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Have just been reading in the Groat about the two guys who have picked up a life ban from the pubs in Caithness. I'm perplexed though about how the bar owners are going to police this?!?!
Although most of the bar staff/owners in Thurso may be aware of the individuals concerned, I'm sure that they could walk into any establishment in Wick unchallenged unless the pubs are all issued with mugshots of the offenders.
Has the Pubwatch committee got anything in place to address this?
In Macduff they simply have a list pinned up in each pub with the offenders names and how long they are banned for, but at the end of the day these individuals can now find something better to do with their time and save themselves a fortune.Who is really being punished?
What I mean is how do staff, outwith the town where the guys were banned, know what these people look like? They don't ask your name when you order a pint so a list of names is useless. The Pubwatch scheme is a brilliant idea but I would hate for it to fail because it hasn't been thought through properly.
Are there no publicans or bar staff out there who know how it works?
changilass
23-Jan-11, 22:41
The only pub watch I have seen in action was in Yorkshire.
They have a board in all the pubs with names and photos on so everyone can see who is banned.
The ones they don't have pics of, there is normally someone with a grudge who is willing to point them out lol.
MusicWicker
23-Jan-11, 23:43
There are photographs circulated to those who need to see them.
from what i understood.. its not just pubs but any licensed premises.. so would that not be shops ect... that sold alcohol?
Pub watch is good in Manchester. To get into a pub/club you have to have photo ID and they scan the picture, it then recognises if you are banned. Works a treat! Very little trouble on a night out now :)
Coop & Tesco are also involved in pubwatch so they are also barred from purchasing alcohol from these premises. There are supposed to be photographs circulated to all the premises in pubwatch to show who is barred.
changilass
24-Jan-11, 13:58
Don't like the idea of having to carry an ID card to get into a pub, what about visitors to the area that don't know the rules or don't have ID on them?
Its also one step away from national ID cards.
Don't like the idea of having to carry an ID card to get into a pub, what about visitors to the area that don't know the rules or don't have ID on them?
Its also one step away from national ID cards.
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. It also stops people who look young having the embarrassment of being turned away - it can be a bit embarrassing to be asked for ID at 32 :). It is better than thugs being allowed into the places and creates a nice environment to socialise in. I believe it is right - if you want access to alohol, you should prove that you are a) of age and b) not going to display antisocial tendencies with its consumption.
changilass
24-Jan-11, 15:05
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
This is always used when folks want to bring in ID cards, but what about the risks of someone getting your details?
To my mind its too big a risk just to get a voddie, I would rather stay home.
You didn't address the point about visitors to the area, or are you just suggesting that its rolled out throughout the UK?
I usually have my driving licence with me when Im away in the UK, if further afield I have my passport too!
Both are valid for photo id.
Think the id cards have less personal info on them than either of them.
Metalattakk
24-Jan-11, 15:27
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
I bet your windows have blinds/curtains though.
thats what i was thinking.. if you have a licence then you have a photo id.. its not a big deal..
it shows your name age and sex i think. most facebook pages show the same thing
Think my Tesco clubcard could tell you more about me than either of them....
If you could get into my account!
Its got my name, address, DOB and my spending habits....
ive seen your spending habits *laughs* you have a hello kitty fetish admit it!
You didn't address the point about visitors to the area, or are you just suggesting that its rolled out throughout the UK?
My point is that it is in use in a lot of the country already. Every major city has the scheme...
Edit - and Metalattakk - I don't need curtains. I'm not over looked on any side :)
Edit 2 - except by the neddies ;)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs255.snc1/10220_187022285780_745240780_4374982_7821003_n.jpg
changilass
24-Jan-11, 15:53
Was out in Newcastle just after Christmas, Leeds in October, Edinburgh on a regular basis and never been asked for ID afore getting a drink, so maybe not as widespread as you think.
My point is that it is in use in a lot of the country already. Every major city has the scheme...
I live and drink in Edinburgh and have not come across any such scheme, not sure if Pubwatch could work in a city, too many pubs.
Gol...maybe you drink at the right sort of pubs, that dont attract the lowlifes looking for trouble or frequent the nightclubs?
Gol...maybe you drink at the right sort of pubs, that dont attract the lowlifes looking for trouble or frequent the nightclubs?
You would be surprised Dadie about the pubs I frequent, but my knowledge of nightclubs comes from my sons and their daughters.
Gol...maybe you drink at the right sort of pubs, that dont attract the lowlifes looking for trouble or frequent the nightclubs?
You may be looking at it the wrong way Dadie... The pubs that have the Pubwatch scheme are the ones that you would actually want to go in - the lowlifes go to any without it ;)
Are there any pubs in Thurso who arent on it?
andrew.bowles30
29-Jan-11, 16:49
most of your life you are asked to ID your self now in shops/pubs and so on so if you dont have anything to hide what is the problem,companys can get your info any time they want there is no such thing as privacy any more the gov are watching you all the time i carry my driving lic and pastport we all have a id card im some way
most of your life you are asked to ID your self now in shops/pubs and so on so if you dont have anything to hide what is the problem,companys can get your info any time they want there is no such thing as privacy any more the gov are watching you all the time i carry my driving lic and pastport we all have a id card im some way
Going off the thread a bit. If it ever became compulsory to carry ID it would also be compulsory to show it to an authorised individual or entity. That then brings up an offence of not producing or carrying ID when required. You could then presumably be prosecuted, for not doing something.
There was an update in the Groat yesterday which said that they wouldn't be able to make the names of those who are barred public which is fair enough. However, if they don't have a rogues gallery in every participating pub/club etc. no one is going to be able to identify the bad boys and the scheme falls on its backside. As I asked in my OP, how are they going to police it?
Maybe some sort of private web-based system with details on the bans, they could include photos etc that perhaps couldn't be put in the paper or would take up too much space if they were.
...If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear...
Seriously I can't believe you made that statement, seemingly devoid of irony. Do you lock your doors, do you give your banking details out to everyone.
There was an update in the Groat yesterday which said that they wouldn't be able to make the names of those who are barred public which is fair enough. However, if they don't have a rogues gallery in every participating pub/club etc. no one is going to be able to identify the bad boys and the scheme falls on its backside. As I asked in my OP, how are they going to police it?
Here the names of everyone banned are either pinned to the door or in some other prominent position where everyone can see them. Mugshots are kept behind the bar and for barstaffs eyes only.
Have just been reading in the Groat about the two guys who have picked up a life ban from the pubs in Caithness. I'm perplexed though about how the bar owners are going to police this?!?!
Although most of the bar staff/owners in Thurso may be aware of the individuals concerned, I'm sure that they could walk into any establishment in Wick unchallenged unless the pubs are all issued with mugshots of the offenders.
Has the Pubwatch committee got anything in place to address this?
This page should help answer some questions:-
http://www.nationalpubwatch.org.uk/faqs.htm
How would you get a person's photo to pin it behind the bar up for staff to identify you?
"Excuse me, sir. We're about to ban you from this pub and all other licensed premises in the county. Please stand still so I can get a decent picture of you."
would the police be part of the pub watch and distribute the pics?
dont know just wondering
would the police be part of the pub watch and distribute the pics?
dont know just wondering
The link I provided answers your and gollach's questions, the relevant section is quoted below:-
"Many pubwatches have an agreed protocol with the local police service that enables the police to provide photos of banned persons, if they have them, to the watch for use by the members to brief staff on banned people. In such cases the protocol sets out the strict conditions of use which include no public display and controlled use for staff only and the photo must be returned once the ban is finished."
The link I provided answers your and gollach's questions, the relevant section is quoted below:-
"Many pubwatches have an agreed protocol with the local police service that enables the police to provide photos of banned persons, if they have them, to the watch for use by the members to brief staff on banned people. In such cases the protocol sets out the strict conditions of use which include no public display and controlled use for staff only and the photo must be returned once the ban is finished."
Are they doing this in Caithness?
Are they doing this in Caithness
I have been in one Caithness bar (on two occasions) in the last four years, so I couldn't tell you.
Walter Ego
30-Jan-11, 01:49
There was an update in the Groat yesterday which said that they wouldn't be able to make the names of those who are barred public which is fair enough. However, if they don't have a rogues gallery in every participating pub/club etc. no one is going to be able to identify the bad boys and the scheme falls on its backside. As I asked in my OP, how are they going to police it?
Oh, for crying out loud.
Whats wrong with you gutless lumps?
Get them pointed out, get a few 'handy' lads to beat the shite out of them.
Job done.
Next.
The link I provided answers your and gollach's questions, the relevant section is quoted below:-
"Many pubwatches have an agreed protocol with the local police service that enables the police to provide photos of banned persons, if they have them, to the watch for use by the members to brief staff on banned people. In such cases the protocol sets out the strict conditions of use which include no public display and controlled use for staff only and the photo must be returned once the ban is finished."
'Controlled use for staff only' would lead me to believe that no member of staff or Publican is even allowed to tell any customer the name of anyone that is banned under the Pubwatch scheme. Seeing as you're the man with all the answers, maybe you could clarify that.
For al those claiming 'how on earth could it work?' - it works in big cities already.
For al those claiming 'how on earth could it work?' - it works in big cities already.
I don't think anyone is "claiming 'how on earth could it work?' ", I simply asked how they are going to do this LOCALLY given that the Wick bar staff won't know those barred in Thurso and vice versa unless there are photos of those who have been barred. To date no one has come up with the definitive answer so either there are no Caithness bar owners/staff members who use the Org and care to reply or else they haven't figured out how to enforce the ban.
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