View Full Version : Depleted Uranium munitions.
It has been confirmed by several sources that Israel is using depleted uranium weapons in Lebanon. In 1973, the Israelis first used DU weapons against the Egyptians and in Gulf War 1 the American military used over 350 tonnes of DU and non-depleted uranium weaponry across Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq... literally dumping their radioactive waste into the Middle East which otherwise should be stored as low level radioactive waste. And some of this waste has contaminated parts of Europe drifting on air currents from the Middle East and Central Asia. In the current Iraq war they used 500 tonnes of depleted uranium munitions within a 2 MONTH timeframe.. their "shock & awe" tactics. The shipments of weaponry that have passed through this country last week are GBU 28 bunker busters that are basically uranium warheads.... if this is the case.. our government is commiting war crimes and aiding and abetting America who is also commiting war crimes.
These weapons once used cannot be cleaned up.. they are in the atmosphere for eternity! Over 200,000 soldiers from the Gulf War on are listed as disabled.. most with ailments relating to fighting in battle zones where DU weapons were used. According to what I've read over "67% of post-Gulf War babies have serious birth defects or serious illnesses, such as missing eyes, limbs, and organs; fused digits; or organ malfunctions."
Tests in Afghanistan reveal... "In 2003, the Uranium Medical Research Center (UMRC) tested the urine of civilians in six different areas of Afghanistan four months after the American attacks and found that the urine had non-depleted uranium levels 400 to 2000 percent higher than normal. Several hundred Afghan civilians were found to have symptoms of radiation poisoning, such as joint pain, sleeping difficulties, headaches, memory problems, and disorientation. The Saddam Teaching Hospital in Basra (now the Al-Sadr Teaching Hospital) reported that cancer deaths had risen from 34 in 1989 to 603 in 2003. Birth abnormalites had also risen over 1,000 percent."
I should also add it is believed that white phosphorus is also being used in Lebanon as a weapon rather than only as an incendiary according to doctors treating victims and observing dead bodies in Lebanon. http://www.youtube.com/v/fBWRJ4JCacE
Guided Bomb Unit-28 (GBU-28)
BLU-113 Penetrator
The Guided Bomb Unit-28 (GBU-28) is a special weapon developed for penetrating hardened Iraqi command centers located deep underground. The GBU-28 is a 5,000-pound laser-guided conventional munition that uses a 4,400-pound penetrating warhead. The bombs are modified Army artillery tubes, weigh 4,637 pounds, and contain 630 pounds of high explosives. They are fitted with GBU-27 LGB kits, 14.5 inches in diameter and almost 19 feet long. The operator illuminates a target with a laser designator and then the munition guides to a spot of laser energy reflected from the target.
The GBU 28 "Bunker Buster" was put together in record time to support targeting of the Iraqi hardened command bunker by adapting existing materiel. The GBU-28 was not even in the early stages of research when Kuwait was invaded. The USAF asked industry for ideas in the week after combat operations started. Work on the bomb was conducted in research laboratories including the the Air Force Research Laboratory Munitions Directorate located at Eglin AFB, Florida and the Watervliet Armory in New York. The bomb was fabricated starting on 1 February, using surplus 8-inch artillery tubes as bomb casings because of their strength and weight. The official go-ahead for the project was issued on 14 February, and explosives for the initial units were hand-loaded by laboratory personnel into a bomb body that was partially buried upright in the ground. The first two units were delivered to the USAF on 16 and 17 February, and the first flight to test the guidance software and fin configuration was conducted on 20 February. These tests were successful and the program proceeded with a contract let on 22 February. A sled test on 26 February proved that the bomb could penetrate over 20 feet of concrete, while an earlier flight test had demonstrated the bomb's ability to penetrate more than 100 feet of earth. The first two operational bombs were delivered to the theater on 27 February.
The Air Force produced a limited quantity of the GBU-28 during Operation Desert Storm to attack multi-layered, hardened underground targets. Only two of these weapons were dropped in Desert Storm, both by F-111Fs. One weapon hit its precise aimpoint, and the onboard aircraft video recorder displayed an outpouring of smoke from an entrance way approximately 6 seconds after impact. After Operation Desert Storm, the Air Force incorporated some modifications, and further tested the munition. The Fy1997 budget request contained $18.4 million to procure 161 GBU-28 hard target penetrator bombs
So as we can see GBU 28 is not a Depleted Uranium Warhead Muntion. The description above details the development and operational use of GBU 28.
Google "GBU 28" and see for yourself.
So no war crimes then .. and any chance of a link to these "sources" of yours ??
Depleted Uranium munitions are used mainly in tank busting operations, employed by aircraft such as the A-10 Thunderbolt II, its Avenger cannon fires 30mm depleted uranium ammunition.Certain tank shells also make use of depleted uranium. On impact the depleted uranium round flattens and the uranium part of the munition penetrates the metal and richochets around the interior neatly disposing of the crew.
pultneytooner
29-Jul-06, 21:09
Guided Bomb Unit-28 (GBU-28)
BLU-113 Penetrator
The Guided Bomb Unit-28 (GBU-28) is a special weapon developed for penetrating hardened Iraqi command centers located deep underground. The GBU-28 is a 5,000-pound laser-guided conventional munition that uses a 4,400-pound penetrating warhead. The bombs are modified Army artillery tubes, weigh 4,637 pounds, and contain 630 pounds of high explosives. They are fitted with GBU-27 LGB kits, 14.5 inches in diameter and almost 19 feet long. The operator illuminates a target with a laser designator and then the munition guides to a spot of laser energy reflected from the target.
The GBU 28 "Bunker Buster" was put together in record time to support targeting of the Iraqi hardened command bunker by adapting existing materiel. The GBU-28 was not even in the early stages of research when Kuwait was invaded. The USAF asked industry for ideas in the week after combat operations started. Work on the bomb was conducted in research laboratories including the the Air Force Research Laboratory Munitions Directorate located at Eglin AFB, Florida and the Watervliet Armory in New York. The bomb was fabricated starting on 1 February, using surplus 8-inch artillery tubes as bomb casings because of their strength and weight. The official go-ahead for the project was issued on 14 February, and explosives for the initial units were hand-loaded by laboratory personnel into a bomb body that was partially buried upright in the ground. The first two units were delivered to the USAF on 16 and 17 February, and the first flight to test the guidance software and fin configuration was conducted on 20 February. These tests were successful and the program proceeded with a contract let on 22 February. A sled test on 26 February proved that the bomb could penetrate over 20 feet of concrete, while an earlier flight test had demonstrated the bomb's ability to penetrate more than 100 feet of earth. The first two operational bombs were delivered to the theater on 27 February.
The Air Force produced a limited quantity of the GBU-28 during Operation Desert Storm to attack multi-layered, hardened underground targets. Only two of these weapons were dropped in Desert Storm, both by F-111Fs. One weapon hit its precise aimpoint, and the onboard aircraft video recorder displayed an outpouring of smoke from an entrance way approximately 6 seconds after impact. After Operation Desert Storm, the Air Force incorporated some modifications, and further tested the munition. The Fy1997 budget request contained $18.4 million to procure 161 GBU-28 hard target penetrator bombs
So as we can see GBU 28 is not a Depleted Uranium Warhead Muntion. The description above details the development and operational use of GBU 28.
Google "GBU 28" and see for yourself.
So no war crimes then .. and any chance of a link to these "sources" of yours ??
Depleted Uranium munitions are used mainly in tank busting operations, employed by aircraft such as the A-10 Thunderbolt II, its Avenger cannon fires 30mm depleted uranium ammunition.Certain tank shells also make use of depleted uranium. On impact the depleted uranium round flattens and the uranium part of the munition penetrates the metal and richochets around the interior neatly disposing of the crew.U.S. arms make up the major part of the Israeli arsenal and Israel has been the number one recipient of U.S. arms aid for decades. The M1Abrams tank—which fires DU shells is supplied to israel by the u.s.a. and isarmored with DU-reinforced metal.
The “Apache” and the Cobra helicopter gun ships are also equipped to fire DU shells. Since this latest Intifada started, the U.S. has shipped Israel “the newest and most advanced multi-mission attack helicopters in the U.S. inventory.
D.u is also used as ballast in the tomahawl cruise missile which is also used by israel. Don't forget the use of dum dums and c.s gas, the use of which is also against international law.
These weapons once used cannot be cleaned up.. they are in the atmosphere for eternity! Over 200,000 soldiers from the Gulf War on are listed as disabled.. most with ailments relating to fighting in battle zones where DU weapons were used. According to what I've read over "67% of post-Gulf War babies have serious birth defects or serious illnesses, such as missing eyes, limbs, and organs; fused digits; or organ malfunctions."
I had a read through the Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations (http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts_2005_03_15_Joint_Nuclear_Operations.pdf) and it doesn't look like they take things like fallout into consideration too much, I could only find one paragraph dealing with the subject.
(6) Nuclear Effects. The immediate and prolonged effects of nuclear weapons including blast (overpressure, dynamic pressure, ground shock, and cratering), thermal radiation (fire and other material effects), and nuclear radiation (initial, residual, fallout, blackout, and electromagnetic pulse), impose physical and psychological challenges for combat forces and noncombatant populations alike. These effects also pose significant survivability requirements on military equipment, supporting civilian infrastructure resources, and host-nation/coalition assets. US forces must prepare to survive and perhaps operate in a nuclear/radiological environment. Commanders and military planners must contend with significant challenges in a nuclear/radiological environment and incorporate mitigating or avoidance measures into operation planning.
truth is nobody knows the entire components of the GBU 28.. as it is classified. but, it is "highly suspected" of containing DU as their main ballast penetrators... possibly alloyed with small amounts of other metals such as titanium. Between metal traders calculating the cost of these weapons versus their components plus documented evidence of the damage to its victims.. it is believed it does contain depleted uranium as opposed to tungsten.
Besides it is admitted even bragged about that other munitions... 350 tonnes of used in Gulf War 1 and 500 tonnes in 2 months in Iraq were radioactive DU weapons... and photos show DU weapons being loaded by Israeli soldiers two weeks ago... white phosphorus is also being used in Lebanon as in Fallujah by the obvious hallmark wounds of the chemical on its victims.
U.S. arms make up the major part of the Israeli arsenal and Israel has been the number one recipient of U.S. arms aid for decades. The M1Abrams tank—which fires DU shells is supplied to israel by the u.s.a. and isarmored with DU-reinforced metal.
The “Apache” and the Cobra helicopter gun ships are also equipped to fire DU shells. Since this latest Intifada started, the U.S. has shipped Israel “the newest and most advanced multi-mission attack helicopters in the U.S. inventory.
D.u is also used as ballast in the tomahawl cruise missile which is also used by israel. Don't forget the use of dum dums and c.s gas, the use of which is also against international law.
So do you admit GBU 28 cannot be a DU ammunition then ?? , as someone who worked in Air Ops and therefore had to know that what weapon to be employed against what target it couldnt due to its size. Uranium has a density 1.7 times of lead which would mean a GBU 28 filled with 630lb of it would never leave the ground as no aircraft could carry any meaningful distance to a target.
So now that that myth has been exploded, what now :
M1 Abrams does indeed have DU armour and shells, in the Gulf they were known as the Silver Bullet, do you have any evidence however they have been used as the Abrams can use many munitions not just DU.
Apache and Cobra gunships can indeed use DU, but only in the 30mm Chain Gun, however Israel has had these Apaches including the over-the-horizon Longbow for a while now, not just since the attacks in Lebanon. The Cobra's are elderly and second line now.
Dum Dums and CS Gas, Dum Dum's are illegal but do you have any evidence they have been used??, as for CS that is utter tosh the British Police use a CS spray !!, it is used to disperse crowds, and it used by all militairy forces to simulate Chemical Agents in NBC training, Hardly "illegal"
If you know that DU is used as part of the "ballast" of a cruise missile then you are a naughty boy, I was never even allowed up close to one and I am pretty sure my clearances were higher than yours.
As for the use of DU it is expensive and from my standpoint the Israelis would not need to use it as they are not going anti armour, convential munitions are doing what they require quite adequately.
I would be interested to see some links to back up the assumptions being made here. I would also like to point out that Hizbollah have never signed the Geneva Convention and certainly dont abide by it judging by the shells they have been lobbing into Israel for years so it would be a bit hypocritical to use it against Israel IF these assumptions prove true.
ya act like israel has NEVER broken any UN rules... and myth NOT exploded.. no pun intended.
dr. doug rokke is a good place to start for reference... headed the US Army's DU Project after the Gulf War.
but, you don't disagree white phosphorus is being used ?
and I don't think we should be taking advice on anything to do with the military from someone who thinks a Boeing 757 makes only an 18 foot hole in a wall of building.;)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2006/290706du3.jpg
anybody recognise what this weapon is?
truth is nobody knows the entire components of the GBU 28.. as it is classified. but, it is "highly suspected" of containing DU as their main ballast penetrators... possibly alloyed with small amounts of other metals such as titanium. Between metal traders calculating the cost of these weapons versus their components plus documented evidence of the damage to its victims.. it is believed it does contain depleted uranium as opposed to tungsten.
Besides it is admitted even bragged about that other munitions... 350 tonnes of used in Gulf War 1 and 500 tonnes in 2 months in Iraq were radioactive DU weapons... and photos show DU weapons being loaded by Israeli soldiers two weeks ago... white phosphorus is also being used in Lebanon as in Fallujah by the obvious hallmark wounds of the chemical on its victims.
You seemed quite confident you KNEW the components of a GBU 28 when you first posted. And you answer now contains phrases such as "it is beleived", could I have a link to these assumptions as this post now casts doubt on what you said first.
And it isnt classified as I pulled the details of the net, I worked in Air Ops and the breakdown of very few weapons are classified high enough to keep them out of the public domain. Certainly not a dumb bomb with a Laser Seeker on it which is all a GBU 28 is, Remember they are made after all by civilian companies.
As for DU being "Highly Suspected" of being a ballast penetrator trust me when you drop a GBU of any kind at 400 plus knots it doesnt need anything to help it go through a target. That is tosh.
"Photos show Israeli's loading DU weapons" , what are the distinguishing marks of a DU round then ?? .. I know.
What are the distinguishing marks of White Phos then becuase I ws led to believe it stuck to the victim and burned till exhausted so what what would be left behind to distinguis it as a white phos wound ??
Once again I would be interested in links to back up your opinions.
tell us then.. what kind of weapon is it?
got any explanations for these poor people?
http://www.uruknet.info/pic.php?f=sidon2.jpg
and I don't think we should be taking advice on anything to do with the military from someone who thinks a Boeing 767 makes only an 18 foot hole in a wall of building.;)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2006/290706du3.jpg
anybody recognise what this weapon is?
I did not make that comment.
Please supply a link to the thread where I apparently made that comment.
The Impact crater of a 767 on Impact is a CIVILIAN matter as it is a CIVILIAN aircraft, the investigation of which would have nothing to do with the militairy.
As for disregarding my militairy opinion thats your choice but lets face it I have been there and done it, odds are you just watched my performance on SKY News or CNN, if you needed a doctor who are you going to see ??, the man who practiced Medicine or someone whoe read about it or watched it on TV ??, and that attempt to debunk my experience was woeful, really woeful.
And I know what that weapon is .. its a HEAT round (High Explosive Anti Tank), see the reason we dont study civilian aircraft crashes in the Forces means we have more time to study things like Explosive Codes .. it works ..trust me.
I have already proved that youre initial post was wrong and you changed your opinion then to "its is believed .. " and "we will never really know .." you cant even admit that youre wrong so there is no point in further discussion, soi I will leave you to your assumptions and say Goodnight as I am off shift.
And to answer your point I dont care if the Israelis are using White Phos, Hizbollah underestimated the Israelis this time and while I dont and never would condone the deliberate bombing of Non Combatants I know from my experience how things can change in a target area and innocent victims will get killed (thats from my militairy EXPERIENCE) but lets face it Hizbollah have been showering Rockets on Israeali civilains deliberately for years now and by kidnapping Israeli soldiers they have crossed a line as no militairy force leaves a man behind.
You accused me of being a bigot last night when I have a mixed race girlfriend (her religion starts with M by the way) and I along with some mates do something practical to help by supporting two Iraqi Kids so while I offer my opinion I also do something practical.
What do you do SJ apart from make comments that are easily debunked and allege people said things they didnt in a woeful effort to discredit them from giving an opinion on a subject in which they have experience ??
What PRACTICAL help do you if you are so concerned about Lebanon and Iraq ??
Thought so ..
ah hem.. I refer to thread United 93. and again.. you cannot come up with any documentation or proof even with YOUR military expertise.. thought so....
I will PM you my Service Number which you can check.
don't care about a "service number".. do you know what kind of weapon it is in the photo of the Israeli soldier and do you know what kind of weapon it is that killed these people in the next photograph.. thought we could maybe make use of your expertise to answer some of these questions?
and I don't think we should be taking advice on anything to do with the military from someone who thinks a Boeing 757 makes only an 18 foot hole in a wall of building.;)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2006/290706du3.jpg
anybody recognise what this weapon is?
I saw something looked a lot like that in this (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1/DU-A28K.WMV) US Army training film, not far from the start.
The film was never shown to the US Army BTW.
aha!... i see what your talking about...
don't care about a "service number".. do you know what kind of weapon it is in the photo of the Israeli soldier and do you know what kind of weapon it is that killed these people in the next photograph.. thought we could maybe make use of your expertise to answer some of these questions?
Well as I posted earlier it is a High Explosive Anti Tank Round (HEAT) (is this a recent photo) was it taken recently or however long ago on an excercise ??
And as for the second photograph all it shows are two burnt corpses and a doctor standing over them, that could be the victims of a housefire for all I know, I am not a patholgist.
In my experience an air delivered munition wont leave a lot behind.
are you denying DU weapons are used at all? Photo was taken July 14th, 2006.. photo carries the following caption..
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2006/290706du3.jpg
" LEBANESE BORDER, ISRAEL - JULY 14: An Israeli army soldier carries armor-piercing ammunition as he loads his tank ahead of possible action against Hezbollah militants July 14, 2006 on Israel's northern border with Lebanon. Israel has stepped up its action against Hezbollah targets in an effort to drive the Islamic militants from the border and to force the return of two soldiers captured by the group in a cross-border attack two days ago on July 12. (Photo by David Silverman/Getty Images)"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2006/290706du4.jpg
"LEBANESE BORDER, ISRAEL - JULY 14: Israeli army tank crew load their Merkeva tanks with armor-piercing ammunition as they prepare for possible action against Hezbollah militants July 14, 2006 on Israel's northern border with Lebanon. Israel has stepped up its action against Hezbollah targets in an effort to drive the Islamic militants from the border and to force the return of two soldiers captured by the group in a cross-border attack two days ago on July 12"
You asked me what the round was and I told you it was a High Explosive Anti Tank (Heat) round, the caption identifies it as Armour Piercing, which by the way it is (you can tell by the tip) the colour indictates Non DU.
Are DU rounds being used ??, truth be told I dont know .. and neither do you as you have made the claim on the thread but havent provided one link to back up your claim .. Why Not ?? .. just like you cant provide a link to the claim you made about the supposed comment I made about A 767 impact .. Why Not ?? .. you seem very good at asking me questions but a reluctance to answer mine ..
NOTE .. I DID answer your question above, I truly dont know, but then I am not the one alleging that they are by voicing an opinion with no proof .. AM I ??
I debunked your GBU 28 claim with a google search but as Uranium is 1.7 denser than lead how far do you think that an aircraft carrying one is going to get (assuming it gets off the ground ??) carrying a bomb filled with 630lbs of it ?? .. Just a thought.
you tell me... they brought 100 of them on two Airbuses. as I said if this is the case.. this is bloomin' atrocious...
my references I told you already come from Dr. Doug Rokke.. one of his latest videos is on YouTube..
http://www.youtube.com/v/P-8PlJVhogs
what do you mean you don't know if DU is being used.. ?
Oh dear.
I cant find one confirmation on the Net that Israel is Using DU rounds.
I googled "Confirmation of Israel using Depleted Uranium Ammunition"
All that came up was a website from the "Vermonters for a Just Peace in Palestine" which said there were REPORTS of Israel using DU, Poison Gas and White Phosphorous.
Not a confirmation, just REPORTS.
Prove me wrong SJ or are we having another GBU 28 episode ??
Standing by for your link ....
look harder.. and try.. http://www.sundayherald.com/32522
I debunked your GBU 28 claim with a google search but as Uranium is 1.7 denser than lead how far do you think that an aircraft carrying one is going to get (assuming it gets off the ground ??) carrying a bomb filled with 630lbs of it ?? .. Just a thought.
By this statement I would have to believe that 630 lbs of uranium is heavier
than 630lbs of lead. Curious!!
or you can try this one.... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2047373,00.html
or this one which reads...
" One way to make a bunker buster heavier while maintaining a narrow cross-sectional area is to use a metal that is heavier than steel (http://science.howstuffworks.com/iron.htm). Lead is heavier, but it is so soft that it is useless in a penetrator -- lead would deform or disintegrate when the bomb hits the target. One material that is both extremely strong and extremely dense is depleted uranium. DU is the material of choice for penetrating weapons because of these properties. For example, the M829 is an armor-piercing "dart" fired from the cannon of an M1 tank (http://science.howstuffworks.com/m1-tank.htm). These 10-pound (4.5-kg) darts are 2 feet (61 cm) long, approximately 1 inch (2.5 cm) in diameter and leave the barrel of the tank's cannon traveling at over 1 mile (1.6 km) per second. The dart has so much kinetic energy and is so strong that it is able to pierce the strongest armor plating.
Depleted uranium is a by-product of the nuclear power (http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear.htm) industry. Natural uranium from a mine contains two isotopes: U-235 and U-238. The U-235 is what is needed to produce nuclear power (see How Nuclear Power Plants Work (http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear-power.htm) for details), so the uranium is refined to extract the U-235 and create "enriched uranium." The U-238 that is left over is known as "depleted uranium."
http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster.htm
you tell me... they brought 100 of them on two Airbuses. as I said if this is the case.. this is bloomin' atrocious...
my references I told you already come from Dr. Doug Rokke.. one of his latest videos is on YouTube..
http://www.youtube.com/v/P-8PlJVhogs
what do you mean you don't know if DU is being used.. ?
Well I am not in Israel so I dont know what ammo is being used do I ??, they may or may not be using them .. Simple. You are the one saying it had been confirmed (see my previous post) .. where is your proof that they definetly are, I just checked an anti Israeli website which said they were REPORTS etc, not confirmation.
And I will tell you about GBU 28 .. put one on a jet that is filled with 630lb of DU and it will barely take off with that much weight on one side, put two on and it will have a hard time getting airborne in the hot air in that part of the world (Colder air is denser and burns better in a jet engine = more thrust), plus for every pound of ordanance it means less fuel (= less range.)
And Airbuses are passenger aircraft with a limited freight facility, weapons are classed as DAC (Dangerous Air Cargo) and the regulations on their carriage are strict, maybe they did but I wouldnt want to fly on that aircraft. In fact not sure that Airbuses would be allowed to carry them but maybe so.
Any chance yopu could provide a link for your claims as I am off shift now and off to bed .. only fair SJ as I have answered your queries.
Oh dear.
I cant find one confirmation on the Net that Israel is Using DU rounds.
I googled "Confirmation of Israel using Depleted Uranium Ammunition"
All that came up was a website from the "Vermonters for a Just Peace in Palestine" which said there were REPORTS of Israel using DU, Poison Gas and White Phosphorous.
Not a confirmation, just REPORTS.
Prove me wrong SJ or are we having another GBU 28 episode ??
Standing by for your link ....
there is plenty of confirmation the US uses them quite readily all the time.. israel was using them back in 1973 and now.. people "in the know" are claiming that the photos PROVE that they are using DU weapons... that's what I know... and what you're in denial about.
By this statement I would have to believe that 630 lbs of uranium is heavier
than 630lbs of lead. Curious!!
Well Uranium has 1.7 times the density of lead .. that means its heavier.
See your point but density means its heavier.
no.. you're not a pathologist.. but, the fella in the first video of the thread sounded pretty sure of what he was seeing and smelling.. phosphorus.
there is plenty of confirmation the US uses them quite readily all the time.. israel was using them back in 1973 and now.. people "in the know" are claiming that the photos PROVE that they are using DU weapons... that's what I know... and what you're in denial about.
1. I am not in denial, I simply dont know for a fact they are being used, they may well be or they may not, I just dont know. And your opinion doesnt PROVE anything SJ .. Where are the links you base your opinion on ??
2. You now say those "in the know" .. who then ?? .. you claimed that several sources had confirmed Israel were being used but have yet to provide ONE link to prove it .. so I googled and found only site posting it was REPORTEd that they were being used .. now apparently those "in the know" say Israel are using them .. wheres the Link ??
SJ just because you say something doesnt make it right and you pose questions at me that I have answered (proof is there for all to read) yet you STILL havent posted a link to the claims you accused me of saying about the 767 etc etc .. Why Not.
And I know Explosive Colour Codes and if you check the Web most Countries use Blue for TRAINING rounds .. :lol: .. its still an arnour piercing round but its a training one !! .. the RAF use 4kg practice bombs on Bombing ranges and they are BLUE .. Drill missiles (training air to air missiles) are painted BLUE .. and the Concrete bombs dropped by the Tornado for paractice are coloured BLUE.
[quote=sjwahwah]or this one which reads...
" One way to make a bunker buster heavier while maintaining a narrow cross-sectional area is to use a metal that is heavier than steel (http://science.howstuffworks.com/iron.htm). Lead is heavier, but it is so soft that it is useless in a penetrator -- lead would deform or disintegrate when the bomb hits the target. One material that is both extremely strong and extremely dense is depleted uranium. DU is the material of choice for penetrating weapons because of these properties. For example, the M829 is an armor-piercing "dart" fired from the cannon of an M1 tank (http://science.howstuffworks.com/m1-tank.htm). These 10-pound (4.5-kg) darts are 2 feet (61 cm) long, approximately 1 inch (2.5 cm) in diameter and leave the barrel of the tank's cannon traveling at over 1 mile (1.6 km) per second. The dart has so much kinetic energy and is so strong that it is able to pierce the strongest armor plating.
Depleted uranium is a by-product of the nuclear power (http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear.htm) industry. Natural uranium from a mine contains two isotopes: U-235 and U-238. The U-235 is what is needed to produce nuclear power (see How Nuclear Power Plants Work (http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear-power.htm) for details), so the uranium is refined to extract the U-235 and create "enriched uranium." The U-238 that is left over is known as "depleted uranium."
The M289 is an Anti tank round, not an air delivered bomb. Total U turn from your original point. You claimed GBU 28 was a DU round and I showed it wasnt, in the same post I said that DU is mostly used against armoured vehicles which most anti tank rounds are. Round in Circles I think.
no.. you're not a pathologist.. but, the fella in the first video of the thread sounded pretty sure of what he was seeing and smelling.. phosphorus.
Quite possible. But lest face it very few know exactly what is going on out there and what is and isnt being used.
As you havent got the courtesy to answer my queries SJ I will leave you to it ok ??
Take Care.
You know fine... your dismissal of the facts of 9/11... you think a 757 hit the pentagon... if you don't then say so!
you're claiming nobody used or uses DU weapons.. you couldn't be more wrong... now let's go back to the original post of the thread... "The shipments of weaponry that have passed through this country last week are GBU 28 bunker busters that are basically uranium warheads.... if this is the case.. our government is commiting war crimes and aiding and abetting America who is also commiting war crimes."
so far you've not posted any proof they're not.
look harder.. and try.. http://www.sundayherald.com/32522
Ok Dr Doug says they are being used, read the whole article and he doesnt supply one bit of proof just opinions.
Show me an empty shell case .. thats proof.
Show me an Israeli Serviceman saying .. "we are using DU ammo" .. thats proof.
But because you, Dr Doug and the Sunday Herald SAY they are being used is not proof .. sorry its an OPINION.
I say I am the love child of Elvis .. does that make it true ??
Ta Ta.
well. I would tend to believe someone of his credentials rather than yourself who is not an expert in the field.. does that make any sense? probably not. no matter.
most of all... why are all these veterans now disabled?? how can they continue using these weapons if they might be killing our own soldiers???
oh yea.. that's right.. the UN says they shouldn't be using them anymore.. but, you were in Gulf 1.. were you using them or not? I would like to think that if you're firing WMD's at folk you'd know what was in them at least?
You know fine... your dismissal of the facts of 9/11... you think a 757 hit the pentagon... if you don't then say so!
you're claiming nobody used or uses DU weapons.. you couldn't be more wrong... now let's go back to the original post of the thread... "The shipments of weaponry that have passed through this country last week are GBU 28 bunker busters that are basically uranium warheads.... if this is the case.. our government is commiting war crimes and aiding and abetting America who is also commiting war crimes."
so far you've not posted any proof they're not.
Here we go ..
Where did 911 come from ?? .. what has that got to do with this ??
As for GBU 28 .. I posted an internet article on the structure, development and operational use of GBU 28 and they are not DU rounds, they had them on the airfield I was on in the Gulf and they dont contain DU, they are basically a "dumb bomb" filled with high explosive with a Laser Seeker head allowing it to steer to the target under guidance from the drop aircraft. You are the only one saying they are DU and you couldnt tell the difference between a GBU 28, JP233, DURANDAL or a Maverick (which I can) dont take my word for it .. Google like I did.
And now I have to prove that they are NOT using the DU Weapons, come on SJ .. you have made a claim that you cant prove, I searched myself and found no confirmation on the net. YOU started the thread, YOU made the claims and havent provided PROOF, Dr Dougs article doesnt prove anything, it just makes the accusation. And now we are back to 911 (?!) while you avoid my reasonable requests to back up the things you claim I have said, I had the courtesy to answer your queries, why wont you provide a link to the things you claim I said about the 767 etc etc, Bottom line is you cant prove your claims and oopps you came up agiainst someone who knows a little something about air launched munitions.
This is your thread SJ .. prove your case.
try reading the thread.... I doubt you know more than someone who was cleaning up the radioactive mess you left behind in the desert. I don't claim I know more than you or joe forum poster but, I can read the signs....
you know fine where the 9/11 comes from... "our deluded little theory".... where's the plane? how bigs the hole in the pentagon again?
doesn't matter... how many buddies do you have with Gulf War Syndrome.. have they found any proof yet? if we aren't going to question these things.. what will we do?
oh yea.. that's right.. the UN says they shouldn't be using them anymore.. but, you were in Gulf 1.. were you using them or not? I would like to think that if you're firing WMD's at folk you'd know what was in them at least?
1. The UN say a lot but I havent heard that, DU is a legal weapon.
2. DU isnt a WMD (do you know what a WMD is ??) and I had in depth knowledge of every weapon employed so I DID know what we were employing, as for my actions in GW1 that I am afraid is Need to Know .. and you dont Need to Know.
3. Dont turn this back on me SJ, if you read back you will find I answered your queries but you havent answered mine, and I think that you have made a point in your first post I knew was incorrect which i then double checked on the net and posted the correct description, you havent made your case in my eyes, you have made an accusation that is proved according to you by Dr Doug saying Israel are using them.
yes.. my defination of a WMD is any weapon that kill more than one person at one time.. anything less is called a gun.
http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,57959,00.html
more people who believe DU is in the GBU series.
so were you using DU in Gulf 1 or not? surely you know don't you?
I'm afraid I cannot prove anything... the thread was to provoke thought about the subject considering what may be going on here....
yes.. my defination of a WMD is any weapon that kill more than one person at one time.. anything less is called a gun.
http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,57959,00.html
more people who believe DU is in the GBU series.
so were you using DU in Gulf 1 or not? surely you know don't you?
I'm afraid I cannot prove anything... the thread was to provoke thought about the subject considering what may be going on here....
Well your defintion of a WMD is wrong .. a grenade isnt a WMD .. neither is a 1000lb Bomb .. if a Sidewinder Missile takes out a plane with a two man crew does that make it a WMD ?? .. by your defintion Chickens are a WMD because of Salmonella.
Yes I do know what I used in GW1, if you dont know what I used that means you are not meant to know. I cant tell you even if I wanted to (which I dont), Thats my final comment on that.
I know you cant prove it, that was my point SJ, you can produce all the links of people who believe it till the cows comes home but lets face it only the Israelis know, and they arent telling, but the photos you produced show blue bands on the shells and that is the universal colour for training rounds, I double checked that but suspected it initially.
Regarding you comment about what I allegedly said about the 767 etc, I would like to make the point that I answered your queries but you didnt return that courtesy, and you still havent.
actually.. considering bird flu.. yep.. weapon!;)
Shock Horror .. Agreement on Something .. :eek: :lol:
I am bugging out now.
pultneytooner
30-Jul-06, 02:37
By this statement I would have to believe that 630 lbs of uranium is heavier
than 630lbs of lead. Curious!! LOL, gleeber2, 630lbs of lead is exactly equivelant to 630lbs of uranium or 630 pounds of feathers.........:lol:
LOL, gleeber2, 630lbs of lead is exactly equivelant to 630lbs of uranium or 630 pounds of feathers.........:lol:
Good Spot .. ;)
It was a long day !!
Praise the Lord and pass the Ammunition.[lol]
Good Spot .. ;)
It was a long day !!
Even if your version of physics were true. a 600lb bomb would only weigh 1020lbs at 1.7 density. Pretty small load for a brand new bomber, don't you think? Too much bull's excretia my friend.
Even if your version of physics were true. a 600lb bomb would only weigh 1020lbs at 1.7 density. Pretty small load for a brand new bomber, don't you think? Too much bull's excretia my friend.
Your Figures are correct about the weight of explosive but what is it wrapped in .. Cling Film ?? .. I think you will find that the casing, tail unit and Laser Seeker Head push the weight up a bit, indeed more than the weight of the explosive.
As for the Load ..
I pointed out that in the desert with high air temperatures that aircraft do not produce as much thrust as they do in lower temperatures as the denser or colder air is the better it burns and the more thrust it produces which means a higher all up weight for the aircraft at takeoff. As an aircraft can only operate to a maximum all up weight dependant on the thrust available to get airborne this dictates the load of patload/fuel available. If the target is closer then you can sacrifice fuel for payload, if it is further away then the opposite applies. Air to Air refuelling can sometimes allow you to launch and then top up but you wouldnt want to scrub because of a tanker fault (or indeed a probe failure on the strike jet) it is better to be able to get there and back unaided.
You would also be surprised at how little payload some strike aircraft are designed to carry as precision munitions are much more accurate and do away with the "one more for luck" philosphy of unguided munitions. The Stealth Fighter for instance only carries a maximum of two bombs. The Tornado GR4 carries its ordance under the fuselage as the wing hard points outboard are used for Chaff/Flare and Ecm Pods with the inboards for external Fuel Tanks.
Maybe you should know what you are talking about before throwing "bulls excretia" remarks about .. :roll:
Even if your version of physics were true. a 600lb bomb would only weigh 1020lbs at 1.7 density. Pretty small load for a brand new bomber, don't you think? Too much bull's excretia my friend.
One point I didnt make clear is that the GBU 28 isnt a 600lb bomb, it contains 630lb of explosive .. PLUS the casing, tail unit and seeker head.
Thank you.
Which makes a total weight of almost 5000lb for the weapon, (check my second post which I pulled off the net) thats 2270 kg, and at 19 feet long it isnt a "light load" for any aircraft, let alone one operating in Hot climates.
Which makes a total weight of almost 5000lb for the weapon, (check my second post which I pulled off the net) thats 2270 kg, and at 19 feet long it isnt a "light load" for any aircraft, let alone one operating in Hot climates.
4,414lb to be precise.
They used plenty of them in Iraq and I don't think Lebanon is any hotter.
From this mornings Guardian (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1833616,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12):
Concern has been further heightened by the delivery to Israel by the US of at least 100 GBU-28 'bunker-buster' bombs containing depleted uranium warheads for use against targets in Lebanon.
Maybe you should know what you are talking about before throwing "bulls excretia" remarks about .. :roll:
600lbs or 620 0r 630 what real difference doea the minutae make to my original statement? To state that 630 lbs of uranium is heavier than 630lbs of lead is arrant nonsense and indicates the depth of your intellect rather than your carefully gained "facts". This mistake at such a primary school level which you then defended indicates to me why I find your posts so arrogantly annoying and why I tend to flick past them because my ecretia indicator flashes red to me. If you wish to take the role of well informed pedant, then you should be sure of your facts and accept with humility when some-one points out your mistakes.
and this weekend there has been two more shipments of weapons headed to Israel through Prestwick.... including one today!
a wonder how the Abrams tank can get about that desert with all that heavy DU armour plus carrying such heavyDU weapons?:roll:
I don’t see what all the fuss about Israel using Dep U munitions is – if Hezbollah had them they would use them as well.
600lbs or 620 0r 630 what real difference doea the minutae make to my original statement? To state that 630 lbs of uranium is heavier than 630lbs of lead is arrant nonsense and indicates the depth of your intellect rather than your carefully gained "facts". This mistake at such a primary school level which you then defended indicates to me why I find your posts so arrogantly annoying and why I tend to flick past them because my ecretia indicator flashes red to me. If you wish to take the role of well informed pedant, then you should be sure of your facts and accept with humility when some-one points out your mistakes.
I did accept with humility Gleber2, if you read back I posted that it was a "Good Spot .. its been a long day" .. I would say that that is accepting with humility.
As for the rest look at what you posted when you assumed the bombweight was 600lb, something YOU came up with on your own and then proceeded to make out I said it while you accuse me of talking excretia.
So you missed my post acknowledging your spot and then tell me I should accept with humility (when I already have), you then post about a 600lb bomb when no one else said that (it was your assumption, I said the WARHEAD was 630lb, you even got the weight wrong) and in the same sentence you accuse me of talking excretia ??
You need to check your intellect before criticising anyone's elses, and check your excretia indicator as well because if it wasnt flashing when YOU were typing .. its broken.
And as for your comments on the "Can we agree to disagree" thread .. regrading what you wrote here .. does the word HYPOCRITE mean anything ??
I don’t see what all the fuss about Israel using Dep U munitions is – if Hezbollah had them they would use them as well.
Too right they would, and they are just a Terrorist group not even a country, now do the Orgers understand why Israel is out to and must destroy them
My post was more about the futility of the situation rather than a rallying call for our Zionist friends Golach.
pultneytooner
30-Jul-06, 19:58
Too right they would, and they are just a Terrorist group not even a country, now do the Orgers understand why Israel is out to and must destroy them No I'm afraid because hezbollah are a terrorist organisation and israel are defending themselves, (supposedly), Israel are supposed to take the high moral ground otherwise they are as bad as hezbollah or hamas.
An eye for an eye is not a concept I am comfortable with.
I did accept with humility Gleber2, if you read back I posted that it was a "Good Spot .. its been a long day" .. I would say that that is accepting with humility.
As for the rest look at what you posted when you assumed the bombweight was 600lb, something YOU came up with on your own and then proceeded to make out I said it while you accuse me of talking excretia.
So you missed my post acknowledging your spot and then tell me I should accept with humility (when I already have), you then post about a 600lb bomb when no one else said that (it was your assumption, I said the WARHEAD was 630lb, you even got the weight wrong) and in the same sentence you accuse me of talking excretia ??
You need to check your intellect before criticising anyone's elses, and check your excretia indicator as well because if it wasnt flashing when YOU were typing .. its broken.
And as for your comments on the "Can we agree to disagree" thread .. regrading what you wrote here .. does the word HYPOCRITE mean anything ??
In all humility I have never encountered an orger so quick and ready to be wound up. Keep it up.
agreed.. sadly they probably would use them if available... but, as for now apparently they are not and Israel is... on civilians.
An eye for an eye is not a concept I am comfortable with.
Why not, it has been the way of the world since time began, and Israel is not looking for an eye for an eye, they are there to anihilate the Hezbollah for once and for all, and I say good luck Israel, Hezbollah are terrorists
pultneytooner
30-Jul-06, 20:21
Why not, it has been the way of the world since time began, and Israel is not looking for an eye for an eye, they are there to anihilate the Hezbollah for once and for all, and I say good luck Israel, Hezbollah are terrorists Hezbollah, are, terrorists but when israel commits as many war crimes then they, in my eyes are terrorists also.
You can't kill civillians and then say it was all in the cause of the fight against terrorism.
You can't kill civillians and then say it was all in the cause of the fight against terrorism.
Why not, everybody else does?
Too right they would, and they are just a Terrorist group not even a country, now do the Orgers understand why Israel is out to and must destroy them
No, Hezbollah is not a terrorist group, they are a legitimate resistance movement. They formed in 1982 with the declared aim of fighting Israels occupation of Lebanon.
As well as their military wing they are a political party holding 11% of seats in the Lebanese parliament. The group currently operates at least 4 hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and 2 agricultural centres.
All the Arab world class them as a resistance movement, the EU class them as a resistance movement, a recent poll showed that 87% of the population of Lebanon including 74% of the Christian population consider them a legitimate resistance movement.
Only Israel, America and Canada classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation.
pultneytooner
30-Jul-06, 22:29
Why not, everybody else does?
Tht's becuse I m not everyone else
one mans terrorist is the other mans freedom fighter
Only Israel, America and Canada classify Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation.
And me and a few others Fred[disgust]
And me and a few others Fred[disgust]
Golach, you know full well that nobody who attacks America, Britain, Israel or any of their allies can never be a Terrorist, Only those who attack the enemies of those Counties are Terrorists and then it is all the fault of America and it's allies.
You really must pay more attention to the Indoctrination Sessions or you will be banished to the Camps for Ideological Re-Education.
Should you still refuse to refrain from your reactionary ways you will be incarcerated in the State Mental Institution as a disruptive influence.
But don’t worry Golach, you won’t be lonely, there will be thousands of us there.
Should, however, you recover from your deviant ways you will be expected to make Pilgrimage to the Holy of Holies and Worship at the Shrine of the preserved God of all right, sorry, left thinking Politicians,
If the truth be known, they made such a mess of the economy that they didn’t get enough in the whip round to pay for a State Funeral.
See you in the State Mental Institution, Golach. They’ve failed to indoctrinate us since the days of Stalin so I don’t think they stand much chance now.
Remember, “Che lives!”, he was seen having a beer with Elvis two days ago in Watten.
Golach, you know full well that nobody who attacks America, Britain, Israel or any of their allies can never be a Terrorist, Only those who attack the enemies of those Counties are Terrorists and then it is all the fault of America and it's allies.
You really must pay more attention to the Indoctrination Sessions or you will be banished to the Camps for Ideological Re-Education.
Should you still refuse to refrain from your reactionary ways you will be incarcerated in the State Mental Institution as a disruptive influence.
But don’t worry Golach, you won’t be lonely, there will be thousands of us there.
Should, however, you recover from your deviant ways you will be expected to make Pilgrimage to the Holy of Holies and Worship at the Shrine of the preserved God of all right, sorry, left thinking Politicians,
If the truth be known, they made such a mess of the economy that they didn’t get enough in the whip round to pay for a State Funeral.
See you in the State Mental Institution, Golach. They’ve failed to indoctrinate us since the days of Stalin so I don’t think they stand much chance now.
Remember, “Che lives!”, he was seen having a beer with Elvis two days ago in Watten.
Jaws many thanks for you warning, I will try to change my ways, one question, when I get sent to the State Mental Institution, will I be made to wear a Star of David on my sleeve?
And me and a few others Fred[disgust]
That's because you base your judgement on prejudice not reality.
How many films, books or even news reports have there been which portray Arabs in a good light? Even now Israeli soldiers go into Palestine to "arrest" palestinians while Palestinians and Lebonese "kidnap" Israeli soldiers.
Take a look at the pictures coming out of Lebanon of the recent Israeli attrocities then read the history books again and see all the other Israeli attrocities, all the injustice and inhumanity the Palestinians have suffered at their hands. Cut through your prejudices and see Arabs as equals, as humans not sub humans, then see who the terrorists really are.
The GBU 28 delivery landing at Prestwick was apparently on chartered A310 Airbuses. The Airbus 310 has an empty weight of 178,000lbs. It's maximum take off weight is 361,600lbs. The GBU 28 weighs 4,414lbs. And the Airbus A310 is used by several militarys including Germany and Chile.
361,000 - 178,000 = 183,600
4,414 x 50 = 220,700
strange math going on.
can't find anything about the cargo conversion weight capacities of the Airbus A310... if anyone can please post.
The company involved in these flights, Atlas Air Inc, use a fleet of converted Boeing 747 Jumbo jets.
http://www.worldairroutes.com/Atlas.html
Not A310.
Empty weight is exactly that - empty.
Maximum weight includes cargo/passengers AND FUEL.
Redo your sums.....
report i saw said airbus a310... thanks for info.
Most reporters can't tell a A310 from a skip.........
oh great.... found another report from the herald http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/66809.html
that they were Boeing 747 200's from Kalitta Air Aircraft Cargo company...
if it was a Boeing 747-200 I have found on Boeings' website that it could "easily transport freight weighing 90,000kgs. (198,416lbs.) across the Atlantic or across the United States." still can't find the max cargo weight...
http://www.kalittaair.com/Aircraft.htm
Max Landing Wt..... 630,000
Max T/O ............... 833,000
Stage III .............. 833,000
Max Payload ......... 248,510 (Nose Loader) 253,360 (Side Loader)
Zero Fuel Wt.......... 590,000
thanks.. madpict.. makes alot more sense!:)
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.