View Full Version : CHaP/Ignis Energy meeting
Hi just wondering if anyone here attended the Chap Meeting tonight? I cant make it to tomorrow night but was wondering what was going to be happening.
Cheers
Stack Rock
27-Jan-11, 23:12
It appears that all the heating equipment has been taken out of the large shed and is lying dismantled outside - stuff that was worth millions!!!!
Stack Rock
28-Jan-11, 15:06
The dismantled plant was being loaded onto tucks this morning when I went past. Looks like oil fired heating for the forseeable future.
I saw them taking it out too, couldn't believe what I was seeing. I know someone who's on the cheap heating, £7 a week and they have all the windows open cause it too hot! Is that the end to it then?
Yes the machinery is being taking out as it was just a prototype.
Ignis Energy are taking over from the Highland Council in April and they will have wood chip burners in by Sept. This method has been operational in Denmark for 13 years supplying heat and hot water to 600 homes.
Ignis Energy seem to be taking the project in a good direction.
Yes the machinery is being taking out as it was just a prototype.
Ignis Energy are taking over from the Highland Council in April and they will have wood chip burners in by Sept. This method has been operational in Denmark for 13 years supplying heat and hot water to 600 homes.
Ignis Energy seem to be taking the project in a good direction.
Sorry, but your wrong .The machinery was NOT a prototype. It has been in use in Turkey for around 10 years (4 years before Wick),there they use Commercial/Domestic waste as the fuel.As for Ignis Energy going in the right direction with the Dannish method, again I take issue. Ignis are a short lived company and have alreadly done the name change game and that should set the alarm beels ringing .Wick Councillors give us promises that CHaP would be a WORLD BEATER just to get re-elected,now we have that same councillors letting carpet-baggers in to run a Community Project that CANT make any Money. Its not sustainable, just do the maths .
280 homes at £10.00 per week times 52 weeks =£145,000 thats £28,000 shortfall for the wood fuel alone ,and thats before you add in wages, rent, rates, power and insurance plus much more ...
I was the Engineer that stood up and told the Council that the CHaP project in the manner they presented " WOULD NOT WORK" .That statement as cost me dearly.Now Ignis have taken a page from the letter i sent the council (in 2004) and started back at the basics,but time has moved on and the system they now want to fit is over 6 years out of date .I did approach the Council to let a Charity run it ,but got short shift .
To make it work there are 1 of 3 choices. View the Lidl Leaflet (http://www.offerstw.com/lidl/) for hot sales and coupons.
1.You could get customers to pay £25 per week.
2.Change the fuel to WASTE ,with all the hazzards and health issues that will bring
3.Turn in over to a Community Charity and run it with local engineers that will put the people first.
Best of luck
Sorry, but your wrong .The machinery was NOT a prototype
I was merely stating what was said at the meeting on Friday night.
Suth11. Please dont take it the wrong way i'm not having a go at you .Its the Council and the Councillors that were voted in that should have been kick out over CHaP .They cant or wont learn and by letting them stay in POWER we are the ones that suffer, but we are also the ones to blame for not demanding their heads on a pole .Instead of sorting out a problem of their own making, they when go on to make it worse .The main question is "why not hand it over to a Community Charity" (like they what to do with the swimming pool) .That leads me to believe that someone is benefiting from the deal and it ain't the TAXPAYER .
Thanks to all that contacted me about the CHaP project .The householders on the scheme are still getting their heat from the Distillery boiler that runs on OIL ,we all know that the price of OIL has gone through the roof in the last 12 months and that bill is being paid by the Council using Taxpayers money .If Ignis is not to come on stream until September ,thats other 8 months of bills for the taxpayer.
I asked the Council what was the conditions of the contract with IGNIS ,they said if is Not in the Public interest to know .Ignis being a private company dont have to say what it will cost and what profit is in the contact .It seems that Council tenants are to be used as cannon-fodder,whats next for tenants are the Council planning to sell of their homes.
Sorry, but your wrong .The machinery was NOT a prototype. It has been in use in Turkey for around 10 years (4 years before Wick),there they use Commercial/Domestic waste as the fuel.As for Ignis Energy going in the right direction with the Dannish method, again I take issue. Ignis are a short lived company and have alreadly done the name change game and that should set the alarm beels ringing .Wick Councillors give us promises that CHaP would be a WORLD BEATER just to get re-elected,now we have that same councillors letting carpet-baggers in to run a Community Project that CANT make any Money. Its not sustainable, just do the maths .
280 homes at £10.00 per week times 52 weeks =£145,000 thats £28,000 shortfall for the wood fuel alone ,and thats before you add in wages, rent, rates, power and insurance plus much more ...
I was the Engineer that stood up and told the Council that the CHaP project in the manner they presented " WOULD NOT WORK" .That statement as cost me dearly.Now Ignis have taken a page from the letter i sent the council (in 2004) and started back at the basics,but time has moved on and the system they now want to fit is over 6 years out of date .I did approach the Council to let a Charity run it ,but got short shift .
To make it work there are 1 of 3 choices .
1.You could get customers to pay £25 per week.
2.Change the fuel to WASTE ,with all the hazzards and health issues that will bring
3.Turn in over to a Community Charity and run it with local engineers that will put the people first.
Best of luck
Well written Dozy..
Is this the Ignis Energy co, mentioned?; http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/41232252651f937a99605c0942482165/compdetails (http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/41232252651f937a99605c0942482165/compdetails) previously Regen Laing Ltd
Is this the Ignis Energy co, mentioned?; http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/41232252651f937a99605c0942482165/compdetails (http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/41232252651f937a99605c0942482165/compdetails) previously Regen Laing Ltd
Oh dear, this doesn't look good at all.
The trail of name changing, address changing and Director changing is concerning.
Their 'headquarters' as indicated on their website is a residential house in Richmond (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=TW10+6JH&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Richmond+TW10+6JH,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.452382,-0.294464&spn=0.004259,0.013583&t=h&z=17).
Their registered address is an accountants office in Beaconsfield. (edit: just noticed that the accountants went bust at the end of last year for dodgy share trading !!)
And most alarmingly, I've also looked at their most recent annual accounts which shows them in a deficit:
- cash £2,000
- liabilities to be paid within 12 months: £419,000
- liabilities to be paid in more than 12 months: £577,000
- money due in from clients: £69,000
Which means the net value of the business is..... NEGATIVE £925,000 !!
Expect to see your woodchip plant go up in smoke.
Oh dear, this doesn't look good at all.
The trail of name changing, address changing and Director changing is concerning.
Their 'headquarters' as indicated on their website is a residential house in Richmond (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=TW10+6JH&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Richmond+TW10+6JH,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.452382,-0.294464&spn=0.004259,0.013583&t=h&z=17).
Their registered address is an accountants office in Beaconsfield. (edit: just noticed that the accountants went bust at the end of last year for dodgy share trading !!)
And most alarmingly, I've also looked at their most recent annual accounts which shows them in a deficit:
- cash £2,000
- liabilities to be paid within 12 months: £419,000
- liabilities to be paid in more than 12 months: £577,000
- money due in from clients: £69,000
Which means the net value of the business is..... NEGATIVE £925,000 !!
Expect to see your woodchip plant go up in smoke.
chordie; Well said .If i posted this folk would say its just sour grapes on my part ,but the truths out there .This is the Councils" PREFERED"bidder and they stated that "they looked hard for the right company" .Just goes to show the same CLOWNS are running the CIRCUS.
If the folk of Wick were up for it, we the community could challenge the Councils decision over CHaP/Ignis and put in a community run charity...But we would have to be quick off the mark ..I'm sure the PRESS and TV folk would jump at it ...
This is the Councils" PREFERED"bidder and they stated that "they looked hard for the right company"
Well given that it was a tendering exercise, I've had a look at the original tendering documentation produced by Highland Council which is still available at PublicContractsScotland.
Apart from the fact that this is a 25 year contract, the selection criteria is interesting, and I quote:
As an absolute minimum, organisations must: 1) Demonstrate that they have the relevant experience to design, build, operate, manage, maintain and administrate a district heating scheme and 2)that they have the financial resources to invest in the initial scheme and to maintain delivery of a community heating scheme for a period of up to 25 years without subsidy from the procuring Highland Council.
Failure to provide satisfactory evidence of the above two questions will result in automatic disqualification.
Now given the timing of the tendering process, that would fall in line with the accounting period I outlined in the previous post. So it beggars belief as to how Ignis Energy ever got off the starting blocks in the tendering process since they certainly don't meet condition 2 - not only do they not have any money then, but they had nearly £1million in debt and no obvious income.
As I've not been close to this project, remind me again who are the specific Councillors and Council Officials who are responsible for this. Because they've handed over your heating system to a sham outfit, and broken their own tendering rules in the process.
Chordie;
I would very much like to name and SAME the Councillors involved, but for legal reasons i just can't . SORRY ,as they are still sitting Councillors and i dont need the hazzle i got last time around .You post is an eye-opener and goes to show they are still writing their own rules and putting two fingers up to the public (pity these folk are still in the job).Its up to the Folk of Wick if they want to sort it out .They should stand up and show the highland council that the county belongs to the folk that live there .These closures/sell offs of services ,swimming pools etc and of course the New High School fiasco.The Wick folk should draw a line under this and tell Councillors NO MORE .The people of Wick should decide what goes where and when ,because to their money and their Town ..
I think the Council has breached the guidelines on this a the contact should be null and void.
Chordie;
I would very much like to name and SAME the Councillors involved, but for legal reasons i just can't . SORRY ,as they are still sitting Councillors and i dont need the hazzle i got last time around .You post is an eye-opener and goes to show they are still writing their own rules and putting two fingers up to the public (pity these folk are still in the job).Its up to the Folk of Wick if they want to sort it out .They should stand up and show the highland council that the county belongs to the folk that live there .These closures/sell offs of services ,swimming pools etc and of course the New High School fiasco.The Wick folk should draw a line under this and tell Councillors NO MORE .The people of Wick should decide what goes where and when ,because to their money and their Town ..
I think the Council has breached the guidelines on this a the contact should be null and void.
Whats the bets Noel 'Not' News wont be reporting this story,(or anything to do with the High School shambles) in his diary anytime soon!;)
We need to do something about this and very QUICK.....between us can we organise a meeting of some sort to see wot the options are
yes,i agree.i think the coucil have been very dodgy about this,we need to know exactly where we stand and what protection we have.
wish i never got this heating installed now,its just been a shambles from the very start,some people should be held accountable for this mess
yes,i agree.i think the coucil have been very dodgy about this,we need to know exactly where we stand and what protection we have.
wish i never got this heating installed now,its just been a shambles from the very start,some people should be held accountable for this mess
Hi .Do you think the folk of Wick would be up for starting an ACTION GROUP to get the answers to the question they have .They could also put together a group that could put forward plans to take over the project as the council have clearly broken the rules ? We need someone in Wick to push things on before Ignis do a runner with what little machinery thats left ....We need a Wick Community Champion to step froward ...
well if the council have broken the rules they should be held accountable,there certainly seems to be some shady dealings going on here with minimal information to the public.
i would like to know where all the people in power who set up this shambles are hiding now,like rats deserting a sinking ship seems to come to mind.
millions of pounds out of the public purse have been wasted on this fiasco,who is/was in charge.
i cant understand it.
get these people who started this CHaP to a meeting and let them explain why they thought this heating system was going to work and why it cost so much and why did they wash their hands of it as soon as it looked like it was going to fail.
ok,what can we do to find out where we stand?i am one of the few who have paid for this heating to be installed,i fear that i am up the creek without a paddle,does anyone else feel this way?
surely there is something we can do?
ok,what can we do to find out where we stand?i am one of the few who have paid for this heating to be installed,i fear that i am up the creek without a paddle,does anyone else feel this way?
surely there is something we can do?
I am also a private tenant who invested £3K in installing this system in my house, when sold it wasn't sold as a short term 5yr lifespan but it really does seem like the end!
At the meeting Ignis seemed to be a decent plan but as I have little knowledge of this system i'm really in the dark, reading the posts on here about there companies and the ongoing director changes, debt etc. really worries me.
As stated the council seem to have taken a total disregard to the tendering requirements and it appears they still haven't learned any lessons. They failed in the first instance and its not looking to good now.
Someone with a knowledge of what is happening with this systems is what we need.
The council seem to be selling us down the river.
It wont just affect the private households as if this system fails the council will have to install an alternative e.g wet electric heating and this will severely increase the tenants heating costs probably at least doubling the current £9.80/wk.
This affects all 247 chap households. Lets get some answers so we can see how this plan will take shape and the true viability of it. If the council have been doing it by the book then they'l have nothing to hide.
ok,what can we do to find out where we stand?i am one of the few who have paid for this heating to be installed,i fear that i am up the creek without a paddle,does anyone else feel this way?
surely there is something we can do?
bcsman : I emailed the Council about the ChaP/Ignis matter and pointed out they had infact broken their own and Government rules
on more that one occasion and they had NOT ACTED IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST.I got a swift reply "DELIVERY STATUS FAILURE",so i tried many other council addresses and it was much the same .I phone the HQ and was asked "what was the matter in connection with , when i said Ignis/ChaP " the phone went dead .
It looks like someone or some people dont want thing to come to light or answer question that would see them out of a job ...The Plot Thickens
...
hi dozy
a bad start to the day im afraid,no hot water to shower and no heating,the usuall exscuse from CHap is"oh,the alarm system must have been turned off"ive heard this a few times now.
it looks like the council are goin to go throught with this no matter if they have broken their own rules or not.
what is the number for the HQ?i will call them to see if i get the response as you.
there certainly seems to be some sinister forces at work here.
has anyone else had the same problem as dozy has had with the council?
i am going to call tomorrow to find out what is happening if i get the same response as dozy i.e. phoned slammed down on me,i will weigh up my options and see what i can do to take matters further.
can anyone who is affected by this help me to put pen to paper and write a letter to those in power.we need to find out what is happening,if there is underhanded dealings by the council or CHaP/Ignis.
a letter to MP's MEP's media etc will soon let these people know we mean buissness,we have to stand together,untited we divided we fall and all that.sons of wick,we have come here as free men but what will you do without heating?sorry,got abit carried away,but seriously lets start with a good worded letter,i would appreciate help on this matter.
thanks.
has anyone else had the same problem as dozy has had with the council?
i am going to call tomorrow to find out what is happening if i get the same response as dozy i.e. phoned slammed down on me,i will weigh up my options and see what i can do to take matters further.
bcsman:As folk on the ORG and those who read the local/national papers i had words with Councillors Smith on many occasions over some years.
When Steve Barron was investigating the CHaP fiasco i contacted him and he stated that there was NO mention of my name in ANY Council paperwork.He also stated that he that never been told that the Project had ever been questioned .So who removed my name and articles and to what ends ,any paperwork that would paint the councillors in a bad light was deleted ...
this is looking more and more worrying evertime i read a post on here.what are all the facts here,i dont know the rules and regulations about this takeover if its legal or if any rules have been broken,some help please.
bcsman:As folk on the ORG and those who read the local/national papers i had words with Councillors Smith on many occasions over some years.
When Steve Barron was investigating the CHaP fiasco i contacted him and he stated that there was NO mention of my name in ANY Council paperwork.He also stated that he that never been told that the Project had ever been questioned .So who removed my name and articles and to what ends ,any paperwork that would paint the councillors in a bad light was deleted ...
this is looking more and more worrying evertime i read a post on here.what are all the facts here,i dont know the rules and regulations about this takeover if its legal or if any rules have been broken,some help please.
bcsman: I believe the rules were broken at the very first meeting that this group (councillors) held ,they used the folk of Pulteney. They PROMISED cheap heat under the guise of removing the less well off from FUEL POVERTY.They knew that this system was a non-starter but went down that route because the Energy Saving Trust were handing out money ,so they jumped on the bandwagon. Not because they thought this would being an ended to fuel poverty in Pulteney but could be used to secure their position in the Community.Its a shame that these folk did not have the grace to resign and give the people they have a duty to protect a chance to take control.The Council know full well that a Charity run scheme will have routes to funding outwith the council (Europe) to purchase the right equipment and to make it a success ,so why GIVE it away .
I do think that the private customers of CHaP would have right of recourse , the Council broke the contract (you need to look out the contact) as the system in the contact never worked(its all down to the fine print) .
I think the damage done over the CHaP will have a long lasting effect on Wick .To do nothing in bringing those involved to book over this is the deathnail for the County . It will be a green flag to the Highland Council to do as it pleases with Caithness, as the Councillors dont care and the people dont have the fight in them ...
If it's any help, I was discussing this fiasco with a local friend of mine who is a Chartered Engineer and businessman - he was aware of the scheme but not of the more recent aspects which he thinks looks a bit dodgy. He has offered to help in any way he could by providing some guidance or lending some credibility to tackling the Council or attending a public meeting. He lives near Wick but not part of the heating scheme if that makes any difference. If any one wants to take the lead then PM me and I'll put you in touch.
rob murray
08-Feb-11, 18:23
[QUOTE=dozy;817049]bcsman: I believe the rules were broken at the very first meeting that this group (councillors) held ,they used the folk of Pulteney. They PROMISED cheap heat under the guise of removing the less well off from FUEL POVERTY.They knew that this system was a non-starter but went down that route because the Energy Saving Trust were handing out money ,so they jumped on the bandwagon. Not because they thought this would being an ended to fuel poverty in Pulteney but could be used to secure their position in the Community.Its a shame that these folk did not have the grace to resign and give the people they have a duty to protect a chance to take control.The Council know full well that a Charity run scheme will have routes to funding outwith the council (Europe) to purchase the right equipment and to make it a success ,so why GIVE it away .
I do think that the private customers of CHaP would have right of recourse , the Council broke the contract (you need to look out the contact) as the system in the contact never worked(its all down to the fine print) .
I think the damage done over the CHaP will have a long lasting effect on Wick .To do nothing in bringing those involved to book over this is the deathnail for the County . It will be a green flag to the Highland Council to do as it pleases with Caithness, as the Councillors dont care and the people dont have the fight in them ...[/QUOTE
Im new to this, done a little digging and found http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/docs/local/2010/sr_100624_chaps.pdf
A real hornets nest this one !
rob murray
08-Feb-11, 18:33
Oh dear, this doesn't look good at all.
The trail of name changing, address changing and Director changing is concerning.
Their 'headquarters' as indicated on their website is a residential house in Richmond (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=TW10+6JH&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Richmond+TW10+6JH,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.452382,-0.294464&spn=0.004259,0.013583&t=h&z=17).
Their registered address is an accountants office in Beaconsfield. (edit: just noticed that the accountants went bust at the end of last year for dodgy share trading !!)
And most alarmingly, I've also looked at their most recent annual accounts which shows them in a deficit:
- cash £2,000
- liabilities to be paid within 12 months: £419,000
- liabilities to be paid in more than 12 months: £577,000
- money due in from clients: £69,000
Which means the net value of the business is..... NEGATIVE £925,000 !!
Expect to see your woodchip plant go up in smoke.
Absolutely unbelievable, was there any diligence done on the company as part of the tender process, somebody has f'd up really badly here, or did they, was a diligence exercise undertaken / or was someone instructed not to check the company out ? Who would gain here..can anyone answer this one ?
Im new to this, done a little digging and found http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/docs/local/2010/sr_100624_chaps.pdf
A real hornets nest this one !
Well that was a depressing read. History is about to repeat itself then - this quote from the auditor's report shows that nobody learned anything as exactly the same thing has now been done in relation to awarding a tender to Ignis Energy:
"Although the evaluation of the gasification tenders by the company was overseen by its external technical advisor, of considerable concern is that the advertised evaluation criteria, including the need to demonstrate proven capability, were disregarded.... failure to adhere to its advertised criteria represents a breach of the procurement legislation which could have exposed it to legal challenge."
rob murray
09-Feb-11, 10:41
Well that was a depressing read. History is about to repeat itself then - this quote from the auditor's report shows that nobody learned anything as exactly the same thing has now been done in relation to awarding a tender to Ignis Energy:
"Although the evaluation of the gasification tenders by the company was overseen by its external technical advisor, of considerable concern is that the advertised evaluation criteria, including the need to demonstrate proven capability, were disregarded.... failure to adhere to its advertised criteria represents a breach of the procurement legislation which could have exposed it to legal challenge."
yes and it would seem that in awarding the contract to Ignis energy the tender procedures were also disregarded..ie financial stability ? The millions wasted here could have been saved and prevented the need for cuts....could it ?
http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/doc...0624_chaps.pdf (http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/docs/local/2010/sr_100624_chaps.pdf)
Although the elected member and officer visits to Finland and the Shetland Islands to inspect district heating systems were intended to inform decision making, it is not evident that the visits were of relevance. Furthermore, internal audit questioned whether the elected members and officer in attendance possessed the appropriate skills and qualifications.
Well at least the elected member and officer had a nice holiday to Finland and Shetland Islands at our cost.
We have to do something about this complete shambles!!!!!!
rob murray
09-Feb-11, 18:42
http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/doc...0624_chaps.pdf (http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/docs/local/2010/sr_100624_chaps.pdf)
Although the elected member and officer visits to Finland and the Shetland Islands to inspect district heating systems were intended to inform decision making, it is not evident that the visits were of relevance. Furthermore, internal audit questioned whether the elected members and officer in attendance possessed the appropriate skills and qualifications.
Well at least the elected member and officer had a nice holiday to Finland and Shetland Islands at our cost.
We have to do something about this complete shambles!!!!!!
I really have a superficial knowledge, if at all, on this project, the audit findings suggest to me a clear breach of tender regs, I dont know who was involved with the over seas feasibility visits but will concede that some form of feasibility study was needed prior to progressing the project...clearly though as regards Ingis..if the information on here is correct, then a breach of tender regs has occurred...how many applied through the tender process I wonder ?
I have been informed that the following questions have been lodged with Steve Barron, Director of Housing & Property at Highland Council who has indicated that he's the man to answer them:
1) Was the award of this contract a direct result of a tendering process ? If so, was this tender notice reference number: HC/CHaP/CEX/Operator/062009 as published on the Public Contracts Scotland website on 03/07/2009 ? If not, could you please inform me of where I may obtain the original tender notice.
2) If this contract was tendered, how many responses were there to the tender ?
3) If this contract was tendered, what was the exact wording of the stated evaluation criteria in the tender notice ? Was any part of the following statement published as tender evaluation criteria ?
"As an absolute minimum, organisations must: 1) Demonstrate that they have the relevant experience to design, build, operate, manage, maintain and administrate a district heating scheme and 2)that they have the financial resources to invest in the initial scheme and to maintain delivery of a community heating scheme for a period of up to 25 years without subsidy from the procuring Highland Council.
Failure to provide satisfactory evidence of the above two questions will result in automatic disqualification."
4) Can you confirm that the company awarded the contract to be service provider for the Caithness Heat and Power project is Ignis Energy Ltd, registered office 55 Station Road, Beaconsfield, HP9 1QL, company registration number 06623320 ?
5) Assuming that the contract was tendered, and that Ignis Energy Ltd was one of the tendering organisations, could you clarify how Ignis Energy Ltd met the evaluation criteria of the tender evaluation.
6) At the time of the award of this contract to Ignis Energy Ltd, the published accounts of this company showed that it had: £2,000 in cash; £69,000 in accounts receivables; £419,000 in short term liabilities; £577,000 in long term liabilities. Can you provide an explanation as to how this orgnisation was therefore considered to be financially fit to be awarded this contract, given the very high level of debt relative to the very low level of current assets and working capital ?
7) What is the duration of the contract that has been awarded to Ignis Energy Ltd ?
Will let you know the answers if they get passed on to me.
that will be a very interesting read Chordie
If MPs are getting 12 months in jail for stealing (sorry, not being truthful) about £14,500 they took unlawfully from Taxpayers ,what will the Wick Councillors get for £20 million .Should be around 138 years ,now that would being on a smile ..One can only hope .By the way ,i'm not inferring that local councillors should be or are tarred with the same brush or have done anything wrong .Thats up to the public and VOTERS to decide.
The councillors involved in the "all singing all dancing" heating scheme should hang their heads in shame
I attended the open day in the South school to let people hear how good this system is - I asked Graeme Smith some questions but he was more bothered to float around the school hall as if he was some sort of god - this is the same person that stated in todays Groat that the swimming pool was built on ther cheap and is not fit for purpose, and the library is only books and could be located anywhere.
I understand that this heating system whilst running on oil is costing the taxpayer in the region of £100K per month and rising without and prospect of a change to reduce this is months away (If IGNIS/CHAP are still viable ??)
This money could be better spent on keeping people in jobs and to tidy up the eyesores of delapidated buildings throughout the town - in the old files in the groat today this was something that Ian Sutherland raised 25 years ago.)Some things never change)
I have loads of respect for councillor David Bremner but as for the rest they dont do a lot but look after themselves.
In my opinion GS for one is "Not fit for purpose" as everthing he is involved in is a disaster!!
Remember this at voting time - What has he done for the good of the Wickers and what will he bring in years to come
that will be a very interesting read Chordie
I got an update tonight - the man at the Highland Council claimed not to have received the questions. But has confirmed he has them now and will reply in 20 days.
ohhhhhhh delay tactics 20 days will be 20 days closer to the transfer to ignis I think we really need to act now
You call a meeting and i'll be there for sure ,just get the local paper to post it .
i would dozy but i don't know the first thing about setting up a meeting, so if some other could help I would gladly set up a meeting
Why dont you ask them at the Pulteney Peoples Project .I'm sure that they could/should help ,after all its for the benefit of the Pulteney folk.
Stack Rock
18-Feb-11, 21:17
Why dont you ask them at the Pulteney Peoples Project .I'm sure that they could/should help ,after all its for the benefit of the Pulteney folk.
Emm - could be interesting as Cllr McNab now a committee member of CHAP is I'm sure the PPP founder member and organiser !!!!
I think it could be a choice, between a rock or a hard place lets see which way she jumps .If she says yes and helps get a meeting started or will she try to duct out ,either way she's cannon fodder...
Stack Rock
18-Feb-11, 22:34
I think it could be a choice, between a rock or a hard place lets see which way she jumps .If she says yes and helps get a meeting started or will she try to duct out ,either way she's cannon fodder...
Play chess ?
Well, what is the problem, heating about a tenner a week and it is so hot we have to open windows? Well some are not complaining. We are we have oil and it costs a fair bit
Well, what is the problem, heating about a tenner a week and it is so hot we have to open windows? Well some are not complaining. We are we have oil and it costs a fair bit
When I initially got sold the heating i was told it would be cheaper than my storage heating and would be sustainable. right now with the council pouring hundreds of thousands in per year it is not.
The probem is: I like most people am a tax paying citizen and agree that the council shouldnt be pouring money into it. the council need to sort this out once and for all and not be allowed to make another ***** up like they did initially.
Emm - could be interesting as Cllr McNab now a committee member of CHAP is I'm sure the PPP founder member and organiser !!!!
To be fair to Cllr Macnab (who Ive never spoken to in my life), I would say that she has proven her worth, both before becoming a Cllr and since. Think back to what the two other Wick Cllr's were before becoming our esteemed civic leaders? Cllr Macnab had to cut it in the real world... and survived!
CHaP has turned out to be a monumental cock-up of Scottish Parliment porportions, (anyone else see the common demonimator?;)) but that is one blip on what I would say is not a bad performance overall. Not everyone agrees with the ethics of PPP but it does provide jobs (:roll:) and support for those who cant or wont help themselves. She may pick up a number of salaries from the different bodies she has ultimatly formned, but at least IMO she works hard and at least looks at things like a buisness woman, and not (like some) wishy washy typical Highland Cooncillor preying they get kept on at the next elections.;)
There's a old Caithness saying "Fly with the Crows ,Shot with the Crows ". If you are part of it and DON'T stand up and shout when you know underhand things are going on ,hell mend you . We are not talking £50 quid here, it's £20 million plus thats 20,000,000.00 .Thats a hell of alot of zero's and thats money the community could well do with now . They lied from the start ,and were told it was a waste of time and money .Well "Stupid is as Stupid does", the quicker these folk are ousted the better.
I would like to reply to the quotes below. I am sure there is an easier way to do this but I have no idea how to do it. However I cant let some of these comments go without redress.
Stack Rock
1. Emm - could be interesting as Cllr McNab now a committee member of CHAP is I'm sure the PPP founder member and organiser !!!!
Yes Stack Rock a committee member now but never involved with it at any level other than obtaining update reports by our Area Manager along with every other local councillor.
CHaP was set up by a local council employee who wanted to put three represetatives on the board so they could have a community, business and council. PPP's only involvement was asking at a committee would a rep go on their board. After that neither myself or PPP had any other involvement, the council ran it here at a local level by officials.
1. I think it could be a choice, between a rock or a hard place lets see which way she jumps .If she says yes and helps get a meeting started or will she try to duct out ,either way she's cannon fodder...
2. There's a old Caithness saying "Fly with the Crows ,Shot with the Crows ". If you are part of it and DON'T stand up and shout when you know underhand things are going on ,hell mend you .
Dozy the reason I agreed to go on the committee now ie after the Highland Council took ownership and responsibiltiy of the project (at a very high level) was to help sort it out because like every one else it should never have been allowed to get to the state it did, and I dont duct out of my responsibilites. I have no idea what a meeting is for but if I was asked I would help in any way I could.
1. To be fair to Cllr Macnab (who Ive never spoken to in my life), I would say that she has proven her worth, both before becoming a Cllr and since. Think back to what the two other Wick Cllr's were before becoming our esteemed civic leaders? Cllr Macnab had to cut it in the real world... and survived!
CHaP has turned out to be a monumental cock-up of Scottish Parliment porportions, (anyone else see the common demonimator?) but that is one blip on what I would say is not a bad performance overall. Not everyone agrees with the ethics of PPP but it does provide jobs () and support for those who cant or wont help themselves. She may pick up a number of salaries from the different bodies she has ultimatly formned, but at least IMO she works hard and at least looks at things like a buisness woman, and not (like some) wishy washy typical Highland Cooncillor preying they get kept on at the next elections.
droopy - thanks for kind comments, but just to make clear some issues, over 500 people per week use the project for a variety of sessions these include a large % of working class like teachers, business people etc who attend hobbies groups or computer classes and pay for them, pensioners who attend various classes and young people who have not been able to secure a job but are very keen to do so. The perception is you have to be poor but that is not the case at all.
I am afraid I dont get a number of salaries, I get one and the rest of the money is used to employ local people and help them gain qualifications and a career. I have a great team of people who make the project successful, and bring money into the county that otherwise would be getting spent South. :lol:
Dozy the reason I agreed to go on the committee now ie after the Highland Council took ownership and responsibiltiy of the project (at a very high level) was to help sort it out because like every one else it should never have been allowed to get to the state it did, and I dont duct out of my responsibilites. I have no idea what a meeting is for but if I was asked I would help in any way I could.
So did the Council consult with you and the Committee on the award of the contract to Ignis Energy Ltd ? Do you think that outfit is fit to run this project ?
rob murray
21-Feb-11, 10:25
To be fair to Cllr Macnab (who Ive never spoken to in my life), I would say that she has proven her worth, both before becoming a Cllr and since. Think back to what the two other Wick Cllr's were before becoming our esteemed civic leaders? Cllr Macnab had to cut it in the real world... and survived!
CHaP has turned out to be a monumental cock-up of Scottish Parliment porportions, (anyone else see the common demonimator?;)) but that is one blip on what I would say is not a bad performance overall. Not everyone agrees with the ethics of PPP but it does provide jobs (:roll:) and support for those who cant or wont help themselves. She may pick up a number of salaries from the different bodies she has ultimatly formned, but at least IMO she works hard and at least looks at things like a buisness woman, and not (like some) wishy washy typical Highland Cooncillor preying they get kept on at the next elections.;)
I am shocked to read that not everyone agrees with the "ethics" of the PPP, I would say their ethics are up there with the best...what is there to disagree with ?
Pepsix;
Thanks for putting pen to paper (so to speak)and replying to the post .The post was a double edged sword ,it was to point out that it was not the public that had used or would use you as "Cannon Fodder" but your so called friends in Council chambers. They seem more than willing to place you in the firing line with your appointment to that TOTAL FAILURE known as CHaP .We the public (better known as the folk that pay)know who is to blame ,but it is you along with others that have allowed the CHaP BOARD to get off with it .You and others were made well aware of the short coming of the project long before a shovel hit the ground at PULTENEY (it's your patch) .No Councillor stood up or even tried to stop the Project ,they all gave the impression they were in full support.I did offer my services to the Project long before things went wrong, but was told "we have EXPERTS on the job".This is even after they had been told i had been working with district heating systems for over 35 years ,so know the pitfalls all to well .A Councillor told me to go away "what do locals know of such systems" as it transpires alot more than his so called EXPERTS. I believe we could have saved the PROJECT and could still prove an asset and help greatly in the fight on fuel poverty ,but IGNIS ain't the way to go .
I wrote to First Minister A Salmond but have still not had a reply ,my solicitor is arranging a letter to be hand delivered in connection with the Council/Ignis contract .
So if you are minded to call a meeting to see what way or direction the folk of Wick would like to go, please do so. I would be happy to attend .
has anyone else had the same problem as dozy has had with the council?
i am going to call tomorrow to find out what is happening if i get the same response as dozy i.e. phoned slammed down on me,i will weigh up my options and see what i can do to take matters further.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/businessinformation/publiclyownedcompanies/chap/
Perhaps the above link might be helpful.
http://www.caithness-business.co.uk/article.php?id=2127
Worth a read.
ok guys the contracts are on the table ...... wot are we gonna do about this total shambles ..... any ideas/help will be very welcomed
what can we do?
ok guys the contracts are on the table ...... wot are we gonna do about this total shambles ..... any ideas/help will be very welcomed
caramel joy
21-Mar-11, 15:56
ok guys and gals now is the time to stand together and be counted please find out more before you sign and demand another meeting before its too late i have 15 people not knowing what to do and im sure there are more so please contact me and i am willing to speak up for all customers of the chap, any ideas as we are running out of time.:)
I have been informed that the following questions have been lodged with Steve Barron, Director of Housing & Property at Highland Council who has indicated that he's the man to answer them:
1) Was the award of this contract a direct result of a tendering process ? If so, was this tender notice reference number: HC/CHaP/CEX/Operator/062009 as published on the Public Contracts Scotland website on 03/07/2009 ? If not, could you please inform me of where I may obtain the original tender notice.
2) If this contract was tendered, how many responses were there to the tender ?
3) If this contract was tendered, what was the exact wording of the stated evaluation criteria in the tender notice ? Was any part of the following statement published as tender evaluation criteria ?
"As an absolute minimum, organisations must: 1) Demonstrate that they have the relevant experience to design, build, operate, manage, maintain and administrate a district heating scheme and 2)that they have the financial resources to invest in the initial scheme and to maintain delivery of a community heating scheme for a period of up to 25 years without subsidy from the procuring Highland Council.
Failure to provide satisfactory evidence of the above two questions will result in automatic disqualification."
4) Can you confirm that the company awarded the contract to be service provider for the Caithness Heat and Power project is Ignis Energy Ltd, registered office 55 Station Road, Beaconsfield, HP9 1QL, company registration number 06623320 ?
5) Assuming that the contract was tendered, and that Ignis Energy Ltd was one of the tendering organisations, could you clarify how Ignis Energy Ltd met the evaluation criteria of the tender evaluation.
6) At the time of the award of this contract to Ignis Energy Ltd, the published accounts of this company showed that it had: £2,000 in cash; £69,000 in accounts receivables; £419,000 in short term liabilities; £577,000 in long term liabilities. Can you provide an explanation as to how this orgnisation was therefore considered to be financially fit to be awarded this contract, given the very high level of debt relative to the very low level of current assets and working capital ?
7) What is the duration of the contract that has been awarded to Ignis Energy Ltd ?
Will let you know the answers if they get passed on to me.
I am the person who was asked to contact the council and was the author of the letter quoted above.
The reply is:
1) "No contract has yet been awarded."
2) "There were 25 expressions of interest in the original advert and 6 bidders were then invited to submit online solutions."
3) "This wording is that which appeared in the both the PCS and the OJEU."
4) "No contract has yet been awarded."
5) "I am unable to answer this question as we are still in negotiation with the preferred bidder."
6) "I am unable to answer this question as we are still in negotiation with the preferred bidder."
7) "No contract has yet been awarded."
So Ignis Energy Ltd have not yet been awarded the contract, although they are expected to be awarded it by 31st March. I shall ask questions 4, 5, 6 & 7 again after 31st March.
I hope this information is of some help to someone in the meantime.
Someone correct me here if I am wrong but I understand that letters headed with CHAP and signed by a director of IGNIS have gone out to all those who have the heating offering £50 if they sign up to metered heating. And the council are saying that they don't have the contract yet? That seems a bit odd.
caramel joy
21-Mar-11, 19:22
yes contracts for ignis have been sent out and they tell everyone if they dont sign they have to go on a larger tarrif if they sign after the end of march or put in another heating system at the cost of the homeowner. please voice opinions now before its too late dont let the council walk all over you it is their mistake after all not ours.
caramel joy
22-Mar-11, 11:54
time is running out so please voice your opinions now
IMPORTANT NOTE TO ALL HOUSEHOLDERS WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE CHAP/IGNIS LETTER:
Before you sign up to a contract with Ignis, be aware that Ignis Energy Ltd themselves DO NOT YET HAVE A CONTRACT AWARDED TO THEM by Highland Council to run the CHaP scheme.
Is there any truth in that if the tennents DONT sign up to the Ignis contract the Council will have to stand by the original contract ????
On the 5th of January 2011 the following Directors of Ignis Energy Ltd had their appointments terminated:
- David Hardy, Director
- Andrew Harmer, Director
- Roger Miller, Company Secretary.
The latter termination means the company no longer has a Company Secretary.
On the same day in January, a Martin Gale was appointed as a Director. But by the 9th of March 2011 he'd obviously had enough as his appointed was terminated on that day.
Meanwhile, the registered office for this company continues to be just a nameplate on an accountant's building, and the main company address is someone's house in Richmond, Surrey.
Be very careful what you sign up to.
Get a copy of tomorrow's Groat - there should be a piece in it in which various parties have had some of these questions put to them.
It is expected to give credence to the view that Highland Council can't award the contract to Ignis Energy because Ignis are not in a fit financial position to take it on, and that the only way Ignis will get propped up by their banks is if the majority of householders sign up to the new heating contracts by the end of the month.
Let's see what the presses print tomorrow morning.
[QUOTE=xva;833906]Get a copy of tomorrow's Groat - there should be a piece in it in which various parties have had some of these questions put to them.
It is expected to give credence to the view that Highland Council can't award the contract to Ignis Energy because Ignis are not in a fit financial position to take it on, and that the only way Ignis will get propped up by their banks is if the majority of householders sign up to the new heating contracts by the end of the month.
Where are all the Local Councillor's that dont want to see another CHaP fiasco ,it is not time they came out and wrote Ignis off and stood by a Community Charity run takeover
[QUOTE=xva;833906]Get a copy of tomorrow's Groat - there should be a piece in it in which various parties have had some of these questions put to them.
It is expected to give credence to the view that Highland Council can't award the contract to Ignis Energy because Ignis are not in a fit financial position to take it on, and that the only way Ignis will get propped up by their banks is if the majority of householders sign up to the new heating contracts by the end of the month.
Where are all the Local Councillor's that dont want to see another CHaP fiasco ,it is not time they came out and wrote Ignis off and stood by a Community Charity run takeover
Is this it? http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/9245/Alarm_as_energy_takeover_nears.html
QUADBIKER
25-Mar-11, 20:06
Hi folks, friends, just looking for a little bit of help and support, i was just wondering how many folk out there would like to sign a bit of paper for me as i would like to raise a few million pounds for myself, of course i would set up an office and get a name plate placed on a wall, i would be most greatfull for any help. Well if the council are willing too accept ignis under these terms this will be as big a farse as chap has been from the begining
Hi folks, friends, just looking for a little bit of help and support, i was just wondering how many folk out there would like to sign a bit of paper for me as i would like to raise a few million pounds for myself, of course i would set up an office and get a name plate placed on a wall, i would be most greatfull for any help. Well if the council are willing too accept ignis under these terms this will be as big a farse as chap has been from the begining
Ignis are at the "VOTE FOR ME" stage or you wont get anything (sounds like blackmail or bullying to me ) and all those who sign up will get a nice new meter fitted and one huge bill to pay for it .Just wait and see those heating bills go through the roof,if folk think petrols a rip off they ain't seen nothing yet .Well someone's got to pay for the £17 million they promised . Conned again and they say " The Council have learned from their mistakes" .I THINK NOT ..
PS .By the way got my reply from the Scottish Minister today ,it shows that the Council have been telling porkies to more than a few ..I will post the whole thing shortly..
so if I am reading this thread right the contracts that have been signed and sent to ignis are and have been done illegally
and Dozy are the Scottish Ministers going to do anything about it
do i have to sign the contact by the end of the month or are they just playing at bullying tactics?
so if I am reading this thread right the contracts that have been signed and sent to ignis are and have been done illegally
and Dozy are the Scottish Ministers going to do anything about it
If what i can gather from reading between the lines anyone that should have done something to stop the mess at CHaP happening wishes it would just go away .Even the CHaP board that were shouting its a"WORLDBEATER" at the start are all in denial .So that just leaves the poor customers and the folk that were promised so much left with a choice of going nowhere .I would hope that the CHaP BOARD would give back the money they took from the private householders that joined the scheme because its CHaP that broke the contract .In truth i dont see it happening but they should bring those involved to book .If PPP had started an ACTION GROUP just after the CHaP collapse, they could have had the support of many folk who will now find themselves in a worse position shortly after Ignis take over.I see the folk of Pulteney that are on the scheme paying through the nose for the mistakes of a few .
I now feel that there will not be a happy end to this and the blame must lie with the Council and Councillors involved . I do hope that come Election time the folk of Wick remember the state the Council have left Wick in .
Whats illegal and legal seens to be a thin line that depends on what side has the most money and of course the power ,and that lies with the Council . As stated before they wont take the blame so they wont fix it either ..
We will have to wait and see if the TV guys pick it up as promised ,only then will you see the folk at fault running for cover.Until then i think the folk at Pulteney are on thier own .
[QUOTE=dozy;833970]
Is this it? http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/9245/Alarm_as_energy_takeover_nears.html
So, if you are member of the taxpaying public and you write to Steve Barron, Director of Housing at Highland Council, he takes 20 days to reply to say that he can't answer any questions as discussions with Ignis Energy are ongoing. Yet if you are a reporter for the Groat and you phone him and ask him the same questions, he suddenly seems able to throw commercial confidentially to the wind and discuss it all there and then over the phone.
Nice to see patronising arrogance alive and well in Highland Council.
do i have to sign the contact by the end of the month or are they just playing at bullying tactics?
Do not sign the contract. The banks will not fund Ignis Energy. The Council have been suckered into a fantasy. Would you give them money based upon what is now known about them (and what is still to be revealed about them)?
Since the illusive Craig Ibbetson, or Charles Craig Ibbetson to give him his full name, along with Steve Barron of the Council only seem to be willing to speak to journalists, if anyone happens to meet Mr Ibbetson, could they ask him the following questions:
1) On 14th December 2010, Charles Craig Ibbetson along with fellow Director of Ignis Energy Ltd John Andrew Chappell, registered a new company called
IGNIS WICK LTD
It is registered to the same nameplate address in Beaconsfield, and run from the same bedroom in a house in Richmond.
What is the purpose of this company ?
2) Why did Charles Craig Ibbetson have his Directorship of Ignis Energy terminated in April 2010, only for him then to be re-appointed as a Director of Ignis Energy in January 2011 ?
3) Is he the same Craig Ibbetson who made a planning application to Highland Council ref 11/00856/FUL on 9th March 2011 for an extension to a district heating system west of South Road, Wick ?
Since the illusive Craig Ibbetson, or Charles Craig Ibbetson to give him his full name, along with Steve Barron of the Council only seem to be willing to speak to journalists, if anyone happens to meet Mr Ibbetson, could they ask him the following questions:
1) On 14th December 2010, Charles Craig Ibbetson along with fellow Director of Ignis Energy Ltd John Andrew Chappell, registered a new company called
IGNIS WICK LTD
It is registered to the same nameplate address in Beaconsfield, and run from the same bedroom in a house in Richmond.
What is the purpose of this company ?
2) Why did Charles Craig Ibbetson have his Directorship of Ignis Energy terminated in April 2010, only for him then to be re-appointed as a Director of Ignis Energy in January 2011 ?
3) Is he the same Craig Ibbetson who made a planning application to Highland Council ref 11/00856/FUL on 9th March 2011 for an extension to a district heating system west of South Road, Wick ?
It certainly dosen't make sense. How can Ignis Energy apply to HRC to dig up roads, pathways and playing fields, according to the application, to lay pipework for a heating system that they haven't been awarded a contract for yet?
hmmmmm me thinks some of the debt Ignis has is lining the highland councils pockets
mmmm well i dont think you should say that thejudd coz we simply dont have the evidence but i do think the council have not been playing things by the book,some under handed dealings may have certainly been going on here,i just hope the get investigated and held to account for the lies and dodgy dealings
hmmmmm me thinks some of the debt Ignis has is lining the highland councils pockets
hi dozy
anyword from the scottish minister you wrote to?
hi dozy
anyword from the scottish minister you wrote to?
bcsman; I did get an e-mail back with the usual Government speak but they never knew abot the info i had supplied the Council before and during the whole CHaP fiasco .So they looking into the LOST info and lost/delete data and press articles that the Audit Commission never saw .I was going to post the reply but have been told that is not allowed as it is a ongoing inquiry .So we will have to wait and see what happens of that front .
I feel that with Ignis in the CHaP driving seat ,Wick is in a lot more trouble than i though the Council would place any community in.
Dozy with the new information is there anything the scottish government can/will do to stop the handover going ahead
Dozy with the new information is there anything the scottish government can/will do to stop the handover going ahead
To be honest i don't see them really doing anything at this moment in time,their focus is on the Elections .It all comes back to the folk on the old scheme ,if they dont sign up Ignis are out .The CHaP project and the vest amount of money thats gone walk-about needs to be looked at very closely, but who knows...If Ignis are the pick of the bunch that tendered ,god knows how bad the rest where .I just can't fathom why the Council are Hell bent on Ignis ,there must be more to it ...
Here's a Company with a shady past and NO HISTORY on this type of Engineering ,i have been involved in District and Community heat schemes of over 35 years.Ignis are just so far off the mark its stupid ,they want to run wood fired boilers .Its 20 years behind the times ,Yes wood fired systems are better now but its all old hat ..
To be fair ,i've been fighting a lone corner for over 10 years now with the Council and CHaP. I've been marked as a "Whistleblower and a Troublemaker" by some in the Council and i can tell you mud sticks even when you tell the truth .So i think its about time i called it a day with the CHaP Project because if the folk of Wick wont stand up and fight why should i ...
I will post anything i get back from the Minister but that will be the end of it for me ...
roadbowler
29-Mar-11, 13:16
do i have to sign the contact by the end of the month or are they just playing at bullying tactics? You can "conditionally accept" the offer/contract instead. Your conditions can be anything you find fit in this crazy situation. ie... I accept your offer on proof of claim you actually have been awarded the contract?! (sounds like they haven't yet!) If you ignore you tacitly refused the offer. In any situation you are unsure of... it is best to use "conditional acceptance"!
I will post anything i get back from the Minister but that will be the end of it for me ...
Really sorry to hear that dozy
I think they have swayed alot of people with the promiss of £100 credit and their bulling tactics............. I go by the saying "if it sounds to good to be true it usually is" they know the people with meters will be paying more which is why they are offering the credit or cash.
I will post anything i get back from the Minister but that will be the end of it for me ...
Really sorry to hear that dozy
I think they have swayed alot of people with the promiss of £100 credit and their bulling tactics............. I go by the saying "if it sounds to good to be true it usually is" they know the people with meters will be paying more which is why they are offering the credit or cash.
There are two things that jump out at you with Ignis (i dont mean they aint got a clue ) .Firstly is the new meters pre-pay just like the Electricity companies ones (they cost a arm and leg to run ) . Secondly is the statement Ignis made in the Paper today ,they plan to supply the high school .That means they already know that the Council will be building on the sports park ground and there must have been a deal cut behind the scenes .The Council and Ignis get themselves deeper in it every day ,local Councillor's must also know whats going on .It all goes to push for a JUDICIAL INQUIRY as soon as possible .As for the GROOMING excersise Ignis are using on the Pulteney customer the £100 will not last 3 weeks as with any meter you pay twice the cost .The £100 sweetener will be clawed back in the first 6 months with line retail costs alone.Why dont the folk of Pulteney get it ,Ignis are in it for PROFIT and that will come from their customers .There will be no more free heat on the tax payer just a cost of £20-25 a week for heat alone ,WAKE UP !
The whole thing goes from Bad to Worse ...
I gave the folk of Wick a waring at the start of the CHaP fiasco and i now give the same waring about Ignis ,infact its an ALARM CALL ..THIS time around the TROUBLE is of thier own making ....
sinclairbay
30-Mar-11, 11:06
It's funny - I've always said that the reason the council was so desperate to get the High School on Bignold Park was so that the heating could be supplied by CHaP.
Is this information in today's Courier?
It's funny - I've always said that the reason the council was so desperate to get the High School on Bignold Park was so that the heating could be supplied by CHaP.
Is this information in today's Courier?
When we first when to the council with plans for a district heating scheme it was to be built at the railway station so it could over the Hospital,Swimming pool,School and police station along with others in the town center with smaller community systems dotted around Wick and the county .The Council picked there own idea of the system.What is strange that some of what IGNIS are proposing comes straight from the scheme we offered the council 10 years ago ,so where or who gave them the paperwork on that ..I think the Council are at it ....
Why dont the council build the new school up behind the old bignold hospital its a far better site ...Maybe this is why the Council are hellbent on the bignold park and also getting rid of the swimming pool and library.I was speaking to other engineers today and a few things come to light.Will Ignis just lease the new equipment ,run it for a few months take out a huge loan on the strength of it then move the cash over to one of their many other companies and disappear. The best one is if IGNIS have nothing to hide why have they not offered me a job .I was quite taken with the idea, not that i would take then up on such an offer The whole thing gets blacker and darker the more that comes to light
oh here we go ......... I presented my conditional contract to Ignis on monday and when I didn't get the phone call I was told I would get I went into the office......... suprise suprise Ingis is NOT going to accept my conditional contract and have NOT got the decency or BALLS to speak to me direct
I have just been re reading all the paprework that has been sent to me and nowhere is there any direct contact information for Ingis
I have just been re reading all the paprework that has been sent to me and nowhere is there any direct contact information for Ingis
The telephone number for Craig Ibbetson's spare bedroom is 020 8332 9563.
roadbowler
31-Mar-11, 20:10
oh here we go ......... I presented my conditional contract to Ignis on monday and when I didn't get the phone call I was told I would get I went into the office......... suprise suprise Ingis is NOT going to accept my conditional contract and have NOT got the decency or BALLS to speak to me direct
hmmm, £17 MILLION pounds divided by 260 householders. So, does this mean if they don't accept your contract they will be £65,000 short? gee, mebbe they'll reconsider! lol
THEY (ignis) won't have the option to reconsider as I have made the decision not to sign any contract with them, so the other 259 householders can share the burdon lol good luck to um they will need it
Apologies to the Groat for scanning their newspaper, but.....
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5346/groatletters.jpg
Bill Fernie
01-Apr-11, 10:31
Steve Barron the Director of Housing and Property, Highland Council has issued a letter in reponse to the article in the John O'Groat Journal last week. The letter appears also in the John O'Groat Journal today. You can read it at -
http://www.caithness-business.co.uk/article.php?id=2197
Steve Barron the Director of Housing and Property, Highland Council has issued a letter in reponse to the article in the John O'Groat Journal last week. The letter appears also in the John O'Groat Journal today. You can read it at -
http://www.caithness-business.co.uk/article.php?id=2197
Steve Barron clearly HASN'T done his due diligence.
1 - He says that Ignis is "..supported by Ludgate Environmental Fund...".
Ludgate Environmental Fund DOES NOT list Ignis Energy Ltd as part of its portfolio of investment companies.
2 - He says that "...the Council has satisfied itself that the Ignis directors Craig Ibbetson and John Chappell have the knowledge and previous experience for this venture."
At the time at which negotiations were ongoing between Ignis Energy and the Council, and at the time it was decided that Ignis Energy would be preferred bidders, Ibbetson and Chappell WERE NOT DIRECTORS of Ignis Energy - they had their appointments terminated in April 2010. They became directors again, after Ignis Energy had been selected by the Council in January 2011. So during that time, the Council were negotiating with a company that didn't have these supposedly key people running it.
Steve Barron the Director of Housing and Property, Highland Council has issued a letter in reponse to the article in the John O'Groat Journal last week. The letter appears also in the John O'Groat Journal today. You can read it at -
http://www.caithness-business.co.uk/article.php?id=2197
I dont think Steve Barron standing in the Caithness Community could be any lower and the article will only go to prove that the Council not only broke all the tendering rules but colluded with Ignis to some extent over the Contract to run CHaP .I have stated before that Mr S Barron's investigation into CHaP was flawed and he failed to bring all the information to the table . Therefore the Audit Commission Inquiry is a WHITEWASH ,YES the report may rap a few knuckles but there are no sacking or resignation . The Council may think they can pull the wool over folks eyes on this one but i beg to differ ,the fight will go on until the whole truth comes out .
So the Council can do it the easy or hard way ,no more lies ,removing data and trying to rewrite history.Its not only Councillors that were involved with CHaP Board but all councillors that stood back and let it happen.The People of Wick deserve better from their elected officals,and these elected folk should show greater respect . Words like TRUTH,HONESTY and INTEGRITY all seem devoid from the Highland Council and its agents ,in my opinion.. There's a couple of things, why is there NO mention for where all the MONEY went and WHY we now have IGNIS spouting the same speil as CHaP was "We have expects in the field and we are speaking to companies who are also expects".Why would the Council pick a company that dont have there own experts in-house.I look forward the seeing the engineering specs on this one ,i got it dead right last time and with the noises coming from IGNIS i see the council in for a hiding....
It's amazing what comes out of the woodwork when you start to open up discussion to the public.
I have just been informed, and had it confirmed, that one of the Ignis Energy Ltd directors, John Andrew Chappell, whom Highland Council have placed such credibility in, was a director of at least five ENRON companies, before they were all placed in liquidation and the US office bearers of the parent company sent to jail.
I'm sure no-one needs reminding of ENRON, but here's a link anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal
ROFL I see that they have extendid the deadline lol and that everyone will have a meter installed if they use it or not so everyone can have the sweetner of £100 credit/£50 cash has anyone asked Ignis (a company with no money) where they intend to get the cash from or are they hoping that everyone will take the £100 credit option
ROFL I see that they have extendid the deadline lol and that everyone will have a meter installed if they use it or not so everyone can have the sweetner of £100 credit/£50 cash has anyone asked Ignis (a company with no money) where they intend to get the cash from or are they hoping that everyone will take the £100 credit option
If it walks like a DUCK and quacks like a DUCK it must be a CON .Who said the Council had learned a lesson,it must have been a class in how to become an expert in HOODWINKING and CARPETBAGING...Shame on you Highland Council next they will be changing to a new motto, it could be "we like to swindle taxpayers" .I'll not be surprized if they started using it on thier letterheads at least we could say there's some truth in it .. I see in the local rag a new lot are lining up for your votes "birds of a feather flock together" need i say more..
Whats the lastest on the CHaP /Ignis/Council affair ..
By the way the word "SWINDLE": a confidence trick,akind of fraud,a ruse ,to defraud of money or property.
Whats the lastest on the CHaP /Ignis/Council....
The latest is this:
- my insider source in the Council tells me that as there is no hope of Ignis getting the funding they need on their own, that the Council are going to use the funding earmarked to extend the heating system to the High School as a guarantee to Ignis's bank by agreeing to fund the extension in Ignis's name.
- I was at a meeting in Edinburgh last week at which one of the unsuccessful bidders is preparing a legal challenge to the Council's decision to select Ignis, and so force a retendering.
- the Chief Executive of Highland Council is investigating a formal complaint against Steve Barron.
The plot thinkens....... if the council are having to use "earmarked funds" then that just goes to prove that Ignis are not financially viable and that the council have known this from the start. I so hope the challenge is successful.
OMG they must be getting really really desparate I have now had yet another copy of the Ingis contract to sign lol thats 3 I have had..... this is getting laughable .......... if only there was someting to laugh about :(
OMG they must be getting really really desparate I have now had yet another copy of the Ingis contract to sign lol thats 3 I have had..... this is getting laughable .......... if only there was someting to laugh about :(
Ingis should rename themselves "Titanic Energy " that was another one that never completed it first and only contract .I bet there's a good few folk the wished they had never signed up to be onboard that one .
The council are now phoning people to ask why they haven't signed their contract lol
It seems they now also have someone going round the houses with letters telling them that they must sign up by the 15th. If they decide to continue with the supply without signing they will be charged a much higher rate and will not qualify for the "free" £100. What's worse is that they are also telling tenants who decide they do not want this form of heating that there is a possibility that the housing association they are with will evict them if they don't agree to go ahead and sign. Some of the area covered includes very vulnerable people and using scare tactics like this is totally out of order.
sinclairbay
13-Apr-11, 15:24
It seems they now also have someone going round the houses with letters telling them that they must sign up by the 15th. If they decide to continue with the supply without signing they will be charged a much higher rate and will not qualify for the "free" £100. What's worse is that they are also telling tenants who decide they do not want this form of heating that there is a possibility that the housing association they are with will evict them if they don't agree to go ahead and sign. Some of the area covered includes very vulnerable people and using scare tactics like this is totally out of order.
That can't be legal is it?
If such a letter existed, and a copy obtained, it would be very interesting to see what (in no particular order) John Thurso, the Daily Record, the Daily Mail, and the BBC might have to say about it. It would certainly get an airing in "Private Eye" in their "Rotten Boroughs" segment - were the allegation found to be true.
And if any local dignitary were to be reading this, it might be useful for him/her to consider being in the position of being party to this discussion, even by simple association with the Org., and thus having knowledge of this content, and then neither rebutting or supporting this accusation.
Very strange.......
The letter itself did not make reference to what I have stated about being evicted but the person who delivered the letter did. I can assure you that this is 100% true. [disgust]
sounds like they are getting really really desparate for "votes" I haven't had a phone call or a visit...... I'm feeling left out now lol
I had a letter from the Council this week in which, amongst other things, they confirm that the contracts you've signed with Ignis are meaningless and worthless unless the Council formally awards the contract to them, and the only reason the Council supported them doing this was so that Ignis could try and get some money.
So has every1 signed there contract with ignis now that the deadline has passed? we have signed our new amended contract as we feel the council may just close the doors on the scheme and we'l be paying more to heat the house with a possible electric alternative.
if Ignis get the contract you will be paying much more then they are stating for your heating anyway, they are using national average energy usage figures for their costings and we all know that caithness is far from national average when it comes to the weather conditions........ you don't in all honesty think they are gonna keep the rates they are offering for long, you only have to see what the council are paying out for oil at the moment, and if Ignis get the contract they will have to run the oil fired boiler until the re-build the (new) generator. dozy stated in an earlier post that if Ignis get in people will be paying more like £20 to £25 a week for the heating
So has every1 signed there contract with ignis now that the deadline has passed? we have signed our new amended contract as we feel the council may just close the doors on the scheme and we'l be paying more to heat the house with a possible electric alternative.
With your house already having wet heating the only course left open to the council would be to put a gas boiler in .Now you have signed you are saving the council/ Ignis thousands and joined a system that has tied your hands for years to come .You still have a chance to withdrawn legally from any door step contract.I dont see the Council paying to rip out the radiators and pipework plus the cost of panel heats,it makes no sense but who knows.The bullying tactics being used is illegal and Ignis and the Council know this ,if i was you i would call in the Police and get them charged.
The whole Council/Ignis contract stinks to high heaven and something should be done..
With your house already having wet heating the only course left open to the council would be to put a gas boiler in.
Sorry i meant Economy 10 Wet Electric with a 12kw boiler. This to me would be the cheapest option in terms of installation costs for the Highland Council. I currently do not have gas outside my house and with the council tenants the council will be more keen to install something with less maintenance. An gas boiler needs a yearly service.
Aren't my hands tied already. I either get ignis in or the council closes the scheme and im given an alternative system?
Has anyone heard anything about the legal challenge yet
Has anyone heard anything about the legal challenge yet
Currently waiting for the Council to respond to another round of awkward questions first. Got to wait the usual 20 days they are allowed under FoI requests (and lost a week when they claimed again that they never got the initial correspondence). The first time that questions were put to the Council they stalled by claiming they couldn't discuss due to negotiations....then of course had their hand forced a few days later when the Groat contacted them and asked the same things. This ultimately forced Steve Barron to write his infamous letter to the Groat. In the meantime, here are the questions currently being asked of Steve Barron of the Council. Will post reply when received.
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1 - Could you clarify how Ignis Energy Ltd met the published tender criteria in order to be selected as preferred bidder given that as a company they fulfilled neither of the qualification criteria namely "1) Demonstrate they have the relevant experience to design, build, operate, manage, maintain and administrate a district heating scheme and 2) that they have the financial resources to invest in the initial scheme and to maintain delivery of a community heating scheme for a period of 25 years..." ? The information you provided in your letter to the John O'Groat seems to confirm that Ignis Energy Ltd had not done this work before (criteria number 1), and had no funding (criteria number 2).
2 - You indicated in your letter to the John O'Groat Journal that Ignis Energy Ltd "...are supported by Ludgate Environmental Fund..". Can you confirm what you mean by "supported"? I have checked with Ludgate Environment Fund and they have confirmed that Ignis Energy Ltd is not a company in which they invest. Therefore what 'support' was in place to Ignis Energy Ltd that you considered at the time of the announcement of preferred bidder on 22nd December 2010 ?
3 - You also indicate in your letter to the John O'Groat Journal that Craig Ibbetson and John Chappell are key individuals to awarding the contract to Ignis Energy Ltd. However, at the time of the announcement of preferred bidder on 22nd December 2010, neither of these people were officers of the company - they had their appointments terminated in April 2010. Can you therefore confirm what relevant experience Ignis Energy Ltd had at the time of announcing them as preferred bidder in the absence of these seemingly key individuals ?
4 - During the week of 11th April 2011 canvassers came to the door of a number, if not all, of the householders connected to the scheme with the aim of getting them to sign the contract. Can you please inform us:
a) was the Council aware of this exercise
b) who did these canvassers represent
c) who were they employed by
d) did the Council agree to this approach
e) who paid for this exercise
f) why some householders were told that if they did not sign up to the new contract by the end of the week that their Housing Association landlord would consider evicting them ?
5 - In March 2011 a planning application was made by Craig Ibbetson to extend a district heating system in Wick. Can you confirm:
a) is this application to extend the CHaP system
b) why this application is being considered in the name of someone who does not own or operate the existing system
c) why, as reported in the Caithness Courier quoting a spokesman for Highland Council's planning office in Wick, that this application will be dealt with under delegated powers rather than go before a committee ?
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3 -You also indicate in your letter to the John O'Groat Journal that Craig Ibbetson and John Chappell are key individuals to awarding the contract to Ignis Energy Ltd. However, at the time of the announcement of preferred bidder on 22nd December 2010, neither of these people were officers of the company - they had their appointments terminated in April 2010. Can you therefore confirm what relevant experience Ignis Energy Ltd had at the time of announcing them as preferred bidder in the absence of these seemingly key individuals ?
Has anybody found out why this pairs appointments were terminated
xva Heard anything from the council yet ?
Better Out Than In
10-May-11, 14:02
This is none of my business as I don't live in Wick but it sounds to me that the householders should form an association and appoint a spokeperson authorised to communicate and negotiate on behalf of everyone. This can be done formally with a written agreement that is then published in local newspaper and displayed publically. The spokeperson need not be authorised to act on behalf of householders (such as enter into a contract) but could negoiate draft responses to be ratified by the householders. Once set up the council and contractor should then be informed and instructed to address all communications via this individual. It is quite normal practice in a contract to appoint a nominated contact and as individuals you are in effect in contract with council.
This association needs to communicate with the householders properly and needs to keep communications with the council and contractors very formal. Any meetings should be minuted and the minutes need to be dated and signed by both parties. The rest should be written communication. Using a public forum would not count as written - it would need to be letter or private e-mail with a protected private log on.
You will need to decide whether you want to act on a representative view (say a quorum) which is easiest or whether 100% agreement is needed for each action.
To protect that individual you will need to include a statement in the written agreement declaring that they have no liabilities.
For some councils in the UK where such an interest group has been set up then representatives are invited to attend council subject meetings and may even be invited to form part of the tender assessment group.
On the technical side bio-mass energy systems are notoriously difficult to engineer and there are many failed schemes. Just because a particular piece of technology works at one place does not mean it will function elsewhere. It depends on many factors including the physical condition and repeatability of that condition of the feed stock - size, weight, water content, shape, contaminants etc. There are experienced engineering consultants who make a living out of assessing technology selections and carry out due diligence analysis of bio-mass systems. Similarly there are professional organisations who carry out due diligence of contractors (financial and technical) prior to selection. For what is invested in the scheme and the impact on residents of the wrong selection I am surprised the council has not included professional help like this.
Stack Rock
13-May-11, 18:37
According to the council web-site the plug has been pulled on this scheme. Users involved were informed by letter to-day and alternative heating will be installed for them.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/news/newsreleases/2011/May/2011-05-13-01.htm
xva Heard anything from the council yet ?
We've ALL now heard from the Council. But the Council haven't heard the last of it.
southerner
09-May-12, 10:52
http://www.ludgateenvironmental.com/news-item?item=971107138103247
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