Disabled Parking

[©Amethyst]

I hate it when people rant about something so silly, but I've just got so sick of trying to tolerate such a thing. I'm willing to risk the title of 'hypocrite' - but I'm not the one parking where I shouldn't!

I was at the Lidl store in Thurso this afternoon, the manager and I struck up a conversation about the cars that were parked in the disabled spaces. Only one of the 4 cars parked there had a disabled parking permit on the dashboard. We concluded that this was unacceptable.

I felt like going out there and just sitting on a bonnet of one of the cars until its owner came out and telling them what I think of their colourful parking ideas. I probably would have ended up using colourful language, too!

What say ye? I'm trying to find ideas of how I can sort this out as I feel very strongly about this. It just is not fair on disabled people... what if all the spaces were full with cars without permits, and a disabled driver pulled up?

[George Brims]

The manager is not doing his job. It's his responsibility to provide the proper shopping environment for his customers, including the handicapped ones. He should call the police so these people get tickets. He will only have to do it once or twice, and then maybe again ievery six months or so. Word will spread!

Hmm. It just occurred to me that might not work since traffic laws might not apply on private property. Perhaps the inconsiderate creeps using the spaces are aware of this. Here in sunny California, you can ask to have your car park designated a thoroughfare or whatever, so that traffic laws are enforced. Most big car parks have little signs telling you they've done so. And big ones telling you the minimum fine for parking in the handicapped spaces is $270!

Alternately, a tannoy announcement that such and such a car is about to be towed away for parking in a handicapped space might do the trick!

[Zael]

perhaps places with car parking, like the supermarkets could employ the same method as Aberdeen Royal Infirmary use. The "totally unremovable sticker" that almost completely covers the side window. It carries a message of something like, You were found to be parked in a restricted zone, do not do this again or another sticker will be applied to another window. As far as I'm aware, you can pay for the sticker to be removed with a special solvent, or you can pick away at it for days. From experience, this was an excellent deterrent, I never would have believed how sticky a sticker could be until I was ordered by the boss to clean up my own mess and spend my time off removing it from the works van.

.::Zael::.

[George Brims]

Hehe. I had forgotten that tactic! When I was a student in Edinburgh the people at Pollock Halls used to whitewash your windows if you parked on the site without a permit. Back in those days I didn't have a car so it had slipped my mind. One bloke had a retired taxi and they kept doing it to him even though he had paid to park there.

[lynne duncan]

how about a softer approach before the more extreme method
make up a leaflet that advises them if they are caught using the disabled bays without displaying necessary permit, that their details ie number plate and car details and if possible the owners name would be displayed on a "name and shame" notice board in store - and if that doesn't work then go for the unremovable stickers.

[dragonfly]

its the same at Safeways in Thurso too. The disabled spaces outside the entrance are always occupied by able bodied drivers who don't have disabled stickers displayed. Just a sign that we are becoming a self centred nation

[Naefearjustbeer]

I went to the co-op carpark in thurso one day and opted to stay in the car whilst the wife nipped in and grabbed a few items. I was parked opposite the disabled bays and I was quite shocked at how many fit and able people drove in and parked and walked into the shop with no obvious problems, then you I saw and elderly gent who was obviously having trouble walking park futher along the row I was in. He took a while to get to the shop walking with 2 sticks. He didnt have a badge on his car. But when the wife came back I said to her about it and I went out and walked the line of cars and some of these fit able people who were parked in the disabled spots had the sticker in the window. So it shows you that some people who do display the badge are not really needing it yet some one who could of done with a shorter walk didnt have one. Maybe the old gent was to proud to admit or to ask for a badge or maybe he felt as long as he can walk he will do it. Or maybe he doesnt pulll the wool over the doctors eyes like some people can do!

[Loafer]

My mother has a disabled badge and it makes my blood boil when you see people parking in disabled spaces. I am for all of these ideas you have put down. Mind you, the name and shame did go through my head before, but people up here have no shame so I doubt it would work.

One day even my mother felt ashamed. She doesn't drive, but my father had parked in one of the bays and they proceeded to shop in the Co-op. When they came back there were no spaces left and a severely handicapped person was struggling out of their car, requiring two sticks. My mother felt humbled. Even she now doesn't use the spaces, leaving them for people she feels are more needy, but not for lazy articles, who I notice often have a tendancy to drive 4X4's and fancy sports cars.

Naefearjustbeer, it is not always visible if a person is disabled, they could easily have angina or the like, so don't assume that if someone appears fit that they are not disabled.

The whitewashed windows or un-removable stickers do it for me! :evil :evil :evil

The Loafer

[Naefearjustbeer]

Fair point ! I know not all disabillities are obvious to the eye. Maybe I should say that these people to me looked as if they had borrowed someone elses car (or sticker) just so they could get a easy parking spot.
I know of someone who is conning the system with a disabled badge and I would report him to the relevant authorities if I could be sure it would not cause a family fall out. It really makes my blood boil when I know people who are more deserving of a badge that have had them refused because they are honest with the Doctor. There is a huge difference between needs and wants with these things.
Some people will struggle on and others will go to the medical encyclopedia to find a complaint that will give them the desired result.

Cheers

Naefearjustbeer

[dpw39]

Why not have a word with the Manager's of the Stores in the county, to place several notices in the windows of the stores that anyone abusing the disable parking bays, the police will be informed, or even take their vehicle registration details. As always, disabilities are not just physical.

Ciao,

Dave the Rave :cool:

[©Amethyst]

Apparently Lidl in Thurso are getting them stickers sent up. It's a shame that it even had to come anywhere near close to that.

[JAWS]

Aren't the car parks at Lidls and Safeways in Thurso privately owned by the stores?

[©Amethyst]

I know that Lidl's car park is privately owned, I wouldn't know about Safeways as I don't know the manager in a personal capacity.

[Zael]

good to hear about the stickers Amethyst, with any luck it will catch on. Perhaps if they are coming from a non-lidls source the manager could make details of where he's getting them available to everyone, you could post the details on here :) Perhaps even the police up here could use them as it would not entail any paperwork and not take up much of their valuable time, park up lash a sticker on and drive off, 2 seconds :)

[JAWS]

I might be wrong but I don't think Police powers extend to Disabled Parking Bays on private car parks.

But if the threat is enough to do the trick then the stickers have served their purpose!

Of course, if somebody decided to push their luck it is very easy for the local police to remember the driver and wait until they do something, anything wrong and instead of giving them a good talking to themselves just let the person talk to the court instead.
After all, if they are stupid enough to commit the most serious offence of all, "Failing the Attitude Test", then they deserve everything they get. :evil :evil :lol:

[Zael]

I was thinking more of the police using the stickers for normal parking offences that they dont hand out tickets for now as they dont seem to have time. The sticker would be quick and require no paperwork on the part of the police.

[WS]

I totally agree that people should not be parking in disabled spaces just so they don't have to walk so far, the spaces are there for a reason.

Can I also please add that I am sick and tired of people parking in parent & child spaces. The Coop has 2 spaces at the door for parent & child parking which are extra wide to allow you to open the doors of the car to their full capacity to allow you to get your children in and out of their car seats.

Some weeks ago I was indicating to get into one of these spaces while another car was reversing out when all of a sudden these 2 gentlemen in a car pulled into the space right in front of me. As I had been driving round the car park for 10 mins previously I was rather annoyed with this, I opened my door and highlighted that one I had been indicating to use the space and two it was a parent and child space (I had my 2 children in the back fo the car). The drivers attitude was terrible but he did after some discussion move on. These spaces are well marked as are the disabled ones and I find it terrible that people feel that they can park in either of these spaces just to get closer to the door - both disabled and parent & child spaces are there for a reason!!

[squidge]

I have a friend who is disabled and when she cannot get a space in the disabled bay she parks in a parent and child bay

[John Traill]

I have a friend who is disabled and when she cannot get a space in the disabled bay she parks in a parent and child bay
:roll: They're as bad as the rest ;)
I'm not really sure what your point is here, squidge. I don't imagine many parents would grudge that. I think disabled and parent/child spaces are dual purpose in some places now - both close to the store and with extra space.

JT

[squidge]

I was just musing John. My friend doesnt "look" disabled she has Hepatitis C as a result of an infected blood transfusion and this has led to problems which mean she cant walk very far although having just been to Turkey for her hols she looks a picture of health .i was just sort of contemplating what someones reaction to seeing her park in a parent and child space would be.

I guess i wasnt really making a point but as you were looking for one i will take that as a compliment and assume that i usually do !!!

:D

[brokencross]

The real problem is that in supermarket car parks the disabled bays rely on the common courtesy of other shoppers, it is not actually a legal thing. It is a sad reflection on todays society where people blatantly ignore the needs of the diasabled just because they cannot be bothered to walk the length of themselves!

If I abuse the use of my "Disabled Blue Badge" I can be fined up to £2000. Lets see where these ignorant people park when they have to fork out that sort of money for being lazy sods.

I thank you!!

[gooner]

hi all,
the police don't do an awful lot (this I know from experience), the disabled parking up at the carpark at naver is generally blocked when there is football on. You would think that if folk are going up there to play football they would be kinda fit? So you would think that they would walk the lengths of themselves, instead they park in the disabled areas,( the yellow Jordan Honda is good at this), across both disabled bays on occasion, and also in the entrance to the car park - the other week there was parked a big C Steven joiners van stopping anyone coming in or leaving the carpark, let alone use the disabled bays, no one could even drive across the pavement to leave due to the fact that that had cars parked on it all the way along the street. I see a disabled lady walking along there, hard to maneuver round them all, like i said in another forum, I hope that these inconsiderate people may have the misfortune to have to genuinely use these areas sometime, and see how they get on then. I see Pat Grant regularly parked in the disabled area at Safeways/Morrisons too. On yersel Pat. ;)
Car parks, yeh, agree, I look to see if the cars parked in the disabled bays are displaying the disabled stickers, not that i drive, but I have a disabled brother and brother in law so I am aware of the inconsiderate, lazy, ignorant fools that do abuse the parking spaces, such as the big AJG parcel van which was parked, not only in the disabled bays, but over the pavement as well at Safeways/Morrisons tonight. Give me the stickers and I will gladly stick them on these idiots windows. Weigh Inn seem to have a problem with vans parking in the disabled bays as well, even though there is a huge space to the left of their site which people could park in. [evil] [mad]

[gooner]

Well, just back a walk from Pennyland area, and walking past Dale Rd, there I saw a hairy legged shorts wearing guy leave his car parked in the disabled bay there, even though the car park was practically empty. Nice one Mr Red Ford Mondeo, T39 AGJ. You astound me with your consideration and thoughtfulness. Not. :roll:

[gooner]

Was just over a wander to Safeways/Morrisons, as I had a pen on me, I thought i would be an anorak and note downt he non disabled badged cars parking in the disabled bays...silver Citroen R148 JGB and metallic greeny Peugeot 307 - SY04 XX2, regardless of there being quite a few parking spaces throughout the carpark.

[Fran]

[evil] It is wrong to judge if people are disabled or not by their appearance. Many people with disabled badges on their cars ARE disabled though they may not look it and are unable to walk far. They could have serious heart problems, be on kidney dialysis, have terminal cancer and yet look perfectly fit and healthy.
I do not think it is easy to abuse the blue car badge system. People have to be checked out thoroughly medically. The badges are not easy to come by, and I know of people who should have one but cannot get one.
I do object to the diabled persons partner driving the car without the disabled person in the car, this is illegal and I see it done often.
So dont judge a person as abusing the system because they have a disabled badge yet are young, look fit and healthy, that person coulkd be dying. :(

[gooner]

I agree with a lot you are saying and especially if the disabled badge is being abused but the person abusing this can be prosecuted. But then how do you differentiate because as you say the disablity may not be obvious so maybe they are entitled to use the disabled bays. The people I have seen looking young fit and healthy are up playing football, which is more than I could do and I AM able bodied. Not a sign that someone is dying if they can go up and kick a ball about a field for a good while??? And if they can do this, then surely parking in a regular parking spot would not be too much of an inconvenience. A lot of it is down to pure laziness though, I amn't arguing with the people who have a genuine need to use these bays, and if I seen anyone I recognised abusing this disabled badge, then I would have no hesitation in saying something about that either (and have done!). The point I am trying to make is the fact that there are a lot of drivers who DO abuse the disabled facilities - and if they are in such a poor health condition then they should have a disabled badge to display.Don't the people requiring the disabled badge need it signed off from the doctor? If they need a disabled badge but find it hard to get one then that is an issue they would have to take up with their doctor then. I know it is not all that easy to see if a person is disabled. Maybe by this being highlighted, you never know, maybe it will make some of the real culprits think twice before they go ahead and park because no one else seems to do anything about it.
So [evil] yersel. :D

[dragonfly]

I think the point that Gooner is trying to make is that perfectly able bodied persons are using disabled bays as a convenience instead of using the normal bays that are located further from the shop door.

From reading his/her messages, it appears that Gooner does not have a problem with those with obvious or unobvious disabilities, just a problem with those who are inconsiderate to those with a genuine need.

On yersel Gooner :D , as long as you are sure they are able bodied, I'd say keep naming and shaming!
;)

[Naefearjustbeer]

Keep on naming and shaming :) . But if they are abusing the disabled spaces they are probally not bothered about getting named on here..

Does anyone know what the actual rules are? My wife thinks that an able bodied person is allowed to use and drive a car displaying a badge if they are going to the shops (using the disabled parking spots) for the disabled person, even if the disabled person is not with them. Is this right?
I dont think it is but she says she has been reliably informed that it is. Even though she herself thinks it is morally wrong even if it is allowed.

[©Amethyst]

According to the Scottish Parliament website (http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/research/briefings-04/sb04-33.pdf)...

Disabled people can apply for parking permits under the Blue Badge Scheme. The responsibility for the Blue Badge Scheme is devolved and is operated by local authorities. It permits disabled people to park, for example, without paying on streets with parking meters, on some double yellow lines, and in spaces on the street marked for disabled people. Under Section 47 of the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984, it is an offence if a person parks in a designated disabled parking space, without a blue badge, and they will be liable to a fine of up to £1,000.

But...

Owners of private car parks can designate parking spaces for disabled people at their own discretion. However, owners may be held to account under the Part III of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (as amended).

Off-street car parks are private property and charges and conditions of use are a contractual matter between the owner and the motorist. In these car parks, spaces marked for disabled drivers only are in most cases not legally enforceable, but depend on the courtesy and providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 3 consideration of other drivers.

Car park operators could ask a non-disabled motorist to move their car from a space set aside for disabled people but they might not be in a position to insist upon it. Designated bays are provided in off-street car parks operated by local authorities under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. It is for the individual local authorities whether or not a parking charge is levied.

And...

If, for example, supermarkets do not monitor whether the service is accessible to disabled customers, not only by providing parking spaces but by ensuring they are not used by other able-bodied customers, then it is possible for a disabled person to make a claim against the supermarket under Part III of the DDA.

[girniegoe]

Well researched posting Amethyst! Touchy subject this as there always seems to be a bit of jealousy involved but I do know that now the blue badge scheme requires a photo of the disabled person on the back of the badge and the badge must be displayed on the windscreen and should not be lying on the dashboard. The use of the badge is only valid if the disabled person is actually in the car - he/she can be identified by the photo on the back of the badge.

All this is of course probably more relevant in bigger towns with traffic wardens/blue meanies etc but as far as I know there is no circumstance where someone with a blue badge is entitled to park on double yellow lines.

[©Amethyst]

Who mentioned double yellow lines? I think the double yellow lines should be observed by all, even the colourblind.

I didn't know, girniegoe, that blue badges should not be displayed on the dashboard.

Relevance in bigger towns shouldn't even be mentioned, the thing is, it's happening... here... there.... everywhere. Selfish people, not thinking of their actions.

I've been watching a fair bit o' TV lately :roll: Suggestions have been made that we are now a non-caring country as a whole. The whole disabled parking issue is another part of it.

[golach]

Amethyst,
you have hit the nail on the head!!!! We have become a non caring Nation, I see it every day in the big city.
The selfish attitude of most people I put down to the "Gimme Gimme" society that we now live in.
But I care so there is hope.

Golach

[gooner]

Someone with the badge can park on double lines, if again, the badge holder, ie, the registered disabled person, is present.
Incidentally, thank you to the kind driver of the Petrie Decorators van who used the disabled bay, even though there was a near enough empty car park last night, in order for them to go and play football up at Naver. You are right too though, naming and shaming probably won't make a difference to these ignorant individuals, but then, maybe they aren't very good at reading by the time they can't figure out the road signs either. :roll:

[girniegoe]

First of all re "yellow lines" Amethyst this is quoted from your post of 20 Oct
It permits disabled people to park, for example, without paying on streets with parking meters, on some double yellow lines, and in spaces on the street marked for disabled people so I wasn't trying to be awkward but have never heard of anyone being permitted to park on double yellow lines.- believe me I am in total agreement with your viewpoint.

Second re displaying blue badge, can assure you that while in Edinburgh we fell foul of a traffic warden for not having the badge stuck on the windscreen - it is required there so I would imagine that applies everywhere else - reason given is that it must be clearly visible from the pavement (by the traffic wardens?), also had to pay fine for parking on a single yellow line outwith permitted hours i.e. it was peak traffic time and have to admit that there was a notice further along street stating permitted times for disable parking!.

It is certainly a "man mind thyself" attitude that is prevalent nowadays in all matters - present company excepted of course!!
[/quote]

[JAWS]

Girniegoe, the answer to Edinburgh and other cities with similar attitudes is to translate the "Welcome to the City of Wherever" signs to read the correct message, "Your trade is not wanted here. Go away!".

I avoid them like the plague, they are nothing but an abuse of good land and need bulldozing into oblivion. They serve no useful purpose whatsoever other than to leave plenty of space for the rest of humanity to live civilised lives.