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WickLad08
22-Sep-10, 00:36
Is it my imagination or is caithness.org getting much worse recently?? It has so many pages which havent been updated for years and are certainly not giving the required information. Do they not think that less would be more if they are unable to keep them up to date regularly?? People get charged for advertising but end up advertising on pages that are long out of date....They shouldn't be able to get away with this. You are supposed to be showcasing Caithness and not trying to show its as out of date as the majority of your pages. Maybe the powers that be are too busy using their time to build a new local ammenity on one of the town's only green spaces.

WickLad08
22-Sep-10, 00:38
And if this gets taken down we will know they do not like useful criticisms.

Whitewater
22-Sep-10, 00:58
There are many out of date pages on the org belonging to many organisations, but it is the responsibility of the owners of the pages to update the information. Trouble is that officebearers change and perhaps they are not interested. But I agree it does not look good when you are looking for information and it is several years out of date.

WickLad08
22-Sep-10, 01:01
It seems like the Org is now a once a week hobby for new things on the front page and the rest has been forgotten about. Why not take it back voluntary and get some people to work on it. I am sure there would be many willing to give up a couple of hours to lend their skills or even learn new skills of updating websites because if its not sorted it will end up looking like John O Groats.

Walter Ego
22-Sep-10, 07:23
What a load of ill-informed, spiteful rubbish.

Didn't you post something last year slaging off the site owners and the .Org? Go away.

bridgeend
22-Sep-10, 09:09
What aload of Rubbish Wick Lad 08 .
You would have an interest in any Buildings on the Bignold Park as you live near there.
Have you managed to sort out your mess with ZEROS Bar yet ?(Remember the Bar you leased and banned anyone who spoke out )
Someone in your position should keep quite !

upolian
22-Sep-10, 09:15
Must be your imagination http://serve.mysmiley.net/tongue/tongue0015.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

Tubthumper
22-Sep-10, 09:21
...Remember the Bar you leased and banned anyone who spoke out...
Seems to be a regular theme, get yourself in charge then kick out everyone that disagrees with you out and ban anyone new from joining! An easy way to establish tranquility in your own mind, but unlikely to offer any success in the wider world.

Wicklad08, if this is so 'John O'Groats' bad why not start your own org? Then you can select the members and make sure it's all up to date.

Cattach
22-Sep-10, 09:23
What a load of ill-informed, spiteful rubbish.

Didn't you post something last year slaging off the site owners and the .Org? Go away.

I am afraid that WickLad08 was more or less correct in his various postings. Any fair minded person will accept that the Orrg is nothing like it used to be. In all areas there is neglect with little news and little updating. Also there was previouslyphotos of just about every event in the county but now only a few of the main events get exposure. This has happened gradually over a year or probably more - ever since Bill has taken on more at the HC and Niall has taken on work at Tesco the situation has got worse. Usage and search statistics will prove the point and the Org xcan no longer boast about the various online records it used to claim.

Sad but true, our org is not what it was.

Tatbabe
22-Sep-10, 09:51
I have noticed it too that many postings are out of date.

Have once notified when people were looking for jobs in the vacancies section and received a warning - why are they saying "no jobs wanted in the vacancy section" if people do it anyway and their posting doesn't get deleted?

I agree, I'm sure there would be many people who'd like to volunteer, and it shouldn't be that difficult to appoint them to specific categories to keep track of postings, updates etc, especially when it comes to any events in the area.

I'll be moving up here this week and it would be nice to see more info about local events on here.

Tubthumper
22-Sep-10, 10:11
This has happened gradually over a year or probably more - ever since Bill has taken on more at the HC and Niall has taken on work at Tesco the situation has got worse....the Org can no longer boast about the various online records it used to claim.
Sad but true, our org is not what it was.
It's surprising they've managed to maintain it as it is! Willing horses and all that...

Should someone be volunteering to help, or should we (the Community) just let it fade away?

Tatbabe
22-Sep-10, 10:16
Since they don't seem to consider taking volunteers, maybe a new website created and maintained by volunteers would be an alternative ...

Cattach
22-Sep-10, 10:57
It's surprising they've managed to maintain it as it is! Willing horses and all that...

Should someone be volunteering to help, or should we (the Community) just let it fade away?

Hard to volunteer for something one knows little about. I just do not know the structure - is profit making, is it hoped to be profit making, was it a hobby or a business for the Fernies, etc, etc? It just grew I guess and now it may just be shrinking but until weknow how the whole thing works and want the orgaisers feel about volunteers then nothing will happen.

Tubthumper
22-Sep-10, 11:54
Since they don't seem to consider taking volunteers, maybe a new website created and maintained by volunteers would be an alternative ...
Good idea, go for it ajrossa! :D

gleeber
22-Sep-10, 12:16
Pre internet days, on a day of rain like today, when work wasnt possible I would always find something else to do. Up until 9 years ago, that was when I got a pc, found the org on the same night by typing Caithness in google and the rest is history.
The org hasnt changed. It's always been there to accomodate a certain madness inherant in human beings. Ive changed and I suspsect most of you moaning about the org have changed too.
If I was the Fernies I would suspend the forums for a week and then maybe you would appreciate it more and recognise where the problems lie.
Hell that's profound and I blame the org for it.

Corrie 3
22-Sep-10, 12:20
I think it went downhill on the day I joined !!!!!!.....;)

Seriously, I dont have a problem with the site at all, I think its brilliant and we would certainly miss it if it were removed!!

C'mon everyone, lets back the owners and not slate or berate them!!!...:cool:

Happy Guy
22-Sep-10, 12:23
Surely its OUR ORG, and its up to us, the users, and the members of our very special community which is Caithness, to make sure we each do our bit. Things like posting something for sale, selling it, then not removing it? As for photos and reports of local and community events, - there arnt hundreds of .org employees running around the county, cameras in hand, notebooks at the ready to report on OUR events, its down to US, want to see it here, then take photos, write a report and SUBMIT it - it works! Instead of complaining, be involved, encourage and support!

Walter Ego
22-Sep-10, 13:39
Pre internet days, on a day of rain like today, when work wasnt possible I would always find something else to do. Up until 9 years ago, that was when I got a pc, found the org on the same night by typing Caithness in google and the rest is history.
The org hasnt changed. It's always been there to accomodate a certain madness inherant in human beings. Ive changed and I suspsect most of you moaning about the org have changed too.
If I was the Fernies I would suspend the forums for a week and then maybe you would appreciate it more and recognise where the problems lie.
Hell that's profound and I blame the org for it.

You'll always get those who will pull apart other peoples' achievements. Constructive criticism is fine, but this Wick08 is nothing more than a whinger. Trawl back a year in his posts to find his/her views upon fellow orgers.;)

They'll happily slag off those who don't meet up with their pathetic ideals, yet very rarely will they get off their backsides and do something positive.

Regarding closing the .Org for a week: remember when the site went 'down' for a while during the server changeover? I believe the response from the troops on the ground was overwhelmingly one of support for Bill, Nialll & Co.

So stuff the whingers.

Cattach
22-Sep-10, 17:12
You'll always get those who will pull apart other peoples' achievements. Constructive criticism is fine, but this Wick08 is nothing more than a whinger. Trawl back a year in his posts to find his/her views upon fellow orgers.;)

They'll happily slag off those who don't meet up with their pathetic ideals, yet very rarely will they get off their backsides and do something positive.

Regarding closing the .Org for a week: remember when the site went 'down' for a while during the server changeover? I believe the response from the troops on the ground was overwhelmingly one of support for Bill, Nialll & Co.

So stuff the whingers.

One gets the feeling that Walter Ego does not like any to criticise or disagree with him. Everyone has the right to pass comment as long as it is within the rules and everyone has the right of reply but this right of reply should not be simply 'you have no right to complain'. I get the feeling that Walter Ego just does not like the poster he complains about and it would really not matter what this poster was saying.

WickLad08
23-Sep-10, 01:57
All of the original work was done by volunteers but then when site was riding high and doing well the volunteers were needed no more and it was all taken back and run as a business and I am sure a business that earns a lot through advertising. My point is the people who run it at the moment maybe have too much on their plate and its getting a backstep but could do much much much better if the opened it up to a more volunteers based site. There are some speacial poeple out there with fabulous calls. There is no point in slagging this if you can suggest a solution that a lot of people would agree with. There are many people into photograpthy etc who could also cover end and do things in that area.

They just need to start from scratch, remove all old and out of date pages and len if they want these back and properly give it to a volunteer with an experitise in that area and you could be there, back up and running fully within a couple of months.

The org has been the same now for a few years and i think will just a little work we would have fernies into making an exquisit website but just give it 2010 over hall and a plan to keep us going for the next 50 year and make caithness.org something we please to advise for people interested in the area as opposed to a lot of date irrellivance. The guy should really looking at making this in a community project and a long legacy for them to be proud of in many years to come and I will would be the willing my skills.

I hope someone listened as its a site to showcase our community and then it would raise some funds as a charity to also put back into our community. I really need you gets to get fired up about this as you love the org as much as I do..

WickLad08
23-Sep-10, 02:06
You'll always get those who will pull apart other peoples' achievements. Constructive criticism is fine, but this Wick08 is nothing more than a whinger. Trawl back a year in his posts to find his/her views upon fellow orgers.;)

They'll happily slag off those who don't meet up with their pathetic ideals, yet very rarely will they get off their backsides and do something positive.

Regarding closing the .Org for a week: remember when the site went 'down' for a while during the server changeover? I believe the response from the troops on the ground was overwhelmingly one of support for Bill, Nialll & Co.

So stuff the whingers.


We are not slagging Bill or Niall we are asking them to let people help and engaged in something local. Involve kids voluntarily into it. Some of them love all that techy stuff and would be more than ectatic to do someone for a worthy cause. We wouldnt have come to this as we havent been finding a lot up to date pages and when there are people screaming out there to help. It would also indeed make a superb enterprise for you people involved - maybe linked through the Pultneytown people as a very worthfill comminity enterprise.

I wouldnt post on it if i didnt care. I have pointed our probless and have given some hopefully substantial solutions..

Metalattakk
23-Sep-10, 02:17
All of the original work was done by volunteers but then when site was riding high and doing well the volunteers were needed no more and it was all taken back and run as a business and I am sure a business that earns a lot through advertising. My point is the people who run it at the moment maybe have too much on their plate and its getting a backstep but could do much much much better if the opened it up to a more volunteers based site. There are some speacial poeple out there with fabulous calls. There is no point in slagging this if you can suggest a solution that a lot of people would agree with. There are many people into photograpthy etc who could also cover end and do things in that area.

They just need to start from scratch, remove all old and out of date pages and len if they want these back and properly give it to a volunteer with an experitise in that area and you could be there, back up and running fully within a couple of months.

The org has been the same now for a few years and i think will just a little work we would have fernies into making an exquisit website but just give it 2010 over hall and a plan to keep us going for the next 50 year and make caithness.org something we please to advise for people interested in the area as opposed to a lot of date irrellivance. The guy should really looking at making this in a community project and a long legacy for them to be proud of in many years to come and I will would be the willing my skills.

I hope someone listened as its a site to showcase our community and then it would raise some funds as a charity to also put back into our community. I really need you gets to get fired up about this as you love the org as much as I do..


Rambling incoherent waffle.

WickLad08
23-Sep-10, 02:20
What aload of Rubbish Wick Lad 08 .
You would have an interest in any Buildings on the Bignold Park as you live near there.
Have you managed to sort out your mess with ZEROS Bar yet ?(Remember the Bar you leased and banned anyone who spoke out )
Someone in your position should keep quite !

Firstly I don't live in Bigbold Park and know nothing about your enfounded Zero;s comment.

However I should the that landlord is quite in his right to bar any unruley patrons from his premises and from I heard there, was the best it had ever been and if you check back public records you will find that the family who leased it was from only one year as a trial and nothing else and that is what it had ended that. And juding about that place when it was taken over they did well to get rid of the people they did from the dive it previously was.

This is a place of free speah with no personal attacks on information given out on fellow orgers,

I suggest you get your facts correct when spouting or feel free to come out from your desk and say it to my face but i will certainly not (KEEP QUITE) as you put when the spelling is quiet!!

Aaldtimer
23-Sep-10, 04:00
Firstly I don't live in Bigbold Park and know nothing about your enfounded Zero;s comment.

However I should the that landlord is quite in his right to bar any unruley patrons from his premises and from I heard there, was the best it had ever been and if you check back public records you will find that the family who leased it was from only one year as a trial and nothing else and that is what it had ended that. And juding about that place when it was taken over they did well to get rid of the people they did from the dive it previously was.

This is a place of free speah with no personal attacks on information given out on fellow orgers,

I suggest you get your facts correct when spouting or feel free to come out from your desk and say it to my face but i will certainly not (KEEP QUITE) as you put when the spelling is quiet!!


You, of all posters, have a bit of a cheek complaining about spelling, or grammar! Have a read back of your own posts! [lol]

Walter Ego
23-Sep-10, 06:50
One gets the feeling that Walter Ego does not like any to criticise or disagree with him. Everyone has the right to pass comment as long as it is within the rules and everyone has the right of reply but this right of reply should not be simply 'you have no right to complain'. I get the feeling that Walter Ego just does not like the poster he complains about and it would really not matter what this poster was saying.

Rational (and even heated) argument I will happily jog along with.

Ranting and bluster I will ridicule.

I'm sure you know where the ignore button is if you can't tolerate my opinion.

Walter Ego
23-Sep-10, 06:58
We are not slagging Bill or Niall we are asking them to let people help and engaged in something local. Involve kids voluntarily into it. Some of them love all that techy stuff and would be more than ectatic to do someone for a worthy cause. We wouldnt have come to this as we havent been finding a lot up to date pages and when there are people screaming out there to help. It would also indeed make a superb enterprise for you people involved - maybe linked through the Pultneytown people as a very worthfill comminity enterprise.

I wouldnt post on it if i didnt care. I have pointed our probless and have given some hopefully substantial solutions..

"....They shouldn't be able to get away with this. You are supposed to be showcasing Caithness and not trying to show its as out of date as the majority of your pages. Maybe the powers that be are too busy using their time to build a new local ammenity on one of the town's only green spaces."

Your original post. Hardly constructive criticism, was it? I stand by my original post.
Trying to justify a personal attack on the site owners won't change anything as far as I'm concerned..

And who, exactly, are 'We'?:confused

bridgeend
23-Sep-10, 10:05
Firstly I don't live in Bigbold Park and know nothing about your enfounded Zero;s comment.

However I should the that landlord is quite in his right to bar any unruley patrons from his premises and from I heard there, was the best it had ever been and if you check back public records you will find that the family who leased it was from only one year as a trial and nothing else and that is what it had ended that. And juding about that place when it was taken over they did well to get rid of the people they did from the dive it previously was.

This is a place of free speah with no personal attacks on information given out on fellow orgers,

I suggest you get your facts correct when spouting or feel free to come out from your desk and say it to my face but i will certainly not (KEEP QUITE) as you put when the spelling is quiet!!

Firstly my mistake in saying you had Zeros you Renamed it" THE YARD " .
So before you come Back on here with more of your Rubbish lets get some points right.
1- You had some connection with the Lease on the Yard as per your postings on here.
2- You have a connection with a Property on Northcote Street.
3- If your running of "The Yard " was so Good why did it not last That Long.
4- Is it Not the case you Banned everyone out of it that spoke out againest any of your points- I should know you Banned me and my husband !
5-Wick lad o8 remember this saying-" People in Glasshouses should not throw stones if they cannot take what comes back".!

WickLad08
23-Sep-10, 13:01
Firstly my mistake in saying you had Zeros you Renamed it" THE YARD " .
So before you come Back on here with more of your Rubbish lets get some points right.
1- You and Family had the Lease on the Yard.
2- You have a connection with a Property on Northcote Street.
3- If your running of "The Yard " was so Good why did it not last That Long.
4- Is it Not the case you Banned everyone out of it that spoke out againest any of your points- I should know you Banned me and my husband !
5-Jamie remember this saying-" People in Glasshouses should not throw stones if they cannot take what comes back".!


You have the wrong person and I am sure if you carry on the person concerned will have no objection to taking legal action against you. I shall certainly attract their attention to your posts.

bridgeend
23-Sep-10, 13:23
You have the wrong person and I am sure if you carry on the person concerned will have no objection to taking legal action against you. I shall certainly attract their attention to your posts.

Strange someone called Wicklad08 made posts on 29 Feb 08,01 march08,05 Jun 08 about "the Yard Bar".
Other Weblinks show a connection to the Yard with a person listed in Northcote Street Wick.
There is lots of Info available freely in the Public Domain about most things you write about.

DeHaviLand
23-Sep-10, 13:29
You have the wrong person and I am sure if you carry on the person concerned will have no objection to taking legal action against you. I shall certainly attract their attention to your posts.

Are you saying you're not the same person who wrote this? (http://www.forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=50133)

If you're not the same person, you're using someone else's account. if you are the same person, you are a liar [evil]

Logical
23-Sep-10, 14:38
Are you saying you're not the same person who wrote this? (http://www.forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=50133)

If you're not the same person, you're using someone else's account. if you are the same person, you are a liar [evil]

:eek:Busted!.....?

Walter Ego
23-Sep-10, 15:01
(pulls up comfy chair and opens popcorn)

golach
23-Sep-10, 15:14
(pulls up comfy chair and opens popcorn)

Push over, I have the ice cream [lol]

John Little
23-Sep-10, 15:19
Can I have two choc-ices?

Logical
23-Sep-10, 15:43
The anticipation is killing me....

Saveman
23-Sep-10, 16:22
Och give the guy a break, maybe he forgot he used to have the Yard. We've all done that at one time or another.

I forgot once that I owned the Eiffel Tower.....crazy eh?

It's still for sale BTW, if anyone is interested?

Kevin Milkins
23-Sep-10, 16:31
You give some people an inch and they take a Yard.:roll:

Tubthumper
23-Sep-10, 17:58
It's strange, the old WickLad08 wrote well. The new WickLad08 doesn't. Maybe there's been an accident?? Or ... :eek:

Corrie 3
23-Sep-10, 18:26
It's strange, the old WickLad08 wrote well. The new WickLad08 doesn't. Maybe there's been an accident?? Or ...
You dont think he's been to Portgower do you Tubs????
I hear that your writing goes downhill once you have been bitten!!!

C3....:eek::eek::roll:

sandyr1
23-Sep-10, 19:18
Cheeze Whiz Gurls.......

The Originator said the Org was going downhill......Really?

Logical
24-Sep-10, 12:05
It's strange, the old WickLad08 wrote well. The new WickLad08 doesn't. Maybe there's been an accident?? Or ... :eek:

Maybe we are speaking to the offspring of WickLad????

Logical
24-Sep-10, 12:07
...the same person who wrote this? (http://www.forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=50133)...

I take that back, seems somewhat, impossible...

DeHaviLand
24-Sep-10, 14:30
I take that back, seems somewhat, impossible...

no, just improbable.

Cattach
24-Sep-10, 15:21
This thread seems to have gone way off course and most are irrelevant as far as the original topic is concerned. The org is not as good as it used to be.

donnick
24-Sep-10, 16:03
who need a night out when the org is this good .no way has it gone down hill ur entertaining me :lol:

sandyr1
24-Sep-10, 16:04
OK 'C'. Why don't you moderate a good discussion.....Lead by example...and I am not being....whatever the word is.
It is so easy to say something but what are the alternatives...For every problem one should have answers...Over 2 u....s

Logical
24-Sep-10, 16:54
no, just improbable.

OK, better said.....;)

Walter Ego
25-Sep-10, 14:18
I've not been on here long as a poster. But I've looked in for a looong time.
To me it is the same as it always was. This discussion is one that crops up all the time upon established forums. Sometimes it's from people with genuine concerns, sometimes it's just people lamenting the disappearance of 'good' contributors and, unfortunately, sometimes it is from people who used it as trojan horse to attack those in charge of the site for their own agenda/gratification.

I usual stop taking posters seriously when the expression 'the powers that be' comes into play, or when the OP starts pointing the finger at the activities or reputation of the site owners and mods.

Which is, sadly the line the OP took in his/her openeing shot. Backpedalling later won't wash.

Ricco
26-Sep-10, 10:50
Moan, moan, moan. Tubthumper is right - yet another cycle of wingeing about the org. Yes, there will be changes - that's progress. We now get about in motor cars, you know... not horse and cart. People move on (I miss Errogie, Dr Szin, Tiger (something or other) but these people have changes in their own circumstances and they move on. There are periods of time when I myself cannot devote time to being on the 'net much less on the org. But the org is still great (even with the moaners) and, just to repeat, if it isn't your bag then feel free to clear off and create your own forum. :D

John Little
26-Sep-10, 15:31
The ballad of the downhill Orger


When the moon shines
On the peat bogs
And we're rollin' in the slime
All the sheep are out there grazing
And it’s time for Org pantomime.

I am a downhill Orger
I surfs it all of the day
I am a downhill Orger
It soothes all me troubles away
Oh arr oh arr aay
Oh arr oh arr aay.

It's so cosy in the kitchen
With the smell of moonshine brew
When the breeze blows 'cross the kaleyard
You can smell the cow sheds too.
(Oh, I've never smelt nothing like it in all my life!- ‘cept in Thurso cinema when the fishing fleet came in)

When those forums start a whirling
And a hard day's work is done
There's a laptop round the corner
It's the place I haves me fun.
(Arr, I’ll score someone off 'n' all.)

I am a downhill Orger
I downs it all of the day
I am a downhill Orger
I trolls all me troubles away
Oh arr oh arr aay
Oh arr oh arr aay.
(Come on, get a couple o nasty remarks down 'ere then!)


When I’m fed up, doing Facebook,
And I’ve done me emails too
I’ll get on, down the forums
And tell you all “PooH-Pooh-Pooh!”

I really am the master
Of all matters great and small
Since I last logged on here in April
Its downhill slide did me appall!

I am a downhill Orger
I slags it off all of the day
I am a downhill Orger
I soothes all me troubles away
By ‘aving a go
Oh arr oh arr aay.
(Come on everyone, get grumbling then!
Ha ha!)

I think I’ll stick round here
To put right your wrong ideas
For if I don’t do, then I do fear
T’will all end in sobs and tears

I am a downhill Orger
I lords it all of the day
I am a downhill Orger
I points out your bad points today
Oh arr oh arr aay.


Let the Org be the spice of life!

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad118/johnlittle21/71084-Royalty-Free-RF-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Happy-Guy-Skiing-Downhill.jpg


Thanks and acknowledgements to the Wurzels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNCuCZcjglQ

crayola
26-Sep-10, 16:11
It seems like the Org is now a once a week hobby for new things on the front page and the rest has been forgotten about. Why not take it back voluntary and get some people to work on it. I am sure there would be many willing to give up a couple of hours to lend their skills or even learn new skills of updating websites because if its not sorted it will end up looking like John O Groats.I don't know that I would describe the front page as a 'once a week hobby' but as far as local news goes it clearly isn't what it once was. I don't live in Caithness so I don't look at local info or events very often.

As an example look at the front page from September 2004 (http://www.caithness.org/archives/2004/september2004.htm) when I first joined the forum and you will see the difference. There were typically half a dozen news stories every day. Some were a couple of lines but many were longer and had photographs. It was the front page that attracted me to the Org at first, not the forums which I had no interest in. The Org was my first port of call for news and photos from home. It had for me replaced the Courier and the Groat.

But not now. Nowadays there is news on the front page once or twice a week if we're lucky. Indeed there hasn't been any news on the front page for 8 days.

From what I gather from reading the forums, this is because Bill is a councillor with a responsible senior position in Highland Council which occupies most of his time. And Niall also has a full time job. So it's not surprising that there is far less local news on the Org nowadays. I am not criticising anyone for anything. I'm just trying to describe the situation as I understand it.

I don't know whether 'the powers that be' ;) would entertain inviting new blood with time to spare to help rejuvenate the news on the front page but it seems to me that's what's needed in the current circumstances to bring it back to the great news source it once was.

I agree with what Walter Ego (great name btw :)) said...... All forums go through similar periods of introspection and navel gazing and this one is no exception. But the OP wasn't commenting on the forum and nor am I. For a change. ;)

The forum is what it is and we make it what it is. It's not what it once was but it once wasn't what it is now..........................

changilass
26-Sep-10, 17:18
I am sure that if anyone wanted to submit a story with pictures it would be gratefully recieved.

This dosen't have to be on the basis that someone takes over the front pages, folks would just need to submit them for proofing first.

crayola
26-Sep-10, 17:22
That's a good suggestion and it might do the trick but it still requires that the powers that be have time to filter, edit and post. It's worth a try though.

Ricco
26-Sep-10, 19:55
Great poem, JohnLittle!