View Full Version : Shetland Fireraiser!!
connieb19
09-Jul-06, 12:46
I'm surprised no-ones brought up the story of the 23 year old Thai bloke who is facing deportation from Lerwick for fireraising. The islanders got together and raised a petition to keep him there. What does everyone think? At first I thought, quite right send him back to his own country but then I thought about it, and Shetland being a close community, they must know him well enough to know it's out of charachter for this bloke, and surely they wouldn't want to keep him there if they thought there was a risk of him reoffending.
Should people who offend sent back to their own country after they've served their time here, even if there is a slim of them reoffending?:confused:
Iss is a bit like the kettle calling the pot black.:lol: Did you not get sent to org jail a few months back for raising some heat on Caithness.org and then when you served your time the community welcomed ye back with open arms? [lol]
Iss is a bit like the kettle calling the pot black. Did you not get sent to org jail a few months back for raising some heat on Caithness.org and then when you served your time the community welcomed ye back with open arms? [lol]
Gleeber - difference is - Connie's one of our own & the only offence she caused was amongst "those who will always be offended" :lol:
Perhaps they need him for the next Uphellya....
Billy Boy
09-Jul-06, 13:09
Gleeber - difference is - Connie's one of our own & the only offence she caused was amongst "those who will always be offended" :lol:
spot on lol[lol]
I thought that Shetlanders were man eaters and maybe they fancied a biit of Thai curry. Sorry - just kidding, honest. ;)
orkneylass
09-Jul-06, 16:06
Why is is that polish immigrants are so welcome in Scotland compared with immigrants whose skin is a bit darker???? Scotland is predicted to have the biggest population decilne of any European country over the next 30 years so we need all the immigrants we can get. We do have to be careful about people who commit crimes but this was just a teenage error. The lad is an athlete important to Shetland and the support he has had from the community means he is unlikely to let them down again. Maybe the final say in a situation like this should come from the local community.
Why is is that polish immigrants are so welcome in Scotland compared with immigrants whose skin is a bit darker???? Scotland is predicted to have the biggest population decilne of any European country over the next 30 years so we need all the immigrants we can get. We do have to be careful about people who commit crimes but this was just a teenage error. The lad is an athlete important to Shetland and the support he has had from the community means he is unlikely to let them down again. Maybe the final say in a situation like this should come from the local community.
Poland happens to be in the European Ecomonic Community, so nothing to stop the Polish folks coming over here. They are not immigrants, they are legal Eurpoeans traveling in Europe, looking for work.
pultneytooner
09-Jul-06, 17:25
Why is is that polish immigrants are so welcome in Scotland compared with immigrants whose skin is a bit darker???? Scotland is predicted to have the biggest population decilne of any European country over the next 30 years so we need all the immigrants we can get. We do have to be careful about people who commit crimes but this was just a teenage error. The lad is an athlete important to Shetland and the support he has had from the community means he is unlikely to let them down again. Maybe the final say in a situation like this should come from the local community.
Skin colour doesn't matter, he was an arsonist, that's all, don't make it into something it's not.
Well I imagine the community obviously know and trust him and well done them for the show of support they have given this young man.
landmarker
09-Jul-06, 18:02
I've followed this somewhat and the population was truly behind him, well, half of it anyway - a phenomenal number of supporters. They cannot all have known him, or known of his athletic abilities (whatever they are, they are irrelevant).
A lot of this is about an island community resenting and rebelling against the influence of an outside authority and I do not blame them.
It's a microcosm of the G.B. v. E.U. debate , though I wished the UK population were equally galvanised and half as motivated.
Good on the Shetlanders.
:(
Skin colour doesn't matter, he was an arsonist, that's all, don't make it into something it's not.
I know he commited the crime and he freely admits he was wrong but his stepfather (whom he appears to have been close to) had just died and his baby had just died...
connieb19
09-Jul-06, 19:16
:(
I know he commited the crime and he freely admits he was wrong but his stepfather (whom he appears to have been close to) had just died and his baby had just died...And his pals took him out and got him totally bladdered to try and make him feel better..:confused
The reason he has been chosen for deportation is that he is an easy target.
He has lived on a small set of islands since the age of ten and would not have become what I would call "Street Wise".
Had he been brought up on the Mainland in a large city he would simply have "disappeared" making it very difficult for the Authorities to deport him.
Why struggle to find murderers, rapists, muggers and other violent criminals when you have a sitting duck you makes it easy for you.
"We've deported a criminal, aren't we wonderful!" He is being used as a scapegoat to draw attention from the fact that violent criminals who courts had recommended for deportation were released back into society by the Government to re-offend.
Whilst attention is drawn to one harmless individual it stops people worrying about the release of Murderers and Rapists who are still at large and a danger to the public.
Poland happens to be in the European Ecomonic Community, so nothing to stop the Polish folks coming over here. They are not immigrants, they are legal Eurpoeans traveling in Europe, looking for work.
Because you are European does not mean you are not an immigrant. I am European and an immigrant in Scotland.
Migration implies movement. Emmigration implies movement from your own country to another not your own, where you are an immigrant. There is nothing to stop a legal immigrant from going anywhere in the world. The difference between coming from a third country or from within a European community country is that you do not have to "ask for permission" to work or reside anywhere in the european community.
I Have to agree with JAWS: he is the shining example the foreign office needed to point out that they WERE doing something about immigrant criminals. They choose badly because a community had taken him in and he had become part of it. That community decided to defend him.
Pultneytooner: he commited a stupid, stupid crime under extraordinary circumstances. This is not a hardened violent criminal. This is a boy that made a mistake, as many of us do when we are growing up. To use your own words:
don't make it into something it's not
orkneylass
09-Jul-06, 22:10
here here.
Because you are European does not mean you are not an immigrant. I am European and an immigrant in Scotland.
Migration implies movement. Emmigration implies movement from your own country to another not your own, where you are an immigrant. There is nothing to stop a legal immigrant from going anywhere in the world. The difference between coming from a third country or from within a European community country is that you do not have to "ask for permission" to work or reside anywhere in the european community.
:
Ju I stand corrected, :confused
pultneytooner
09-Jul-06, 22:20
Because you are European does not mean you are not an immigrant. I am European and an immigrant in Scotland.
Migration implies movement. Emmigration implies movement from your own country to another not your own, where you are an immigrant. There is nothing to stop a legal immigrant from going anywhere in the world. The difference between coming from a third country or from within a European community country is that you do not have to "ask for permission" to work or reside anywhere in the european community.
I Have to agree with JAWS: he is the shining example the foreign office needed to point out that they WERE doing something about immigrant criminals. They choose badly because a community had taken him in and he had become part of it. That community decided to defend him.
Pultneytooner: he commited a stupid, stupid crime under extraordinary circumstances. This is not a hardened violent criminal. This is a boy that made a mistake, as many of us do when we are growing up. To use your own words: Under no circumstance is it exusable to become an arsonist, life dealt him a bad hand well guess what, he should live with it.
Whilst I agree with jaws that he was picked as a soft target, that does not excuse his behavour.
Will he recover from his fire - raising antics with therapy?
He's an arsonist whether he's classed as a local or not, he's still a scumbag.
Under no circumstance is it exusable to become an arsonist, life dealt him a bad hand well guess what, he should live with it.
Whilst I agree with jaws that he was picked as a soft target, that does not excuse his behavour.
Will he recover from his fire - raising antics with therapy?
No it doesn't excuse his behaviour, but he has already served the punishment.
"Arsonist", "Fire Raiser", are very emotive terms. Would there still be the same hue and cry if he had broken a window or damaged a street sign?
He is nothing more than a person who has committed one small act of vandalism.
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!”
pultneytooner
10-Jul-06, 08:18
"Arsonist", "Fire Raiser", are very emotive terms. Would there still be the same hue and cry if he had broken a window or damaged a street sign?
He is nothing more than a person who has committed one small act of vandalism.
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!”
Causing £40,000 worth of damage along the way, just a small act of vandalism, jaws?
Causing £40,000 worth of damage along the way, just a small act of vandalism, jaws?
He commited the crime and did the time. It is PAID in social terms. Unfortunately some stupid things we do have higher costs and consequences than others. Misjudgement when overtaking can cost lives, yet you do not get a life sentence if someone dies when you do it nor are you expected to pay and repay for that lack of judgement.
He is not a re-offender nor shows any indication of it being anything else than an unpremeditated stupid, out of caracter mistake for which he will now have a criminal record overshadowing him the rest of his life. Besides that I am sure he punishes himself everyday for his stupity. He is known and loved and respected in his community, to which he makes a valid contribution. Who are we to question the Shetlanders judgement, that forgave this boy's mistake and welcomed him back into their community and lives when he finished serving his time?
The words are right, but I believe (as do most people on the Shetland Islands, who know him and off him much more than we do) that he isWAS an arsenist.
pultneytooner
10-Jul-06, 19:41
He commited the crime and did the time. It is PAID in social terms. Unfortunately some stupid things we do have higher costs and consequences than others. Misjudgement when overtaking can cost lives, yet you do not get a life sentence if someone dies when you do it nor are you expected to pay and repay for that lack of judgement.
He is not a re-offender nor shows any indication of it being anything else than an unpremeditated stupid, out of caracter mistake for which he will now have a criminal record overshadowing him the rest of his life. Besides that I am sure he punishes himself everyday for his stupity. He is known and loved and respected in his community, to which he makes a valid contribution. Who are we to question the Shetlanders judgement, that forgave this boy's mistake and welcomed him back into their community and lives when he finished serving his time?
The words are right, but I believe (as do most people on the Shetland Islands, who know him and off him much more than we do) that he isWAS an arsenist. Well call me pragmatic but I wouldn't want a convicted arsonist living anywhere near me any more than a murderer or paedophile.
Maybe none would re-offend again but there is always the nagging feeling that they may.
Next time life deals him a blow, what then?
Causing £40,000 worth of damage along the way, just a small act of vandalism, jaws?
A Car and a portacabin hardly the sum you mention see below
The friend, who had been in trouble before, got inside and looked for something worth stealing. When nothing was found, Makao set the car on fire. They discovered a Portakabin further on, a temporary office of a fishing contractor. Uthai's boyfriend broke in. Again, Makao set it on fire. It didn't take long for the police to track them down.
orkneylass
10-Jul-06, 19:56
To Pultneytooner - I take it you live a good 5 miles from your nearest neighbour???? Or have you checked that none of your neighbours has ever broken the law??? Or done something foolish when drunk???? And obviously you never have either. And I also take it that unless you can trace your ancestry back to the year dot, you'd be happy to be sent home should you commit an offence - wherever "home" might be. This lad has lived most of his life in Shetland, so to be sent home would mean staying in Shetland.
pultneytooner
10-Jul-06, 20:39
A Car and a portacabin hardly the sum you mention see below
The friend, who had been in trouble before, got inside and looked for something worth stealing. When nothing was found, Makao set the car on fire. They discovered a Portakabin further on, a temporary office of a fishing contractor. Uthai's boyfriend broke in. Again, Makao set it on fire. It didn't take long for the police to track them down.
The reason Mr Makao is now in jail dates back to 2 February, 2002 when, aged 20, he set fire to a car and a portable building belonging to a local fishmongers, causing damage estimated at more than £40,000. He later pleaded guilty to two charges of culpable and reckless fireraising. The court heard that at the time he was drunk and acting with another person.
The Scotsman Sat 17 Jun 2006
pultneytooner
10-Jul-06, 20:55
To Pultneytooner - I take it you live a good 5 miles from your nearest neighbour???? Or have you checked that none of your neighbours has ever broken the law??? Or done something foolish when drunk???? And obviously you never have either. And I also take it that unless you can trace your ancestry back to the year dot, you'd be happy to be sent home should you commit an offence - wherever "home" might be. This lad has lived most of his life in Shetland, so to be sent home would mean staying in Shetland. No, I live a good 5' feet from my nearest neighbour and no, they don't have a criminal record for arson or anything else.
No, I do not have a criminal record or had any involvement with the police nor do I plan to or wish to.
If I did they could quite happily send me back home to wick.
If you wish, blame the government as they make the laws not me and it's not uncommon for other countries to deport people back to their country of origin after they have served jail time in that country.
What's your stand on the real nasties those guilty of rape, paedophilia or murder, would you like them to stay aswell or would you pick and choose the ones you wanted to have deported.
The Scotsman Sat 17 Jun 2006
I will retract my statement
pultneytooner
10-Jul-06, 22:14
I will retract my statement
No problem, golach, I enjoy reading your posts.:)
Whitewater
10-Jul-06, 23:39
Read through this thread with interest, Shetland has stood up for her adopted son. Well done to you all up there.
He did commit a silly crime while drunk, but I have to agree with 'jaws' he was an easy target for the authorities, as have all the others they have deported just to make the figures look good. They never seem to get anywhere near the murderers and rapists, they release them from prison, and can't find them again.
...... real nasties those guilty of rape, paedophilia or murder......
The point is that this boy is not a "real nasty". By all means perpetrators of violent crimes, people that have re-offended, drug traffickers can and should be sent to their own country, one way trip AFTER having served their time in jail. You have to pick and choose. Justice has to be weighted according to the crime. There is not one universal sentence for one type of crime. In every trial, the circumstances of the crime and the caracter of the person play a huge part and that is the way it has to be.
PS: I've no criminal record and have no intention of aquiring one, but I don't know what tommorow will bring and what circumstances I will find myself in, so I would never point fingers.:rolleyes:
No problem, golach, I enjoy reading your posts.:)
Grrrr twice in one thread the Golach has had to make groveling apologises, my reputation is in tatters [evil]
Grrrr twice in one thread the Golach has had to make groveling apologises, my reputation is in tatters [evil]
Never mind Golach - you just have to start reading a reputable newspaper. Pm me your address & I'll get the P&J sent down to you ;)
From some of my previous posts I don't think anybody could claim that I was sympathetic to Illegal Immigrants or toward those immigrants who come here because they wish to engage in Criminal Acts.
Even I have difficulty in trying to convince myself that somebody who arrives here at the age of ten has arrived with the intent of engaging in criminality.
Yes he behaved in a stupid manner and was correctly punished for it. I understand, but am willing to be corrected, that the Sheriff, in sentencing him, stated that he had, "Acted out of character".
I have heard no mention that, as part of his sentence, he should recommended for deportation.
The whole situation has the rotten stench of a Totalitarian State putting on a Show Trial. It is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction from an incompetent Home Office trying to distract attention from it’s own ineptitude and crass stupidity.
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