View Full Version : Police deny shooting Dunnington stray horse 19 times
Found this article, and could not really beleave it :(
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8389688.Police_deny_shooting_stray_horse_19_times/?ref=mr
copy below:
Police deny shooting Dunnington stray horse 19 times
9:09am Tuesday 14th September 2010
ANGRY villagers have claimed it took 19 shots by a police marksman to kill a stray horse at Dunnington (http://forum.caithness.org/search/?search=Dunnington), near York.
Several residents contacted The Press to complain yesterday after North Yorkshire Police said two horses were “humanely destroyed” on Sunday after breaking loose and running wild.
Pam Frankland claimed the scene as police chased one of the horses was like “cowboys and Indians”, and she was disgusted because 19 shots had to be fired before the animal died.
Another resident said the animal should have been tranquilised or captured instead, adding: “Supposedly trained officers took 19 shots to kill it.
He said: “They may as well have machine gunned the animal. There is real cruelty and incompetence there.”
A third claimed the animal was first wounded in one leg, and then another before eventually being put down after 19 shots.
But a force spokesman, while admitting one horse “had to be shot a number of times before it fell to the ground, while the other was destroyed quickly,” denied as many as 19 shots were needed.
He said numerous methods of catching and controlling the horses were tried throughout the day, and officers received help from members of the public, farm workers and vets.
He said: “However, all attempts proved unsuccessful as the horses were very wild and would not allow themselves to be approached.”
He said every effort was made to avoid having to shoot the horses, but said: “Ultimately public safety has to be the over-riding concern of the police. We simply could not risk the very real possibility of the horses causing a serious or even fatal road traffic collision.”
I think that the police did everything they could and the more we pick faults at there incompetence the more we degrade them as a force in spite of the real work they do for us.
So they took almost 20 shots to get it down, at least there were no stray bullets killing local residents and at least they didn't take at the animal with clubs and spears.
I think that the police did everything they could and the more we pick faults at there incompetence the more we degrade them as a force in spite of the real work they do for us.
So they took almost 20 shots to get it down, at least there were no stray bullets killing local residents and at least they didn't take at the animal with clubs and spears.
I think your missing the point.......you make it sound like we should be praising them for not shooting innocent people....ermmmmm.....that is what training is for!!
I doubt it was as much as 19 shots... Chances are it was 9 and someone has added to it. That happens with everything. 9 still seems alot but not really when you consider the size of the horse. However, im not agreeing with these methods nor am i going to slander the police. A shot to the head would have been more than sufficient from the so called "Marksman".
I praise them for not shooting innocent people but that's just me with the half full glass scenario.
The police over there seem to have a habit of shooting any thing that lives.
The police over there seem to have a habit of shooting any thing that lives.
Care to share a link or any evidence of that statement whatsoever?
Didn't think so:lol:
it would be very easy to verify..
1: they would have to log how many shots were fired and every bullet fired from a police gun is counted and accounted for.
2: look at the poor dead horses. a vet would be able to tell you how many times the horse has been shot and what shot killed it.
did they try tranq guns at all?
where were the owners of the horses?
ive never seen completly wild horses in this country..and even wild horses can be rounded up and roped.
it may be the american in me, but seriously.. is boxing in such a hard concept?
where did they exscape from? were their no fields they could have been driven back into?
were all the locals on foot? anyone on horseback trying to herd them back?
theres a lot of unanswered questons here.. and i dont think that they did anywhere near what could have been done by what ive read so far. i would like to have all the details of what they tried though, before i made up my mind on it.
have found a few more links to this story that does explain more about it..
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8391830.Police_shooting_of_stray_horses_defended_b y_vet/
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8387491.Police_shoot_two_horses_after_chase/
this does go on to say that the owner of said horses had died a while back,
and that orig four was loose and that they were able to herd two back into a field..
also, the danger was they kept bolting across the A1079
they were reported loose at about 9ish in the morning and wasnt until 7:30 at night they were shot.
still 19 shots is exsessive.. but i can see more reasoning behind it..
still wondering why they didnt try tranqs.
edit: just read some of the comments at the bottom of the page.. and if what a witness has said is true.. then what the police did is criminal.. and charges should prob. be brought against them.
Care to share a link or any evidence of that statement whatsoever?
Didn't think so:lol:
Well Logic do you have a logical answer to why they did this.
Well Logic do you have a logical answer to why they did this.
Yes just nuke em eh?
Yes, to protect local drivers on roads and generally to protect the public.
I don't get how you say the police shoot anything that moves though. Seems a touch unfounded.
Yes just nuke em eh?
No, there is no room for comments like that on a lovely board like this;):lol:
There are two sides to any story. The Vet involved defended the way the Police dealt with the matter:-
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8391830.Police_shooting_of_stray_horses_defended_b y_vet/?ref=mr
The Vet states that he could not get within 100 meters of the horse(s) and that the horses were repeatedly bolting across the A1079.
Picture the scene where Police do nothing and a motorist hits the running horse and is killed. Then the outcry would be why they DIDN'T shoot the horse. Public safety must come first. Too many are willing to condemn without knowing the facts and/or not thinking something through first. I am pretty sure most people would step in with a bazooka, if they knew their child was driving where horses were running amok on the road!!
tonkatojo
15-Sep-10, 17:28
I think that the police did everything they could and the more we pick faults at there incompetence the more we degrade them as a force in spite of the real work they do for us.
So they took almost 20 shots to get it down, at least there were no stray bullets killing local residents and at least they didn't take at the animal with clubs and spears.
It beggers belief the term" marksmen" was used.
Marksman is a little generous a term. "Gunman" would do better.
How much would it cost to provide the Marksmen in our police forces with tranquiliser darts to be used in cases like this, or even test Tasers on the animals, that should stop them running riot!!
C3.....:roll::eek::)
Marksman is a little generous a term. "Gunman" would do better.
I love it when the press say "armed gunman" what is an unarmed gunman?
Aaldtimer
15-Sep-10, 19:41
I love it when the press say "armed gunman" what is an unarmed gunman?
...'armless!:lol:
Walter Ego
15-Sep-10, 21:08
An observation.......
Some on here believe that a police 'marksman' should be able to kill a horse with a single shot from a distance.
A little information for the ignorant:
Getting a 'kill' shot into a moving target is extremely difficult. Hitting something the size of a horse isn't as easy as you would think (as they tend not to stand still waiting to be shot when they're on the loose) and even a gut shot will only slow them down.
To kill a horse cleanly, it must be a head shot, unless you are using a weapon of sufficient heavy calibre to cause a massive amount of damage with a chest shot. Standard police issue weapons are not designed to kill large wild animals - but the police have to use what they have at their disposal.
Ever wondered why soldiers continued to use horses in combat even when muzzle loading guns were introduced? Because it was virtually impossible to bring a large horse down with a single shot.
Officers have to make decisions based on the situation they are presented with. No police marksman would happily 'blast away' at something for no reason.
But the image of armed police killers indiscriminately loosing off rounds willy-nilly will no doubt keep the anti-copper faction and the lets-be-outraged-about-incidents-we-don't understand brigade going for quite some time.....
The police over there seem to have a habit of shooting any thing that lives.
I was/am trying to figure what this comment is about.(Over there). I just wonder where you are?
Please read and digest Walter Ego's comment. He is correct....I think you and some people on here watch too much TV, and I don't think I have ever heard such anti Police comments.
Is this what we have come to? Very sad...
Have any of you ever shot a living thing? I can assure you it is not nice. Do you know that 6 shots from a 40 calibre handgun, did not stop a rabid ground hog...like a hedge hog. Unless you hit a vital part of an animal, they don't just drop down dead like they do on TV. Neither do people!
I usually comment on things I know about, not make 'wild accusations' about a situation that was reported in the Media....Remember what those in Television say.. If it bleeds it leads. In other words the more gory the story the more people watch and thus more advertising money can be made....
And a Taser at a running horse at 100 yards. And a tranquilizer gun doing the same. They are not designed for distance.. It is a dart.......That is when people can get hit.
Did the Police need this/ of course not/ but until some of you get out there and sample a tense situation like this seems to have turned into, please do not 'Slag the Cops'.
If they can do this with dozens of panicked horses, why did they need to shoot those ones???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8iSYMkFO2A
Bunch of incompetents - well in handling horses anyway...
porshiepoo
16-Sep-10, 16:48
Sounds to me like the police decided they had some 'real' target practice at their disposal.
I notice the vet has not said that he could not tranq the horses. He said the closest he could get was 100 metres but that the police told him they had decided to shoot the horses instead.
I could completely understand the need to destroy an animal that may cause danger to the public IF every other option had been exhausted first. In this case it wasn't.
The other day I watched a vet type programme and their was a cow that had escaped from its field and wouldn't be caught. For weeks it was roaming wherever it wanted and was jumping every fence in sight.
The vet came back day after day to try to tranq it but couldn't. The decision to shoot it was only made after weeks of attempted capture had failed despite this cow rampaging the countryside.
I understand that these horse could have caused an accident but I dread to think how the people who witnessed such a death will cope with it.
IMO this incident was poorly handled, was cruel and is a disgrace to those involved.
BTW I am not anti police.
The worst thing was that when they were shot they were on a private estate, not on a road grrr! They were in a 'secure' place :(
reading the eye witness reports.. it seems that the police drove the horses towards the road. a tranq is shot from a gun just like a bullet.. why could they not tranq the horses? cost? as has been implied.
i honestly think that there should be an enquiry about this.. and that it should be done by a third party.
edit:
found this just now
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8394480.Police_to_investigate_handling_of_incident _involving_shooting_of_horses/?ref=rss
reading the eye witness reports.. it seems that the police drove the horses towards the road. a tranq is shot from a gun just like a bullet.. why could they not tranq the horses? cost? as has been implied.
i honestly think that there should be an enquiry about this.. and that it should be done by a third party.
edit:
found this just now
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8394480.Police_to_investigate_handling_of_incident _involving_shooting_of_horses/?ref=rss
FYI...If you read the article....it is a tranquilizer 'dart'. It is not like a bullet/ it is quite inaccurate at distance.
You know it is so easy for 20/20 vision after an event.....I am sure the Polis are not perfect, but thay do try their best.
Remember.... The Police are the Public, and the Public are the Police...so sayeth Sir Robert Peel...circa 1829.
Sounds to me like the police decided they had some 'real' target practice at their disposal.
I notice the vet has not said that he could not tranq the horses. He said the closest he could get was 100 metres but that the police told him they had decided to shoot the horses instead.
I could completely understand the need to destroy an animal that may cause danger to the public IF every other option had been exhausted first. In this case it wasn't.
The other day I watched a vet type programme and their was a cow that had escaped from its field and wouldn't be caught. For weeks it was roaming wherever it wanted and was jumping every fence in sight.
The vet came back day after day to try to tranq it but couldn't. The decision to shoot it was only made after weeks of attempted capture had failed despite this cow rampaging the countryside.
I understand that these horse could have caused an accident but I dread to think how the people who witnessed such a death will cope with it.
IMO this incident was poorly handled, was cruel and is a disgrace to those involved.
BTW I am not anti police.
Until you have some first hand experience in these things, I am unable to see how you can pass judgement. They spent half the day trying to do something.
The tranquilizer is delivered in a 'Dart'.......
Perhaps you just don't understand////There is a saying...been there/ done that...I have.
If it takes several bullets in the head to take down a potential suicide bomber, think how many it'll take to bring down a big horse.
If it takes several bullets in the head to take down a potential suicide bomber, think how many it'll take to bring down a big horse.
Could question your thoughts there Mr. R...
If this World was a good place, none of this would occur!
Aaldtimer
17-Sep-10, 03:05
If they can do this with dozens of panicked horses, why did they need to shoot those ones???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8iSYMkFO2A
Bunch of incompetents - well in handling horses anyway...
Truly inspirational bit of filming!
But have to disagree...you're comparing hens wi' tatties.:confused
If they can do this with dozens of panicked horses, why did they need to shoot those ones???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8iSYMkFO2A
Bunch of incompetents - well in handling horses anyway...
Am really surprised at 'your' comment.
For an intelligent person to pass judgement on something that you read in the paper and take as Gospel, doth surprise me greatly.
Not every Cop is a horse person/ perhaps they just cannot afford such a luxurious life.
A Police Officer who was a part time farmer was able to rescue a man from the innards of a combine harvester....these situations are few and far between....and didn't someone describe the horses as..Wild..is that the same as untamed?
Am sure all those who were not there have this all figured out.....Saying...hindsight is 20/20!
everyone is going on about the police not being horse persons, and doing the best they could.. the area that this happened is filled with horsepeople.. in fact there are lots of people that devote their lives to working with horses there.. several large equestrian schools that would have helped if someone thought to call them. the way that this was handled , well in a word badly..
acording to eye witnesses.. there were already private citizens there.. that were getting somewhere .. when the police came in on 4x4s loudly terrifying the horses more.
Truly inspirational bit of filming!
But have to disagree...you're comparing hens wi' tatties.:confused
I'm comparing horses with horses...
Heres food for thought pardon the pun extract from a newspaper commenting on the horse meat trade in this country"That’s the fate of more than 5,000 horses a year which are slaughtered in the UK and are sent to Europe where horsemeat is routinely eaten, particularly in France where some 70,000 horses are consumed every year. The irony is that some of that meat is exported back to the UK where, say animal campaigners, it could become a delicacy on tables across the country."dont see to much of an outcry on these boards about that, ok not such a dramatic end but every bit as final as these horses.
Very Strange...
Seems like a number of posts on this topic disappeared......perhaps it is 'cause I am so far away.
porshiepoo
17-Sep-10, 16:34
Until you have some first hand experience in these things, I am unable to see how you can pass judgement. They spent half the day trying to do something.
The tranquilizer is delivered in a 'Dart'.......
Perhaps you just don't understand////There is a saying...been there/ done that...I have.
You seem to spend alot of time passing judgement yourself.
We are all entitled to voice our opinion on this event. Granted, you neither have to agree nor like that opinion but quoting every one you disagree with and stating the same thing over and over again is plain old boring!
I made my opinion based on the reports I have read.
The vet wasn't given the chance to even try with a tranq DART, yet the police were happy to 'try' 19 times with a gun, seemingly in a populated area. [evil]
Incidentally Sandy, a cop doesn't need to be a horse person in these situations, just a humane one.
For those of you who want to see a happy ending take a look at this - no guns involved just 6 brave women and their equally brave horses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_BLSHl3EXU
porshiepoo
17-Sep-10, 16:38
Heres food for thought pardon the pun extract from a newspaper commenting on the horse meat trade in this country"That’s the fate of more than 5,000 horses a year which are slaughtered in the UK and are sent to Europe where horsemeat is routinely eaten, particularly in France where some 70,000 horses are consumed every year. The irony is that some of that meat is exported back to the UK where, say animal campaigners, it could become a delicacy on tables across the country."dont see to much of an outcry on these boards about that, ok not such a dramatic end but every bit as final as these horses.
The 'end' is even more dramatic for some of them as they have to be shipped to some of the slaughter countries alive.
This usually involves cramped conditions, lack of water and food (why waste the money) and death during transit. :(
I could tell you some horrifying incidents that have happened and still do happen but I won't.
There are many many petitions in place to try to stop this occuring.
You seem to spend alot of time passing judgement yourself.
We are all entitled to voice our opinion on this event. Granted, you neither have to agree nor like that opinion but quoting every one you disagree with and stating the same thing over and over again is plain old boring!
I made my opinion based on the reports I have read.
The vet wasn't given the chance to even try with a tranq DART, yet the police were happy to 'try' 19 times with a gun, seemingly in a populated area. [evil]
Incidentally Sandy, a cop doesn't need to be a horse person in these situations, just a humane one.
For those of you who want to see a happy ending take a look at this - no guns involved just 6 brave women and their equally brave horses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_BLSHl3EXU
OK....the video you mean..U guys know best..........different reply...
I should add......
If the Police didn't do what was right, then so be it! Let them be critisised and learn from it. Have the Cops ever made a mistake or perhaps not done the job the proper way? Of Course...That would apply to all Humans....
Let the enquiry sort it out...I shall repeat myself 'P'........Hindsight is 20/20.
Kind of interesting really...earlier I quoted Sir Robert Peel..The man who founded the Met Police and of course there was John Peel the Huntsman....I would sing to you if I could...Do ye ken John Peel with his coat so grey.....and on and on..a wee bitty more......do ye ken John Peel at the break of day..........Gosh... that's no bad for an ouldish chiel!
The 'end' is even more dramatic for some of them as they have to be shipped to some of the slaughter countries alive.
This usually involves cramped conditions, lack of water and food (why waste the money) and death during transit. :(
I could tell you some horrifying incidents that have happened and still do happen but I won't.
There are many many petitions in place to try to stop this occuring.
Well aware of the outcome of these poor horses and the petitions in place just trying to highlight it and the comparison to these animals
The vet wasn't given the chance to even try with a tranq DART
I know a man who could have taken the horse down with a DART:-
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/scorrie57/phil-taylor-pic-getty-images-809785693.jpg
He is the greatest darter to ever draw breath but herein lies the problem:- At distances in excess of eight feet, his accuracy drops off dramatically, in fact he cannot throw a dart as far as 100m. Rifles provide a better range for a dart but accuracy diminishes with distance and you might as well try to put a man on the moon using a rocket launched from a milk bottle. If you have ever watched Zoo programs in any quantity you might well have seen how difficult it sometimes is darting an animal effectively in a relatively small enclosure.
Cuts to Purfleet, where Sid Waddell is commentating on the World Darts Final:-
"Phil Taylor steps up to the Oche, Treble twenty...Treble twenty.......Runaway Horse!!"
porshiepoo
17-Sep-10, 20:02
Well aware of the outcome of these poor horses and the petitions in place just trying to highlight it and the comparison to these animals
And all I was doing was highlighting what I felt was an uninformed comment on your part.
And I quote:
"
dont see to much of an outcry on these boards about that, ok not such a dramatic end but every bit as final as these horses.
They most certainly do, more often than not, see a much more dramatic, prolonged end.
There are plenty of sites that deal with nothing more than the plight of the poor slaughterhouse horses. If anyone wants to get into a debate about it or sign a petition or even generally let of steam on the disgrace of events that still occur then there's loads of sites to visit.
I doubt there is a site dedicated to these two horses that were slaughtered by the police though!
So people will continue to talk about it on sites such as this.
They most certainly do, more often than not, see a much more dramatic, prolonged end.
There are plenty of sites that deal with nothing more than the plight of the poor slaughterhouse horses. If anyone wants to get into a debate about it or sign a petition or even generally let of steam on the disgrace of events that still occur then there's loads of sites to visit.
I doubt there is a site dedicated to these two horses that were slaughtered by the police though!
Gawd 'P'....Slaughter by Police! I even offered to sing for you...John Peel the horseman~!
Consider your use of the Word 'Plight'..Think of those who really deserve that Word for the way they are forced to live and die...The Humans...seems that again your priorites are somewhat askew.
porshiepoo
18-Sep-10, 09:05
They most certainly do, more often than not, see a much more dramatic, prolonged end.
There are plenty of sites that deal with nothing more than the plight of the poor slaughterhouse horses. If anyone wants to get into a debate about it or sign a petition or even generally let of steam on the disgrace of events that still occur then there's loads of sites to visit.
I doubt there is a site dedicated to these two horses that were slaughtered by the police though!
Gawd 'P'....Slaughter by Police! I even offered to sing for you...John Peel the horseman~!
Consider your use of the Word 'Plight'..Think of those who really deserve that Word for the way they are forced to live and die...The Humans...seems that again your priorites are somewhat askew.
That depends on your view of plight and priority doesn't it!
These animals shipped around for slaughter are also "forced to live and die" according to the needs of mankind. They have no choice either!
Would I prioritise animal over human??? Honestly, that's a hard one for me to answer.
I have always given to human charities, I've raised quite a bit of money over the years for human charities and I've given a lot of my time to help charities in times of disaster.
BUT, if I had to make a choice to only give to one charity it would be animal without a doubt. There I've said it. Eek!
To me abused animals are every bit as innocent and every bit a priority as a human.
Oh, and it is still my opinion that the police did indeed slaughter those horses. There was nothing humane about their death whatsoever.
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