the Highland Council desperately cramming as many children into as few classrooms as possible in order to save money.
So yes, if our councillors agree to all these cuts, it does seem probable that we might have to return to the days of sitting in rows, making do with ancient textbooks and copying notes off the blackboard... oh no, sorry, we are in the 21st century now - whiteboard! ;)
It's interesting that no-one's mentioned the Curriculum for Excellence on this thread. There is simply no way that it can be implemented effectively if these cuts go ahead. And implemented badly, it is a recipe for educational disaster and chaos in our classrooms.
Quality education costs money, and it seems we have none. Oh dear.
your cousin must have her hand,s full with her 3 pupil,s, classroom asst,s do more work are less paid, with-out them school education will be worse off
peter macdonald
06-Feb-11, 19:51
£105,450.00 wage of the Education head in Inverness.....
and his underlings
http://www.highland.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/ED18B228-B28A-4B53-9940-0C173AD7B0CA/0/20110107ecscontacts.pdf Dont know their wages would estimate in the region of £70-80K each
[QUOTE=Corrie 3;815938]Our kids are not even learning that these days Phill, can you please tell me what exactly they are learning at school today????
I will tell you,................ disrespect, how to get a girl pregnant and live off the state forevermore, how to have a good night out on a Friday..do you want me to go on??
There is absolutely no hope for this country while we keep making these non -jobs that are to be paid for by borrowing .... I didnt realise at the time but the teachers who beat me were doing it to help me in later life, and they did !!!!
I like what you say....T mentions caring and nurturing.....Wowee. I never saw it! We were taught with an iron fist. An occasional Pointer across the Fingers and a flying Duster from the blackboard.....Yes it worked! Oh and 6 of the Belt for swearing at the Gym Teacher!
We also had some 'characters' in my class.....I don't know how to describe them, but 'different'. No special Ed/ no special classes/ Just get the work done.....
As a punishment..the girls had to hammer nails in things and the boys had to sew, darn and I had quite a long scarf knitted, particularly for smoking!
And then I went away and had to learn 57 Definitions of sometimes 2 pages and be able to recite same! The Modern day people may think that is strange.....BUT we rose to good careers....
And a wee bitty of punishment kept us somewhere near the straight & narrow......
I should have made my views clear....No to Assistants. We did OK without them. The Teacher was in control/ they were tough/one Teacher always carried the belt over his shoulder, under his jacket/ were they tough YES....Good for them/ They made us who we are!
I think it's a good way to make cuts and keep our Council Tax down.. I was taught in a class of 47 pupils and no assistants in those days and the standard of education was better then as well. Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own...
Well done Highland Council!!
C3....[lol]
Totaly agree with this reply.
Teachers have it too easy these days, along with many other professions that are paid for by the tax payer.
Whilst this thread has resulted in an interesting debate about the need for classroom assistants and the changes in education over the years surely the main concern here is the loss of jobs from the county. With the run down of Dounreay is anyone confident that the private sector is going to expand and make up the shortfall as suggested by George Osborne and the CON/LIB coalition. We are already looking at 20 jobs going at the Wick HMRC office and even this week people were laid off at Ness Engineering.
PCS union members in Wick have set up a facebook page suggesting there is an alternative to the governments cuts - http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Wick-Wants-Work/190017934359184
Instead of making people unemployed does it not make sense to grow the economy, ensure the big companies and rich individuals are paying their fair share and invest in jobs.
Perhaps we need to change the name from Wick Wants Work to something more Caithness inclusive as we in Caithness need to be "all in this together" unlike the multi millionaires in the cabinet!
alanatkie
06-Feb-11, 22:12
also a link here to sign a petition to Save our Classroom assistants for those that want to that is - http://www.gopetition.com/petition/42587.html
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 10:37
Whilst this thread has resulted in an interesting debate about the need for classroom assistants and the changes in education over the years surely the main concern here is the loss of jobs from the county. With the run down of Dounreay is anyone confident that the private sector is going to expand and make up the shortfall as suggested by George Osborne and the CON/LIB coalition. We are already looking at 20 jobs going at the Wick HMRC office and even this week people were laid off at Ness Engineering.
PCS union members in Wick have set up a facebook page suggesting there is an alternative to the governments cuts - http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Wick-Wants-Work/190017934359184
Instead of making people unemployed does it not make sense to grow the economy, ensure the big companies and rich individuals are paying their fair share and invest in
jobs.
Perhaps we need to change the name from Wick Wants Work to something more Caithness inclusive as we in Caithness need to be "all in this together" unlike the multi millionaires in the cabinet!
At last, sanity, if only the vast majority could see things this way, the debate should be about the economy of Caithness first and foremost. Outwith the inevitable phased closure of Dounreay the economy is being hit by a drip feed of lost jobs, anyone with any sense can see this is happening. Politicians taking decision to cut jobs / services etc have to do so against this background, hence all decisions must be based on the economy, cuts = lost jobs= decreased local spends=less economic activity : Caithness politicians must as as one lobby to get Caithness, Enterprise Zone status, basically have the area structured to attract inward investment through offering grant packages, making the area attractive to investors. Moray and Caithness are both in bad positions and need this as a starter. Or in basic terms all politicians must publically recognise the state of the local economy and inform the electorate what they intend doing about it a debate that the service cutters are studiously avoiding.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1354424/School-teaches-pupils-classes-SEVENTY--says-pupils-learning-more.html
Is this a sign of what's to come?
At last, sanity, if only the vast majority could see things this way, the debate should be about the economy of Caithness first and foremost. Outwith the inevitable phased closure of Dounreay the economy is being hit by a drip feed of lost jobs, anyone with any sense can see this is happening. Politicians taking decision to cut jobs / services etc have to do so against this background, hence all decisions must be based on the economy, cuts = lost jobs= decreased local spends=less economic activity : Caithness politicians must as as one lobby to get Caithness, Enterprise Zone status, basically have the area structured to attract inward investment through offering grant packages, making the area attractive to investors. Moray and Caithness are both in bad positions and need this as a starter. Or in basic terms all politicians must publically recognise the state of the local economy and inform the electorate what they intend doing about it a debate that the service cutters are studiously avoiding.
We need joined up thinking with all these different departments/businesses closing or being cut-back ,the Wick high school thing and of course the CHaP fiasco .These groups have to come together for support in numbers ,thats the only way to be heard .Its the only way if the media is going to be interested, if the people stand as one and push for what we want ..
orkneycadian
07-Feb-11, 12:11
It was reported on Radio Scotland this morning that a council in Lanarkshire are contemplating moving to a 4 day school week! :roll:
Looking back to my own school years....
School ran till 4 pm 5 days a week. None of this bunking off early on Wednesday....
There were no classroom assistants
Class sizes could be relatively big and mixed - At primary school, it was routinely 3 years in one room.
There was a degree of discipline - we still had the belt in those days and clips round the lug were permissible
In service days were unheard of
The schools didnt close when it was simply frosty or windy
Unlike a day here last week, school transport wasn't cancelled because it was windy the night before (but relatively calm again in the morning!)
"The School Run" was nothing more than folk who lived within walking distance having to leg it because they had slept in!
Everyone could at least read, write and count by the time they left.
Nowadays, employers complain because school leavers can't spell, count or carry out basic tasks, have no discipline yet have a sheaf of "qualifications" that appear to mean nothing, because everyone else has a similar sheaf.
You would think that with all these advances, classroom assistants and the likes, that folk would be leaving school, college and university and getting glowing reports from employers, and being snapped up into employment. Instead, 16-24 age group unemployment is at its highest ever level as employers prefer to take on or keep "old school" employees. If you don't believe it, wait until later in the year when the exam results come out. Theres guaranteed to be a news report on the TV where on the one hand its....
Exam pass rates up yet again to record levels
followed up in the next report with....
Employers say school leavers today lack basic numeracy, literacy and discipline
Back to slate pencils and coal fires in classrooms I say! ;)
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 14:00
It was reported on Radio Scotland this morning that a council in Lanarkshire are contemplating moving to a 4 day school week! :roll:
Looking back to my own school years....
School ran till 4 pm 5 days a week. None of this bunking off early on Wednesday....
There were no classroom assistants
Class sizes could be relatively big and mixed - At primary school, it was routinely 3 years in one room.
There was a degree of discipline - we still had the belt in those days and clips round the lug were permissible
In service days were unheard of
The schools didnt close when it was simply frosty or windy
Unlike a day here last week, school transport wasn't cancelled because it was windy the night before (but relatively calm again in the morning!)
"The School Run" was nothing more than folk who lived within walking distance having to leg it because they had slept in!
Everyone could at least read, write and count by the time they left.
Nowadays, employers complain because school leavers can't spell, count or carry out basic tasks, have no discipline yet have a sheaf of "qualifications" that appear to mean nothing, because everyone else has a similar sheaf.
You would think that with all these advances, classroom assistants and the likes, that folk would be leaving school, college and university and getting glowing reports from employers, and being snapped up into employment. Instead, 16-24 age group unemployment is at its highest ever level as employers prefer to take on or keep "old school" employees. If you don't believe it, wait until later in the year when the exam results come out. Theres guaranteed to be a news report on the TV where on the one hand its....
Exam pass rates up yet again to record levels
followed up in the next report with....
Employers say school leavers today lack basic numeracy, literacy and discipline
Back to slate pencils and coal fires in classrooms I say! ;)
Whats the relevance ? School opening only 4 days means costs savings ( running and staff costs ) why ? What exactly are you trying to say here, Im not to clear about this at all. Also 16 - 24 year old unemployment is caused by a lack of jobs and opportunities..end off !!! Employers go for experienced potential employees, very rarely trainees..so that rules out a lot of 16 - 24 year olds, hence the highest unemployment figures in 30 years ( 16 - 24 year olds ) fact, absolute fact
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 14:10
All this div ye mind stuff ( there wis 60 o us in a single room, looked up and ye got the belt, didna do me any harm, I still learned the good auld 3 r's etc etc ) is a complete irrelevance, where are the jobs that young people can move into as it doesnt really matter one jot what they leave with and how they learnt....where are the jobs in Caithness ??
orkneycadian
07-Feb-11, 14:31
Employers go for experienced potential employees, very rarely trainees..so that rules out a lot of 16 - 24 year olds, hence the highest unemployment figures in 30 years ( 16 - 24 year olds ) fact, absolute fact
And have you considered why, nowadays, employers are doing this?
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 15:02
And have you considered why, nowadays, employers are doing this?
Ok I can try : poor trading conditions, a double dip recession, the upcomming effect of rising vat, severe public sector cuts, very strict bank borrowing regs all have had an effect on consumer demand, employers ( but not all of them ) react to this falling demand by cutting back, hence recuitment dries up. If you are an employer with 2.5 million available unemployed people, at least 2/3 s are over 24, then who do you pick from, the under 24 with limited experience or the over 24 who has experience..Im afraid thats the reality and it has nothing to do with education, after all people between 24 and 35 have came through the same system as todays under 24's.
orkneycadian
07-Feb-11, 15:04
Aha.... So the employers that say they won't employ school leavers because of their lack of numeracy and literacy are just telling porkies then?
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 15:09
Aha.... So the employers that say they won't employ school leavers because of their lack of numeracy and literacy are just telling porkies then?
What employers ? All of them ? I have heard this arguement many many times and it goes back many years. As an employer myself and employing a youngster, I have experienced no problems at all. The point is that we are in a recession with high growing numbers of unemployed and bottom of the heap is reserved for the growing band of inexperienced youngsters, the same thing happened in the early to mid 80's..the lost generation.
orkneycadian
07-Feb-11, 15:15
What employers ? All of them ?
Probably. Heres just one example. Report carried out by the CBI surveying 694 employers representing 1 in 12 of the workforce, and as reported by The Times.
Times article on CBI Survey (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7128366.ece)
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 15:28
A CBI survey of senior executives at 694 companies, which between them employ more than 2.4 million people, or one in 12 of the workforce.
Not that representative is it ? they dont speak for the majority, ie 1 out of 12 in the workforce, not everyone. Even if its "true" whats the point here, a failing educational system by itself, or a combination of failing education system and wider societal failings....its not an easy issue to pinpoint, other than less money isnt going to fix anything...and its a hypothetical argument, I would rather be alarmed if the UK was at full employment and the CBI were claiming that they couldnt get school leavers / graduates with the basic literacy /numercy skills to fill empty jobs...now that isnt the case today is it ?
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 15:29
Employers who are in a minority of being to recruit...look locally...who is recruiting ?
orkneycadian
07-Feb-11, 15:40
A CBI survey of senior executives at 694 companies, which between them employ more than 2.4 million people, or one in 12 of the workforce.
Not that representative is it ? they dont speak for the majority, ie 1 out of 12 in the workforce, not everyone.
Well, its no bad considering this is just a wee forum! Many of the surveys we get bombarded with, exit polls, etc are based on ~1,000 responses from individuals across the country. A survey that covers 2.4 million of the workforce seems, on the face of it, to be relatively comprehensive.
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 15:43
Well, its no bad considering this is just a wee forum! Many of the surveys we get bombarded with, exit polls, etc are based on ~1,000 responses from individuals across the country. A survey that covers 2.4 million of the workforce seems, on the face of it, to be relatively comprehensive.
Fine, but just re read the article please, its doesnt actually say whta you are implying when you read it all the way through
orkneycadian
07-Feb-11, 15:48
Eh? Are we reading the same article?
"School-leavers and even graduates lack basic literacy and numeracy skills, according to a survey of big employers published today."
"More companies are having to provide remedial training to new staff, who cannot write clear instructions, do simple maths, or solve problems."
"Almost two-thirds of employers said that standards of numeracy and literacy should be tackled."
“Employers do not expect schools, colleges and universities to produce ‘job-ready’ young people — they recognise it is their responsibility. But at the very least, young people must enter the labour market literate, numerate and employable.”
I could post more, but will end up posting the whole thing!
rob murray
07-Feb-11, 15:59
Eh? Are we reading the same article?
"School-leavers and even graduates lack basic literacy and numeracy skills, according to a survey of big employers published today."
"More companies are having to provide remedial training to new staff, who cannot write clear instructions, do simple maths, or solve problems."
"Almost two-thirds of employers said that standards of numeracy and literacy should be tackled."
“Employers do not expect schools, colleges and universities to produce ‘job-ready’ young people — they recognise it is their responsibility. But at the very least, young people must enter the labour market literate, numerate and employable.”
I could post more, but will end up posting the whole thing!
Well on you go then, maybe you dont see the inconsistencies, try the last paragraph above for starters..you still havent even addressed the basic issues raised have you nor do I see your point, why dont you you explain it ?
How can you possibly take some one who says "Back to slate pencils and coal fires in classrooms" seriously lol lol lol ....I didnt know you kind of folks were allowed up during day light !
orkneycadian
07-Feb-11, 16:20
How can you possibly take some one who says "Back to slate pencils and coal fires in classrooms" seriously
You don't! Whole point of the ;) smiley! [lol]
Looks like us oldies with large classes maybe right, This headmaster thinks so!! (Pity he needs so many staff though!!)!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-12380839
C3.....:roll:;);)
Looks like us oldies with large classes maybe right, This headmaster thinks so!! (Pity he needs so many staff though!!)!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-12380839
C3.....:roll:;);)
The fact he needs the staff is the point. It is impossible to spend quality time with that many pupils and meet their educational needs. They are setting up target grouping to give each pupil the best chance.
I was at a school meeting tonight with two local councillors, they made parents aware that the decission about classroom assistants is going to be made this thur. Its being fast tracked so we dont have much time to have a say in whats happening. The work that the classroom assisitants do is invaluable with learning, not only that childrens trips, swimming lessons, playtime supervision everything goes. Tomorrow at the school we should be getting a email address to voice our opinions to get something done, i will write it on here after i get it and should be in the local paper wed. At the meeting we voiced that either we could take £10k out of the £60k discretion fund the council gets to pay for classroom assistants, or asked for classroom assistants hours to be slightly reduced. This will have a huge affect on our childrens future, something has to be done before its to late
Just a Question...
Whatever happened to volunteers??
parents work, im a childminder. It is a very important job and im sure children would get very unsettled with loads of dif volenteers coming into there classroom every day. There are over 300 classroom assistants i doubt you will get volunteers to cover them. These people are great at there jobs, they love there job and the kids, the kids love them, this is there jobs which affect home life etc. Messing about with education to cost cut is not right. Also 10% of schools spending on materials for crafts ect is to go and many more things to happen, school closures soon which will mean bigger classes with no classroom assistants
The ironic thing is that these children are the future of the UK. We are choosing to mess about with their education, with the consequence of making inequality even more defined. We are choosing to reduce the quality of the education we are giving them. Once their education is messed up, that's it gone forever.
And then we made choices as a society that has saddled them with a debt that their grandchildren will still be paying for. We have alot to answer for, but still feel we owe the future no apologies. I am so ashamed of the shambles my decendents are going to have to clean up because of our greed (myself included).
Just a mo'.......
Why did we in ther 60's receive an excellent education with No Ed Assistants?
We had excellent Teachers and No Assistants.
Mind you we had many Mothers who stayed at home......
There seems to be people on here involved inthe Business of Teaching....why are things different?
Think you hit the nail on the head there Sandyr1, mothers used to stay at home and nurture their families. They are more interested now in buying a bigger and better telly, car or something and going on ever more exotic holidays. Children DON'T (DON@T) NEED these things, they just need a loving home and a parent/parents who are there for them. That is how their education starts and how they learn manners and respect for others. Now they throw them at a childminder at some ungodly hour of the morning before they are dropped at school with another series of minders for the day and then everyone wonders why there are dysfunctional kids on the go. More good parenting is what is required.
Classroom assistants should stay. Falling standards are NOT the fault of working mothers for gods sake! Governments should stop messing around with the future of young people and INVEST in education. 30 years ago kids left school unable to read and write they just learnt to HIDE it better. Stop fiddling with the curriculum and let teachers teach. Build volunteering and adventure stuff into schools and pay teachers for extra curricular stuff properly. Do NOT return to the cane or the tawse or psychopathic bully boy PE and metalwork teachers. Encourage innovation and excitement in the classroom. Engage with the children and nurture their talents. A good teacher can be a huge influence on a child and can set the tone for the rest of their lives.
Think you hit the nail on the head there Sandyr1, mothers used to stay at home and nurture their families. They are more interested now in buying a bigger and better telly, car or something and going on ever more exotic holidays. Children DON'T (DON@T) NEED these things, they just need a loving home and a parent/parents who are there for them. That is how their education starts and how they learn manners and respect for others. Now they throw them at a childminder at some ungodly hour of the morning before they are dropped at school with another series of minders for the day and then everyone wonders why there are dysfunctional kids on the go. More good parenting is what is required.
Very true Blarney, parenting has gone out of the window in this day and age and its so easy to blame the Govt!!
C3.
rob murray
08-Feb-11, 10:56
The ironic thing is that these children are the future of the UK. We are choosing to mess about with their education, with the consequence of making inequality even more defined. We are choosing to reduce the quality of the education we are giving them. Once their education is messed up, that's it gone forever.
And then we made choices as a society that has saddled them with a debt that their grandchildren will still be paying for. We have alot to answer for, but still feel we owe the future no apologies. I am so ashamed of the shambles my decendents are going to have to clean up because of our greed (myself included).
Well put, it seems that the 60 to a class / bring back the belt brigade dont agree with you, and it would seem that debate on this issue is very polarised, the div ye minders all seem to fall for the "we cant afford it and what good does it do anyway camp"....( Im alright Jack ! ) the other side of the debate focuses on the what is truly needed and a very very few see the key point...retain all Caithness jobs as the area faces an economic bloodbath. Does this represent Caithness as a whole, if it does god help the area
Okay lots to weigh in on here:
Neat handwriting seriously, that's a form over function argument if ever I heard one. Who cares what's said or done as long as it looks good.
There's a fair bit of evidence and studies to suggest that part of the problem with motivation and educational performance in general is a lack of male teachers especially at primary school level and increasingly at high school level. [1] (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8097348/Pupils-work-harder-for-male-teachers.html)
We can't compare our education system to other countries, there's a fair bit of cultural difference. Taking France and Germany as examples: the people I knew at university from those countries were used to attending classes 09:00-17:00, five days a week doing all work in class etc. As a result of this (to me at least) they seemed to lack independence and wanted to be hand held by lecturers.
Another part of the problem is they have incentivised teaching, giving people who study it extra funding etc which in my opinion will attract the wrong type of person. Also teachers learn to teach, that is they study education, instead of learning how to teach a subject. Related to this I have a fair number of horror stories about mine and others experience at primary school and Wick high school (backstabbing, petty teachers, constantly gossiping in the staffroom, giving more attention to the children of prominent or wealthier parents)
There's also a massive disconnect between management your average teacher, this gets progressively worse as you climb the ladder.
Another thing we need to ignore employers at all levels of education or rather not pander to them, if we don't we run the risk of churning automatons.
On the subject of parents I think many of them fob kids off on childminders and nurseries etc. There's a fair bit of evidence to suggest 7 is optimal age for kids to take part in any formal education.
Mister Squiggle
08-Feb-11, 12:10
So far we've had the "it were better in my day, bring back the belt" brigade, the teacher bashers ("they're just in it for the holidays and money, or see above - what in the world does staffroom gossip have to do with teacher assistants losing their jobs?) and the predictable dinosaurs who blame it all on women ("They should be at home looking after the kids WHERE THEY BELONG etc etc etc blah blah blah...)
Actually, this is about a lot of skilled, experienced and dedicated Caithness folk losing their jobs, with very little notice (a decision is to be announced on Thursday, as I understand it). And this at a time when schools are being forced to implement the Curriculum for Excellence which demands individualised, smaller group learning that, with the best will in the world and training from here to eternity, no teacher could run on his/her own, without the help of classroom assistants.
As for the idea that rows of terrified children, learning by rote is a more effective use of resources .. well, sorry but we've moved on from the days of hitting children, either at school or home, to get them to behave, just as we realise that each child is an individual and might need to learn in a different way. Fear and repression teach you nothing except to grow up into a fearful, repressed adult ... oh hang on, that probably explains quite a bit about some of the nonsense on this board.
And as for this idea that our young people are leaving school illiterate and unprepared - well, the young people I work with seem pretty capable of reading, writing and thinking about their world. Kids in Caithness strike me as happy and caring towards the folk around them - you doubt this? Than at least have a look at the last HMi report on Wick High, where the inspectors made special mention of how well mannered and polite the students seemed. And that's a joint achievement, between the parents, the teachers, the classroom assistants and the wider community. Something to be proud of and something we should continue to argue for investment in.
What's the old saying about "It takes a whole village to raise a child"? Well, classroom assistants are part of that village. As are we all.
What I am still waiting for is the proponents of this miraculously great education recieved in the 60s, 70s', 80s' and up to the mid 90s' to explain how it gave us 44% of functional illiterates and inumerates. You are all saying it was wonderful and that you learnt your three "r's". But that is not what the statistics show. Why, in Scotland, if you are my age, there is a 44% chance that you can bearly read what I am writing, nevermind understand it?
So far we've had the "it were better in my day, bring back the belt" brigade, the teacher bashers ("they're just in it for the holidays and money, or see above - what in the world does staffroom gossip have to do with teacher assistants losing their jobs?) and the predictable dinosaurs who blame it all on women ("They should be at home looking after the kids WHERE THEY BELONG etc etc etc blah blah blah...)
Actually, this is about a lot of skilled, experienced and dedicated Caithness folk losing their jobs, with very little notice (a decision is to be announced on Thursday, as I understand it). And this at a time when schools are being forced to implement the Curriculum for Excellence which demands individualised, smaller group learning that, with the best will in the world and training from here to eternity, no teacher could run on his/her own, without the help of classroom assistants.
As for the idea that rows of terrified children, learning by rote is a more effective use of resources .. well, sorry but we've moved on from the days of hitting children, either at school or home, to get them to behave, just as we realise that each child is an individual and might need to learn in a different way. Fear and repression teach you nothing except to grow up into a fearful, repressed adult ... oh hang on, that probably explains quite a bit about some of the nonsense on this board.
And as for this idea that our young people are leaving school illiterate and unprepared - well, the young people I work with seem pretty capable of reading, writing and thinking about their world. Kids in Caithness strike me as happy and caring towards the folk around them - you doubt this? Than at least have a look at the last HMi report on Wick High, where the inspectors made special mention of how well mannered and polite the students seemed. And that's a joint achievement, between the parents, the teachers, the classroom assistants and the wider community. Something to be proud of and something we should continue to argue for investment in.
What's the old saying about "It takes a whole village to raise a child"? Well, classroom assistants are part of that village. As are we all.
To clarify my point about gossiping - and class room assistants do it too and it's not standard gossip it's essentially talking about privileged and private information. I'm not saying everyone does it either - is that it indicates a certain level of unprofessionalism.
That being said I agree with you and others that there's a certain tendency with older people to say that everything was better in their days or this didn't happen in my etc. I find it really annoying on more things that just education.
I also agree that the main point should be the damage to local economy.
lindsaymcc
08-Feb-11, 13:37
also a link here to sign a petition to Save our Classroom assistants for those that want to that is - http://www.gopetition.com/petition/42587.html
Please can those in favour of saving our classroom assistants, please sign this e-petition.
I do believe Miller Academy are trying to get people together for a trip to the council offices on thursday for a peaceful protest. Details on their Facebook page.
So what was wrong with our Schooling 30/40/50 years ago?
I learned as did many/most of the people I know.
An example...Lybster School...Miss Robertson...English. She was not a very nice person at times, and if you look back a few posts there are some examples of what went on, but we learned.
Your comment on Let the Teachers Teach is correct.
And there were no assistants altho' the Class was made up of a 'Diverse' bunch of kids...No Special needs.....Nothing.
I have meet some of the people over the years who were there, and no one was a 'Dunce'. Methinks you have gone too far Nurturing.....
I agree that perhaps extra help is never wasted, but in times of trouble something must give......
What I am still waiting for is the proponents of this miraculously great education recieved in the 60s, 70s', 80s' and up to the mid 90s' to explain how it gave us 44% of functional illiterates and inumerates. You are all saying it was wonderful and that you learnt your three "r's". But that is not what the statistics show. Why, in Scotland, if you are my age, there is a 44% chance that you can bearly read what I am writing, nevermind understand it?
When you provide factual evidence of this ridiculously high figure you may get a response Ju. Anyone can pluck figures out of the air, I know for a fact that all of my class left school able to read and write and did very good maths without calculators, we had to, we had no choice...Unlike the kids of today who are allowed to text each other during lessons and give the teacher cheek if anything is said!!!
Sorry but I know which era I would have wished to have been taught in and its not todays I can tell you!! And for all you non-kid beaters well, it did me no harm at all and certainly did a lot of good!!!
C3.....:roll:;)
Please can those in favour of saving our classroom assistants, please sign this e-petition.
I do believe Miller Academy are trying to get people together for a trip to the council offices on thursday for a peaceful protest. Details on their Facebook page.
Gosh ......what has happened to the World...what other protest could there be in Caithness or am I out of the loop?
Mister Squiggle
08-Feb-11, 14:10
Actually, Corrie 3, I guess I'm one of those "non-kid beaters" I just feel sorry for you, and for anyone else that thinks hitting kids and scaring them into behaving in school is some mark of an excellent, effective education system that "never did me any harm". There's probably a few adults walking around who'd argue it did them a whole bundle of harm.
And as for Sandyr1's point about having "gone too far nurturing"... Really? Is there some kind of applicable limit to encouraging and helping children? Geez, too much kindness, not enough hitting ... I think I'm getting a pretty clear picture of the kind of world these posters are building up, and it's not one I'd want my kids to be learning in.
But back to the original point ... by the end of this week, many good, experienced and enthusiastic people will have lost their jobs, and our classrooms will feel the loss of them.
Actually, Corrie 3, I guess I'm one of those "non-kid beaters" I just feel sorry for you, and for anyone else that thinks hitting kids and scaring them into behaving in school is some mark of an excellent, effective education system that "never did me any harm". There's probably a few adults walking around who'd argue it did them a whole bundle of harm.
And as for Sandyr1's point about having "gone too far nurturing"... Really? Is there some kind of applicable limit to encouraging and helping children? Geez, too much kindness, not enough hitting ... I think I'm getting a pretty clear picture of the kind of world these posters are building up, and it's not one I'd want my kids to be learning in.
But back to the original point ... by the end of this week, many good, experienced and enthusiastic people will have lost their jobs, and our classrooms will feel the loss of them.
I already asked the 'Q'. What is so different nowadays. Small classes, two people teaching/assisting. We had one person, and were punished for being 'bad'.
This is not only a Caithness/ UK problem. This is World Wide.
It got so bad that School was classified as 'child sitting' as the parents were out working.
There are 'cut backs' across the World. We have become too fat in employment/ assistance/ grants/ welfare etc etc.
A day of reckoning is upon us.
This is the normal cycle of events and will take us back to where we should be. The Gov't has to cut back...too much fat!
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/07/22091814/0 (main link to several documents of interest about literacy. Level 1 and 2 literacy are those that are functionally illiterate, that face difficulty in day to day difficulty due to their inability to use written information. Level 3 literacy also shaky)
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/07/22091814/4 (here you can see level 1 and 2 literacy levels compared in several ways such as age, sex, ed. Level, etc)
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Education/Life-Long-Learning/17551 (identifies close 1/4of adults with inadequate levels of literacy in 2009- 26.7% (functional illiterates) of which 3.6% (very low skills). That 3.6% is one in 28 people, or if you like, one in every class of 28 pupils, that got through "good old fashioned school" without learning to read or write. the 26.7% were those students who were struggling and did not learn enough to do more then scrape by in life.) quote from link:
The survey found that:
73.3% of the Scottish working age population have a level of literacies that is recognised internationally as appropriate for a contemporary society;
around one-quarter of the Scottish population (26.7%) may face occasional challenges and constrained opportunities due to their literacies difficulties, but will generally cope with their day-to-day lives; and
within this quarter of the population, 3.6% (one person in 28) face serious challenges in their literacies practices.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2008/06/27093500/8 (results of being functionally illiterate. You need to figure out some of your own percentage rates as some results are given as a ratio. Men do worse than women.)
http://www.nationalliteracytrust.net/Database/stats/adultstats.html ( go to Scotland stats: 23% low skills+ 800.000 very low skills ( around 5 million scots in total means just over 15% very low skills)+ 30% inadequate skills. Even excluding this last group of 30% you still have over 38% with very low to low literacy skills) Quote from this weblink:
Data from the International Adult Literacy Survey suggests that around 800,000 adults in Scotland have very low levels of literacy and numeracy. Around 23% may have low skills and a further 30% may find their skills inadequate to meet the demands of the "knowledge society" and the "information age".
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/216990/0058169.pdf (2008- the ages groups we are talking about in 2008 are still here in 2011) quote from page 2:
39% of men and 36% of women in the survey had literacy abilities at a level likely to impact
on their employment opportunities and life chances. In the case of numeracy, this is even
more widespread with 65% of men and 77% of women experiencing difficulties.
I promise you when I have the time, I will look for the recent ( 2010) article I found that had the exact 44% average for functional illiteracy and innumeracy in Scotland. It was on BBC website. But is you look at the graphs and links above they reflect this number.
These are statistics and not personal experience. If you would like to use your personal experience as an example of the good quality of education that you recieved in a local primary school, I know a few people who were in school in the 60s' and 70s' whose experience proves the opposite.
What I am still waiting for is the proponents of this miraculously great education recieved in the 60s, 70s', 80s' and up to the mid 90s' to explain how it gave us 44% of functional illiterates and inumerates. You are all saying it was wonderful and that you learnt your three "r's". But that is not what the statistics show. Why, in Scotland, if you are my age, there is a 44% chance that you can bearly read what I am writing, nevermind understand it?
We did learn the R's.....I just look at my School years and there were only a couple of 'special ed' students who had trouble...
I am talking 50/60's.
And mr Squidge.....I am not a 'teacher basher' and don't advocate the belt.....'Twas the way it was...good or bad it worked for me, and lots of people I know.
reply to Blarney......
Im a childminder and i look after kids like they are my family, they have other kids to play with and have fun activities to do just like at nursery. There is nothing wrong with this, parents have to work or else we would complain about them sitting with kids claiming benefit/dole money. Everything costs money to keep a house and family. Nobody throws there kid at me but visit and make sure im suitable to be looking after there child/ren. Classroom assistants help children who are struggling, we dont want these children to leave school and sit on benefits because they cant get a job due to poor education. This shouldnt be happening. As i said this affects everything including swimming lessons, school trips, playground supervisin. Every child will suffer
reply to Blarney......
Im a childminder and i look after kids like they are my family, they have other kids to play with and have fun activities to do just like at nursery. There is nothing wrong with this, parents have to work or else we would complain about them sitting with kids claiming benefit/dole money. Everything costs money to keep a house and family. Nobody throws there kid at me but visit and make sure im suitable to be looking after there child/ren. Classroom assistants help children who are struggling, we dont want these children to leave school and sit on benefits because they cant get a job due to poor education. This shouldnt be happening. As i said this affects everything including swimming lessons, school trips, playground supervisin. Every child will suffer
A Q? Why would they be claiming the above? Could they just do what has been done for years.......what has changed?
School trips etc., were monitered by Volunteers...the parents who were available and who were at home!
I am not saying that there will be a lot of happiness over the cuts....But the cuts will go through, just like they did here and in Nigeria and across the World.
Mister Squiggle
08-Feb-11, 15:21
Agreed, that was exactly the "way it was". But it's not the way it is now, nor should we return to that and we should fight against any diminuition of educational services for our kids. And I suspect there was nothing "wrong" with the way education was the 50's 60's etc etc, except that our awareness of how children think and feel, and how they learn, now means we can adapt the classroom environment to help the terrified, the reluctant, the dyslexic and the child with special needs. Classroom assistants form an integral part of that.
I've spoken with adult dyslexics who came through the education system decades ago, and who would attest to the fact they were good at hiding their problem, not drawing attention to themselves and remaining "invisible" in a massive classroom with a cane-wielding teacher at the front who could not possibly learn enough about each individual child to really help them - what a difference more individual teaching, with assistants, would have made to their lives! The sad thing is that for many adults I have worked with, that support was not there and so they feel it is too late - I'm extremely concerned that by taking away classroom assistants and heaping yet more work upon teachers, we'll be creating another generation of children who fall through the gaps.
Anyway, we could argue all year about whether things were better then or now - its a matter of personal experience and (dare I say it) a degree of nostalgia. My basic concern is that without classroom assistants, the current education system will simply not work. And its nothing to do with the quality of the teachers or the absence of the cane, dreadful working mothers or the other myriad reasons trotted out here, but because (a) we all (hopefully) treat children as individuals with individual needs and expectations and identities, and (b) we have a Curriculum for Excellence which demands a style of learning and teaching that is individualised and small-group orientated. Whilst many teachers view it with concern, it is the curriculum they have been landed with and must make the best of. Simultaneous to this, the HC wants to abolish classroom assistant posts, posts which form an essential part of the delivery of the CfE. It's going to be extremely difficult to deliver this without them.
Kind of off topic again, but regarding how to raise children, seems many on here advocate the Chinese approach to it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12389573 - Video interview with a shrew of woman advocating this and trying to shill a book.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html - Her original essay on the subject.
http://bettymingliu.com/2011/01/parents-like-amy-chua-are-the-reason-why-asian-americans-like-me-are-in-therapy/ - Rebuttal from a child raised by such a parent.
A Q? Why would they be claiming the above? Could they just do what has been done for years.......what has changed?
School trips etc., were monitered by Volunteers...the parents who were available and who were at home!
I am not saying that there will be a lot of happiness over the cuts....But the cuts will go through, just like they did here and in Nigeria and across the World.
some bigger trips away etc will need volunteers but thats only talking about a few days of the year. The classroom assistants are helping children with learning on a daily basis. Some children struggle and its not fair if they have no help. classroom assistants do a great job
i have been reading this post with great interest, and have been trying very hard not to post as i do not want to get into a slagging match on what is wrong or right.
however i do want to make some points known, as a parent with two young boys. both of whom have special needs and or development issues.
1: corporal punishment: how do i feel about it? i would prob. hit the roof once i found out someone had hit my child.
i am the parent punishment is up to me and no one else. Do i punish my children? Yes! do i smack them.. it has been known to happen but not a .. everything you do deserves a smack kind.
they are few and far between but its my job and no ones else's.
does it help to smack children?
sometimes depending on the situation. usually just the threat works best.
look at Ben, he is 6 years old and autistic. He is very destructive and can easily break things.. does he do it on purpose? no.. he just has no idea of boundaries.
he also, has a hard time understanding things like, when to sit quietly, not to run, not to scream and sometimes even going to the toilet is an issue..
does he get punished for these things? not usually.. unless i know beyond a doubt that he has done something with intent to being naughty. (btw that does not happen often)
do i correct his behavior? YES!! every waking moment of every day.. would spanking help correct that behavior? NO WAY! its akin to kicking a dog and then expecting it to know that you kicked it because it dug up your flowers yesterday.. they have no clue why your hurting them.. just that you are.
2: additional needs that do not meet criteria for getting help:
this is where Sam falls in.. he is very sociable. but he struggles at school. He did not start speaking until he was 4 years old. His language development is way behind.
hes on the list for speech therapy.. but there are so many children needing it.. and so few therapists.. well you get the idea..
he was failing in spelling.. missing 12/12 and getting so confused and so embarrassed! simple words like The.. would go something like.. Thaekshsabshe when he went to write it down.
however with the class room assistant sitting with him, and helping him through the spelling he is able to click.. and get his words right and not so muddled. he is now getting 12/12 right.
he can not concentrate in class.. and quite often the Classroom Assistant will give him a hand to get his focus back onto what he is doing and he can get his work done.
is this his fault? is he just being lazy? i have worked with him at home.. and he just goes blank.. he is hearing what you are saying.. its just not being taken on board.
this all goes back to his speech.. its delayed and a child can not progress onto things until he understands language and speech.
he gets on really well in main stream but does need a lot of help to be able to buckle down.
3: moms should stay at home.. it would be so much better ect..:
well i am a stay at home mum. i do loads with my kids. in the past couple weeks at home.. we have made volcano's, I now have a salt crystal experiment that is taking over my back window.. as it eats the pencil it is attached to.. (im not allowed to get rid of it.. its and on going experiment!) we have done lots of research into the Eurasian Eagle owl.. they are learning about owls at school.. we do baking and Ben often helps me make tea..
this is on top of swimming on Tues. for Sam/ piano on wed. for Ben, dancing on wed. night for Sam, swimming on Thursday afternoon for Ben, Thursday club on Thursday night for both of them. horse riding on sat. for sam and church on sunday.. BTW.. im with them for everything bar thursday club.
on top of that.. i still have to do all my own work.. cooking cleaning shopping.. i take quilting on a Tues. morning.. which i skipped the last two weeks due to ill people in the house and today.. just catching up.
honestly i had more free time when i was working!
all in all.. i think that the class room assistants do a great job.. giving children who need that little extra bit of help.. the one to one that they would not be getting with only the teacher.
then there is the whole play ground assistant thing.. i will not go there.. as it is a nightmare to begin with..
they are very very valuable members of our community.. and personally.. just as a mum.. i do think we need them..
rob murray
08-Feb-11, 15:28
When you provide factual evidence of this ridiculously high figure you may get a response Ju. Anyone can pluck figures out of the air, I know for a fact that all of my class left school able to read and write and did very good maths without calculators, we had to, we had no choice...Unlike the kids of today who are allowed to text each other during lessons and give the teacher cheek if anything is said!!!
Sorry but I know which era I would have wished to have been taught in and its not todays I can tell you!! And for all you non-kid beaters well, it did me no harm at all and certainly did a lot of good!!!
C3.....:roll:;)
"Did very good maths without calculators"....kinda blows your cool here eh anyone can spout unsubstantiated nonsense....ye may as well say "Yer faither borrowed a pair of tackety boots so as to walk to Week to vote for ae good auld tories" lol lol lol Maybe yer on to something though, ban schools from buying calculators...and computers...books...toilet paper...switch heating off, lower leaving age to 14....bring back the birch etc etc etc leads to economies and savings !
To. Mr Squiggle specifically. Gosh I don't want to agree with everyone....such a travesty!
I agree with what you say...................As you say, it was the way it was. We knew nothing else. Did it work for me....An outstanding Yes!
The only thing constant in life is 'Change'!
Sorry...I got your name wrong.
"Did very good maths without calculators"....kinda blows your cool here eh anyone can spout unsubstantiated nonsense....ye may as well say "Yer faither borrowed a pair of tackety boots so as to walk to Week to vote for ae good auld tories" lol lol lol Maybe yer on to something though, ban schools from buying calculators...and computers...books...toilet paper...switch heating off, lower leaving age to 14....bring back the birch etc etc etc leads to economies and savings !
Am trying to figure out what you are saying.....Perhaps sarcasm....'wit, but of the lowest form'!
Pray tell us.....
rob murray
08-Feb-11, 15:50
Am trying to figure out what you are saying.....Perhaps sarcasm....'wit, but of the lowest form'!
Pray tell us.....
Just answering a nonsense posting with further nonsense, come on "all of my class did very good maths without a calculator"...indeed !!! Ach, maybe Ive got it all wrong eh, the generation born before 1956 were gifted with extraordinary intelligence, werent they, as it would seem so by the majority of the good ole days postings on here eh...nah not sarcasm, more pity if truth be told, pitying the mind sets !
Just answering a nonsense posting with further nonsense, come on "all of my class did very good maths without a calculator"...indeed !!! Ach, maybe Ive got it all wrong eh, the generation born before 1956 were gifted with extraordinary intelligence, werent they, as it would seem so by the majority of the good ole days postings on here eh...nah not sarcasm, more pity if truth be told, pitying the mind sets !
Mind you....a few of us did OK, even 'suffering' Lybster & Week High! They say Discipline gives one 'character'!
I don't wish to demean the problem.....The more help in School the better. And the loss of paid jobs is bad.....
Was just reading about a Senior Official of an Eastern Country who gets huge Aid from the West, being caught with $42 Million which was being taken out of the Country to a safe haven...Guess what..They let him through! That was our money.....and there are thousands of stories like that of 'our' money being abused. So we are I guess 'reaping what we sow'! The Gov'ts are so liberal with our money that it is sad....Here you are, like many of us, losing jobs and school assistants and the Fat get Fatter and corruption reigns....
In the early 90's in Canada, the Gov't gave us a choice....forgo wage increases and take unpaid days off or people would lose their jobs. We took the cuts which not only gave us less for approx 6 years, but there were no promotions or advancements. It's just the way of the World...And who votes the Gov'ts in....US.
rob murray
08-Feb-11, 16:12
Mind you....a few of us did OK, even 'suffering' Lybster & Week High! They say Discipline gives one 'character'!
No doubt Sandy, as you say a few of you did ok, just like my generation...note...not all did !!
No doubt Sandy, as you say a few of you did ok, just like my generation...note...not all did !!
Hiya....Just added a bit more.....Yes you are correct!
rob murray
08-Feb-11, 16:33
Mind you....a few of us did OK, even 'suffering' Lybster & Week High! They say Discipline gives one 'character'!
I don't wish to demean the problem.....The more help in School the better. And the loss of paid jobs is bad.....
Was just reading about a Senior Official of an Eastern Country who gets huge Aid from the West, being caught with $42 Million which was being taken out of the Country to a safe haven...Guess what..They let him through! That was our money.....and there are thousands of stories like that of 'our' money being abused. So we are I guess 'reaping what we sow'! The Gov'ts are so liberal with our money that it is sad....Here you are, like many of us, losing jobs and school assistants and the Fat get Fatter and corruption reigns....
In the early 90's in Canada, the Gov't gave us a choice....forgo wage increases and take unpaid days off or people would lose their jobs. We took the cuts which not only gave us less for approx 6 years, but there were no promotions or advancements. It's just the way of the World...And who votes the Gov'ts in....US.
Spot on Sandy, there is someting far wrong when ordinary people doing good work are axed through no fault of their own soley because council budgets are being slashed...we are not all in this together...the fat are getting fatter, the rich richer, I feel that its changed days, we have a large public sector in the UK, and in some areas a larger pro rata presence than others simply because of a lack of private sector / enterprise. In these areas ie Caithness, people are going to find it incredibly difficult to get work, meanwhile planned fuel hikes will force the overall cost of living up and with rising vat force consumption down. This is not rocket science nor is it economics, the cuts in the public sector are ideologically driven, there is no economic rationale behind this thinking as its been disproved many times in the past. The conservatives have a pathalogical hatred of public sector services, what is the Big Society, nothing more than voluntarism, dont pay for services but encourage volunteers. This country has a long established and proud history of volunteering, all these crooks are doing is selling us what we do any way. ex Public sector workers in certain areas of this country ( ie anywhere outwith Greater London ) are going to struggle to get work ! Its changed days, because I feel public dissent rising and people can see right through this game.
Mister Squiggle
08-Feb-11, 16:56
[QUOTE=sandyr1;817532]To. Mr Squiggle specifically. Gosh I don't want to agree with everyone....such a travesty!
I'm not asking you to agree, Sandyr1, just pointing out that by turning this thread into a "it was so much better in the old days" ramble down memory lane, or a lip-smacking sound-off at teachers (to quote one of the early posts: "Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own... Well done Highland Council!!"), threatens to take away focus from the sad fact that some excellent, experienced folk are (and I seem to be repeating myself here) going to lose their jobs and our childrens' education will suffer for it.
I don't think the fact that you, or people of your generation, had a fantastic time at school, or think that today's youth are all semi-literate, or that women should stay in the home, or that teachers are lazy ad anon, is going to bring much comfort to classroom assistants this week when the axe falls, nor will it help deliver a complicated curriculum. It will be a massive step backwards for education, we'll be saying goodbye to lots of very dedicated people, children will miss out and that, I think, is the real travesty.
rob murray
08-Feb-11, 16:57
[QUOTE=sandyr1;817532]To. Mr Squiggle specifically. Gosh I don't want to agree with everyone....such a travesty!
I'm not asking you to agree, Sandyr1, just pointing out that by turning this thread into a "it was so much better in the old days" ramble down memory lane, or a lip-smacking sound-off at teachers (to quote one of the early posts: "Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own... Well done Highland Council!!"), threatens to take away focus from the sad fact that some excellent, experienced folk are (and I seem to be repeating myself here) going to lose their jobs and our childrens' education will suffer for it.
I don't think the fact that you, or people of your generation, had a fantastic time at school, or think that today's youth are all semi-literate, or that women should stay in the home, or that teachers are lazy ad anon, is going to bring much comfort to classroom assistants this week when the axe falls, nor will it help deliver a complicated curriculum. It will be a massive step backwards for education, we'll be saying goodbye to lots of very dedicated people, children will miss out and that, I think, is the real travesty.
Dealing with reality....here here, well said !
[QUOTE=sandyr1;817532]To. Mr Squiggle specifically. Gosh I don't want to agree with everyone....such a travesty!
I'm not asking you to agree, Sandyr1, just pointing out that by turning this thread into a "it was so much better in the old days" ramble down memory lane, or a lip-smacking sound-off at teachers (to quote one of the early posts: "Teachers get a very good wage and loads of holidays so let them now earn that wage and run classes on their own... Well done Highland Council!!"), threatens to take away focus from the sad fact that some excellent, experienced folk are (and I seem to be repeating myself here) going to lose their jobs and our childrens' education will suffer for it.
I don't think the fact that you, or people of your generation, had a fantastic time at school, or think that today's youth are all semi-literate, or that women should stay in the home, or that teachers are lazy ad anon, is going to bring much comfort to classroom assistants this week when the axe falls, nor will it help deliver a complicated curriculum. It will be a massive step backwards for education, we'll be saying goodbye to lots of very dedicated people, children will miss out and that, I think, is the real travesty.
Cheese Whiz...Please read what I said..... I never said anything bad about Teachers....I have the greatest admiration for them!
Memory Lane....All I was doing was trying to say that we were not all illerate in the 60's! And that what was taught, was taught the way it was. I didn't find it bad! Did we have a fantastic time at School......Not really, but we survived the way it was.
And where did I say that today's youth were semi literate?
And that women should stay at home?
Yes..... perhaps we are returning to a leaner Society..This occurred here in the early 90's and again now!
I just hope you are not a Teacher/ your interpretation skills are somewhat askew!
In a previous post I said...'It was sad that the schools are losing the extra help, and that it is bad that people are losing their jobs!
Mr Squiggle........
I see you have edited my post in your reply........kinda sad!
Mister Squiggle
08-Feb-11, 17:48
Sandyr1, I'm not sure how we got to this stage, but I actually have no idea about editing your post etc etc... Anyway, as I said earlier, I'm not in the least bit worried about you agreeing/not agreeing, and many of the issues I'm referring to were mentioned in posts that weren't made by you anyway. No, you haven't slated teachers and yes, I can see you agree that it is sad that that people are losing their jobs. I think we can agree on that?
However, before this descends any further into a mindless cyber-rant, can I re-state that my main concern is how removing around 350 classroom assistants from their posts is going to affect the education of our children, and why on earth the Highland Council think it makes sense to axe the posts of so many well trained people at a time when the CfE is being rolled out across schools. And that teachers, ca's, parents and the wider community all need to support their children to ensure they get the best education possible.
I don't think any bickering between you and I is going to make those people feel any better, so let's call a truce, eh?
BTW, the Highland Council website for their meeting on Thursday has the various "cost savings" documents in PDF form down the margin - it makes for some sobering reading.
There is nothing wrong with the education that those at school in the middle of the 20th century. It equipped people for the world as it was then. The reason why we can't go back to those days is because we need children equipped for today. I don't really understand why people think that extra support and additional assistance in the classroom is a BAD idea!!!!! Surely we want our children to have the best education possible and the "I just had to get on with it and that was that" attitude is not what we want for our children.
See when I was 10 In 1974 The teacher I had did not like me. I still have no idea why not I was usually quite well liked and up til then had been top of the class in everything. In fact it was either myself or my best friend Molly who came 1st in every test. Just before the October holidays she gave me a row for talking and stood me at a chest height cupboard behind her desk. She made me stand there every day, all day for the rest of the year. That's right. Until July the following year. If we had a classroom assistant I may have had someone to stand up for me. I was too scared to tell my mum cos I was a good girl and not supposed to be in trouble at school. I would have been in trouble at home. It was the most miserable year of my school life. I was lonely,often made fun of by the teacher. And not only in the class but in PE " here is the way NOT to jump over a vaulting horse. Let's all watch squidge". She would torment me with "shall we let you sit with your friends today? Yes? No?" she never did. Fortunately I had lots of friends and was bright enough to learn anyway. She was a cow. A classroom assistant would have given me a different adult to turn to and might have been able to support means make life more bearable.
Today we don't humiliate and belittle children and try to break their will as a matter of course, thank god. More emphasis on education is needed... Not less.
"Did very good maths without calculators"....kinda blows your cool here eh anyone can spout unsubstantiated nonsense....ye may as well say "Yer faither borrowed a pair of tackety boots so as to walk to Week to vote for ae good auld tories" lol lol lol Maybe yer on to something though, ban schools from buying calculators...and computers...books...toilet paper...switch heating off, lower leaving age to 14....bring back the birch etc etc etc leads to economies and savings !
I dislike the 'kids now use calculators therefore they are stupid or less than me' argument too. It's reductionism at its worst, sure I think someone should be able to do basic calculations in their head or using paper but at some point it becomes stupid, that applies to all engineering and science related subjects. I mean you could probably steer a car with your feet, that doesn't make it a good idea.
Calculators are fundamentally computers and they're designed for number crunching, you don't consider someone less of a workman because he uses power tools.
Yes, I spent three years learning mechanical math in secondary school as they forgot to teach it in Primary. Only to find I could buy a machine for £2.99 that would do it all for me. What a waste of time that was :mad:
Incidentally the best mental arithmetic peeps on the planet are......Darts Players :eek:
[SIZE=2]Incidentally the best mental arithmetic peeps on the planet are......Darts Players
Sorry ducati, I can't agree. Darts players can SUBTRACT like the best computer in the world but they can't ADD for toffee ;)
I got on of them sientifik kalculatos loads ov butons and stuff all over it it doos tangents an pies dunno why kalculatos need pies tho sum butons hav sguigly things on dunno wot tha do iver is bin playin wiv it fer ages now but it doosent work i fink it must be sum dodgy hongkong rubbish
Sorry ducati, I can't agree. Darts players can SUBTRACT like the best computer in the world but they can't ADD for toffee ;)
You haven't seen me play darts :eek:
Sorry ducati, I can't agree. Darts players can SUBTRACT like the best computer in the world but they can't ADD for toffee ;)
Sorry to disagree Scorrie but they have to add the three dart score first before subtracting from the total surely? Having watched them on the telly they can't half count as they are throwing!
Aaldtimer
09-Feb-11, 04:45
You could say that the best dart players are the best at mental Arithmetic! Chicken and egg and all that...:confused
orkneycadian
09-Feb-11, 11:03
Do NOT return to the cane or the tawse or psychopathic bully boy PE and metalwork teachers.
Ah yes. The preludes to the following issues....
No discipline, either in or outside the classroom
Rocketing (or should I say ballooning? [lol]) obesity, patricularly in children
UK engineering grinding to a halt through lack on young people choosing it as a career
The first 2 are well documented. But outside engineering circles, the latter is perhaps not so well known. As always, Google reveals a wealth of information, but here (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/cbi-sounds-alarm-at-lack-of-engineering-graduates-829926.html) is just one of the many high level articles on the matter. This is an issue that pre-dates credit crunches, recessions, global crises, whatever you want to call them, and means that UK engineering companies not only struggle with recruitment through having difficulty with semi literate school leavers, but also ones who consider engineering as a "dirty" trade. Accordingly, the whole engineering sector suffers.
So as squidge suggests, quashing discipline, physical activity and engineering at an early stage in school is doing nothing for the young folk leaving schools, colleges and universities.
So as squidge suggests, quashing discipline, physical activity and engineering at an early stage in school is doing nothing for the young folk leaving schools, colleges and universities.
Tut tut that is not what I was advocating and I am sure you are aware of that. I referred to not returning to bully boy tactics. THAT is the issue. The demeaning and humiliation I saw during my school years, the bullying of pupils by said teachers was particularly evident in the subjects I mentioned. In addition it's worth recalling that the teachers who often commanded the most respect and held the class in the palm of their hand was frequently the one who didn't use the strap at any available opportunity. The others might scare kids into submission but how do you learn if you are scared?
As an example, I once saw a PE teacher make a laddie do PE in a gym skirt for forgetting his kit. Not a big deal you would think except there were two laddies forgot their kit that day. Billy was on the football team and cocky and likeable. Carl was what we would now describe as
special needs pupil and indeed left at the end of our first year and went to a special school. Carl was given the skirt and the PE teacher just took the mickey out of him the whole lesson. We were doing circuit training and even at 12 I was appalled. Contrast that with my boy, due to a timetable clash he has taken PE to standard grade despite not
being great at sport. His teacher is supportive and encouraging and although at the start of the course he thought My boy would maybe scrape a general grade 4, in his prelim he just got a grade 1 and despite still not being fantastic he has massively improved and still
enjoys the sports. And not a humiliation or strap in sight. What a testimony to that teacher.
I saw a boy lifted off his feet by a metalwork teacher who had his hand around one boys throat. I watched a maths teacher strap a boy three
times and because he stood there without flinching and took it he got another 6 straps. A junior school teacher wh punished 8 year old boys with a gym shoe. A PE teacher who stood my friend up in front of 60 boys and girls and embarrassed and humiliated her for bringing a note to excuse her from swimming because she had her period. She was 13 and still shivers at the memory today.
I never said and don't advocate an end to discipline, PE or metalwork, thank goodness for metalwork, my eldest boy is a welder( just out of his time and I'm so proud of him:)) but the bullyboy tactics employed at that time and before must not be allowed to return. There is no place for behaviour as I described.
I think there is no doubt about it classroom assistants are very valuble for many different reasons.
I had an awful cooking teacher (a lot of people in caithness did) and she would not have got away with half the bullying and humiliation she did had classroom assistant been present. I would like to think you dont get teachers like this nowadays but if you were to take eyes and ears away as well as increasing teachers workload by gving them larger classes you never know.
Ah yes. The preludes to the following issues....
No discipline, either in or outside the classroom
Rocketing (or should I say ballooning? [lol]) obesity, patricularly in children
UK engineering grinding to a halt through lack on young people choosing it as a career
The first 2 are well documented. But outside engineering circles, the latter is perhaps not so well known. As always, Google reveals a wealth of information, but here (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/cbi-sounds-alarm-at-lack-of-engineering-graduates-829926.html) is just one of the many high level articles on the matter. This is an issue that pre-dates credit crunches, recessions, global crises, whatever you want to call them, and means that UK engineering companies not only struggle with recruitment through having difficulty with semi literate school leavers, but also ones who consider engineering as a "dirty" trade. Accordingly, the whole engineering sector suffers.
So as squidge suggests, quashing discipline, physical activity and engineering at an early stage in school is doing nothing for the young folk leaving schools, colleges and universities.
I accept your point, but part of me thinks some of that is just propaganda the CBI can use to justify dodgy tactics. Then again I'm in IT which is part science, engineering and art so I can't really say for sure.
rob murray
09-Feb-11, 14:40
Ah yes. The preludes to the following issues....
No discipline, either in or outside the classroom
Rocketing (or should I say ballooning? [lol]) obesity, patricularly in children
UK engineering grinding to a halt through lack on young people choosing it as a career
The first 2 are well documented. But outside engineering circles, the latter is perhaps not so well known. As always, Google reveals a wealth of information, but here (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/cbi-sounds-alarm-at-lack-of-engineering-graduates-829926.html) is just one of the many high level articles on the matter. This is an issue that pre-dates credit crunches, recessions, global crises, whatever you want to call them, and means that UK engineering companies not only struggle with recruitment through having difficulty with semi literate school leavers, but also ones who consider engineering as a "dirty" trade. Accordingly, the whole engineering sector suffers.
So as squidge suggests, quashing discipline, physical activity and engineering at an early stage in school is doing nothing for the young folk leaving schools, colleges and universities.
You keep banging on about semi literate school leavers dont you ? So engineering suffers because of related difficulties and also through negative perception, presumably from literate school leavers..so there are some eh ! Totally agree that UK engineering is suffering from an aging work force, a demographic time bomb....
Hmmn Wonder if the awful home economics teacher was at thurso high?
If so I got her in 1st and 2nd year...I did photocopying in the office for my classes I was supposed to have with her and got an A for the class and a glowing report...but I couldnt step foot in her classroom without getting sent to the office:eek:
Oh I wasnt bad...I just couldnt tie my pinny right/wrong type of pinny/cracked an egg the wrong way/washed up before whatever was out the mixing bowl etc...
Still seperate the yolk from the white through my fingers rather than fiddling around with the shell...so didnt learn anything!
rob murray
09-Feb-11, 17:46
The Good Old Days : Wick High 1968 74 :
Imagine a bunch of kids aged 11 - 12, just up from primary school, woodwork..really looking forward to it...day 1 a 16 stone man lays the ground rules down...any boy who planes below a pencil line gets the belt, any boy who saws below a pencil line gets the belt, any boy who...you get the picture...there were 10 instances of instant belting ( 3 per hand ) did we enjoy going to woodwork or were we terrified and in some cases physically sick at the thought of it ? A chemistry teacher who had a stick called ginger cos it had a sting, liberally whacking everyone in sight..did we enjoy chemistry ? a history teacher who grabbed a handful of rules and smashed them on kids hands...did we enjoy history ? A drunken RE teacher forcing a kids fingers into an electric wall socket....a tech drawing teacher pulling hair out our heads cos we couldnt draw a "hair line"....yep the good old days eh ??
The Good Old Days : Wick High 1968 74 :
Imagine a bunch of kids aged 11 - 12, just up from primary school, woodwork..really looking forward to it...day 1 a 16 stone man lays the ground rules down...any boy who planes below a pencil line gets the belt, any boy who saws below a pencil line gets the belt, any boy who...you get the picture...there were 10 instances of instant belting ( 3 per hand ) did we enjoy going to woodwork or were we terrified and in some cases physically sick at the thought of it ? A chemistry teacher who had a stick called ginger cos it had a sting, liberally whacking everyone in sight..did we enjoy chemistry ? a history teacher who grabbed a handful of rules and smashed them on kids hands...did we enjoy history ? A drunken RE teacher forcing a kids fingers into an electric wall socket....a tech drawing teacher pulling hair out our heads cos we couldnt draw a "hair line"....yep the good old days eh ??
Was at Wick High in the early 60's. Never saw any of that...Yes I got thrown off the school bus for smoking X 2., and I deserved it!
The Good Old Days : Wick High 1968 74 :
Imagine a bunch of kids aged 11 - 12, just up from primary school, woodwork..really looking forward to it...day 1 a 16 stone man lays the ground rules down...any boy who planes below a pencil line gets the belt, any boy who saws below a pencil line gets the belt, any boy who...you get the picture...there were 10 instances of instant belting ( 3 per hand ) did we enjoy going to woodwork or were we terrified and in some cases physically sick at the thought of it ? A chemistry teacher who had a stick called ginger cos it had a sting, liberally whacking everyone in sight..did we enjoy chemistry ? a history teacher who grabbed a handful of rules and smashed them on kids hands...did we enjoy history ? A drunken RE teacher forcing a kids fingers into an electric wall socket....a tech drawing teacher pulling hair out our heads cos we couldnt draw a "hair line"....yep the good old days eh ??
Blimey, I thought my Manchester education was er... special. Seems like, if ever we get organised we could lock up an entire generation of teachers for child abuse.
The Good Old Days : Wick High 1968 74 :
Imagine a bunch of kids aged 11 - 12, just up from primary school, woodwork..really looking forward to it...day 1 a 16 stone man lays the ground rules down...any boy who planes below a pencil line gets the belt, any boy who saws below a pencil line gets the belt, any boy who...you get the picture...there were 10 instances of instant belting ( 3 per hand ) did we enjoy going to woodwork or were we terrified and in some cases physically sick at the thought of it ? A chemistry teacher who had a stick called ginger cos it had a sting, liberally whacking everyone in sight..did we enjoy chemistry ? a history teacher who grabbed a handful of rules and smashed them on kids hands...did we enjoy history ? A drunken RE teacher forcing a kids fingers into an electric wall socket....a tech drawing teacher pulling hair out our heads cos we couldnt draw a "hair line"....yep the good old days eh ??
Seems to have done you no harm Rob, you seem like a very intelligent and caring Man to me. It's so different these days of course, its now the Teachers who are terrified and physically sick at the thought of another day at school. 16 stone Teacher tells Willy to stop texting during lessons, Willy takes exception to this and headbuts Teacher, Teacher tries to defend himself and whole class clubs together to say it was Teacher who asaulted Willy for no reason. Willy tells Parents who go down to school and puts Teacher in hospital, Teacher loses job and gets 6 months in prison. Willy leaves school at 16 thinking he is the big shot but has no education at all and spends rest of his life on benefits. He meets a female in similar circumstances, they have one child every year for 9 years and live a life of luxury at others expense !!!
Yep, Teaching today, you can keep it !!!!
C3....:eek::roll:;)
Hmmn Wonder if the awful home economics teacher was at thurso high?
If so I got her in 1st and 2nd year...I did photocopying in the office for my classes I was supposed to have with her and got an A for the class and a glowing report...but I couldnt step foot in her classroom without getting sent to the office:eek:
Oh I wasnt bad...I just couldnt tie my pinny right/wrong type of pinny/cracked an egg the wrong way/washed up before whatever was out the mixing bowl etc...
Still seperate the yolk from the white through my fingers rather than fiddling around with the shell...so didnt learn anything!
Dadie, our tormentor was the same by the sounds of it. It eased of for me after my mum went to see her. I'm not a bad cook now but then I was such a nervous wreck because of her I managed to do everything wrong, infact I remember putting salt in a biscuit mixture instead of sugar. Why would anyone be soooooooo mean?
rob murray
09-Feb-11, 18:17
Seems to have done you no harm Rob, you seem like a very intelligent and caring Man to me. It's so different these days of course, its now the Teachers who are terrified and physically sick at the thought of another day at school. 16 stone Teacher tells Willy to stop texting during lessons, Willy takes exception to this and headbuts Teacher, Teacher tries to defend himself and whole class clubs together to say it was Teacher who asaulted Willy for no reason. Willy tells Parents who go down to school and puts Teacher in hospital, Teacher loses job and gets 6 months in prison. Willy leaves school at 16 thinking he is the big shot but has no education at all and spends rest of his life on benefits. He meets a female in similar circumstances, they have one child every year for 9 years and live a life of luxury at others expense !!!
Yep, Teaching today, you can keep it !!!!
C3....:eek::roll:;)
Well ok in theory what you describe above can happen, ie the chap from Dundee goaded into retaliation, but I wouldnt go back to the old days not at al, I would agree that classroom discipline does need tightening up though !
rob murray
09-Feb-11, 18:20
Was at Wick High in the early 60's. Never saw any of that...Yes I got thrown off the school bus for smoking X 2., and I deserved it!
Sorry if you dont believe it Sandy, I was there, I was sick prior to woodwork ( cos I planed under a pencil line ) and taken to the sick room, I can name the teacher names for you but wont....just believe me and many others who experienced it at first hand, lets just say that comming from a primary school the experience ( until you hardended up ) was quite brutal
After reading this thread with interest, while it started about classroom assistants who I think are needed, I was interested in some of the points about school leavers. I was thinking about the literacy and numeracy side of things and whilst I know there are some who can't read or write, I think they are actually very few, although from what I have seen there are quite a number who struggle with these things but can do enough to get by on a daliy basis or even in a job but maybe struggle with things such as their driving theory. On the engineering side no doubt there is a skills shortage but from what I've seen up her to get an apprenticeship it's just the Dounreay ones that are available and they take the cream from the schools and I think it's minimum 5 standard grades at 3 or above. There are some YP who just miss that mark and can't get in so have to go to training schemes instead like the old YTS and even if they wanted to go into engineering more often or not end up in construction.
I do think there are a fair few young folk unemployed in Caithness right now but there' no opportunities for them really. It's even difficult to get into the college these days.
Sorry if you dont believe it Sandy, I was there, I was sick prior to woodwork ( cos I planed under a pencil line ) and taken to the sick room, I can name the teacher names for you but wont....just believe me and many others who experienced it at first hand, lets just say that comming from a primary school the experience ( until you hardended up ) was quite brutal
I said nothing about disbelief...There were a few 'strange' people teaching in both my Schools, but in life we find similar cases..
I am glad that I didn't do woodworking.
I should leave it now...We are getting away from the initial thread.............s
Don't talk to me about bully boy tactics.
I saw a pupil get a leg cut off for not hopping high enough in PE.
A girl in cooking had her head put in the oven and cooked at 180 degrees.
A chemistry teacher made a boy explode because he was breathing.
I saw an RE teacher crucify my best friend.
And a geography teacher once took a first year pupil into the middle of the desert and left him there because he couldn't find his jotter.
Really, it did all happen, I was there, you must believe me........
What do you mean 'off topic'?
Don't talk to me about bully boy tactics.
I saw a pupil get a leg cut off for not hopping high enough in PE.
A girl in cooking had her head put in the oven and cooked at 180 degrees.
A chemistry teacher made a boy explode because he was breathing.
I saw an RE teacher crucify my best friend.
And a geography teacher once took a first year pupil into the middle of the desert and left him there because he couldn't find his jotter.
Really, it did all happen, I was there, you must believe me........
What do you mean 'off topic'?
Now if you had Classroom Assistants non of this would have happened.....Would it?
C3...:eek::roll:;)
Just heard on MFR news that the Highland Council have done a u-turn and will not be axing the classroom assistants jobs, they will look at it over the next two years and look to save half of what they originally planned :o)
http://www.mfr.co.uk/Article.asp?id=19856&spid=25564
on what they are doing
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