View Full Version : Alex Salmond, does he just bungle along?
He is now in favor of the Trident missile system. :eek:
What next? A new reactor at Dounreay?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/scotland/8003865/Alex-Salmond-lobbies-Defence-Secretary-for-Faslane-and-Trident.html
John Little
21-Sep-10, 21:24
But Scotland's deterrent must be credible! Other countries have to know that if they mess with Big Eck they stand to get a clobbering.
What was wrong with sponging off of England's weapons and troops?
No need to prepare for an attack on England...
John Little
21-Sep-10, 21:31
What was wrong with sponging off of England's weapons and troops?
No need to prepare for an attack on England...
Oh yes there is! What was Scotlands shall be Scotlands again! The piece of England I was born in used to be Scotland.
Blue bonnets over the border.... Tridents on Carter Bar....
John Little
21-Sep-10, 21:40
That is an interesting article though. He obviously needs to retain the jobs from the two aircraft carriers and wants to retain Faslane.
With independence neither of those things would be there.
I wonder if a totally broken up UK could afford such things at all?
Political realism tends to set in when you are actually responsible for things.
He's a Politician....of course he bungles along, just like the rest of them!!!
C3...;)
With independence neither of those things would be there.
I wonder if a totally broken up UK could afford such things at all?
I remember hearing that the only thing that make this the united kingdom is that: the Scottish, hate the English. The Irish, hate the English. The Welsh, hate the English and the English, hate everyone else - including most of the English.
But war would just be messy...........
I think Salmond is finding out he has bitten off more than he can chew. I think than none of the four countries making up the United Kingdom can manage without the other three in spite of what the SNP would have us believe. We have been integrated for far too long to go our separate ways now. "United we stand, divided we fall" I believe the saying is.
Green_not_greed
21-Sep-10, 23:53
Completely agree - bungles along with the rest of them hoping to keep a job. Salmond is a complete idiot when it comes to what Scotland thinks is good for the country and also what we want as a country (its not the SNP!)
As for bungling along, well what can I say? Most Caithness-base contractors at Dounreay and Vulcan, are going through the worst time any of us can remember.
So much for NDA underpinning a local supply chain. Their award to a southern-based agency company (for all agency-based staff) is only now beginning to hit home in Caithness, and is ruining many local companies and local company offices.
Given NDA's policies and DSRL's policing of them we will all soon be on the bru......and that's going to be ferked pretty soon by the UK government.
ywindythesecond
22-Sep-10, 00:20
I think Salmond is finding out he has bitten off more than he can chew. I think than none of the four countries making up the United Kingdom can manage without the other three in spite of what the SNP would have us believe. We have been integrated for far too long to go our separate ways now. "United we stand, divided we fall" I believe the saying is.
Hits the nail on the head.
How he could conceive that a country with the population and resources of a medium sized city could make it independently (unless they have the aspect and climate of Monarco :lol:) I can't fathom.
He is chief cookoo on the cloud. :roll:
buggyracer
22-Sep-10, 09:07
How he could conceive that a country with the population and resources of a medium sized city could make it independently (unless they have the aspect and climate of Monarco :lol:) I can't fathom.
He is chief cookoo on the cloud. :roll:
Norway? :lol:
Norway? :lol:
You have got me there, What are their resources? I know they are big in the Oil and Gas industry, Fishing, Whaling, Tourism. Frankly, similar to Scotland. However if you visit, you find that their cost of living and wages and taxes are astronomical. Can't see that happening in Scotland where a very large portion of the population either work for the state or live on benefit. :eek:
You have got me there, What are their resources? I know they are big in the Oil and Gas industry, Fishing, Whaling, Tourism. Frankly, similar to Scotland. However if you visit, you find that their cost of living and wages and taxes are astronomical. Can't see that happening in Scotland where a very large portion of the population either work for the state or live on benefit. :eek:
I think they meant the norway climate as opposed to monarco ;)[lol]
He is now in favor of the Trident missile system. :eek:
What next? A new reactor at Dounreay?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/scotland/8003865/Alex-Salmond-lobbies-Defence-Secretary-for-Faslane-and-Trident.html
Best and most honest politician we have had in Scotland for a long time. He sees it and says it as it is - pity there were not a few more like him.
What a load of POO, you want to get around the British isles /uk and ask these questions for an un biased non rascist answer.
Hey, I never said it was nice but there is a stupid amount of inter-country racism prevalent in the United Kingdom.
Best and most honest politician we have had in Scotland for a long time. He sees it and says it as it is - pity there were not a few more like him.
Honest & Alec Salmond do not go together
I remember hearing that the only thing that make this the united kingdom is that: the Scottish, hate the English. The Irish, hate the English. The Welsh, hate the English and the English, hate everyone else - including most of the English.
But war would just be messy...........
Just for clarity, I love all people of all races!
It's a high price to pay becoming a political leader. Alex Salmonds as thick skinned as the rest of them. He would need to be. Some of the stuff said about him is probably true to an extent but no more truer than the same accusations would be if they were said about me and I had ambitions to be Scotlands political leader.
Im not a nationalist, not yet anyway even though ducatis rousing a certain nationalism with his provocative posts. I'm aware he likes to act the clown so Im not taking it personally. :lol:
It's a high price to pay becoming a political leader. Alex Salmonds as thick skinned as the rest of them. He would need to be. Some of the stuff said about him is probably true to an extent but no more truer than the same accusations would be if they were said about me and I had ambitions to be Scotlands political leader.
Im not a nationalist, not yet anyway even though ducatis rousing a certain nationalism with his provocative posts. I'm aware he likes to act the clown so Im not taking it personally. :lol:
Who's acting? :eek:
I was being polite. I gave you the benefit of doubt. :)
But seriously, although not educated in Scotland, but lived and more importantly worked in Scotland for 20 years or so, I and many like me have at least as much invested in Scotland as many native born Scots. I am seriously worried about any move towards greater autonomy. Not culturally, but for the very important reason of Scotland's financial survival.
Anyone who lives in scotland would be affected by the change to an independant country. I wouldnt worry too much about the economy beccause that's someone elses domain and unless I am prepared to put my head above the parapet I would trust their judgement.
I dont think there's any political reason why Scotland couldnt be independant.
There's plenty historical reasons for staying together as a United Kingdom.
I would vote against independance if a referendum was held tomorrow but if Scotland decided to be independant, Alex Salmond would make a good prime minister.
buggyracer
22-Sep-10, 14:56
You have got me there, What are their resources? I know they are big in the Oil and Gas industry, Fishing, Whaling, Tourism. Frankly, similar to Scotland. However if you visit, you find that their cost of living and wages and taxes are astronomical. Can't see that happening in Scotland where a very large portion of the population either work for the state or live on benefit. :eek:
i have family there, so visit quite often, there standard of living compared to ours is much better, and a much higher employment ratio, so they must be doing something correct?
Not saying its the way to go, i dont know enough on the subject, just giving an example of a similar country to ours who seem to be doing pretty well! ;)
buggyracer
22-Sep-10, 14:57
Anyone who lives in scotland would be affected by the change to an independant country. I wouldnt worry too much about the economy beccause that's someone elses domain and unless I am prepared to put my head above the parapet I would trust their judgement.
I dont think there's any political reason why Scotland couldnt be independant.
There's plenty historical reasons for staying together as a United Kingdom.
I would vote against independance if a referendum was held tomorrow but if Scotland decided to be independant, Alex Salmond would make a good prime minister.
agreed! :D
But if Scotland decided to be independant, Alex Salmond would make a good prime minister..........Aye he would make a good Prime Minister cry [lol]
i have family there, so visit quite often, there standard of living compared to ours is much better, and a much higher employment ratio, so they must be doing something correct?
Not saying its the way to go, i dont know enough on the subject, just giving an example of a similar country to ours who seem to be doing pretty well! ;)
I would hazard a guess, and it is just that, that being invaded, occupied, liberated and rebuilt using reparations money might have helped.
Might work for Scotland but it seems a bit extreme :eek:
i have family there, so visit quite often, there standard of living compared to ours is much better, and a much higher employment ratio, so they must be doing something correct?
Not saying its the way to go, i dont know enough on the subject, just giving an example of a similar country to ours who seem to be doing pretty well! ;)
I too have family living in Stavanger but come on £8.00 a pint of weak beer, and £30 for a pizza, thats no funny
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-362369/Blandinavia.html
buggyracer
22-Sep-10, 15:35
I too have family living in Stavanger but come on £8.00 a pint of weak beer, and £30 for a pizza, thats no funny
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-362369/Blandinavia.html
less obese people and less drink related illness etc = less expenses for the NHS :cool:
buggyracer
22-Sep-10, 15:38
I would hazard a guess, and it is just that, that being invaded, occupied, liberated and rebuilt using reparations money might have helped.
Might work for Scotland but it seems a bit extreme :eek:
prob more to do with the black stuff found under the ground.........;) :lol:
less obese people and less drink related illness etc = less expenses for the NHS :cool:
And Vat at 24%
buggyracer
22-Sep-10, 16:24
And Vat at 24%
higher salarys :D
Peter cairns
22-Sep-10, 22:54
At no point has Alex Salmond said anything in favour of Trident.
What he is in favour of is retaining a naval base on the Clyde. Thats been SNP policy for decades.
Being in favour of keeping open Lossiemouth and Kinloss doesn't mean you wants nuclear bombers stationed there.
As for a small nation like Scotland being able to be independent well just in Europe there are Ireland, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Portugal, Greece, Czech republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and probably more.
They all have small populations but there economies, cultures and politics are all very different. What they do have in common is that neither domestically or internationally does anyone question there legitimacy as independent countries.
Most of those small countries are currently struggling with the global downturn like everyone else but none are really looking to be amalgamated as part of another country, although Iceland is looking at joining the EU.
Peter.
tonkatojo
23-Sep-10, 14:52
Hey, I never said it was nice but there is a stupid amount of inter-country racism prevalent in the United Kingdom.
Aye and a lot of it is coming from your mouth.
Aye and a lot of it is coming from your mouth.
I beg your pardon??:eek:
I'm sorry if I have ever given that impression but please point to anywhere I have ever said anything racist.
tonkatojo
23-Sep-10, 16:03
I beg your pardon??:eek:
I'm sorry if I have ever given that impression but please point to anywhere I have ever said anything racist.
Try post 7 of this thread, explain the reason for posting such verbal excrement other than being racist to the English, as I said in my removed post get out of your seat and visit other parts of the UK mainly England and ask them.
ywindythesecond
23-Sep-10, 18:52
There's plenty historical reasons for staying together as a United Kingdom.
I would vote against independance if a referendum was held tomorrow but if Scotland decided to be independant, Alex Salmond would make a good prime minister.
Really?
If anyone needed final proof, here it is.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/09/23134359
Its official, the man is a lunatic.
Really?
If anyone needed final proof, here it is.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/09/23134359
Its official, the man is a lunatic.
Yes, I have to confess to raising my eyebrows at that one. I think I referred earlier to clouds and cookoos :roll:
Really?
If anyone needed final proof, here it is.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/09/23134359
Its official, the man is a lunatic.
It depends on your point of view, either way it isn't very ambitious of him, he is just playing this political card because he knows that it is mostly in the bag anyway. We only have to look at the BWEA website to confirm the likelihood of Scotland meeting Salmond's 'target' just on the basis of wind energy alone.
John Little
23-Sep-10, 19:52
So Scotland shall be covered in windmills.
All we need now is Don Quixote and Sancho McTavish.
So Scotland shall be covered in windmills.
All we need now is Don Quixote and Sancho McTavish.
Again depending on your view it could be considered a good thing in order to prevent further shocks to the Scottish economy from hikes in fossil fuel price rises which would bring economic decline in Scotland where it would be hardest felt.
It depends on your point of view, either way it isn't very ambitious of him, he is just playing this political card because he knows that it is mostly in the bag anyway. We only have to look at the BWEA website to confirm the likelihood of Scotland meeting Salmond's 'target' just on the basis of wind energy alone.
That's where Salmond annoys me.
'Playing the political card' is seen an acceptable but for me it's annoying.
I'd rather a politician telling it as it is, as is reasonable, as is practical and as is possible. Being told I might get a Ferrari is great but actually getting a Lada less so.
That's where Salmond annoys me.
'Playing the political card' is seen an acceptable but for me it's annoying.
I'd rather a politician telling it as it is, as is reasonable, as is practical and as is possible. Being told I might get a Ferrari is great but actually getting a Lada less so.
I think you have misunderstood, he is actually telling us what is already possible, practical and achievable, he isn't sticking his neck out at all.
what annoys me is that he isn't being ambitious at all in tackling climate change and yet he is showcasing what is already being done as some ambitious goal to impress.
John Little
23-Sep-10, 20:15
Again depending on your view it could be considered a good thing in order to prevent further shocks to the Scottish economy from hikes in fossil fuel price rises which would bring economic decline in Scotland where it would be hardest felt.
That may well be so - and I know you advocate wind power. We just had a huge one open offshore in Kent today.
But I cannot help but reflect that the UK is actually sitting on, so I understand, about 150 years reserves of coal- of which Scotland has a substantial share.
Perhaps instead of eschewing fossil fuels entirely we should find clean ways of using them?
Actually I amend that - apparently the coal reserves of the southern north sea alone are estimated at 300 years usage.
I think you have misunderstood, he is actually telling us what is already possible, practical and achievable, he isn't sticking his neck out at all.
what annoys me is that he isn't being ambitious at all in tackling climate change and yet he is showcasing what is already being done as some ambitious goal to impress.
Like the man in orthopaedic shoes, I stand corrected.
But I cannot help but reflect that the UK is actually sitting on, so I understand, about 150 years reserves of coal- of which Scotland has a substantial share.
Perhaps instead of eschewing fossil fuels entirely we should find clean ways of using them?
Now you have hit on one of the underlying reasons to decarbonise electrical energy. Salmond knows full well that North Sea oil is on its last death throes, Scotland will become a net importer of oil soon enough but he knows that Scotland sits on quite a lot of recoverable coal.
As the price of oil goes up then making petrol and diesel from coal will be economically viable and I suspect this is where Scotland is heading strategically in order to become self sufficient in energy. Scotland already has huge experience in processing hydrocarbons into useable liquids products and so there is synergy here which Salmond is banking upon as a self sufficient vote winner. As long as he can prove that Scotland is self sufficient then his ideals are attractive electorally.
John Little
23-Sep-10, 20:32
http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/cabinetoffice/strategy/assets/sc.pdf
I see what you mean.
It will, however, need huge investment.
John Little
23-Sep-10, 20:34
If this is the case then he should stop tilting at Caithnessian windmills and go down the carbon scrubbing route.
If this is the case then he should stop tilting at Caithnessian windmills and go down the carbon scrubbing route.
He aims to reduce burning coal for electricity so it can be utilised for energy for transport. It is energy management I guess. If coal continued to be burned for electricity at such a rate then we'd have very little coal for transport. Scrubbing doesn't help any of that. Scrubbing in fact increases fuel consumption per MWh provided so it is ultimately self defeating both for energy management and preventing climate change.
http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/cabinetoffice/strategy/assets/sc.pdf
I see what you mean.
It will, however, need huge investment.
Investment means jobs, he is pulling all the right strings.
John Little
23-Sep-10, 20:49
At the moment that is so. It may not be in future if better ways of scrubbing are researched.
Is there not also a fear that access to such reserves may lead to a temptation to make money by selling it abroad where users of coal may not be so scrupulous? Scotland's independence could be founded on coal money - but the effects on the planet would be catastrophic.
Those really are astonishing reserves.
Peter cairns
23-Sep-10, 21:57
The problem with huge coal reserves is that even if you own it, like oil, you usually end up paying the world price. look at these petrol prices;
http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm
It often makes more sense to export a raw material than use it domestically, both Canada and Australia have done well out of selling coal to China, but at the same time chinas growth has pushed up world coal prices.
The Uk is estimated to have 3.4bn barrels of oil reserves left and produces 1.5m barrels a day and uses 1.7m. That means the UK imports oil worth about $5bn a year.
Using 600m barrels a year means that theUK would only be self sufficient for five years if it used only all it's own oil.
If we assume Scotland has half the oil, and probably more, and uses 10% of the UK amount, probably less then Scotland technically would have over 50 years supply.
However if the world continues to use oil as it does long before we reach the end the world price of oil and then coal will make it a very expensive fuel.
So using renewables and selling the oil makes a lot of sense in the medium to long run.
The short term independence argument is may well be about balance of payments.
If the UK uses 1.7m bpd and sells 1.5m bpd at $70 then that $1.4m a day of a deficit on the balance of payments. But if it lost 1m bpd of production and Scotland's .2m bpd of use then that deficit would rise to 0.6m bpd or $4.2m a day or an annual increase in the balance of payments of £15bn and probably more.
In contrast Scotland would be in surplus by about 0.8m bpd which would cut its balance of payments deficit by about £20bn.
Right now an extra £15bn on the Uk trade deficit is the last thing the UK needs as it would all but double the trade deficit. With an extra £20bn coming in Scotland would probably be easily in surplus.
Peter.
At no point has Alex Salmond said anything in favour of Trident.
What he is in favour of is retaining a naval base on the Clyde. Thats been SNP policy for decades.
Being in favour of keeping open Lossiemouth and Kinloss doesn't mean you wants nuclear bombers stationed there.
As for a small nation like Scotland being able to be independent well just in Europe there are Ireland, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Portugal, Greece, Czech republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and probably more.
They all have small populations but there economies, cultures and politics are all very different. What they do have in common is that neither domestically or internationally does anyone question there legitimacy as independent countries.
Most of those small countries are currently struggling with the global downturn like everyone else but none are really looking to be amalgamated as part of another country, although Iceland is looking at joining the EU.
Peter.
Don't think Greece is a very good example.
Don't think Greece is a very good example.
Nor Ireland or Portugal
Just for clarity, I love all people of all races!
You must get around a bit.
Try post 7 of this thread, explain the reason for posting such verbal excrement other than being racist to the English, as I said in my removed post get out of your seat and visit other parts of the UK mainly England and ask them.
My apologies, a famous quote from an English comedian.
If it clears things up at all, I am also English.:eek:. That's right, born in Bolton in greater Manchester.....
Bet ya didn't know that...
tonkatojo
24-Sep-10, 13:13
My apologies, a famous quote from an English comedian.
If it clears things up at all, I am also English.:eek:. That's right, born in Bolton in greater Manchester.....
Bet ya didn't know that...
If your referring to yourself keep practicing. But I cannot remember Peter Kay saying owt like that. Nor Charlie Williams form Barnsley.
If your referring to yourself keep practicing. But I cannot remember Peter Kay saying owt like that. Nor Charlie Williams form a Barnsley.
A quote from Andy Parsons actually. Anyway, this is very off topic. Hope it can be left there.
ywindythesecond
25-Sep-10, 21:51
Now you have hit on one of the underlying reasons to decarbonise electrical energy. Salmond knows full well that North Sea oil is on its last death throes, Scotland will become a net importer of oil soon enough but he knows that Scotland sits on quite a lot of recoverable coal.
As the price of oil goes up then making petrol and diesel from coal will be economically viable and I suspect this is where Scotland is heading strategically in order to become self sufficient in energy. Scotland already has huge experience in processing hydrocarbons into useable liquids products and so there is synergy here which Salmond is banking upon as a self sufficient vote winner. As long as he can prove that Scotland is self sufficient then his ideals are attractive electorally.
If this is Salmond's plan, why doesn't he tell us, or are you his prophet come to prepare us?
And anyway, "connected capacity" is not "meeting the demand". If the wind doesn't blow for 2430MW worth, it wont blow for ten times that. Ten times zilch is zilch.
If this is Salmond's plan, why doesn't he tell us, or are you his prophet come to prepare us?
And anyway, "connected capacity" is not "meeting the demand". If the wind doesn't blow for 2430MW worth, it wont blow for ten times that. Ten times zilch is zilch.
I'm no prophet, it is just obvious for anyone who studies green issues seriously.
Nuclear doesn't meet demand, and Salmond is well aware of that. Nuclear supplies a constant stream of energy, its performance bares no relationship to total level of demand.
What happens when wind and nuclear together exceeds demand? Are they going to start shutting down nuke if the grid has to take wind when it is available? I think Salmond knows what use a nuke station is when it is lying idle.
peter macdonald
26-Sep-10, 09:33
The New Labour leader Ed Millibands approach to windfarms
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/mar/24/wind-farms-opposition-ed-miliband
As for Nuclear power Gordon Brown sold Westinghouse then part of BNFL to Toshiba in 2006 (Hardly a ringing endorsement of UK expertise)
and the Lib Dem view on Nuclear Power
http://campaigns.libdems.org.uk/no2nuclear
How the Tories view the nuclear industry seems to change with the wind (so to speak) from outright hostility in 2002 to proposing building new ones every 18months in 2010...However they pulled the plug on CFR and are intending to abolish BNFL much quicker than was 1st thought.
After the previous government left such a huge deficit can the present one afford a nuclear building program ??
especially with the events and costs at Olkiluoto????
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/business/energy-environment/29nuke.html
A tangled web!!
PM
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