View Full Version : C.A.S.S.T. search dogs
You may not know but the search dog unit C.A.S.S. was contacted by Grampian Police Force to assist in a search for a missing person last week. If they and Strath Clyde Police force can use this valuable search unit why is it that Highlands and Islands Police will not.
Metalattakk
18-Jan-11, 13:01
I have my suspicions that you are fully aware of the reasons.
If you're not, well here probably isn't the best place to find out. Maybe try calling Northern Constabulary and ask them.
Go on, I dare you.
Northern Constabulary would definately be the best place to get the answer to this! In fact it is the ONLY place to get the answer.
Why is it that those CASST people are always so bitter that Nothern Constabulary wont use them for their search and rescue operations? I am sure they have their good reasons why not to do so?
SunnyChick
19-Jan-11, 14:34
Having witnessed CASST in action on several occasions over the years, I find it very difficult to understand why Northern Constabulary have not called upon them!
CASST are a highly trained and experienced group of PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HELP! The skills of their team, 2 and 4 legged members alike, really are impressive.
If someone I loved were to go missing (heaven forbid), then I would call CASST!!
Metalattakk
19-Jan-11, 15:37
Having witnessed CASST in action on several occasions over the years, I find it very difficult to understand why Northern Constabulary have not called upon them!
CASST are a highly trained and experienced group of PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HELP! The skills of their team, 2 and 4 legged members alike, really are impressive.
If someone I loved were to go missing (heaven forbid), then I would call CASST!!
And you wonder why the Police don't want anything to do with them? Posts like these surely don't help your cause.
O wad some Power the gift tae gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
SunnyChick
19-Jan-11, 16:00
And you wonder why the Police don't want anything to do with them? Posts like these surely don't help your cause.
Can I just say that I am not a member of CASST, so I'm not out to "help my cause" as you suggest. My opinion is honest and unbiased. I say it as I see it!
I have seen them train, and for what it is worth, I think they would be a vaulable asset to any group, organisation or government body who needed to locate a missing person!
Anyway, Mr Metlattakk - Who bit your ar*e?
If someone I loved were to go missing (heaven forbid), then I would call CASST!![/QUOTE]
I think you would be wise to call the police and let them handle the search!
changilass
19-Jan-11, 17:41
I'd call both, the more folks looking, the higher chance of someone being found.
Metalattakk
19-Jan-11, 17:42
Can I just say that I am not a member of CASST, so I'm not out to "help my cause" as you suggest. My opinion is honest and unbiased. I say it as I see it!
I have seen them train, and for what it is worth, I think they would be a vaulable asset to any group, organisation or government body who needed to locate a missing person!
Anyway, Mr Metlattakk - Who bit your ar*e?
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. ;)
SunnyChick
19-Jan-11, 18:21
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. ;)
Naw, not at all hon :lol:
Anyway, I'm not a complete nugget (:roll:), obviously I would call the police too as I also agree that more folks working together and searching, the chances of a happy end result would be significantly higher?
Not this one again! can we not give it a rest. This can only be sorted out between C.A.S.S.T. and the Police so leave it to them!!!!!.
changilass
19-Jan-11, 20:32
Its a valid question though, why are they not using a locally available service?
If others were refusing to use them too, then you would have to question the service, but as others are prepared to use them, why not the local police?
Can't say I have seen loads of posts on this issue, Kirdon, so suggesting giving it a rest, doesn't explain things to those of us who don't know as much detail as you seem to.
Maybe someone could give us some details behind this situation.
Agree changi, I'd also like to know what lies behind this and please people don't be so nasty it is a legitimate question.
You may not know but the search dog unit C.A.S.S. was contacted by Grampian Police Force to assist in a search for a missing person last week. If they and Strath Clyde Police force can use this valuable search unit why is it that Highlands and Islands Police will not.
I only wanted to draw people’s attention that Northern Constabulary were not using the best resources in their area. I am not connected to C.A.S.S but have been carrying out a study on Search and Rescue in the United Kingdom and have been involved with SAR for thirty years or more. It is surprising what information you can find on the Internet about different organisations working together.
I came across this inactivity by North Constabulary in not using C.A.S.S. in back issues of the local papers and am rather disgusted with the attitude they take in fact to my mind the are possibly not carry out their DUTY OF CARE to missing persons. In any rescue especially in winter the first hour is the most vital. Yet Northern Constabulary will call out the British Red Cross who are not a recognised SAR unit they also take two hours to arrive in Caithness. Yet the Northern Constabulary disregard an Organization that is recognised by several Police Forces and the Fire Brigade and is in the local area. So Stingray you others need to re-evaluate your thinking as to regards what units is the best units to use.
Metalattakk
20-Jan-11, 00:18
So Oldman, what did Northern Constabulary say when you 'phoned them about this? Or are you too scared to try to find out the reasons?
David Banks
20-Jan-11, 04:22
I'm getting nowhere with google finding out about CASS or CASST.
Who / what are they ?
And, is it a money making organisation, or charitable / NGO ?
Thanks
canadagirl
20-Jan-11, 05:33
Seems to be Caithness & Sutherland Search Team now I must delve into why they can't use them as seems to be a mystery to us uninitiated....
northener
20-Jan-11, 09:21
I'll just add my two penno'th in the interest of balance.
When this subject reared it's head last year ( I can't be arsed to search for it and provide a link), I decided to contact Northern Constabulary via their website asking for some feedback regarding this situation.
To their credit, Chief Inspector Matthew Reiss tried to contact me via phone on a number of occasions to discuss the matter. Unfortunately, due to Sod's Law, he always managed to call when I was away from my mobile or in an area of bad reception. He left a message every time so I knew that he had called. His number was withheld (understandably) so I had no facility to call him back.
So I'm no wiser.:Razz
I'm not taking sides in this, just pointing out that clarification may be possible if the questions are directed at those in a position to answer with some authority.
I only wanted to draw people’s attention that Northern Constabulary were not using the best resources in their area. I am not connected to C.A.S.S but have been carrying out a study on Search and Rescue in the United Kingdom and have been involved with SAR for thirty years or more. It is surprising what information you can find on the Internet about different organisations working together.
I came across this inactivity by North Constabulary in not using C.A.S.S. in back issues of the local papers and am rather disgusted with the attitude they take in fact to my mind the are possibly not carry out their DUTY OF CARE to missing persons. In any rescue especially in winter the first hour is the most vital. Yet Northern Constabulary will call out the British Red Cross who are not a recognised SAR unit they also take two hours to arrive in Caithness. Yet the Northern Constabulary disregard an Organization that is recognised by several Police Forces and the Fire Brigade and is in the local area. So Stingray you others need to re-evaluate your thinking as to regards what units is the best units to use.
Obviously you dont think very highly of other SAR groups then? As for my evaluation of which units are best or not.... I leave it to the professionals of Northern Constabulary to decide which group to call in or not
orkneycadian
20-Jan-11, 13:18
I guess its the same as a number of groups "playing" at being an emergency service we have seen over here.....
For a while, although it seems to have fallen out of favour now, the radio hams would parade around public events (the annual horse riding round the town being one example), in case someone needed to call for help and there was a simultaneous failure of all the mobile phone networks, payphones, nearby residential phones and the radio systems of the emergency services. Of course there never was, so I think they got fed up of it.
Then we have someone who runs about in a second hand ambulance, with just enough of the original livery covered over / re-painted to ensure they don't get formally charged with purporting to be a genuine ambulance. They turn up at all sorts of public events too to dispense first aid, but none that probbaly couldn't be done from a first aid kit in the back of a car, as opoosed to a full sized (albeit rusty) ambulance, complete with blue lights.
Oddly enough, whenever there have been any incidents of note in Orkney, neither the above groups have been called upon by the official emergency services, as the groups hope they might. I guess the Caithness dog walking club fall into the same category!
I cant see thats obvious at all stingray.
David Banks
20-Jan-11, 17:52
Seems to be Caithness & Sutherland Search Team now I must delve into why they can't use them as seems to be a mystery to us uninitiated....
Thanks Canada Girl.
Found them.
They are a charitable organisation, and I suspect the members are volunteers.
They have been "around" since 2003, so may still be few in numbers, but appear to be committed to dog-assisted search operations, and have a working training plan.
Without knowing anything else, I do not see why the northern constabulary would not seek their assistance on occasions - although the northern constabulary should have some such capability of their own, and should use CASS as assistance - more boots (and noses) on the ground.
Has CASS had any bad press that would suggest they are e.g.: too inexperienced or insufficiently trained ?
Its a valid question though, why are they not using a locally available service?
If others were refusing to use them too, then you would have to question the service, but as others are prepared to use them, why not the local police?
Can't say I have seen loads of posts on this issue, Kirdon, so suggesting giving it a rest, doesn't explain things to those of us who don't know as much detail as you seem to.
Maybe someone could give us some details behind this situation.
Don't know very much but have seen this in the local press and on the "org" on numerous ocasions and the questions are never answered in either, as I stated this would be left up to those involved. If you want to know more details look back in the posts and possibly pm "Veekay" as at the time (if i remember correctly) had something to do with the search teams. My apoligies to Veekay if you don't still have anything to do with them.
orkneycadian
21-Jan-11, 14:07
Without knowing anything else, I do not see why the northern constabulary would not seek their assistance on occasions - although the northern constabulary should have some such capability of their own, and should use CASS as assistance - more boots (and noses) on the ground.
In these days of litigation? Your having a laff aint ya?
You can just picture it. Emergency Services call on amateur help, amateurs get traumatised by the experience and get signed off work for life with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, emergency service get sued because it was them who asked the amateur to look for the "traumatic find".
Either that or amateurs fall in a hole and break legs, emergency service gets sued because they asked them to look there.
Its like expecting first aiders to come into hospitals to help surgeons with operations, someone who has done a 1 day fire extinguisher course getting called in to help the fire brigade with a house fire or "private detectives" to come and survey a murder scene.
In these days of litigation? Your having a laff aint ya?
You can just picture it. Emergency Services call on amateur help, amateurs get traumatised by the experience and get signed off work for life with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, emergency service get sued because it was them who asked the amateur to look for the "traumatic find".
Either that or amateurs fall in a hole and break legs, emergency service gets sued because they asked them to look there.
Its like expecting first aiders to come into hospitals to help surgeons with operations, someone who has done a 1 day fire extinguisher course getting called in to help the fire brigade with a house fire or "private detectives" to come and survey a murder scene.
Never thought I'd say this lol - but I agree with you there...
orkneycadian
21-Jan-11, 18:33
Can't see the emergency services too willingly getting folk enveagled in anything that could present a liability to them. Searching the streets for a lost kitten or a purse maybe, searching open country for a missing person, less likely. OK, so there may be some examples of the latter, but I am sure when the emergency service in question steps back and thinks of the liability they incurred, they may not be so keen to repeat it.
There were a group of divers over here that were similarly miffed that they do not get called in to help retrieve lost divers from wrecks in the flow. It gets left to the Navy, but it doesn't stop the local "Dive Rescue Group" getting upset that they don't get the call, and have to stay at the other side of the "Police line - Do not cross"
Dog-eared
21-Jan-11, 20:16
On the CASS website http://www.casst.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=27 it looks like theyr'e qualified by NUSARDG-
CASST is a member of the National Urban Search and Rescue Dog Group (Scotland). NUSARDG Scotland lay down the guidelines on training and assessment standards that we must meet. These standards were originally established by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister in conjunction with Her Majesties Fire Service Inspectorate.These standards and our skills meant that we were one of the two Scottish teams deployed by Strathclyde Fire and Rescue Service at the Stockline Disaster in Glasgow.
I have a brilliant pair of binoculars and wish to offer my services to every non event /drama/ I wish I could be important/ situation in Caithness. I have a wife who also has a pair of binoculars and we are called C.A.S.B.S.T (Caithness and Sutherland Binocular Search Team).
I follow Fire Engines and get aroused when I hear an Ambulance so am suitably qualified to be a blue light hero.
I am also available to give up my (very valuable) free time to demonstate my skills at public events.
canadagirl
21-Jan-11, 23:52
To me this is so similar to the ambulance driver not responding thread. In this part of Canada we have a great many formal and informal volunteers for search and rescue, when something happens everyone shows up and offers their help. It's especially valuable in rural areas where local knowledge is invaluable, and the distances are huge. I wonder if the problem is with the asking, if a group is formally asked then perhaps that is where the liability issue comes in. If they volunteer themselves there wouldn't be the same issue. We have all kinds of emergency response groups as well as local people who turn up with boats, dogs, food for the troops and all work together but again they don't get asked they just turn out. Perhaps the CASST should just turn out. Or would that not fly?
Metalattakk
22-Jan-11, 02:06
To me this is so similar to the ambulance driver not responding thread. In this part of Canada we have a great many formal and informal volunteers for search and rescue, when something happens everyone shows up and offers their help. It's especially valuable in rural areas where local knowledge is invaluable, and the distances are huge. I wonder if the problem is with the asking, if a group is formally asked then perhaps that is where the liability issue comes in. If they volunteer themselves there wouldn't be the same issue. We have all kinds of emergency response groups as well as local people who turn up with boats, dogs, food for the troops and all work together but again they don't get asked they just turn out. Perhaps the CASST should just turn out. Or would that not fly?
What happens when they mindlessly trample over vital evidence and compromise the investigation?
canadagirl
22-Jan-11, 04:32
Good question. Everybody that shows up to a search and rescue scene is directed by whoever is in charge whether that is police fire or coast guard. We recently had a fellow go missing, had left his dog in car near the beach. There are thousands of acres of thick bush and miles of coast and we have very few paid emergency personnel. A great many victims are never found so there is no closure. We'd rather have a contaminated crime scene than a body never found. My point was to see what the difference is in the two countries, and why a seemingly trained group cannot be used. I'm thinking whoever does the asking is liable, surely it wouldn't be that they're possessive of their "turf"....
Aaldtimer
22-Jan-11, 04:41
From what I remember of the previous discussion it all boiled down to "insurance".
i may be totally wrong there of course...I plead Aaldtimer's disease!:(
You may not know but the search dog unit C.A.S.S. was contacted by Grampian Police Force to assist in a search for a missing person last week. If they and Strath Clyde Police force can use this valuable search unit why is it that Highlands and Islands Police will not.
Was the person found as a direct result from c.a.s.s ?
Duncansby
22-Jan-11, 11:22
CASST is a member of the National Urban Search and Rescue Dog Group (Scotland).
But does that qualification give them the necessary skills and knowledge to conduct searches over remote hill and coastline?
Dog-eared
22-Jan-11, 14:26
But does that qualification give them the necessary skills and knowledge to conduct searches over remote hill and coastline?
I don't know what the NUSRDG requirements are. Their website seems to have closed.
orkneycadian
22-Jan-11, 14:47
[lol] The website for the search and rescue group cant be found? [lol]
I note the word "Urban" in the groups name. As Duncansby points out, thats maybe not very well suited for remote hill and coastline.
There certainly seems a lot of innuendo, comments for and against and a whole lot of confusion.. mention of earlier threads ref CASS might shed light?. But I for one am at a complete loss.. right, can anyone answer why Northern Constabulary do not use them? And no I am not ringing the coppers - if anyone has the details, put 'em on this thread? :confused
Duncansby
22-Jan-11, 15:31
I'm speculating here but it seems that the work they have done for other forces has been in built up areas. As their qualification seems to be urban search and rescue and the majority of search and rescue operations in Caithness are over moorland or along coasts the reason they are not used here is maybe because they don't have the necessary training for this type of search.
[lol] The website for the search and rescue group cant be found? [lol]
I note the word "Urban" in the groups name. As Duncansby points out, thats maybe not very well suited for remote hill and coastline.
your right i cant find there website either but it shouldnt be a case of northern constabulary have to give reason why they wont use them its more a case of C.A.S.S to prove that they have a good service to offer that will produce good results
We still don't have 'the' reason why Northern Constabulary don't/won't use them, does that mean only they know or is no-one brave enough to say? I think canadagirl has very valid points & questions. As for contaminating the scene...how do they propose to find anyone if they don't know which direction the person has taken? Surely if the dogs are sent in first there shouldn't be contamination that would present any problems, also as canadagirl says someone takes charge and tells everyone which direction to go in....first though as mentioned is that not where the dogs excel by going in BEFORE???? Does anyone know the reason?
PS forgot to add...these volunteers are generaly NOT stupid and NOT playing it's taken very seriously and some of the senarios put forward are IMHO bliddy stupid to say the least, get serious..they're trying to help save a life for heavens sake..........No I'm not a member, don't know any of them, but do admire them for trying to help their fellow man/woman, not like some who think it's ok to cast aspersions. Rant over for now.[disgust]:roll:
Metalattakk
22-Jan-11, 16:18
We still don't have 'the' reason why Northern Constabulary don't/won't use them, does that mean only they know or is no-one brave enough to say?
C.A.S.S.T. know why Northern won't use them. Why don't they tell us the reasons?
C.A.S.S.T. know why Northern won't use them. Why don't they tell us the reasons?
Doesn't seem any movement from that area, if you know metalattakk, can't you tell us?
Metalattakk
22-Jan-11, 17:31
Doesn't seem any movement from that area, if you know metalattakk, can't you tell us?
If I knew anything I'd be inclined to say that it's nobody's business but the parties concerned.
If I knew anything I'd be inclined to say that it's nobody's business but the parties concerned.
OK, don't shoot the messenger, but considering your not insignificant number of postings on this, is it fair to consider that you are as much in the dark on this as the rest of us?
#2 I have my suspicions that you are fully aware of the reasons.
#16 So Oldman, what did Northern Constabulary say when you 'phoned them about this? Or are you too scared to try to find out the reasons?
#31 What happens when they mindlessly trample over vital evidence and compromise the investigation?
#43 C.A.S.S.T. know why Northern won't use them. Why don't they tell us the reasons?
Metalattakk
22-Jan-11, 18:27
It's fairly easy to come to my conclusions if you read what has and has not been written.
CASST will have been told by Northern Constabulary why they are not being used. Why would it be unfair to assume otherwise? Given that, then the question "Why are CASST not telling us?" has to be asked. The fact that CASST are keeping deathly quiet on this leads me to believe they know exactly what the reasons are.
Further to that, asking such questions as "Why are Northern Constabulary not using CASST?" is probably not a good idea on a public forum because the only two parties who can answer that are the parties concerned. Speak to them and see what they say. For the record, I think they would both say "None of your business".
Now it doesn't take rocket science to come to these conclusions.
And as I said, I suspect the OP is a member of CASST, or closely involved. So the next question is "What exactly are they trying to achieve by posting this here?"
Another question I'd like answered is: Why do CASST publish details of the searches they've been unsuccessfully involved in on their website? Which other serious, professional search team does this?
This gives a pretty big hint as to why Northern Constabulary might not want to be involved with them, don't you think?
You're right though. I'm as much in the dark as the rest of you. I just like to turn the light on sometimes. Perhaps more people should try it.
Thanks for that Metalattakk - makes very sensible reading, and yes I'm wondering too why all the deathly silence here. I've just read Oldman's post#3 whereby he says he is not connected with C.A.S.S, but adds "I have been carrying out a study on Search and Rescue in the United Kingdom and have been involved with SAR for thirty years or more" he also states "am rather disgusted with the attitude they [Northern Constabulary] take"
It certainly begs the question of why a person involved in SAR for 30 years and who complains about this inaction by the Police would not investigate the reasons.?
You started this tread Oldman, you must expect curiosity.
As I stated I have been researching rescue services and was concerned after finding out through the papers and rescue units web sites that a highly trained dog search unit was not being used to assist Northern Constabulary with searches.
It is surprising what comes out of the woodwork when a simple question is brought to the attention of the public. Like the comments make by Metalattakk, Stingray, and Eddie, who I expect know nothing about search and rescue.
Let me first state that I believe that any one going missing has certain HUMAN RIGHTS in that any resource such as Coastguard, RNLI and other search rescue units should be called out and those being nearest should be used, as first hour is vital as the missing person could be injured.
Now, let me mention litigation, which was brought, all rescue units should have public liability insurance and I am sure that CASST has. If any units have not then they should not be used. However occasional members of the public do help when a search is on for missing children are you going to refuse their help EDDIE.
I mentioned that the RED CROSS had been used on several occasions I wonder if their Charity status is being compromised as their charter states that the RED CROSS is for giving assistance and comfort in times of major incidents. Nowhere in their charter does it say that they are a search and rescue unit. If they are used for this then does their insurance cover it.
Oldman the difference between casst assisting with a search and rescue and a member of the public is simple casst is doing it to make profit the member of public is volunteering because there genuenely concered about the missing person and you can really stop someone that wants to go out and search for someone in there own time its not as if there breaking the law they can only be stopped if an area has been closed to the public?
You are right about one thing i dont no anything about search and rescue but the emergency services do there proffesionals thats who i trust
If casst had thought up this business plan about 100 years ago i would have said it was a really good idea but with all the high tech thermal image system and helicopter and proffesionals and all the rest of it there isnt really a need for casst sorry
Not this one again! can we not give it a rest. This can only be sorted out between C.A.S.S.T. and the Police so leave it to them!!!!!.
I hate to say I told you so BUT!!!!!
Metalattakk
23-Jan-11, 01:08
Oldman, my very first response to you in this thread was to advise you to give Northern Constabulary a phone call. What did they say when you called?
My second bit of advice to you now, is this: Give CASST a phone call, and ask them what's going on.
Jebus H. Corbett, this shouldn't be such a difficult question to get an answer for. You just have to figure out who has the answers, and bloody well ask them instead of fannying about on public forums.
Unless, of course, you have an agenda that you're looking to push. . .
Oldman, my very first response to you in this thread was to advise you to give Northern Constabulary a phone call. What did they say when you called?
My second bit of advice to you now, is this: Give CASST a phone call, and ask them what's going on.
Jebus H. Corbett, this shouldn't be such a difficult question to get an answer for. You just have to figure out who has the answers, and bloody well ask them instead of fannying about on public forums.
Unless, of course, you have an agenda that you're looking to push. . .Lol MA, that's such a good post but they have stuck their heads so far above the parapet that it was like firing willow branches at wizards covered in superglue. :lol:
I looked at the CASST website. Is it part of a Blue Peter fundraising exercise for bored pensioners east of Dunnet Head? It reminds me of when I was in the Brownies and we used to work out how we would rescue kittens stuck up trees or help our grannies cross Olrig Street with their shopping.
I cannot phone anyone as I am 5000 miles away and it would cost a fortune to do it. Like to point out in my searches of the web sites nearly all search and rescue teams are volunteers under and umbrella of a government or a charity case closed Eddie as for you Metalattakk why dont you phone you are nearer than me.
You may not know but the search dog unit C.A.S.S. was contacted by Grampian Police Force to assist in a search for a missing person last week. If they and Strath Clyde Police force can use this valuable search unit why is it that Highlands and Islands Police will not.
I live in caithness and never heard about this you are 5000 miles away and did? can you enlighten me on how? I seem to stuggle keeping up with the news
canadagirl
23-Jan-11, 23:30
I cannot phone anyone as I am 5000 miles away and it would cost a fortune to do it. Like to point out in my searches of the web sites nearly all search and rescue teams are volunteers under and umbrella of a government or a charity case closed Eddie as for you Metalattakk why dont you phone you are nearer than me.
Don't know how far away I am but I don't think it could be much farther, costs me about $1.50 to talk to thurso for a half hour during the day. Give me the number and I will call! Yeesh.
Metalattakk
24-Jan-11, 00:04
</snip> as for you Metalattakk why dont you phone you are nearer than me.
I don't need to 'phone, as I'm perfectly happy with the decisions made by Northern Constabulary, whatever their reasoning. Therefore I don't need to know. Why do you need to know? What's your agenda?
Sheesh, these amateur internet sticky-beaks investigators are tiresome, eh? http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z55/Metalattakk/f_doh.gif
I think that when the northern constabluary cant even find a murder weapon in a murder victims house (yet the victims family can!) then they might need as much help as possible when searching for a missing person!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11642981
I cant believe what stick CASST are getting on here! I dont have anything to do with them but I am sure as hell if a family member of mine went missing I would want every man and his dog (excuse the pun) looking for them! Can any of you honestly say that if your child went missing on the moors and CASST offered to help look for them with their trained dogs you would say no?? I wouldnt - whether the Northern Constabluary agreed or not!
I'm open minded, just interested, see their site: http://www.casst.org.uk/ (http://www.casst.org.uk/) mentions Northern Constabulary;
Sunday, 19 September 2010 ."On Saturday members of the team set up a fundraising stall in the grounds of Wick Police Station along with many other local groups. CASST are delighted to say that thanks to the generosity of the general public we raised £140 that afternoon. CASST will be supporting Northern Constabulary's fundraising for the Police Dependants Trust by giving 50% of what we raised to Chief Inspector Reiss to pass on to the trust. Again a massive thank you to all who came out on that event it was great fun."
"CASST continue to train and prepare to serve our community if necessary and are now recognised as a deployable resource in our own right and work in partnership with Highlands and Islands Fire and Rescue Service."
Bottom line; still no idea what this thread is really all about
orkneycadian
24-Jan-11, 11:33
I cant believe what stick CASST are getting on here!
Och this is nothing! Have you seen the written abuse that the innocent folk from Portgower get on here? 40 pages and counting! It paves the way for any other type of abuse though!
I havent really read much of the Portgower thread but what I have read I thought was supposed to be quite light hearted.
In this thread people seem to be berating the genuine good efforts of others with comments like 'Is it part of a Blue Peter fundraising exercise for bored pensioners east of Dunnet Head?'!
Again I dont know much about CASST but I support anyone who volunteers their own time and effort in a bid to help others - surely they dont deserve to be belittled as with the comment I have quoted above.
With regard to why CASST are not utilised by the Northern Constabulary, as others have said, only CASST or the Police can answer this. But I do not feel it is 'none of our business', I feel the public should be made aware of the reason why what could be a valuable service that is called on by other Scottish forces, is not called upon by the Northern Constabulary....if there is a perfectly reasonable explaination then we should hear it.
orkneycadian
24-Jan-11, 14:28
Have just had a read of a small proportion of postings in the Portgower thread, and there are a lot more derogatory than you mention above!
As the thread also mentions, there are a lot of other hobby groups that could be called upon by the emergency services as well, but aren't, and they get upset too. Theres a whole raft of them here (http://www.civildefenceassociation.org.uk/page9.html), including the mythical National Urban Search and Rescue Dog Group, a group of gyrocopter enthusiasts that provide "AIR SEARCH, AIR OBSERVATION AND AIR TO GROUND IMAGERY TO THE EMERGENCY SERVICES AND OTHER AGENCIES" and the infamous radio hams who maybe once had a role to play pre mobile phones and TETRA, but now just do car park marshalling at public events.
So any one group shouldn't feel personally victimised that their services are not used. It seems there are lots of hobby groups out there that would like to get involved, but can't, presumably all for similar reasons.
To give C.A.S.S something to do they could go to Portgower and sniff out the Vampires, I think it should be safe enough cos I dont think Vampires are partial to dog's blood are they? In fact, the dogs could get in first and bite the Vampires necks, give them a taste of their own medicine so to speak!!!!
That would be much better for them than helping the police in some boring search on the moors!!!
C3......:roll:;)
ywindythesecond
25-Jan-11, 00:29
I'll just add my two penno'th in the interest of balance.
When this subject reared it's head last year ( I can't be arsed to search for it and provide a link), I decided to contact Northern Constabulary via their website asking for some feedback regarding this situation.
To their credit, Chief Inspector Matthew Reiss tried to contact me via phone on a number of occasions to discuss the matter. Unfortunately, due to Sod's Law, he always managed to call when I was away from my mobile or in an area of bad reception. He left a message every time so I knew that he had called. His number was withheld (understandably) so I had no facility to call him back.
So I'm no wiser.:Razz
I'm not taking sides in this, just pointing out that clarification may be possible if the questions are directed at those in a position to answer with some authority.
Good thinking Northener. Why not try contacting CI Reiss again on the Northern Constabulary website and asking him to leave you a number to call back on if he misses you, and you could pass on the feedback.
canadagirl
25-Jan-11, 01:52
I've sent an email to CASST regarding this issue. Haven't heard back.
Re: Portgower, there's no way anyone could honestly be offended! It is going to be the highlight of my upcoming visit, will make a mad dash to get there before dark to take pics. Some enterprising person could see a business opportunity there and revitalise the local economy! I live across the water from Port Angeles where the Twilight series was set and vampires have done wonders for them. :Razz
changilass
25-Jan-11, 02:16
Why just to CASST, why not to Northern Constabulary also?
Just enquiring in the interest of fairness?
canadagirl
25-Jan-11, 04:07
Okey dokey, I put in a call to the Northern Constabulary Headquarters and a very nice gentleman there was good enough to speak with me. He said that by all means in the event of a missing person they would use all resources available and wasn't aware of any issues regarding this. I suggest he have a peek at the org, so maybe he will come on and enlighten us further!
canadagirl
27-Jan-11, 18:14
Hi folks, an update- I've heard back from CASST. They haven't replied to media or this forum as it's not appropriate but they are in contact with the constabulary. They do have scene of crime training. And liability insurance. My personal thought on this is that if you had a loved one missing there should be nothing stopping you calling them in personally. They have offered to have me come out on a training day while I'm there, which I shall definitely do. Volunteer groups such as this can make a huge difference in any kind of disaster situation and should be commended for giving freely of their time. Living in a rural area myself I know it can and does help the community to have many people trained for emergency situations and first aid as emergency services are not usually the first person on the scene.
changilass
27-Jan-11, 18:43
Cheers canadagirl, tis a bad do when it takes someone from Canada to check into a local problem.
I think part of the problem is that there are lots of folks that actually know what the situation is, but its done in a confidential manner, so even when someone does know something they aint willing to break the confidence.
I think it would be a lot better out in the open, there would be a better chance of sotring it out.
All that is happening at the moment is folks taking sides, without having heard both sides.
orkneycadian
27-Jan-11, 18:57
They do have.... .... liability insurance.
Aye, but that that wouldn't help if PC Plod said "Here, take your dog and look over there for something" and the dog walker does and falls in a hole and breaks their neck. In that case, the liability insurance would do all it could to avoid paying out by deflecting blame on the person who instructed the walker to a dangerous location. So the walker would have to sue the police, and their liability insurer.
My personal thought on this is that if you had a loved one missing there should be nothing stopping you calling them in personally.
Exactamonto. Personally, you can do whatever you want. You can call in the dogs, the scouts or even the brownies if you think it will do good. But the topic of the thread seems to be about Northern Constabulary doing the calling (or not as the case may be!) rather than the public.
Living in a rural area myself I know it can and does help the community to have many people trained for emergency situations and first aid as emergency services are not usually the first person on the scene.
Different scenario. First aid is indeed important, but as a stop gap till the emergency services get there. Its unlikely that the dog walkers will be there before the police if both were called at the same time, unless they too have put blue lights on their cars like the "amateur ambulance drivers" we have over here!
I guess its the same as a number of groups "playing" at being an emergency service we have seen over here....!
Exactly. Most of these groups are there to serve the egotistical needs of their 'members' than the public good - there's nothing more dangerous than a bunch of over-enthusiastic amateurs who think they have a mandate. That 'Highland 4x4 Response' bunch are another lot in the same category - 'self-serving' comes before 'public-serving' in their dictionaries.
canadagirl
27-Jan-11, 19:12
I think part of the problem is that there are lots of folks that actually know what the situation is, but its done in a confidential manner, so even when someone does know something they aint willing to break the confidence.
That's exactly what it is, and they've been good enough to divulge the details and I respect their wish for discretion.
Now that most of you have had your say let me say to orkneycadian Just goes to show how much you know about using dogs to carry out searches. Some of you thing that they would trample all over evidence. The point is is to try and find a missing person after the police have carried out a preliminary
investigation. So make sure of you facts before you start deriding search and rescue dogs and there handlers. Also stingray the National Urban SAR Dog Group is attached to the FIRE service so you are saying that the FIRE service are amateurs.
stingray .
Anything can happen in the next half hour!
http://www.fab1.co.nz/Stingray_Crew.jpg
a group of gyrocopter enthusiasts that provide "AIR SEARCH, AIR OBSERVATION AND AIR TO GROUND IMAGERY TO THE EMERGENCY SERVICES AND OTHER AGENCIES" . I want to join that. What a hoot!
orkneycadian
28-Jan-11, 23:22
I see in Doanalsins Diary (Can't he spell his own name right?) that theres a kitten lost in Wick. Hopefully someone has called the dogs out and poor puss won't be lost for too long!
Duncansby
29-Jan-11, 00:30
better put the alert out to the gyrocopter blokes to airlift the kitten out of the tree once the dogs have chased it up
better put the alert out to the gyrocopter blokes to airlift the kitten out of the tree once the dogs have chased it up
And get the Muddy Funsters at Highland 4x4 Response to race to the scene of the nearest park in case it gets its paws covered in gutters.
Our Nethercliff Hotel Friday pub quiz team is available to help the other emergency services with our knowledge and deductive faculties.
Please don't call on Saturday mornings.
Our Nethercliff Hotel Friday pub quiz team is available to help the other emergency services with our knowledge and deductive faculties.
Please don't call on Saturday mornings.
Hey Sids, stop jumping the queue!
Ive already offered the sevices of C.A.S.B.S.T. (Caithness and Sutherland Binocular Search Team). We were out training last night but had to come home early as one of our team members was running while looking through his binoculars (Bressber 10x50, auto-dim, anti-mist, removable lens caps) and didnt see the barb wire fence in front of him. But as we had a first aid box from Tesco we were quickly able to treat the injuries (after a full risk assesment) and get the casualty back to base and make him comfortable.
Giving the height of the barb wire on the fence he may need a splint for certain activities in the future but he should make a full recovery.
Hey Sids, stop jumping the queue!
Ive already offered the sevices of C.A.S.B.S.T. (Caithness and Sutherland Binocular Search Team). We were out training last night but had to come home early as one of our team members was running while looking through the binoculars (Bressber 10x50, auto-dim, anti-mist) and didnt see the barb wire fence in front of him. But as we had a first aid box from Tesco we were quickly able to treat the injuries (after a full risk assesment) and get the casualty back to base and make him comfortable.
Giving the height of the barb wire on the fence he may need a splint for certain activities in the future but he should make a full recovery.
I can offer my team's services as clothes line errectors to have a look at the fence.
OMG! How pathetic are some of you? Do YOU volunteer??? Do you offer your time and services free of charge without expecting anything in return? This forum is over run with nasty minded pathetic individulas who seem to have nothing better to do all day than slag of people and moan,maybe if you got of your butts and did something for the community you wouldnt be so quick to judge those who DO want to help in any way they can! Just rememeber that BIG charities like Red Cross,Blytheswood,IFAW, etc ALL started off with a few volunteers.....are you laughing at them or slagging them off?nope.....didnt think so!x
OMG! How pathetic are some of you? Do YOU volunteer??? Do you offer your time and services free of charge without expecting anything in return? This forum is over run with nasty minded pathetic individulas who seem to have nothing better to do all day than slag of people and moan,maybe if you got of your butts and did something for the community you wouldnt be so quick to judge those who DO want to help in any way they can! Just rememeber that BIG charities like Red Cross,Blytheswood,IFAW, etc ALL started off with a few volunteers.....are you laughing at them or slagging them off?nope.....didnt think so!x
Most charities are truly created to satisfy the conscience / ego / guilt of the 'volunteer' rather than the need of the 'receiver'.
orkneycadian
29-Jan-11, 14:16
Do YOU volunteer??? Do you offer your time and services free of charge without expecting anything in return?
Yep, and the whole of tomorrow is set aside for it, as was last Sunday, as will be next Sunday. But I don't feel the need to complain in the public domain if someone doesn't call upon my voluntary services today!
Most charities are truly created to satisfy the conscience / ego / guilt of the 'volunteer' rather than the need of the 'receiver'.
What total and complete gibberish, where the hell on earth did you get that idea?:eek:
Most charities are truly created to satisfy the conscience / ego / guilt of the 'volunteer' rather than the need of the 'receiver'. What absolute drivel,but believe what you want if it soemhow makes you feel better for belittling others!
Yep, and the whole of tomorrow is set aside for it, as was last Sunday, as will be next Sunday. But I don't feel the need to complain in the public domain if someone doesn't call upon my voluntary services today!
Good for you,but it still doesnt give you the right to go and take the proverbial out of others efforts,does it? And I think you will find that CASST did not complain on here about anything,someone else brought it up,and it was then dived on by others,who no little or nothing but feel they have the right to slag it off! Oh and before anyone says it,nope I have nothing to do with CASST, I just cannot abide the way people are ripping inot this and other services on here and getting away with it!
I would like to make some points in this debate.
Point one.....They are called C.A.S.S.T and NOT C.A.S.S as is stands for Caithness and Sutherland Search Team.
Point Two......They may be a Volunteer group but they are a Totally Dedicated Group and are a 100% Professional Team which are Highly Trained.
Point Three.....They are group that can and does help to save lives, they should be praised for their work and not critiqued.
Point Four.....The reason why they get angry and frustrated when they are not called out is simple. The Team are in Caithness and if a person goes missing in Caithness usually another Team is called in and this then takes many hours for them to get on site. If C.A.S.S.T were called in then they could be on site in under an hour. Time that can not be afforded to be wasted is wasted due to this. So their frustration is understandable.
Point five.....If everyone thought the same as chordie and orkneycadian no one would do anything for anybody. There would be No RNLI, No Mountain Rescue, No Red Cross and so forth. These are all Volunteer organisations and if both orkneycadian and chordie had their way they would not exist.
So I would suggest that we should just ignore the posts of these two, as it is clear thay are only posting in the manner they do to try and upset as many people as they can.
They ... are a 100% Professional Team which are Highly Trained.
No they're not - they are amateur members of the public. Northern Constabulary's Dog Team are however.
These are all Volunteer organisations and if both orkneycadian and chordie had their way they would not exist.
I have absolutely no objection to the existence of these Doggie Do-gooders. If they want to get together of a weekend and play at being International Rescue then that's fine - we all have hobbies and interests as an outlet for our fantasies; I play an instrument in a band and wish I was as good as all my famous idols, but I don't kick up a fuss if we don't get booked every time there's an entertainment function in Caithness.
The problem is when these meddlers get above their station and delude themselves into thinking they suddenly have some rightful status.
The real Police dogs smelt a numpty a mile off with this bunch by the looks of it.
orkneycadian
16-Mar-11, 19:12
Its co-incidental that the much lamented Chordie above used the term "International Rescue" - It appears that a group of that name have been turned away from Japan, not perhaps so much as they claim due to "Embassy Red Tape" but what the UK Government describes as "the team did not have logistical, transport or language support and the Japanese government had made it clear they could not supply it." (Sources = BBC Website, here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12756366))
Apparently, a letter describing them as a "bona fide organisation" could not be produced, and to do so would mean that the British Embassy would become responsible for them. Echoes of the "who assumes responsibility" debate that took place earlier in this thread.
It seems then that Caithness and Sutherland are not the only places with wannabe rescuers that are disappointed when their services are not required. Just a shame they spent all that money going to Japan and back before finding it out!
northener
17-Mar-11, 08:21
There's a bit of confusion generally about who 'International Rescue' are.
Apart from Gerry Andersons creation, there are two British 'International Rescue' groups involved, the first is the small team that were returned as outlined above.
The second team is "UK International Rescue" - (UKISAR) which is staffed by serving Emergency Service volounteers. And who are out there now.
http://www.kent.fire-uk.org/news/news_releases/16_march_2011_uk-isar_team_har.aspx
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12742158
orkneycadian
17-Mar-11, 10:07
Disappointment seems to be a regular occurrence for this one. According to all the twittering since the beginning of 2010 on their webpage, they were disappointed that "Logisitics and cost of deployment" meant they couldn't go to Haiti. Then neither Chile nor China took them up on their offers for help after earthhquakes in both countries, they "monitor" another Chilean earthquake, as they do the one in New Zealand.
Most recently, the twittering says....
"The team is ready to respond and are prepared for a fast deployment. We remain in contact with the Government of Japan"
"Japanese Embassy confirms no further search and rescue teams required at this time. Team is standing down but remains available."
"We remain in contact with the Japanese Embassy in London to offer our support"
"A 14 strong team has arrived in Japan to carry out essential aid and humanitarian operations"
So according to their twitters, the Japanese Embassy confirmed that no further search teams were required, but they went anyway and got turned back when they got there?
All sounds very familiar!
SunnyChick
17-Mar-11, 10:59
They have offered to have me come out on a training day while I'm there, which I shall definitely do.
Hi Canadagirl, I hope you enjoyed your training day with CASST. xx
canadagirl
17-Mar-11, 16:18
Yes I enjoyed my day out, was very interesting. My ever-obliging doggies are enjoying new work. I'm sure if a person was stranded/lost in a situation where they couldn't move it would be incredible to be found by a (drooling) dog rather than hearing helicopters flying over and knowing they couldn't be seen. Was a good experience and I encourage other dog people to give it a go.
Mystical Potato Head
17-Mar-11, 16:44
Good for you,but it still doesnt give you the right to go and take the proverbial out of others efforts,does it? And I think you will find that CASST did not complain on here about anything,someone else brought it up,and it was then dived on by others,who no little or nothing but feel they have the right to slag it off! Oh and before anyone says it,nope I have nothing to do with CASST, I just cannot abide the way people are ripping inot this and other services on here and getting away with it!
Its not like Orkneycadian to take the proverbial out of as many posts as he can just to wind people up.
Thankfully most folk have wised up to it by now and less and less people are biting back at his repetitive comments.
Blazing Sporrans
18-Mar-11, 13:02
I'm sure if a person was stranded/lost in a situation where they couldn't move it would be incredible to be found by a (drooling) dog rather than hearing helicopters flying over and knowing they couldn't be seen.
Do they not have or use thermal imaging? If so, that's worth hundreds of pairs of eyes on the ground.
In any event, I was intrigued by the thread and googled The National Urban Search & Rescue Dog Group and came up with a page from the Civil Defence Association with a link to the above Dog Group that doesn't work. Are the Group still in existence? And I know it's already been said, however I would have thought that an urban search environment might be a completely different scenario (important for the dogs' training I'd have thought) from search and tracking in open countryside, densely wooded areas or such like. I can understand those that might say that even an organisation that has no backing from the Police is better than nothing, however if the Police have their own dogs then it is understandable that they would prefer to use their own as they know to which standard they have been trained. A drugs dog is still a highly trained sniffer dog, but you wouldn't want to use it to sniff out explosives would you? It's got to be a specialist role that is specific to the dog surely? In fact, as I type this, I'm watching a dog sniff luggage for money - another task specific role (Dog Squad - Sky 1).
And you can't google 'search and rescue' and 'dogs' without hitting the website for SARDA http://www.sarda-scotland.org/ who it appears have Police backing and accreditation. From their website;
"The Search & Rescue Dog Association Scotland:
a volunteer organisation which trains dogs and their handlers to search for missing persons
used by Police and Mountain Rescue to locate missing people in the mountains or low ground areas, including children and people with dementia."
The solution for CASST would seem fundamentally simple then - have your dogs accredited by SARDA and then the Police won't have an excuse not to use you. Or am I just being too daft and simplistic? Are there politics going on that the public aren't hearing about?
I can't find a link to the online version of this news article so will quote some of the hardcopy version here:-
"MOVE TO SOLVE ROW BETWEEN DOG RESCUE TEAM AND POLICE IN NORTH
COUNCILLORS SET UP MEETING BETWEEN TWO PARTIES
Two far north councillors have stepped in to try broker "peace" between a volunteer dog search-and-rescue team and Northern Constabulary.
The force has opted not to use dogs and handlers from the Caithness and Sutherland Search Team (CASST) since the group formed in 2003.
Its members remain mystified over why it continues to be overlooked by the force on searches for missing people in the area.
Now Caithness landward member Willie Mackay and Thurso Councillor Donnie Mackay have arranged a meeting next week to try and resolve the issue. Both have been trying to get to the bottom of why CASST has been used by other police forces but never by Northern Constabulary. Their initiative follows recent demonstrations when they watched CASST handlers put their dogs through their paces in open country and wooded areas in Mey and Dunnet...........
Northern Constabulary has previously stated that its policy is to use police search-and-rescue dogs or those accredited by the Search and Rescue Dog Association."
I've not seen any follow-up press reports as to the outcome of the meeting but it could be that this only took place today and perhaps the situation is resolved as I type. Time will tell....
Do they not have or use thermal imaging? If so, that's worth hundreds of pairs of eyes on the ground.
In any event, I was intrigued by the thread and googled The National Urban Search & Rescue Dog Group and came up with a page from the Civil Defence Association with a link to the above Dog Group that doesn't work. Are the Group still in existence? And I know it's already been said, however I would have thought that an urban search environment might be a completely different scenario (important for the dogs' training I'd have thought) from search and tracking in open countryside, densely wooded areas or such like. I can understand those that might say that even an organisation that has no backing from the Police is better than nothing, however if the Police have their own dogs then it is understandable that they would prefer to use their own as they know to which standard they have been trained. A drugs dog is still a highly trained sniffer dog, but you wouldn't want to use it to sniff out explosives would you? It's got to be a specialist role that is specific to the dog surely? In fact, as I type this, I'm watching a dog sniff luggage for money - another task specific role (Dog Squad - Sky 1).
And you can't google 'search and rescue' and 'dogs' without hitting the website for SARDA http://www.sarda-scotland.org/ who it appears have Police backing and accreditation. From their website;
"The Search & Rescue Dog Association Scotland:
a volunteer organisation which trains dogs and their handlers to search for missing persons
used by Police and Mountain Rescue to locate missing people in the mountains or low ground areas, including children and people with dementia."
The solution for CASST would seem fundamentally simple then - have your dogs accredited by SARDA and then the Police won't have an excuse not to use you. Or am I just being too daft and simplistic? Are there politics going on that the public aren't hearing about?
Yes politics are going n that you are not aware of
Walter Ego
16-Apr-11, 22:43
Yes politics are going n that you are not aware of
But of course you will be able to enhance our knowledge with your inside information.
I won't hold my breath.
sintra307
16-Apr-11, 23:32
[QUOTE=orkneycadian;810986]I guess its the same as a number of groups "playing" at being an emergency service we have seen over here.....
For a while, although it seems to have fallen out of favour now, the radio hams would parade around public events (the annual horse riding round the town being one example), in case someone needed to call for help and there was a simultaneous failure of all the mobile phone networks, payphones, nearby residential phones and the radio systems of the emergency services. Of course there never was, so I think they got fed up of it.
Then we have someone who runs about in a second hand ambulance, with just enough of the original livery covered over / re-painted to ensure they don't get formally charged with purporting to be a genuine ambulance. They turn up at all sorts of public events too to dispense first aid, but none that probbaly couldn't be done from a first aid kit in the back of a car, as opoosed to a full sized (albeit rusty) ambulance, complete with blue lights.
Oddly enough, whenever there have been any incidents of note in Orkney, neither the above groups have been called upon by the official emergency services, as the groups hope they might. I guess the Caithness dog walking club fall into the same category![/QUOTE
it would seem to me you just are really ill informed or have no knowledge of such groups as you are talking a load of drivvle yourself, one of the groups you refer to but dont name is Raynet formed in 1953 the amateur radio operators provided emergency communications for the user services (police,fire and ambulance) and they have gone on to provide these services for such events as piper alpha,zeebruge and lockerbie. www.clevelandraynet.awardspace.com/lockerbie.html (http://www.clevelandraynet.awardspace.com/lockerbie.html) many search and rescue teams were used. so maybe they do sit at local events and seemingly play at it but just think on it is part of the training for bigger things and i for one if there was to be some unfortunate event needing my support with my radio count me in. Search and rescue dogs are a necessity and isnt it great that people give up their time with their dogs to train them. so thumbs up to ALL dog search teams you are appreciated in this house and who knows maybe we will join you one day. ps ive got a pair of binoculars as well.
If the problem is political, possibly C.A.A.S.T dont speak gaelic. And dont provide paperwork in dual languages( Ie gaelic in big writing and english in small print)
This problem possibly doesnt affect any other ploice force as they just do everything in english as does 99.9% of this country!
orkneycadian
17-Apr-11, 12:46
it would seem to me you just are really ill informed or have no knowledge of such groups as you are talking a load of drivvle yourself, one of the groups you refer to but dont name is Raynet formed in 1953 the amateur radio operators provided emergency communications for the user services (police,fire and ambulance) and they have gone on to provide these services for such events as piper alpha,zeebruge and lockerbie.
All quite possible - Drivel is my speciality!
A lot of water has passed under the bridge since 1988 and things like Lockerbie. In those days, mobile phones were extremely uncommon - GSM, the 2G phones as we know them today, didn't come into being till 1991, and the mobile phones of the day were extremely bulky and expensive to own and operate. Meanwhile, the emergency services were still operating over their own, individual radio systems of various vintages.
In this decade, communications systems are a lot more diverse than then. Even 8 year old kids have a more sophisticated communications system in their pockets than the radio hams had at Lockerbie in 1988, capable of at the very least national, if not international operation. The mobile phone network is largely (although not completely) independant of the landline network and provides a far higher level of redundnacy than in 1988. The landline network itself has a huge amount more capacity than in the 80's, to account for the "always on" connections of a significant penetration of ADSL services. Meanwhile, the emergency services have migrated onto their own, completely independant "mobile phone" network, utilising different network hardware from conventional mobile phones. Should that network go tits up, then their hardware allows them to continue, point to point, without a fixed network infrastructure, and they can even use their own radios as repeaters to fill in blind spots.
All very different from the 1980's when the back up plan might have involved 2 tins and a bit of string!
So it is unclear to me, what the "training for bigger things" is that playing at events in this decade provides for. All the examples of incidents where folk have been called out with their radios date from the 1980's. Some even still talk about flooding in 1953! Whilst I have no doubt that some willing volunteers were handy to have around in the 1980's, things have moved on an awful lot in the last 23 or so years!
canadagirl
17-Apr-11, 15:22
"Willing volunteers" are handy to have around any time. As said there are many private volunteer groups, and I really don't think any of them are harming the general public and in the event of a major (or minor) disaster I have no doubt that they will be "handy to have around". If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.
orkneycadian
17-Apr-11, 16:12
If you recall, the original gist of this thread was a question posed as to why a certain voluntary group's services were not called upon by the emergency services when it appeared that it might be beneficial to do so.
The more recent postings have been in relation to a different group of similar volunteers. However, the examples cited of their involvement date from 1987 to 1988. On their own webpage, the most recent "disaster" they were apparantly involved with was the Braer incident in Shetland, more than 18 years ago.
So yes, I agree that willing volunteers can be handy things in times of need. It however appears that these willing volunteers have not been called upon for "major disasters" in the UK for the best part of 2 decades or more, due to the advancement of more accessible communications to both the emergency services, and Joe Public.
So whilst the may be "handy to have around" at a major disaster, recent experience probably shows that, like the willing volunteers who flew all the way to Japan, but got turned away, their services may not actually be required. Despite extensive searching on t'internet, I can find no reports of volunteer communications operators being required at the front line in things like the 7/7 attacks in London, high profile gunmen rampages last year, the fire at the Buncefield oil depot, etc.
If you recall, the original gist of this thread was a question posed as to why a certain voluntary group's services were not called upon by the emergency services when it appeared that it might be beneficial to do so.
So whilst the may be "handy to have around" at a major disaster, recent experience probably shows that, like the willing volunteers who flew all the way to Japan, but got turned away, their services may not actually be required. Despite extensive searching on t'internet, I can find no reports of volunteer communications operators being required at the front line in things like the 7/7 attacks in London, high profile gunmen rampages last year, the fire at the Buncefield oil depot, etc.
That Titanic business was a bit of a shocker!
Metalattakk
18-Apr-11, 03:03
That Titanic business was a bit of a shocker!
Oi! No need to take the proverbial. Four good search and rescue dogs died on that 'manoeuvre". [evil]
Why oh why don't they do proper lifeboat dog training? :(
looks as if the problems and differences have now been resolved
http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/News/Dog-search-team-hails-new-start-07102011.htm
David Banks
08-Oct-11, 18:05
looks as if the problems and diffences have now been resolved
http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/News/Dog-search-team-hails-new-start-07102011.htm
Thank you for the posting and link.
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