Scabs

[ducati]

I hope no, good, salt of the earth, Socialist, working people will be attending (or watching on the telly) the matches this weekend presided over by the imported SCAB officials. :mad:

[mrlennie]

What's this to do with Ducati?

[John Little]

I don't think he likes football.

[cherokee]

I just love to pick mine........

OOPS Sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick there !!:eek::eek::lol:

[Anfield]

Cross a picket line? I would not even cross my living room floor to turn TV on to watch a "typical" SPL match.

[Stack Rock]

Cross a picket line? I would not even cross my living room floor to turn TV on to watch a "typical" SPL match.

Shocking comment
You obvoiously watch Spanish or Italian f/ball

[overthewallandfaraway]

Cross a picket line? I would not even cross my living room floor to turn TV on to watch a "typical" SPL match.


yes cos you'd much rather watch the red bin-dippers in the "Best League in the World" aye right!!

[ducati]

Oh dear C3's been Arrgh eergh mfffgh :eek:

[Corrie 3]

Oh dear C3's been Arrgh eergh mfffgh :eek:
Its Ok Ducati. I am still here (just).....Never mind, at least your PC screen got a wash and thats all that matters.....
I am now suffering from a stroke or is that an infraction?..... I hope they dont have to take me to Raigmore in all this snow...I blame these Eastern European Refs, its all their fault!!!

C3....;)

[theone]

I haven't been in "the union" since seeing a union rep turn up at my work in his 7 series BMW, going straight into a meeting with the company men then providing nothing to the workers who paid his wages.

But I wouldn't cross a picket line.

[Geo]

What's this to do with Ducati?

The referees in the SPL are on strike this weekend.

[Mystical Potato Head]

I hope no, good, salt of the earth, Socialist, working people will be attending (or watching on the telly) the matches this weekend presided over by the imported SCAB officials. :mad:

Yep,i sure am.A bit of free corporate entertainment means i dont care who refs and as for socialist ideals,well that will be on my mind all through the match.
All refs are equally bad only some are more equally bad than others....comrade

[squidge]

Let's see.... Someone in their job makes a decision, changes their mind then lies to a stakeholder and to their employer and in a written report about the incident and then gets found out; a senior figure in the same organisation forwards a potentially offensive email in an environment where the efforts are going into reducing divisions; the same figure allegedly says to his boss that if the disciplinary action over the email is dropped he will call off the strike planned to complain that the integrity of their profession is under question.

Integrity? I'm only surprised they can spell it.

Are they surprised it's being questioned?

I also read that the referees recently took a test on refereeing and out of 31 refs only 5 passed. 5!!!!!! These are top level referees who should be at the top of their game. And yet only 5 out of 31 pass a professional competency test. You have to wonder....

[theone]

I understand your point sqiuidge, and if the ref's are deemed incompetent then they should lose their jobs.

But the fact is they have passed their exams and reached the appropriate level. Yes, they are prone to human mistakes, but should they be persecuted so much for making them? Watching th highlights from last weeks SPL makes me think there were far more mistakes made by footballers than the officials!

Maybe if football adopted a similar system as rugby the ref's would have an easier time. But that will never happen.

[Hobbit]

I thought that everyone knew that refs can't make decisions [lol] They've been making wrong calls for years but still get paid well for it.

[squidge]

I know they have passed exams and there is such a thing as CPD so they should be given the chance to resit tests and I understand that this has been done. I do not envy them and getting death threats is no laughing matter ... It's appalling.

However to lie publicly in a professional capacity shows both a lack of integrity and an element of stupidity; in addition Hugh Dallas was either very stupid, naive or did not care enough about the efforts to minimise sectarianism. Then to suggest to your boss that you can hold an organisation to ransom to get yourself off the hook is shocking behaviour. It actually demonstrates a lack of integrity .... If of course it is true that this happened. See if you or I did that with our employers we would be walking... Out the door.

[theone]

I agree, what they have to deal with in terms of intimidation and threats is appauling, I don't envy them one bit.

And yes, the ref in question made a major blooper to say the least. He shouldn't have lied, but maybe he just realised he'd made an initial error then thought a "white lie" about how he came to that decision wouldn't be a problem. Big mistake. But at the end of the day, why should he have to answer to a manager? He should only answer to his employers in my opinion.

He should stand down/be sacked.

But as for the rest of the refs, I understand why they're striking.

As for the Hugh Dallas email, I don't agree. I got that email, and I forwarded it on in the humour it was intended. I have nothing against any Catholics and I'm not a Protestant, therefore I cannot be sectarian in this case. I forwarded similar emails regarding Michael Jackson and Gary Glitter. It's strange how they don't cause so much outrage.

[squidge]

A manager is a stakeholder in a way. Whilst a ref does not have to answer to a manager he should not be lying to one either.

I too got that email and i was not offended either. However, I did not get it or forward it in a professional capacity. Nor do I work in an environment where the eradication of sectarianism is a massive priority. Hugh Dallas forwarded that email from his SFA account. If this was left unchallenged it could imply that the SFA tolerates sectarian opinions and is simply paying lip service to the challenges associated with eradicating it. He should have known better.

[Bazeye]

Cross a picket line? I would not even cross my living room floor to turn TV on to watch a "typical" SPL match.

You dont have to watch it on your PC.

[Bazeye]

I haven't been in "the union" since seeing a union rep turn up at my work in his 7 series BMW, going straight into a meeting with the company men then providing nothing to the workers who paid his wages.

But I wouldn't cross a picket line.

I'm in the union but do not pay any political levy to the labour party.

[theone]

Yes, a manager is a stakeholder. But so are the paying fans and they are not entitled to question any referees decision and expect an answer.

Yip, Dallas made a mess of things by emailing it on. But at the end of the day I think you've hit the nail regarding "sectarianism" and it's eradication.

I don't think the email was a sectarian issue. Yes, it was a parody of the pope/catholic church, but I don't see a problem with that. We're in a free country where people can make fun of these things. It's no different to "Have I got news for you" on the BBC.

I wonder how many of the thousands "offended" by that email were in Church at 12.15am at the time of the last old firm match?

There are SOCIAL issues in Scotland that are getting too much exposure because they are classified as religious or sectarian issues, when, at the end of the day, method of worship has nothing to do with it.

[Aaldtimer]

Theone..."We're in a free country where people can make fun of these things. "...we can make fun of Child Abuse?:confused

That's a sorry state of affairs!:eek:

[Mystical Potato Head]

Theone..."We're in a free country where people can make fun of these things. "...we can make fun of Child Abuse?:confused

That's a sorry state of affairs!:eek:

I think its the abusers, not the abused that the "jokes" are aimed at.

[squidge]

The managers and fans may not be entitled to an explanation but if the referee chooses to give an explanation he should not lie about it. To then go on and lie in his match report and to his employers. Lying ALWAYS raises questions about the integrity of an individual. To see that unchallenged raises questions about the integrity of the organisation that individual works for.

I agree with your comments on sectarianism and the email too. There was nothing you don't see on have I got news for you. Imagine however that someone who was in charge of a womens aid shelter forwarded from their work email an email that denigrated women, imagine if the chief constable of a police force covering a very ethnically diverse area sent an email from his police account denigrating muslims, or a disabled rights worker sent one from his official account which called people with disabilities 'retards' or 'spaz'. Hugh Dallas is head of an organisation which is part of the SFA which is working hard to remove sectarianism from football and he forwards on from his official email a message that denigrates the pope. He should be disciplined for that. No question. Not because the email was so vile it offended every decent person because it wasn't and it didn't. But because he used his employers email to pass on items that were completely at odds with his employers priorities and by using his work email implied that this was his PROFESSIONAL view and brings into question whether his employers are serious in their intent and the integrity of the whole organisation. Then to try to use the strike to wriggle out of the whole thing is just shocking.

See if I was a referee I would be angry too, with Hugh Dallas who clearly thinks I am his personal army and the guy that stupidly lied and kicked off this whole thing.

[tonkatojo]

I hope no, good, salt of the earth, Socialist, working people will be attending (or watching on the telly) the matches this weekend presided over by the imported SCAB officials. :mad:

Well thats ed the spl as the polish refs will not be available as they are required on Saturday in Poland to (guess what) referee.
I guess the working class socialists will have to attend the pub instead.:eek:
I wonder if that will be including that obvious socialist royal that attended the Blackpool match last week, put put man ??.

[theone]

Theone..."We're in a free country where people can make fun of these things. "...we can make fun of Child Abuse?:confused

That's a sorry state of affairs!:eek:

The joke was on the pope, not the victims,

[rob murray]

I agree, what they have to deal with in terms of intimidation and threats is appauling, I don't envy them one bit.

And yes, the ref in question made a major blooper to say the least. He shouldn't have lied, but maybe he just realised he'd made an initial error then thought a "white lie" about how he came to that decision wouldn't be a problem. Big mistake. But at the end of the day, why should he have to answer to a manager? He should only answer to his employers in my opinion.

He should stand down/be sacked.

But as for the rest of the refs, I understand why they're striking.

As for the Hugh Dallas email, I don't agree. I got that email, and I forwarded it on in the humour it was intended. I have nothing against any Catholics and I'm not a Protestant, therefore I cannot be sectarian in this case. I forwarded similar emails regarding Michael Jackson and Gary Glitter. It's strange how they don't cause so much outrage.

The Dallas situation should be interpreted within a West of Scotland context, within that context a large population of the population may have taken offence. Secondly, and most importantly, the SFA have codes of conduct in place to regulate "behaviour" / discrimination / encourage equal ops / anti bullying throughout all levels of SFA regulated football. Thirdly the SFA as an employer will have an internal code of practise that regulates e mail creation / distribution. Dallas ( if he actually sent the e mail ) is guilty of breaching all three. if he didnt send the email then he has been set up. However you see it, his actions must fall into 2 above. ( assuming he did send it ) Strange how this story went very quite over the last week or so !

[Anfield]

You dont have to watch it on your PC.
Watching a SPL match on your PC is one way of livening things up.
As a corner kick is taken, the screen freezes due to a power cut at SPL ground, and the next thing you know you have missed two goals.

B.T.W. that link you posted a couple of weeks ago is excellent, best streaming I have for live matches

[theone]

The Dallas situation should be interpreted within a West of Scotland context, within that context a large population of the population may have taken offence. Secondly, and most importantly, the SFA have codes of conduct in place to regulate "behaviour" / discrimination / encourage equal ops / anti bullying throughout all levels of SFA regulated football. Thirdly the SFA as an employer will have an internal code of practise that regulates e mail creation / distribution. Dallas ( if he actually sent the e mail ) is guilty of breaching all three. if he didnt send the email then he has been set up. However you see it, his actions must fall into 2 above. ( assuming he did send it ) Strange how this story went very quite over the last week or so !

You're right about the "West of Scotland" context, and also about the employers responsibilities.

But this large number of people "taking offense" is nonsense in my eyes. I take offense at personal insults. I don't take offense at someone having a different political viewpoint or making fun of my political beliefs.

Why should religious beliefs get more respect than political ones? Why should making fun of the pope, someone who tried to hide child abuse, be more "offensive" than all the insults the MP's get on here?

Here's the picture from the email in question. If this really causes "offense" I think it it the offended, not the offender that has the problem.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9871/popeiscoming.png

[Anfield]

Why is it impossible in Scotland to have a debate about football without it degenerating into a sectarian squabble

[theone]

Why is it impossible in Scotland to have a debate about football without it degenerating into a sectarian squabble

The debate here was not about football, but the referee crisis.

For it to be "sectarian" it would have to include people from different sects of a religion opposing each other. I don't see that here.

[rob murray]

You're right about the "West of Scotland" context, and also about the employers responsibilities.

But this large number of people "taking offense" is nonsense in my eyes. I take offense at personal insults. I don't take offense at someone having a different political viewpoint or making fun of my political beliefs.

Why should religious beliefs get more respect than political ones? Why should making fun of the pope, someone who tried to hide child abuse, be more "offensive" than all the insults the MP's get on here?

Here's the picture from the email in question. If this really causes "offense" I think it it the offended, not the offender that has the problem.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9871/popeiscoming.png

Fine this a democracy you are entitled to your opinion, just as much as people who find the above personally offensive have their opinions on it, of course the " entrenched politics" of the West of Scotland obviously add weight to the percieved offense

[rob murray]

Why is it impossible in Scotland to have a debate about football without it degenerating into a sectarian squabble

Not true, unfortunatly the secterian issue historically, has its main origins in the West of Scotland..where the bulk of the population live and where economic power is highest..and where the two largest ( in terms of support ) scottish football teams come from

[tonkatojo]

I think its the abusers, not the abused that the "jokes" are aimed at.


Aye but the jokes should be in the jokes section of the org.;)

[theone]

Fine this a democracy you are entitled to your opinion, just as much as people who find the above personally offensive have their opinions on it, of course the " entrenched politics" of the West of Scotland obviously add weight to the percieved offense

Yes, it definately does.

I just find it annoying that religious views get a higher level of respect and political correctness than other views.

[squidge]

This is not a sectarian argument it's a discussion about integrity. It's not even about football it's about appropriateness and honesty

[rob murray]

Yes, it definately does.

I just find it annoying that religious views get a higher level of respect and political correctness than other views.

Another way to look at things, is the amount of exposure these issues get in the scottish press which largely reflects issues related to the west of scotland majority population.

[rich]

I spent 3 weeks in Florida watching the World Cup. The regulars in my local pub said this is the most boring sports show ever. They were absolutely correct.

So the current situation offers us the chance of getting away from the over-salaried, under-talented, spiced with corruption - travesty.

Let's put the referees in a team and the people who wave flags from the sidelines.
We could give them a few Euros for their trouble. Could it be any more drear than Holland versus...who was it?....forgotten, sorry.

There's more athletic skill in tiddleywinks. (NB In writing a sports column always mention tiddleywinks. It gives the impression you know what you are talking about and have a keen sense of the ridiculous.)

The tabloid newspapers in the UK reported on the world cup like it was Dunkirk, or the Charge of the Light Brigade or any of those military defeats so cherished by the Brits. So let them put their money where their readers are hanging about. Yes, let's have a team of Sunshine Girls. That would indeed be the dream team. They could play Italy and get totally thumped. OH, MAMA MIA!!!! ETC ETC. Then at least I could hold my head high while downing a few pints and utter the ultimate British excuse - "We invented the game!"

[The Pepsi Challenge]

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4750/hughon.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/hughon.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Scottish Television tonight report that Hugh Dallas has left his position as Head of Referee Development at the Scottish Football Association. Dallas has been under scrutiny since assistant referee, Steven Craven, resigned claiming he was bullied by the former World Cup ref.

It soon emerged that referee Dougie McDonald disclosed lying to Celtic manager, Neil Lennon, to Dallas within hours of the incident, however, Dallas failed to disclose the lie to the injured party, causing enormous bad feeling between the association and the injured party.

Things got worse when allegations Dallas had sent an offensive email about Pope Benedict XVI, bringing the Scottish FA into disrepute.

[squidge]

yes lol i just read he was leaving the SFA. I am not surprised, its unfortunate but he made a serious error in judgement which raised questions about his own integrity that of his colleagues and his employersit is that which has ultimately cost him his job,

[scotsboy]

Is this the same Hugh Dallas who was attacked on the field of play by a Keltic supporter, and had the windows in his house smashed by Keltic fans? Integrity.........dont make me laugh.

This dispute is about people with rater large chips on their shoulders who cannot accept the authority of a referees decision.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Is this the same Hugh Dallas who was attacked on the field of play by a Keltic supporter, and had the windows in his house smashed by Keltic fans? Integrity.........dont make me laugh.

This dispute is about people with rater large chips on their shoulders who cannot accept the authority of a referees decision.

When refs and institutions lie, cheat, conspire and cover up; when they fail to apologise or recognise what they've done makes them look dishonest and corrupt; then, they have no integrity. That is what this issue is about: transparency, and holding those to account for their misdemeanours. To deny and deflect this issue comes as no surprise to me. The way these death threats against refs have been reported in the media as 100% fact is beyond the pail, too. Indeed, who exactly was the last high profile Scottish football figure to be hospitalised by unhinged fans, hmmm?

[scotsboy]

When refs and institutions lie, cheat, conspire and cover up; when they fail to apologise or recognise what they've done makes them look dishonest and corrupt; then, they have no integrity. That is what this issue is about: transparency, and holding those to account for their misdemeanours. To deny and deflect this issue comes as no surprise to me. The way these death threats against refs have been reported in the media as 100% fact is beyond the pail, too. Indeed, who exactly was the last high profile Scottish football figure to be hospitalised by unhinged fans, hmmm?

Dallas left his position due to pressure from the Catholic Church, it had nothing to do with football.

Do not try to muddy the water with unassociated incidents, the simple fact is the intimidation of messers Reid and Lennon has caused this dispute - nothing else.

[scotsboy]

This is the picture which Hugh Dallas, Scottish Football Association's head of referee development, forwarded to his friends on the eve of Pope Benedict's visit to Scotland in September, and over which he has been forced to resign.

The Roman Catholic Church called it a 'tasteless message' and demanded that the SFA sack Mr Dallas. The Director of the Catholic Media Office, Peter Kearney, urged very swift retribution. He said the email was 'totally unprofessional, gratuitously insulting to the Pope, deeply offensive to the Catholic community of Scotland and an incitement to anti-Catholic sectarianism'.

An incitement to anti-Catholic sectarianism?

Incitement?

A joke?

But this is Scotland, where certain Rangers-Celtic tensions are but a breath away from the IRA-UDF civil war.

It is where even the 'Hokey Cokey’ is an expression of 'faith hate'.

It is where politicians have urged the police to arrest anyone using the song to taunt Roman Catholics under legislation designed to prevent incitement to religious hatred.

The SFA have been assiduously trying to stamp out sectarianism, and so they had no choice but to bow to the demands of the Roman Catholic Church: Hugh Dallas had to go.

When does humour become unacceptobly sectarian?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_t2Ry7I5DNuQ/TPDhVsC1uzI/AAAAAAAAF_Y/WF9DC-79fh8/s320/Pope+condom.jpg

Is this Peter Brookes cartoon, which appeared in The Times last year, sectarian?

Is it an 'incitement to hatred'?

Or is it artistic genius communicating what a thousand words does not?

There is no doubt that the Pope caused dismay among HIV/AIDS campaigners last March when he declared on a trip to Africa that condoms were not the solution to the epidemic ravaging the continent. He said that the disease 'cannot be overcome by distributing condoms – it only increases the problem'. He unequivocally condemned the use of condoms even as a means of preventing the spread of HIV.

By portraying Pope Benedict with a condom on his head, Peter Brookes was ridiculing this assertion.

And yet many Roman Catholics saw it as an attack on the Pope personally.

But after last week's 'clarifications' on condom usage (however they finally translate), perhaps Mr Brookes might feel vindicated.

The Hugh Dallas email is crude in comparison: there is no artistry to speak of at all. And yet it communicates a sense of righteous indignation that there has been a cover-up of priestly paedophilia even at the highest level.

Are we now at the point where religion - all religion - is protected from criticism and immune to ridicule and satire?

Are all to be 'standardised'; rendered void of levity and humour?

Are we seeing the prohibition and systematic redefining of a great British characteristic?

What about the Guardian's anti-Semitism?

The BBC's anti-Anglicanism?

Would Hugh Dallas have been sacked for sending out an email which offended Protestants?

Taken from http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/

[Bazeye]

Why should religious beliefs get more respect than political ones?

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9871/popeiscoming.png

They shouldnt do but I suppose it depends on what religion it is as some religions seem to take offence more readily than others.

[Bazeye]

Watching a SPL match on your PC is one way of livening things up.
As a corner kick is taken, the screen freezes due to a power cut at SPL ground, and the next thing you know you have missed two goals.

B.T.W. that link you posted a couple of weeks ago is excellent, best streaming I have for live matches

Was watching BHA v FC United today with a Hungarian commentary. Strange.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Dallas left his position due to pressure from the Catholic Church, it had nothing to do with football.

Do not try to muddy the water with unassociated incidents, the simple fact is the intimidation of messers Reid and Lennon has caused this dispute - nothing else.

Dallas left because of pressure from the Catholic Church? Or because of the "intimidation of messers (sic) Reid and Lennon"? If it's the latter, well, what did they say? Celtic haven't said anything about the Dallas' situation. And neither should they. It has nothing to do with either of them. Elaborate, if you like.

I don't think the Church should have got involved but they did, because it had taken so long for the SFA to take action. Sending such an email when in such a sensitive job such as Dallas' begs belief. But he should have gone for much, much more than that. Of course, such emails to the SFA is just banter. And for Dallas to blackmail Regan into calling off the strike if he did away with the email investigation - well, there's integrity right there for you, eh?

Incidentally, it's all about to get a lot, lot worse for the SFA. Stay tuned... Deny, deflect, deny, deflect, blah blah blah...

[squidge]

I would damn well expect Hugh Dallas to have been sacked for sending an email out that denigrated Protestants . For all the reasons that have already been mentioned already. I don't understand why peoplefind this so difficult. If you work for an organisation that has an objective or ethos publicly stated which is fundamental to what they stand for and you do something professionally which puts you at odds with that, then you have to go. It's simple

[scotsboy]

I would damn well expect Hugh Dallas to have been sacked for sending an email out that denigrated Protestants . For all the reasons that have already been mentioned already. I don't understand why peoplefind this so difficult. If you work for an organisation that has an objective or ethos publicly stated which is fundamental to what they stand for and you do something professionally which puts you at odds with that, then you have to go. It's simple

Aye, but really it has nothing to do with his job does it Squidge.

[scotsboy]

It was you who brought the Dallas situation into the thread with your spoof poster (oh the irony). Dallas left his position because of pressure from the Catholic Church in Scotland, an absolutely disgraceful situation which will hopefully be investigated by FIFA due to the interference of a religious body in sport.



The referee dispute is down to the fact that officials at Keltic FC have questioned the integrity of referees specifically in relation to the way that Keltic FC. Those officials, namely Reid and Lennon (I will excuse the intellectually challenged Hooper who was simply fed a line and performed like a monkey) do not agree that referees are doing the best they can, they actually think that referees are going out of their way to penalize Keltic. I am not sure if any of you know any top class referees, I have one close friend who is a former grade one referee and his take on the situation is this:




the game is too fast for decisions to be anything but honest as you give what you think you saw and don't have time to say "oh it's Keltic I will/will not give it”. I never in 20 years made a bias decision, wrong decisions because I was crap very possibly but not one time did I not give what I believed to be correct based on the speed of the game.



Referees are human, they will make mistakes, unless there are changes made to the structure of how games are officiated then these mistakes will continue, as they always have done – everyone accepts this, they may not like this but they except it, all that is but Keltic FC, who have never lost a game fairly since 1888.



I think the SFA have behaved deplorably in this affair, they should have come down hard on Keltic from the start. I also agree that they will come under closer scrutiny in the near future, and I note with interest (and this moves things a little bit further North) that Keltic fans now have their sights on the vice-chairman of the SFA Referee Committee, David Dowling (formerly of Clachnacuddin but now I understand on the board at Brora Rangers), his crime, well it appears he supports Rangers.

[orkneycadian]

Should all this not be tucked away out of the road in the Sports section?

[scotsboy]

Should all this not be tucked away out of the road in the Sports section?

Why? Its a social issue.

[orkneycadian]

Looks like football, fans and referees to me.... :)

[squidge]

I don't understand why it's not about his job scotsboy... I have no doubt that referees do their best in a hard job and they are paid well for it. I have no axe to grind here, I like football but don't support any club much, I'm an English wifie and im not catholic either, so the sectarian thing is a bit of a mystery to me.

This story interested me because I always find it baffling when professional, intelligent people seem to do something stupid (like sending that email) that raises questions about their integrity (like lying in a professional capacity) and ultimately loses their job. I always feel like asking"WHAT did you think you were doing????" and this seemed like a good opportunity to explore these issues. That it has turned into the usual old firm rubbish is disappointing.

[ducati]

What the thread was actually about was party political mickey taking. Very interesting turn it has taken though. :eek:

[scotsboy]

I don't understand why it's not about his job scotsboy... I have no doubt that referees do their best in a hard job and they are paid well for it. I have no axe to grind here, I like football but don't support any club much, I'm an English wifie and im not catholic either, so the sectarian thing is a bit of a mystery to me.

This story interested me because I always find it baffling when professional, intelligent people seem to do something stupid (like sending that email) that raises questions about their integrity (like lying in a professional capacity) and ultimately loses their job. I always feel like asking"WHAT did you think you were doing????" and this seemed like a good opportunity to explore these issues. That it has turned into the usual old firm rubbish is disappointing.

Why do you think sending on such an email affects his capacity to do his job?

[squidge]

Could you not be bothered reading the rest ofthe thread scotsboy? It's all there

[scotsboy]

I read it Squidge and I still really fail to see how forwarding the email has any impact on his integrity to do his job. Seriously it is beyond me, can someone please explain!

[Bazeye]

I have no doubt that referees do their best in a hard job and they are paid well for it..

Well paid.....?

[scotsboy]

A very good well balanced article on this situation, by a Journo whose prose is usually tinted green;)

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/celticfc/Tom-English-39In-effect-they.6642373.jp?articlepage=1

[squidge]

Ok scotsboy, let's take it away from football. Guy works for a company that make a good vacuum cleaner. He is very able, smart and in charge of the development of the vacuum cleaner. He has a company email account and he is in the public eye, often quoted about the vacuum cleaner and saying how wonderful it is and how everyone should buy it cos it's really good. Someone sends him an email which is mildly funny but ridicules aspects of the vacuum cleaner and compares it unfavourably to the main competitor. He forwards that email from his works account to several people and they all have a good laugh about it. Then the email appears in a newspaper showing that it was sent from this guy in a professional capacity. It appears that he is slagging off his product and showing a preference for the competitor. How does the employer know he isn't saying that to people? How do people who read what he says know whether he is telling the truth about his own product when he says how good it was. After all he was laughing about how rubbish it was the other day. His integrity is shot, he still might be able, capable of doing the job but he is no longer suitable. He has brought the product, the company and himself into disrepute and so he has to go.

You can't publicise one thing and then behave like you believe in another and expect to be believed. Neither can you treat fundamental objectives of the organisation you work for with contempt and use their email to do so and expect your employer to say " aye aye, don't worry, you take the mickey out of our organisation and we will just continue paying you to do so.

[Loafer]

It was you who brought the Dallas situation into the thread with your spoof poster (oh the irony). Dallas left his position because of pressure from the Catholic Church in Scotland, an absolutely disgraceful situation which will hopefully be investigated by FIFA due to the interference of a religious body in sport.



The referee dispute is down to the fact that officials at Keltic FC have questioned the integrity of referees specifically in relation to the way that Keltic FC. Those officials, namely Reid and Lennon (I will excuse the intellectually challenged Hooper who was simply fed a line and performed like a monkey) do not agree that referees are doing the best they can, they actually think that referees are going out of their way to penalize Keltic. I am not sure if any of you know any top class referees, I have one close friend who is a former grade one referee and his take on the situation is this:







Referees are human, they will make mistakes, unless there are changes made to the structure of how games are officiated then these mistakes will continue, as they always have done – everyone accepts this, they may not like this but they except it, all that is but Keltic FC, who have never lost a game fairly since 1888.



I think the SFA have behaved deplorably in this affair, they should have come down hard on Keltic from the start. I also agree that they will come under closer scrutiny in the near future, and I note with interest (and this moves things a little bit further North) that Keltic fans now have their sights on the vice-chairman of the SFA Referee Committee, David Dowling (formerly of Clachnacuddin but now I understand on the board at Brora Rangers), his crime, well it appears he supports Rangers.

And I have just sussed out who you are Scotsboy. It was the "oh the irony" comment.

Didn't you used to write in a certain fanzine as "The Red Hand of Ulbster"

I rest my case. BIGOT

The Loafer

[squidge]

In actual fact the biggest thing Hugh Dallas was guilty of was gross stupidity. He gave people who don't like him an excuse to push to get rid of him. I'm not contributing to this discussion any more though. Scotsboy and now particularly loafer have just given an indication of everything that is wrong with this board and with football I guess. Loafer your comments are uncalled for and distasteful. Scotsboy you are as bad as the "keltic"(????) supporters you seek to slag off. From an objective point of view Hugh Dallas was very stupid and made an error of judgement that meant he lost his job. That's sad, because he no doubt was a highly experienced person but we all have to take responsibility for our stupid actions as well as credit for our great ones.

Now I'm taking my football home because I dont think from this thread your posts are the sort of posts I want my posts to be associated with. Go throw stones at each other if you must. I have said my piece and I'm done.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

It was you who brought the Dallas situation into the thread with your spoof poster (oh the irony). Dallas left his position because of pressure from the Catholic Church in Scotland, an absolutely disgraceful situation which will hopefully be investigated by FIFA due to the interference of a religious body in sport.

I hope so, too. Perhaps, then, FIFA will see for themselves just how ingrained and tarnished Scottish football is with sectrarianism. SFA chief, Stewart Regan, has only been here five minutes and even he put out a statement regarding this: "Clearly there are sectarian issues at play. It's naive to think that can be removed overnight."

Rightly, Dallas went for the email situation, but he should have gone long before it - when he should have been sacked for condoning lying, perpetuating it, for covering it up, and for not apologising for doing so. In my view, he's been made a scapegoat by the SFA; an organisation who didn't have the mettle to take him to task. In short, they whimped out. Dallas, along with Dougie Dougie, have been made sacificial lambs to satisfy the masses. In fact, you could easily compare Dallas with Al Capone: Capone, despite his murdering and racketeetring, was ultimately nailed for tax.

Dallas is officially a sectarian bigot.



[/QUOTE]The referee dispute is down to the fact that officials at Keltic FC have questioned the integrity of referees specifically in relation to the way that Keltic FC. Those officials, namely Reid and Lennon (I will excuse the intellectually challenged Hooper who was simply fed a line and performed like a monkey) do not agree that referees are doing the best they can, they actually think that referees are going out of their way to penalize Keltic. I am not sure if any of you know any top class referees, I have one close friend who is a former grade one referee and his take on the situation is this:


Referees are human, they will make mistakes, unless there are changes made to the structure of how games are officiated then these mistakes will continue, as they always have done – everyone accepts this, they may not like this but they except it, all that is but Keltic FC, who have never lost a game fairly since 1888.[/QUOTE]

You know a former Grade 1 referee? Was this Bobby Tait by any chance? David Syme? Bob Valentine, perhaps? Referees, just last week, were known to have failed a test on the rules of the game. Maybe they need to leave it to those who do, no? Many have said without these refs the game wouldn't take place. In the current financial climate - to earn £800 (with expenses) for 90 minutes work - there would be a queue wrapped around Hampden by those willing to take on the job.

Celtic, however, were quite right to say they don't expect to be lied to, and that they wouldn't tolerate it. After all, they were. They asked for clarification. They haven't received an apology for being lied to, either.

And if you're making reference to the Dundee Utd-Celtic game that kicked all this off - by the quote from the former referee you mentioned - may I remind you that Celtic won that game.



[/QUOTE]I think the SFA have behaved deplorably in this affair, they should have come down hard on Keltic from the start. I also agree that they will come under closer scrutiny in the near future, and I note with interest (and this moves things a little bit further North) that Keltic fans now have their sights on the vice-chairman of the SFA Referee Committee, David Dowling (formerly of Clachnacuddin but now I understand on the board at Brora Rangers), his crime, well it appears he supports Rangers.[/QUOTE]


Why should they have come down hard on Celtic? Celtic were lied to. They have the right to know why this happened.

As for your alleged comment about Dowling, I know nothing about this. So while we're on about alleged comments, it's my understanding that Dallas had doctored 27 other match reports that, hopefully, will be made public in due time. I also know from a reliable source that Peat placed a bet on George Burley getting the Scotland manager's job two weeks before he took up the post. This may also see the light soon. It may not. That said, Dallas' resignation is only the tip of the ice-berg.

For me, though, the buck stops with the Blazers. They're clinging to their sad, lil' way of life by the skin of their teeth, and they're gonna go down fighting all the way.

[scotsboy]

That is enough for me, been good times and bad on here but enough is enough. Masalama.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Min fadlak, habibi?

[theone]

Dr Richard Dawkins has joined the debate!

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/555416-football-referee-sacked-for-pope-joke

[Anfield]

Why is it impossible in Scotland to have a debate about football without it degenerating into a sectarian squabble


The debate here was not about football, but the referee crisis.

For it to be "sectarian" it would have to include people from different sects of a religion opposing each other. I don't see that here.


You were saying.....

[rob murray]

[]

"For me, though, the buck stops with the Blazers. They're clinging to their sad, lil' way of life by the skin of their teeth, and they're gonna go down fighting all the way"

Quite possibly the most accurate and truest words to appear on the org !!!

[Walter Ego]

You were saying.....


It's not very often that I agree with Anfield...

But:

Scottish football is living in the dark ages. It is laughable that no dispute involving two of the allegedly 'top' teams in Scotland can go more than half a football pitch length without bigotry rearing its ugly head.

The whole Rangers/Celtic situation is an embarassment to Scotland. Full stop.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

It's not very often that I agree with Anfield...

But:

Scottish football is living in the dark ages. It is laughable that no dispute involving two of the allegedly 'top' teams in Scotland can go more than half a football pitch length without bigotry rearing its ugly head.

The whole Rangers/Celtic situation is an embarassment to Scotland. Full stop.

Sectarianism and bigotry is an embarrassment to Scotland. Stop lumping Rangers and Celtic together.

[WeeRob]

I note with interest (and this moves things a little bit further North) that Keltic fans now have their sights on the vice-chairman of the SFA Referee Committee, David Dowling (formerly of Clachnacuddin but now I understand on the board at Brora Rangers), his crime, well it appears he supports Rangers.

If he's on the board at Brora Rangers then shouldn't he be supporting... Brora Rangers????

Not going to comment on the sectarianism issue.

[Metalattakk]

Sectarianism and bigotry is an embarrassment to Scotland. Stop lumping Rangers and Celtic together.

Why? They're both two cheeks of the same arse.

You yourself have an irrational intolerance of Rangers and their fans, that makes you inherently bigoted no matter how hard you protest.

Pleading that all Celtic fans are neither sectarian nor bigoted is true ostrich-head-in-the-sand behaviour.

I myself am intolerant of idiocy, as is evident by this response to your post.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Why? They're both two cheeks of the same arse.

You yourself have an irrational intolerance of Rangers and their fans, that makes you inherently bigoted no matter how hard you protest.

Pleading that all Celtic fans are neither sectarian nor bigoted is true ostrich-head-in-the-sand behaviour.

I myself am intolerant of idiocy, as is evident by this response to your post.

What took you so long? Where have you been? Good to see you back.

No, Rangers and Celtic are not the same thing.

I know some Celtic fans are sectarian. I'm sure some of them are bigoted, too. Personally, though, I am not prejudiced against anyone's ethnicity, race, class, religion, sexual orientation or gender, either.

So let's get back to talking about the referees, shall we? I see Shug and Dug have both walked. Do you an opinion on the whole affair?

[The Pepsi Challenge]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3252183/CHURCH-of-Scotland-backs-claims-the-Hugh-Dallas-Pope-email-row-exposed-bigotry.html


THE Church of Scotland last night BACKED claims by a top Catholic that the Hugh Dallas Pope email row exposed widespread bigotry.

RC spokesman Peter Kearney said the sick net jibe allegedly sent by SFA refs' chief Dallas was just the "tip of the iceberg" of "deep and vicious" religious intolerance in Scotland.

Now Rev Ian Galloway, the Kirk's convener of the Church and Society Council, has backed his stance and said prejudice against Catholics has to stop.

Rev Galloway, 58, a minister at Gorbals Parish Church in Glasgow, said: "The Church of Scotland wants to see Scotland rid of every last vestige of sectarianism.

There is no place for it in our society. I am especially appalled by acts of violence carried out on my Catholic colleagues.

"There is no excuse for this - or for the attitudes that lead to it."

Well said, Reverend. Gives us all hope.

[Metalattakk]

What took you so long? Where have you been? Good to see you back.

Eh? Ah, you've been trying to troll a response. Well done. You win.


No, Rangers and Celtic are not the same thing.

Never said they were. The quote was 'two cheeks of the same arse'.


Personally, though, I am not prejudiced against anyone's ethnicity, race, class, religion, sexual orientation or gender, either.

So you say. You obviously have an intolerance for certain Rangers fans though, and that my friend makes you by definition a bigot.

Here's a wee tip for you, my bigoted ginger-neeped friend:

Read, cogitate, respond. In that order.

Spare us the spin-doctoring.

[theone]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3252183/CHURCH-of-Scotland-backs-claims-the-Hugh-Dallas-Pope-email-row-exposed-bigotry.html


THE Church of Scotland last night BACKED claims by a top Catholic that the Hugh Dallas Pope email row exposed widespread bigotry.

RC spokesman Peter Kearney said the sick net jibe allegedly sent by SFA refs' chief Dallas was just the "tip of the iceberg" of "deep and vicious" religious intolerance in Scotland.

Now Rev Ian Galloway, the Kirk's convener of the Church and Society Council, has backed his stance and said prejudice against Catholics has to stop.

Rev Galloway, 58, a minister at Gorbals Parish Church in Glasgow, said: "The Church of Scotland wants to see Scotland rid of every last vestige of sectarianism.

There is no place for it in our society. I am especially appalled by acts of violence carried out on my Catholic colleagues.

"There is no excuse for this - or for the attitudes that lead to it."

Well said, Reverend. Gives us all hope.

This, to me, shows exactly where we are going wrong.

There was a thread on here about muslim protesters against the British army.

Yes they were Muslim, but that was irrelevant. I posted at the time that they all had beards. Why wasn't the headline "Bearded protesters"? The simple fact is that their protests were no more to do with Islam than they were with Beards. But because religion is brought into the equation is raises awareness, respect and injects an element of political correctness.

The divide in the west of Scotland is not about religion.

I'd be shocked if 10% of those who go to the football matches of either Glasgow club go to church or chapel.

It is a social issue about immigrants, plain and simple. No different to what's happening in Germany where their leader has come out and said that the turkish population haven't integrated but have produced a secular society.

The fact that Aiden McGeady has been quoted as calling himself "an Irish footballer" when neither himself or his parents were born there tells me everything I need to know about the mentality down there. Nothing to do with religion, it's a social issue.

The issue in Scotland is not about sectarianism, it is about bigotry. But then again, we're all bigots, it's in our nature to support those that we see as our own and hold lower opinions of others.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Eh? Ah, you've been trying to troll a response. Well done. You win.



Never said they were. The quote was 'two cheeks of the same arse'.



So you say. You obviously have an intolerance for certain Rangers fans though, and that my friend makes you by definition a bigot.

Here's a wee tip for you, my bigoted ginger-neeped friend:

Read, cogitate, respond. In that order.

Spare us the spin-doctoring.

And here's one for you, my favourite condescending bald-headed poodle:

Relax, deny, deflect. In that order.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

The fact that Aiden McGeady has been quoted as calling himself "an Irish footballer" when neither himself or his parents were born there tells me everything I need to know about the mentality down there. Nothing to do with religion, it's a social issue.

3.10 in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSS61Deu8t8

[theone]

3.10 in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSS61Deu8t8

The quote I was referring to wasn't when he chose to play for Ireland but actually after he moved to Russia.

Speaking about life in Glasgow he mentioned something along the lines of being victimised because he was Irish.

At best, he is 3rd generation Irish. The fact that he classifies himself as a foreign national whilst holding a British passport is where I see fault. A lack of integration.

Nothing to do with religion.

[Metalattakk]

And here's one for you, my favourite condescending bald-headed poodle:

Relax, deny, deflect. In that order.

Face it, you did neither read nor cogitate, did you. How typical.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Face it, you did neither read nor cogitate, did you. How typical.

When you're done with the personal attacks - if you can manage it for one post - feel free to give us your opinion on the referee situation.

[Amy-Winehouse]

Cellik hav created a monster with this situation. The refs would like to say whose fault it is for them going out on strike but fearing for their safety & their families, they wont.

Lenin & Dr Death should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute, McDonald lied to them- he gave a pen then decided (correctly) that it wasnt, a big mistake but Cellik won the game 2-1 - so why not get on with it ?

They then were up against Hearts who beat them 2-0 & thoroughly deserved to win as Ledley was sent off (correctly) for a bad challenge. Lenin was then sent to the stand, for what can only be described as a disgusting verbal assault on the official ( try lip reading it folks) . TLB (lennin) then had the audacity to ask for clarification as to why he was sent off ???

Somewhere in between Cellik played Rangers at home and were 1-2 down when Rangers won a dodgy penalty, (remember Scott McDonald falling down outside the box when he wasnt touched by Broadfoot 2 seasons earlier ? I do ) Rangers scored & the match was effectively over, cue even more cheating allegations !!!!:roll:

Now fast forward to Last weekend, ICT were the visitors to Spudland & were 2-0 down , Cellik had a foreign referee as they have been campaigning for , for years & low and behold he goes and chops off a goal for cellik [lol] ICT come back & draw 2-2. So all that complaining didnt work either.

Who are this ghastly club going to persecute next ? The rest of Scotland are sick of them - they are turning the league into a laughing stock

Celtc fc never beaten fairly since 1888 - yawn

[ducati]

Wow, I wasn't watching this thread because it took a turn I wasn't interested in.

Blimey, is this even about football? :confused

[Metalattakk]

When you're done with the personal attacks - if you can manage it for one post - feel free to give us your opinion on the referee situation.

Aye OK.

The referees make mistakes. Grow a set. Accept it. Get on with it.


Blimey, is this even about football? :confused

Barely. It's an extraction of a misplaced sense of victimisation by a deluded section of the West of Scotland society. It's just draped in football colours for justification.

[rob murray]

The fact that Aiden McGeady has been quoted as calling himself "an Irish footballer" when neither himself or his parents were born there tells me everything I need to know about the mentality down there. Nothing to do with religion, it's a social issue.

...The undeniable point is that a certain % of the west of scotland population historically define themselves as "Irish", whilst a certain % define themselves as British ( Unionist ), whats left I suppose define themselves as Scottish. Interestingly the Irish Scots support Ireland, and the unionist largely "follow" England ( going by some of the chants / British regalia etc ) The majority of "real scots" live outwith Strathclyde...maybe Strathclyde should be given independence and just get on with it and the rest of us soldier on in real scotland !

[golach]

Ducati, IMHO I would suggest you close the thread it is developing its a haven for Sectarian Trolls, sadly this happens whenever Pepsi and Amy get on their high horses.

[ducati]

Aye, sounds like a plan