View Full Version : Yet another call for drugs to be legalised
Bob Ainsworth, An ex-minister who had responsibility for drugs policy has joined the growing list of people who want drugs to be legally available.
Ainsworth is the most senior politician to date to denounce the current drug laws in the UK
Whilst applauding his actions, I wonder why he did not make this call when Labour were in power.
Bob Ainsworth, An ex-minister who had responsibility for drugs policy has joined the growing list of people who want drugs to be legally available.
Ainsworth is the most senior politician to date to denounce the current drug laws in the UK
Whilst applauding his actions, I wonder why he did not make this call when Labour were in power.
Is that the same lot who changed the class of some drug or other, then changed their mind and put it back up? not sure of the terminology as don't use drugs - see no need to. Life can be exciting enough without stuffing one's brain full of chemicals (opps, forgot I drink occasional tea and coffee. but it don't make me 'happy' or 'depressed' or in fact give me a 'high'..)
IMHO Bob Ainsworth is to be commended for airing his views. Hard drugs have been a scourge for too long so it's time to think 'outside the box' in the way drug use is tackled.
While the grubbiement continues backing the use of Methadone without adequate supervision and support, hardcore users have little chance of ever becoming free of the habit.
It'll be interesting to see if anything new develops out of this.
"..I drink occasional tea and coffee. but it don't make me 'happy' or 'depressed'
Neither does heroin, it is a very popular misconception that people get "high" on certain drugs.
But tell me, what is the difference between having a cup of supermarket (Tetleys PG tips whatever) tea and having a tea made from cannabis?
Neither does heroin, it is a very popular misconception that people get "high" on certain drugs.
But tell me, what is the difference between having a cup of supermarket (Tetleys PG tips whatever) tea and having a tea made from cannabis?
umm - Cheaper?
His party colleagues are falling over each other in their rush to distance themselves.
umm - Cheaper?
umm - Legal?
umm - Legal?
Sorry could not resist..
Whilst I have no wish to take such drugs, I understand that weak drugs can lead onto stronger ones; the Gateway Drug Theory?
Which is why my maximum strength coffee is 4, no way will I allow it to lead onto 9!! (Turkish):)
From what I understood of his comments, it wasn't a case of whether drugs are right or wrong, just that our current system for dealing with them has failed.
It is possible that controlled supply might remove a lot of the problems associated with drug abuse - crime and prostitution etc. It would almost certainly have an effect on organised crime.
From what I understood of his comments, it wasn't a case of whether drugs are right or wrong, just that our current system for dealing with them has failed.
It is possible that controlled supply might remove a lot of the problems associated with drug abuse - crime and prostitution etc. It would almost certainly have an effect on organised crime.
And how soon before the accusations that the government are using drugs supply to control the population?
Very soon, that's how soon!
And how soon before the accusations that the government are using drugs supply to control the population?
Very soon, that's how soon!
Aren't they doing that already?
And how soon before the accusations that the government are using drugs supply to control the population? Very soon, that's how soon!
Remember the early 80's?
"Cheap heroin, Thatcher's answer to unemployment" even the BMJ (http://www.bmj.com/search?fulltext=thatcher+and+heroin&submit=yes&x=0&y=0) saw the link between the two:
".. The increase in heroin misuse is another reason for licensing doctors who prescribe to addicts-otherwise, we will see a rapid increase in the misuse of pharmaceutical drugs.
The spread of heroin use among unemployed and deprived youngsters of the type who live in Pilton and Muirhouse is clearly
a response to the lack of employment opportunities and the frustration and poverty of these youngsters' everyday lives.
The black humour of foot high graffiti recently scrawled on the wall beside Regents Park station subway entrance (not far
from the MRC headquarters, incidentally)-"Cheap heroin: Thatcher's answer to unemployment"-is not therefore totally
unjustified.."
ANGELA BURR, lecturer, Addiction Research Unit, London.
It is possible that controlled supply might remove a lot of the problems associated with drug abuse - crime and prostitution etc. It would almost certainly have an effect on organised crime.
An excellent article on the pros and cons of legalising drugs can be found on the "Speakers Corner (http://www.speakerscornertrust.org/4237/legalising-the-drugs-trade-reducing-crime-or-increasing-addiction/)" web site.
The drugs awareness group "Transform" have also published a blueprint on how legalisation could take place. Download (http://www.tdpf.org.uk/Transform_Drugs_Blueprint.pdf)
Aren't they doing that already?
I rest my case :roll:
John Little
16-Dec-10, 18:43
Prohibition has failed,
It has even failed the people who grow opium and cocaine as cash crops for they get paid a pittance while the people who buy it off them and turn it into cocaine make millions.
Regulate it, tax it, subject it to quality control. Use the tax revenue to reduce our debt.
Reduce crime, prostitution and deaths.
And affirm an individual's right to do what they want with their own body.
Me? I don't want the stuff, but the Volstead Act and what happened after it provide us with the perfect model of how to proceed.
umm - Legal?
So legal highs are ok then.
Prohibition has failed,
It has even failed the people who grow opium and cocaine as cash crops for they get paid a pittance while the people who buy it off them and turn it into cocaine make millions.
Regulate it, tax it, subject it to quality control. Use the tax revenue to reduce our debt.
Reduce crime, prostitution and deaths.
And affirm an individual's right to do what they want with their own body.
Me? I don't want the stuff, but the Volstead Act and what happened after it provide us with the perfect model of how to proceed.
There is a serious 'legal' problem with Liquor.
Why create another problem? Rather a simple equation.
John Little
19-Dec-10, 09:23
Good grief! Is that a serious question?
So I am to understand, with your past, that you do not think we have a drugs problem?
Incredible!
So, if they are all legalised, will there be a minimum age like drink and fags?
So, we, as a society, will tell 16 or 18 year olds, it's OK to take Heroin?
Dream on!
John Little
19-Dec-10, 10:16
So, if they are all legalised, will there be a minimum age like drink and fags?
So, we, as a society, will tell 16 or 18 year olds, it's OK to take Heroin?
Dream on!
LOL! Dream on?
It's happening right now.
We have to at least discuss legalisation. At the moment the powers that be refuse to even think about it so we continue seeing lives blighted by drug addiction and sent spiralling into crime prostitution and often a sordid violent tragic death.
A refusal to even consider legalisation as an option is frankly foolish and panders to those who label all addicts as a waste of space. As a parent it is my greatest worry, that I will lose one of my beautiful children to drugs. I would be happy for the government to look at any option which might lessen the attraction, lessen the hold criminals have on the supply of drugs, increase the help available to those lost inside their addiction and stop them dying needlessly
We have to at least discuss legalisation. At the moment the powers that be refuse to even think about it so we continue seeing lives blighted by drug addiction and sent spiralling into crime prostitution and often a sordid violent tragic death.
A refusal to even consider legalisation as an option is frankly foolish and panders to those who label all addicts as a waste of space. As a parent it is my greatest worry, that I will lose one of my beautiful children to drugs. I would be happy for the government to look at any option which might lessen the attraction, lessen the hold criminals have on the supply of drugs, increase the help available to those lost inside their addiction and stop them dying needlessly
So you don't think that legalisation would make more people into addicts?
I do. I believe lots more people would try drugs if they were legally available.
It stands to reason. If eating turkey was made illegal, and you could only get it of questionable quality, off dodgy characters, at exorbitant prices, on dirty street corners where prostitutes and muggers hung out, only hard core turkey addicts would continue to consume.
I have to ask the question, who are the people campaigning for legalisation? Is it potential drug addicts awaiting the opportunity, if only it was legalised?
John Little
19-Dec-10, 11:15
"It stands to reason. If eating turkey was made illegal, and you could only get it of questionable quality, off dodgy characters, at exorbitant prices, on dirty street corners where prostitutes and muggers hung out, only hard core turkey addicts would continue to consume.
I have to ask the question, who are the people campaigning for legalisation? Is it potential drug addicts awaiting the opportunity, if only it was legalised?"
False analogy. Turkey does not have the effects of drugs. Or Alcohol. (which is a drug)
I think drugs should be legalised. I don't want them or need them. But they should be legalised because the benefits of doing so seem to me to outweigh the bads. Reduction of crime overnight being the main one.
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"It stands to reason. If eating turkey was made illegal, and you could only get it of questionable quality, off dodgy characters, at exorbitant prices, on dirty street corners where prostitutes and muggers hung out, only hard core turkey addicts would continue to consume.
I have to ask the question, who are the people campaigning for legalisation? Is it potential drug addicts awaiting the opportunity, if only it was legalised?"
False analogy. Turkey does not have the effects of drugs. Or Alcohol. (which is a drug)
I think drugs should be legalised. I don't want them or need them. But they should be legalised because the benefits of doing so seem to me to outweigh the bads. Reduction of crime overnight being the main one.
__________________
The turkey analogy is good (and topical :D) It doesn't matter what effect it has, if it is hard to get, less people will get it.
[quote=John Little;800003 Reduction of crime overnight being the main one.
__________________[/quote]
Well yes, all the people illegally taking drugs now, would be legally taking drugs. :eek:
John Little
19-Dec-10, 11:33
Fine - then they would not be robbing my house,,,,,
So you don't think that legalisation would make more people into addicts?
LOR]
I don't know. That's the point. We don't discuss it, there is no open Frank exploration of these issues. We need an honest debate and then maybe just maybe we might be able to start to resolve some of the problems.
So you don't think that legalisation would make more people into addicts?
I do. I believe lots more people would try drugs if they were legally available.
It stands to reason. If eating turkey was made illegal, and you could only get it of questionable quality, off dodgy characters, at exorbitant prices, on dirty street corners where prostitutes and muggers hung out, only hard core turkey addicts would continue to consume.
I have to ask the question, who are the people campaigning for legalisation? Is it potential drug addicts awaiting the opportunity, if only it was legalised?
I can see the angle you're working here, but alcohol has been legal for years and not everyone is addicted to it.
People will try anything if it's legal. It doesn't mean everyone is going to get hooked on it.
Potential drug addicts? If someone wants to take drugs, regardless of the legal implications, they'll take them. It's not so much a case of "legalise drugs so we can take them." It seems that the people who are calling(the ones we see in the new/read about in newspapers) for legalisation are the people looking at it from a different perspective compared to people who actually take drugs.
I can see the angle you're working here, but alcohol has been legal for years and not everyone is addicted to it.
People will try anything if it's legal. It doesn't mean everyone is going to get hooked on it.
Potential drug addicts? If someone wants to take drugs, regardless of the legal implications, they'll take them. It's not so much a case of "legalise drugs so we can take them." It seems that the people who are calling(the ones we see in the new/read about in newspapers) for legalisation are the people looking at it from a different perspective compared to people who actually take drugs.
Pssst! Wanna buy some turkey? :cool:
umm - Cheaper?
I sourced a China tea that wasa selling for £1400 for a hundred grams. the dearest cannabis would be £1000 for the same quantity.
So why do certain people take drugs?,
I've no idea really, maybe they had a bad childhood. For many years my father beat me and called me useless. Did not make me turn to alcohol or drugs..
I've always obtained my 'highs' from doing high adrenalin 'things' Mother called it 'stupid and dangerous things' - she refused to sign my consent forms for free fall parachuting as I was too young, so forged her signature (naughty me).. suffice it to say I've got feet's of scars.. 'spose on retrospect shoving some chemical in me head, might have been less painful!
Anyway a few thoughts I've come across below - ring any bells?
1. addictive personalities and weakness. Some people need drugs, others alcohol, sex, gambling, religion, you name it as long as they can have a crutch that helps through the day without having to face reality.
2.You become an addict when you lose the ability to "say no". It can be heredity but anyone can become addicted no matter the family history, its a choice; no one forces a pill down your throat and no one sticks the needle into your arm.There are many reason's why people become addicted and the most common, is the inability to face reality and responsibility.
3. Tendencies, everyone has tendencies, and everyone has different urges and tendencies. you can get addicted to anything you like, t.v. eating, smoking, biting finger- nails, lying. The more people enjoy drugs the more they do them and the more they are likely to become addicts.
4.You've got to try them first. Then you get curious about other drugs..
Should drugs be legalised? This is a question that has been asked for a few years now but not always brought out into open.
Some people say that if it is legalised then more people will take drugs - why? Drugs are already available.
Anything you have on prescription is a 'drug' and much of that is 'addictive' if taken often and long enough but you still have to 'pay' for them. They are 'legal' drugs but it does not stop others from obtaining those same 'drugs' and selling them on at a higher price, to someone addicted to them, because addicts will become addicted to anything that gives them a 'release' or a 'high'.
If the so called 'hard' drugs were legalised, for one it would do away with many, although not all, of the drug pushers who now stand outside our schools and sell to school children, the beginners of the addict world. Like many other things, smoking, alcohol, sex, all youngsters want to 'try', and nowadays 'peer pressure' is far worse than years ago, to try these things.
If you had seen the damage that is done to those youngsters, whether they be the addicts or the ones who become pushers themselves, and what effects it has on their families too, its not just the addicts that suffer, then anything that would get some of those drugs off our streets and out of the hands of 'pushers' would be welcome.
Legalisation of all drugs has never been tried anywhere. Everything else that has been tried has failed miserably to stop the market in hard drugs. Perhaps it is time for a change in attitude.
Legalisation of all drugs has never been tried anywhere. Everything else that has been tried has failed miserably to stop the market in hard drugs. Perhaps it is time for a change in attitude.
Why does this post not surprise me [disgust]
I don't know. That's the point. We don't discuss it, there is no open Frank exploration of these issues. We need an honest debate and then maybe just maybe we might be able to start to resolve some of the problems.
The decriminalization or legalization of 'illegal drugs', has been one of the most talked about/ discussed/ argued over issues in the World today, and has been for the past 30 plus years. Think tanks around the World including those proclaimed as Drug Czars, have met over and over to hammer out a protocol, but no one can agree and it just goes back to the non legalization/decriminalization. In fact in the late 90's., the Top Mexican 'Czar' was arrested for working with the Bad Guys!
Unfortunately these meetings/ discussions etc., do not get much 'News Time', as they are quite mundane and non News Worthy.
So the present standard is/ seems to be that if we are unable to rehabilitate our drinkers, then why create another problem. Then we have 2 problems we cannot control.
Yes....huge amounts of money goes into Interdiction/ Policing etc. Look at Mexico for the past few years...Thousands of people killed.. Good and Bad.
And the United States blames the Mexicans...BUT... if there was no U.S. demand for the Drugs then the problem would diminish.
Methinks we are baffled on how to deal with it/ thus Prohibition reigns.
Why does this post not surprise me [disgust]
Probably for the same reasons your post won't surprise him ;)
Like many other things, smoking, alcohol, sex, all youngsters want to 'try', and nowadays 'peer pressure' is far worse than years ago, to try these things.
Weren't those things around in those 'years ago'? ;)
Weren't those things around in those 'years ago'? ;)
Well as you know, nothing is really new, just re-vamped, despite the youngsters of today thinking they are the only ones to try these things. They forget that at some stage we were all young once and tried many things when we were their age...think its called part of growing up. ;)
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