Simpson Oils

[Scarybiscuits03]

Phoned them today to order some oil to get me over the festive period to be told "that'll cost £***", a little confused I advised that I pay by Direct Debit and was then informed that they have decided to enforce a policy where if you do not have credit in your account to the amount of half the price you are ordering, then you have to pay it upfront (this has never been the way since I started paying DD 3 years ago)!!
NOT HAPPY - I didn't hear them complaining when I got in credit over the Summer and they are gaining the interest!!! This is not something you would like sprung on you at this time of year when you already have to fork out extra for xmas!
Well thats it from me - Well done Simpson Oils, you have successfully lost my business! I shall go elsewhere in future and pay as it arrives, at least I'll know where I stand![disgust]

[windness]

I will be surprised if you find somewhere that offers a better service than Simpsons but good luck.

[andyw]

Hi May be you need to upgrade your payments to cover costs,
(Well would you let me have half a tank of fuel and not pay for it for roughly 6 months I don`t think so some how)

[Scarybiscuits03]

Hi May be you need to upgrade your payments to cover costs,
(Well would you let me have half a tank of fuel and not pay for it for roughly 6 months I don`t think so some how)

Im never more than £50 behind so have never gone more than a month without being in credit, in fact I was in credit when I went to place the order!....... and with Invoicing you're given 30 - 60 days to pay so that's never been a prob....so they are making money from the interest they WERE gaining from my payments. Their loss really!

[fingalmacool]

So much for Xmas spirit, for my sins I cant be bothered with chopping and changing suppliers for anything, if they supply without hassle then that will do for me, I am with Scottish fuels and yes they probably charge a bit more but, i also do direct debit and yes i remember they asked once for me to square up at the end of their financial year, and i ignored them and they never asked again coz they know that the money comes in, bit cheeky by me maybe but usually i am well in credit, so tell Simps to stuff it and go else where:confused

[Fisherbigin]

Nothing wrong with Scottish Fuels,prices are swings and roundabouts

[fingalmacool]

Nothing wrong with Scottish Fuels,prices are swings and roundabouts



Indubitable:confused

[Scarybiscuits03]

My point being, I think it's atrocious that they have decided to enforce this so close to Xmas - it's basically a case of if you don't pay for it now then we won't deliver!
What about all those folk out there that rely on their DD payments and then phone for some oil to be told they ain't getting it as they haven't put enough money in their acct.......especially in this weather! Seems they are taking advantage of the situation!

[tiger woods]

Hi May be you need to upgrade your payments to cover costs,
(Well would you let me have half a tank of fuel and not pay for it for roughly 6 months I don`t think so some how)
Three years loyal custom and with Simpson's in possession of DD details should be enough warrant delivery and future discussion about increasing DD in future.
Don't be so 'bah humbug' unless you are Mr Simpson.

[Kirdon]

My point being, I think it's atrocious that they have decided to enforce this so close to Xmas - it's basically a case of if you don't pay for it now then we won't deliver!
What about all those folk out there that rely on their DD payments and then phone for some oil to be told they ain't getting it as they haven't put enough money in their acct.......especially in this weather! Seems they are taking advantage of the situation!

Maybe they are having problems getting money in "this close to xmas". Never had a problem with Simpsons in fact I cannot compliment them enough, nothing is ever to much hassle from crane lifts to buying a gallon of lub oil, and no I am not a relation nor do I work there and I have no direct association with the firm at all.

[bekisman]

Phoned them today to order some oil to get me over the festive period to be told "that'll cost £***", a little confused I advised that I pay by Direct Debit and was then informed that they have decided to enforce a policy where if you do not have credit in your account to the amount of half the price you are ordering, then you have to pay it upfront (this has never been the way since I started paying DD 3 years ago)!!
NOT HAPPY - I didn't hear them complaining when I got in credit over the Summer and they are gaining the interest!!! This is not something you would like sprung on you at this time of year when you already have to fork out extra for xmas!
Well thats it from me - Well done Simpson Oils, you have successfully lost my business! I shall go elsewhere in future and pay as it arrives, at least I'll know where I stand![disgust]

Bit confused by where you say: "was then informed that they have decided to enforce a policy where if you do not have credit in your account to the amount of half the price you are ordering, then you have to pay it upfront" So for example, if you rang up and ordered 500 litres, and say for arguments sake that was £250, and you only had £100 in credit in your account, they would not do it? do they expect you to pay an extra £75 (i.e. half the price) and then they will deliver?

I have a letter from them, dated 2008 "In order that accounts do not become unmanageable, any account with an outstanding balance in excess of £200 when re-ordering, will now be contacted to review their payments" - which seems fair enough to me.. You mention you did not receive notification of this policy, I too, that without even a letter my DD was increased by 66%!.. wonder what's going on?
PS thought Scottish Fuels had been taken over by Simpson's I see from Simpson's website: "our fuel depot in Scrabster" and that was Scottish Fuels location? :confused

[Scarybiscuits03]

Bit confused by where you say: "was then informed that they have decided to enforce a policy where if you do not have credit in your account to the amount of half the price you are ordering, then you have to pay it upfront" So for example, if you rang up and ordered 500 litres, and say for arguments sake that was £250, and you only had £100 in credit in your account, they would not do it? do they expect you to pay an extra £75 (i.e. half the price) and then they will deliver?

I have a letter from them, dated 2008 "In order that accounts do not become unmanageable, any account with an outstanding balance in excess of £200 when re-ordering, will now be contacted to review their payments" - which seems fair enough to me.. You mention you did not receive notification of this policy, I too, that without even a letter my DD was increased by 66%!.. wonder what's going on?
PS thought Scottish Fuels had been taken over by Simpson's I see from Simpson's website: "our fuel depot in Scrabster" and that was Scottish Fuels location? :confused


I was ordering 800 litres.......I had to pay £52 on the spot before they would deliver! This would make it up to half the amount I was ordering!... I was already more than £200 in credit ......

[Jeid]

I really don't see what you're moaning about. When I order coal, I've gotta pay for it there and then. Dry your eyes

[Scarybiscuits03]

I really don't see what you're moaning about. When I order coal, I've gotta pay for it there and then. Dry your eyes

My point is I pay more than enough by DD to cover it and end up in credit in the summer.......what about the people out there that dont have £200 to fork out right now due to them paying by DD - do they go without fuel for the next month or so because Simpsons are trying to scramble some money together?

[bekisman]

I really don't see what you're moaning about. When I order coal, I've gotta pay for it there and then. Dry your eyes

Do you order £250 worth of coal?

[LMS]

I quite agree that it isn't the best time of year to introduce a new regime, but I think people rely too heavily on the tick culture.

I go to Tesco or the Co-op every week and spend anywhere between £50 and £100 depending on my list. I have to shell out on the spot - no tick there. I decide to get my car serviced, it needs paid for on the spot. I had a horrendous bill this time last year; but again, no tick there. I fill up my car with fuel, Mr Esso wants paid on the spot - no tick there.

Simpson's provide an excellent service to the people of Caithness. Plenty people don't pay up for whatever reason and from what I have heard, offenders' accounts need to be pretty bad before the refuse to deliver. They introduced a DD scheme to help their cash flow and the customers' cash flow. Everyone is a winner. Accounts swing from debit to credit balances dependant on the seasons. For whatever reason, they have decided to ask for a minimum credit balance before delivery. Quite darned right - they are a business not a charity. If this is what they need to do so be it.

[Kevin Milkins]

I find that regardless of what type of heating you use, it only seems like good value for money when you need it, IE it's cold, you need to cook, or you need electricity for lighting, etc.

When you have used whatever your chosen fuel, it becomes intangible and paying for something you cannot see, touch, or run an appliance with seems like poor value for money unless you are refused more without payment for what you have used.

I know it seems like a bad shout on behalf of the supplier, but as already stated, this a company that offers a good service and and require paying for it.

[Geo]

I quite agree that it isn't the best time of year to introduce a new regime, but I think people rely too heavily on the tick culture.

I go to Tesco or the Co-op every week and spend anywhere between £50 and £100 depending on my list. I have to shell out on the spot - no tick there. I decide to get my car serviced, it needs paid for on the spot. I had a horrendous bill this time last year; but again, no tick there. I fill up my car with fuel, Mr Esso wants paid on the spot - no tick there.


You are comparing apples with oranges. Every oil supplier I have known lets you pay monthly because of the bulk nature of the product. If Simpsons have changed their policy on how accounts are handled they should really have let their customers know in advance.

My personal opinion of Simpsons when buying other products is they have always provided a friendly service so I'm sticking with them.

[bluechesse]

My point is I pay more than enough by DD to cover it and end up in credit in the summer.......what about the people out there that dont have £200 to fork out right now due to them paying by DD - do they go without fuel for the next month or so because Simpsons are trying to scramble some money together?
They go without fuel because they do not have enough money in their account to pay for it. Why do people expect something for nothing?

Im a DD customer with Simpsons, and its a DEBIT account, not a CREDIT account. You pay monthly to ensure that when it comes time to fill your tank you have accumulated sufficient funds to pay for it. It's absolutely no different from paying for the lot when you receive it, and if you wish to do this, cancel your DD and allow the funds to build up in your own account, if you have the discipline not to spend it on something else. Its all very well moaning about them gaining the interest, but the DD payment scheme is a service, and if you dont like it, dont use it. Why should they fill your tank with oil which they have paid for, only to have you put off payment till it suits you?
If you dont have enough in your account to pay for the oil you need, then your obviousley using more than your paying for. It's not complicated.

They are runing a business, not a charity. Go to Scottish Fuels, see how keen they are to give you oil on tick. Oh,but price them first. I do every time I fill up, and they are a;ways a few pence dearer.

Like many on here, I've always found their service to be excellent, did need more fuel than my account would cover once, but they let me know, so I payed the excess and increased my DD to ensure it didn't happen again.

Another example of a local business being run down simply for trying to make a profit.

[_Ju_]

I really don't see what you're moaning about. When I order coal, I've gotta pay for it there and then. Dry your eyes

And you order the 60 bags of coal you need to get through the winter in one delivery, I suppose?

[Scarybiscuits03]

Was just wanting to let people know so that they can be prepared.... That's never been the way they have worked in 3 years so I'm sure there are others out there that will be caught short.

[brandy]

in all fairness if they have been running a certain way for x amount of years.. when they change the way they do it.. then they really should notify customers before hand so they could be made aware and adjust to the new needs.

[Jeid]

And you order the 60 bags of coal you need to get through the winter in one delivery, I suppose?

Think some people are missing the point, if you get your electricity bill in quarterly, you're expected to pay it, same with any bill. No matter how much it costs. If Simpsons expect a certain amount up front, then that's fair enough.

[ducati]

In my opinion, Oil and Gas suppliers for on site tanks should be bound by the same rules as utilities. In raural areas, where there is no mains gas, fuel poverty can be a much bigger issue than where piped supplies are available. I have used both mains and tank gas and I know I was absolutely horrified by the cost of tanked.

So much so, that now, I would rather do without central heating than get a tank.

[squidge]

Yes people are missing the point. The point is that to change their terms to the detriment of the customer this close to Christmas with no warning is unfair and poor customer service. It could catch people out with having to find money they had not expected.

As for your electricity bill you can spread the cost of that too. Seems harsh of simpsons to refuse to deliver without a payment when someone is
showing £200 in credit and they order £300 of oil
when their next monthly payment will take them
back into credit. If the person pays a year round then they will be paying when they are not ordering oil.

Just seems like sharp business practices. And a bit mean to boot.

[orkneycadian]

And you order the 60 bags of coal you need to get through the winter in one delivery, I suppose?

If I burned coal in any quantity, I would. Not that I do as I burn peats. Years ago, you could buy Eday peat in Orkney in 1 tonne bags delivered. Probably a lot less hassle than lots of peedie bags.

No tick with that I guess either. Fuel companies are there to provide a fuel delivery service, not a credit service. I wouldn't really be expecting them to be providing a credit service at their cost.

Save the money in the bank/shoebox/under the mattress and pay them in full on time.....

[upolian]

Had you thought of asking simpsons oils about their policy on credit or did you just assume they wouldn't do this.....sounds like you were expecting no charge for a service you havn't read the terms on? Not having a go just weighing out the options.

Also would you have minded if this was in the summer,or is it just because it's close to christmas you have a problem with.

[NickInTheNorth]

Given that when you read Simpsons website it states :


Budget Payment Scheme –
Set up a direct debit and spread the costs of your fuel. Paying a smaller amount each month can avoid any lump sum payments. Your account will be reviewed every 6 months and we will give you plenty of notice if your payments are due to change. Download a direct debit
form here.

I for one think the OP is perfectly entitled to expect more notice to a change to the payments expected.

[Dialyser]

I would agree that this is not how I thought the monthly direct debit account worked. By the very nature of this payment option there will be times when you are either slightly in credit or slightly in debt.

What is required is a regular review of the account to check it is not going too far in either direction and for the monthly payments to be changed accordingly.

Therefore the only circumstance where I feel asking for an upfront payment to a monthly paying customer would be acceptable, is if Simpsons had tried to increase the montly payment and the customer had refused.

[bluechesse]

For the life of me I cant understand why anyone thinks they should get anything delivered to their door and not pay for it in full. This comapny advertise a debit scheme, that means you build up the money to pay for the goods PRIOR to getting them. They dont run a credit scheme, so why would you assume that you can have their goods on credit?

If they had a big sign outside saying "INTEREST FREE CREDIT GIVEN HERE" then you would be with in your rights to expect this. But they dont, do they?

What is being asked for here is precisely that, interest free credit.
You are buying goods, and a sevice. You dont expect to go to Tesco and get your shopping free, and this is no different, despite the bulk nature of the goods. Your even getting it delivered, and in this weather when the drivers have to risk their own safety to get it to you. Why do so many people expect something for nothing? And worse, then run down a local business when they dont get it?

I find posts like this childish. I really can not understand this attitude.

[onecalledk]

I used to have oil fired central heating and used Gleaner for my oil supplies when I lived in Inverness. A direct debit account was set up that had to be cleared by the end of April UNLESS fuel was delivered in March in which case it could be carried over to the next years direct debits.

Adjusting of the direct debit (either way, sometimes it went down) meant that I was credit when I moved house. I was in credit in the summer that covered the winter months which meant by April there was no outstanding amount to clear with them. If there was the direct debit was adjusted then.

I would have to agree with the OP that if you had a direct debit set up with them and had done for years I can see no reason why they would require upfront payment on top of the direct debit.

The first tank of fuel is always paid in full but any after that can be spread over the year. This is an option that is also available with electricity etc as well.

Why "spread the cost" if that is not what is occurring? It may well be convenient for some people to pay quarterly or per delivery but a lot of households just cannot afford this hence the direct debit option for people.

Giving little notice is unfair and I would query the legality of changing terms at the last minute if they state on their website that customers will be informed with notice. Telling you on the phone when you attempt to order is not IMHO notice enough ......

The problem may also be that perhaps they are one of the very few who deliver to caithness area. I had problems with another oil supplier when I lived in Inverness ,the person in their office was just plain rude and obnoxious so just changed supplier. Perhaps that is not such an option up here ?

K

[onecalledk]

For the life of me I cant understand why anyone thinks they should get anything delivered to their door and not pay for it in full. This comapny advertise a debit scheme, that means you build up the money to pay for the goods PRIOR to getting them. They dont run a credit scheme, so why would you assume that you can have their goods on credit?

If they had a big sign outside saying "INTEREST FREE CREDIT GIVEN HERE" then you would be with in your rights to expect this. But they dont, do they?

What is being asked for here is precisely that, interest free credit.
You are buying goods, and a sevice. You dont expect to go to Tesco and get your shopping free, and this is no different, despite the bulk nature of the goods. Your even getting it delivered, and in this weather when the drivers have to risk their own safety to get it to you. Why do so many people expect something for nothing? And worse, then run down a local business when they dont get it?

I find posts like this childish. I really can not understand this attitude.


It is not on credit, you pay for the first tank of fuel up front, whilst using this tank of fuel you begin to pay direct debits which mount up for the next tank of fuel being delivered.

Somehow the assumption is that they fill your tank and you pay at your leisure, THIS IS NOT HOW IT WORKS. That is why it is always full price for the original tank of fuel. The saving over the summer months is then used against deliveries in the winter months. The two should even out with summer being in credit for the winter.

This is about balancing the payments of fuel. For those who get on their high horses about people using direct debit give it up. Most families have to balance their money. Direct debit is not credit, direct debit is running up a total with the supplier which is then used against your fuel.

Most families these days I would imagine would struggle without this option. Its a disgrace that in the 21st century all these fuel companies actually makes MILLIONS in profit whilst there are people dying because they fear using too much fuel to heat their homes.

As for local business, yes I agree they have to survive but surely peoples LIVES come first or is that too much for some people.

I note that no one has published figures of how many people have died in this cold spell.... perhaps too scary to publish ....

K
(away for a cup of tea and a deep breath ....)

[_Ju_]

Think some people are missing the point, if you get your electricity bill in quarterly, you're expected to pay it, same with any bill. No matter how much it costs. If Simpsons expect a certain amount up front, then that's fair enough.

The person missing the point is the one that made a direct comparison between the way they buy their coal and the way oil is bought.
When you go to a supermarket and one set of terms is placed on a shelf for a product you want to aquire, and at the till the terms are not the same, it makes the potential client angry and can, under certain circumstances, be considered criminal (ie: not due to an error). While Simpsons is not expected to give their product away, they cannot expect to keep their clients happy when they unilaterally change their terms and conditions with no warning. Nor should they expect their clients to shut up and put up.

[orkneycadian]

I am sure anyone thats no happy with their oil delivery service could always go and acquire some drilling rights at Lybster and go find their own! ;)

[bekisman]

For the life of me I cant understand why anyone thinks they should get anything delivered to their door and not pay for it in full. This comapny advertise a debit scheme, that means you build up the money to pay for the goods PRIOR to getting them. They dont run a credit scheme, so why would you assume that you can have their goods on credit?

If they had a big sign outside saying "INTEREST FREE CREDIT GIVEN HERE" then you would be with in your rights to expect this. But they dont, do they?

What is being asked for here is precisely that, interest free credit.
You are buying goods, and a sevice. You dont expect to go to Tesco and get your shopping free, and this is no different, despite the bulk nature of the goods. Your even getting it delivered, and in this weather when the drivers have to risk their own safety to get it to you. Why do so many people expect something for nothing? And worse, then run down a local business when they dont get it?

I find posts like this childish. I really can not understand this attitude.

Simpson's is NOT a bank where you pay into a 'savings' account, and then, when you've 'saved' the complete price for a tank of fuel, they will deliver - what on earth would be the point in setting up a DD. There's no point, what for? better to set up a DD into your own Banks savings account instead of 'Simpson's Bank' ..

Basically a DD with an oil company, is that they deliver oil - and as it's to go into a big tank which normally holds 1,000 litres, the company was quite happy for the customer to pay an initial 50% of the cost of their first filling and to get a monthly payment which covers what you still owe and the next 50% of the next delivery - this usually means that by the time you need another filling, you have built up 50% of the cost.

Earlier I pointed out:I have a letter from Simpson's, dated 2008 "In order that accounts do not become unmanageable, any account with an outstanding balance in excess of £200 when re-ordering, will now be contacted to review their payments" This means that if there is still £200 owing at the point when another refill is needed, then obviously the DD must be increased. Although we have been with them since 2003, it had never been an issue that we had been in debit..

It looks like this might have been amended.

[bluechesse]

Basically a DD with an oil company, is that they deliver oil - and as it's to go into a big tank which normally holds 1,000 litres, the company was quite happy for the customer to pay an initial 50% of the cost of their first filling and to get a monthly payment which covers what you still owe and the next 50% of the next delivery - this usually means that by the time you need another filling, you have built up 50% of the cost.



And here lies the problem.

A CREDIT account means you can take now, pay later.
A DEBIT account means you pay for it first, then get the goods.

The key is in the title DEBIT account.

[Scarybiscuits03]

Simpsons have since been in touch and are looking into what has happened, so perhaps it was just a misunderstanding by someone in their office.