View Full Version : Julian Assange
See Assange's lawyer is spouting about his client being held in "Dickensian conditions" in Wandsworth's Nick, "He has absolutely no access to any electronic equipment, no access to the outside world, no access to outside media," Well knock me down with a feather! how terrible, how on earth in this day and age can people be treated so badly! Wot, no computer?
His lawyer Mark Stephens said the case was turning into a "show trial". "The Swedes won't abide by the umpire's decision. They want to put Mr Assange through yet more trouble, more expense, more hurdles. "They clearly will not spare any expense but to keep Mr Assange in jail." (Sounds like a whinging pom to me) Being a bloody lawyer £200,000 would be chicken feed to him.
And another non-entity: Author Yvonne Ridley said: "It is a victory for common sense. If he had been refused bail, it would have meant the court had become a political arena." Whoops, wonder if the Swedes will win the appeal, that'll really upset em
His mother Christine Assange "As a mother, I'm asking the world to stand up for my brave son." Brave? wot's she on about.
By the time Julian gets his act together wikileaks will be falling apart, I see that his fellow wikileak people, were fed up with what they perceive as autocratic leadership, former members of St Julian Assange's core inner circle at WikiLeaks will start a breakaway site on Monday called OpenLeaks.
Defectors include Daniel Domscheit-Berg, otherwise known as Daniel Schmitt, who made a high profile exit from wikileaks in September, and Herbert Snorrason, an Icelandic student.
Both resigned in September. Snorrason is quoted as telling Assange, in an online chat log acquired by WiReD:"And you're not even fulfilling your role as a leader right now. A leader communicates and cultivates trust in himself. You are doing the exact opposite. You behave like some kind of emperor or slave trader".
Snorrason's departure was fomented by this declaration from Assange: "I am the heart and soul of this organization, its founder, philosopher, spokesperson, original coder, organizer, financier and all the rest. If you have a problem with me, pee off" And he did.!
Then there's Brusselsleaks; says it aims to expose “Dodgy dealings behind closed doors” at the heart of Europe. Seemingly created by people who work within the European Union’s political machine, the site’s WordPress-hosted front page states: “There are plenty of good people in powerful positions who too often see shocking information pass them by. How do we know this? We’ve been there.”
Let's hope THEY return to 'leaks' that are meaningful and inform us of wrongdoing - not gossip between diplomats..
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mixed-signals-10000051/wikileaks-spokesman-quits-blames-assange-10018726/?s_cid=938 (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mixed-signals-10000051/wikileaks-spokesman-quits-blames-assange-10018726/?s_cid=938)
http://brusselsleaks.com/ (http://brusselsleaks.com/)
John Little
14-Dec-10, 20:25
"Let's hope THEY return to 'leaks' that are meaningful and inform us of wrongdoing - not gossip between diplomats.."
I think that puts a finger rather neatly on how I feel about this Bekisman.
If Wikileaks had fine combed through the stuff and informed the world of war crimes, abuses and major injustice then I might join the chorus of voices raised in his defence.
But a blanket release of everything is not an exposure of what needs to be exposed. It's a breach of confidence in an area which needs confidence to function. Breaking confidence in that field makes me feel very uncomfortable and uneasy because politicians and diplomats have to be able to talk frankly to each other and speak plainly. If they are constrained in that then their effectiveness is reduced imho.
Assange chose to use a bludgeon instead of a rapier - so instead of something inspiring with its daring we end up with something which looks remarkably like vulgar sensationalism and I am left with the feeling that he is unbelievably naive. Of course he could be after fame/infamy and world recognition - and he certainly has that.
I think he may prove to be the proverbial butterfly, broken on a wheel that he has no comprehension of; forces that he has let loose, like Pandora opening a box; forces that will destroy him.
We all know why he isn't aloud near a computer, why he cant talk to the outside world, the media.
He's scared the governments stupid, of course there going to delay it until everyone forgets about him and he can be dumped conveniently by the side of the road.
billmoseley
14-Dec-10, 21:04
We all know why he isn't aloud near a computer, why he cant talk to the outside world, the media.
He's scared the governments stupid, of course there going to delay it until everyone forgets about him and he can be dumped conveniently by the side of the road.
i don't think he has scared them at all. things get said and done all the time by all countries. i think they are more worried about the lives he's putting in danger
We all know why he isn't aloud near a computer, why he cant talk to the outside world, the media.
He's scared the governments stupid, of course there going to delay it until everyone forgets about him and he can be dumped conveniently by the side of the road.
What astounded me was his lawyer bemoaning the fact he was not allowed access to a computer - not sure, but do all the Old lags in Wandsworth have this privilege? (news to me)
I know they have two gyms and a sports hall (that's nice). And an inspection report in June 2003 praised the prison in several areas, notably its work with foreign nationals - so Julian's mum will be pleased! he's in safe hands..
Aaldtimer
14-Dec-10, 21:53
What astounded me was his lawyer bemoaning the fact he was not allowed access to a computer - not sure, but do all the Old lags in Wandsworth have this privilege? (news to me)
He's not an old lag...he is on remand.
Innocent until proved guilty, and all that!
...if he's ever charged with anything!:confused
northener
14-Dec-10, 22:32
We all know why he isn't aloud near a computer, why he cant talk to the outside world, the media.
He's scared the governments stupid, of course there going to delay it until everyone forgets about him and he can be dumped conveniently by the side of the road.
He hasn't scared anyone, but he's annoyed a lot of powerful people.
He's tried to set himself up as some one-man 'wielder of the light of truth', in reality he's come across as a narcissistic attention grabber who's blundered out of his depth.
He'll not be dumped at the side of the road, far two crude and Eastern European. More than one way to destroy someone without resorting to violence.
And it seems like that course of action is already in motion.....
Just how useful is this deluge of messages?
More useful than one might think!
Information is now beginning to come out about the diplomatic and military processes that led to Canada's developing a role in Afghanistan. Not a cheep was heard about this prior to the Wikeweek revelations.
The powers that be like to hide things. Ask any historian of the 20th century about the role of the various Secrets' Acts!
The release of these documents is a great, long-overdue purging.
On the subject of prison conditions I can only say this line of argument reminds me of the bad old days on the Org when civil rights were abandoned in favor of frothing and raving and calling for the return of bread and water and the reinstatment of capital punishment.
On the subject of prison conditions I can only say this line of argument reminds me of the bad old days on the Org when civil rights were abandoned in favor of frothing and raving and calling for the return of bread and water and the reinstatment of capital punishment.
Pleased you agree with it Canuk! (Restricted diet No1)
He's not an old lag...he is on remand.
Innocent until proved guilty, and all that!
...if he's ever charged with anything!:confused
OK then, do 'remand prisioners' (innocent til proved guilty - and all that) get computers?:confused
I find it odd that the guy accused of arranging for his wifes death gets bail but not Julian. Seems to me like they're treating him the same way they treated Kevin Mitnick. If you're wondering who I'm talking about check here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6746139755329108302#) for an interesting two hour documentary.
I also find it really odd how both the media and the public at large seem to buy into the FUD (Fear, Uncertaininty and Doubt) and outright propoganda being released against Julian and Wikileaks. The BBC what with this and it's coverage of the student protests seems to be moving in the direction of Fox News.
Just because the guy seems like a bit of a dick to some people that doesn't mean governments have free reign to do what they want to him. Here, the media, everywhere it seems to just be ad hominem attacks against the guy and his supporters.
Funny this thread reminds me of the treads regarding the Iraq war. One side said how good it was to protect the West the other saw it for a sham. Some of the truth has come out over that war and I am sure some will come out over this.
oldmarine
15-Dec-10, 02:12
I'm getting a large laugh out of the whole thing. The comments are hillarious.
Aaldtimer
15-Dec-10, 04:10
OK then, do 'remand prisioners' (innocent til proved guilty - and all that) get computers?:confused
Short answer is no they don't, but they do have certain rights:- http://www.jigsawvisitorscentre.org.uk/pages/remand.html
but then again:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2589437.stm :confused
I find it odd that the guy accused of arranging for his wifes death gets bail but not Julian. Seems to me like they're treating him the same way they treated Kevin Mitnick. If you're wondering who I'm talking about check here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6746139755329108302#) for an interesting two hour documentary.
I also find it really odd how both the media and the public at large seem to buy into the FUD (Fear, Uncertaininty and Doubt) and outright propoganda being released against Julian and Wikileaks. The BBC what with this and it's coverage of the student protests seems to be moving in the direction of Fox News.
Just because the guy seems like a bit of a dick to some people that doesn't mean governments have free reign to do what they want to him. Here, the media, everywhere it seems to just be ad hominem attacks against the guy and his supporters.
I mentioned this bail question on the 'wikileaks' thread, but I now understand that the guy who has been accused of arranging to murder his wife in SA is a British subject, and it is normal procedure to refuse bail for foreign nationals, and I afraid that 'ole Julian is one of those..
I think it would be appropriate to remember that although some folks think it is a stitch-up, Assange is wanted in Sweden to answer alleged sex charges, not a piddling traffic fine.
Being a member of the 'gullible? public, I don't have to read the rhetoric from newspapers/media. just read the cables.
"You [Julian] behave like some kind of emperor or slave trader".that's not me that's one of his ex-lieutenants - the man's an ego-maniac, but hey, we've all got our peculiarities..
And no, of course it does not mean governments have free reign - in actual fact ALL he's doing IS FUD! spreading his Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, but in this case amongst nations..
I see by hacking into your own Org PM's that you think Jack378 is a bigot. That you are totally unhappy the way the Org is moderated. That sheerwent3 is a fool and has no idea of 'anything' - of course this is nonsense, but serves to indicate the unnecessary nature of the vast majority of 'the cables' - pick out the important and valid points by all means, otherwise it's just FUD..
I find it fascinating that this promised disclosure by Julian's mirror sites of 'highly damaging, nuclear explosion equivalent' cables has not - so far - materialised, in spite of their full intention to do so on Julian's arrest? I wonder why..
Kevin Mitnick; a computer security consultant he was convicted of various computer - and communications-related crimes. At the time of his arrest, he was the most-wanted computer criminal in the United States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Mitnick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Mitnick) I fail to see what the connection is? Julian was at first refused bail (for reasons mentioned above), he's appealed, but this has been challenged by the Swedes, all legal and above board..
Short answer is no they don't, but they do have certain rights:- http://www.jigsawvisitorscentre.org.uk/pages/remand.html
but then again:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2589437.stm :confused
That's all I was maintaining, why should Assange be treated like a VIP and given access to a computer? "He has absolutely no access to any electronic equipment," squealed Stevens
Your links state: "Access to reasonable facilities to seek release on bail and to prepare for trial" and "Many prisons are failing to allow prisoners "frequent and reasonable" access to legal material,"It is absolutely vital that remand prisoners have access to legal books and we agree that there should be minimum standards of provision in all prisons where prisoners are held on remand."
It's got to be fair..
oldmarine
15-Dec-10, 18:29
On the subject of prison conditions I can only say this line of argument reminds me of the bad old days on the Org when civil rights were abandoned in favor of frothing and raving and calling for the return of bread and water and the reinstatment of capital punishment.
Bread & water while serving time in the Brig was a popular form of punishment for the Navy & Marines during WW2.
Bread & water while serving time in the Brig was a popular form of punishment for the Navy & Marines during WW2.
Who was it popular with? :eek:
Bread & water while serving time in the Brig was a popular form of punishment for the Navy & Marines during WW2.
I wonder if the thought of cooked meals, pool tables, table tennis, well equipped gyms and satellite television would have been as effective a punishment?
oldmarine
15-Dec-10, 18:35
I wonder if the thought of cooked meals, pool tables, table tennis, well equipped gyms and satellite television would have been as effective a punishment?
I am certain there would be a lot of good folks wanting to get in with that type of punishment. :roll::lol:
Bread & water while serving time in the Brig was a popular form of punishment for the Navy & Marines during WW2.
Yes, in the Brit Military, bolshie prisoners were restricted their rations to No.1 diet – a basic bread and water diet..
Bread & water while serving time in the Brig was a popular form of punishment for the Navy & Marines during WW2.
How we treat prisoners says everything about us as a people and a society.
We give them TV, Wi-Fi access, comfy beds so we must be have the bees knees of morals :confused
John Little
15-Dec-10, 19:30
How we treat prisoners says everything about us as a people and a society.
We give them TV, Wi-Fi access, comfy beds so we must be have the bees knees of morals :confused
Or we're mugs.....
Or we're mugs.....
Yes John,
It certainly seems that the "Do-Gooders" have the upper hand I'd say!
C3...:mad::roll:
On a related note, somewhere in the back of my mind I think we coddle pensioners far too much and that these baby boomers then crap on the rest of society and decry everyone else but anyway, this is not a case of do-gooders vs. so-call sensible people, both of which are misnomers anyway.
People need to stop playing what's called a zero sum game with these things. We live in a civilised society, one where justice and punishment should not be vindictive. I say this while admitting that some of these prison cells are better equipped that flats I've lived in.
Also all crimes are not equal, it's rather easy to differentiate. Perhaps we should be proportional with these things and not behave like Daily Mail readers.
On a related note, somewhere in the back of my mind I think we coddle pensioners far too much and that these baby boomers then crap on the rest of society and decry everyone else but anyway, this is not a case of do-gooders vs. so-call sensible people, both of which are misnomers anyway.
People need to stop playing what's called a zero sum game with these things. We live in a civilised society, one where justice and punishment should not be vindictive. I say this while admitting that some of these prison cells are better equipped that flats I've lived in.
Also all crimes are not equal, it's rather easy to differentiate. Perhaps we should be proportional with these things and not behave like Daily Mail readers.
What's wrong with Daily Mail readers, are Guardian readers better?;)
What's wrong with Daily Mail readers, are Guardian readers better?;)
I don't read the Grauniad either. I see problems on both extremes or rather both sides of the media, though I'd say the Times is the counterpoint to the Guardian, not sure what the counterpoint of the Daily Mail would be.
The Pepsi Challenge
16-Dec-10, 04:07
I think this is one of the most important world political stories to have ever come about.
Funnily enough, the U.S. Media haven't touched it. Or maybe they weren't allowed.Amazing, anyway, that Assange and his four pals have managed to uncover, and put out, more information than all the world's journalists combined. Coincidence? I think not. If the journalists weren't compromised, and if they were allowed to do their job, then there wouldn't have been a need for Assange.
Regarding his case: do me a favour. The very nanosecond he released the cables I instantly knew the U.S. Dept of Justice were going to discredit him by any means possible. Honeytrapping has been around forever, and the way the two 'victims' have behaved - rushing to tweet their story - is a disgrace and an insult to feminism and genuine rape victims everywhere.
Sweden, meanwhile, are acting like good little puppets to their American pals.
Given what's been put out on wikileaks this week - everything from UFOs to Madeleine McCann, from the Bank of Scotland to the British Government's involvement in assassinating Irish nationals - it's a slap in the face to the public who have been, and continue, to be fed an unlimited amount of bull-shampoo by those in positions of power.
northener
16-Dec-10, 08:43
I think this is one of the most important world political stories to have ever come about.
Funnily enough, the U.S. Media haven't touched it. Or maybe they weren't allowed.Amazing, anyway, that Assange and his four pals have managed to uncover, and put out, more information than all the world's journalists combined. Coincidence? I think not. If the journalists weren't compromised, and if they were allowed to do their job, then there wouldn't have been a need for Assange.
Regarding his case: do me a favour. The very nanosecond he released the cables I instantly knew the U.S. Dept of Justice were going to discredit him by any means possible. Honeytrapping has been around forever, and the way the two 'victims' have behaved - rushing to tweet their story - is a disgrace and an insult to feminism and genuine rape victims everywhere.
Sweden, meanwhile, are acting like good little puppets to their American pals.
Given what's been put out on wikileaks this week - everything from UFOs to Madeleine McCann, from the Bank of Scotland to the British Government's involvement in assassinating Irish nationals - it's a slap in the face to the public who have been, and continue, to be fed an unlimited amount of bull-shampoo by those in positions of power.
Do you believe that the public should have unfettered access to every single communication that is made in Government?
Do you believe that the public should have unfettered access to every single communication that is made in Government?
Obviously there are a few things, perhaps if the media was more interested in real journalism instead of the sob/personal interest stories, celebrity news, portraying everyone even remotely associated with the armed forces as a hero and the 4 horsemen of the intellectual apocalypse (X-Factor, Strictly Come Dancing, Apprentice and I'm a Celebrity) there wouldn't be a need for Wikileaks and people could leak the information to the media.
Let me restate that and throw it back at you, can you think of any specific example in the leaked cables that is actually dangerous for the public to know. Not people saying it's dangerous I mean actually dangerous. Bearing in mind they didn't release everything and the pentagon were invited on numerous occasions to go over the information prior to release and refused.
If it was so secret why was a private in the US military allowed unfettered access to it.
Also prison isn't the military people and we're continuing to play a zero sum game here.
John Little
16-Dec-10, 09:54
If confidential emails and letters can be leaked with impunity then business will be conducted over the telephone.
Then there will be no proofs, no paper trails, no evidence.
That's an improvement in democratic government?
Yes, in the Brit Military, bolshie prisoners were restricted their rations to No.1 diet – a basic bread and water diet..
I thought I was seeing double there ;)
Obviously there are a few things, perhaps if the media was more interested in real journalism instead of the sob/personal interest stories, celebrity news, portraying everyone even remotely associated with the armed forces as a hero and the 4 horsemen of the intellectual apocalypse (X-Factor, Strictly Come Dancing, Apprentice and I'm a Celebrity) there wouldn't be a need for Wikileaks and people could leak the information to the media.
Let me restate that and throw it back at you, can you think of any specific example in the leaked cables that is actually dangerous for the public to know. Not people saying it's dangerous I mean actually dangerous. Bearing in mind they didn't release everything and the pentagon were invited on numerous occasions to go over the information prior to release and refused.
If it was so secret why was a private in the US military allowed unfettered access to it.
Also prison isn't the military people and we're continuing to play a zero sum game here.
Just a quick one on your final words - this as an add-on to Oldmarine's comment.. just an aside of no importance, i.e. not Top Secret..
Funnily enough, the U.S. Media haven't touched it.
To me that's more or less proof that no matter how much we brown nose the Americans we still live in a free society, not just an illusion of one.
Unless this is an illusion inside and illusion:confused - the conspiracy thickens....
Obviously there are a few things, perhaps if the media was more interested in real journalism instead of the sob/personal interest stories, celebrity news, portraying everyone even remotely associated with the armed forces as a hero and the 4 horsemen of the intellectual apocalypse (X-Factor, Strictly Come Dancing, Apprentice and I'm a Celebrity) there wouldn't be a need for Wikileaks and people could leak the information to the media.
Let me restate that and throw it back at you, can you think of any specific example in the leaked cables that is actually dangerous for the public to know. Not people saying it's dangerous I mean actually dangerous. Bearing in mind they didn't release everything and the pentagon were invited on numerous occasions to go over the information prior to release and refused.
If it was so secret why was a private in the US military allowed unfettered access to it.
Also prison isn't the military people and we're continuing to play a zero sum game here.
I find it telling that you encompass the Armed Forces in the same category as 'X-Factor, Strictly Come Dancing, Apprentice and I'm a Celebrity'.. a Freudian slip perhaps, but I accept that there are very few 'heroes' in the Armed Forces; having served for 15 years myself, been shot at, injured, but in no way a 'hero', and my three sons who have, or are serving for a combination of 35 years; a lot of it in active service theatres, are still not 'heroes' - they are just 'My Boys'. So therefore I may have a more objective observation than yourself in dealing with that?..
My assertation that 'Nerds' were attempting Denial of Service attacks upon Amazon, Mastercard and Visa et el, was not directed at yourself, as an 'IT chap' - forsoth, my own youngest son is an IT manager in charge of a programme involving millions of pounds..(AND he plays WOW)
Yet again, I agree with you, the standard of journalism is low.. sales of the Scottish Sun: 333,182.. Scottish Daily Record: 292,390. Telegraph: 21,116. Times: 22,216 and the Gurdian: 14,038. Oh yes your denigrated Scottish Daily Mail: 114,461.
But to say that "there wouldn't be a need for Wikileaks and people could leak the information to the media." does this translate into saying that if Wikileaks did not exist then people could leak information to Journalist?.. are you saying that prior to wikileaks no information was leaked?
You ask "can you think of any specific example in the leaked cables that is actually dangerous for the public to know. Not people saying it's dangerous I mean actually dangerous." Well the short answer, of course, is we do not really know. Although obviously it has compromised diplomacy, foreign governments are limiting their dealings with the US, frankness of exchange will not take place, if it is presumed some hacker will publish it on the web somewhere.
However, items such as details from post-action reports from units in Afghanistan, for example; detailed the time needed for helicopter gunships to get to a FOB (Forward operating base) that were being attacked by the Taliban, something that is pure manna to the insurgents. (they can suss out how long they can blatter our lads, before having to skedaddle.)
Obviously the US government should better protect their classified information.
Of course the US will play down the significance of Julian's disclosures.. I mentioned that in Yemen (again, see original Wikileaks thread; #2 28-Nov-10, 22:27) "The Yemeni president and deputy prime minister are quoted as saying that they’re letting the U.S. bomb al-Qaida in their country, while claiming that the bombing is the government’s doing. Well, that cover is pretty well blown. And given the unpopularity of the San’a government’s tenuous cooperation with us in the war against al-Qaida, this will undoubtedly limit there freedom of action against its Yemeni branch, identified as the most urgent terrorist threat to U.S. security."(New York Daily News)
You ask; "If it was so secret why was a private in the US military allowed unfettered access to it." I refer my honourable friend to the answer I gve some time ago: #8 on the original wikileaks thread 29-Nov-10 11.37 and it is also a well known fact that this 'stuff' was more widely spread around after 9/11 so more departments had access
And as for your comment "Bearing in mind they didn't release everything and the pentagon were invited on numerous occasions to go over the information prior to release and refused." what do you expect? naivety, the US government to go along with it? "Go on Julian, you can publish all this confidential stuff, but not that bit"!
All this hullabaloo about the gossiping about diplomats, blinking heck, that's their Raison d'être.. have you not heard; "A diplomat is an honest man sent abroad to lie for his country"?. a similar comment was spoken to me by the British Ambassador in Warsaw in June 1976...
Will this happen again; undoubtedly, but let's not forget, that recently Julian couldn't sleep in the same bed on consecutive nights - now there's a thought...
This morning I watched as Steven's (Assange's lawyer) actually stated that 'he would not imprison Julian for what he allegedly did in Sweden' - let's see; "Apparently having consensual sex in Sweden without a condom is punishable by a term of imprisonment of a minimum of two years for rape."
His Mum has just "he found being kept isolated difficult, even though he recognised it was for his own safety. " (Own safety? right now it's the safest place he could be!)
And finally it's been announced that 'hackers', will, if Julian does not get Bail, target British Government departments'.. Oh for heavens sake: grow up!
The Drunken Duck
16-Dec-10, 15:36
Obviously there are a few things, perhaps if the media was more interested in real journalism instead of the sob/personal interest stories, celebrity news, portraying everyone even remotely associated with the armed forces as a hero and the 4 horsemen of the intellectual apocalypse (X-Factor, Strictly Come Dancing, Apprentice and I'm a Celebrity) there wouldn't be a need for Wikileaks and people could leak the information to the media.
Let me restate that and throw it back at you, can you think of any specific example in the leaked cables that is actually dangerous for the public to know. Not people saying it's dangerous I mean actually dangerous. Bearing in mind they didn't release everything and the pentagon were invited on numerous occasions to go over the information prior to release and refused.
If it was so secret why was a private in the US military allowed unfettered access to it.
Also prison isn't the military people and we're continuing to play a zero sum game here.
I utterly agree with you about the god awful media coverage of everyone in uniform being a "hero", it's like that god awful Xmas poem about Santa finding the Soldier on watch that people dig up every year. Cringeworthy. The fact is they spend most of their time drinking, joking about anything in a crude manner and having sex with any woman that will let them. For the real meaning of true heroism in uniform two words can perfectly describe it .. "Fat Grenade".
Assange is a nobody. For someone who sees himself as so clever and far ahead of the authorities I find it amusing that he was honey trapped so easy, and I think he was. But I don't care, he took information that wasn't his and released it. What did he expect ??, it is funny though that the same people who champion him for going outside of the law cry and moan because others wont act within it !! .. grow up nerds .. Big Boys Games = Big Boys Rules.
Nevermind though, Assange can look forward to lots more leaks. Mainly because his new "girlfriend" Bill, a 6ft 5in tattoed inmate with a not-so-gentle touch about him, will ensure his bottom will eventually have the same radius as a wheelie bin. Just goes to show .. be careful what you wish for ...
oldmarine
16-Dec-10, 15:38
Who was it popular with? :eek:
Certainly not the ones serving time in the Brig. lol...
Northerner asks, a few dreary kilometers back, " Do you believe that the public should have unfettered access to every single communication that is made in Government?"
I repley: Yes, I do. I believe it should be a fundamental right. Of course not all information will be relevant so it can be ignored. But what is relevant is the antics government ministers get up to behind closed doors as they cobble together some very dubious policies. Like for example the wildly popular (just kidding) Iraqui debacle.
Were it not for the human carnage Blair's performance would resemble one of the more hilarious episodes of Yes Prime Minister.
Now, about that bread and water diet. I suggest that advocates of this diet should obtain a measuring tape and measure their middles. I fear not so muich for the mental health of Orgers (which is clearly in flitters) as for their cardiovascular risk factors.
It is time that you becae aquainted with the teachings of Dr. Despres of the University of Laval in Quebec.
http://www.theheart.org/article/819949.do
A bread and water diet is clearly a major health benefit. If you really want to punish prisoners feed 'em steaks.
Northerner asks, a few dreary kilometers back, " Do you believe that the public should have unfettered access to every single communication that is made in Government?"
I repley: Yes, I do. I believe it should be a fundamental right. Of course not all information will be relevant so it can be ignored. But what is relevant is the antics government ministers get up to behind closed doors as they cobble together some very dubious policies. Like for example the wildly popular (just kidding) Iraqui debacle.
Were it not for the human carnage Blair's performance would resemble one of the more hilarious episodes of Yes Prime Minister.
Now, about that bread and water diet. I suggest that advocates of this diet should obtain a measuring tape and measure their middles. I fear not so muich for the mental health of Orgers (which is clearly in flitters) as for their cardiovascular risk factors.
It is time that you becae aquainted with the teachings of Dr. Despres of the University of Laval in Quebec.
http://www.theheart.org/article/819949.do
A bread and water diet is clearly a major health benefit. If you really want to punish prisoners feed 'em steaks.
Hmm throwing stones and glasshouses etc? ;)
Ontario at bottom of class in openness
A shroud of secrecy surrounding government-held records in Canada is keeping volumes of public-interest information – from municipal finance details to police use of Tasers – hidden from Canadians.
http://www.thestar.com/article/568626 (http://www.thestar.com/article/568626)
Canada’s information commissioners and ombudsmen representing federal, provincial and territorial jurisdictions will hold a media availability to discuss their joint resolution about the importance of governments sharing information with the public in more accessible, open formats.
http://www.katonda.com/news/30/2010/1792 (http://www.katonda.com/news/30/2010/1792)
Bekisman, you are making my point!
Reference the case of Tommy Douglas, the father of Canadian Healthcare.
Deemed by the Mounties to be a communist threat they kept him under surveillance for 40 years, long after he had been honored by his country. The Douglas estate demanded to see the records of this surveillance. Need I say that it was not forthcoming!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/02/10/csis-tommy-douglas-.html
Bekisman, you are making my point!
Reference the case of Tommy Douglas, the father of Canadian Healthcare.
Deemed by the Mounties to be a communist threat they kept him under surveillance for 40 years, long after he had been honored by his country. The Douglas estate demanded to see the records of this surveillance. Need I say that it was not forthcoming!
His thesis entitled The Problems of the Subnormal Family endorsed eugenics. The thesis proposed a system that would have required couples seeking to marry to be certified as mentally and morally fit. Those deemed to be "subnormal" because of low intelligence, moral laxity or venereal disease would be sent to state farms or camps while those judged to be mentally defective or incurably diseased would be sterilized"
Seems this was never mentioned when he became premier and 'minister of health' [not surprised!]
"Douglas was equally disturbed that members of the Socialist Party sat around quoting Marx and Lenin waiting for a revolution while refusing to help the destitute"
Don't see why the RCMP considered him a communist threat, as apart from his earlier ideas (above) seems a nice chap
PS; chatting to my son in Richmond, seems it's about minus 6 - over there, not too far removed from here!
Poor old Julian
Seems he's worried now; it's to quote; "very serious" - why does such a person who deliberately releases secret documents (no matter if they may just contain nonsense or not) obtained via a Military Clerk in the US Army, not realise that one can't take on a powerful nation - no matter how 'powerful' ones Lawyers are?
In no way is it a fair and perfect world, in fact it's a nasty, dirty, place, where there is a constant undercurrent of Machiavellian actions that go on, that no amount of digging and exposure of 'secret' communications will uncover.
Assange is a very little man who is playing a very dangerous game with the Big Boys..
A possible scenario;
He has a fling and a bit of a tumble with a couple of Swedish girls.
Girls report him, temporary interest by authorities, but no action.
Another Swedish prosecutor reverses the initial action and prepares charges. (overturning another prosecutor's decision was "not an ordinary procedure, but not so out of the ordinary either".)
Interpol issues a 'Red Notice'(not an international arrest warrant).
Followed shortly by a full Interpol 'global arrest warrant'.
Julian is arrested, taken to court, refused bail, appeals, CPS acts for Swedes to object; fails and;
Assange is released on Bail.
Julian waiting for details from Swedes - they provide 300 pages in Swedish language.
A secret Grand Jury has convened in Alexaxandria in Virginia to consider charges.
Possible collusion between Swedish Government and USA. (Although no collusion between US and any States to fabricate criminal charges has ever been uncovered by wikileaks.)
Julian could be vulnerable to The 1917 Espionage Act 18 USC 793(e), In 1985 it allowed an extraterritorial prosecution of a non-U.S. citizen, The Fourth Circuit upheld the Act against arguments that it was vague and overly broad. A year later, in U.S. v. Boyce, the Ninth Circuit ruled it was "constitutionally sufficient". Easily enough to invent a law or a 'fiddling' around with words suffices. Apart from the above, the US could prosecute Julian with the initial removal of the documents from US government computers, an approach that reports indicate is increasingly likely, especially if Manning was 'encouraged' by Assange, or had given him technical help to get them - the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act - so if Pte Manning says Julian did (to knock of a few years of his 52 year jail sentence).. well...,
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has authorized "significant" actions related to a criminal investigation into WikiLeaks publication of the cables, but has declined to elaborate.
Assange knows that the US is conducting an "aggressive" and "illegal" investigation into him.
Swedish Authorities may well be unofficially 'content' to allow precedence by the US over their own prosecution.
Later Julian Assange extradited to US.
He is a very silly silly man. He may have naive and childlike ambitions and aims to open up the secret correspondence and incidents of a powerful nation, but it's a very very dangerous game he plays..
One can understand why his cohorts have jumped ship.
Any legal boffins out there?
Out of interest, how would the British official secrets act work here? Do you have to sign a promise of non-disclosure, or are you duty bound to abide by it like any other law?
Yes you did have to sign The Official Secrets Act document of non-disclosure.
Yes you did have to sign The Official Secrets Act document of non-disclosure.
Yes, I know that, sorry I wasn't too clear what I meant. What I meant does the act apply for people who haven't signed it?
For example, could somebody be charged with releasing secrets they weren't supposed to have access to?
Poor old Julian
Seems he's worried now; it's to quote; "very serious" - why does such a person who deliberately releases secret documents (no matter if they may just contain nonsense or not) obtained via a Military Clerk in the US Army, not realise that one can't take on a powerful nation - no matter how 'powerful' ones Lawyers are?
In no way is it a fair and perfect world, in fact it's a nasty, dirty, place, where there is a constant undercurrent of Machiavellian actions that go on, that no amount of digging and exposure of 'secret' communications will uncover.
Assange is a very little man who is playing a very dangerous game with the Big Boys..
A possible scenario;
He has a fling and a bit of a tumble with a couple of Swedish girls.
Girls report him, temporary interest by authorities, but no action.
Another Swedish prosecutor reverses the initial action and prepares charges. (overturning another prosecutor's decision was "not an ordinary procedure, but not so out of the ordinary either".)
Interpol issues a 'Red Notice'(not an international arrest warrant).
Followed shortly by a full Interpol 'global arrest warrant'.
Julian is arrested, taken to court, refused bail, appeals, CPS acts for Swedes to object; fails and;
Assange is released on Bail.
Julian waiting for details from Swedes - they provide 300 pages in Swedish language.
A secret Grand Jury has convened in Alexaxandria in Virginia to consider charges.
Possible collusion between Swedish Government and USA. (Although no collusion between US and any States to fabricate criminal charges has ever been uncovered by wikileaks.)
Julian could be vulnerable to The 1917 Espionage Act 18 USC 793(e), In 1985 it allowed an extraterritorial prosecution of a non-U.S. citizen, The Fourth Circuit upheld the Act against arguments that it was vague and overly broad. A year later, in U.S. v. Boyce, the Ninth Circuit ruled it was "constitutionally sufficient". Easily enough to invent a law or a 'fiddling' around with words suffices. Apart from the above, the US could prosecute Julian with the initial removal of the documents from US government computers, an approach that reports indicate is increasingly likely, especially if Manning was 'encouraged' by Assange, or had given him technical help to get them - the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act - so if Pte Manning says Julian did (to knock of a few years of his 52 year jail sentence).. well...,
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has authorized "significant" actions related to a criminal investigation into WikiLeaks publication of the cables, but has declined to elaborate.
Assange knows that the US is conducting an "aggressive" and "illegal" investigation into him.
Swedish Authorities may well be unofficially 'content' to allow precedence by the US over their own prosecution.
Later Julian Assange extradited to US.
He is a very silly silly man. He may have naive and childlike ambitions and aims to open up the secret correspondence and incidents of a powerful nation, but it's a very very dangerous game he plays..
One can understand why his cohorts have jumped ship.
You always seem to comment with glee on the little guy getting crushed by the over excesses and illegal acts of an insecure and vengeful government.
EDIT: I'm also rather concerned with people commenting in a rather masturbatory fashion how fun it is to sentence someone to what is essentially prison rape.
You always seem to comment with glee on the little guy getting crushed by the over excesses and illegal acts of an insecure and vengeful government.
EDIT: I'm also rather concerned with people commenting in a rather masturbatory fashion how fun it is to sentence someone to what is essentially prison rape.
Glee? no that ain't glee chum, satisfaction maybe, but not glee.. my heart bleeds for the 'little guy' - that is IF he was a real 'little guy' - not some egomaniac who's so-called friends deserted him in droves, and millionairs who swoon at his feet.. "Being 'crushed' by over excesses and illegal acts", good grief, where did that come from?
My purpose was to give my own idea of a scenario, or where the naive twit is going - I see no 'glee' in my post, pointing out in basic terms, that it's a big bad world away from the desk and the computer - something he seems totally unaware of - an attitude shared by others it appears.
I also take issue with your EDIT. why use my post to comment on unsavoury comments by others - your sensitivities should be reserved for the alleged rape victims in Sweden.
You always seem to comment with glee on the little guy getting crushed by the over excesses and illegal acts of an insecure and vengeful government.
EDIT: I'm also rather concerned with people commenting in a rather masturbatory fashion how fun it is to sentence someone to what is essentially prison rape.
My feeling is he deserves what is coming to him. All the latest is just gossip about stuff that anyone sensible assumes goes on anyway. But stuff they have leaked in the past could and probably did have disastrous consequences. And he doesn't seem very remorseful about the other "little guy" facing 52 years in prison!
One good thing though, this proves to me that the US can’t keep secrets, so it is safe to assume that all the Roswell and Area 51 stuff is baloney.
Let me restate that and throw it back at you, can you think of any specific example in the leaked cables that is actually dangerous for the public to know. Not people saying it's dangerous I mean actually dangerous.
Simples, put in Google; taliban wikileaks informers
The Pepsi Challenge
20-Dec-10, 02:56
Do you believe that the public should have unfettered access to every single communication that is made in Government?
Just noticed your post so apologies for the tardy reply. Anyway, perhaps when governments bother to
explain why they routinely deny knowledge - and it's because they can, not because they have to - maybe then I'll give my answer to the question.
Originally Posted by RecQuery http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=799372#post799372)
Let me restate that and throw it back at you, can you think of any specific example in the leaked cables that is actually dangerous for the public to know. Not people saying it's dangerous I mean actually dangerous.
Having been following the posts in this thread, I have to say that the above is one of the most ridiculous statements I have read so far. RecQuery have you any idea of the terror that the Afghans who have gone out of their way and put their own lives at risk to help others in the fight against the Taliban are now under because of the wikileaks. If not I suggest you do as Beks suggests and put those three words into google search. It will probably bring up 135000 results for you to read, but here is just one of them and if you do not call that dangerous then I do not know what you would. [disgust]
The Taliban in Afghanistan have threatened to behead informers whose identity has been revealed in uncensored US intelligence documents published on Internet by WikiLeaks.
"We know how to punish them," the Taliban said last night in their first response since the online whistleblower placed thousands of secret documents online detailing names and locations of anti-Taliban informers.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai yesterday entered the controversy over the disclosure of the names of Afghans who have co-operated with NATO forces branding it as "extremely irresponsible and shocking".
"Their lives will be in danger now... This is a very serious issue," he said.
Politicians, military figures and human rights groups have all criticised the influential Internet site amid allegations that the information available could provide Taliban a hit-list.
Colonel Richard Kemp, former head of UK forces in Afghanistan, said: "This is potentially damaging to operation security. Publishing this information online increases the enormous dangers our soldiers face".
oldmarine
21-Dec-10, 17:38
Originally Posted by RecQuery http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=799372#post799372)
Let me restate that and throw it back at you, can you think of any specific example in the leaked cables that is actually dangerous for the public to know. Not people saying it's dangerous I mean actually dangerous.
Having been following the posts in this thread, I have to say that the above is one of the most ridiculous statements I have read so far. RecQuery have you any idea of the terror that the Afghans who have gone out of their way and put their own lives at risk to help others in the fight against the Taliban are now under because of the wikileaks. If not I suggest you do as Beks suggests and put those three words into google search. It will probably bring up 135000 results for you to read, but here is just one of them and if you do not call that dangerous then I do not know what you would. [disgust]
The Taliban in Afghanistan have threatened to behead informers whose identity has been revealed in uncensored US intelligence documents published on Internet by WikiLeaks.
"We know how to punish them," the Taliban said last night in their first response since the online whistleblower placed thousands of secret documents online detailing names and locations of anti-Taliban informers.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai yesterday entered the controversy over the disclosure of the names of Afghans who have co-operated with NATO forces branding it as "extremely irresponsible and shocking".
"Their lives will be in danger now... This is a very serious issue," he said.
Politicians, military figures and human rights groups have all criticised the influential Internet site amid allegations that the information available could provide Taliban a hit-list.
Colonel Richard Kemp, former head of UK forces in Afghanistan, said: "This is potentially damaging to operation security. Publishing this information online increases the enormous dangers our soldiers face".
I share my concerns with the above quotes. We had the same concerns during WW2. I remember a statement going around during that time. LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS. I have a concern for the UK troops of today as well as the USA troops. You younger people may not understand this, but I consider this a threat to our freedom for today.
Both of my parents were in the armed forces during WW2 and were they alive they would agree with your sentiments entirely.
I really feel for our lads and lasses who are out there in any conflict at the present time, without having to deal with the havoc something like the 'wikileaks' can cause.
The Drunken Duck
21-Dec-10, 18:46
This is an excerpt from an e-mail sent to Michael Yon, an Independent Reporter, and describes what happens to people deemed to be an "informer" in that part of the world .. full article here .. http://www.michaelyon-online.com/our-muslim-friends-suffer-too.htm
The American SNCO writes ..
SGM Mohemmed al-Ahbab was a member of the ICTF and Iraqi Special Forces (ISF). He rode many miles with me and my crew, and was right in the middle of any fray we had, moving quickly to the sounds of the guns. The Iraqi Counter-Terrorism Force (ICTF) was on everyone's hit list, as they were fighting for Iraq, and against all who were not for Iraq first. The ICFT killed plenty of Anti-Iraqi Forces (AIF) and Al Qaeda - Iraq (AQI), and I was privileged to go on many raids and operations with them. I was never afraid of them - they were patriots and fierce fighters.
To soften the blow to the Lion 7 team, the above email reflects what I told them.
However the truth is this .. he was captured leaving his Sadr City (Tharwa) home. His brothers had been captured, tortured and killed while refusing to disclose his location. His father suffered the same fate. Finally, Mohammed himself was captured coming back from leave. For the next four days, sadistic Shi’a *expletive deleted* (and he was himself Shi’a) beat him to the point of opening tissue and breaking major bones, used electric drills to drill every major joint (elbows, knees, ankles, shoulders), several locations in his skull, and every rib. Not to leave a single nerve unexposed, they used a Sawz-all to cut a notch from his bottom jaw, four teeth wide, and to the jut of his chin. Still, he lived.
Still alive after four days of this, he was shot twice in the head. He was bruised and swollen almost beyond recognition, but a tattoo revealed his identity.
A couple of weeks later, I was called by the CSM of the USSF element at the Radwaniyah Palace Complex (RPC) in Baghdad, and asked if I wanted to come along on the raid to kill/capture the *expletives deleted* that had tortured and killed Mohemmed. Well, of course!
Message Ends.
If any person named in a document released by Wikileaks suffers a fate such as the above Assange should be prosecuted as an accomplice in their murder. Because after all he put the victim in the spotlight and the killers on their trail.
Anyone seen the book of secrets by Julian Assange up for download. It's password protected and the password will be released if anything happens to him.
That's some bargaining chips.
Anyone seen the book of secrets by Julian Assange up for download. It's password protected and the password will be released if anything happens to him.
That's some bargaining chips.
'Bargaining chips' - what a joke!, all that'll do is put him deeper in the poo..
Does Julian really think he can bargain?.. he's dreaming (once again)
Many weeks back there was this 'threat' to release documents, quote: 'highly damaging, nuclear explosion equivalent' if Julian was arrested.
Well he might have missed it, but he WAS and spent a week in nick.. empty threats serve no purpose..
'Bargaining chips' - what a joke!, all that'll do is put him deeper in the poo..
On the contrary, Julian has become a threat to US Security in their eyes. They will try anything to take him out of the picture (so to speak). What with rumours that these Swedish sexual accusations were the work of US spys trying to get him locked away.
If Julian goes to the US, he can be tried on spying and espionage which is serious stuff over there. I already know there's alot of Americans calling for his head on a platter. If he gets assassinated because of his nature of business(which I highly doubt will happen). That's when the rest of them team can release this data, which will no doubt be the worst thing that the US could let happen.
It puts them in a tricky spot to manouver from.
On the contrary, Julian has become a threat to US Security in their eyes. They will try anything to take him out of the picture (so to speak). What with rumours that these Swedish sexual accusations were the work of US spys trying to get him locked away.
If Julian goes to the US, he can be tried on spying and espionage which is serious stuff over there. I already know there's alot of Americans calling for his head on a platter. If he gets assassinated because of his nature of business(which I highly doubt will happen). That's when the rest of them team can release this data, which will no doubt be the worst thing that the US could let happen.
It puts them in a tricky spot to manouver from.
'Threat to US security'? if you mean he's being a pain in the arse, and giving the Taliban full details on informers in Afghanistan,so that the get murdered, then yes he is a 'security' problem.
I'm afraid the various agencies of the US (and others) are not too concerned about this silly 'man', the US is a big, powerful nation who could swat him like a fly if they so wished, but political sensitivities puts this in abeyance - for the moment.
However, Julian admits that he, his son (who's gone into hiding in Aussie land) and Stevens have recently received many 'death threats' - according to Julian, from 'the US military' - heaven forbid, assassination? no, wouldn't thought so; too crude, and umbrellas went out many years ago, but on the other hand, just needs a nutter among 'em and....
'Take him out of the picture' - I don't really think the US will bow to blackmail somehow. As to US spies involved - have you read the full transcript in the Guardian - the full statement from the Swedish woman - the nonsense of them working for the CIA, is conjecture that one of 'em was involved in anti-Castro activities - like quite a few thousand others,
I don't like the SNP but I ain't in the pay of the Tories..
Strange but I don't see a single word in support of poor Pte Manning - looks like facing 52 years, Julian does not mention him - I wonder why?
I really wonder what mythical and fantastic data, Julian's followers have that can make the US tremble.. I think "puts them in a tricky spot to manoeuvre from" should really be applied to Assange and his bunch of (rather) strange bed-fellows; Hi de Hi
I wonder if the politicians should be prosecuted for causing the deaths of people, or companies, or CEOs etc. This information has been sanitised anyway, they started screaming the same tale of sound and fury at the initial release a while back and nothing happened. It's a red herring until they give a specific, proven and reviewed example, not some crap from a right wing blog or biased media source.
Ignoring the CIA connection through the feminist anti-Castro group, how do you explain both women boosting on Twitter for about a week about how they bedded Julian, they also held a part in his honour the next day.
How do you explain the reluctance of the prosecutor to release text messages that essentially show them making the story up.
How do you explain the initial prosecutor having too much ethics to charge someone on a bogus charge.
As for Manning there are funds and a legal team but he's subject to military justice. Right now they're trying to isolate him and get him to not fight the charge and agree to anything, hence the 'media stories' about Julian and Wikileaks turning there back on him.
oldmarine
22-Dec-10, 15:50
On the contrary, Julian has become a threat to US Security in their eyes. They will try anything to take him out of the picture (so to speak). What with rumours that these Swedish sexual accusations were the work of US spys trying to get him locked away.
If Julian goes to the US, he can be tried on spying and espionage which is serious stuff over there. I already know there's alot of Americans calling for his head on a platter. If he gets assassinated because of his nature of business(which I highly doubt will happen). That's when the rest of them team can release this data, which will no doubt be the worst thing that the US could let happen.
It puts them in a tricky spot to manouver from.
You should also consider that Julian has become a threat to the UK as well as the US. The UK lads fighting alonside the US lads are also in danger. My thoughts are bring them all back so they can defend our own borders. But then, that would allow the Taliban, Islamic Muslims, etc., to eventually attack us in our own countries. This is something they are dedicated to do. You folks have already seen it in London and it won't stop there. The folks in the US have already seen it in their country. This reminds me of the Axis powers prior to WW2 and what they eventually tried to do. Are we to see a repeat of history?
picturegifts
22-Dec-10, 16:18
Simples, put in Google; taliban wikileaks informers
Did as you suggested, all that came up was a list of pages dated from July. Could not find one case of any proven retribution.
I wonder if the politicians should be prosecuted for causing the deaths of people, or companies, or CEOs etc. This information has been sanitised anyway, they started screaming the same tale of sound and fury at the initial release a while back and nothing happened. It's a red herring until they give a specific, proven and reviewed example, not some crap from a right wing blog or biased media source.
Ignoring the CIA connection through the feminist anti-Castro group, how do you explain both women boosting on Twitter for about a week about how they bedded Julian, they also held a part in his honour the next day.
How do you explain the reluctance of the prosecutor to release text messages that essentially show them making the story up.
How do you explain the initial prosecutor having too much ethics to charge someone on a bogus charge.
As for Manning there are funds and a legal team but he's subject to military justice. Right now they're trying to isolate him and get him to not fight the charge and agree to anything, hence the 'media stories' about Julian and Wikileaks turning there back on him.
I'm surprised at your line; "the information has been sanitised anyway" "Red Herring" "crap" - come, come, no need for naughty words! - whiffs of denial, or at the very least ignorance of the facts. On reflecting upon this, I can't really understand that you do not believe that documents were released un-redacted? . Assange, in his enthusiasm, sent this stuff to thousands of people/locations. The Guardian and the New York Times were intelligent and adult enough to redact/censure much of it.
How can anyone be convinced that any of the others who hold this info, would not release it carte blanche. 'The names and details of dozens on informants who have helped coalition forces root out Taliban fighters have been published unedited. In some cases, even the GPS co-ordinates of their homes have been revealed.' Par for the course is that your friend Julian's admission that he has read only 4,000 of the 90,000-plus files posted. "In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers' names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces," ( The Times of London )
But it's the Yanks fault!, says wonder boy Julian; "We are appalled that the US military was so lackadaisical with its Afghan sources," he told the Observer. " what a silly thing to say. Opps, sorry better mention that the original quote above is not some 'crap from a right wing blog or biased media source' you detest (ref your posted distaste of Daily Mail readers.) but from the Left Wing Observer - a simple search brings similar from the other left-wing papers - even the Socialist Worker mentions it! ..
I see you refer to Twitter, hmm good source of information that one!.. If the women had tweeted the next day would it not be in Julian's interest to actually go to court and let his high powered lawyers use that evidence? What on earth is he frightened of? I ask you again to read the full 68-page confidential Swedish police report - details in the Guardian and New York Times, which have been released by the Swedes..- The Guardian is now in his doghouse for biting the hand that fed it — revealing explicit details of the sexual allegations made against him in Sweden! As for the prosecutors’ actions, interviews with legal experts suggest that it would not be abnormal for such a high-level case to move up the hierarchy of prosecutors, with disagreements over how to apply Sweden’s finely calibrated laws on sexual misconduct. Those decisions were reversed in late August when the chief state prosecutor, Marianne Ny, overruling a subordinate prosecutor in Stockholm
Incidentally, I (quoting your post) would like to know: what "part" did they [the women] hold in his honour?.. I'm intrigued. :lol:
Poor Manning, trying to get him not to fight the case and agree to anything.. having myself been questioned rather robustly, I don't think Manning will put up much of a fight, would not be surprised he may well tell fibs (shock, horror), and put the onus on Assange to get a reduction in his jail term.. and bear in mind: "Mr Assange also claims he lost a tooth while in jail after chewing on a metal object in a plate of food. He said: “I don't know if it was put there or if it was a simple accident.” He said he wrapped the tooth up in paper but it later disappeared from his cell. Hmm interesting, 'disappeared from his cell'. plenty of Julian's DNA there then.. 'hello hello' what's your DNA doing on these stolen documents from the USA, ah, so you were there then eh?".. Oh he's so sweet.
It's sometimes difficult to get into the website of the Swedish prosecutor's office as some geek keeps trying to bring it down, so much for free speech, is what I say . I'm not saying there's anything wrong with someone being an armchair or swivel-chair critic, but I should imagine you've not been out into the big nasty ole world of the Middle East, but if you expect to see an 'informer' put in front of the tribal elders and gently questioned over their involvement with the US forces, then slapped on the wrist and a "on your way chummy", you live in a very isolated world.. in fact, in a majority of cases, these people "just disappear"..
OK it's been a fair time since I spent a couple of years there, but my son and Daughter in Law are both serving soldiers (No, they are not 'heroes' as your derisive comments in an earlier post), but obviously know and can see with their own eyes, during their Iraq and Afghan Tours.
"Loose Lips Sink Ships" - is an adage that still holds as good today as back in WWII - it's a darn pity that there still exists naive folk who don't believe a word of it.. 'The irony is that his ultimate achievement will be to make everything, even the trivial tittle tattle, more secret and less transparent and limit dangerous stuff like defence and foreign policy discussion to fewer individuals nearer the top of government' - sigh, so very true
Did as you suggested, all that came up was a list of pages dated from July. Could not find one case of any proven retribution.
What did you expect; it to be on the Kabul evening news? it does not work like that; 'people just disappear' you know..
Julian's not another 'Che' Guevara I'm afraid.. ;)
I'm surprised at your line; "the information has been sanitised anyway" "Red Herring" "crap" - come, come, no need for naughty words! - whiffs of denial, or at the very least ignorance of the facts. On reflecting upon this, I can't really understand that you do not believe that documents were released un-redacted? . Assange, in his enthusiasm, sent this stuff to thousands of people/locations. The Guardian and the New York Times were intelligent and adult enough to redact/censure much of it.
How can anyone be convinced that any of the others who hold this info, would not release it carte blanche. 'The names and details of dozens on informants who have helped coalition forces root out Taliban fighters have been published unedited. In some cases, even the GPS co-ordinates of their homes have been revealed.' Par for the course is that your friend Julian's admission that he has read only 4,000 of the 90,000-plus files posted. "In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers' names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces," ( The Times of London )
But it's the Yanks fault!, says wonder boy Julian; "We are appalled that the US military was so lackadaisical with its Afghan sources," he told the Observer. " what a silly thing to say. Opps, sorry better mention that the original quote above is not some 'crap from a right wing blog or biased media source' you detest (ref your posted distaste of Daily Mail readers.) but from the Left Wing Observer - a simple search brings similar from the other left-wing papers - even the Socialist Worker mentions it! ..
I see you refer to Twitter, hmm good source of information that one!.. If the women had tweeted the next day would it not be in Julian's interest to actually go to court and let his high powered lawyers use that evidence? What on earth is he frightened of? I ask you again to read the full 68-page confidential Swedish police report - details in the Guardian and New York Times, which have been released by the Swedes..- The Guardian is now in his doghouse for biting the hand that fed it — revealing explicit details of the sexual allegations made against him in Sweden! As for the prosecutors’ actions, interviews with legal experts suggest that it would not be abnormal for such a high-level case to move up the hierarchy of prosecutors, with disagreements over how to apply Sweden’s finely calibrated laws on sexual misconduct. Those decisions were reversed in late August when the chief state prosecutor, Marianne Ny, overruling a subordinate prosecutor in Stockholm
Incidentally, I (quoting your post) would like to know: what "part" did they [the women] hold in his honour?.. I'm intrigued. :lol:
Poor Manning, trying to get him not to fight the case and agree to anything.. having myself been questioned rather robustly, I don't think Manning will put up much of a fight, would not be surprised he may well tell fibs (shock, horror), and put the onus on Assange to get a reduction in his jail term.. and bear in mind: "Mr Assange also claims he lost a tooth while in jail after chewing on a metal object in a plate of food. He said: “I don't know if it was put there or if it was a simple accident.” He said he wrapped the tooth up in paper but it later disappeared from his cell. Hmm interesting, 'disappeared from his cell'. plenty of Julian's DNA there then.. 'hello hello' what's your DNA doing on these stolen documents from the USA, ah, so you were there then eh?".. Oh he's so sweet.
It's sometimes difficult to get into the website of the Swedish prosecutor's office as some geek keeps trying to bring it down, so much for free speech, is what I say . I'm not saying there's anything wrong with someone being an armchair or swivel-chair critic, but I should imagine you've not been out into the big nasty ole world of the Middle East, but if you expect to see an 'informer' put in front of the tribal elders and gently questioned over their involvement with the US forces, then slapped on the wrist and a "on your way chummy", you live in a very isolated world.. in fact, in a majority of cases, these people "just disappear"..
OK it's been a fair time since I spent a couple of years there, but my son and Daughter in Law are both serving soldiers (No, they are not 'heroes' as your derisive comments in an earlier post), but obviously know and can see with their own eyes, during their Iraq and Afghan Tours.
"Loose Lips Sink Ships" - is an adage that still holds as good today as back in WWII - it's a darn pity that there still exists naive folk who don't believe a word of it.. 'The irony is that his ultimate achievement will be to make everything, even the trivial tittle tattle, more secret and less transparent and limit dangerous stuff like defence and foreign policy discussion to fewer individuals nearer the top of government' - sigh, so very true
It's all been sanitised, the unsantisied and really sensitive stuff is in the insurance file, that's why it took so long to release
They, primarily Anna Ardin has been going around editing and redacting stuff, but just check the Google cache or the 'Way Back Machine' version of pages. I'd say it's a good first-hand source considering it's her words, written and posted by her. The legal team is trying a lot of things but getting stonewalled.
At this point the Swedish site being down could be due to legitimate interest, it wasn't well hosted in the first place and people constantly refreshing could easily look like a DoS, but just for reference Wikileaks itself was attacked as were several sites supporting it first. 4Chan and Anonymous only started their attacks in retaliation, the same way they did when the RIAA and MPAA started attacking sites.
It's all been sanitised, the unsantisied and really sensitive stuff is in the insurance file, that's why it took so long to release .
Keep hearing about this 'insurance file' - when is it being released? when he's arrested? Nope. When he's in Nick; Nope, so any idea when?
Seriously, have you any hints of what's in Pandora's box?
picturegifts
22-Dec-10, 17:43
Simples, put in Google; taliban wikileaks informers
Did as you suggested, all that came up was a list of pages dated from July. Could not find one case of any proven retribution.
What did you expect; it to be on the Kabul evening news? it does not work like that; 'people just disappear' you know.. Julian's not another 'Che' Guevara I'm afraid.. ;)
I am sure that if anyone who had been "named" by Wikileaks had suffered in anyway, it would have been front page news in all the usual right wing papers
It is now 6 months, and a subsequent even bigger release of "leaks", and so far nothing.
Surely any 'people (who) just disappear' would have been missed by colleagues, minders etc.
I am sure that if anyone who had been "named" by Wikileaks had suffered in anyway, it would have been front page news in all the usual right wing papers
It is now 6 months, and a subsequent even bigger release of "leaks", and so far nothing.
Surely any 'people (who) just disappear' would have been missed by colleagues, minders etc.
Looks like I've invoked Pavlov's Response here; "the usual right-wing papers" indeed. But my dear chap/ess please note these comments were also in left-wing newspapers - please concentrate now..
Ah, this makes it much more clearer, I can see where you are coming from now.
I know for a fact a lot of people have been taken into protective custody, extra security measures are in place, and lets face it, being entirely practical, it ain't likely the Yanks are going to broadcast that informers are getting bopped off, are they (does not help informant recruitment, you see)..
BUT, let's get back to basics, do you believe this to be true?:'The names and details of dozens on informants who have helped coalition forces root out Taliban fighters have been published unedited. In some cases, even the GPS co-ordinates of their homes have been revealed.' . "In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers' names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces," ( The Times of London )
picturegifts
22-Dec-10, 18:57
I am sure that if anyone who had been "named" by Wikileaks had suffered in anyway, it would have been front page news in all the usual right wing papers
It is now 6 months, and a subsequent even bigger release of "leaks", and so far nothing.
Surely any 'people (who) just disappear' would have been missed by colleagues, minders etc.
Looks like I've invoked Pavlov's Response here; "the usual right-wing papers" indeed. But my dear chap/ess please note these comments were also in left-wing newspapers - please concentrate now..
I think it is you who should be concentrating. I asked a fairly simple question which you have misread. However, I will allow you the priviledge of naming any newspaper, or other forms of the media which have carried a story of a person suffering as a result of being named in these "leaks"
"..I know for a fact a lot of people have been taken into protective custody, extra security measures are in place, and lets face it, being entirely practical, it ain't likely the Yanks are going to broadcast that informers are getting bopped off, are they (does not help informant recruitment, you see)..
From what I can gather you are not a current armed forces member of staff. So, I assume that someone has conveyed to you the above information - is this not what is now called a "leak"
BUT, let's get back to basics, do you believe this to be true?:'The names and details of dozens on informants who have helped coalition forces root out Taliban fighters have been published unedited. In some cases, even the GPS co-ordinates of their homes have been revealed.' . "In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers' names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces," ( The Times of London )
I read the Timesonline and could not find this quote so I "googled" it and it confirmed ny findings that it did not originate from "The Times"
It did however return another old (August 2010) article of a periodical called "The First Post" (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/66625,news-comment,news-politics,us-armys-fault-if-afghans-are-at-risk-says-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange)
But irrespective of the quote, what I think is that you, and others, have to accept that war is a dirty game and all the old rules and conventions have long gone out of the window.
I think it is you who should be concentrating. I asked a fairly simple question which you have misread. However, I will allow you the priviledge of naming any newspaper, or other forms of the media which have carried a story of a person suffering as a result of being named in these "leaks"
From what I can gather you are not a current armed forces member of staff. So, I assume that someone has conveyed to you the above information - is this not what is now called a "leak"
I read the Timesonline and could not find this quote so I "googled" it and it confirmed ny findings that it did not originate from "The Times"
It did however return another old (August 2010) article of a periodical called "The First Post" (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/66625,news-comment,news-politics,us-armys-fault-if-afghans-are-at-risk-says-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange)
But irrespective of the quote, what I think is that you, and others, have to accept that war is a dirty game and all the old rules and conventions have long gone out of the window.
Oh come on now - give us an answer, go on,go on, go on, give me the priviledge(sic) of an answer do you believe those quotes were true -
I've given you information as to what is happening to those 'informers' to whit:" know for a fact a lot of people have been taken into protective custody, extra security measures are in place, and lets face it, being entirely practical, it ain't likely the Yanks are going to broadcast that informers are getting bopped off, are they (does not help informant recruitment, you see)..
Nope I'm not a current armed forces member - and it's not 'leaks'.. you my friend obviously have no realisation or idea of how the military operates - or have you?
I don't think July 2010 is 'Old' did you really do a Google? and you only came up with 'the first post'?
I find it extremely humorous in your telling 'me' and 'others' that 'we' have to accept that war is a dirty game and all the old rules and conventions have long gone out of the window" - now THAT is a funny! :lol:
The Drunken Duck
22-Dec-10, 19:43
Picturegifts ..
Did you read about the torture and killing of Sgt Al Ahbab in the papers ?? .. it was not reported on by the media because it is not something they wish highlighted. Mainly because that would be us advertising to the world on behalf of the Taliban, I am sure they would love that, you know us advertising thier handiwork for them. Are you so naive and dull to think that just because you don't see it on the BBC, Sky or in print it doesn't happen ??, If you want proof of what goes on out there go to the Army Rumour Service and look for a poster called "ABrighter2006", he ran a series of threads containing e-mails from an Iraqi who worked as an Interpreter for us. Once we left Basra his mates started disappearing and turning up dead. Often in separate bits. And he was scared, and all the while we wouldnt let him into this country. Shameful. Or you could speak to an old Air Force mate of mine who is now a TA and has done two tours in Afghan. He can tell you some stories that will keep you awake at night. The one about the eight year old girl and her encounter with a pair of pliers, held by a Taliban, that their medic initially treated is particularly harrowing. Or should I tell him that it didn't happen because it wasn't in the papers or on the TV for you to read ??
I have been out of the Air Force thirteen years but I still know a bit about current ops that is not public knowledge, because I trained some of the guys out there who are now running things. Would they tell you ?? .. not a chance. Do we talk amongst ourselves ?? .. yup. And only because we know to keep the details to ourselves, because we know the effects it can have when people who dont need to know get it. Like transit times to CAS boxes etc etc, alll stuff that could be useful to a man with a SAM.
And so despite the fact that many Governments, including Afghanistan, have condemned the release of so called informants names you doubt it because you couldn't find it on Google ?? .. are you for real ?? did you come to your conclusions on conflict yourself or because someone on the goggle box told you so ?? .. I think Beks, and others on this site, are WELL aware that conflict is a nasty business. And without biting your head off don't need to hear the obvious stated by someone who clearly doesn't have a clue what it IS really like.
I used to have a standard answer for people who thought they "had a right to know" what I knew .. November Oscar Yankee Foxtrot Bravo. Take the first letter of each and make a statement. I'll start you off .. NOY = None Of Your.
I am sure you can work out the rest .. ;)
picturegifts
22-Dec-10, 20:00
"..I don't think July 2010 is 'Old' did you really do a Google? and you only came up with 'the first post'.."?
Actually I found two, the link I posted, and your post on this thread (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22names+and+details+of+dozens+on+informa nts+who+have+helped+coalition+forces+root+out+Tali ban+fighters+have+been+published+unedited.+In+some +cases%2C+even+the+GPS+co-ordinates+of+their+homes+have+been+revealed.%27+.+ %22In+just+two+hours+of+searching+the+WikiLeaks+ar chive%2C+reporters+found+the+names%2C+villages%2C+ and+fathers%27+names+of+dozens+of+Afghans+credited +with+providing+intelligence+to+U.S%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a)!
I find it extremely humorous in your telling 'me' and 'others' that 'we' have to accept that war is a dirty game and all the old rules and conventions have long gone out of the window" - now THAT is a funny! :lol:
I find it quite sad that you find any aspect of war "funny"
BUT, let's get back to basics, do you believe this to be true?:'The names and details of dozens on informants who have helped coalition forces root out Taliban fighters have been published unedited. In some cases, even the GPS co-ordinates of their homes have been revealed.' . "In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers' names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces," ( The Times of London )
Hey what is this? The Orgs own paperboy (Bekisman) getting a newspaper quote wrong!
Hey what is this? The Orgs own paperboy (Bekisman) getting a newspaper quote wrong!
LMAO, this is great coming from the Orgs visiting troll [lol]
Actually I found two, the link I posted, and your post on this thread (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22names+and+details+of+dozens+on+informa nts+who+have+helped+coalition+forces+root+out+Tali ban+fighters+have+been+published+unedited.+In+some +cases%2C+even+the+GPS+co-ordinates+of+their+homes+have+been+revealed.%27+.+ %22In+just+two+hours+of+searching+the+WikiLeaks+ar chive%2C+reporters+found+the+names%2C+villages%2C+ and+fathers%27+names+of+dozens+of+Afghans+credited +with+providing+intelligence+to+U.S%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a)!
I find it quite sad that you find any aspect of war "funny"
Re your initial post of "Did as you suggested, all that came up was a list of pages dated from July. Could not find one case of any proven retribution Taliban wikileaks informers" This was dealing with my suggestion of putting in Taliban wikileaks informers - you brushed this off as you naively stated you could not find any case of proven retribution - I think you have to agree that DrunkenDuck explained that all to you..
My initial question still stands; Do you believe that details were released by wikileaks indicating names, locations of informers'
Your next sentence: "I find it quite sad that you find any aspect of war "funny"
EH? you're not serious are you?, are you really that obtuse? I'll tell you what, I'll highlight the words which I find funny (OK?)
I find it extremely humorous in your telling 'me' and 'others' that 'we' have to accept that war is a dirty game and all the old rules and conventions have long gone out of the window" - now THAT is a funny!
Translation: Having served 15 years in the military and my three sons for a additional total of 35 years, it is FUNNY that YOU tell 'us' "war is a dirty old game.."
Don't you think I know this?,
Exits left laughing, and shaking head..:roll:
Hey what is this? The Orgs own paperboy (Bekisman) getting a newspaper quote wrong!
Sorry old chap, but as you can read above, certain folks keep insisting I name newspapers.
As you know from our earlier confrontations (I mean conversations) I don't like to use the press for details.. I do have my own 'direct' channel, but, as they say, sigh, when in Rome..
BUT, let's get back to basics, do you believe this to be true?:'The names and details of dozens on informants who have helped coalition forces root out Taliban fighters have been published unedited. In some cases, even the GPS co-ordinates of their homes have been revealed.' . "In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, reporters found the names, villages, and fathers' names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing intelligence to U.S. forces," ( The Times of London )
Sorry old chap, but as you can read above, certain folks keep insisting I name newspapers.
Er, you did name a newspaper!
Er, you did name a newspaper!
I know, and I'm wracked with guilt, I didn't mean it; honest guvn'r but I was pushed.. :(
I find it quite sad that you find any aspect of war "funny"
Personally, I think you must have led a very sheltered life with no-one who has spoken to you about life in the forces either in WW2 or more recent wars. If you had had relatives who were in WW2 or more recent ones and they were in the midst of the conflict there is no-way they would have told you the gory details, they would have told you the 'funny' stories. They would not have told you how they were tortured by the Japs in the prison of war camps or on the Burma railway for 3 years, nor the fact that up to them dying at 83 years of age they still had nightmares at night.
If you worked within the civilian services, police, fire, ambulance, they have the weirdest sense of humour, but how do you think they cope the gory scenes they have to clear up, humour, but that is between themselves because it is only those in the know that understand what they have gone through.
You should read carefully what the others here have written and just maybe you might learn something from them.
I have been out of the Air Force thirteen years but I still know a bit about current ops that is not public knowledge, because I trained some of the guys out there who are now running things. Would they tell you ?? .. not a chance. Do we talk amongst ourselves ?? .. yup. And only because we know to keep the details to ourselves, because we know the effects it can have when people who dont need to know get it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but did you not delete one of your first posts on this forum because it contained information about current activities, or words to that effect
The Drunken Duck
23-Dec-10, 00:01
Correct me if I am wrong, but did you not delete one of your first posts on this forum because it contained information about current activities, or words to that effect
You are wrong.
Nothing I posted back then contained current information. I was attempting to describe how why and when air power is used and the hazards and safety ranges involved. Nothing classified, you could find it yourself on the Internet, in fact this document goes into a lot more detail about Joint Procedures for Close Air Support and is freely available .. http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp3_09_3.pdf
I just worded it in such a way that anyone reading it, and who quite fancied taking a fast jet down, would have got a few pointers. And I am obviously not going to help those people out am I ??
oldmarine
23-Dec-10, 04:32
Personally, I think you must have led a very sheltered life with no-one who has spoken to you about life in the forces either in WW2 or more recent wars. If you had had relatives who were in WW2 or more recent ones and they were in the midst of the conflict there is no-way they would have told you the gory details, they would have told you the 'funny' stories. They would not have told you how they were tortured by the Japs in the prison of war camps or on the Burma railway for 3 years, nor the fact that up to them dying at 83 years of age they still had nightmares at night.
If you worked within the civilian services, police, fire, ambulance, they have the weirdest sense of humour, but how do you think they cope the gory scenes they have to clear up, humour, but that is between themselves because it is only those in the know that understand what they have gone through.
You should read carefully what the others here have written and just maybe you might learn something from them.
Marwill: you have an accurate picture of WW2. The Japanese soldiers were fierce fighters and had a good knowledge of torturing their captives. It took many years for most of us to get over the horrors of war. Fighting in any war is not a pleasant experience. And to be a captive makes it even worse. It's beyond the comprehension of most people who have not experienced the horrors of war.
Keep hearing about this 'insurance file' - when is it being released? when he's arrested? Nope. When he's in Nick; Nope, so any idea when?
Seriously, have you any hints of what's in Pandora's box?
It's already up available for download in various locations, it's contains the redacted information and other things deemed too sensitive or damaging. it's encrypted though, they've still to release the encryption key.
Here's one link to it:
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5723136/WikiLeaks_insurance
http://simontay78.com/personal-thoughts/how-to-open-wikileaks-insurance-aes256-file/
It's already up available for download in various locations, it's contains the redacted information and other things deemed too sensitive or damaging. it's encrypted though, they've still to release the encryption key.
Here's one link to it:
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5723136/WikiLeaks_insurance
http://simontay78.com/personal-thoughts/how-to-open-wikileaks-insurance-aes256-file/
Thanks for that;
Fascinating to actually see it's pragmatically named; "WikiLeaks_insurance" OK, it's encrypted, would it be reasonable to say that some intelligence agency - somewhere - would be able to crack it? 'cos I can't see 'em sitting around sucking their thumbs.
Maybe ole Jimmy Clapper's lot have already done so , and are, this very minute - whilst Julian is under mansion arrest - taking steps to address and mitigate any damage done, so the longer he procrastinates and fights possible extradition, the more time to sort things out.
I may be odd, but I find it incredible that someone who is literally in deep poo - possible stitched up - by powerful nations, reasons that a) if he gets - shall we say, extradited to Sweden/USA, the key will be released and that by releasing this 'sensitive /damaging information' it will assist him in some way? - to my way of thinking, this will simply ensure that b) they throw away the key or c) he will end up, dare I say; dead?
What does it achieve? a martyr? The USA will, like it's always done, simply brush it off and continue.
I would not (and it's very unlikely) to have downloaded a file that contains something that is "nuclear explosion equal" - be something like having kiddie porn on your PC - bit of a susceptibility there.
And conversely, surely if it really is in the public interest this should be published?
The Drunken Duck
23-Dec-10, 13:28
It's already up available for download in various locations, it's contains the redacted information and other things deemed too sensitive or damaging. it's encrypted though, they've still to release the encryption key.
Here's one link to it:
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5723136/WikiLeaks_insurance
http://simontay78.com/personal-thoughts/how-to-open-wikileaks-insurance-aes256-file/
Yawn.
That could contain a cake recipe. And probably does. The only way you can really hold a gun to people's heads with information is if they don't know what it is. Seeing as they do, because it is their information, I bet they are crapping themselves .. really. Don't you think steps have been taken to counter that ?? .. anyway how would Wikileaks KNOW what was sensitive and what is not. These dullards hadn't got the brain power to work out that putting out the names of people working with us against the Taliban might be a bad thing. A blind man in a snowstorm could have worked that one out.
Assange is a fart in a hurricane. He might like to think he is important but I bet no one in any Intelligence Community is bothered about him one iota. Hard to take a man seriously who drones on about others being accountable but runs like a coward the minute he is accused. Strangely enough right into one of the countries he is seeking to "bring to light", where he pleads "privacy" in a bail hearing. What a coward and hypocrite. I resent him being in my country, he be taken to Dover and deported.
Thanks for that;
Fascinating to actually see it's pragmatically named; "WikiLeaks_insurance" OK, it's encrypted, would it be reasonable to say that some intelligence agency - somewhere - would be able to crack it? 'cos I can't see 'em sitting around sucking their thumbs.
Maybe ole Jimmy Clapper's lot have already done so , and are, this very minute - whilst Julian is under mansion arrest - taking steps to address and mitigate any damage done, so the longer he procrastinates and fights possible extradition, the more time to sort things out.
I may be odd, but I find it incredible that someone who is literally in deep poo - possible stitched up - by powerful nations, reasons that a) if he gets - shall we say, extradited to Sweden/USA, the key will be released and that by releasing this 'sensitive /damaging information' it will assist him in some way? - to my way of thinking, this will simply ensure that b) they throw away the key or c) he will end up, dare I say; dead?
What does it achieve? a martyr? The USA will, like it's always done, simply brush it off and continue.
I would not (and it's very unlikely) to have downloaded a file that contains something that is "nuclear explosion equal" - be something like having kiddie porn on your PC - bit of a susceptibility there.
And conversely, surely if it really is in the public interest this should be published?
I'm sure people on all sides are trying to crack or guess the password. It's using AES-256 encryption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard), nothing is uncrackable but you can make it take so long as to not be practical.
Without going to heavily into the math. Say a device could check a billion billion AES keys per second, that would require about 3×1051 years to check the entire 256-bit key space. Obviously it depends on how good the password is but I'd imagine they'd choose a decent passphrase using all the available characters they could.
EDIT: There's not way of knowing exactly what's in it, but I'd say the unredacted and unreleased stuff is a start, not sure what that would be but they had a team going over it all for months before publishing. They may have received more high profile but less known stuff because government and military IT security is just sad, it's not even funny. The only reason Bradley Manning got caught was because he was boosting to Adrian Lamo.
I'm sure people on all sides are trying to crack or guess the password. It's using AES-256 encryption (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard), nothing is uncrackable but you can make it take so long as to not be practical.
Without going to heavily into the math. Say a device could check a billion billion AES keys per second, that would require about 3×1051 years to check the entire 256-bit key space. Obviously it depends on how good the password is but I'd imagine they'd choose a decent passphrase using all the available characters they could.
EDIT: There's not way of knowing exactly what's in it, but I'd say the unredacted and unreleased stuff is a start, not sure what that would be but they had a team going over it all for months before publishing. They may have received more high profile but less known stuff because government and military IT security is just sad, it's not even funny. The only reason Bradley Manning got caught was because he was boosting to Adrian Lamo.
I suppose the 'government and military IT security', doesn't need to be that good, if folk like Lamo work for 'em? -
According to German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, a reporter from Forbes has published information, according to which Adrian Lamo works as a "security specialist" with "Project Vigilant (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_Vigilant&action=edit&redlink=1)", a private security institution which also works for the FBI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI) and the NSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA) ?
You are wrong.
Nothing I posted back then contained current information. I was attempting to describe how why and when air power is used and the hazards and safety ranges involved. Nothing classified, you could find it yourself on the Internet, in fact this document goes into a lot more detail about Joint Procedures for Close Air Support and is freely available .. http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp3_09_3.pdf
I just worded it in such a way that anyone reading it, and who quite fancied taking a fast jet down, would have got a few pointers. And I am obviously not going to help those people out am I ??
I must admit I am still a bit puzzled as to why you would post information that would be useful to someone "who quite fancied taking a fast jet down"
I am sure that you realise that anything that is ever posted on the internet leaves a trace somewhere, so it is quite possible that your post about "taking a fast jet down" is already in enemy hands.
Loose lips.......................
I suppose the 'government and military IT security', doesn't need to be that good, if folk like Lamo work for 'em? -
According to German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, a reporter from Forbes has published information, according to which Adrian Lamo works as a "security specialist" with "Project Vigilant (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_Vigilant&action=edit&redlink=1)", a private security institution which also works for the FBI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI) and the NSA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA) ?
Heh yeah, I'd it's more of a false sense of security he provides. The quick litmus test is that if the person appeared on Tech TV/G4 Tech TV then they have little or no credibility.
Heh yeah, I'd it's more of a false sense of security he provides. The quick litmus test is that if the person appeared on Tech TV/G4 Tech TV then they have little or no credibility.
I'm confused, I thought Manning was boasting to Adrian Lamo, his father chatted to Chet Uber, and Manning was named..
If I'm wrong how did the powers to be discover it was Manning who released the docs?
Is this (below) factual:
“I’m the one who called the U.S. government,” Uber said. “All the people who say that Adrian is a nark, he did a patriotic thing. He sees all kinds of hacks, and he was seriously worried about people dying.”
Uber says that Lamo later called him from the meeting, regretting his decision to inform on Manning. “I’m in a meeting with five guys and I don’t want to do this,” Uber says Lamo told him at the time. Uber says he responded, “You don’t have any choice, you’ve got to do this.”
The Drunken Duck
23-Dec-10, 16:48
I must admit I am still a bit puzzled as to why you would post information that would be useful to someone "who quite fancied taking a fast jet down"
I am sure that you realise that anything that is ever posted on the internet leaves a trace somewhere, so it is quite possible that your post about "taking a fast jet down" is already in enemy hands.
Loose lips.......................
God you haven't changed have you ??
Still I am sure that I am in the crap now with MI6, the post was up for about an hour before I deleted it. I am sure the Taliban got a copy, after all they scour regional websites in Scotland like the Org for the latest information on how to kill infidels. Where else would they look ??, They probably spotted it about ten seconds after I pressed send and copied it right away. Then they formulated a plan for taking down a fast jet and went off into the hills to put it into action.
I actually have a clip though of a couple of British Taliban recruits acting on my information .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TZq25wrCDo .. I think the fast jet guys are pretty safe.
Now off you pop .. you've left your bridge unguarded.
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