View Full Version : Meat
For some time now I have been considering my options,
a decision, simply must be made.
I am one of those old fashioned people whose education started in the home, and carried on throughout my school days,
Home economics was not what I considered my strong point except when it came to cooking, where I excelled.
Meals created by me are stuck in a timewarp and in particular the meat courses,
regardless of cut of meat, it simply has to be, so & so, anything else is disregarded as not good enough,
of course these days, cuts of meat are smaller as are other ingredients in some way contributing to portion control (which is something else, I personally have little time for and don't as a matter course, practice).
Going all out to buy from only the best butchers, with the best reputation and knowledge of his trade, and ultimately, only the best meat he had to offer.
Meat, in some way contributes to every meal in any 24 hr period,
Breakfast;
Sausages, Bacon, Steak, Liver, or fish depending on who is being catered for,
Lunch, could be nearly anything but nearly always meat based;
Cold meats, ham, tongue, roast beef, corned beef, roast pork, roast lamb, all neatly sliced and on a sandwich,
then there is fish,
Salmon, Tuna, Mackerel, Sardines,
Dinner;
Soup made with meat stock,
Fish course,
Fish,
Main Meal;
Meat, and at least two veg or Salad.
Dessert;
No meat.
In my time, I have catered for people from all over the world, and for dignitries from here, as well as vegetarians and vegans and others with dietary needs.
On my menus,
Kangaroo, Crocodile Tail and other exotic foods could be found, as well as almost any Fish, Game, Poultry, Beef, Lamb and of course, Pork.
It could be said, I love my meat.
however, in the very recent past I have started to not like it very much my tastes are changing perhaps? or is it the way we are producing our food?
I am unsure why, but I am giving serious consideration as to vegetarianism,
and that in itself is a whole other ball game,
I believe that with all the sudden public awareness over the last few years, with regard to the food we consume has contributed greatly to my own view of food,
Do any other Chefs/ Cooks/ Public persons feel as I do,
have you stopped eating meat or fish because you do not like the way it is produced or have you never liked meat?
On another post of mine on the org, a member mentions the human consumption of dogs in some countries, which ultimately led me here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat
Once upon a time, I did not understand vegetarians or vegans, I could not see their point, I worried, were they getting enough of what their bodies needed from vegetables, cereals & pulses.
I hated cooking for vegetarians and vegans, in my opinion were worse.
Suffice to add, I no longer feel this way.
northener
10-Jan-11, 21:31
My favourite 'guru' (for want of a better word) when it comes to all things culinary is Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall, a man who is known for his enthusiasm for eating meat.
But he states he is of the opinion that we eat far too much meat here in the UK. His attitude is that we should eat less, but better quality, meat. An opinion that I wholeheartedly agree with.
I would say an increased awareness of our meats provenance and a better understanding of what constitutes good, healthy, animal husbandry is the way forward here. The supermarket mantra that 'cheap is good' (to be chanted by the masses in an chillingly Orwellian manner) is to be resisted at all costs.
Me? I like a lot of veggie food, I have no problem with eating well prepared veggie nosh at all...but I do like me steaks, bacon butties....and, today, a casserole pot full of rabbit stewed in cider with honey. Cheers for that recipe, Mr Hugh.:cool:
Your choice, Commore:Razz
I have started eating more healthy many years ago.
Nowadays I try to buy meat and other food locally to support local farmers.
Have noticed that local meat doesn't seem to shrink to half of its size compared to supermarket meat.
I do avoid supermarket poultry due to the circumstances they're raised and only buy local free range chicken and duck eggs.
However, we are responsible for battery hens and other ways of breeding / keeping animals because we want cheap meet.
For example, it's been exposed on TV how cheap sausages are made - hardly any meat in there but bones, fat etc. but people still eat them.
Unless we change this won't change I'm afraid.
And this applies not only for the way we eat but also the way we live ... sadly ...
Whitewater
10-Jan-11, 21:54
Tastes do change over time, and I must admit that I often have meat free dishes. That is not because I'm tired of meat but just the way I've been brought up since childhood, it has stayed with me and my wife is the same. Neither of us are vegetarians but we often eat meat free meals, but having said that I enjoy, steak, fish, pork, lamb etc. but again not because I'm a dedicated meat eater, it is there, on hand and if I fancy it I'll eat it.
Since I've been a very young my diet has probably been about 60/40 meat orientated, very seldom do I have the traditional full breakfast, usually porrige or some other cereal, lunch is more often than not soup and a roll, dinner could be a nice pasta with a vegatable sauce, or even a meat sauce, sometimes meat in one form or another, and often fish. It mainly depends on what is in the house, how hungry we feel or if we are having any of the grandchildren visiting, we just cook and eat according to our mood or our visitors tastes. Food is not a big deal, but we enjoy it, and when we are away we always visit good resturants, enjoy the menu, and if we are in one place for any length of time we have a tendancy to work our way through the menu.
I just like good food, no fads about being a vegetarian or a dedicated meat eater. I'm not bothered too much about what I eat as long as it is good quality.
Food is there to be enjoyed.
orkneycadian
10-Jan-11, 22:14
However, we are responsible for battery hens and other ways of breeding / keeping animals because we want cheap meet.
Should that be cheap meet or cheep meat? [lol]
ShelleyCowie
10-Jan-11, 23:04
In our house, we love meat! I do try to do different things with it though rather than just having the same things over and over! Lately iv made it a challenge for me to try lots of new things (some of my friends on the org saw the drama on facebook last night with the ham)
I dont want the kids to assosiate Pork Chops with being...just pork chops! This week i plan on stuffing them with mozzerella (sp) and wrapping bacon around it then doing a light cheese sauce with cauliflower.
I can taste the difference in cheap meat and good quality meat. Can tell not by taste but by texture and colour too.
Does anyone know if our local butchers sell the "off-cuts" (the bits most people dont want) because sometimes they are the best things for making soups and stews! Im to embarrassed to ask :lol:
Anyways, meat is an important part in our meals although it is surrounded by lots of other things too! I love veg, could sit and eat a plate of sprouts quite happily! But my husband isnt keen on them and the kids will eat them on occassion! (i sneak veg into everything though) [lol]
Purely personal choice. You don't have to worry about not getting enough of what is good for you if you don't eat meat. We are perfectly adapted to a meat free diet and you don't need any supplements.
Veggies are less prone to heart disease and are very likely to have lower Cholesterol. We might even live longer-I'll let you know ;)
changilass
11-Jan-11, 01:04
If being a 'veggie' makes you live longer, then I am more than happy to continue with my fillet steaks and pork thank you very muchness.
Family tree already says we normally last till at least 80.
lindsaymcc
11-Jan-11, 11:14
Meat lovers here too! Although, we try to have 2 or 3 veggie meals per week - macaroni cheese/quorn curry/spinach and tomato canneloni that sort of thing.
I do find chicken especially very expensive, and tend to therefore substitute with Quorn, and also always have quorn mince for spag bol/pasta bake type things.
My favourite meat is lamb, but as hubby doesnt like it, I dont have it often. If I can pick it up cheap in Tesco, I will but otherwise its pork steaks, mince and stewing steak.
It helps that my girls have school dinners, so we only actually cook for 2 adults and a toddler 5 days a week, so we are able to perhaps substitute a "main meal" with something like beans on toast or some such.
In the forthcoming "hard times" we all need to be more responsible for what we eating and not going overboard - I for one am prone to over-eating and snacking when in reality, our bodies dont need it!
Always been a meat lover until about 18months ago when a health issue forced me to look at diet. After research and speaking with my consultant I asked if there would be any benefit in cutting down on red meat an dwas advised to try it I stopped eating red meat and took a scunner to chicken but still eat fish. The results were amazing last time I saw the consultant and he was really pleased. I am not saying I will never eat red meat again, if I take a notion for it I will have it. I still cook it for OH and family but only buy meat from the butcher when I know where it is sourced from.
Always been a meat lover until about 18months ago when a health issue forced me to look at diet. After research and speaking with my consultant I asked if there would be any benefit in cutting down on red meat an dwas advised to try it I stopped eating red meat and took a scunner to chicken but still eat fish. The results were amazing last time I saw the consultant and he was really pleased. I am not saying I will never eat red meat again, if I take a notion for it I will have it. I still cook it for OH and family but only buy meat from the butcher when I know where it is sourced from.
My father has health issues and has not eaten red meat for some considerable time,
I myself have also had some health issues but could not give up red meat altogether, in saying that I am all of dither at the moment and think maybe I should
but I do love steaks etc,
I have enjoyed reading all of these posts, most have made some very valid points,
perhaps, I shall follow suit and cut down my intake of meat, maybe try something different altogether.
:) C.
I was brought up with meat. Meat, especially chicken, was a staple in my diet for years. Both sides of my family ate meat in large quantities & it would be a form of sacrilege to plan a meal & not to contemplate a form of meat on the plate.
However, as I got older, I started to think about meat. Why do we feel we need meat? Is it essential? Will we die without it? Studies have shown that non-meat eaters live a longer healthier live than your average meat eater. Eating a well balanced diet (this is the hard part, it's easy to eat large amounts of cheese & other dairy products, but this will lead to high cholestrol, so a well balanced, well thought out diet is essential, low iron is another common problem in a poorly planned vege diet) will provide you with all the nutrients that you'll ever need, all without meat.
Societies for centuries have used the land before them to provide themselves with all their dietary needs. This is why christmas is celebrated, the sun rising again to ensure growth for new crops. Hence a successful year ahead. Only reason meat was consumed was because of drought & famine. After all, animals are always there, they feed more mouths, & it's easier. It's an easier more practical option to kill a chicken, pig, cow, fish etc. than to look after your own crops every day for a year.
If everyone on the planet were to become vege, & to grow our own food (at least most of your daily requirements) the world would be a far more pleasant place to live. The enviroment would be cleaner, there'd be less waste & with the responsibility & the fulfillment that you get from growing your own food the world would be a far more harmonius place.
& I firmly believe that the ultimate goal is veganism. We shouldn't use animals for our own benefit. After all, who are we & what right have we got?
I was brought up with meat. Meat, especially chicken, was a staple in my diet for years. Both sides of my family ate meat in large quantities & it would be a form of sacrilege to plan a meal & not to contemplate a form of meat on the plate.
However, as I got older, I started to think about meat. Why do we feel we need meat? Is it essential? Will we die without it? Studies have shown that non-meat eaters live a longer healthier live than your average meat eater. Eating a well balanced diet (this is the hard part, it's easy to eat large amounts of cheese & other dairy products, but this will lead to high cholestrol, so a well balanced, well thought out diet is essential, low iron is another common problem in a poorly planned vege diet) will provide you with all the nutrients that you'll ever need, all without meat.
Societies for centuries have used the land before them to provide themselves with all their dietary needs. This is why christmas is celebrated, the sun rising again to ensure growth for new crops. Hence a successful year ahead. Only reason meat was consumed was because of drought & famine. After all, animals are always there, they feed more mouths, & it's easier. It's an easier more practical option to kill a chicken, pig, cow, fish etc. than to look after your own crops every day for a year.
If everyone on the planet were to become vege, & to grow our own food (at least most of your daily requirements) the world would be a far more pleasant place to live. The enviroment would be cleaner, there'd be less waste & with the responsibility & the fulfillment that you get from growing your own food the world would be a far more harmonius place.
& I firmly believe that the ultimate goal is veganism. We shouldn't use animals for our own benefit. After all, who are we & what right have we got?
This is the main reason I am in a dither, I don't like what I am seeing, in farming in this country and in other countries.
This is not the first time I have felt this way, but until now I have successfully ignored it,
I am very much against "battery farming" and talk of these large super farm operations for milk and beef whereby the animals never see the light of day.
I am a farmer's wife, and for the most part I enjoy our lifestyle, of growing our own food, breeding our animals for food, taking pride in what we succeed in producing,
but I cannot help but think that it is cruel too.
I have been vegetarian since I was 16 as I am passionate about all animals and so didn't want to eat them! I couldn't bear the thought of the coos I saw in the field next to my house ending up on my plate some day.
If I was to eat meat (not that I ever will now!!!) I would have to know that it came from a farm with the highest welfare standards. I do feed meat to my pets and apply the same principles to their food.
Cutting down on red meat consumption is definitely better for health and most people would do well to have at least one meat free day per week.
I wish more people would think about where their meat, dairy and eggs come from as the poor animals who are intensively farmed suffer so much.
I have been vegetarian since I was 16 as I am passionate about all animals and so didn't want to eat them! I couldn't bear the thought of the coos I saw in the field next to my house ending up on my plate some day.
I understand your point of view and won't argue with any vegan/vegetarian (that's their choice).
But if everybody stopped eating meat or animal products tomorrow cows etc would probably disappear as they can't live without human intervention.
I also believe I read somewhere that, without meat, there is not enough farmland in the world to support the current population? I'm not sure how much truth there is in that but it's definately food for thought.
But if everybody stopped eating meat or animal products tomorrow cows etc would probably disappear as they can't live without human intervention.
I also believe I read somewhere that, without meat, there is not enough farmland in the world to support the current population? I'm not sure how much truth there is in that but it's definately food for thought.
Both these statements are nothing short of sharn. (sorry for the pun) Where did cows come from in the first place? It certainly wasn't from human intervention. & if everyone were vege there wouldn't need to be as much farmland as animals take up more room in a field than crop growing.
A recent survey compared the health of 6500 Chinese peasants subsisting on rice, vegetables and beans with a similar number of Westerners. Despite the much more primitive level of health care, some lived more than 100 miles from the nearest health center and had almost no knowledge of what Western science considers to be a healthy diet, the peasants were dramatically healthier than the average Westerner on their non meat eating diet.
Both these statements are nothing short of sharn. (sorry for the pun) Where did cows come from in the first place? It certainly wasn't from human intervention. & if everyone were vege there wouldn't need to be as much farmland as animals take up more room in a field than crop growing.
Cows of course evolved from animals that never required human intervention, but the fact is the modern day cow cannot live without it. Ask any farmer. It's not disimilar to modern day dogs. Their ancestors (wolves) could survive in the wild but most modern domestic breeds can't.
Animals obviously take up more ground than a carrot or a cabbage, but "per calorie" I thought I read that animal rearing (especially pork) is more efficient than than many vegetables. There are many crops such as potatoes and rice that provide higher yields though, but not all available farmland is suitable for these.
Meats such as lamb and mutton are useful in the fact that they can be produced on land otherwise unsuitable for agriculture. It only takes a drive west of Melvich to see that!
Less meat saves lives.
At least that is what the report says - cutting meat to 3 meals a week would save 45,000 lives annually in the UK.
how many then would be saved by reducing it to zero! not to mention the sheer number of animals that would not be killed while still in their youth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ear...000-lives.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/8042085/Cutting-meat-to-3-meals-a-week-will-save-45000-lives.html)
Cows of course evolved from animals that never required human intervention, but the fact is the modern day cow cannot live without it. Ask any farmer. It's not disimilar to modern day dogs. Their ancestors (wolves) could survive in the wild but most modern domestic breeds can't.
Animals obviously take up more ground than a carrot or a cabbage, but "per calorie" I thought I read that animal rearing (especially pork) is more efficient than than many vegetables. There are many crops such as potatoes and rice that provide higher yields though, but not all available farmland is suitable for these.
Meats such as lamb and mutton are useful in the fact that they can be produced on land otherwise unsuitable for agriculture. It only takes a drive west of Melvich to see that!
But who wants a "modern day cow"? I'd far prefer to see a handful of traditional cows roaming happily in a field rather than a hundred modern day cows being used for slaughter... & in regards to land unsuitable for agriculture, a field seemingly worthless for any use can be planted with hemp, hemp improves CO2 by 80% & can be made into 85% of mans materials.
& yes, it's very unlikely that a domestic animal could survive in the wild, but by having a pet we're getting in touch with nature & are forming a bond & love for that animal like a family member. Thus, understanding animals thoughts, feelings & emtions.
There's absolutley no difference in my mind between killing an animal or a human.
[QUOTE=pumkin;808145]Less meat saves lives.
At least that is what the report says - cutting meat to 3 meals a week would save 45,000 lives annually in the UK.
how many then would be saved by reducing it to zero! not to mention the sheer number of animals that would not be killed while still in their youth.
QUOTE (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ear...000-lives.html[/COLOR][/URL][/QUOTE)]
Couldn't have said it better myself! I'd rep you for that if I hadn't ran out ;)
Shabbychic
12-Jan-11, 02:56
It's so nice to see a thread about vegetarianism with sensible discussion, rather than the usual denigration of non meat eaters.:D
I have been an "almost" vegan, (I eat honey) for a good few years now, and I must admit I don't miss meat one bit. In the latter years, before I took the final plunge, I usually only ate tuna, chicken or turkey. To be honest, I had begun to be scunnered when I ate other meats. So in the end, I didn't really miss meat or dairy.
One benefit has been the total eradication of the IBS I suffered for years, and that in itself was worth changing my diet for. I can also look at the animals in the fields surrounding my house and say, "Not in my name."
I also really enjoy my meals now, and even my meat-eating hubbie, regularly has what I am eating, and enjoys it.:eek:
All I can say is, if anyone is thinking along vegetarian lines, just give it a try for a few months. You never know, you might just like it.:)
But who wants a "modern day cow"?
People who enjoy a steak and a pint of milk. Cows have been bred for millenia to be productive.
I'd far prefer to see a handful of traditional cows roaming happily in a field rather than a hundred modern day cows being used for slaughter... .
What's a "traditional cow"? The closest thing still in existance would probably be buffalo or bison? Hardly indigenous to Caithness I would have thought.
And who is going to supply and maintain a field for animals with no commercial value? And will there be any spare fields left after the mass hemp planting program?
in regards to land unsuitable for agriculture, a field seemingly worthless for any use can be planted with hemp, hemp improves CO2 by 80% & can be made into 85% of mans materials.
Hemp "improves C02" by 80%. That's an amazing statistic. How much would we have to plant to see this 80% reduction of world C02 levels?
85% of mans materials? I've heard of it being made into fabric, paper and even as an ingredient in building blocks, but 85% of mans materials???????
There's absolutley no difference in my mind between killing an animal or a human.
I don't doubt that there isn't.
I'm glad however that, for the sake of humanity, the majority of the world population don't agree with you. I'd always value the life of a human over that of an animal.
According to the Social and Economic Research Institute 75million people worldwide chose to be vegetarian. In a world of 6 billion thats about 1.25%.
I think having strong views on such a subject is an admirable thing, butI can't help wonder if you're letting your heart rule your mind.
As I said before, I've no problem with people who chose to go veggie. Good on them and each to their own. In return all I ask is that the other 98.75% of us are allowed to eat as we chose also.
northener
12-Jan-11, 09:19
But who wants a "modern day cow"?........
Ooooh, lots of people I guess.
Stick some designer glasses on it, hang a handbag by Bosboom off it's horns and sprinkle the coo with glitter...I reckon they'd catch on. Don't forget the 'CowPod' either:Razz
People who enjoy a steak and a pint of milk. Cows have been bred for millenia to be productive.
What's a "traditional cow"? The closest thing still in existance would probably be buffalo or bison? Hardly indigenous to Caithness I would have thought.
And who is going to supply and maintain a field for animals with no commercial value? And will there be any spare fields left after the mass hemp planting program?
Hemp "improves C02" by 80%. That's an amazing statistic. How much would we have to plant to see this 80% reduction of world C02 levels?
85% of mans materials? I've heard of it being made into fabric, paper and even as an ingredient in building blocks, but 85% of mans materials???????
I don't doubt that there isn't.
I'm glad however that, for the sake of humanity, the majority of the world population don't agree with you. I'd always value the life of a human over that of an animal.
According to the Social and Economic Research Institute 75million people worldwide chose to be vegetarian. In a world of 6 billion thats about 1.25%.
I think having strong views on such a subject is an admirable thing, butI can't help wonder if you're letting your heart rule your mind.
As I said before, I've no problem with people who chose to go veggie. Good on them and each to their own. In return all I ask is that the other 98.75% of us are allowed to eat as we chose also.
Yes, indeed cow has been bred for millenia for our benefit, however they were used for pulling along carts & plows & also used for their milk. They weren't used to be chopped up & eaten. Did you know that in India (where the cow originated from) the slaughter of all cows is forbidden in almost all of the states in the Indian Union? & the reason for the majority of Hindu-Muslim riots is because of the slaughter of a cow? & even the fast food chain McDonald's won't sell cow in their restraunts in India! :eek:
Also the enviromental damage that the enormous number of cows (1.5billion cows on planet earth!) is responsible for 18% of the greenhouse gases according to the United Nations report from the Food & Agricultural Association.
& also the amount of people in the world that are vegetarian is 2.8% with an additional 2.8% being vegan according to the Harris Poll for the US Government.
I understand your point of view and won't argue with any vegan/vegetarian (that's their choice).
But if everybody stopped eating meat or animal products tomorrow cows etc would probably disappear as they can't live without human intervention.
I also believe I read somewhere that, without meat, there is not enough farmland in the world to support the current population? I'm not sure how much truth there is in that but it's definately food for thought.
I didn't say everyone should stop eating meat. It was my choice as I couldn't bear to eat an animal.
In the other part of my post I said, for the sake of peoples' health it would be a good idea to have at least one meat free day per week and not that they should cut it out altogether.
The Drunken Duck
12-Jan-11, 14:54
I have had a few people try to convince me to eat less meat, are there health benefits to that ??, of course. But as humans are omnivores (you only have to look at our teeth) I think a balance in both is the best option. Ultimatly we are all dead anyway, I for one would be a tad miffed if I found myself at the pearly gates after being hit by a bus when I had denied myself steak and bacon rolls to avoid that very scenario.
I tried a meat free diet once. Worst day of my life. I dont see a problem with eating animals, in fact Mother Nature seems to encourage it amongst quite a lot of her creations .. thats's good enough for me.
northener
12-Jan-11, 15:24
Yes, indeed cow has been bred for millenia for our benefit, however they were used for pulling along carts & plows & also used for their milk. They weren't used to be chopped up & eaten.
Actually they were eaten. The ability to over-winter more than a couple of animals was a problem right up until relatively recently. The prime breeders were kept and the rest were slaughtered. Going back to Neolithic times, the wild cattle (there's a couple of sub-species, neither of which originated in India) were killed for meat originally. Only when man made the move from being hunter gatherers to being farmers did the switch to cattle 'ownership' take place. And they still ate them then.
Did you know that in India (where the cow originated from) the slaughter of all cows is forbidden in almost all of the stated in the Indian Union? & the reason for the majority of Hindu-Muslim riots is because of the slaughter of a cow?....
Historically there has always been clashes between the Hindu and Muslim communities regarding cattle slaughter, but to suggest that this is the reason for the 'majority' of Hindu/Muslim clashes is rather mendacious.....:Razz
Actually they were eaten. The ability to over-winter more than a couple of animals was a problem right up until relatively recently. The prime breeders were kept and the rest were slaughtered. Going back to Neolithic times, the wild cattle (there's a couple of sub-species, neither of which originated in India) were killed for meat originally. Only when man made the move from being hunter gatherers to being farmers did the switch to cattle 'ownership' take place. And they still ate them then.
Historically there has always been clashes between the Hindu and Muslim communities regarding cattle slaughter, but to suggest that this is the reason for the 'majority' of Hindu/Muslim clashes is rather mendacious.....:Razz
Originally, actually, they were not eaten. They were worshipped as it was the age of taurus the bull. Cows, in many societies, were worshipped & were treated as members of the family. The cow was treated as a symbol of motherhood due to her being able to provide milk
http://www.saching.com/Article/Hindus-and-sacred-cow---Why-do-Hindus-worship-cows-in-India--Beef-consumption-in-India/123
& also here, a better far more informative article
http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/sacred-cow.html
& also, cow is native to india, I had an ebook on my other computer, but this is the closest I can find for now unfortunately...
http://askville.amazon.com/cows-originally/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2193692
& also on my other computer I had an ebook regarding the problems between Hindu's-Muslim's regarding the slaughtering of cows, unfortunately, again, this is all I can find for now...
http://askville.amazon.com/cows-originally/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2193692
Yes, indeed cow has been bred for millenia for our benefit, however they were used for pulling along carts & plows & also used for their milk. They weren't used to be chopped up & eaten. Did you know that in India (where the cow originated from) the slaughter of all cows is forbidden in almost all of the states in the Indian Union? & the reason for the majority of Hindu-Muslim riots is because of the slaughter of a cow? & even the fast food chain McDonald's won't sell cow in their restraunts in India! :eek:
.
Yes, I'm aware that Hindu's see cows as sacred and don't eat beef. I'm also aware they believe in reincarnation. I don't agree with them on that either.
Many Jews and Muslims won't eat pork but will eat beef. Who's to say who's right or wrong? Each to their own.
& also the amount of people in the world that are vegetarian is 2.8% with an additional 2.8% being vegan according to the Harris Poll for the US Government.
There's a number of statistics out there, it depends who you want to believe. My figure only included those who CHOSE to be vegetarian, not those who aren't in the position to chose. In America, where the poll was conducted, wealth, as in much of the western world, allows for choice.
Even if the 2.8% figure is correct, I'll edit my original statement to ask that the other 97.2% of us are allowed to eat as we chose also.
& also on my other computer I had an ebook regarding the problems between Hindu's-Muslim's regarding the slaughtering of cows, unfortunately, again, this is all I can find for now...
http://askville.amazon.com/cows-originally/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2193692
Religious intolerance goes much further than who eats what meat.
I would suggest that riots between muslims and hindus due to the slaughter of an animal is a stronger argument for secularism than for vegetarianism.
northener
12-Jan-11, 23:02
Originally, actually, they were not eaten. They were worshipped as it was the age of taurus the bull.
Can you tell me exactly when this 'Age of Taurus the Bull' fits in with modern understanding of Archaeology? I've never heard of it...but I am aware of Neolithic, Bronze Age and later finds that show evidence of wild cattle being hunted and eaten.
(EDIT): Do you mean the Tarantian Epoch of the Pleistocene Period?
http://www.saching.com/Article/Hindus-and-sacred-cow---Why-do-Hindus-worship-cows-in-India--Beef-consumption-in-India/123
& also here, a better far more informative article
http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/sacred-cow.html
Neither of these back up your claim that cattle were not eaten but simply used as beasts of burden and 'not chopped to bits', they merely relate to India specifically. The rest of mankind was happily chomping away on bits of cow in the Middle East and Europe......
& also, cow is native to india, I had an ebook on my other computer, but this is the closest I can find for now unfortunately...
http://askville.amazon.com/cows-originally/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2193692
You stated that cattle ORIGINATED in India. Now you're saying that cattle are 'native' to India. A totally different statement. Auroch and other sub specie were roaming what is now the UK and Europe well befor the Hindu religion existed..and there's plenty of evidence that they were hunted hundreds (and possibly thousands of years) before being domesticated.
& also on my other computer I had an ebook regarding the problems between Hindu's-Muslim's regarding the slaughtering of cows, unfortunately, again, this is all I can find for now...
http://askville.amazon.com/cows-originally/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2193692 (http://askville.amazon.com/cows-originally/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2193692)
I say again, I'll grant you that. But if you bother to read anything not cow related about Indian unrest, you'll realise that they were fighting about many issues, not just beefburgers. The small matter of partitioning off Bangladesh and Pakistan spring to mind.....possibly a case of the cattle issues merely inflaming already existing difficulties maybe?
I have no problem with your attitude towards eating meat, or regarding your idea that the world would be a better place without meat production. It is a system in which I can see merit. But I'm not convinced by anyhting you've put regarding the history of cattle use- apart from possibly the bit about the ancestors of cattle being from what is now the Indian subcontinent.
But that's going way back before what we are discussing here, for our purposes, cattle were native wild species established in Europe by the time man was hunting and eventually domesticating them.
northener
12-Jan-11, 23:03
.............I would suggest that riots between muslims and hindus due to the slaughter of an animal is a stronger argument for secularism than for vegetarianism.
Gets my vote straight away.
The Music Monster
12-Jan-11, 23:23
We always used to go vegetarian when they brought the cows out in the Spring. Mum couldn't bear the thought of eating them. I guess in the winter it was a case of "out of sight, out of mind"!
I won't comment on religious issues, but although I'm not a vegetarian, I have a great deal of respect for those who feel that they should be - whether because of conscience or faith.
Can you tell me exactly when this 'Age of Taurus the Bull' fits in with modern understanding of Archaeology? I've never heard of it...but I am aware of Neolithic, Bronze Age and later finds that show evidence of wild cattle being hunted and eaten.
(EDIT): Do you mean the Tarantian Epoch of the Pleistocene Period?
The "Ages" are what is known as the current time frame that we live in. We are, at this moment in time, in the age of Pisces & are awaiting the the dawning of Aquarius. Many argue that the dawning of Aquarius is the likely outcome of the 2012 theories. Jesus was the one to announce the age of Aquarius by saying, "And then the man who bears the pitcher will walk forth across an arc of heaven; the sign and signet of the Son of Man will stand forth in the eastern sky. The wise will then lift up their heads and know that the redemption of the earth is near."
Here's some further reading on the ages...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age
http://www.carnaval.com/taurus/
& here's a great article that goes into great detail about each of the ages, a very worthwhile read :)
http://www.greatdreams.com/ages.htm
northener
13-Jan-11, 16:28
The "Ages" are what is known as the current time frame that we live in. We are, at this moment in time, in the age of Pisces & are awaiting the the dawning of Aquarius. Many argue that the dawning of Aquarius is the likely outcome of the 2012 theories. Jesus was the one to announce the age of Aquarius by saying, "And then the man who bears the pitcher will walk forth across an arc of heaven; the sign and signet of the Son of Man will stand forth in the eastern sky. The wise will then lift up their heads and know that the redemption of the earth is near."
Here's some further reading on the ages...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age
http://www.carnaval.com/taurus/
& here's a great article that goes into great detail about each of the ages, a very worthwhile read :)
http://www.greatdreams.com/ages.htm
Right, with you now. I thought it was maybe another academic name for a period of history that I wasn't familiar with. Looks interesting.
Right, with you now. I thought it was maybe another academic name for a period of history that I wasn't familiar with. Looks interesting.
Yeah man it's interesting to the point how the world & man has evolved throughout the ages. Each "age" is a new chapter.
AGE OF PISCES
THE BEGINNING OF THE BIG RELIGIONS
+/- 300 BC - 1900 AD ???? (This is the big debate)
The Age of Pisces has been dominated largely by religion, Christianity in particular, with its peculiar mixture of persecution and spiritual salvation.
The vernal point is the location of the sun in the sidereal zodiac on the day of the spring equinox. Our present tropical calender and zodiac places this as 1 degree Aries, when in fact, due to the precession, every 72 years it is 1 degree backwards in the zodiac. As of February 10, 1983, the longitude of the vernal point was exactly 5 1/2 degrees Pisces in the sidereal zodiac. For this reason, we live in the ASTRONOMICAL AGE of Pisces.
The AGE of PISCES is related to WATER, NEPTUNE and the subconscious mind. All human bodies are roughly 90% sea water, we each, must also take in new water daily. These are two very important similarities between all Homo Sapiens. "We" are all connected in several other ways too!
The AGE of PISCES is/was a period when "evil" or the "dark side" of the Human Mind controlled civilization. FEAR has been humanity's primary motivation to act, for over two thousands years. Unreasonable FEAR.
That is why wise Ancient's hid as much valuable information as possible, to preserve it. They knew society was going into a long term decline and much of the important stuff would be destroyed or misinterpreted, intentionally and unintentionally. Human being's ego's make them make many mistakes when interpreting the past but nobody's around to refute that opinion. Convenient.
The beginning of AGE of PISCES should be dated from the Birth of Buddha. Buddha came from an angel. That was several hundred years before Jesus Christ was born from a virgin. The AGE of PISCES is best characterized by the above two guys, their spiritual philosophy's and another profit named Mohammed. 3 great religions have come upon Earth during the AGE of PISCES, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam.
Christianity has come to dominate the planet during the AGE of PISCES because of it's inherent violence. Along with it's hypocrisy and GREED. Christian's shouldn't be to worried about remaining in power because the Moslems are only following the examples set by the ruling Christians. NOT!.
The WORLD has been at WAR since the beginning of the PISCES AGE. During this period the huge Chinese Empire became fragmented from internal bickering and from outside intruders.
Many very cruel things were also done to human beings by their fellow Humans[?] during this period. Examples:
Adolph Hitler [Germany], Joseph Stalin [Russia], Pol Pot [Cambodia], Radovan Karadzic [Bosnia], genocide in AFRICA and the infamous Spanish Inquisition have killed hundreds of millions of people.
The Pisces Star Chart and Scholarship (http://www.mazzaroth.com/InsertSix/PiscesStarChart.htm)
The Aquarius Star Chart and Scholarship (http://www.mazzaroth.com/InsertSeven/AquariusStarChart.htm)
http://www.greatdreams.com/precess3.gif
Yeah man it's interesting to the point how the world & man has evolved throughout the ages. Each "age" is a new chapter.
But what has that got to do with the price of a pound of best fillet steak????
But what has that got to do with the price of a pound of best fillet steak????
Well, if you had read the post which initally got us onto the topic of the ages, you'd see that we were speaking of Taurus the Bull. Where Taurus was the dawn of agriculture...
AGE OF TAURUS
CONTROL OF EARTH, AGRICULTURE
+/- 4700 BC- 2500 BC
The AGE of TAURUS is about the control of EARTH. EARTH in the form the king's land. EARTH "holds" WATER.
In the Age of Taurus, agriculture was discovered, and for the first time, towns, villages, and cities were formed because humans no longer needed to hunt and gather for their food and so were not required to be so nomadic.
The "AGE" of TAURUS is probably best characterized by the Great Pyramid of Egypt. Plus there are many other huge structures from that period that still exist in Egypt and the Valley of the Nile. All these giant buildings were monuments to the Pharaoh's [kings or queens] or GODS of that ancient Egyptian Civilization.
Most Egyptian Pyramids have great ASTROLOGICAL as well Astronomical significance. The Pyramids also have major GEOMETRIC and MATHEMATICAL importance. These incredible EGYPTIAN remains are some of today's most popular tourist attractions.
The age of the Great Walled cities; Babylon and Sumeria are also included in the "AGE" of TAURUS, the age of Homelands. With a huge wall around a city-state it was virtually impregnable. People couldn't get out either. The AGE of TAURUS is also when the Chinese Empire began. These people were an organized civilization since even before that time.
With you there, my thread like my body has gone haywire............:)
Metalattakk
13-Jan-11, 17:40
What the....???
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z55/Metalattakk/thread_direction.gif
What the....???
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z55/Metalattakk/thread_direction.gif
Ah bless you
You made me smile........:)
northener
13-Jan-11, 22:17
..................:Razz
"I do avoid supermarket poultry due to the circumstances they're raised" - keep reading this, just had a look at Tesco's chickens (well it's THE supermarket up here).. Interesting read:
As a result of its worldwide popularity, chicken is at the forefront of new farming developments. Our UK chicken is sourced from all parts of the country, including Scotland, East Anglia, Lincolnshire and Northern Ireland.
Any chicken sourced from abroad are reared to the same high standards that our British chicken is. These standards apply to all aspects of the chicken supply chain, from the breeding chickens to the birds we eat. Each Tesco chicken can be traced back to the farm it was reared on.
We have 5 different standards of production for chicken at Tesco:
Standard/Value chickens
Willow Farm chickens
Free range chickens
Finest corn fed free range chickens
Organic chickens (Continued)
http://www.tescofarming.com/v2/livestock_chicken.asp
I think, generally, the consumer has a choice when buying meat.
If they chose, they can buy "ethically" reared meat to varying levels, organic, freerange etc. Bekismans link seems to show that major supermarkets offer this, and I'm sure your local butcher can tell you the origin of their meat.
I think the most common complaints against supermarket meat is the quality and not the origin. Supermarkets tend to "tart up" meat to look appealing when on the shelf, but the look does not always match the quality.
I love meat, but am not feeling good about how raising animals for food uses up precious resources. More than 70 percent of the grain and cereals that we grow are fed to farmed animals.
It takes up to 16 pounds of grain to produce just 1 pound of meat, and even fish on fish farms must be fed up to 5 pounds of wild-caught fish to produce 1 pound of farmed fish flesh.
It takes more than 11 times as much fossil fuel to make one calorie from animal protein as it does to make one calorie from plant protein. It takes more than 2,400 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of meat, while growing 1 pound of wheat only requires 25 gallons. You save more water by not eating a pound of meat than you do by not showering for six months! Yikes.
So we are trying to be more earth friendly, while lowering our cholesterol as well.
Hey, I've lost the Senior Member note hahaha. does this mean you won't throw a party for my 10 year Orger anniversary next month? Wow, Feb 2001 seems a lifetime ago.
It takes up to 16 pounds of grain to produce just 1 pound of meat, and even fish on fish farms must be fed up to 5 pounds of wild-caught fish to produce 1 pound of farmed fish flesh.
It takes more than 11 times as much fossil fuel to make one calorie from animal protein as it does to make one calorie from plant protein. It takes more than 2,400 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of meat, while growing 1 pound of wheat only requires 25 gallons. You save more water by not eating a pound of meat than you do by not showering for six months! Yikes.
So we are trying to be more earth friendly, while lowering our cholesterol as well.
Interesting statistics, and certainly food for thought if you don't mind the pun!
I googled your post to see where they came from and it's the PETA website, "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals".
There is a slight irony that this group, with a title like that, conduct the campaigns they do. Here's a poster they distributed in America:
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/548/petacomicbook.gif (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/petacomicbook.gif/)
Here's another, featuring the Cancer victim and New York Mayor Giuliani with a milk moustache and the slogan "Got Prostate Cancer?" to put people off milk.
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8448/1141320.th.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/1141320.jpg/)
According to Wikipedia they also conducted a poster campaign in schools linking milk to acne, obesity, heart disease, cancer, and strokes!
Ethical???? I don't think so myself!
I love meat, but.........
I wouldn't shout that out in a PETA conference if I were you!
northener
14-Jan-11, 08:24
"I do avoid supermarket poultry due to the circumstances they're raised" - keep reading this, just had a look at Tesco's chickens (well it's THE supermarket up here).. Interesting read:
As a result of its worldwide popularity, chicken is at the forefront of new farming developments. Our UK chicken is sourced from all parts of the country, including Scotland, East Anglia, Lincolnshire and Northern Ireland.
Any chicken sourced from abroad are reared to the same high standards that our British chicken is. These standards apply to all aspects of the chicken supply chain, from the breeding chickens to the birds we eat. Each Tesco chicken can be traced back to the farm it was reared on.
We have 5 different standards of production for chicken at Tesco:
Standard/Value chickens
Willow Farm chickens
Free range chickens
Finest corn fed free range chickens
Organic chickens (Continued)
http://www.tescofarming.com/v2/livestock_chicken.asp
I wouldn't touch anything less than Organic from the supermarkets. Standard chickens are kept in the hen equivalent of concentration camps, 'Willow Farm' are allegedly kept to the RSPCA's 'Freedom Food' standard (IIRC) a system that is said by some to fall far short of what should be an attainable standard of animal welfare.
For an insight into how 'concerned' Tesco are about hen welfare - just read how they tried to block H F-W's attempts to improve the welfare of animals:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article4231173.ece
northener
14-Jan-11, 08:28
Interesting statistics, and certainly food for thought if you don't mind the pun!
I googled your post to see where they came from and it's the PETA website, "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals".
There is a slight irony that this group, with a title like that, conduct the campaigns they do. Here's a poster they distributed in America:
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/548/petacomicbook.gif (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/petacomicbook.gif/)
Here's another, featuring the Cancer victim and New York Mayor Giuliani with a milk moustache and the slogan "Got Prostate Cancer?" to put people off milk.
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/8448/1141320.th.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/1141320.jpg/)
According to Wikipedia they also conducted a poster campaign in schools linking milk to acne, obesity, heart disease, cancer, and strokes!
Ethical???? I don't think so myself!
I wouldn't shout that out in a PETA conference if I were you!
PETA?
I wouldn't urinate on them if they were on fire.
Still a lot to do.. but
'
He argues that Tesco has also failed to live up to its own standards and government guidelines — claims denied vehemently by the supermarket. Tescos says that, by selling standard chickens in its stores, it is helping to address the needs of households who cannot afford free-range birds.
David Reid, Tesco’s chairman, reiterated the supermarket’s case yesterday after two of Tesco’s suppliers rallied to their paymasters’ cause. “We absolutely believe we meet all the right and proper standards and in a number of areas exceed them. We take a leadership role in industry.
“The cost of our standard chicken is £2.90 per kilo. A Hugh Fearnley- Whittingstall chicken would be £8.99, three times as expensive. These are big differences. We believe in following the customer. If we given them the information, and continue to move forward on animal welfare, I’m sure everyone can end up in a better place.”
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article4228342.ece
Not using this as a comparison, but blinking heck; me & mrs Beks use this store when we're down there! yuk!:~(
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6836026.ece
And all of them Tasteless.
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