Lest we forget

[Alice in Blunderland]

I stand here alone with loved ones to hand;
my tributes to lay on this salient land.
The voices within as mem'ries unfold
of a comrade at peace now who shall grow not old.

A tree gives me shade in gardens so fine;
a stone with inscription that goes beyond time.
The headstones are neat in rows marching past
and the names of the fallen, forever will last.

A son kneels to touch his father's cold stone;
a tear in his eye for a friend long since gone.
A woman stands proud, with medals on show,
for a husband who died that his children might grow.

Recorded in stone and gun metal grey,
those heroes in silence look down as we pray.
The standard is dip'd,the flowers are laid
then the music is sounded and homage is paid.

They left us a torch to carry with pride
and hope for a future where peace can abide.
I dream of a life,that's lived without fear,
it is for that tomorrow our people lie here.



http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0VhATqAgrn-edMsT4QY2frJ18rMu5qXdA0tedFJ54nuM0baI&t=1&usg=__mqfNqwP8uxpN4gfFnEanG0FDgH8=

[peedie man]

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1132.snc4/149450_1482670468268_1279036818_31216397_883125_s. jpg

[brandy]

Ive just come back from the cemetery, and i counted 91 graves in a row of the fallen soldiers. there are more there as several of the graves had more than one sailor to a grave.
i met a lady and gentleman there.. his father had died in the war. the ship he had been on was torpedoed just off wick. he only found out in recent years where the ship his father was on was sunk and that his father could be buried in wick cemetery. he may be one of the unknown sailors buried there. So he goes there to pay his respects.
i dont know any of the young men who gave their lives during that time but 91 graves with mostly 19-26 year old men in them each got a thank you from me today.
Thank You to all the Men and Women who fought for us and brought us to where we are today.

[Gronnuck]

I remember while serving in South Limburg on Remembrance Day the local school children filed through the cemetery until each was standing in front of a serviceman’s grave. Then as one they would all place a flower against the headstone. It seems this is done all over The Netherlands. The Dutch certainly don’t want to forget.

[John Little]

Barwise Little, my grandfather's brother. Blownup by a German mine at the age of 18, never the same man again; despite ill health served in two wars and died too young at 52.

I'm thinking of you.

[lindsaymcc]

This might seem a tad controvertial .....i had my 2 mins silence this morning where i stood and remembered those brave men who gave their lives in ww1 and especially ww2 where they had no option but to fight against a madman whoose total idea was to take over the world. These men many of whoom where boys sacrificed themselves in order for this country to remain as it is today a free democracy ...i salute them for this and i have been to many parades on rememberance Sunday in my home town.

What i wont do is salute our current crop of fighting men who fight along side the Americans and others in taking over countries such as Iraq where over 100k citizens where killed unneccaserally.These wars along side Afghanistan have nothing to do with us imo and we should keep our beaks out. I hate war i abore war ...in 50 years or so since ww2 we have never learnt one bit that nothing is gained by war and therefore i detest anything to do with our present armed forces...men who have choice on wether they sign up and imho its just tough if you wanna go out to Afghanistan lads and have your leg blown off...fine but dont let places like St Dunstans come on the tv appealing for money to rehab these guys ....our heros...that really gets up my nose absolute b*ll*x ...

Sorry if this post offends anyone but one day and i hope soon we may as a country we will as a government sit down and say things around the world have got nowt to do with us so keep your nebs out....

I salute this morning the men of ww1 and ww2 and say god bless and thankyou for you didnt have that choice .




So, our young people dont sign up and they bring back the days of forcing young men into the military - great idea!

My husband joined the army as a chef, to learn a trade and get himself straight after years of not really knowing what to do with his life. He toured Afghanistan, Iraq and Kosovo. Yes, these people know what they are signing up for - to protect our country against terrorism, and to do the will of the country. Should the decisions made be the wrong ones (of course they are) is out of their hands as soldiers. I hope to god none of your children or grandchildren decide to join the services with your attitude to contend with!

[brandy]

Sam is seven years old and wants to be a solider. he is fascinated with WWII.
hubby s not keen on him being a soldier for obvious reasons. but my opinion is that if that is what he wants i will support him. No one wants their children to grow up go to war and die, but if the brave men and women didnt do it voluntarily then the draft would have to be brought back.
Soldiers do not get to make the choices of where they go or what they do. They are told and they do it.
in todays world abandoning your post will have you thrown in prison, 50 years ago it would get you shot.
there are so many soldiers who have refused to go back to their posts because they do not believe in what they are fighting for, they are being prosecuted and put in prison.
You sign up for an ideal, of fighting for your rights and guarding and protecting home and hearth.
It doesn't always work like that.
if you want to be angry do not blame the men and women who are just trying to serve their country , blame the policy makers and the powers that be. they are the ones responsible for where our troops go and what they do.

[Alice in Blunderland]

I started this thread as a tribute to those who have fallen in ALL wars not to court controversy on the rights or wrongs of the current situation.

This post would have been better under a new title however I accept that as this is an open forum there is no way of knowing now what turns the thread will take :~(

[Chrisf1961]

Ive deleted the post...we all have our views and mines is mine but i respect why you posted.....

[DeHaviLand]

Much respect to all those who serve and have served. Always remember our fallen, without their ultimate sacrifice, it may be you or I.

maybe Chrisf1961 would like to move his political diatribe to his own thread, just out of respect.

[Walter Ego]

Sierra Leone?

Kosovo?

God know how many shitty little corners of the planet trying to do the right thing whilst wearing a UN beret?

And you condemn the troops for the actions of our politcal leaders?

Very easy to be judgemental from the secure environment of the UK isn't it?

Your ignorance is unbelievable.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Ive deleted the post...we all have our views and mines is mine but i respect why you posted.....

Thank you :D

[Chrisf1961]

We all have to remember that we all have different opinions that is a fact .......and tbh sometimes i personally dont feel that is welcome on this forum ....but hey ho we move on

[Walter Ego]

We all have to remember that we all have different opinions that is a fact .......and tbh sometimes i personally dont feel that is welcome on this forum ....but hey ho we move on

But your opening statement acknowledged that your view was 'contraversial' so you can't really complain if you get return fire.:Razz

I'd start a eperate thread on what you said, C, I think that thread would have long legs.

[billmoseley]

Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there, I do not sleep.
I am in a thousand winds that blow,
I am the softly falling snow.
I am the gentle showers of rain,
I am the fields of ripening grain.
I am in the morning hush,
I am in the graceful rush
Of beautiful birds in circling flight,
I am the starshine of the night.
I am in the flowers that bloom,
I am in a quiet room.
I am in the birds that sing,
I am in each lovely thing.
Do not stand at my grave and cry,
I am not there. I do not die.

i think this is very fitting for today

[Bazeye]

Anyone else think that the publicity shot of The Saturdays, throwing poppies all over, punching the air and smiling as if they'd won the lottery was in bad taste?

[ducati]

In Flanders Fields

by John McCrae, May 1915
http://www.greatwar.co.uk/images/poppies/dscn5504x250.jpg
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[John Little]

He wrote that at the dressing station at Essex Farm - it's still there, on the banks of the canal near Ypres. He was killed not long after.

Valentine Strudwick is buried there too - aged 15 and faked his age.

The poppies do grow a lot round there.

And also on the Somme at Mametz, round Devonshire trench where they went across the valley although they knew there was a machine gun opposite them.
William Noel Hodgson was there and wrote this before the battle started;

Before Action.

By all the glories of the day
And the cool evening's benison
By that last sunset touch that lay
Upon the hills when day was done,
By beauty lavishly outpoured
And blessings carelessly received,
By all the days that I have lived
Make me a soldier, Lord.

By all of all man's hopes and fears
And all the wonders poets sing,
The laughter of unclouded years,
And every sad and lovely thing;
By the romantic ages stored
With high endeavour that was his,
By all his mad catastrophes
Make me a man, O Lord.

I,that on my familiar hill
Saw with uncomprehending eyes
A hundred of thy sunsets spill
Their fresh and sanguine sacrifice,
Ere the sun swings his noonday sword
Must say good-bye to all of this; -
By all delights that I shall miss,
Help me to die, O Lord.


They are buried there in their trench. It is such a poignant place that I can hardly cope with it.

[Alice in Blunderland]

Flower of the eternal sleep
Watching with the ones who weep
You, whose lives so short in bloom
Saw such bloodshed, death and gloom

You trembled to the sound of guns
Which tore to death beloved sons
You fluttered,died.Before your time
Dropped blood red petals, in their prime

Crimson poppies 'neath the clouds
Short lived,yet colourful and proud
New worn by humans with such pride
Remembering those who bravely died

You represent young lives cut short
Those who, for freedom bravely fought
Flower of the eternal sleep
Silently your vigil keep

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRL9PP5ssYmsdZiIf7guDUMu2P_zLtAc HAVF3cGPEyUO7D9cVJc

[veekay]

I heard this poem a few years ago and was so moved by it I embroidered it and gave it to the RBL.

We Survived

When you pin that poppy on
And remember those who died
Remember too the men who fought
Beside them and survived

We came home to start again
But struggled with our mind
To forget the horror of the days
And the Hell we left behind

Wounded though we did not bleed
We cried for close friends lost
But fought on bravely for we knew
Freedom was worth the cost

Though we are old and scarred for life
We suffered for us all
And in dreams the battles rage
And fallen comrades call

So when you hear that honor roll
The names of those who died
Remember too the men who fought
Beside them and survived

[Tubthumper]

(From a different war, in a faraway and often forgotten place)


When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say,
For Their Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today

[squidge]

My dear husband sang this at a concert a few years ago. The concert was around this time of year and he sang it alone and unaccompanied. It made me cry then and the words still move me.

Well how do you do, young Willy McBride,
Do you mind if I sit here down by your graveside,
And rest for a while 'neath the warm summer sun,
I've been walking all day and I'm nearly done.

I see by your gravestone you were only 19,
You joined the great fallin' in 1916.
Well I hope you died quick, and I hope you died clean.
Oh Willy McBride, was it slow and obscene?

[Chorus:]
Did they beat the drums slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly?
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down?
Did the band play the last post and chorus?
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest?

Did you leave a wife or a sweetheart behind,
In some faithful heart, is your memory in shrine?
And though you died back in 1916,
In that faithful heart, you're forever 19.

Or are you a stranger without even a name,
Enclosed forever behind a glass pane.
In an old photograph, torn and battered and stained,
And faded to yellow in a brown leather frame.

[Chorus]

Now Willy McBride, I can't help wondering why
Do those who lie here know why they died.
Did they really believe when they answered the cause,
Did they really believe that this war would end wars?

But the sorrow, the sufferin', the glory, the pain
The killing and dying were all done in vain.
But, Willy McBride, it all happened again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

[Chorus]

Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest?

[northener]

There's a whole wealth of songs dating from the C17th to today that portray a great amount of feeling and understanding regarding our troops.

I noticed that a chorus in Squidges post:

[Chorus:]
.....Did they beat the drums slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly?
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down?
.......

Is the same as the chorus from "The Trooper Cut Down In His Prime", (http://www.mysongbook.de/msb/songs/r_clarke/cutdown.htm)which dates from around the Napoleonic Wars.

It's a fascinating subject and really puts across the personal side of warfare and its' affects on those involved.

Nothing changes, really...unfortunately.:(

[John Little]

Interesting - I know that song and there's two tunes to it. One of the is 'Streets of Laredo' but I prefer the older keening version with the pipes.

But neither tune fits Squidge's song so it must be different.

I'll sing the Trooper cut down very loud if given half a chance.....

[veekay]

Squidgy we are sometimes asked to sing ( and I say sing quite loosely) the Green Fields of France and I haven't yet been able to get through it with out a tear. Eric Bogle certainly knows how to pull the heart strings.

[Aaldtimer]

There's a whole wealth of songs dating from the C17th to today that portray a great amount of feeling and understanding regarding our troops.

I noticed that a chorus in Squidges post:

[Chorus:]
.....Did they beat the drums slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly?
Did they sound the death march as they lowered you down?
.......

Is the same as the chorus from "The Trooper Cut Down In His Prime", (http://www.mysongbook.de/msb/songs/r_clarke/cutdown.htm)which dates from around the Napoleonic Wars.

It's a fascinating subject and really puts across the personal side of warfare and its' affects on those involved.

Nothing changes, really...unfortunately.:(

I'm more familiar with the Scots version "Pills of white mercury".
Having said that , this particular Trooper was cut down by escapades between the sheets rather than between the trenches!:lol:

[Moira]

"Green fields of France" gets me everytime. I hope this link works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpiwvQ7QhmU

[Bazeye]

Me too but prefer this version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr6OzLJrS2k

[northener]

I'm more familiar with the Scots version "Pills of white mercury".
Having said that , this particular Trooper was cut down by escapades between the sheets rather than between the trenches!:lol:

Absolutely, but it highlights quite succinctly that troops were more at risk from disease than they were from warfare (pre WW1, that is).

What I love about these folk songs is that they portray the thoughts and lives of 'common' people, not the highfalutin adventures of generals and admirals. The years may have rolled on, the weaponry and living standards may have changed, but the sentiment is the same.

[Alice in Blunderland]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUEgK8otSY7vRaNNroEiZNv7jFyqjd4 kGsXSbTQC_A9adz6_Zu


Lest we forget

[The Pepsi Challenge]

An interesting take on the poppy issue (taken from a recent news article):


'Ex-SAS soldier blasts Poppy Appeal as a 'political tool''

THE true meaning of the poppy is being forgotten as it becomes a political tool to support current wars, a former elite soldier has claimed.

Ben Griffin, the first SAS soldier to refuse to go into combat, also said the use of the word “hero” to describe soldiers glorified war and was an “attempt to stifle criticism” of conflicts the UK is currently fighting.

Mr Griffin’s claims echo an increasing body of opinion that the Royal British Legion’s Poppy Appeal’s promotion by key political and cultural figures is undermining the true message of Remembrance Day.

The Royal British Legion began using the poppy as a symbol for fundraising in the 1920s. Money used goes to help wounded servicemen past and serving and their families.

It also marks Remembrance Day, held on the second Sunday in November, which is usually the Sunday nearest to November 11, the date in 1918 on which World War I ended.

It commemorates the sacrifices of members of the armed forces and of civilians.

But Mr Griffin, who quit the army in 2005 on moral grounds, claims it has been turned into a “month-long drum roll of support for current wars”.

Griffin, who went to school in Machynlleth and Swansea, told Wales On Sunday: “This year’s [national] campaign was launched by inviting The Saturdays to frolic half naked in a sea of poppies.

“The judges on X Factor [at the request of the Royal British Legion] have taken to wearing grotesque poppy fashion items.

“The RBL would say they are modernising and appealing to a younger generation. I disagree. I think that their stunts trivialise, normalise and sanitise war.”

Griffin, now a London ambulance driver who served for eight years in the Parachute Regiment, went on: “The use of the word ‘hero’ glorifies war and glosses over the ugly reality.

“War is nothing like a John Wayne movie. There is nothing heroic about being blown up in a vehicle, there is nothing heroic about being shot in an ambush and there is nothing heroic about the deaths of countless civilians.

“Calling our soldiers heroes is an attempt to stifle criticism of the wars we are fighting in.

“It leads us to that most subtle piece of propaganda: You might not support the war but you must support our heroes, ergo you support the war.

“It is revealing that those who send our forces to war and those that spread war propaganda are the ones who choose to wear poppies weeks in advance of Armistice Day.”

Peace Pledge Union spokesman Albert Beale said: “Politicians clothe themselves in the red poppy. There’s something about a Remembrance Day ceremony that blinds you to reality.

“There’s also the sense that if you don’t wear the red poppy, you are not supporting our boys.

“Some people support them because of their suffering – but not the political aim they are being sent out to Afghanistan to fulfil.

“It is being used by politicians to support their agenda.”

[scotsboy]

An interesting take on the poppy issue (taken from a recent news article):


'Ex-SAS soldier blasts Poppy Appeal as a 'political tool''

THE true meaning of the poppy is being forgotten as it becomes a political tool to support current wars, a former elite soldier has claimed.

Ben Griffin, the first SAS soldier to refuse to go into combat, also said the use of the word “hero” to describe soldiers glorified war and was an “attempt to stifle criticism” of conflicts the UK is currently fighting.

Mr Griffin’s claims echo an increasing body of opinion that the Royal British Legion’s Poppy Appeal’s promotion by key political and cultural figures is undermining the true message of Remembrance Day.

The Royal British Legion began using the poppy as a symbol for fundraising in the 1920s. Money used goes to help wounded servicemen past and serving and their families.

It also marks Remembrance Day, held on the second Sunday in November, which is usually the Sunday nearest to November 11, the date in 1918 on which World War I ended.

It commemorates the sacrifices of members of the armed forces and of civilians.

But Mr Griffin, who quit the army in 2005 on moral grounds, claims it has been turned into a “month-long drum roll of support for current wars”.

Griffin, who went to school in Machynlleth and Swansea, told Wales On Sunday: “This year’s [national] campaign was launched by inviting The Saturdays to frolic half naked in a sea of poppies.

“The judges on X Factor [at the request of the Royal British Legion] have taken to wearing grotesque poppy fashion items.

“The RBL would say they are modernising and appealing to a younger generation. I disagree. I think that their stunts trivialise, normalise and sanitise war.”

Griffin, now a London ambulance driver who served for eight years in the Parachute Regiment, went on: “The use of the word ‘hero’ glorifies war and glosses over the ugly reality.

“War is nothing like a John Wayne movie. There is nothing heroic about being blown up in a vehicle, there is nothing heroic about being shot in an ambush and there is nothing heroic about the deaths of countless civilians.

“Calling our soldiers heroes is an attempt to stifle criticism of the wars we are fighting in.

“It leads us to that most subtle piece of propaganda: You might not support the war but you must support our heroes, ergo you support the war.

“It is revealing that those who send our forces to war and those that spread war propaganda are the ones who choose to wear poppies weeks in advance of Armistice Day.”

Peace Pledge Union spokesman Albert Beale said: “Politicians clothe themselves in the red poppy. There’s something about a Remembrance Day ceremony that blinds you to reality.

“There’s also the sense that if you don’t wear the red poppy, you are not supporting our boys.

“Some people support them because of their suffering – but not the political aim they are being sent out to Afghanistan to fulfil.

“It is being used by politicians to support their agenda.”

Interesting in what way? That he chooses to say he is a former SAS soldier in order to make a political statement.........yawn.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7194/lestweremember2.jpg (http://img843.imageshack.us/i/lestweremember2.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Gronnuck]

As I said on another thread, "Over the years I’ve heard all the debates and listened to all the arguments and now I’ve followed the contributions to this thread. Some people seem to have a need to score political points out of the wearing of the poppy. At the end of the day it’s a symbol of the act of remembrance, nothing more, nothing less."
There will always be people like Ben Griffin ex-SAS, and 'The Pepsi Challenge' who will attempt to debase the act of remembrance. I and a lot of other people believe it to be greater than that.

[golach]

I find Pepsi's latest posting here as particularly offensive, to our troops and to veterans through out the UK

[theone]

I find Pepsi's latest posting here as particularly offensive, to our troops and to veterans through out the UK

I imagine that's the response he was trying to provoke.

[Gronnuck]

I find Pepsi's latest posting here as particularly offensive, to our troops and to veterans through out the UK

Of course his graphic is offensive; and he has succeeded in despoiling a particularly poignant thread. But hey that’s freedom for you.
What is more offensive is the inane stupidity of people who cannot see through the political chicanery that the people responsible for these wars are the politicians that they themselves elected!
The British military are apolitical and are but a tool in the hands of their/our democratically elected government. It follow than that if you’ve got a gripe lobby your politician.

[Alice in Blunderland]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMzHlkB-Yg

Well for one little boy remembrance day was very,very special. Please click on the link and watch.


I think this is an excellent way to leave this thread as it is for remembrance of the fallen. To debate the rights and wrongs another thread would be more appropriate.



http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdPa5tzrsoOEyYrUhuYjaMVW6ai6NSF kYzpMMs2qSncyDRIMq7