View Full Version : why are schools closing?
dragonfly
07-Dec-10, 08:30
thank goodness mine have left school now - what if this cold snap goes on until February? are they going to stay shut until then?
I can see the dangers for kids from the country making their way to and from school but not the town kids, more so the high school ones, they do have feet and are capable of watching where they walk so as not to fall on slippy bits. They walk up and down the street with no coats on so are impervious to the cold
thats been a week now of no/disrupted school, if I as a parent were to have taken mine out of school for that long for a holiday I would be getting my wrists severely slapped and made to listen to how important it is for them to be in school during term time and how much they have missed by not being there.
What a nightmare for working parents!
thank goodness mine have left school now - what if this cold snap goes on until February? are they going to stay shut until then?
I can see the dangers for kids from the country making their way to and from school but not the town kids, more so the high school ones, they do have feet and are capable of watching where they walk so as not to fall on slippy bits. They walk up and down the street with no coats on so are impervious to the cold
thats been a week now of no/disrupted school, if I as a parent were to have taken mine out of school for that long for a holiday I would be getting my wrists severely slapped and made to listen to how important it is for them to be in school during term time and how much they have missed by not being there.
What a nightmare for working parents!Could not said it better myself fair enough the country people but i do think the town kids should be at school gives the teachers another day of plus pay i cant get to work as i work out in the country but i dont expect to get paid if im not their.
annemarie482
07-Dec-10, 08:57
they should move the summer holidays to the winter....
problem solved ;) lol
thank goodness mine have left school now - what if this cold snap goes on until February? are they going to stay shut until then?
I can see the dangers for kids from the country making their way to and from school but not the town kids, more so the high school ones, they do have feet and are capable of watching where they walk so as not to fall on slippy bits. They walk up and down the street with no coats on so are impervious to the cold
thats been a week now of no/disrupted school, if I as a parent were to have taken mine out of school for that long for a holiday I would be getting my wrists severely slapped and made to listen to how important it is for them to be in school during term time and how much they have missed by not being there.
What a nightmare for working parents!
I fully agree. It would have to be really bad before the town pupils would get stranded in the school! I know they have some teachers that live outside the town but I am sure they could manage with the town teachers and classroom assistants.
If this goes on for 3 months the kids are going to miss loads of school. When my daughter was sent home yesterday she didn't get any homework to take with her. I know the teachers were phoning all the parents re the school closing but I think they should have got the classroom assistant to organise the homework incase they are closed for a few days.
Cinders392
07-Dec-10, 09:08
they should move the summer holidays to the winter....
problem solved ;) lol
LOL:lol:
Good idea! Although we did have snow well into the year this year.
spaceddaisy
07-Dec-10, 09:19
Schools close because the headteacher has assessed the situation and deemed it too unsafe for staff and pupils.
I have friends in the central belt, they were stuck yesterday and their children spent the night in the school, had the schools been sensible enough to close earlier it wouldn't have happened.
FieryFairy
07-Dec-10, 09:23
thank goodness mine have left school now - what if this cold snap goes on until February? are they going to stay shut until then?
I can see the dangers for kids from the country making their way to and from school but not the town kids, more so the high school ones, they do have feet and are capable of watching where they walk so as not to fall on slippy bits. They walk up and down the street with no coats on so are impervious to the cold
thats been a week now of no/disrupted school, if I as a parent were to have taken mine out of school for that long for a holiday I would be getting my wrists severely slapped and made to listen to how important it is for them to be in school during term time and how much they have missed by not being there.
What a nightmare for working parents!
Agree! When I lived in the states, we had to make up all the 'snow days' at the start of the summer break. I can't remember having that many! Amazing how the roads are so bad to get to school, but hubby (and lots of others!) has to make an hour journey into work using many of the same roads which are unsuitable for getting into school!
Need to get onto the coffee now before this rant goes further! ;)
Schools close because the headteacher has assessed the situation and deemed it too unsafe for staff and pupils.
I have friends in the central belt, they were stuck yesterday and their children spent the night in the school, had the schools been sensible enough to close earlier it wouldn't have happened.
I agree saftey has to come first, i would rather my kids were safe and at home as thier saftey is a priority over everything else.
Teachers cant win, if they open they are in the wrong and if they close they are in the wrong!!
Common sense has to be used. At the 1st snowflake it's panic stations, we can't keep grinding to a halt. Schools in Canada manage to keep going at -30, life doesn't stop because of snow.
One persons to much, is anothers not much, it all depends on on the individual. If the weather is bad maybe schools should either open 10 till 2 for those who can travel safely, or open as normal but no school transport. But to be closed for days on end!!!!
The schools have a hard job deciding what to do but for the most part they have to rely on somebody else giving them advise, possibly someone sitting in an office down south who has been given info 2nd hand from somebody else. :roll:
I agree saftey has to come first, i would rather my kids were safe and at home as thier saftey is a priority over everything else.
Teachers cant win, if they open they are in the wrong and if they close they are in the wrong!!
Here here...well said.
SunnyChick
07-Dec-10, 09:46
Safety is paramount, so I can see why the schools/bus companies do not want to be responsible for the transportation of kids in poor weather/road conditions.
However, with the disruption to her education going on this long, I think we should all be exploring the option of online/home learning on occasions such as these. As it's just not feasible for everything to stop EVERYTIME the heavens open! The kids are always happy for the first day or two of snowday fun, but after that, they lack motivation and start acting up. A few home projects sent by email from the school, would be a good way to use the time effectively.
I saw on the news that some schools are doing this already where teachers are setting up web links to instructional videos, etc, setting homework. Brilliant idea me thinks! :D
My son has a disability and gets transport to and from the school and I'd rather he stay home as our road that leads to our house is very dangerous (and it is in town), we got told by the school we are in for bad weather so I agree with them shutting it.
I feel sorry for the school it seems they are damned if they close damned if they dont.There are posts on here criticising them for opening criticising them for closing asking what about this and what about that :roll: times have changed when I was at school we went out in rain hail or shine and your parents most of the time didnt care where you were so long as you werent under there feet whinning. Now the safety of the children is first and foremost not whether its convenient or not to have the school open. Yes its a pain yes its disruptive but these decsions I feel are not taken lightly nor is it for an extra days for the teachers they also have to catch up when back also the bus companies have a say in this decision.Keeping the school open for town kids is an option but it would I think throw up a whole lot more issues like staffing some kids getting taught and others not meaning a lot of catching up and the teacher having to split there time with pupils catching up and those who are further on it is such a no win situation.And before the punctuation police come out I am sadly one of those kids who didnt get much schooling and could barely read or right before leaving school young to go to work as we did then.
My son has a disability and gets transport to and from the school and I'd rather he stay home as our road that leads to our house is very dangerous (and it is in town), we got told by the school we are in for bad weather so I agree with them shutting it.
I can understand that it may not be safe for people having to use transport to get to school but the majority of the town pupils and staff can walk to school!
orkneycadian
07-Dec-10, 10:01
Schools close because the headteacher has assessed the situation and deemed it too unsafe for staff and pupils.
What a load of bruck....
Kids get exposed to more snow when making snowmen, throwing snowballs, sledging or whatever. Not to mention parents who'll traill them all the way to France / Switzerland / Austria in the winter to hurl themselves down a mountain with 2 bits of 4" x 1" strapped to their feet!
Health and Safety my bottom
Green_not_greed
07-Dec-10, 10:02
Could not said it better myself fair enough the country people but i do think the town kids should be at school gives the teachers another day of plus pay i cant get to work as i work out in the country but i dont expect to get paid if im not their.
I completely agree there Doreen. I also work in the private sector and if we don't get to work then we have to take a day's holiday or unpaid time off. Its about time that schools - and the rest of local government - did the same. I'm sure that if a management team for the school had to make a decision whether to close or not - and their salaries depended on it, then there would be far more schools open.
It would then be up to parents to make the decision on how safe it is for the kids to get to school.
Yes, children and staff who live in the town can walk to school. I have seen cars sliding on to the pavements in this weather - an accident doesn't bear thinking about. I also know of some parents who phone the school to complain if their child is out at playtime and a shower comes on and they get wet yet they want the schools open in the snow. As a working parent myself I know how annoying it is but the schools can't win and conditions can change very quickly.
Common sense has to be used. At the 1st snowflake it's panic stations, we can't keep grinding to a halt. Schools in Canada manage to keep going at -30, life doesn't stop because of snow.
In Canada (and Norway, finland, Iceland, etc), they are equipped to deal with the weather they systematically have. We are not equipped to deal with this weather, because we do not usually have it. You cannot throw incredible ammounts of money at a situation that happens once in a while.
Teachers and heads are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If something goes horribly wrong when a decision to shut should have been made, they will be slaughtered. If nothing goes wrong then there was no reason to be so cautious. Looking out the window now, it is almost white out conditions. I would say good call shutting the schools.
I'm sure that if a management team for the school had to make a decision whether to close or not - and their salaries depended on it, then there would be far more schools open.
and what putting children in possible danger for the sake of someones paypacket
I am not saying these decisions are perfect but they are trying to make thebest of a bad situation.Its a sad fact that this county does not seem to be prepared for these conditions.We do not have the transport providers nor gritters and so on to cope with these conditions.Many years ago I worked for Caithness County Council and there were far more gritters and Lorries back then.[disgust]
and what putting children in possible danger for the sake of someones paypacket
I am not saying these decisions are perfect but they are trying to make thebest of a bad situation.Its a sad fact that this county does not seem to be prepared for these conditions.We do not have the transport providers nor gritters and so on to cope with these conditions.Many years ago I worked for Caithness County Council and there were far more gritters and Lorries back then.[disgust]
seems like quite a few would put thier children at risk over thier paypacket[disgust]
And i remember when there were far more gritters and ploughs about.
a lot of times the staff live outside the towns.. and even though the kids can walk to school, if there is not enough staff to cover child-teacher ratios theres not much that can be done. Sam walks to school so its not a big deal for him,
however ben takes a taxi.. and that is a big deal.
there has been a few times where he is the only child in his class to attend school as all the other kids are out of town.
i have kids in two dif. schools at primary age. its hard to work in the mornings like this as ive got to find out what both schools are doing, and then get the kids ready for that.
and let me tell you.. telling one that hes going and the other he isnt.. is not fun!!
i kept Ben off yesterday as sam didnt have school but Ben did.
i found it better for everyone to just keep Ben home as well.
so, the plans for today? bundle everyone up and go play in the snow till we are freezing.. come in to cozys and hot choc. and then let them crash!!
I would imagine that the closure of the schools due to adverse weather is covered in the school operational risk assessment. If you saw the weekend news with the parents and pupils from an Edinburgh school out clearing snow from the playground to make it safe, one of the parents indicated that this was to allow emergency vehicles into the playground. Again this would be in the schools operational risk assessment, if the playground is not accessible to emergency vehicles the school must be closed. The thing with risk assessments, I’ve seen them in industry where people say ‘why is that in there that will never happen’ is it has to show that all possible risks are covered. If a child fell and sustained an injury that was deemed to be a medical emergency and the emergency vehicles were delayed due to blocked access, is this an acceptable risk to run with and open the schools. At the end of the day it is the head teachers responsibility to ensure an operational risk assessment is in place and to ensure that it is adhered to. It’s easy for anyone else to say a school should open or remain closed when the final responsibility of safety and the litigation that comes with it does not rest with them.
As for the Canadian question ‘they have worst winters than us, how do they keep operating when we can’t?’ just doesn’t wash. Canada knows they get severe winters and are prepared for them; massive amounts of money are spent to ensure the country keeps moving during the winter as the risk is there. Is it justifiable for the Highland Council to spend money they don’t have on machinery to keep the roads open; snow blowers, extra griters and snow ploughs? and these would have to be purchased for every area, when the winters are not normally like what we are getting now.
I completely agree there Doreen. I also work in the private sector and if we don't get to work then we have to take a day's holiday or unpaid time off. Its about time that schools - and the rest of local government - did the same. I'm sure that if a management team for the school had to make a decision whether to close or not - and their salaries depended on it, then there would be far more schools open.
You have a good point only being paid for work done. However if does work both ways. If you are going to look at pay that way teachers should start being paid for all the extras they do: no more school clubs, residential trips, fairs etc which they run as volunteers. They should start working to rule unless they start getting paid overtime for those activities. If you think the government spends a lot on education now they would be bankrupt without those free hours given every week.
You have a good point only being paid for work done. However if does work both ways. If you are going to look at pay that way teachers should start being paid for all the extras they do: no more school clubs, residential trips, fairs etc which they run as volunteers. They should start working to rule unless they start getting paid overtime for those activities. If you think the government spends a lot on education now they would be bankrupt without those free hours given every week.Well im sorry to disagree but as being a carer its not all about money i enjoy my job as a carer and will do and give any help that is needed its the most rewarding job ever and even being appreciated for doing what ido means more to me than anything and how bad it feels not getting to my work because of this weather if i dont get to work i dont expect to get paid.:(
orkneycadian
07-Dec-10, 12:23
I would imagine that the closure of the schools due to adverse weather is covered in the school operational risk assessment.
To be worthwhile, any risk assessment needs to have an accurate assessment of the risks. (:roll:)
If in years past, kids were being maimed, injured and killed with monotonous regularity by attempting to get to school in the snow, then to decide the school should be closed when snow comes now would be a proportionate response. To close the schools when a snowflake appears (or in some cases, merely expected to appear) is not a proportionate response.
I am sure this org is full of adults (and older! ;)) who went to school in the snow when they were young and never any harm came to them. Risk assessments in 2010 should take into account experience gained from 1940 onwards!
If a risk assessment shows that it is too dangerous to walk to school in 2 / 6 / 10" of snow, how on earth can conscientous parents sanction any of the following;
Throwing lumps of compacted snow and ice at children who are not wearing appropriate PPE (i.e. full face visors, body armour, hard hats with chin straps, etc)
Placing children on pieces of polished plastic at the top of a steep snow covered incline, and allowing them to accelerate in a mainly uncontrolled manner down it, at the mercy of gravity
The building of structures from snow and ice, without any design input from a structural engineer, then allowing their children to enter said structures at great risk to their personal wellbeing should said structures collapse
Exposure of their children to sub zero temperatures for no reason other than to pursue the manufacture of facsimilies of humans beings (albeit rather rotund ones) from snow, twigs, lumps of coal (or £1 coins if you are a numpty down south....) and a cast off scarf.
Honestly, if everything else were to get risk assessed to the same extent as walking to school, everything would be banned!
I'll wager there are a lot more tears and cold, wet kids arising from the activities they get up to when school is cancelled, than there are from getting to and from school! ;)
To be worthwhile, any risk assessment needs to have an accurate assessment of the risks. (:roll:)
If in years past, kids were being maimed, injured and killed with monotonous regularity by attempting to get to school in the snow, then to decide the school should be closed when snow comes now would be a proportionate response. To close the schools when a snowflake appears (or in some cases, merely expected to appear) is not a proportionate response.
I am sure this org is full of adults (and older! ;)) who went to school in the snow when they were young and never any harm came to them. Risk assessments in 2010 should take into account experience gained from 1940 onwards!
If a risk assessment shows that it is too dangerous to walk to school in 2 / 6 / 10" of snow, how on earth can conscientous parents sanction any of the following;
Throwing lumps of compacted snow and ice at children who are not wearing appropriate PPE (i.e. full face visors, body armour, hard hats with chin straps, etc)
Placing children on pieces of polished plastic at the top of a steep snow covered incline, and allowing them to accelerate in a mainly uncontrolled manner down it, at the mercy of gravity
The building of structures from snow and ice, without any design input from a structural engineer, then allowing their children to enter said structures at great risk to their personal wellbeing should said structures collapse
Exposure of their children to sub zero temperatures for no reason other than to pursue the manufacture of facsimilies of humans beings (albeit rather rotund ones) from snow, twigs, lumps of coal (or £1 coins if you are a numpty down south....) and a cast off scarf.
Honestly, if everything else were to get risk assessed to the same extent as walking to school, everything would be banned!
I'll wager there are a lot more tears and cold, wet kids arising from the activities they get up to when school is cancelled, than there are from getting to and from school! ;)
The difference is back then if you fell and banged your head or broke an arm you were taken to the hospital and your parents told you to be more careful. Unfortunately we now live in an age where if a child falls at school and injures themselves the first thing some parents think of is how much to sue the school for.
It's a lose-lose situation for the schools and I do understand why they have to be closed.
What i think is much more dangerous on foot and on wheels is the cold hard ice. Now when that arrives will the schools be closing. Will they y! The kids will be expected to go to school. Ice is when i'd personally keep my son of from school when he goes. It's dangerous stuff.
This time last year i was working in a private nursery in ness and it did not close for the snow. It stayed open even when the kids coming were few and far behind at times. All the parents are working parents and relied on us being open. All staff if they could make it were expected to. Any that couldn't for days lost pay and had to make it up elsewhere as you'd expect.
Scarybiscuits03
07-Dec-10, 14:18
Well looking at the snow that has been falling for the last 2 hrs I'd say that the schools did the right thing!! Well Done for thinking ahead!;)
Well im sorry to disagree but as being a carer its not all about money i enjoy my job as a carer and will do and give any help that is needed its the most rewarding job ever and even being appreciated for doing what ido means more to me than anything and how bad it feels not getting to my work because of this weather if i dont get to work i dont expect to get paid.:(
But do you also expect to go to work and not be paid? My point I was responding to was a comment about the private sector. I am sure every teacher would love to be paid the overtime they are due and miss out on a few working (or not) snow days.
But do you also expect to go to work and not be paid? My point I was responding to was a comment about the private sector. I am sure every teacher would love to be paid the overtime they are due and miss out on a few working (or not) snow days.We all have to work to earn a living my point is if i dont go to work well why should i get paid i would never want paying for:eek: the job i do if i cant get there to do it
lindsaymcc
07-Dec-10, 16:45
Having been ranting yesterday about the schools closing left right and centre, Im actually pleased school didnt open today. I didnt think that at 8am this morning, but as it has been snowing pretty much constantly since 11am, the kids are better off at home - even if they have been climbing the walls!
(One cute moment - 3yr old son fell asleep in the sledge on the way to Frasers!)
celtic lass
07-Dec-10, 20:38
i feel that its all health and safety now a days isnt it.When i was younger(long time ago) the local primary school didnt close unless it was a power cut,but its now a diffrent world we live in.Yes i agree that the teachers that can get to work should be in at work ,that also goes for pupils that live in the town as the jaintors , cleaners ,etc have to go into work wheither the school is open or shut and well the school isnt a babysitting service for working parents either aqs its up to working parents to orgainse child care (RANT OVER)
Town pupils easily walk to school.
Buses fairly easily carry the country pupils to school. After all, the same buses have already travelled the same roads with Dounreay workers before 8am.
Couldn't be the teachers having a duvet day, could it?
changilass
07-Dec-10, 22:03
They can't win, folks complaining schools are closing for no reason and then you have parents in the central belt asking why they didn't close and their kids had to stay the night in schools.
To be honest I don't care what the school says, if I don't think its a good idea for mini changi to go to school, he will stay home.
If he has to stay home cos the school says so, then so be it, we have the materials here so his education will not suffer and he will at least be nice and cosy.
I for one wouldnt like to be a bus driver responsible to transport kids on some of the roads just now, imagine what would be said if an accident did occur, they cant win either way!!
orkneycadian
08-Dec-10, 12:15
Had to laugh at the bit on Radio Orkney this morning that said that savvy schoolkids are filling up things like the Radio Orkney Facebook page with "reports" of "horrendous road conditions" in an attempt to paint a bleaker picture, and have the schools closed!
redeyedtreefrog
08-Dec-10, 22:57
It's true that town pupils can walk to school, albeit with numb faces and soaking feet, but if the school's shut to country pupils then there's not enough pupils in the class to do actual work so we sit and watch DVDs. If we did something productive, then the lesson would have to be repeated for those who missed it.
Down south a young girl was hit and her hand crushed by a bus after the bus lost control on black ice while on a school bus run.
orkneycadian
10-Dec-10, 20:27
Oh well, that'll be School cancelled anyday there is a risk of black ice, as well as snow! ;)
Might as well just shut them from September to April!
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