View Full Version : Greetings from the Auction Mart Developer
Colin Graham
07-Aug-06, 11:26
Morning everyone.
I've been following the message board now on ASDA/Pennyland Farm/Thurso Auction Mart for some time now and thought I might put the real story forward. My name is Colin Graham and I work for Miller who is, as of 25 July, the new owner of the Auction Mart site.
Having seen that there have been a variety of press articles/threads on the subject of the Auction Mart site recently, I thought I'd give the opportunity to put any questions you may have directly to me, and I'll post up the answers here on Caithness.org. This way you'll know that you're getting it straight from the 'horse's mouth'.
Firstly, some facts:-
1. Miller Developments bought the auction mart site from United Auctions (whose parent company is Elphinstone) on 25 July 2006. We saw it as an obvious brownfield regeneration site. UA continue to lease the site rent free from us until the end of this year.
2. ASDA (or, more accurately, McLagan Investments, who are one of the ASDA stable of companies, as any Google search will confirm) have an option to buy approximately 5.5 acres (out of a total of 8.5 acres) of the auction mart from us at an agreed price.
3. ASDA entered into this option with United Auctions in May of this year, shortly before I believe the Pennyland Farm application went to the Area Planning Committee in June.
4. We are currently considering our own options for the site and hope to submit a planning application shortly. As you will be aware, the site is allocated in the 2002 Caithness Local Plan for a variety of uses including housing, business, community uses, and non-food retail.
The issue of traffic is one that has been raised a number of times on this website in relation to the auction mart site's redevelopment. What I can say in response to the concerns raised is this:-
a) any proposals for the site's redevelopment will have to accompanied by a full Transportation Assessment (TA), which looks at the traffic likely to be generated and how this could be accommodated on the surrounding road network. If there are are issues thrown up by the TA, such as concerns about a particular junction or pedestrian crossing, then our study will look at potential solutions.
b) one of things I am very keen on is reinstating the pavement on the east side of Ormlie Road. As most people will know, there's no pavement here at the moment, which means that children from the High School will quite often be forced to walk on the road to get round cars parked on the verge. I know the Council and the Community Council have been keen to see a pavement here for many years.
c) if the auction mart redevelopment is to include retail, one of the key things to remember is that the peak periods for retail traffic (normally Thurs evening, Fri evening and the weekends) don't tend to coincide with the peak periods for schools and colleges. Of course, this is one of the issues that will be covered in detail in the traffic study.
d) it's important to remember that access by car is only one of the issues to be covered in the TA. Access by walking, cycling or by public transport are also important and I believe that the central location of the auction mart in the town makes the site accessible to the majority of people in the town.
I hope this information is useful but if anyone has any further questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
Regards,
Colin Graham
Moonboots
07-Aug-06, 11:36
I personally think the best use out of this area would be to make a shopping development out of it as in like a Shopping Centre.. This would make more big businesses come up this far with the rail linkup to provide deliveries.
Parking would be available underneath the retail site which has been used in other places around the country.
Traffic would not be so much a problem with the right ideas put forward.
Could this be the next thing happening in Caithness then Colin.
Colin Graham
07-Aug-06, 11:54
Moonboots
Non-food retail is certainly one of our options and would tie in with what the Local Plan suggests.
Underground parking is, unfortunately, a complete non-starter as the rents retailers are willing to pay in Thurso wouldn't pay for the cost of building underground spaces.
Regards, Colin
I hope this information is useful but if anyone has any further questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
Regards,
Colin Graham
Hi Colin, one of the symptoms I have developed from life is cynicism. Nothing is ever as it seems, and even less so when big business is concerned.
Why then do you have a need to post this message onto caithness.org, when i know, and I know you know, that there are other factors involved in your discussions, which for obvious reasons need to remain confidential?
Im not taken in by all the hype about Asda, or for that matter any multi national being good for the community.
Big business does whats good for big business.
What exactly are you trying to achieve from this little gimmick?
Colin Graham
07-Aug-06, 12:33
Gleeber
I can't blame you for being a cynic...
Let's be clear. Miller Developments' business is making a profit from property developments. We've bought Thurso Auction Mart to make a profit. Nothing particularly underhand about that; it's why we're in business, it's what we're good at, and it's not a state secret.
However, development doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing per se. Cynic or not, we do produce developments that we're proud of. I'd point you towards our Edinburgh Quay development, which has just won Scottish Development of the Year and is a great example of brownfield regeneration.
Treat this thread as a gimmick if you like but what it does do is let you, and anyone else with an interest, converse directly with the developer, not hear about things third hand via press releases and rumours. Again, I'm quite proud that we're using new ways of reaching those affected by our developments. I'm aware that it does potentially open us up to greater criticism but if it encourages a healthy debate, it has to be a good thing.
Regards, CG
Colin, I agree, developments a good thing. Thats not why I am cynical because I am aware of some of your groups work.
What I am interested in is the information you are not likely to tell us and I know theres a fair bit of that so my question remains the same.
What exactly do you hope to achieve from this little gimmick?
You are using this new medium to tell us half stories, not because you are interested in us as a community, but because you are interested in your own and your companies needs.
Thats the nature of cynicism.
SNIP
Thats the nature of cynicism.
Just remember CG, we're not all of the same ilk as gleeber [lol]
Just remember CG, we're not all of the same ilk as gleeber [lol]
Hey, I want asda I want a new Dounreay I want Caithness to be the capital of the world but I also want to know whats behind Colins unusual approach. Is he some super duper whizz kid lawyer sitting in an office on the second floor of some 10 story building in Auld Reekie carrying out a company order to butter up the people of caithness.org, or is he acting alone?
Come on chaps, this is the stuff of Caithness.org
Hmm:
The article in the Groat (http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/433/Asda_sets_sights_on_mart_land.html) says:
Miller Developments (MD) yesterday confirmed that an outline planning application is to be lodged for a superstore on land currently used by the auction mart, off Ormlie Road.
The Edinburgh-based firm has just bought the site from Elphinstone, which in January 2005 bought over mart operators the UA Group.
The sale includes a clause, previously agreed between Elphinstone and Asda, that gives the latter an option to buy the majority of the land.
MD’s development manager Colin Graham said the plans comprise a 31,000-square-feet store, six-pump petrol station and 250-space car park.
It mirrors the scheme earmarked for a field opposite the New Weigh Inn, which was intended to kick-start a multi-million-pound commercial redevelopment involving the landowners and Tullochs, the Inverness property developers.
The Highland Council’s Caithness area planning committee controversially refused planning consent in June on the chairman’s casting vote.
The issue has been referred to the council’s full planning committee later this month.
This however could well prove academic as Asda sets its sights on moving into the mart after it closes towards the end of the year.
Mr Graham said: “We and Asda are very keen on the mart site. There’s obviously a huge number of people in Thurso in favour of Asda coming to Thurso but equally there seems to be quite a strong body of opinion against the use of a greenfield site in a visually sensitive area on the edge of town.”
The front page of the Org says:
Store Wars - Asda Strikes Back
Following the story in the John O'Groat Journal on Friday 4 August Asda have issued a statement refuting suggestions from the developer Miller Developments that they are planning to advance proposals for their new store at the former Thurso Auction Mart site. Asda said "Statements by Miller Developments about ASDA's intentions have been made without the prior knowledge or consent of ASDA store Limited and do not represent ASDA's position" "We have no intention of advancing our store proposals for Caithness on the former Thurso Auction Mart site. Subject to support from the Council, ASDA's flagship entrance to the Highlands will be at Pennyland Farm, Thurso or outwith Caithness" ASDA have instructed their lawyers to take the matter up on their behalf expressing disappointment that a commercial interest would make allegations about their intentions without their consent.
The casual reader would surely claim that the third statement in red contradicts the first two, and this is not addressed in the first post in this thread. Would you care to comment Mr Graham?
Countryman
07-Aug-06, 13:33
Was this site at one time considered by Tesco - with ASDA coming to this side of the county (We Hope) will Tesco have ideas to put up a smaller outlet as a spoiler to ASDA the councillors will are likely surppot it.
Millers are in it for profit so they would be happy with a price war between ASDA and Tesco's.
The more the merrier from their point of view.
I'd be impressed by Edinburgh Quay development if 95% of people from Edinburgh could afford to live there. But, fact is every set of new breeze block shoe boxes in this city are unaffordable, unimaginative, pollutive, aesthetically intrusive, and highly dependent on a far stretched, outdated,expensive, & congested service infrastructure. I live in Leith and nearby to all these new developments on that side and quite honestly the people that buy these things are getting ripped off and it is difficult to distinguish between these and the 1960's multis in Leith.
Sorry.. not trying to turn this into an affordable housing thread but, you mentioned Edinburgh Quay and I do think this is more of an issue in this country than ASDA, even considering ASDA is owned by WALMART, one of the most unethical multi-national monsters on the planet.
But, hey I dunno is that the plan? Make the housing stock unaffordable or scraping-by affordable so everyone is forced to buy cheap imported from China rubbish from the lassie at the checkout in ASDA who's just tryin' to make a livin' and afford rent on her caravan out in the sticks so, the cultivators of these "developments" can profit and be proud of it too? just a thought....
Whatever it is you have in mind on the Auction Mart site.. I would like to hope it is with the community and environment and NOT profit in mind!
Moonboots
07-Aug-06, 13:52
Whatever it is you have in mind on the Auction Mart site.. I would like to hope it is with the community and environment and NOT profit in mind!
Are you kiddin of course its for profit.
Every kind of developer is out to make money some way or another so why not them.
The way I see it - The more business brought into the county the better for employment etc....
Dont get me wrong, I dont think it should be used as a housing development but a retail kind or maybe both.
Are you kiddin of course its for profit.
Every kind of developer is out to make money some way or another so why not them.
The way I see it - The more business brought into the county the better for employment etc....
Dont get me wrong, I dont think it should be used as a housing development but a retail kind or maybe both.
aye... but which businesses? WALMART is well known for their terrible policys of how they treat their staff and how terribly they pay them. Just cause its called ASDA don't let them fool you.
My point about the housing was not about what they should put at the Auction Mart site... but, a comparison of Miller's previous developments and what is being proposed in Thurso. Housing is a huge problem.. especially in the Highlands I just wonder when and if we'll see any intelligible solutions. And again... "I would like to hope" that they are thinking of the community and their environment and NOT just about profit. But, I'm not gonna sit about and wait for pigs to fly nor am I gonna hold my breath.;)
Hey, I want asda I want a new Dounreay I want Caithness to be the capital of the world but I also want to know whats behind Colins unusual approach. Is he some super duper whizz kid lawyer sitting in an office on the second floor of some 10 story building in Auld Reekie carrying out a company order to butter up the people of caithness.org, or is he acting alone?
Come on chaps, this is the stuff of Caithness.org
well.... if he's come for scrutiny from all nooks and crannies of Caithness and beyond he's come to the right place.:D
Colin Graham
07-Aug-06, 15:13
Gleeber:-
2nd floor - yes, spot on
10 storeys - no (3 actually)
Lawyer? No (town planner)
Super whizz kid (I'd like to think so but I think family & friends would disagree :D )
DrSzin:-
Let's be clear. I can't speak for ASDA. All I can tell you is that the facts associated with this particular project:-
Jan 2006 - ASDA submit planning application at Pennyland Farm
May 2006 - ASDA take option over 5.5 acres at Auction Mart and prepare layout for foodstore proposal
Jun 2006 - ASDA's Pennyland Farm site is refused
Jul 2006 - UA announce Auction Mart site is to close.
Jul 2006 - UA sell Auction Mart to Miller. ASDA's option remains in place.
Auh 2006 - ASDA denies that it has any intention of advancing store proposals at the AUction Mart site and that it's "Pennyland Farm or outwith Caithness."
The question you have to ask ASDA is: "why take an option over the auction mart site, prepare a scheme, then announce that you have no intention of developing the site?"
pultneytooner
07-Aug-06, 15:27
I'd trust the moneymen as much as I'd trust a politician.
In the words of paul daniels, "not a lot".
DrSzin:-
Let's be clear. I can't speak for ASDA. All I can tell you is that the facts associated with this particular project:-
Jan 2006 - ASDA submit planning application at Pennyland Farm
May 2006 - ASDA take option over 5.5 acres at Auction Mart and prepare layout for foodstore proposal
Jun 2006 - ASDA's Pennyland Farm site is refused
Jul 2006 - UA announce Auction Mart site is to close.
Jul 2006 - UA sell Auction Mart to Miller. ASDA's option remains in place.
Auh 2006 - ASDA denies that it has any intention of advancing store proposals at the AUction Mart site and that it's "Pennyland Farm or outwith Caithness."
The question you have to ask ASDA is: "why take an option over the auction mart site, prepare a scheme, then announce that you have no intention of developing the site?"No. I suspect most of our readers would be more interested in asking why you said what you did to the press "without the prior knowledge or consent of ASDA store Limited" - assuming that's what you did indeed say.
As for ASDA, I can't second-guess their plans, but perhaps they were keeping open a second choice of site, or perhaps even a last resort. That sounds like sound business planning to me.
Good luck with your politicking - I suspect you'll need it! :)
Colin Graham
07-Aug-06, 15:50
Don't believe everything you read in the press (hence my posts here) :) .
What it comes down to is this:-
1. The planning officers have come to the view that there is capacity for another foodstore in Thurso.
2. The auction mart has announced it's closing.
3. ASDA controls both the Pennyland Farm and the Auction Mart site.
It's now up to the Council to decide what uses are appropriate for both sites.
Don't believe everything you read in the press (hence my posts here) :) .
What it comes down to is this:-
1. The planning officers have come to the view that there is capacity for another foodstore in Thurso.
2. The auction mart has announced it's closing.
3. ASDA controls both the Pennyland Farm and the Auction Mart site.
It's now up to the Council to decide what uses are appropriate for both sites.Oh God, I should have known that you'd try to pull that stunt yet again - namely to try to convince us that a simple set of assertions that show you and your company up in a good light are "the facts" or "what it comes down to". Luckily, this is not really any of my business, and you ain't my problem. I'd eat you alive if you were - promise. :lol:
I'll leave you to the mercy of the poor people whose problem you are. Sorry guys, but I have better things to do...
Asda would have to be mad to consider the mart site when they already have a perfectly good site at Pennyland which they can develop for much less cost.
I beleive this "mart site option" is something that can be used by the local councillors as an excuse to turn down Asda's planning application on the 16th.
Also, if Asda get planning permission for their Pennyland site the mart site will be worth much less money to the people who now own it.
Let's face it they must be getting pretty worried when they have resorted to getting one of their minions trying to drum up support on Caithness.org
Thought that Morrisons were refused planning permission for a supermarket on the auction mart sight a few years ago.
The question you have to ask ASDA is: "why take an option over the auction mart site, prepare a scheme, then announce that you have no intention of developing the site?"
Hello again Colin
I'm not interested in why asda take an option on a site, and then, when the new owners of that site break business confidentiality to the local press, deny their involvement. That's just business crookedness in action and no more than I would expect.
My interest lies in your decision to come onto caithness.org with half a story. I want to know what that's about? Otherwise, like the good doctor, whose concerns for the "poor people of Caithness" seems to be diminishing, I'm off till my bed.
The Mart site in Thurso is totally unsuitable for the ASDA development. The amount of traffic generated would be totally unacceptable and present a severe hazard to the pupils attending Thurso High School and more particularly those attending Miller Academy. Already traffic on Prices Street and Janet Stret is at a dangerous level. The proximity of the Highland College, the Orlmie Industrial Estate, the Station and many other businesses make access problematic and the dangers great.
ASDA should come to Thurso for the future development of the town, its employment prospects and show it as a credible 21st century location in the country and the very best option is the Pennyland site.
Phoebus_Apollo
07-Aug-06, 19:12
The Mart site for ASDA is a mistake waiting to happen - it`s too congested, too close to the High school and will undoubtably cause residents to complain of "loss of view" yet again...[evil]
The greenfield site at Pennyland has all the key factors to support the development, viz;
Location – the greenfield site for proposed development is in a perfect spot for development allowing ease of access via the main road with the inclusion of a round-about that would alleviate any traffic problems. Although objectors concerns over “loss of view” the impact would be minimal.
Local Economy – ADSA would provide many benefits to the community, the store would provide upto 200 jobs in the local area, provide more choice for consumers, cheaper petrol prices and boost the declining local economy.
Long Term Future – with the eventual decline in jobs at Dounreay the local populace will diminish in size and the result is economic downturn coupled with unemployment. ADSA will provide a secure future for a sizeable number of employees and help keep the local community afloat in the coming years
i dont care where asda is built, i just hope it does.Its about time we had a better variety than just coop somerfields and lidl. This way, itll save me travelling through to the new tesco when that finally opens!! Does everyone else agree?:roll:
robglysen
07-Aug-06, 22:50
Already traffic on Prices Street and Janet Stret is at a dangerous level.
The traffic in Thurso is absolutely nothing my friend, go down to cheshire, and try driving from Stockport to Marple at about 5:00 PM.
I think traffic lights at the end of Princes street and at the bottom of Castle green road would be worth debating though.
Has Colin Graham visited the sites in question?
It might be worth pointing out the dichotomy: Caithness has a population who express a desire for more supermarkets, yet do not make enough fuss when those they already have short change them regarding service. Caithness also has a number of NIMBY's who don't want to see the new supermarkets spoiling their views or reducing the value of their property.
The mart site is the less likely to meet with resistance from the owners of the pricy houses between the Old Scapa House site and Gills. However, it will involve a great deal of traffic calming measures to get it right.
I tentatively support the supermarkets, but I am cynical. Had Tesco and Asda purchased the former Morrisons/safeway stores when those went to Somerfield, and simply extended them, we might have been enjoying the facilities with none of this controversy.
Perhaps we should keep in mind what I have hinted in other threads- that the good people of Thurso like their days out- either in Inverness or Wick, and another store will only thrive if it has what people really really want (and in the case of THS pupils this is pronbably going to be a cafe selling chips, cheese, sweets, sticky sugary drinks and anything they can't get in their superhealthy school environment -to have asda next door might be a real headache for the teachers.)
I'd be impressed by Edinburgh Quay development if 95% of people from Edinburgh could afford to live there. But, fact is every set of new breeze block shoe boxes in this city are unaffordable, unimaginative, pollutive, aesthetically intrusive, and highly dependent on a far stretched, outdated,expensive, & congested service infrastructure. I live in Leith and nearby to all these new developments on that side and quite honestly the people that buy these things are getting ripped off and it is difficult to distinguish between these and the 1960's multis in Leith.
Sorry.. not trying to turn this into an affordable housing thread but, you mentioned Edinburgh Quay and I do think this is more of an issue in this country than ASDA, even considering ASDA is owned by WALMART, one of the most unethical multi-national monsters on the planet.
But, hey I dunno is that the plan? Make the housing stock unaffordable or scraping-by affordable so everyone is forced to buy cheap imported from China rubbish from the lassie at the checkout in ASDA who's just tryin' to make a livin' and afford rent on her caravan out in the sticks so, the cultivators of these "developments" can profit and be proud of it too? just a thought....
Whatever it is you have in mind on the Auction Mart site.. I would like to hope it is with the community and environment and NOT profit in mind!Woooohoooo sjwahwah, that is the classiest tirade the org has seen in some weeks. But there's more class to come.
b) one of things I arm very keen on is reinstating the pavement on the east side of Ormlie Road. As most people will know, there's no pavement here at the moment, which means that children from the High School will quite often be forced to walk on the road to get round cars parked on the verge. I know the Council and the Community Council have been keen to see a pavement here for many years.Get this Orgers. The man with the office in Edinburgh has his ear to the ground on Ormlie Road. Don't worry about the onward march of uncaring capitalism, don't worry about polluting traffic, don't worry about Thurso's kids being corrupted by the inexorable expansion of the bete noire of the evil empire that's screwed trailer park trash from Hawaii to Maine and from Anchorage to Key Largo. This dude is concerned. He's so concerned that he's going to endanger the onward march of democratic meglomania by building us teuchters a..... a..... I can hardly say it.... a new pavement down the east side of Ormlie Road. Oh thank ye, oh great saviour of the teuchter race. We'll do anything for that reinstated pavement, We'll take the whole world's nuclear waste an we'll take it, no, not at Dounreay, but at Holy Pennyland just to show our appreciation of CG@MD's stupendous generosity and care. There's more..... we'll name it the Miller Developments Memorial pavement and we'll have a special Gala Week event every year with the proceedings going to Miller Developments' shareholders.
Get real man. We can read you like a children's book. I have contacts (thanks mum.) You messed up last week and you're here to make amends or to take your revenge on ASDA's lawyers. Straight from the horse's mouth? I think you need lessons in horse anatomy my good friend. The mouth is at the end that doesn't crap all over Ormlie road.
Ha ha, only joking. It's my mum you want to watch out for. The witch of Ormlie is on RED ALERT :lol:
Colin, perhaps you are trying to be genuine in your presentation and your discussion. But look at the names of the people with whom you are discussing your concerns. On top of that, they call themselves "orgers." Not a term that is particularly awe inspiring or confidence building. I don't take their chatter seriously most of the time and I am used to them. My wonderment is how seriously will they take someone who would take them seriously in the first place.
I have been reading this latest development in the supermarket saga (and have contributed to other similar threads) for a couple of days. In my area we have a Sainsbury's (just down the road), an Asda (short drive away), a Morrisons (short drive away), a Tesco and a Waitrose (also short drives away). I was impressed by the approach taken by Sainsbury - they brought an information display unit to the location during the enquiry stage and filled it with artists' impression of the development, detailed plans and people to answer questions.
Our community concern was mostly traffic (two nearby schools) and a very busy crossroads right where the supermarket was planned to go. Many locals visited this unit and many serious and searching questions were asked. The developers also held a meeting at the community centre. Part of the development was to enhance the crossroads and the so-called village centre. Nice touch!
Well, its been in for around 5 years now, has grown in size, the promised local improvements were made. The traffic is not really much worse because of the supermarket (it has become worse simply due to housing development) and the only detriment to the school children is the junk food they now buy!
The local argument about not needing yet another supermarket proved not to be true - they all do astounding trade.
Personally, I think that whatever organisation (and yes, they are all in it for the profit, of course) is proposing to move to any site, they should show moral and social consideration by bringing in a similar team to that used by Sainsbury. Show the locals what is being suggested, discuss the issues with them, listen to what the locals have got to say... they will, after all, be the future consumers.
Interesting bit on this morning's Radio Highland bulletin that Asda's lawyers are 'dealing with' Millers about the story that Asda are interested in the Mart site.
Asda spokeperson reported as stating categorically that it is Pennyland or NOTHING. "Millers statement about the Mart site was issued without any consultation with Asda."
'Twas on the radio; click below to listen again! The Asda story is the 3rd story in the bulletin.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/radioscotland/console/index.shtml?listen=/scotland/radioscotland/media/news/inverness
Fun isn't it!?
Colin, perhaps you are trying to be genuine in your presentation and your discussion. But look at the names of the people with whom you are discussing your concerns. On top of that, they call themselves "orgers." Not a term that is particularly awe inspiring or confidence building. I don't take their chatter seriously most of the time and I am used to them. My wonderment is how seriously will they take someone who would take them seriously in the first place.
Excuse me Canuck, I am an Orger and proud of it as are the other 2950 of us who are signed up to our Caithness web site. Well maybe 2949 now
Why would I care if the gentleman does not think I am awe inspiring or confidence building or not, I am a voice in here along with the rest of us Orgers, if you do not take the chatter in here seriously, then what can I say!
I am assuming this is a very tongue in cheek posting by your good self, and that you are trying to mediate again...well Canuck and Mr Graham all I can say is listen to the chatter, there is a lot of sense being posted here, the Orgers are a force to be reckoned with.
changilass
08-Aug-06, 13:11
Excuse me Canuck, I am an Orger and proud of it as are the other 2950 of us who are signed up to our Caithness web site. Well maybe 2949 now
Why would I care if the gentleman does not think I am awe inspiring or confidence building or not, I am a voice in here along with the rest of us Orgers, if you do not take the chatter in here seriously, then what can I say!
I am assuming this is a very tongue in cheek posting by your good self, and that you are trying to mediate again...well Canuck and Mr Graham all I can say is listen to the chatter, there is a lot of sense being posted here, the Orgers are a force to be reckoned with.
Sorry to go off topic, but I have to agree with Golach here, I am an orger and proud of it, I thought you were of the same mind Canuck. I can only hope that Gollach is right in his assumptions that you meant it tongue in cheek[disgust]
.
Perhaps we should keep in mind what I have hinted in other threads- that the good people of Thurso like their days out- either in Inverness or Wick, and another store will only thrive if it has what people really really want (and in the case of THS pupils this is pronbably going to be a cafe selling chips, cheese, sweets, sticky sugary drinks and anything they can't get in their superhealthy school environment -to have asda next door might be a real headache for the teachers.)
I am led to believe that pupils are encouraged to "Go down the street" as there is not enough space to accomodate them all. A sad state of affairs. I dread when the kids go back as I loathe the rubbish created when hundreds of kids descend on the town.
Changilass and golach i rather think that Canuk was being tongue in cheek. I rather think Mr Graham is trying to baffle us with his apparent openness which it strikes me may not be openness at all but simply more tiresome politicking
:roll: Yawn
Sorry to go off topic, but I have to agree with Golach here, I am an orger and proud of it, I thought you were of the same mind Canuck. I can only hope that Gollach is right in his assumptions that you meant it tongue in cheek[disgust]
Friends, this was not about "pride". You know that I am terribly proud of my involvement with caithness.org.
I was not trying to make fun of anyones user name, but I do know that they go out the window very quickly at org togethers, except for those very few who use their real name. They are part of being anonymous.
The issue I was getting at was one of trust. If a company is prepared to spend millions of pounds in a community then there needs to be a point at which the feedback from the community needs to be trustworthy. I totally support the issue of anonomity within the forum. The flip side of such identity protection is not having the means available to decide whether the information being conveyed is really trustable.
Which now goes to my concern for the motive of the thread. Perhaps it is genuine. I question it though because it is requesting a discussion with people whose identities and motives cannot be ascertained. Simply put, I don't trust a process where potentially faulty information is allowed to be assumed into the process without a means to screen that information.
Now, go back to gleeber and DrSzin's posts. They probably make more sense. I haven't had my morning coffee yet.
Humerous Vegetable
08-Aug-06, 14:11
Gleeber:-
2nd floor - yes, spot on
10 storeys - no (3 actually)
Lawyer? No (town planner)
Super whizz kid (I'd like to think so but I think family & friends would disagree :D )
DrSzin:-
Let's be clear. I can't speak for ASDA. All I can tell you is that the facts associated with this particular project:-
Jan 2006 - ASDA submit planning application at Pennyland Farm
May 2006 - ASDA take option over 5.5 acres at Auction Mart and prepare layout for foodstore proposal
Jun 2006 - ASDA's Pennyland Farm site is refused
Jul 2006 - UA announce Auction Mart site is to close.
Jul 2006 - UA sell Auction Mart to Miller. ASDA's option remains in place.
Auh 2006 - ASDA denies that it has any intention of advancing store proposals at the AUction Mart site and that it's "Pennyland Farm or outwith Caithness."
The question you have to ask ASDA is: "why take an option over the auction mart site, prepare a scheme, then announce that you have no intention of developing the site?"
I imagine ADSA has taken up the Auction Mart option to prevent potential competitors from getting a toe in the Thurso water before Walmart has secured its bit of the paddling pool.
I do feel that it is a very cynical ploy on the part of the Auction Mart developers to try and manipulate backing from members of this forum because they have demonstrated overwhelming support for the establishment of a new supermarket in Thurso.
If I were feeling very sceptical, I would wonder if some of the councillors with "property interests" in Pennyland were not involved in some way with this latest red herring, in order that supporters of the Pennyland development would be distracted from writing in support before the August 16 meeting.
.
The issue I was getting at was one of trust.
Canuck, that trust works both ways, this is the internet, is that poster the real Colin Graham? Or a figment of some ones active imagination, there are lots of issues in the Asda saga, the alleged Colin Graham, may be a ruse, or a fly in the ointment, as you have repeated told me there are some very clever folk out there on the net, and the .Org has a few very clever Orgers too.
I honestly do not understand your tack on this issue of anonimity, it makes not a slight bit of difference as far as I can see.
The developer seems to have gone quiet (much as I hate the song, I am going to quote from it)......has he been sent homeward tae think again?
... as you have repeated told me there are some very clever folk out there on the net, and the .Org has a few very clever Orgers too.
And as if on cue, one of them appeared.
Scotsboy, you were at the right place at the right time. Thanks.
dane miller
08-Aug-06, 23:37
While I would like to see an Asda in Caithness as well as a Tesco, I think that they are more or less trying to blackmail the county, and that they should be told where to go. Personally I think it is bluff and that they would go for the auction site if they were told they were not getting Pennyland. They are keen competitors of Tesco, are desparate to get into Inverness, and have nowhere north of Elgin.
While I would like to see an Asda in Caithness as well as a Tesco, I think that they are more or less trying to blackmail the county, and that they should be told where to go. Personally I think it is bluff and that they would go for the auction site if they were told they were not getting Pennyland. They are keen competitors of Tesco, are desparate to get into Inverness, and have nowhere north of Elgin.ASDA are playing hardball allright. How much is bluff and how much is genuine strike is harder to ascertain but I fear everyone else is playing softball in marigolds and they're in danger of getting their hands burnt pronto.
The developer seems to have gone quiet (much as I hate the song, I am going to quote from it)......has he been sent homeward tae think again?
And don't forget, an age-old battle tactic is to dis-inform both sides and let them fight amongst themselves until they become disorganised and disaffected, before stepping in and mopping up the mess.
I am not saying Mr Spokesman is or isn't real, and I am not saying that this is the hidden agenda here, but the tactic does seem to be in action, doesn't it?!
I have often voiced my own support of an Asda based upon my own experience here. But the choice of site does need to be a wise one with minimum impact on the community. Pennyland could spoil an excellent view; Thurso Market (my old playing ground) would not be good for the school and the children. In an earlier post I mentioned my local Sainsbury's approach, which I thought was excellent. One thing none of us considered was the vicinity of the local secondary school. Many children buy junk food from Sainburys before school and during lunchbreak. We all know the effects of such garbage, and the litter is unbelievable - an issue I have taken up with the council only last week.
All aspects must be considered and questions must be put to those that wish to develop. Ask people such as myself and others on the org about the pros and cons, then Asda, Tesco, whoever, must face the public and start answering the questions.
pultneytooner
09-Aug-06, 09:11
And don't forget, an age-old battle tactic is to dis-inform both sides and let them fight amongst themselves until they become disorganised and disaffected, before stepping in and mopping up the mess.
I am not saying Mr Spokesman is or isn't real, and I am not saying that this is the hidden agenda here, but the tactic does seem to be in action, doesn't it?!
I have often voiced my own support of an Asda based upon my own experience here. But the choice of site does need to be a wise one with minimum impact on the community. Pennyland could spoil an excellent view; Thurso Market (my old playing ground) would not be good for the school and the children. In an earlier post I mentioned my local Sainsbury's approach, which I thought was excellent. One thing none of us considered was the vicinity of the local secondary school. Many children buy junk food from Sainburys before school and during lunchbreak. We all know the effects of such garbage, and the litter is unbelievable - an issue I have taken up with the council only last week.
All aspects must be considered and questions must be put to those that wish to develop. Ask people such as myself and others on the org about the pros and cons, then Asda, Tesco, whoever, must face the public and start answering the questions.
Divide and conquer, ricco, a common managerial tactic.
Divide and conquer, ricco, a common managerial tactic.
That's the one! Not saying that is their intent... but it is working, isn't it?
Kingetter
09-Aug-06, 09:27
Some years back when Wallmart took over Asda, I got a feeling that they really only wanted a base to work from so they could get into Europe. I've not 'followed the plot' since, but nor have I found any reason to change my mind. Asda are not really interested in 'our views' and I suspect that lack of interest goes further.
Frankly, I'm not sold on an American Company dictating to us here in Caithness, irrespective of what has happened elsewhere.
This area is unique and could so easily be spoiled.
just heard that the council have postponed the planning hearing for asda until the end of September! somehing to do with the carry on between the co-op/council/tesco - so we'll have to wait even longer to sort this out
Kingetter
09-Aug-06, 10:43
Are we all breathless with excitement? or what?
This is all very cloak and dagger, he said, she said...........[disgust]
I would like to see an Asda in Caithness because they have a national pricing policy on fuel. Whether they're at Pennyland or at the Auction Mart bothers me not.
The politics of it all disappoints me, but doesn't surprise me. I am surprised that Mr Graham has stuck his head above the parapet.........though it looks like he may have run for cover now....and why not?
If you're still about Mr Graham I have a few questions:
1. Did you lurk for a while before your first post?
2. What is your preference for the auction site development?
3. Are Miller and Asda still on speaking terms?
4. What's your favourite song? ;)
5. Was Asda's option on the Auction Mart site a confidential clause?
pultneytooner
09-Aug-06, 11:42
This is all very cloak and dagger, he said, she said...........[disgust]
I would like to see an Asda in Caithness because they have a national pricing policy on fuel. Whether they're at Pennyland or at the Auction Mart bothers me not.
The politics of it all disappoints me, but doesn't surprise me. I am surprised that Mr Graham has stuck his head above the parapet.........though it looks like he may have run for cover now....and why not?
If you're still about Mr Graham I have a few questions:
1. Did you lurk for a while before your first post?
2. What is your preference for the auction site development?
3. Are Miller and Asda still on speaking terms?
4. What's your favourite song?
5. Was Asda's option on the Auction Mart site a confidential clause?
plaguerist.........http://www.perpetualnight.ca/forum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif
Some years back when Wallmart took over Asda, I got a feeling that they really only wanted a base to work from so they could get into Europe. I've not 'followed the plot' since, but nor have I found any reason to change my mind. Asda are not really interested in 'our views' and I suspect that lack of interest goes further.
Frankly, I'm not sold on an American Company dictating to us here in Caithness, irrespective of what has happened elsewhere.
T
his area is unique and could so easily be spoiled.Some years ago Walmart lobied the World Trade Organisation to try to get their support to have planning restrictions on large retail developments removed. Not surprisingly they were told where to go. Since then they have led the field in the tactic of chequebook planning ploys i.e. throw a handfull of beads to the gullible natives and councillors will fall over themselves to give planning approval no matter what the scheme is for. ASDA slipped up on their first attempt but will get what they want eventually even if it does mean messing up the greenfield at pennyland and helping Tulloch and Thurso Bay Trading co to complete the destruction in due course. ASDA may or may not be good for the town but come they will.
This is all very cloak and dagger, he said, she said...........
I would like to see an Asda in Caithness because they have a national pricing policy on fuel. Whether they're at Pennyland or at the Auction Mart bothers me not.
The politics of it all disappoints me, but doesn't surprise me. I am surprised that Mr Graham has stuck his head above the parapet.........though it looks like he may have run for cover now....and why not?
If you're still about Mr Graham I have a few questions:
1. Did you lurk for a while before your first post?
2. What is your preference for the auction site development?
3. Are Miller and Asda still on speaking terms?
4. What's your favourite song?
5. Was Asda's option on the Auction Mart site a confidential clause?
You forgot to ask if he was into windfarm development:D The auction mart would be ideal for the ormlie community windfarm, if the asda application goes down the plug hole, no?:roll:
BTW, anyone who has read the recently released energy review will know that the government is gonna make fundamental changes to the planning process to facilitate the development of windfarms. Other projects will presumably enjoy the same relaxation of the rules?
If -and when Tesco and Asda build their superstores, Caithness will have a grand total of 8 supermarkets in a radius of 20 miles. Given the population is declining, and ageing, may I ask where the money to be spent in them will come from?
Oh- and if they do come , they'd better do something about petrol prices- unleaded is currently 104p and rising.
Like most people I may not be poor- but I do have to budget to meet my bills. My petrol costs a month ago averaged at £140 for a 40 mile round trip each day from Monday to Friday. I calculate another tenner on to that- and our beloved government is planning further hikes. That tenner is going to come off my budget- I'll simply have to cut down on one part of my shop. Multiply that by the 25,000 folk who live in the county and no supermarket chain worth its salt will want to be operating in the Highlands- the cost of getting the goods will just not be worth it.
You forgot to ask if he was into windfarm development:D The auction mart would be ideal for the ormlie community windfarm, if the asda application goes down the plug hole, no?:roll:
Doesn't look like we're getting answers to any of the questions.
plaguerist.........http://www.perpetualnight.ca/forum/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif
Is a plaguerist some-one who spreads diseases???
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.