View Full Version : Canada's shame continues
Today should be the start of the EU ban on seal products from the barbaric Canadian seal massacre, which regularly slaughters up to 300,000 seals per year.
However, following protestations from the Canadian Prime Minister, it (EU) has decided to refer the ban to the World Trade Organisation, a move which could delay the ban for three years. (details (http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-welfare/blog/canadian-protests-halt-seal-ban/))
Prime Minister Harper said “This is a flagrant discrimination against the Canadian seal industry, against Canadian sealers…people who are doing animal husbandry, no differently than many other industries.”
Well if clubbing to death animals is an example of animal husbandry in Canada then it is a sad indictment on the Canadian people who sit back and allow it to happen
(http://www.canadiansealhunt.com/)
This delay is a major blow as it is only just over 12 months ago that the EC approved the European Seal Bill with a massive majority of 550 for the ban and only 49 against. (Details (http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-090505-1.html))
Is it any wonder why so many people are turning their back on using lobbying as a means of protest and instead turning to direct action
Today should be the start of the EU ban on seal products from the barbaric Canadian seal massacre, which regularly slaughters up to 300,000 seals per year.
However, following protestations from the Canadian Prime Minister, it (EU) has decided to refer the ban to the World Trade Organisation, a move which could delay the ban for three years. (details (http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-welfare/blog/canadian-protests-halt-seal-ban/))
Prime Minister Harper said “This is a flagrant discrimination against the Canadian seal industry, against Canadian sealers…people who are doing animal husbandry, no differently than many other industries.”
Well if clubbing to death animals is an example of animal husbandry in Canada then it is a sad indictment on the Canadian people who sit back and allow it to happen
(http://www.canadiansealhunt.com/)
This delay is a major blow as it is only just over 12 months ago that the EC approved the European Seal Bill with a massive majority of 550 for the ban and only 49 against. (Details (http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-090505-1.html))
Is it any wonder why so many people are turning their back on using lobbying as a means of protest and instead turning to direct action
Maybe you start at home -
Hare coarsing
fox hunting
playing a fish for an hour on a line and hook and then putting it back in the water half dead
Shooting seals
poisoning birds of pray
Most of the above bring little work whereas areas of Canada's indigenous population survive on the seal industry.
Yes start at home first.
Aye not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Although I do feel sorry for them they do get alot of attention just because they look cute.
Maybe you start at home -
Hare coarsing
fox hunting
playing a fish for an hour on a line and hook and then putting it back in the water half dead
Shooting seals
poisoning birds of pray
Most of the above bring little work whereas areas of Canada's indigenous population survive on the seal industry.
Yes start at home first.
With the exception of fishing and the licened shooting of seals , all of the above are illegal in this country, whereas clubbing a seal over the head is still legal in Canada.
Your statement that "..areas of Canada's indigenous population survive on the seal industry.." is a myth put forward by the Sealing industry
Less than 3% of the total kill is taken by the Innuit people and these seals were excluded from the EU ban as the products are not exported
Today should be the start of the EU ban on seal products from the barbaric Canadian seal massacre, which regularly slaughters up to 300,000 seals per year.
However, following protestations from the Canadian Prime Minister, it (EU) has decided to refer the ban to the World Trade Organisation, a move which could delay the ban for three years. (details (http://www.care2.com/causes/animal-welfare/blog/canadian-protests-halt-seal-ban/))
Prime Minister Harper said “This is a flagrant discrimination against the Canadian seal industry, against Canadian sealers…people who are doing animal husbandry, no differently than many other industries.”
Well if clubbing to death animals is an example of animal husbandry in Canada then it is a sad indictment on the Canadian people who sit back and allow it to happen
(http://www.canadiansealhunt.com/)
This delay is a major blow as it is only just over 12 months ago that the EC approved the European Seal Bill with a massive majority of 550 for the ban and only 49 against. (Details (http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-090505-1.html))
Is it any wonder why so many people are turning their back on using lobbying as a means of protest and instead turning to direct action
I Know Anfield, if you are so incensed with this why not Emigrate to Canada.
There you will be able to start all sorts of ptotests against the Seal Cull. You never know if you use this as a Political Platform you might even start up your own Political Party.
Then after 30 or 40 years you could become Prime Minister of Canada.
In the meantime until you do Emigrate why not do something to help the Animals in the UK.
Yes Start at home first and let Canada take care of their own Problems.
In the meantime until you do Emigrate why not do something to help the Animals in the UK.
If you knew me, you would know what I have done for animals (and people) in the UK and other places in the world
"..Yes Start at home first and let Canada take care of their own Problems.."
What a novel idea, maybe we could use this idea in other ways e.g. Get our troops out of the Middle East and let Iraq and Afghanistan "take care of their own Problems" or how about ignoring countries who suffer from natural disasters and let them "take care of their own Problems". WW1, WW2 no problem let Europe "take care of their own Problems"
Fortunately not every one in the world is as selfish and uncaring as you are, and that is why the fight to stop all types of animal and human abuse knows no boundaries. Animal Rights & Human Rights, Two Struggles, One Fight
HAHAHAHAHAHA You do make me laugh anfield. Only you can equate WW1 & WW11 the same as a Seal Cull. I am sure a few Million Famlies out there would not agree with you.
What a fantasy world you live in. Next you will be claiming that Liverpool FC is as good as East Fife FC.
Aye not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Although I do feel sorry for them they do get alot of attention just because they look cute.
That is a load of foul smelling stirk dung! Not a big deal? Because they look cute? There is no place in the world for any animal control programme that compromises animal welfare at slaughter for the end product (in this case pelts). And yes, I (and many) do include in this halal and kosher slaughter.
no wonder the canada flag is mostly red. red with blood
disgusting.
well done anfield for bringing this up
HAHAHAHAHAHA You do make me laugh
You mean like last week when you paid £17 for a bag of sweets?
Ahh !! at least that was a Gift for someone as I can not eat sweets as I am Diabetic. Maybe I am not as selfish as you claim I am
Just to be pedantic is was £16.90, but what has that got anything to do with this thread,
You made me laugh even more by posting that.
Why doesn't the EU make it an offence to sell seal fur in the EU or does it already? Kill the market and you kill the clubbing.
There is a hypocrisy at work with Canadian Innuit. They are desperate to hold on to their traditional way of living, i.e. hunting and fishing, but that only applies to feeding and clothing themselves, once they start indulging in wholesale hunting to supply a global market then they relinquish any status of 'indigenous people' in my opinion and it could be just to ban their products.
onecalledk
20-Aug-10, 19:17
Aye not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Although I do feel sorry for them they do get alot of attention just because they look cute.
ALL animals deserve to live and to not be hunted/clubbed to death etc, not just the cute ones! The "not a big deal in the grand scheme of things" shows complete disregard to everything on the planet.
If we got rid of all the seals tomorrow then the environment is affected, the food chain is affected, EVERYTHING is affected. You cannot hunt or exterminate one animal without that coming back to affect everything else on the planet.
Its barbaric what the canadians do, this is the 21st century for goodness sake. If we took a bit more care of everything else that we live alongside on the planet then perhaps the world wouldnt be in the mess that it is in.
Well done Anfield for bringing this up and posting.
K
It is not indigenous people that mass hunt and club seals. They shoot them in small numbers, as required, for food and clothing. It is large industrial concerns that go in for mass slaughter. :mad:
Presumably, they have some pull with the government because I'm quite sure (from the one's I have met anyway) that the Canadian in the street does not approve.
never mind the seal culls in canada, if you read the courier or groat you will find that plenty of "culls" hit people over the head in caithness at the weekend and they get away with it when they go in fron of the court on a monday.........
weedonald
20-Aug-10, 21:09
On the way home from school (to howngry hill) we used to stop by the slaughter house ,which was down by the riverside and watch the animals being slaughtered.. The animals were first stunned by a stun gun then hung up and had there throats cut, a process that is still used.. The pigs with there almost human like cry seemed to sense their fate. But then as now it was because of the need for food and the demand for leather and other by products from the slaughter of animals. So by stun gun or club whats the difference.. Think about it the next time you have your pie and chips
Dog-eared
20-Aug-10, 21:20
The EU today decreed that it's still OK to use seal skin for making sporrans
onecalledk
20-Aug-10, 21:32
On the way home from school (to howngry hill) we used to stop by the slaughter house ,which was down by the riverside and watch the animals being slaughtered.. The animals were first stunned by a stun gun then hung up and had there throats cut, a process that is still used.. The pigs with there almost human like cry seemed to sense their fate. But then as now it was because of the need for food and the demand for leather and other by products from the slaughter of animals. So by stun gun or club whats the difference.. Think about it the next time you have your pie and chips
are you honestly trying to say that because we eat meat and slaughter cows etc we are on the same page as the seal killers in Canada???!!!!!!!!!!! I dont think being clubbed to death is the same as being killed in a slaughter house and one is not linked to the other. We slaughter animals humanely, we dont chase cows round a field with a club with a nail in it and beat them to death .........
As far as I am aware there is not a world wide market for seal meat either, its usually their pelts that are taken.
yes we slaughter animals, we use their hides as clothing but there are ways to do this that bring minimal suffering to the animals that give up their lives for us to eat.
Two VERY different scenerios in two very different worlds ...
K
weedonald
20-Aug-10, 21:44
animals are stunned first not killed, they are then bleed to death in your humane slaughter houses.. The difference is it does not make for good tv footage.
animals are stunned first not killed, they are then bleed to death in your humane slaughter houses.. The difference is it does not make for good tv footage.
Unless its kosher or halal of course, but thats a different thread. Btw why arent all the animal rights groups up in arms about this?
Walter Ego
20-Aug-10, 22:20
animals are stunned first not killed, they are then bleed to death in your humane slaughter houses.. The difference is it does not make for good tv footage.
The clue is in the word 'stunned'.
In other words rendered insensible immediately.
So no comparison whatsover....ah, just clocked you location....:roll:
It is not indigenous people that mass hunt and club seals. They shoot them in small numbers, as required, for food and clothing. It is large industrial concerns that go in for mass slaughter. :mad:
Presumably, they have some pull with the government because I'm quite sure (from the one's I have met anyway) that the Canadian in the street does not approve.
I see nothing wrong with the Inuit who traditionally hunt and fish in order to live and preserve the lifestyle which is associated with Inuit culture. These peoples are being pushed out because of western commercial pressures. The modern Inuit person is far removed from the traditional indigenous person that we hold in western culture. He is more likely to wear a North Face jacket than a sealskin jacket, drive a Toyota 4X4 rather than a sealskinned dog sledge and live in a spacious 4 bedroom detached than an igloo.
The Inuit sell the skins to commercial traders for around $80 per skin. Public perceptions depend on which hat the Inuit want to wear and how far the sealing industry wishes to deploy the smoke and mirrors. :D
Is the argument here with Canada or the EU?
Whilst some of us may sit in our ivory towers discussing 'humane' slaughter of animals 'because we live in the UK / EU / Scotland / where ever' the reality is animals are killed.
Isn't there some questions about Danish pork?
What about the life animals live before they are 'humanely' slaughtered.
the problem is that we only engage in the mass slaughter of 'ugly' animals like cows and sheep
seals are cute and therefore need our protection
Aaldtimer
21-Aug-10, 03:14
I see nothing wrong with the Inuit who traditionally hunt and fish in order to live and preserve the lifestyle which is associated with Inuit culture. These peoples are being pushed out because of western commercial pressures. The modern Inuit person is far removed from the traditional indigenous person that we hold in western culture. He is more likely to wear a North Face jacket than a sealskin jacket, drive a Toyota 4X4 rather than a sealskinned dog sledge and live in a spacious 4 bedroom detached than an igloo.
The Inuit sell the skins to commercial traders for around $80 per skin. Public perceptions depend on which hat the Inuit want to wear and how far the sealing industry wishes to deploy the smoke and mirrors. :D
I'm a bit confused as to why the Inuit are not considered to be acting properly by using a natural resource of their own to further their lifestyle.
Lots of other nations do it...Scots, fishing, deer, salmon,etc...why pick on the Inuit?:confused
orkneycadian
21-Aug-10, 04:12
Why don't people get so hung up on the execution of the following species, all as entitled to a place on this planet?
Rats
Mice
Flies
Daddy Long Legs'
Fleas
Bacteria
Strikes me that anyone who has used some Dettox on their worktop to kill unwanted bacteria, but complains about the killing of some seals is being somewhat hypocritical.....
However, maybe I am misguided and all those who have commented on seals have never, ever killed any other living organism.....
weedonald
21-Aug-10, 06:51
The seal hunt that is the subject of the original post has nothing to do with the Inuit people. Sealers from the St. Lawrence and up the east cost to Labrador are the ones that go out on the ice... http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/05/f-seal-hunt.html
So how about you EU folks killing horses for meat and eating frogs to the point of extinction, oh! and the whale hunt......
On the way home from school (to howngry hill) we used to stop by the slaughter house ,which was down by the riverside and watch the animals being slaughtered.. The animals were first stunned by a stun gun then hung up and had there throats cut, a process that is still used.. The pigs with there almost human like cry seemed to sense their fate. But then as now it was because of the need for food and the demand for leather and other by products from the slaughter of animals. So by stun gun or club whats the difference.. Think about it the next time you have your pie and chips
Wee Donald, they are stunned efficiently with one shot that renders them immediately unconcious. All of the animals handled in a slaughter house or in any other premises feel stressed. According to their species they express their stress differently. if a pig, they squeal. If a sheep they try to hide in the heard, or if away from the heard, be very still untill an opportunity to get away presents itself. Because sheep do not vocalize does not mean they are not expressing stress. because a pig is very vocal it does not mean that it is stressed. But that stress is due to being handled, not because of their location nor because they have a premonition of their imminent demise. The one shot they recieve, is mortal in most cases, but without the bleeding they could take minutes to die instead of the 20 seconds after slicing the jugular of a cow takes. And their is the possibility of the recovery of conciousness ( and therefore pain) if they were not bled. Each animal in a slaughterhouse is handled by a licensed slaughterman who evaluates stun of every animal to pass through his hands, especially when considering the penalties of failing to do so. The whole slaughterhouse process is designed in a way to kill animals quickly and painlessly because a pained animal, aside from being cruel, could produce unusable meat. In most countries ( not in the UK funnily enough, where there is too much waste), the carcase in it's entirety has use (except for chicken feathers.....or at least I haven't found a commecial use for them yet).
Now the canadian seal cull uses the method of clobbering the animals to death. I am sure that most of the time the one hit will be enough, but if you have watched video footage you will have noticed that they work very quickly. They do not check if the animal has been killed or just stunned by the clobbering and they do not bleed them. Just like i am sure most of the time an experienced sealer will kill the cub, there will be a large porportion that are not killed or rendered unconcious with one blow and are thrown on the heap alive.
Of the seal, there is only one part that has any use: the pelt. For reasons of vanity.
For these reasons to appeal to peoples conscience by comparing animal welfare at slaughter of seals and food animals makes no sense. To compare the end product makes even less.
Why don't people get so hung up on the execution of the following species, all as entitled to a place on this planet?
Rats
Mice
Flies
Daddy Long Legs'
Fleas
Bacteria
Strikes me that anyone who has used some Dettox on their worktop to kill unwanted bacteria, but complains about the killing of some seals is being somewhat hypocritical.....
However, maybe I am misguided and all those who have commented on seals have never, ever killed any other living organism.....
The only living organisms that do not kill to survive are plants and any bacteria that live off chemicals.
The point is that canada chooses to control seal populations through an unecessarily cruel method because it's interest lies not in population control, but in the pelt industry.
The point is that canada chooses to control seal populations through an unecessarily cruel method because it's interest lies not in population control, but in the pelt industry.
yes. Exactly
yes. Exactly
And that is unacceptable and wrong.
And that is unacceptable and wrong.
canadas largest market is norway. norawy that is in to whaling.
intresting that both country has big probs with alcohol and depresion. maybe there spirits are adversely effected byu all this bloodshed?
no wonder at it if so
:(
intresting that both country has big probs with alcohol and depresion. maybe there spirits are adversely effected byu all this bloodshed?
Whats my excuse then?:confused
I'm a bit confused as to why the Inuit are not considered to be acting properly by using a natural resource of their own to further their lifestyle.
Lots of other nations do it...Scots, fishing, deer, salmon,etc...why pick on the Inuit?:confused
I think I understand your query and it is right that you ask that question, it would be wrong of me to judge them negatively. But I am just a layman offering an opinion and I see a big reason why Scots and Inuit should be treated differently on the world stage. Primarily, the Inuit seem to have the world status as an indigenous people, Scots do not for obvious reasons. I'd imagine the notion of an indigenous people has differing meanings for different people and, as such, the rights and privileges will differ. But I will like to offer my opinion, if the Innuit want special privileges in terms of freedom to hunt and fish in the way they wish in order to preserve and support their traditional lifestyles in a subsistence manner then they should deserve them. I am willing to be proved wrong and I hope to be but it seems to me that the Innuit are indulging themselves in wholesale slaughter of seal populations to support a western-style lifestyle (ie non subsistence hunting) in order to supply a global western market which sort of defeats the reason of the special exemptions in terms of taking enough to support themselves sustainably and in a subsistence manner that are given to indigenous peoples.
Aaldtimer
23-Aug-10, 04:11
I think you will find that it is not the Inuit people who are involved in the the brutal slaughter of the seal cubs!:confused
I don't think it is just the Inuit of course but they are the prime culprits.
Tell me what you think of this 'smoke and mirror' job (I've already mentioned this tactic of hiding the truth is used) by Associated Press.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gmyGqfWSNhmBma6m8RguatiPzfMQD9HN8F280
The Inuit account for only 1 percent of Canadian seal imports into the EU. These amounted to euro4.1 million last year, according to EU data.
Reading this you will be forgiven that the Inuit are 'small fry' and should be excused in the name of protecting an indigenous people, fair enough, but crikey they are making some money on the side.
Then we read.
Canadian hunters killed an average of 300,000 harp seals annually before the industry began experiencing dramatic drops in catches in recent years. The country's East Coast sealing industry has struggled amid the global recession, vocal animal rights protests and the European ban.
Fewer hunters went out last year because pelt prices bottomed out at $14 compared with more than $100 a skin only a few years ago.
Presumably these figures tie in?
Let us calculate then? (lol typical rheggie post:roll::lol:)
assuming $~Euro for brevity
The Inuit make Euro 4.1 million and they get $14 per pelt. That is ~300,000 pelts, that is the same as the whole Canadian industry in one year yet they would have us believe Inuit kills amount to 1%?!?!
At the other price extreme, at $100 per pelt, that is 41,000 pelts or 14% of the national industry, still rather more than 1%!
I think it is safe to say the Inuit have heap big blood on their hands, how else do they get those 4X4s, snow mobiles and big houses? Different hats and smoke and mirrors for our benefit.
Ach well, perhaps I'm wrong and got my sums wrong, it won't be the first time or the website has made an honest mistake.
Then there is another frightening statistic of horrors. 60% of all Canadian seal skin trade goes through Norway which then 'launders' the skins through the backdoor of Europe as being Norwegian trade so a lot of trade from Innuit sealing goes under the EU radar.
Then there is another frightening statistic of horrors. 60% of all Canadian seal skin trade goes through Norway which then 'launders' the skins through the backdoor of Europe as being Norwegian trade so a lot of trade from Innuit sealing goes under the EU radar.
An absolute disgrace but I dont imagine that most folks care oe will wake up to the fact that the EU is a racket and a way of redistributing wealth to people on its payroll. [disgust]
Aaldtimer
23-Aug-10, 17:32
..."The Inuit account for only 1 percent of Canadian seal imports into the EU. These amounted to euro 4.1 million last year, according to EU data.
"...
Maybe I'm wrong, but I read that to mean that the Canadian seal imports into the EU amounts to 14.1 Eros.:confused
Well done Anfield for posting this in spite of all the stick that the close minded people who dont care about the world around them are giving you. Well done on being on of the few who cares about the world we live in!
And so what if somewhere in the world something worse is going on, that doesnt mean that we shouldn't care about other issues.
(got a lot to say for a newbie)
Maybe I'm wrong, but I read that to mean that the Canadian seal imports into the EU amounts to 14.1 Eros.:confused
If that was the case then the figures don't seem to add up either because 1% of Euro 14.1 million is Euro 41,000 which is about the average annual wage of one Dounreay worker spread amongst 53,000 Innuit.
Well done Anfield for posting this in spite of all the stick that the close minded people who dont care about the world around them are giving you. Well done on being on of the few who cares about the world we live in!
Ill second that innocent creatures depend on good people to defend them.
They dont have avoice and it takes courage to speak against a tide of
apathy ouit there! :roll:
I think you will find that it is not the Inuit people who are involved in the the brutal slaughter of the seal cubs!:confused
So you are admitting that seals are killed in a brutal manner.
Signs of progress.
So how about you EU folks killing horses for meat and eating frogs to the point of extinction, oh! and the whale hunt......
Even some EU folks (those that do eat dead animals) look upon France with some disgust at some of their culinary habits.
NB
At the time of writing Norway & Iceland i.e. the European countries that butcher whales, are not members of the EU. The EU prohibit the trade in products derived from dead whales
A good site for information on the EU stance on whaling can be found here (http://www.wdcs.org/story_details.php?select=580)
At the time of writing Norway & Iceland i.e. the European countries that butcher whales, are not members of the EU. The EU prohibit the trade in products derived from dead whales
I have eaten Whale Meat, an acquired taste definately, but I could not eat a whole one.[lol]
I have eaten Whale Meat, an acquired taste definately, but I could not eat a whole one.[lol]
Careful there, many whales eat at the same level as humans. As you go up through each level of the food chains the mercury levels effectively double each stage. You don't need to eat much of it to suffer the symptoms of mercury poisoning.
Natures justice is sweet.
Canada has nothing to be ashamed of. And the seals are not an endangered species. So why all the fussing and wringing of hands?
Why not check out Australia and take up the cause of feral camels and kangaroos.
And why is there not a rat protection league in the UK? Oh, wait a minute, there is probably one already. Or is that a bit close to home....
Canada has nothing to be ashamed of. And the seals are not an endangered species. So why all the fussing and wringing of hands?
Why not check out Australia and take up the cause of feral camels and kangaroos.
And why is there not a rat protection league in the UK? Oh, wait a minute, there is probably one already. Or is that a bit close to home....
Pride aside and admit the issues man. Nobody said the UK is perfect we'll admit its a bit messed up.
Canada has nothing to be ashamed of. And the seals are not an endangered species. So why all the fussing and wringing of hands?
The slaughter is not humane. Animal welfare at slaughter is not seen to.
Careful there, many whales eat at the same level as humans. As you go up through each level of the food chains the mercury levels effectively double each stage. You don't need to eat much of it to suffer the symptoms of mercury poisoning.
Natures justice is sweet.
Sorry Logical, you have lost me, I do not think I have eaten Krill, well not knowingly, can you order Krill in a chippy? If so please do tell so I can avoid that particular food establishment.
Canada has nothing to be ashamed of. And the seals are not an endangered species. So why all the fussing and wringing of hands
So you are proud of some of your fellow countrymen killing seals in a barbaric way, and you are willing to defend these people.
The fact that some seals are not endangered is irrelevant.
As Gandhi is reputed to have said:
"The greatness of a nation, and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
If that is the case, then Canada (and a lot of other countries) are morally regressive
Anfield....
Methinks your compassion is somewhat off kilter!
Just saw on TV the huge problems in Pakistan with millions displaced and now many are dying from malnutrition and disease. Perhaps instead of spouting off on here, you should donate your time to a worthwhile cause.
I don't question your compassion, but perhaps you should try and make a difference, like many of us do, in the volunteer/charitable World.
Sorry Logical, you have lost me, I do not think I have eaten Krill, well not knowingly, can you order Krill in a chippy? If so please do tell so I can avoid that particular food establishment.
OK, now you have lost me :confused
What does krill have to do with this??
OK, now you have lost me :confused
What does krill have to do with this??
Whales eat Krill, I ate a bit of whale, were does mercury poisoning come into the equation?
Anfield....
Methinks your compassion is somewhat off kilter!
Just saw on TV the huge problems in Pakistan with millions displaced and now many are dying from malnutrition and disease. Perhaps instead of spouting off on here, you should donate your time to a worthwhile cause.
Please see post No#6
I don't question your compassion, but perhaps you should try and make a difference, like many of us do, in the volunteer/charitable World.
Are you saying that a person can not help both humans AND animals?
I think that if you did some research, you would find that the majority of people who show compassion to animals also display the same compassion to fellow humans. Sadly the reverse is not true.
Whales eat Krill, I ate a bit of whale, were does mercury poisoning come into the equation?
I'm glad you asked, well.... each living creature contains mercury, from plankton to humans, as the food chane progresses the levels or mercury effectivly double because they are eating living things. Certain species of whale eat at the same level of the food chane to humans. This makes for higher levels of mercury than humans are supposed to eat. And like that we have mercury poisening.:~(
luskentyre
25-Aug-10, 22:19
Yes Start at home first and let Canada take care of their own Problems.
Why? I've never understood that argument. Why should it matter where the cruelty exists? Is it any less disgusting because it happens in another country?
Yes, there are plenty of animal welfare issues nearer to home which need tackled but a conscience doesn't disregard something simply because it's not nearby. The sheer scale of the seal slaughter alone is enough to warrant action.
The sheer scale of the seal slaughter alone is enough to warrant action.
Great wonderful and fantastic. So what Action are you going to take?
Or is the only Action that you will do is to make a post here on the Org saying how you despise the killing of seals in Canada.
Anfield......A thought... Over 4000 US/Brit etc. troops have been killed in Iraq and over 100,000 civilians have lost their lives, and now Afghanistan and there is Haiti & all the other poor people in the World.
I think it is called 'Get a Grip'.
Start a thread that condemns war, famine and disaster rather than this futile attempt to embarrass a friendly Country.
Mind you, we can have you in the same situation as Heather Mills who lay on the ice shedding croc tears for the furry animals....
Pray tell me if you wish how much work/ how many days volunteering you have give to needy causes this year.....I understand of what you say, but there are priorities....
And you know this is actually not against the law of the land/ then one should respect other people's laws.
I cannot understand how you can say shame and slag people the way you do.....
.......without prejudice!
Metalattakk
26-Aug-10, 04:17
Why? I've never understood that argument. Why should it matter where the cruelty exists? Is it any less disgusting because it happens in another country?
It's not a question of "Why should it matter where the cruelty happens?"
It's more to do with "Why should other cultures tell us what to do? What makes them better than us?"
We, in the UK, have no right to interfere in other cultures. None whatsoever.
It's not a question of "Why should it matter where the cruelty happens?"
It's more to do with "Why should other cultures tell us what to do? What makes them better than us?"
We, in the UK, have no right to interfere in other cultures. None whatsoever.
Some things, such as human and animal rights hold truths that (usually or should) cross cultural barriers. Muder, rape, cruelty are universally recognized as wrong and condemnable even though some cultures might take differing views. Because certain cultures might take differing views does not make them less vile. Condeming those views/atitudes/behaviours does not make you a cultural barbarian. If people did not stand up for what they thought of as wrong, even if in "other cultures", a womens worth would still be measured in livestock, children would be a mans property, slavery would still legally exist and females would be too feeble minded to be allowed to determine a government.
Two very partial statistics are out there with regard to Canadian sealing: those against sealing state that 45% of seals are skinned whilest still alive, through failures in clubbing. The seal industries studies claim failures of 5% (So if a cull is 300 000 and no seals are lost, 15 000 animals per season are not properly killed and suffer. In a slaughterhouse one act of cruelty to an an animal, puposeful or by neglect, will earn the slaughterhouse a prosecution in the UK). Both are extreme and baised to one end or the other. So I think the that the ammount of failed clubbings lies in the middle. Lets say, for arguments sake and so not to favor either side of the argument, smack in the middle of those two extreme statistics. That would mean a 25% failure rate. That would mean that 1 out of every 4 seals clobbered to death survive long enough to suffer significantly. That is far to much even though I think that the 5% (15 000 animals out of 300000) admitted to by the industry is still far too much, and does not take into account those that are lost after being struck.
Here's a nice tradition nearer home that maybe we can do something about - guga hunting
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1889113
In a slaughterhouse one act of cruelty to an an animal, puposeful or by neglect, will earn the slaughterhouse a prosecution in the UK).
See post #20.
See post #20.
And?
I will try and answer your cryptic response ( which has to do with Halal and Kosher slaughter), though I am not sure what point you are making other than that of the existance of halal and kosher slaughter methods.
1) I do not agree with halal or kosher slaughter (religious slaughter) without stunning. I think you will find that most vets in slaughterhouses don't. However it is not legally defined as an act of cruelty, not matter how much you or even the professionals wish it.
2) Not all Religious slaughter is carried out without stunning. Several halal premises stun animals before slaughter. Some even with captive bolt.
3) Within 20 seconds of cutting the carotid and jugular on one side, an adult cow is dead. Very different to agonizing with a non lethal cranial injury for however long it takes for someone to realise the animal is not dead. Very different to being skinned alive.
For these reasons, though I disagree with religious slaughter without stunning, I find the magnitude of it to be completly different to the slaughter of seals being carried out. And no, two wrongs do not make a right. And also no, not all Canadians agree with the culling as it stands, Just as not all Portuguese are into bull fighting.
See post #20.
there are organisations opposed to Kosher and Halal slaughter. have a look at scotlandforanimals (http://www.scotlandforanimals.org/religiousslaughter.html)
In addition, Compassion in World farming (CIWF (http://www.ciwf.org.uk/faqs/organisation/halal_meat_and_religious_slaughter.aspx)) have an ongoing education policy about Halal/Kosher killing of animals.
It is also interesting to note that stunning an animal before killing does not make the dead animal haram i.e. not halal, and that a fatwa (http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/fatwa-stunning.php)was issued to this effect.
(http://www.scotlandforanimals.org/religiousslaughter.html)
there are organisations opposed to Kosher and Halal slaughter. have a look at scotlandforanimals (http://www.scotlandforanimals.org/religiousslaughter.html)
In addition, Compassion in World farming (CIWF (http://www.ciwf.org.uk/faqs/organisation/halal_meat_and_religious_slaughter.aspx)) have an ongoing education policy about Halal/Kosher killing of animals.
It is also interesting to note that stunning an animal before killing does not make the dead animal haram i.e. not halal, and that a fatwa (http://www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/fatwa-stunning.php)was issued to this effect.
(http://www.scotlandforanimals.org/religiousslaughter.html)
Have we all forgotten about the people....killed/ murdered/maimed by war/famine, and natural disasters....Am having difficulty understanding how at this time one can prioritize the way some people do! Talking about Kosher & Fatwas on animals
And Ghandi....he also had his issues/perhaps discuss him and his ways.
Shabbychic
26-Aug-10, 16:48
Have we all forgotten about the people....killed/ murdered/maimed by war/famine, and natural disasters....Am having difficulty understanding how at this time one can prioritize the way some people do!
What this has to do with the price of butter, I don't know. :confused This thread is about the slaughter of seals, not about other issues.
Some of us have the capacity to actually care. Some of us can even care about various issues at the same time.
In the words of Edmund Burke:-
"All that is necessary for the truimph of evil, is for good men to do nothing."
People who care about animal welfare cannot/do not care about human welfare? People who decry one wrong are wronging every other victim in the world?
Sandy1, that is a ridiculous statement.
What this has to do with the price of butter, I don't know. :confused This thread is about the slaughter of seals, not about other issues.
Some of us have the capacity to actually care. Some of us can even care about various issues at the same time.
In the words of Edmund Burke:-
"All that is necessary for the truimph of evil, is for good men to do nothing."
A modern Government sanctioned workplace job, so that the poor sealers/ seriously financially disadvantaged people, can make a $/pound is as you quoted? Each Country has it's laws and traditions....and I don't think they make butter from them...do they? Perhaps you could elaborate on how that would affect the price of butter.........
Shabbychic
26-Aug-10, 17:31
A modern Government sanctioned workplace job, so that the poor sealers/ seriously financially disadvantaged people, can make a $/pound is as you quoted? Each Country has it's laws and traditions....and I don't think they make butter from them...do they? Perhaps you could elaborate on how that would affect the price of butter.........
A modern Government who like to rub people's noses in it, like having seal meat on the menu at their parliament as a snub to the EU, and who wanted to use sealskin uniforms for the Winter Olympics in Vancouver? A modern Government who still encourage trophy hunting of polar bears and aeriel wolf hunting? Charming.
With regards to the poor sealers, try reading here (http://liberationbc.org/issues/seal_hunt) for some mythbusters.
As for the price of butter; it's a saying when someone makes an irrelevant statement with regards to the discussion topic.
A modern Government who like to rub people's noses in it, like having seal meat on the menu at their parliament as a snub to the EU, and who wanted to use sealskin uniforms for the Winter Olympics in Vancouver? A modern Government who still encourage trophy hunting of polar bears and aeriel wolf hunting? Charming.
With regards to the poor sealers, try reading here (http://liberationbc.org/issues/seal_hunt) for some mythbusters.
As for the price of butter; it's a saying when someone makes an irrelevant statement with regards to the discussion topic.
S Sheek..
Yes a modern Gov't ....guess what...Our gov't!
And as an immigrant from Kaitness, I still think it is a wonderful Country.
We all have our....customs and ways of life. Unfortunately, those whom have not traveled and seen 'Another/Other World', are tied up in their own little secluded World.....
The Butter thingy....I was joking....just funning.
And there is a saying...To each his/her own! One shouldn't condemn that which we do not understand!
Am having difficulty understanding how at this time one can prioritize the way some people do! Talking about Kosher & Fatwas on animals
And Ghandi....he also had his issues/perhaps discuss him and his ways.
The way in which you are trying to defend the indefensible, and your failure to understand how people can show compassion to both animals and our fellow humans does not surprise me in the least.
S Sheek..
Yes a modern Gov't ....guess what...Our gov't!
To each his/her own! One shouldn't condemn that which we do not understand!
A government that passes a bill that stops people from getting close to a seal unless you are going to kill it. Yeah dead progressive that.
I don't understand why governments constantly send it's young to act as cannon fodder to fight illegal and unjust wars. Does that mean that I am wrong to comdemn them?
We shall just have to agree to disagree.....
And I am not defending anything...Does any of us enjoy killing.....animals or humans....of course not....... BUT........let us have some respect for other's views and laws!
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