View Full Version : Careless driving
I noticed the second vehicle that had overturned today in less that a week just hope the drivers have escaped unscathed.
I am quite amazed that although the roads are quiet here there are still people that have little regard for their own lives. let alone that of others.
Totally agree Liz, they seem to use the A9/A99 as some sort of race track...I can be trundling along at 50/60mph and there are loads of people itching to get past me......Why????
What we need up here is more traffic cops to run the daft so and so's off the roads for good!!
C3....[evil]
Totally agree Liz, they seem to use the A9/A99 as some sort of race track...I can be trundling along at 50/60mph and there are loads of people itching to get past me......Why????
What we need up here is more traffic cops to run the daft so and so's off the roads for good!!
C3....[evil]
Seems fair enough, it's the ones that trundle along at 40 with huge tailbacks, that need the coppers up their b's
John Little
10-Oct-10, 09:16
I've often thought a separate highway patrol would be a good idea. Problem is with this sort of driving is that it's all over the place. On country lanes murder is done but it's called careless driving.
But if you choose to do 60mph down a narrow winding lane and kill someone when you hit them, ain't that murder- or manslaughter at the least?
Seems fair enough, it's the ones that trundle along at 40 with huge tailbacks, that need the coppers up their b's
When i'm out in my car on a country road i do 50/60 depends on the road. 40 is too slow and this causes frustration which leads to accidents. Too slow and too fast are equal in the accident statitics.
There is a big difference between speeding and driving carelessly. Empty road + speed does not equal careless. Slow moving ditherers not concentrating does. Having driven all over, the standard of driving in Caithness is very good even if people do tend to drive quickly. This tends to mean that they are concentrating at a higher level and are more alert. Just because someone has left the road does not mean they are being careless either, perhaps they had to swerve to avoid something.
There is a big difference between speeding and driving carelessly. Empty road + speed does not equal careless. Slow moving ditherers not concentrating does. Having driven all over, the standard of driving in Caithness is very good even if people do tend to drive quickly. This tends to mean that they are concentrating at a higher level and are more alert. Just because someone has left the road does not mean they are being careless either, perhaps they had to swerve to avoid something.
The only difference between Speeding and Driving Carelessly is that Speeding is Driving Dangerously and is a far Greater Crime.
There is no reason to Drive faster then the Speed Limit and if a Driver is caught speeding more then once they should lose their Licence.
To say that because a Driver is speeding then they must be concentrating at a Higher level is just so much Rubbish. This might be true if your name is Jenson Button but the average driver, no way.
Drivers who who drive faster than the Speed Limit are Not Good Drivers, they a Danger to all road users and they should not be on the road.
There is a big difference between speeding and driving carelessly. Empty road + speed does not equal careless. Slow moving ditherers not concentrating does. Having driven all over, the standard of driving in Caithness is very good even if people do tend to drive quickly. This tends to mean that they are concentrating at a higher level and are more alert. Just because someone has left the road does not mean they are being careless either, perhaps they had to swerve to avoid something.
Your last sentence reveals the illusion you’re living under – or driving with. When someone has had to swerve to avoid something this leads to question whether they were going too fast in the first place, or didn’t appreciate the type of country the road goes through.
Your argument that, “Empty road + speed does not equal careless”, is a fallacy. How can you be sure the road is empty? Have you never come across a farmer turning in or out of a field in a tractor? Have you never come across a farmer moving a herd of cows down the road to an adjacent field? Have you never come across a fully grown Red Deer running across the road? Have you never come across loose sheep wandering all over the road? Have you never come across a stationary vehicle at the side of the road after a bend where the driver is having a conversation on their mobile phone? These are all examples of some of the hazards I know people have come across while driving in Caithness.
Your assertion that higher concentration means drivers are more alert and are thus more able to drive quickly is debatable. I would rather rely on my years of experience than any sort of adrenaline rush.
Many experienced drivers drive defensively because they have an appreciation of some of the hazards on our roads even in Caithness. If you want to drive fast you are welcome to overtake me because quite frankly if you’re going to hit something or someone I would rather be a witness than a participant.
Scarybiscuits03
10-Oct-10, 18:14
Totally agree Liz, they seem to use the A9/A99 as some sort of race track...I can be trundling along at 50/60mph and there are loads of people itching to get past me......Why????
What we need up here is more traffic cops to run the daft so and so's off the roads for good!!
C3....[evil]
Maybe they have the skitters and are desperately needing to reach a toilet![lol]
highland red
10-Oct-10, 18:37
I've already posted a couple of things on the forum re: driving standards (or lack of them), so I don't expect any change out of this.
Caithness is "blighted", by boy/girl racers. Only yesterday, on the way back from Thurso, if I hadn't hit my brakes and made room, I'm afraid we would have had a couple of fatalities in the form of an idiot (and pillion) that overtook me on a stretch of road where oncoming vehicles are hidden from view in the undulations of the road, and very nearly hit an oncoming vehicle.
I get really sick of hearing the pathetic roar of souped - up Corsas, fiestas, peugeots etc.
Someone I know was working in Thurso for a week and was lodging in one of the town's many good hotels, but gave up and moved to Watten so that he could get a decent nights sleep: fed up with listening to the "racers" screaming up and down the town.
To be honest I really don't think that the Police do enough to change the situation either. It's not as if it couldn't be done. There are "finite" racers in both towns and with a proper initiative from the Police, the "racers" would start to tot up enough points to make them think twice about the way they drive.
Believe me, our family is no stranger to tragedy in the form of fatalities from road crashes, so I'm afraid that I can't see anything else but the negative in poor/reckless/inconsiderate and dangerous driving.
I simply do not understand why so many drivers are in such a hurry. Where are they going? What is the urgency? The legal max. on most roads is 60 but if you have any sense, which many don't seem to, you drive according to the road and at a speed that can deal with unexpected hazards as Gronnuck says.
Some boys cycling on the pavement in Wick yesterday - one rides into the road just in front of my car, didn't look. Good thing I was driving slowly. Same day driving Wick to Watten, bright yellow car coming towards me that you couldn't possibly fail to see yet the car behind me decides to overtake. I braked so they just missed. Finished up nearly a nervous wreck :( .
Hardly ever drive in a restricted speed area without someone either speeding past just before and then braking, or overtaking before the end of it. What's so important that they can't wait a second or two?
What are the rules for learner motorbikes? Does the instructor wear an L plate? Driving through Bower the other day a bike came straight onto the main road from the Gillock road, didn't stop - followed by another and another. All wearing L plates. Not one stopped at the junction. Drove at 50 most of the way to Castletown and carried on in the 30 limit hardly slowing. Front one kept looking back so I wondered if he was an instructor? If so, he could do with a few lessons.
I was out testing my new E-type the other day, no one about so I opened her up a bit. I came across a tractor with a couple of Crofters sitting in a field entrance, the driver looked me in the eye and pulled out.
Well, I had no choice but to make the big left turn at over 100mph. It was a catastrophe; car rolled over and over, burst into flames and exploded. One crofter said to the other " well Tam, it looks like we got out of that field just in time" :Razz
The instructor should'nt have L plates and would be at the rear of the 3 bikes to keep a eye on them.
Could be 3 Learners on 125cc or lower bikes
Scarybiscuits03
10-Oct-10, 20:44
I was out testing my new E-type the other day, no one about so I opened her up a bit. I came across a tractor with a couple of Crofters sitting in a field entrance, the driver looked me in the eye and pulled out.
Well, I had no choice but to make the big left turn at over 100mph. It was a catastrophe; car rolled over and over, burst into flames and exploded. One crofter said to the other " well Tam, it looks like we got out of that field just in time" :Razz
Hee hee - that actually did happen to a car I was in!!!.....Wasna going quite that fast but a tractor mannie looked at us and pulled out so we ended up smashed against his big wheel!!!.......Needless to say I got outta the car and called him every bad name I could think of at the time![lol]
Even people trained in advanced driving crash
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11187747
A car can be overturned at low speeds,crashes are happening everyday,such is life,nobody is perfect!
True Story.
Based in West mids as fire fighter, had a fireman who had transferred up from London - still had his Mrs down there and would drive back after shift; 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off system.. He was telling me and Mrs Beks that he had been driving the A3400 near Wootton Wawen, and upon approaching a bend he had heard a voice telling him to slow down; he did, but nothing around the corner, just open road.
A couple of shifts later we had a message that he was seriously injured and was in Hospital in Stratford. We went straight over - he was in a bad way, we spoke to a copper who was there and we're told he had gone into a tractor on a bend at Wootton Wawen..
That was 1985 and still gives me the shivers..
The only difference between Speeding and Driving Carelessly is that Speeding is Driving Dangerously and is a far Greater Crime.
There is no reason to Drive faster then the Speed Limit and if a Driver is caught speeding more then once they should lose their Licence.
To say that because a Driver is speeding then they must be concentrating at a Higher level is just so much Rubbish. This might be true if your name is Jenson Button but the average driver, no way.
Drivers who who drive faster than the Speed Limit are Not Good Drivers, they a Danger to all road users and they should not be on the road.
What a load of rubbish!
I was out testing my new E-type the other day, no one about so I opened her up a bit. I came across a tractor with a couple of Crofters sitting in a field entrance, the driver looked me in the eye and pulled out.
Well, I had no choice but to make the big left turn at over 100mph. It was a catastrophe; car rolled over and over, burst into flames and exploded. One crofter said to the other " well Tam, it looks like we got out of that field just in time" :Razz
Haha love it!!
What a load of rubbish!
Sounds like the words of a Boy Racer who has just passed his test and thinks he knows it all!!!
Take care my friend, you never know whats round the corner!!!!
C3.....:eek::eek:
Was it actually boy racers that crashed?
The instructor should'nt have L plates and would be at the rear of the 3 bikes to keep a eye on them.
Could be 3 Learners on 125cc or lower bikes
Interesting - didn't look as if they had learnt much so far.
DeHaviLand
11-Oct-10, 11:00
What are the rules for learner motorbikes? Does the instructor wear an L plate? Driving through Bower the other day a bike came straight onto the main road from the Gillock road, didn't stop - followed by another and another. All wearing L plates. Not one stopped at the junction. Drove at 50 most of the way to Castletown and carried on in the 30 limit hardly slowing. Front one kept looking back so I wondered if he was an instructor? If so, he could do with a few lessons.
Why would you expect the motorbikes to stop at that junction? As its a Give Way junction, and not a Stop junction, they didnt need to stop. Slow down, look right and if its clear, proceed with your left turn.
Front one kept looking back? Thats called a lifesaver. Seems like they werent doing a hell of lot wrong, maybe you just dont like bikers. And an instructor will indeed wear an L plate, but he'll be at the back.
instructors should not have an L plate on their bike because it is a road traffic offence, only the learner should.
I always thought that an Instructor in charge of Learner's on Motor Bikes should be at the rear and wear a Reflective Jacket with the word "Instructor" in big letters across the back. I could be incorrect, if I am, can some one please advise.
DeHaviLand
11-Oct-10, 15:42
instructors should not have an L plate on their bike because it is a road traffic offence, only the learner should.
then you will no doubt be able to point me to the relative legislation, or have you just made this up?
Why would you expect the motorbikes to stop at that junction? As its a Give Way junction, and not a Stop junction, they didnt need to stop. Slow down, look right and if its clear, proceed with your left turn.
Front one kept looking back? Thats called a lifesaver. Seems like they werent doing a hell of lot wrong, maybe you just dont like bikers. And an instructor will indeed wear an L plate, but he'll be at the back.
Because I was approaching the junction along the main road on the same side as them so I slowed right down when the first one turned left in front of me and then had to wait for the other two. Given the speed that many vehicles go along that road, ignoring the 40 mph, any vehicle would wise to stop and move out very cautiously as you can't see far to the right. As it happens there was a nasty accident there recently when a car coming down that road didn't stop and went straight into a bike on the main road with fairly serious results. So, no, I don't have a problem with bikers. Only drivers who drive carelessly. Don't jump to conclusions :eek:
Seems to be some difference of opinion here about instructors and L plates. I thought the front one might be because he kept looking back so assumed he was keeping an eye on the others. What is a lifesaver?
What is a lifesaver?
Could not resist this :D
http://i53.tinypic.com/24e721v.jpg
Could not resist this :D
http://i53.tinypic.com/24e721v.jpg
So that's why they were following him :)
Aaldtimer
11-Oct-10, 17:11
Seems it can happen to anyone...:(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11513594
Seems it can happen to anyone...:(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11513594
Of course it can Aaldtimer, thats what a lot of people dont comprehend.....They get behind the wheel and feel that they are invincible and it will only happen to others and not them....How so wrong they are!!!!
C3....[disgust][disgust]
As a Doctor once told me a few years ago, "You know what we call Motor Cyclists here in Casuality, Doners"
I think that says it all.
I noticed the second vehicle that had overturned today in less that a week just hope the drivers have escaped unscathed.
I am quite amazed that although the roads are quiet here there are still people that have little regard for their own lives. let alone that of others.
Just wondered did you think that maybe it wasnt the driver fault oil on the road, dirt or water, you shouldnt judge until you no the full facts
northener
11-Oct-10, 21:28
I love these threads, I really do.....:Razz
Seems it can happen to anyone...:(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-11513594
A great guy, an EXCELLENT instructor and a lovely friend. Matt was a colleague of my
husband at The bike school and we miss him dreadfully already.
As an instructor Matt was well aware of the potential for accidents. I haver never ever heard any one of the guys talk like they think they are invincible...they are not wee boys, they teach and understand the risks very well indeed. We are all struggling to cope with our feelings at the moment.
To answer the question about the instructor... Usually you find the students and the instructor will be wearing high vis vests and all bikes will have L plates. By law the instructor does not need an L plate or a high vis vests, just normal bike gear and L plates for the students.
The instructor will generally be at the rear of CBT students so they can see what the students are doing and protect them from car drivers. This needs doing more often than you would think.
findam, both the cars had been rolled on bends that are locally known to be dangerous on days when there had been no rain,no sign of oil or mud.
luskentyre
11-Oct-10, 23:35
The only difference between Speeding and Driving Carelessly is that Speeding is Driving Dangerously and is a far Greater Crime.
There is no reason to Drive faster then the Speed Limit and if a Driver is caught speeding more then once they should lose their Licence.
To say that because a Driver is speeding then they must be concentrating at a Higher level is just so much Rubbish. This might be true if your name is Jenson Button but the average driver, no way.
Drivers who who drive faster than the Speed Limit are Not Good Drivers, they a Danger to all road users and they should not be on the road.
Well said. I think habitually speeding is a sign of arrogance as much as anything (as if the law does not apply to them) and an arrogant driver is definately not a good driver.
findam, both the cars had been rolled on bends that are locally known to be dangerous on days when there had been no rain,no sign of oil or mud.
sorry didnt realise you were at these accidents and witnessed them, we must also be on about different accidents also as it was very very bad rain on the day when i seen 2 cars off the road i followed one of these drivers into town and they were just in front of me doing less than 30, he was male in a very sporty car, so maybe you shouldn't stereo type people you dont know.
I do agree that there is quit a few idiots on the road im not disagreeing just dont believe that all should be put into categorises
Any accident you come away alive from is a good one.
I dont think that the speed limit can be the same for motor bikes as it is for cars ?? because even if im going over 60 mph they still overtake at some speed !!
Walter Ego
12-Oct-10, 08:40
I dont think that the speed limit can be the same for motor bikes as it is for cars ?? because even if im going over 60 mph they still overtake at some speed !!
That's either very witty or the irony is lost upon you......
Speed is not the only problem. The worst examples of driving I see invariably involve poor lane discipline on roundabouts. They seem to involve 4 x 4s more often than anything else which leads me to question whether the drivers can see properly. On Friday, Approaching the tesco roundabout in the outside lane there was a huge thing in the middle lane. We set off round the roundabout and as we approached the exit the car next to me exited into the outside lane almost sending me into the central reservation. The driver then approached the next roundabout in front of me, in the outside lane. Immediately on entering the roundabout the driver moved into the middle lane despite the fact that it was occupied already by a motorbike. The biker fortunately swerved into the inside lane and kept his balance but see if there was a wagon there he would have really struggled. I see this poor lane discipline in Inverness day after day. The Bruce once put a great big dent in a blokes fancy car door with his steel toe capped boots when he was almost sent into a ditch on a roundabout by a guy who decided he wanted to be in his lane despite a bright red big motorbike already being there.
Careless driving is not solely about speed. It can be an issue at lower speeds. Not checking mirrors, blind spots and not being properly aware can be a big problem too.
Speed is not the only problem. The worst examples of driving I see invariably involve poor lane discipline on roundabouts. They seem to involve 4 x 4s more often than anything else which leads me to question whether the drivers can see properly. On Friday, Approaching the tesco roundabout in the outside lane there was a huge thing in the middle lane. We set off round the roundabout and as we approached the exit the car next to me exited into the outside lane almost sending me into the central reservation. The driver then approached the next roundabout in front of me, in the outside lane. Immediately on entering the roundabout the driver moved into the middle lane despite the fact that it was occupied already by a motorbike. The biker fortunately swerved into the inside lane and kept his balance but see if there was a wagon there he would have really struggled. I see this poor lane discipline in Inverness day after day. The Bruce once put a great big dent in a blokes fancy car door with his steel toe capped boots when he was almost sent into a ditch on a roundabout by a guy who decided he wanted to be in his lane despite a bright red big motorbike already being there.
Careless driving is not solely about speed. It can be an issue at lower speeds. Not checking mirrors, blind spots and not being properly aware can be a big problem too.
Yes i too saw this in inverness near inshes tesco. A guy almost crashed into us trying to get in out lane while going round the roundabout. He did not look at his blind spot or in his mirrors as he never even knew we were there untill he had almost hit us. He had a white 2009 plate car that was covered in dents which shows we had a lucky escape from him.
Our car is a car that has been driven constantly above 80 before we got it. We always have our young son with us so neither of us go over 60 mph.
Just yesterday i was practising manuovers in our car and when coming up a road that had a whole line of parked cars on the other side of the road i go along as its clear but suddenly this black new civic comes racing down doing much more than 30. I have no spaces near me to pull into so he is forced to stop and pull in a spacr near me. Just five minutes later the same car goes racing past me when i am doing 30 on another road.
Its scary to think that if a child had run out on the road just what would have happened. its 30 and 60 for a reason. Some drivers forget this.
Just assume everyone on the road is an idiot and so are you. It's called defensive driving :Razz
Just assume everyone on the road is an idiot and so are you. It's called defensive driving :Razz
Thats what my partners is trying to teach me ;)
northener
12-Oct-10, 20:40
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/uk-motorists-forced-to-drive-straight-down-the-middle-of-the-road-200909082041/
"Therefore there is no additional risk of mortality from driving a rusty Renault 4 with no brakes down the centre of a winding mountain road at midnight with no headlights and a rabid goat in the passenger seat who keeps fiddling with the radio."
That's no way to talk about Mrs D :eek:
I've always enjoyed driving on the continent, I find it very easy to slip into the style of driving over there.
I do quite agree this 'right side of the road' thing is just soooooo last season.
Dog-eared
12-Oct-10, 21:23
I was in Inverness Tescos carpark and was having a snack and a read of the paper when there was an almighty thump,tinkle noise nearby and I looked over to see that a wee 4wd and a BIG 4wd had both reversed out from opposite parking spaces, right into the back of each other.
I assumed the big one didnt see the wee one in it's mirrors, but the wee one should've seen the big one !:lol:
Quality.
Sounds like the words of a Boy Racer who has just passed his test and thinks he knows it all!!!
Take care my friend, you never know whats round the corner!!!!
C3.....:eek::eek:
No completely wrong my friend, long time ago since i passed my test.
A slight thread drift now but back down in Mancunia some years ago there was a set or roads regularly used by boy racers to, well race. Nice long winding roads except one of them had a nasty kink at the bottom just prior to a roundabout.
I'm out walking doggy one day and I hear the razzing of a 'suped' up exhaust and coming down the road is a MkII Golf with all the bells and whistles on, lowered suspension, go faster stripes and some jazzy fog lights on (& lit during a nice bright sunny day).
As he tears past me the thought going through my mind was of not really having the time to apply first aid and hang around for the ambulance etc. however to my surprise there was no sounds of skidding wheels.............
....just the whump where he bottomed out before taking off over the roundabout. Then followed the sound of metal hitting tarmac and windows shattering as he returned from orbit the other side of said roundabout.
By the time I got down to them the three lads were out of a rather tastefully decorated piece of scrap metal, one was throwing up whilst the other two were holding their heads on after trying to use them to puncture through the roof of the car whilst in orbit.
Thankfully no serious injuries 'cept for ego bruising and the lack of a car. His fog lights were still on though!
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