View Full Version : Paternity leave
What are your views on the government's proposal to give fathers up to ten months paternity leave?
Good for fathers, bad for employers I'd say.
i guess it depends on the situation.. is the father going to be the main caregiver? if so then i can see the point of it.. if not.. then not so much.. there are many reasons why a father could become the main caregiver.. such as loss of mother, mum having really bad depression, mum being the main breadwinner.. and so forth.. so if dad is going to be the main caregiver i say ..tomato tomathao.. kinda thing..
Only in Engerland tho, not Scotland
Wasn't aware of that. Haven't read anything that says it only applies to England. Hope that's true though because I can't see what possible benefit it could offer other than give the father a protracted holiday. Meanwhile the poor mother who has lumped the sprog around for nine months before having her body knocked for six during childbirth, has to don the working clothes and go out and earn a living for the family a mere two months later. Pure PC poppycock.
annemarie482
18-Jan-11, 00:39
no doubt they will get the oppertunity to take the time off.....
but the pay will be so low that they'll feel obliged to return to work.
eg:
2 years ago i had my daughter.
oh works offshore and was offered 2 weeks off @ £200
we decided he went to work.
i think it would be good as long as it wasnt abused!
Its hard going for the first few months and if there was a breather of both parents present it would be great.
No one absolutley knackered and being able to function on all levels at work..etc...
But dont know how it would work in practice...
The first few months are like living like a zombie for both parents but at least dad gets time off to go to work with just the two weeks off they get but they dont get to have the time to bond with the baby!
ShelleyCowie
18-Jan-11, 00:45
Agree with you annemarie! The pay really is low! If both parents are not working then there is no steady money source going into the household. We have been lucky, hubby saved his holidays and used them when both Athrun and Jay-D were born and took the 2 weeks paternity. We saved up a bit each week throughout the year though so we could afford for him to be off. Especially since i had c-sections both times.
10 months paternity is a brilliant idea for fathers, i know hubby feels like he misses out so much with the kids. He has 4 kiddies, he has only been there for the "firsts" with some of Athruns. He was here for Jays first laugh. But he missed alot with his first 2. Paternity leave wasnt introduced when he had his eldest either so he never spent much time with him when he was born.
Personally i think dads need as much (maybe even more) time with their kids to create that bond. We carry them around for 9 months (not moaning, well a little) and so we create that bond with them already. Hubby makes the most of the time he has with the kiddies here. Try to get individual time with them and alone time without me here :)
The only problem I see is if the mum is breastfeeding and having to go back earlier because of the dad taking the paternity leave...
And leaving themselves screwed because the baby wont take a bottle...,
Its a nightmare..btdt!
The only problem I see is if the mum is breastfeeding and having to go back earlier because of the dad taking the paternity leave...
And leaving themselves screwed because the baby wont take a bottle...,
Its a nightmare..btdt!
Quite so! Mothers are the natural nurturers of the relationship although that's not denying that fathers have a parental role to play. Breastfeeding is an important start for any baby and mothers should be encouraged to feed their children and not abandon them to a bottle of formula and their father while they have to earn a crust. The sooner that people fall into their natural roles and stop trying to make blokes feel guilty about not having enough time with their kids the better.
well, i didnt breast feed but nothing to do with abandoning them to the bottle... they were too sick to nurse and by the time they could.. either my milk was gone or they wouldnt take.
but thats beside the point. ... this again falls in with father being the main caregiver.. when i had the boys .. both were very sick.. and was in Scbu.. i was also in hospital before and after they were born.
when ben came along.. hubby had to take extra time off work, as i was in hospital with Ben .. and he had to care for sam.. then as i had to have a section.. he had to pick up a lot of the work at home, that i wasnt able to do .. (mainly because i took a bad infection at my wound) so that all goes back to dad being main carer again.. therefore needing more time off work.. especially as ive no family here to help out and it was just the two of us..
Penelope Pitstop
18-Jan-11, 11:10
Your right "theone".
What if a small business had 2 or even worse 3 Dads on paternity leave at the same time...would probably make business struggle. Both in man power and their overheads, i.e 3 x paternity leave payments a week.
Also the cost of wages getting others in to carry out the work required. (That is of course if you could actually find others to take on the short term work. Skills, trade, training, etc.)
In a country with struggling businesses the Government hasn't thought this one through so that it suits both fathers and business.
ShelleyCowie
18-Jan-11, 12:01
Quite so! Mothers are the natural nurturers of the relationship although that's not denying that fathers have a parental role to play. Breastfeeding is an important start for any baby and mothers should be encouraged to feed their children and not abandon them to a bottle of formula and their father while they have to earn a crust. The sooner that people fall into their natural roles and stop trying to make blokes feel guilty about not having enough time with their kids the better.
What a way to make bottle feeding mothers feel good about themselves :( thanks!
onecalledk
18-Jan-11, 13:24
It all comes down to cost doesnt it, its like everything else the government has introduced to "help" parents, all down to the employer really. Paternity leave is all good and well if the father is getting paid for it, if he isnt then he will not be able to afford to take time off. Children cost money full stop. The government havent really factored this in at all. I am sure there are many families out there who would love to have time off TOGETHER at the start of the childs life but for many that is not an option as they cannot afford it.
Like much of the "family" ideas that this country has it hasnt factored in cost. We in the UK pay higher childcare costs than our european friends. In Sweden the childcare costs are much much less than in this country, they also work the childcare around the working week so that the childcare makes sense. Unlike this country where childcare is seen as a way to make money. Private nurseries in this country are printing money.
We as a nation have to look at the way we view the family full stop. Now for those who are about to chip in and say that parents shouldnt work, stay at home look after kids etc that is down to CHOICE. For some there is no choice but to work. Many single mothers and fathers out there who have to work and rely on childcare to do this. NOt everyone has family near them or family at all to help out.
If more money was spent on providing decent AFFORDABLE childcare then more people would be in work to start with. This country has it the wrong way round. Most nurseries charge a fortune and are open just round the monday to friday 9am til 5pm scenario. That is fine if that is what the majority of people work but work is changing.
I have been in both scenarios, where as a single parent I HAD to work, break up of marriage forced me to work full time to afford a roof over my head etc etc. Death of a parent provided no support at that time so no family help. Its hard and its expensive. I would probably have been better off NOT working but didnt want to go down that route.
There are many scenarios to consider and just throwing in a "heres some leave to help bond with your child" is not going to help the families that need it most. Mr and Mrs Uppercrust with plenty of money may well rejoice at this news but Mr & Mrs Average, struggling to get buy are not even going to look at it .....
K
We as a nation have to look at the way we view the family full stop. Now for those who are about to chip in and say that parents shouldnt work, stay at home look after kids etc that is down to CHOICE. For some there is no choice but to work. Many single mothers and fathers out there who have to work and rely on childcare to do this. NOt everyone has family near them or family at all to help out.
K
Your post with much 'SHOUTING' pointed to choice, I quite agree. The Government provide free contraception to all, therefore the choice is 'can we afford to chance it or shall we use the free contraception tonight dear ?'.
Your right "theone".
What if a small business had 2 or even worse 3 Dads on paternity leave at the same time...would probably make business struggle. Both in man power and their overheads, i.e 3 x paternity leave payments a week.
Also the cost of wages getting others in to carry out the work required. (That is of course if you could actually find others to take on the short term work. Skills, trade, training, etc.)
In a country with struggling businesses the Government hasn't thought this one through so that it suits both fathers and business.
I quite agree, Why should the Government have to pay for Mr Smith to bounce Baby Smith on his knee for x amount of time after the sprog is born? What does this do to businesses that have to work around legislation? Society has managed since the day dot with women looking after children quite nicely whilst Mr Smith went hunting, shooting, gathering, farming, fishing, coal mining, fighting in World Wars etc. etc. The traditional family model has been altered slightly what with more women working. Fair enough but the bottom line is that families need to provide suitable care for their children. The parents have to assume responsibility for care and not expect the Government to provide and fund childcare. If we as a country keep going with daft legislation like paternal leave, what will be next.... Grandparental leave, auntie leave? The mind boggles.
We have it in Canada.....Some parents split it and sometimes the higher earner works more......
Then the problem creeps in....What if the woman has Twins?.............Now people are claiming they both should be allowed off at the same time!!!!
I dunno.........what's your thoughts?
just to add... maternity leave in america is 6 weeks unpaid..for the mother
ShelleyCowie
18-Jan-11, 16:13
Your post with much 'SHOUTING' pointed to choice, I quite agree. The Government provide free contraception to all, therefore the choice is 'can we afford to chance it or shall we use the free contraception tonight dear ?'.
contraception fails sometimes you know, found that out myself.
I quite agree, Why should the Government have to pay for Mr Smith to bounce Baby Smith on his knee for x amount of time after the sprog is born? What does this do to businesses that have to work around legislation? Society has managed since the day dot with women looking after children quite nicely whilst Mr Smith went hunting, shooting, gathering, farming, fishing, coal mining, fighting in World Wars etc. etc. The traditional family model has been altered slightly what with more women working. Fair enough but the bottom line is that families need to provide suitable care for their children. The parents have to assume responsibility for care and not expect the Government to provide and fund childcare. If we as a country keep going with daft legislation like paternal leave, what will be next.... Grandparental leave, auntie leave? The mind boggles.
Sorry to ask, do you have kids? I havent properly worked since just before my 2 year old was born. I was unable to work through most of my pregnancy due to some problems too. Worked a summer for my mum a couple of years ago but thats been it.
Every minute with my kids im greatful we have a system like we do. Im not saying i live off it, we live off my husbands wage which he works hard for through a disability aswell.
What if dads wanted to take "unpaid" leave for that 10 months?
Penelope Pitstop
18-Jan-11, 16:19
I quite agree, Why should the Government have to pay for Mr Smith to bounce Baby Smith on his knee for x amount of time after the sprog is born?
It's the employer who has to stump up the paternity pay, not the government !
The government just makes the rules and regulations...they don't pay for them [disgust]
If wimmin are gonna go an' get themselves knocked up why should the men have to pick up the pieces...................................hang on.......10 month holiday...hmmmm
Plenty of opportunities for wetting the babies head there, get the Golf back on par, a few little fishing trips. Maybe some traveling, apparently there are some good trips visiting breweries around Europe.
Penelope Pitstop
18-Jan-11, 17:10
If wimmin are gonna go an' get themselves knocked up why should the men have to pick up the pieces...................................hang on.......10 month holiday...hmmmm
Plenty of opportunities for wetting the babies head there, get the Golf back on par, a few little fishing trips. Maybe some traveling, apparently there are some good trips visiting breweries around Europe.
You would of course be taking the baby on your back with you?:lol:
It's the employer who has to stump up the paternity pay, not the government !
The government just makes the rules and regulations...they don't pay for them [disgust]
The Government pay Statutory Paternity Pay. Any pay over above this is dependant on the worker's contract with their employer - contractural paternity pay.
The employer pays SPP (plus CPP if entitled through contract) subject to various rules. The employer then reclaims the SPP from the Government. The amount reclaimed varies between 92% for larger employers, 100% plus NI compensation for smaller employers and 100% for smaller employers who pay CPP.
This only takes into consideration the direct costs of a worker on paternity leave - what about the inconvenience factor, what about replacing the worker for the time off etc. These are all costs that most employers, especially smaller employers, just don't need.
onecalledk
18-Jan-11, 20:10
I quite agree, Why should the Government have to pay for Mr Smith to bounce Baby Smith on his knee for x amount of time after the sprog is born? What does this do to businesses that have to work around legislation? Society has managed since the day dot with women looking after children quite nicely whilst Mr Smith went hunting, shooting, gathering, farming, fishing, coal mining, fighting in World Wars etc. etc. The traditional family model has been altered slightly what with more women working. Fair enough but the bottom line is that families need to provide suitable care for their children. The parents have to assume responsibility for care and not expect the Government to provide and fund childcare. If we as a country keep going with daft legislation like paternal leave, what will be next.... Grandparental leave, auntie leave? The mind boggles.
take off the rose tinted specs and you will see a very different world to the one you describe. Generations ago yes the mother stayed at home and looked after the kids, she did this because her husband was in a job which paid the bills. Not so today with the cost of living meaning that BOTH parents need to work to provide for the children. You cant have it both ways either, those who dont work and stay at home to look after their children are accused of spongeing off the state whilst those that do go out to work are tarred with not being too fussed about their childrens welfare.
Women dont always work because they have something to prove, they work because the family need the money! gone are the days of one parent being the breadwinner. Todays society has a completely different structure to it. In days gone by the working week was monday to friday , not so today when its every day of the week , every week of the year. The demands of parents today are much more than in generations gone by.
It would be interesting to find out the ages of those responding to this question as the older generations tend to think along the lines of not expecting any help from anyone etc etc. If the government expect both parents to work and contribute to society then it has to lend a helping hand.
For all of you who have decided not to have children then fair play to you but you have to concede that if everyone made that decision then we wouldnt need this discussion...
after all the children we debate today are the future WORKERS of tomorrow arent they ...
K
well to answer your question on age ect.. i will be 34 next month.. my children are ages 7 and 6 right now.. and up until last year i worked part time to help cover costs..
The Drunken Duck
18-Jan-11, 20:25
Why shouldn't men have the same rights as women ??, They are just as much a parent as the mother is. I know women think they are all "special" because they carry the kid and give birth but it cant be that bad girls, how many women have more than one kid eh ??, now you go and ask a man who has been kicked in the gonads if he wants another one .. you wont find one that says yes. Conclusive proof that childbirth is not as painful as a kick in the 'nads. You lot dont know what pain is.
When my daughter was born I had to take annual holiday leave to spend any time with her. I got four days, its all I could be spared for. Imagine how hacked off I was a few years later when instead of working 4 on 4 off I had to work 6 on 2 off because a pregnant girl in my section had dropped and was "entitled" to her maternity leave of some 6 weeks. And us blokes had to cover for her. This meant less time seeing OUR families !!
Last time I checked "equality" meant everyone treated equally. Personally I find it highly amusing that somewhere a woman will have to work extra to cover a mans maternity leave. Its fun when the boot goes on the other foot.
Penelope Pitstop
19-Jan-11, 10:59
after all the children we debate today are the future WORKERS of tomorrow arent they ...
K
Lets just hope companies can keep going in the future to employ them!
im all for equality as well.. im still waiting for women to get paid the same as men for doing the same job.
The Drunken Duck
19-Jan-11, 14:52
im all for equality as well.. im still waiting for women to get paid the same as men for doing the same job.
Is there a specific job you are referring to ??
All the women I worked with in the Forces got the same pay (but had far easier fitness test standards than the blokes, something they werent to keen to push for "equality" in) and all the women I have worked with since be it Offshore or Onshore have had the same pay as me. Just as it should be if they are doing the same job, with the emphasis on "if" though.
according to this its getting better but still not there..
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=167
Walter Ego
19-Jan-11, 16:34
Why should the government support those who choose to breed at all?
The attitude appears to be one of "I'm going to have kids and everyone else has to foot the bill".
I don't see, for example, why employers should run their businesses around those who have used free choice to take their time and money up with something else, i.e: a kid?
ShelleyCowie
19-Jan-11, 16:53
Why should the government support those who choose to breed at all?
The attitude appears to be one of "I'm going to have kids and everyone else has to foot the bill".
I don't see, for example, why employers should run their businesses around those who have used free choice to take their time and money up with something else, i.e: a kid?
Right i cant hold it in any longer! Why on earth call it "breed" [evil]
You have every right to your opinion even though i definetely dont agree with it but at least word it a bit better so its less offensive. I dont see my children as being the result of "breeding" and i certainly dont expect people to "foot the bill" either!
Do you have kids? Im actually interested to know how many of the people that have commented on this thread have kids!
canadagirl
19-Jan-11, 17:05
I have to say something here...I had my kids on my own, with no help from the government or anyone else. I know accidents happen but even then you've got around 8 months to save or make enough extra money to get you through. I know young girls who take on an extra job as soon as they found out they were pregnant. I guess in an ideal world there would be lots of communication and goodwill between employer/employee and they would make the leave work out for all. My 3 oldest kids went out on their own by 19 and are productive members of society with no idea of government handouts. Maybe it's a coincidence. I simply don't believe the system owes anybody anything though I do think it's good for dads to be with their kids when young as much as possible.
Sorry bit off topic
Whats the childcare like in Canada?
It must be better and cheaper than here.
I had to give up my job as I couldnt afford the childcare and didnt want my kids all in different areas of the county while I was at work.
(no childminder could take all 3 of them)
Nursery starts at 3yo or if you are lucky 2y9mths!
canadagirl
19-Jan-11, 17:19
Childcare in canada is hideously expensive although there are lots of programs for low income people. We do have generous (time wise) paternity leave with benefits through unemployment insurance, which is a government plan you pay into like pension. Decent chilcare- plan on $50 per day. There have been times I worked weekends and it cost me to go to work. There is no easy way unless there are grandparents around!
im all for equality as well.. im still waiting for women to get paid the same as men for doing the same job.
I worked in the Civil Service for many years, women got paid the same as the men for doing the same job, and many of my line managers were female, I had no problem with that.
Walter Ego
19-Jan-11, 17:40
Right i cant hold it in any longer! Why on earth call it "breed" [evil] .......
Because, my dear, that's what making ickle kiddies is called. Breeding. Maybe this's why there's so many 'unexpected' pregnancies? A basic lack of sexual education?
..... I dont see my children as being the result of "breeding"
See above:cool:
.....Do you have kids?....
None of your business, Shelly. I keep my family seperate from this place.
ShelleyCowie
19-Jan-11, 17:49
Because, my dear, that's what making ickle kiddies is called. Breeding. Maybe this's why there's so many 'unexpected' pregnancies? A basic lack of sexual education?
See above:cool:
None of your business, Shelly. I keep my family seperate from this place.
Names shelley, not "my dear" Cos im not your dear. Im someone else's. I hardly have a lack of sexual education. I know what contraception is available and i know how to use it. I will admit one of my kids wasnt exactly planned but still wanted all the same! Wouldnt change them for the world.
Iv had a few comments regarding me not working. Couldnt care to be honest. Should i care?! Em no. Living my life with my family the way i want too.
Sometimes wish my husband could take leave so that i could work instead of him working through a very painful disability, but the job he works i cant get the same sort of money in.
Why should the government support those who choose to breed at all?
The attitude appears to be one of "I'm going to have kids and everyone else has to foot the bill".
I don't see, for example, why employers should run their businesses around those who have used free choice to take their time and money up with something else, i.e: a kid?
Well as you said yourself "My Work Is done here"
Just go away LITTLE MAN - there are people on here that have some serious things to say and who aren't out and out on here just to cause arguments...... hope you're very happy with yourself ??[evil][evil]
Starting a family/having children is a lifestyle choice. IMO employees who do not wish to have children should have equal rights to the same amount of time off. Call it a holiday/vacation/sabbatical. They can then enjoy equal treatment and go do something useful like travel the world, do voluntary work or explore a new hobby. Just because someone is having a baby doesn’t make them special; it’s been done before you know,;)
ok, lets face the facts here.. having a baby.. which at the end of the day.. people have to do.. or mankind is gonna say goodbye folks.. its a personal choice to have children and those that want to be moms and dads will be and those that dont will not be.. and that dosent even cover getting preg. you can have a child and never be a parent to it.. happens every day. .
but onto the relevant information.. maternity leave.. who should or shouldn't have it? giving birth is a medical emergency.. it is one of the most dangerous and deadly things we females face in a life time.
its not just go into labour push for a little while and out comes baby. .every one is happy and healthy..
its not just getting preg. carrying bean around in your belly for 9-10 mnths before popping them out.
and anyone that says that is either ignorant, a male or both! *cheeky grin*
how many women have lost their lives to bring children into this world.. how many children have been lost by being born.
say , you get thru the labour and delivery ok... then there is all sorts of things that can go wrong in the first days and weeks post birth.
the likely hood of SIDS dosent end until a child is well over a year.. and sometimes longer.
a baby is completely defenceless and has no way to protect itself at all..
on top of that.. due to the hormonal imbalances.. mothers often suffer greatly from depression.. and without help go into a downward spiral..
that at the least can ruin thier personal lives and their family.. and at worst end in murder suiside for a number of people.. usually mom and children.
who should get leave the longest?
whomever is the main care giver in my humble opinion.
be that mum or dad..
in an ideal world it would be great if mum and dad could be there in the begining exspecially if theres no extended family to lend a hand.
but in real life.. i think what we have here in this country is a huge blessing .. that mums get so much time to stay with baby .. and dad gets any at all..
canadagirl
19-Jan-11, 18:22
"It takes a village to raise a child" Kids don't ask to be born and regardless of why they are it's up to all of us to lend a helping hand to anyone in our community that might need it. Maybe that's an old fashioned view but I think it makes for a stronger community. I prefer to help those who need rather than want. Rather than blame struggling parents, give them a bit of support and watch the young ones turn into decent adults.
Walter Ego
19-Jan-11, 18:25
Names shelley, not "my dear" Cos im not your dear. Im someone else's. I hardly have a lack of sexual education. I know what contraception is available and i know how to use it. I will admit one of my kids wasnt exactly planned but still wanted all the same! Wouldnt change them for the world.
Thankyou for telling me the ins and outs of your family planning, Shelley. I'm sure your kids will thank you for that.....actually, I was teasing you over your apparrent failure to understand the use of the word 'breeding'. It appears that my humour is not for all.......never mind, eh?
Iv had a few comments regarding me not working. Couldnt care to be honest. Should i care?! Em no. Living my life with my family the way i want too.
Sometimes wish my husband could take leave so that i could work instead of him working through a very painful disability, but the job he works i cant get the same sort of money in.
You have received no comment from me regarding your inability to work. Please do not associate me with anything anyone else has said.
My point stands - that many of those who 'breed' appear to thinkk very little about the financial implications and the workload and then expect the System to prop them up.
If my opinion offends you - tough.
The Drunken Duck
19-Jan-11, 18:26
Right i cant hold it in any longer! Why on earth call it "breed" [evil]
You have every right to your opinion even though i definetely dont agree with it but at least word it a bit better so its less offensive. I dont see my children as being the result of "breeding" and i certainly dont expect people to "foot the bill" either!
Do you have kids? Im actually interested to know how many of the people that have commented on this thread have kids!
I have kids. And mine didnt see their dad on many an occassion as I was working extra shifts because another parent had more rights than their dad solely because they had breasts. So to keep with the thread subject I am all for anything that levels the playing field. Because I am heartily sick of "equality" being a one way street that goes only in the direction of the gay, the non white, the female, the disabled etc etc.
Think your being just a tad sensitive there Shelley, personally I am happy to have my kids described as the result of "breeding", otherwise the first one would be described as the result of "Nothing on telly that night" and the second as "I've been away for a month, brace yourself"
Walter Ego
19-Jan-11, 18:37
Well as you said yourself "My Work Is done here"
That was on a different thread, do try to keep up.
Just go away LITTLE MAN - there are people on here that have some serious things to say and who aren't out and out on here just to cause arguments...... hope you're very happy with yourself ??[evil][evil]
The irony of the above statement is probably winging it's way straight over your head right now.
I stated my point, Shelley got the arse with me teasing her, I can live with that as my original point was serious and not an attempt to goad anyone. If I had set out to deliberately offend, you'd definitely have known about it.
To put it bluntly Cherokee (are you a real Squaw?) I couldn't give a toss what your opinion of me and my posts is. You mean nothing to me.
Now, can we get back onto the subject or do you wish to carry on dummy spitting?
I am of the opinion that more responsibility for financial support should be taken by prospective parents and not the State.
Next.
i do agree to a point walter.. ie where people go and have babies just to get money off the govt. however something that the women in my family have always said.. and is so very true.. if you waited till you could afford to have a child then no one would have children. saying that.. you do not get the hand out back home as you do over here. for anything much less paternity leave.. so kinda moot point in the states. however with the way the economy is and lack of work.. well semi-lack of work.. (There always jobs for those willing to do them) if the govt. is able to help i think its great to a point.. as long as the system is not being abused.
Hmm how many years since the equality acts? Men cannot carry children. Maternity leave and pay exists so that the disadvantages associated with time taken to have babies is minimised. Someone talked about equal pay in the civil service. That's right. Published pay scales but it will still take a woman longer to progress if she has a baby: women continue to be under represented the higher up the grades you go. We are still in some places banging our heads against a glass ceiling. Maternity rights are there to help level the playing field and the opportunity to share leave between mum and dad helps to Increase equality not reduce it.
Someone said they Thought equality was about treating everyone the same. Ok then. Let's make the men have the babies. I know I know that's a ridiculous statement men can't have babies( I'm sure they are all devastated by THAT lol) so we should try to ensure that women are not disadvantaged by having to fulfil the role of childbearer in society.
ShelleyCowie
19-Jan-11, 19:49
Thankyou for telling me the ins and outs of your family planning, Shelley. I'm sure your kids will thank you for that.....actually, I was teasing you over your apparrent failure to understand the use of the word 'breeding'. It appears that my humour is not for all.......never mind, eh?
You have received no comment from me regarding your inability to work. Please do not associate me with anything anyone else has said.
My point stands - that many of those who 'breed' appear to thinkk very little about the financial implications and the workload and then expect the System to prop them up.
If my opinion offends you - tough.
If so "apparent teasing" then a smiley or 2 wouldnt go a miss. Didnt exactly tell you the "ins and outs" either. And sorry no, i didnt find it funny in the slightest and im always up for a joke and laugh.
I didnt mean for the point of not working to be aimed at you, it was in general.
The cost of having children is actually unbelieveable! I will give you that, and yes there are alot of people who seem to think its all easy sailing when they are having a child. The costs dont stop at a pack of nappies and tub of formula milk. Having 4, i fine well know.
Didnt say all of your opinions were offensive. Its just the way you have worded them. Infact, dont think there are many posts of yours i do like. But as you said thats my own tough luck.
Im done in this thread, cant be bothered anymore.
Here is a thought..This happened......Equality/ Rights / Accomodation etc.
A woman in her early 20's joined one of the Emergency Services. Two years later she advised she was pregnant. Due to 'posible interaction' with members of the Public she sought and was granted a Desk Job. She was there for 8 months, and then after giving birth she was granted 10 months Maternity leave.
She returned to work and just over a year later she was again Pregnant. Back behind the desk for 8 months and then off for another 10 months.
2 Years later she was pregnant again...same 8 months behind a desk and another 10 months Maternity leave. So she was accomodated for a total of 54 months in approx 9 years... The Maternity leave was the result of Union agreements.
So she was entitled to have the employment....equality with men! She was entitled to become pregnant and the 'Service' had ' A duty to accomodate her'.
The organization had a staff of over 1000 and during this period there were several women in the same situation.
There have been various thoughts on scenerios like this......In a large organization it can be handled/ in a small one it is very difficult, especially if the person who is in an 'accomodated position' is necessary. Thus extra people have to be hired with the associated costs which can become prohibitive!
I'm not saying if it is right or wrong, just somewhat difficult to deal with. We all got used to it now it is the norm....
And nowadays the husband would be entitled to Paternity leave.
Just another experience in life!
found this article.. it seems America has moved along a bit since i left.. its now 12 weeks unpaid maternity leave.. but this is not guaranteed and neither is your job..
http://www.pregnancytoday.com/articles/career-and-maternity-leave/maternity-leave-101-1225/
found this article.. it seems America has moved along a bit since i left.. its now 12 weeks unpaid maternity leave.. but this is not guaranteed and neither is your job..
http://www.pregnancytoday.com/articles/career-and-maternity-leave/maternity-leave-101-1225/
I think you will find that relates to what the Gov't dictates....
If you have a Private Employer and have Union and supplementary benefits which have been negiotated, then that can last for approx 10 months and be paid for to some degree.
Here is a thought..This happened......Equality/ Rights / Accomodation etc.
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And nowadays the husband would be entitled to Paternity leave.
Just another experience in life!
Here are some questions sandyr1.
Did this happen in Canada or the UK?
How does the Canadian system on Paternity leave differ from the UK system?
Is the system in Canada better or worse than the UK provision, IYHO?
I won't ask if you've had actual experience of the system. That would be too personal.
I've only just looked at this thread. It certainly seems to have turned into a bun fight :eek:
This is the situation presently in Canada/ I don't know about the UK.
Paternity in the UK I know nothing of.
It is a good system, but took some time to accept. You see,there has to be equality in jobs/ pay/ opportunities etc.,s if we want women to be in for example....Emergency Services....then we have to do it this way. Is the playing field level now....you decide!
No personal experience with this.....just managed people who were involved
Am a wee bitty long in the 'tooth'! 'Twas a couple of years ago that my children were in diapers.
Equality is very difficult to achieve. Our two Airlines were amalgamated many years ago.
Example////Air Canada Pilots were earning $100k and Canadian Airlines were earning $80k. So they fought over it and one was taken down $10k and the other was give a raise of $10k. That made things worse. Then they wouldn'talk to each other...........
So if Women get these 'rights' then men should have them....It has been decreed!. Fair and equitable...I dunno....but it seems to work.
A Newspaper Editor I know and his wife took 5 months each. Now of course you have to have a contractual plan...Gov't for example, to get these type of benefits
I've only just looked at this thread. It certainly seems to have turned into a bun fight :eek:
M....D.....
Equality it is!
Why shouldn't men have the same rights as women ??, They are just as much a parent as the mother is. I know women think they are all "special" because they carry the kid and give birth but it cant be that bad girls, how many women have more than one kid eh ??, now you go and ask a man who has been kicked in the gonads if he wants another one .. you wont find one that says yes. Conclusive proof that childbirth is not as painful as a kick in the 'nads. You lot dont know what pain is.
When my daughter was born I had to take annual holiday leave to spend any time with her. I got four days, its all I could be spared for. Imagine how hacked off I was a few years later when instead of working 4 on 4 off I had to work 6 on 2 off because a pregnant girl in my section had dropped and was "entitled" to her maternity leave of some 6 weeks. And us blokes had to cover for her. This meant less time seeing OUR families !!
Last time I checked "equality" meant everyone treated equally. Personally I find it highly amusing that somewhere a woman will have to work extra to cover a mans maternity leave. Its fun when the boot goes on the other foot.
Wait a minute. You're comparing giving birth and recovering from giving birth to being kicked in the nuts? From that your mobilty would not be restricted and painful for several days. You don't seem to realise the level of pain childbirth actually is.
As an example i had a bad back the whole way through my pregnancy, couldn't sit for more than ten mins as my son constantly kicked me in in ribs, Not to mention that i had morning sickness so bad that i couldn't eat for 3 months. As for labour though it was silent labour untill time came for pushing and then my god never have i felt such pain in my life. I am thankful it was only for 3 hours. But i had to have a cut performed which meant stiches. Now mobilty is severely affected by stiches especilly as many as i had. Took 3 weeks to feel normal again.
If you have to have a c-section your are not allowed to lift for 6 weeks after.
Despite all this i would have another as the joy my son has brought to us is undescrible. But not for 3 years at least as my mind needs to forget how awful pregnancy was and the birth and the while afterwards.
So hmm that really is the same to being kicked in the nuts eh? If you still think this then you are deluded. If i had the choice over childbirth or kick in the nuts then i'd defintly choose kick in the nuts.
Women do not get extra time of because we are "special". It's based on the effect it has on our bodies. We need to recover physically where men do not as they will never go through what women have to, to bring children into the world.
But on the topic perhaps a bit longer than 2 weeks for dads. The first 3 months are a zombie sleep deprived blur!!
A memory from way way back.........between Swiney and Lybster at the Reisgill Bridge...
Several people including a very pregnant woman were traveling North on the A9 with an Auld Horsie and kert!
They saw my Mother in the garden and stopped and asked if we could give them an old blanket and some milk....We had little then, but my Mother gave them what she could.
It was a cold raw night, and in the morning they came back to asked for milk for e bairnie that was born at the side o' e road!
Altho' I was quite young I shall always remember that. How things have changed...yes...for the better!
This is the situation presently in Canada/ I don't know about the UK.
Paternity in the UK I know nothing of..........
Good, at least we've estabished that.
Now would be a good time to butt out.....
Good, at least we've estabished that.
Now would be a good time to butt out.....
I don't know if again that is a 'personal' moment by you to me, but I think we should learn from other's experiences.
I made a comment .......You asked a Q.....I answered.... Hmm.......
The Colonies were created by the Great British Empire/ perhaps now that the 'Colonies' have lives of their own, some credence should/could be taken from our experiences!
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