View Full Version : Thats Just Not Going To Happen!
Thats judt not going to happen EVER drugs of any description will never ever be legalised. The war on drugs is a BIG SCAM!
Why because prohibition of drugs in this roten evil system increases use and they know it.
Tke for example marjuana which is far less dangerous than LEGAL drugs.
You have to ask yourself whyis it cheaper to slam peacful pot smokers who get high now and then in jail.
If they are not dealing and using it for personal and medicinal use.Why sholdnt it be decriminilised?
What happened to peoples right to chose?
Alcohol and cigarettes kill far morew every week. [disgust]
You take a trip to the Dr. and you get drugs legalised drugs.
The drug companies work ith the Doctors TO SELL MORE drugs.
People have a right to know about the dangerous side effects of prescription drugs.
Thes legal drugs killed 250,000 people in the US alone last year!
Prescription pain killers have now surpassed illegal narcotics for overdose deaths.
Most of the overdoses were acidental.
Thios is just the tip of the ice berg!
The big pharma profits are obcene. [evil]
Agree. I prefer cannabis to alcohol as do many other orgers who have pm'd me but dont want it common knowledge because of the "stigma" attached . Nobody on the org knows me so I dont care. ner..ner..ner..:lol:
Agree. I prefer cannabis to alcohol as do many other orgers who have pm'd me but dont want it common knowledge because of the "stigma" attached . Nobody on the org knows me so I dont care. ner..ner..ner..:lol:
No wories you wont be put into the stocks and chains and forced to wavew your anaomity (sp)
Dont let me get started on the truth about hemp as cultvating hemp risks criminal prosecutin! [disgust]
Mrs Bucket
14-Aug-10, 16:13
Alcohol and cigarettes cause such a lot of pain and destruction. Countless children go without the basics because of these legal drugs. I better stop there and say no more.
I think that certain drugs should ne legalised. Pot as you mention above but I would also provide legal heroin to addicts.
EVERYBODY involved in the fight against drugs will tell you that the present system is just not working and (according to the C4 programme "The Drugs War") less than 1% of smuggled drugs are detected.
By making heroin, or diamorphine to give it's posh title, available to addicts it would remove street dealers from chain and help ensure that addicts are receiving proper rehabilitation advice and help. It would also free up a lot of space in our countries gaols for proper criminals.
I would also provide legal heroin to addicts.
I'd provide a bullet, but I guess I'm just one of those liberal minded folk.
I prefer cannabis to alcohol
I dunno, alcohol seems to do the trick fer me. Cannabis never really did much fer me, and at the time £ for £ Holts' won hands down.
as do many other orgers who have pm'd me but dont want it common knowledgeOooooohhh, lets have an OUTING, go awn go awn go awn, you know you want to.........
Dont let me get started on the truth about hemp as cultvating hemp risks criminal prosecutin!
But it's worth a few bob though innit?
Bin' thinkin' about tryin' t' grow it in the polytunnel, but mebbe the lights might give the game away to the feds.......but then there's blackout blinds.....hmmmmm...
........goes of to ponder new venture......
At this point in time there are large numbers of young people walking arround in a very paranoid state after using the latest cheap legal high called MDVP which is readily available on the net. In all the years I have been an active musician and well known advocate of recreatioal drugs, I have never observed such a frightening manifestation. It is an understatement to say the the situation worries me. There is an evergrowing number of youngish people using it and it seems to be causing serious mental problems in the short term and the Lord knows what it will do in the long term.
Another herb which is being widely used is Salvia Sage( salvia divinorum ) which is the strongest and most frightening substance I have ever tried.
It is readily available accross the counter in city shops and is being made stronger and stronger. This herb was used by Mexican Indians to predict the future by going back to the past and it is very, very disturbing in effect.
Magic mushrooms are illegal once they are picked and dried. Is this logical or insane? They grow everywhere and people of all ages still continue to pick and eat them. How can you stop it happening?
Tobacco kills and injures uncountable people per year but it remains legal.
Of all the drugs I have ever taken, alcohol comes out as the worst of them all but it's OK, it's legal.
Methadon is given to heroin addicts as a substitute but it is more addictive and harder to withdraw from than heroin. It would make more sense to prescribe heroin to addicts as a cheaper and safer alternative which would cut the crime rate by a fair degree as addicts would not have to steal and mug to get enough for a fix.
The countries like Holland and Portugal who have a much more rational and sane attitude to the drug situation have, by far, a lower crime rate than Britain and much fewer addicts.
Blanket legalisation and honest education would not make the 'drug problem' go away but it would take it out of criminal hands and, if fairly taxed, would feed the countrie's finance instead of draining it.
Our present attitude legally is nothing less than insane and is exacerbating the problem it is trying to cure. As long as our intrepid politicians ignore the advice of those who know what they are talking about such as Prof Nutt and other advisers, the present farce will continue. Our prisons will continue to overflow at £30000 a year per prisoner and the courts will continue to be clogged to breaking point. Of course every prison has its flourishing dealer network and does not even remove the drug user from a supply. Nothing whatsoever is achieved by draconian sentencing and we still have trial by postcode where some-one south in England will get a slapped wrist and some-one in Wick will get incarcerated for long periods for the same crime. And they call it justice!!!!!!!!
I'd provide a bullet, but I guess I'm just one of those liberal minded folk.
A pity your mother did not take drugs....the morning after pill springs to mind.
At this point in time there are large numbers of young people walking arround in a very paranoid state after using the latest cheap legal high called MDVP which is readily available on the net. In all the years I have been an active musician and well known advocate of recreatioal drugs, I have never observed such a frightening manifestation. It is an understatement to say the the situation worries me. There is an evergrowing number of youngish people using it and it seems to be causing serious mental problems in the short term and the Lord knows what it will do in the long term.
Another herb which is being widely used is Salvia Sage( salvia divinorum ) which is the strongest and most frightening substance I have ever tried.
It is readily available accross the counter in city shops and is being made stronger and stronger. This herb was used by Mexican Indians to predict the future by going back to the past and it is very, very disturbing in effect.
Magic mushrooms are illegal once they are picked and dried. Is this logical or insane? They grow everywhere and people of all ages still continue to pick and eat them. How can you stop it happening?
Tobacco kills and injures uncountable people per year but it remains legal.
Of all the drugs I have ever taken, alcohol comes out as the worst of them all but it's OK, it's legal.
Methadon is given to heroin addicts as a substitute but it is more addictive and harder to withdraw from than heroin. It would make more sense to prescribe heroin to addicts as a cheaper and safer alternative which would cut the crime rate by a fair degree as addicts would not have to steal and mug to get enough for a fix.
The countries like Holland and Portugal who have a much more rational and sane attitude to the drug situation have, by far, a lower crime rate than Britain and much fewer addicts.
Blanket legalisation and honest education would not make the 'drug problem' go away but it would take it out of criminal hands and, if fairly taxed, would feed the countrie's finance instead of draining it.
Our present attitude legally is nothing less than insane and is exacerbating the problem it is trying to cure. As long as our intrepid politicians ignore the advice of those who know what they are talking about such as Prof Nutt and other advisers, the present farce will continue. Our prisons will continue to overflow at £30000 a year per prisoner and the courts will continue to be clogged to breaking point. Of course every prison has its flourishing dealer network and does not even remove the drug user from a supply. Nothing whatsoever is achieved by draconian sentencing and we still have trial by postcode where some-one south in England will get a slapped wrist and some-one in Wick will get incarcerated for long periods for the same crime. And they call it justice!!!!!!!!
fine contrib.
£30000/prisoner/year! i didnt know it was that much. and all for a con
i agrre that alcohol is a very nasty poison
But it's worth a few bob though innit?
Bin' thinkin' about tryin' t' grow it in the polytunnel, but mebbe the lights might give the game away to the feds.......but then there's blackout blinds.....hmmmmm...
........goes of to ponder new venture......
Do you think this might be why oplytunnels are springing up everwhere like mushrooms? ;)
fine contrib.
£30000/prisoner/year! i didnt know it was that much. and all for a con
i agrre that alcohol is a very nasty poison
alcohol is evil and legal mmm
A pity your mother did not take drugs....the morning after pill springs to mind.
Dear Mumsey's alleged drug & alcohol fuelled nights of wanton rampage during the heady nights and days of the 60's and 70's is not of my concern, nor is it for public digestion on the 'tinterweb.
However I don't believe there was any undesired or unwanted offspring left in her wake unlike many crack whores & habitual class A drug abusers.
.....bitty.....want bitty......
Dear Mumsey's alleged drug & alcohol fuelled nights of wanton rampage during the heady nights and days of the 60's and 70's is not of my concern, nor is it for public digestion on the 'tinterweb.
However I don't believe there was any undesired or unwanted offspring left in her wake unlike many crack whores & habitual class A drug abusers.
Statistics show that there are more unplanned pregnancies due to excess alcohol than kids born to heroin addicts.
I would imagine that is quite the case but I still do not see the correlation between heroin abusers and Dear Mumsey's taking / not taking of drugs.
I would imagine that is quite the case but I still do not see the correlation between heroin abusers and Dear Mumsey's taking / not taking of drugs.
I stand corrected, but I do not think that I made a connection between your parents and heroin addicts.
Narcocoruption is HUGE take Peru alone which has 200 ilegal airstrips
Ithink 3 havwe been closed quite recently.
Anyways another former Federal Attorney while leading the so called Mexican 'war on drugs' amased $10 million in six months and stashed it in a bamk in Houston.
Where does itall end? :roll:
Where does itall end?
It will never end Peg, Drugs are a monster that has been created by Man and is now out of anyones control, it is like the nuclear bomb only 50 times worse....It will never end my Friend!!!
[evil]:eek::(
http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/policypointers/ppdrugs.pdf
http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/policypointers/ppdrugs.pdf
As I have just said it wont end, especially if we have lily livered tree huggers running the country (God forbid)....Thanks for the link, its just reminded me never to vote for the Greens,,,What a load of ......(insert your own word)...
:cool::eek::~(
[quote=Gleber2;748033]At this point in time there are large numbers of young people walking arround in a very paranoid state after using the latest cheap legal high called MDVP quote]
The gadgey that owns a headshop here is 50 years of age and tries every legal high himself before selling it and even he wont sell that stuff.
If, Alcohol and Nicotine are evil, (and I agree they are). Where is the logic in legalising even more, evil drugs?
As I have just said it wont end, especially if we have lily livered tree huggers running the country (God forbid)....Thanks for the link, its just reminded me never to vote for the Greens,,,What a load of ......(insert your own word)...
:cool::eek::~(
I once thought the same as a former police officer.
You can only deride the Green party policy upon past evidence that it hasn't worked. It is a fresh approach to the drugs problem and it can't be any worse that on present evidence, the present policy of criminalising drug offenders and intercepting the illegal drugs trade has largely been ineffective.
From a personal opinion, I'm not worried about someone who indulges themselves to death, that is their choice though they should be educated of the dangers. What worries me is people breaking into houses in order to steal to feed a drug habit that is out of control. I'm not aware that it is a big concern that drunks are breaking into houses so that they can keep drinking their White lightening.
If, Alcohol and Nicotine are evil, (and I agree they are). Where is the logic in legalising even more, evil drugs?
What is most important is to get people to stop taking drugs or have a safe environment in order for them to take drugs responsibly and safely so they know exactly what they are taking and what the risks are.
Drink and tobacco aren't evil and neither are drugs. The people who get others hooked or encourage others to indulge in drugs inappropriately which may be extortionately priced or mixed with toxic substances are inherently evil.
Making something illegal won't affect availability, prohibition in the USA should be enough evidence for that. By decriminalising drugs, you take the sale of them away from gangs who exist by pushing drugs onto others by explicit means to a lawful passive mode of sale.
Just my 2p, suck on it.
If you have a law that lots of people break, like burglary for instance or drink driving or rape or paedophilia. Do you repeal the law? Or do you improve the detection and prosecution of offenders?
If you have a law that lots of people break, like burglary for instance or drink driving or rape or paedophilia. Do you repeal the law? Or do you improve the detection and prosecution of offenders?
But then those offences are committed against other persons. Murdering another person should be illegal obviously, murdering yourself is called suicide which isn't illegal. So I can understand why it should be illegal to administer drugs to a person against their will so why should it be illegal to take drugs yourself and almost kill yourself in the process, not because you are killing yourself but simply because the particular drugs in question are illegal to possess? Seems silly if you look at it outside the box.
diamorphine? really?! herorin? im pretty sure thats what they gave me when i was in labour with my first child..
You were in Inverness.
Better drugs there:lol:
I only got pethidine!
they wanted to keep me from screaming any more! two shots of diamorphine gas and air.. and at 9 cm finally got my epidural!
Damn!
They nearly didnt give me pethidene with Euan.....It only kicked in afterwards...but it was good!
But then those offences are committed against other persons. Murdering another person should be illegal obviously, murdering yourself is called suicide which isn't illegal. So I can understand why it should be illegal to administer drugs to a person against their will so why should it be illegal to take drugs yourself and almost kill yourself in the process, not because you are killing yourself but simply because the particular drugs in question are illegal to possess? Seems silly if you look at it outside the box.
Not really, The crimes stack up don't they? It is a crime in the country of origin to grow and or manufacture the stuff. It is a crime to sell it (anywhere in the world) it is a crime to export it. It is a crime to transport it. It is a crime to smuggle it into the UK. It is a crime to sell it wholesale. It is a crime to sell it retail. It is a crime to buy it. How can you then make it legal to take it? :confused
diamorphine? really?! herorin? im pretty sure thats what they gave me when i was in labour with my first child..
You are probably right Queen Vics hubby was well informed about anaestesia (sp) and Quen Vic was given opium during labour.
She also took cannibis for end of the month muscle spasms.
She took morphine on a regular basis.
Between 1830 and 1831 18,956 chests of traficked opium which earned millions of dollars and part of the profits went to Queen Vic and the British Goverment.
Drug adiction was endemic in costal cities.
Therefore Queen Vic dealt with drugs in other words was a drug dealer.
Interseting link to read .....
http://www.novavidarecovery.com/Heroin.pdf
diamorphine (sp) is regulary given in labour as well as pethadine (which is all you get in Caithness) as it is seen as a once off thing to control the pain and any expectant mother needing that level of pain relief is wanting something fast reacting... NOW is too late!
Not really, The crimes stack up don't they? It is a crime in the country of origin to grow and or manufacture the stuff. It is a crime to sell it (anywhere in the world) it is a crime to export it. It is a crime to transport it. It is a crime to smuggle it into the UK. It is a crime to sell it wholesale. It is a crime to sell it retail. It is a crime to buy it. How can you then make it legal to take it? :confused
Not really? It is still illegal to kill yourself?
The crimes stack up? Crimes against who? Which crime of those you mentioned actually harm another person either physically or financially apart from the person taking the drug?
The only injured person is the State......but only by choice.
diamorphine (sp) is regulary given in labour as well as pethadine (which is all you get in Caithness) as it is seen as a once off thing to control the pain and any expectant mother needing that level of pain relief is wanting something fast reacting... NOW is too late!
Would not know which is which but have just foun this.
Diamorphine is heroin.
Pethidine is a painkilling drug. It is also an anti-spasmodic which means that it helps you relax. It's an opiate drug (derived from the opium or poppy plant) so it's rather similar to morphine - in fact, it is a synthetic version of morphine.
Where do we draw the line?
I don't have an issue with anyone doing their own thing, within their own premises, with their own money that does not harm another person in any way nor has any burden on the UK taxpayer.
(Now I know that is a definite statement with broad and diverse responses before anyone fires back.)
Generally speaking I have no issue with cannabis users, I don't really have an issue with heroin users in principle.
But, it is illegal isn't it.
There is a fortune spent on cameras, polis, civvy nazis in battenburg vans etc. to catch me out on the very rare occasion I have a lapse of concentration whilst driving and my speed creeps up to 65 on a 60.
But hey, if yer a smack head there is no end of help at the taxpayers expense!
I dont know whether legalising drugs will make things better or worse but i tend to think that it will make a positive difference because keeping them illegal is not making any difference at all. I do know that until politicians have a full and frank discussion about legalisation and are prepared to look at it as an option then we are on a hiding to nothing. Currently none of the major parties are prepared even to consider it and that seems to me to be a bit stupid. If carefully conducted research shows it might reduce crime and enable the government to secure income from it then lets at least give it a go. This refusal to examine the options is blinkered to say the least.
Not really? It is still illegal to kill yourself?
The crimes stack up? Crimes against who? Which crime of those you mentioned actually harm another person either physically or financially apart from the person taking the drug?
The only injured person is the State......but only by choice.
WHAT?? Have you never heard of organised crime?
I dont know whether legalising drugs will make things better or worse but i tend to think that it will make a positive difference because keeping them illegal is not making any difference at all. I do know that until politicians have a full and frank discussion about legalisation and are prepared to look at it as an option then we are on a hiding to nothing. Currently none of the major parties are prepared even to consider it and that seems to me to be a bit stupid. If carefully conducted research shows it might reduce crime and enable the government to secure income from it then lets at least give it a go. This refusal to examine the options is blinkered to say the least.
The UK is is a cog in a worldwide war on drugs. Unilateralism is not an option.
Generally speaking I have no issue with cannabis users, I don't really have an issue with heroin users in principle.
But, it is illegal isn't it.
There is a fortune spent on cameras, polis, civvy nazis in battenburg vans etc. to catch me out on the very rare occasion I have a lapse of concentration whilst driving and my speed creeps up to 65 on a 60.
But hey, if yer a smack head there is no end of help at the taxpayers expense!
Perhaps it is people like you who the Chief Constable of Cambridgeshire Police was referring to when she said that "Speeding is the middle class's version of antisocial behaviour with motorists convinced they should be able to get away with it" Story (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/speeding-middle-class-drivers-are-antisocial-police-2047375.html)
Your remarks about there being "no end of help for smackheads at taxpayers expense" show your ignorance on this subject.
Trying to get off heroin is not just a matter of turning up at your GP/drugs clinic and getting on a programme the same day.
It will never end Peg, Drugs are a monster that has been created by Man and is now out of anyones control, it is like the nuclear bomb only 50 times worse....It will never end my Friend!!!
[evil]:eek:
You are right there my friensd (about drugs being monstoros )
when we moved house
I could see from my window excesive traffic and odd characters
coming an going all day long!
Sometimes at night to!
If its happening on your own doorstep it shouldnt be ignored.
Trouble is folks are scared to speak out.
As we have been through hell on earth I refuse to be intimidted.
We all have a duty to get rid of nasty dealers in our neighborhoods.
Whenit comes to intimidtion harasment threats verbal abuse
and actual violence by these scum.
You have to take a stand.
These scum devastate whole communities and break up families for there greed of money.
They can buy new vehicles every few months
and not give a jot about the victims nor the crisis some families are going through.
After complaints the trafic stopped
but I suspect the transactions are off site
adn more covert so its business as usual.
Old derelict properties and other remote sites in the area are mini havens.
They even use bushes which enables the scum to carry on with there ilegal activities.
Its endemic and its everywhere! [disgust]
Interestin article below about the danger of buying online
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1173735/After-deacons-daughter-killed-medicine-bought-online--chilling-truth-internet-black-market-prescription-drugs.html
Where do we draw the line?
I don't have an issue with anyone doing their own thing, within their own premises, with their own money that does not harm another person in any way nor has any burden on the UK taxpayer.
Neither do I but when it impacts on inocent folk and they become victims who suffer hell at there hands.
Then its another matter altogther!
Drug dealers can be violent. [disgust]
WHAT?? Have you never heard of organised crime?
Yes and history tells us that in the USA when the prohibition on alcohol was lifted the gangs lost a huge powerbase until drugs became more popular.
Sorry Rheghead, I've kinda lost the point of this thread. Are we arguing or agreeing with each other? :lol:
Perhaps it is people like you........... ....that agree with Cheif Con' Julie, yes, I do. "Driving without care or consideration for other road users is probably among the worst kind of antisocial behaviour in its truest sense"
Your remarks about there being "no end of help for smackheads at taxpayers expense" show your ignorance on this subject.I'm very well aware of the help available to drug abusers, the costs and budgets set aside for it and how this is then abused by them. When money for, and medical services are taken away or not available for the genuinely sick.
Neither do I but when it impacts on inocent folk and they become victims who suffer hell at there hands.
Then its another matter altogther!
This is the problem, it does affect innocent outsiders.
The UK is is a cog in a worldwide war on drugs. Unilateralism is not an option.
If you consider that the US alone is the "World Headquarters" of drug money!
Then your view is somwhat eutopian. :roll:
Keep them illegal. They'd be taxed to hell otherwise, same as tobacco and alcohol.
If you consider that the US alone is the "World Headquarters" of drug money!
Then your view is somwhat eutopian. :roll:
You consider whatever you want :lol:
At home. One of the family.
Dont be fooled into thinkin
Ole George Bush Snr. wanted to stop the Afghan Opium trad.
In fact the CIA oposed the destruction.
Thr CIA has been complicit in the global drug trade for years.
Its an evil agency devuot of morals.
George Bush Snr. kept Manuel Noriega on the CIA payroll even talthough the Burea of Narcotics and Dangeros Drugs wanted him arested.
This kept thousands of tones of cacaine pouring onto the American Streets thruogh the Panama Canal.
Whilst the corrupt US Goverment looked the other way.
Jed Bushs friend blew up an aeroplane but George Bush Snr. gave him a presidential pardon.
Unlike most Americans who comit crimes and go to jail youll never get any of the Bush crims jailed.
Thats Just Not Going To Happen! [disgust]
The impact of the corrupt lawles Bush family has devastated the lives of human beings WORLDWIDE! :~(
As yet another leading doctor calls for the end of criminalisation of drugs (Professor Sir Ian Gilmour) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/ferguswalsh/2010/08/would_decriminalising_drugs_work.html) why don't the politicians listen?
It seems that hardly a week goes by without some academic or other saying the current system is not working and needs a drastic overhaul.
An interesting article in the British Medical Journal puts forward the idea of ending the criminalisation of drugs and the setting up of organisation that would look at reducing the health and social problems which are caused by our current thinking on drugs. (BMJ Article (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/long/341/jul13_1/c3360))
Its author, Stephen Rolles is head of research at Transform Drug Policy Foundation (TDPF) a non political organisation which is looking into ways on ending the problem that society has with drugs (TDPF Website (http://www.tdpf.org.uk/index.php))
As yet another leading doctor calls for the end of criminalisation of drugs (Professor Sir Ian Gilmour) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/ferguswalsh/2010/08/would_decriminalising_drugs_work.html) why don't the politicians listen?
They don't listen because they think they will lose votes, soft on drugs and all that rubbish.
So long as the big parties are singing the same song then drugs won't be an election issue and they can campaign on the usual issues like economy, tax etc.
As yet another leading doctor calls for the end of criminalisation of drugs (Professor Sir Ian Gilmour) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/ferguswalsh/2010/08/would_decriminalising_drugs_work.html) why don't the politicians listen?
It seems that hardly a week goes by without some academic or other saying the current system is not working and needs a drastic overhaul.
An interesting article in the British Medical Journal puts forward the idea of ending the criminalisation of drugs and the setting up of organisation that would look at reducing the health and social problems which are caused by our current thinking on drugs. (BMJ Article (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/long/341/jul13_1/c3360))
Its author, Stephen Rolles is head of research at Transform Drug Policy Foundation (TDPF) a non political organisation which is looking into ways on ending the problem that society has with drugs (TDPF Website (http://www.tdpf.org.uk/index.php))
Everyone who is truly knowlegable on the subject of drugs realises that prohibition is not the way. The political attitude is verging on insane as the drug problem has been steadily escalating for forty years no matter what has been one to stop the flow of illegal drugs.The level of cannabis consumption has risen to a point that the suppliers cannot meet the demand and our young people are being sold that which can only be described as garbage.
Let us investigate why young people will consume anything to get high and to escape reality. This need is now being fullfilled by legal drugs along with alcohol and nothing is known about the long term effect of these deadly combinations.
There is no doubt that we have a serious drug problem with Scotland having the worst record of anywhere in Europe. 545 deaths last year from all drugs is still a remarkably small figure compared to the death rate from
tobacco and alcohol. No-one has ever died from cannabis overdose.
Cannabis, of course, is being blamed for all sorts of mental problems in the young but the reality we have created for these young people to grow up in could be more to blame.
In the 1920 the early oil Barons such as Rockefeller of standard Oil
Rothschild of Shell etc became paranoicly aware of the posibilites of Henry Fords vision of cheap methanol fuel and kept oil prices incredibly low between $1 and $4 per barrrel (there are 42 gallons in an oil barrel) untilm 1970 almost 50 years!
When they were finaly sure of the lack of competiton the prices of oil jumped to almost $60 + per barel over the next 30 years.
Watch the great cannibis conspiracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwd2k9oj0K8
Cannibis production is so harmless and harms no one? Then why are British Cannibis factories trafficking in children from the far east to use as slave labour? Think about that next time your chilling out with a harmless joint. [disgust]
Watch the great cannibis conspiracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwd2k9oj0K8
It is quite surprising that, upon relating the true story about hemp, you are liable to disbelieved and laughed at. The average person has been told a totally fabricated story and believes without question. In the banning of hemp we stopped the growing of, in my opinion, the most important plant on earth. This opinion has nothing to do with the drug cannabis but with all the other uses of hemp in everyday life. Of course, hemp thrives on CO2, breathes out oxygen and transfers the carbon to the soil thus making it more fertile. If grown everywhere it could seriously help to clean our atmosphere.
Of course, what do I know.I'm just an old hippy with an overfertile imagination who takes too much dope!!!![evil]
It is quite surprising that, upon relating the true story about hemp, you are liable to disbelieved and laughed at. The average person has been told a totally fabricated story and believes without question. In the banning of hemp we stopped the growing of, in my opinion, the most important plant on earth. This opinion has nothing to do with the drug cannabis but with all the other uses of hemp in everyday life. Of course, hemp thrives on CO2, breathes out oxygen and transfers the carbon to the soil thus making it more fertile. If grown everywhere it could seriously help to clean our atmosphere.
Of course, what do I know.I'm just an old hippy with an overfertile imagination who takes too much dope!!!![evil]
i agree with you.
but we are told lies constantly by those that lord it over us (with there motives and double standards) on just about any and evry isue you can think of
what real right does the govnment have to say we cant grow a plant?
They don't listen because they think they will lose votes, soft on drugs and all that rubbish.
So long as the big parties are singing the same song then drugs won't be an election issue and they can campaign on the usual issues like economy, tax etc.
Yes all those hypocritical politicians who experience of pot was "I smoked a joint but I did not inhale" totally ignore, and sack in the case of Professor david Nutts case, the advice of people who are on the front line of this scourge of our society
Walter Ego
18-Aug-10, 16:28
In the 1920 the early oil Barons such as Rockefeller of standard Oil
Rothschild of Shell etc became paranoicly aware of the posibilites of Henry Fords vision of cheap methanol fuel and kept oil prices incredibly low between $1 and $4 per barrrel (there are 42 gallons in an oil barrel) untilm 1970 almost 50 years!
When they were finaly sure of the lack of competiton the prices of oil jumped to almost $60 + per barel over the next 30 years.
Watch the great cannibis conspiracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwd2k9oj0K8
I lost interest at the point where he said "the fascist TV channels..." YAWN.
It's nothing more than a stoners promotional video. Claiming that hemp can power bio-degradable submarines, enable you to see through walls and make clothing out of pre-digested hemp seeds is all very well.
But, hemp production is not illegal in the UK, you just need a licence to do it and the strain involved is of no benefit to the stoner community. A point which they appear to conveniently miss out.
Would that be because they're not interested in all the wonderful ( and readily available) benefits apart from getting stunned?
No doubt the Bush/Mossad/Windsor triad will crush these beatniks soon.
Cannibis production is so harmless and harms no one? Then why are British Cannibis factories trafficking in children from the far east to use as slave labour? Think about that next time your chilling out with a harmless joint. [disgust]
British cannabis factories are run by Eastern gangs almost exclusively and people trafficing is part of their stock in trade. If not a cannabis factory then a brothel or suchlike. You cannot blame cannabis for their plight.
Legalisation would remove the powerbase of such gangs.
I lost interest at the point where he said "the fascist TV channels..." YAWN.
It's nothing more than a stoners promotional video. Claiming that hemp can power bio-degradable submarines, enable you to see through walls and make clothing out of pre-digested hemp seeds is all very well.
But, hemp production is not illegal in the UK, you just need a licence to do it and the strain involved is of no benefit to the stoner community. A point which they appear to conveniently miss out.
Would that be because they're not interested in all the wonderful ( and readily available) benefits apart from getting stunned?
No doubt the Bush/Mossad/Windsor triad will crush these beatniks soon.
Cannabis was used as the excuse to ban hemp worldwide and the ability to grow it again was only legalised about 20 years ago. Utilising a hemp crop in Britain is not financially viable as there is a shortage of factories to process the plant.The situation regarding the prohibition of hemp is well documented and the process easily followed by the unblinkered mind.
The situation regarding the prohibition of hemp is well documented and the process easily followed by the unblinkered mind.
sort of rules out walt doesnt it?:D
Walter Ego
18-Aug-10, 17:00
Cannabis was used as the excuse to ban hemp worldwide and the ability to grow it again was only legalised about 20 years ago. Utilising a hemp crop in Britain is not financially viable as there is a shortage of factories to process the plant.The situation regarding the prohibition of hemp is well documented and the process easily followed by the unblinkered mind.
Historically correct.
But that was then, this is now.
Hemp is not illegal and hasn't been for twenty years ish - as you say. The reason there isn't the infrastructure in the UK to support a viable hemp industry is because the business community remains unconvinced by hemps' potential. So they won't put their money up on any scale to fund it at the moment until someone nconvinces them that the whole thing isn't just being driven by a bunch of bleary-eyed, cookie munching bongheads with no grip on the realities of market sizes and production costs.
Prove to the people that matter that it is viable and profitable - and then it will happen. The skewed tripe presented in Pegs link does nothing to further the cause in the mainstream. In fact the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers were probably a better promotional tool than that crap.
BTW: Is that unblinkered enough for ya, Pegasus?
redeyedtreefrog
18-Aug-10, 17:13
Cannibis production is so harmless and harms no one? Then why are British Cannibis factories trafficking in children from the far east to use as slave labour? Think about that next time your chilling out with a harmless joint. [disgust]
But if it was decriminalised, then legal cannabis would only come from approved growers not using slave labour.
Historically correct.
But that was then, this is now.
Hemp is not illegal and hasn't been for twenty years ish - as you say. The reason there isn't the infrastructure in the UK to support a viable hemp industry is because the business community remains unconvinced by hemps' potential. So they won't put their money up on any scale to fund it at the moment until someone nconvinces them that the whole thing isn't just being driven by a bunch of bleary-eyed, cookie munching bongheads with no grip on the realities of market sizes and production costs.
Prove to the people that matter that it is viable and profitable - and then it will happen. The skewed tripe presented in Pegs link does nothing to further the cause in the mainstream. In fact the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers were probably a better promotional tool than that crap.
BTW: Is that unblinkered enough for ya, Pegasus?
"a bunch of bleary-eyed, cookie munching bongheads with no grip on the realities of market sizes and production costs" hahaha. good one:lol:
but considring the wide uses for this plant youre claiming youre post to be unblinked in saying the plant is uneconomic is abit rich
the good ole govnment keeps a lid on legal uses and makes a mint out of illegality of this plant
the war on hemp has been nothjiing but deception and deciet. which brings us back tyo ... :eek:
its been banned by "the greatest villains every to set foot upon the earth" and fairly recently.
the US declaration of Independance was drafted on hemp paper. George washington proclaimed its value and virtues.
you casn run youre car on it. have clothes and footwear made from it. it can cure cancer.
but enuff for now
Walter Ego
18-Aug-10, 17:27
"a bunch of bleary-eyed, cookie munching bongheads with no grip on the realities of market sizes and production costs" hahaha. good one:lol:
but considring the wide uses for this plant youre claiming youre post to be unblinked in saying the plant is uneconomic is abit rich
the good ole govnment keeps a lid on legal uses and makes a mint out of illegality of this plant
the war on hemp has been nothjiing but deception and deciet. which brings us back tyo ... :eek:
its been banned by "the greatest villains every to set foot upon the earth" and fairly recently.
the US declaration of Independance was drafted on hemp paper. George washington proclaimed its value and virtues.
you casn run youre car on it. have clothes and footwear made from it. it can cure cancer.
but enuff for now
I didn't say it was unviable. I said that the business community would need to be convinced of it's viabilty.
Bear in mind that there are many farmers who would be keen to switch to a new crop if there was money in it.
There's no point on me commenting on your views of the governments alleged 'control' of the illegal drug market as we will never agree.:Razz
". George washington proclaimed its value and virtues.
George Washington grew it. He obtained a lot of his cuttings fron Sir John Sinclair, Baronet from Caithness and stated in a letter to the Baronet that the flowering tops of cutting number 3 were excellent to smoke. Historical fact. A friend of mine actually saw the letter. I wonder if he was "a bleary-eyed, cookie munching bonghead with no grip on the realities of market sizes and production costs" .
Legalisation would remove the powerbase of such gangs.
Im all for incapacitating the ruthles violent drug traffcking crims who monopolize the markets. [evil]
Walter Ego
18-Aug-10, 22:22
George Washington grew it. He obtained a lot of his cuttings fron Sir John Sinclair, Baronet from Caithness and stated in a letter to the Baronet that the flowering tops of cutting number 3 were excellent to smoke. Historical fact. A friend of mine actually saw the letter. I wonder if he was "a bleary-eyed, cookie munching bonghead with no grip on the realities of market sizes and production costs" .
And the C19th is littered with the remains of people who thought smoking opium (now illegal, in case you hadn't noticed) was a good thing.
George Washington had a good toke - therefore it must be OK and he must have had a good grasp of C21st business economics.[lol]
FFS you couldn't make this argument any more ridiculous after a week in Hamsters.
My work here is done.......
And the C19th is littered with the remains of people who thought smoking opium (now illegal, in case you hadn't noticed) was a good thing.
George Washington had a good toke - therefore it must be OK and he must have had a good grasp of C21st business economics.[lol]
FFS you couldn't make this argument any more ridiculous after a week in Hamsters.
My work here is done.......
You draw your conclusions from a statement of historical fact. Never once did I state that cannabis was good or otherwise in that post.. Opium versus cannabis? How ridiculous.
And the C19th is littered with the remains of people who thought smoking opium (now illegal, in case you hadn't noticed) was a good thing.
George Washington had a good toke - therefore it must be OK and he must have had a good grasp of C21st business economics.[lol]
FFS you couldn't make this argument any more ridiculous after a week in Hamsters.
My work here is done.......
opium is addictive and can be very dangerous. isnt it youre sarcasm and reasoning :confused that is ridiculous?
Walter Ego
19-Aug-10, 08:27
opium is addictive and can be very dangerous. isnt it youre sarcasm and reasoning :confused that is ridiculous?
I was using opium as an example of a substance that was viewed as being relatively harmless, historically speaking. I could have used anyone from a whole range of substances that are now perceived to be dangerous or illegal.
Gleber2: it was you who alluded to Washington to give credibility to your argument about viability and acceptance. If recall, you asked if Washington was a "bleary eyed...." thus implying that his enjoyment of the hemp was somehow to be taken as giving the argument for hemp production and acceptability more kudos.
As I said, a laughable statement.
Gleber2: it was you who alluded to Washington to give credibility to your argument about viability and acceptance. If recall, you asked if Washington was a "bleary eyed...." thus implying that his enjoyment of the hemp was somehow to be taken as giving the argument for hemp production and acceptability more kudos.
As I said, a laughable statement.
Your interpretation. In fact I was using Washington as an example to illustrate your rather prejudiced attitude. I present fact you reply with opinion.
Walter Ego
19-Aug-10, 12:54
Your interpretation. In fact I was using Washington as an example to illustrate your rather prejudiced attitude. I present fact you reply with opinion.
I have presented no prejudice. I have never stated either way whether I am for or against the legalisation of Cannabis/hemp. Please do not make assumptions - you're way off, anyway. Stop digging.
I'm arguing the point that the pro-Hemp/Cannabis people are prone to using clumsy and easily ridiculed arguments that will not be taken seriously by the mainstream. I am attempting to point out the reasons why hemp production will never happen on a grand scale using the pro-arguments used by those who wish to smoke it.
Hemp production on a commercial scale will only take place in the UK if it is made financially viable, socially acceptable to those (the majority of people in the UK) who cannot differentiate between different strains of hemp and if the infrastructure is backed by the UK government.
I have presented no prejudice. I have never stated either way whether I am for or against the legalisation of Cannabis/hemp. Please do not make assumptions - you're way off, anyway. Stop digging.
I'm arguing the point that the pro-Hemp/Cannabis people are prone to using clumsy and easily ridiculed arguments that will not be taken seriously by the mainstream. I am attempting to point out the reasons why hemp production will never happen on a grand scale using the pro-arguments used by those who wish to smoke it.
Hemp production on a commercial scale will only take place in the UK if it is made financially viable, socially acceptable to those (the majority of people in the UK) who cannot differentiate between different strains of hemp and if the infrastructure is backed by the UK government.
The government were offering £675 per hectare as a subsidy to hemp growers. However, the regulations stated that only government approved seeds were to be used with a THC content of 0.0001% and that the plantations were not to be visible from a main road which put off many potential growers. Most hemp products that were available were coming from Hungary and China and were very expensive to import. However, at this time I can buy hemp oil and seeds from Tescos, soap etc from various chemist shops and hemp clothes are relatively easy to source which would indicate that the market is getting ready for a hemp invasion. I think you underestimate the public reaction as many hemp products have been available for quite some time and even the most ignorant are beginning to realise the potential. I have a speaker with a hemp cone from the USA, a guitar strap made from Hungarian hemp and oil from Tescos.
Hemp fibre is many times better than tree pulp for paper (and as it grows to 20feet or more in 4-5 months is much more sensible than cutting down a tree that has taken years to grow), its seeds are very high in protein,
its oil has all the essential fatty acids we need in excellent balance and, as it is 75% cellulose, it makes good plastic. It is self fertilising and keeps its own space clear and will grow anywhere. In fact it is used by many South American farmers to enhance the fertility of barren ground along with certain beans like soya as the plant thrives on excess CO2 and feeds carbon to the ground. Both of these rotating crops produce much biomass
which is ploughed back into the soil thus making, over time, fertile soil from useless ground.
It is, in my opinion, absolute insanity not to utilise this plant in the face of the world situation regarding food, fuel and pollution.
The "Hippy" written books like Jack Herrer's "the Emperor Wears No Clothes" are written from historical and accurate sources and can be checked. We come from a country which could not have functioned without hemp as every schooner needed about 50 tons of hemp to go to sea. The Earl of Caithness made a lot of cash from it. with major plantations at places like Hempriggs.
That the hemp plant was made illegal by political sleaze with cannabis being the excuse is fact, not opinion and, when the realities of the market place at the time are seen and understood, the fact is easily accepted.
Hearst Newspapers were telling the public that to smoke one reefer would lead to death, a statement that was totally wrong in the light of the knowledge that there is only one death ever that has been attributed to cannabis consumption. However, the gullible public believed and still believes the scurrilous pack of lies and we still have, in complete ignorance of the facts, a large body of the people who cannot accept facts but stick with the tales spread by those who stood to make considerable profit from the removal of hemp from an ignorant world.
The ignorance and stigma continues and we continue to cut down the trees and pollute the planet with no thought for the furure.
The government were offering £675 per hectare as a subsidy to hemp growers. However, the regulations stated that only government approved seeds were to be used with a THC content of 0.0001% and that the plantations were not to be visible from a main road which put off many potential growers. Most hemp products that were available were coming from Hungary and China and were very expensive to import. However, at this time I can buy hemp oil and seeds from Tescos, soap etc from various chemist shops and hemp clothes are relatively easy to source which would indicate that the market is getting ready for a hemp invasion. I think you underestimate the public reaction as many hemp products have been available for quite some time and even the most ignorant are beginning to realise the potential. I have a speaker with a hemp cone from the USA, a guitar strap made from Hungarian hemp and oil from Tescos.
Hemp fibre is many times better than tree pulp for paper (and as it grows to 20feet or more in 4-5 months is much more sensible than cutting down a tree that has taken years to grow), its seeds are very high in protean,
its oil has all the essential fatty acids we need in excellent balance and, as it is 75% cellulose, it makes good plastic. It is self fertilising and keeps its own space clear and will grow anywhere. In fact it is used by many South American farmers to enhance the fertility of barren ground along with certain beans like soya as the plant thrives on excess CO2 and feeds carbon to the ground. Both of these rotating crops produce much biomass
which is ploughed back into the soil thus making, over time, fertile soil from useless ground.
It is, in my opinion, absolute insanity not to utilise this plant in the face of the world situation regarding food, fuel and pollution.
The "Hippy" written books like Jack Herrer's "the Emperor Wears No Clothes" are written from historical and accurate sources and can be checked. We come from a country which could not have functioned without hemp as every schooner needed about 50 tons of hemp to go to sea. The Earl of Caithness made a lot of cash from it. with major plantations at places like Hempriggs.
That the hemp plant was made illegal by political sleaze with cannabis being the excuse is fact, not opinion and, when the realities of the market place at the time are seen and understood, the fact is easily accepted.
Hearst Newspapers were telling the public that to smoke one reefer would lead to death, a statement that was totally wrong in the light of the knowledge that there is only one death ever that has been attributed to cannabis consumption. However, the gullible public believed and still believes the scurrilous pack of lies and we still have, in complete ignorance of the facts, a large body of the people who cannot accept facts but stick with the tales spread by those who stood to make considerable profit from the removal of hemp from an ignorant world.
The ignorance and stigma continues and we continue to cut down the trees and pollute the planet with no thought for the furure.
Exceptional post especialy "That the hemp plant was made illegal by political sleaze with cannabis being the excuse is fact, not opinion and, when the realities of the market place at the time are seen and understood, the fact is easily accepted.
Hearst Newspapers were telling the public that to smoke one reefer would lead to death, a statement that was totally wrong in the light of the knowledge that there is only one death ever that has been attributed to cannabis consumption. However, the gullible public believed and still believes the scurrilous pack of lies and we still have, in complete ignorance of the facts, a large body of the people who cannot accept facts but stick with the tales spread by those who stood to make considerable profit from the removal of hemp from an ignorant world."
Jack Herers book should be required reading in schools
on average people are dying of hungre every 3.6 sec yet hemp seeds are highly nutritious and economical containing 2 esential fatty acids which are great for circulatioln, protein with 8 amino acids, dietry fiber, it is a "wonder food."
it is banned on the basis of lies as gleber2 states and to ensure that the rich and corrupt remioan even more rich and corupt
it is big pharma that should be banned not hemp
Walter Ego
19-Aug-10, 17:17
The government were offering £675 per hectare as a subsidy to hemp growers. However, the regulations stated that only government approved seeds were to be used with a THC content of 0.0001% and that the plantations were not to be visible from a main road which put off many potential growers. Most hemp products that were available were coming from Hungary and China and were very expensive to import. However, at this time I can buy hemp oil and seeds from Tescos, soap etc from various chemist shops and hemp clothes are relatively easy to source which would indicate that the market is getting ready for a hemp invasion. I think you underestimate the public reaction as many hemp products have been available for quite some time and even the most ignorant are beginning to realise the potential. I have a speaker with a hemp cone from the USA, a guitar strap made from Hungarian hemp and oil from Tescos.
Hemp fibre is many times better than tree pulp for paper (and as it grows to 20feet or more in 4-5 months is much more sensible than cutting down a tree that has taken years to grow), its seeds are very high in protein,
its oil has all the essential fatty acids we need in excellent balance and, as it is 75% cellulose, it makes good plastic. It is self fertilising and keeps its own space clear and will grow anywhere. In fact it is used by many South American farmers to enhance the fertility of barren ground along with certain beans like soya as the plant thrives on excess CO2 and feeds carbon to the ground. Both of these rotating crops produce much biomass
which is ploughed back into the soil thus making, over time, fertile soil from useless ground.
It is, in my opinion, absolute insanity not to utilise this plant in the face of the world situation regarding food, fuel and pollution.
The "Hippy" written books like Jack Herrer's "the Emperor Wears No Clothes" are written from historical and accurate sources and can be checked. We come from a country which could not have functioned without hemp as every schooner needed about 50 tons of hemp to go to sea. The Earl of Caithness made a lot of cash from it. with major plantations at places like Hempriggs.
That the hemp plant was made illegal by political sleaze with cannabis being the excuse is fact, not opinion and, when the realities of the market place at the time are seen and understood, the fact is easily accepted.
Hearst Newspapers were telling the public that to smoke one reefer would lead to death, a statement that was totally wrong in the light of the knowledge that there is only one death ever that has been attributed to cannabis consumption. However, the gullible public believed and still believes the scurrilous pack of lies and we still have, in complete ignorance of the facts, a large body of the people who cannot accept facts but stick with the tales spread by those who stood to make considerable profit from the removal of hemp from an ignorant world.
The ignorance and stigma continues and we continue to cut down the trees and pollute the planet with no thought for the furure.
And I already know most of that and agree with it 100%.
To reiterate my point, clumsy videos on youtube will alienate many.
As long as pro-smokers continue to attach themselves to the many and varied uses for hemp to further their own cause, then they will automatically set themselves up as a target by the tabloids, cheap shot politicians and 'Angry of Surbiton'. And the positive sides of hemp will become collateral damage in the pro/anti smoke war.
Distance hemp from the smokers and you've won a big battle and half the war. Then you can start working on the big financial institutions and businesses to invest in hemp production. Grants for growing are only part of the production cycle, the infrastructure for processing and marketing will all need huge investment.
And I already know most of that and agree with it 100%.
To reiterate my point, clumsy videos on youtube will alienate many.
As long as pro-smokers continue to attach themselves to the many and varied uses for hemp to further their own cause, then they will automatically set themselves up as a target by the tabloids, cheap shot politicians and 'Angry of Surbiton'. And the positive sides of hemp will become collateral damage in the pro/anti smoke war.
Distance hemp from the smokers and you've won a big battle and half the war. Then you can start working on the big financial institutions and businesses to invest in hemp production. Grants for growing are only part of the production cycle, the infrastructure for processing and marketing will all need huge investment.
An area seeded across Canada is expected to increase from 14000 acres
in 2009 to 25000 acres this Spring.
Unfortuanely there are so many stipilations atached to growing hemp.
Even although hemp contains only miniscul trace amounts of THC
(active ingredint in marijuana) yet its still a controlled subatance
Getting a license to grow hemp is not easy.
http://hempnews.tv/2010/04/08/canada%E2%80%99s-hemp-acreage-on-the-rise/
that was good link i put up. i found this on it (well worthy a look)-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMM_T_PJ0Rs&feature=player_embedded
Peggy PH ;)
Welcomefamily
20-Aug-10, 17:55
A quick post on the subject; firstly and foremost cannabis can in a very small proportion of the population be extremely dangerous, it potentiates the development of schizo affective disorders and can also cause mild paranoia.
Lets not forget it is a very mild hallucingen and therefore there is a risk when you start playing around with post and pre synaptic receptor cells and the chance of long term damage. At the same time there are risks to smoking and drinking.
It is a case of balancing these risks, drugs are often assocated with many of the negative things seen on people posts and often by driving them underground they are subject to further abuse and often this increases the risks.
For example: in the late 70s a certain South West Health Authority caused panic when they suggested starting a needle exchange as they felt it would reduce the possible spread of HIV by reducing the shared needle concept.
I cant think of any one in Neuro Psychiatry / Neuro Psychology who would say taking drugs is better than not taking drugs, however they are often require for pain etc. However as a proportion of people dont have self control and are addicted, it is a case of balancing the damage caused by these things being supplied illegally along with its production methods against having these things supplied and regulated. Its the lesser of two evils.
Isn't it true that religion can cause hysteria, hallucinations, paranoia?
Welcomefamily
20-Aug-10, 18:56
I never come across a case of straight forward religion causing paranoia or hallucinations. Anxiety and stress can over a long term influence both receptor sites as well as enzymic release of break down substances.
If might be the case that the mental illness was there in the first place and one of the problems with mental illness is the social isolation it causes and a general stigmatisation.
This social isolation can be reduced by joining groups that allow a diverse membership and membership of that group will also provide support that might help an individual come to terms with feelings that are often associated with guilt and the need for its forgiveness.
That is therefore not to say that the church is full of people with mental illness, it would be foolish to make that sort of generalisation.
I think the saying is one mans hope is another man crutch.
Hope your keeping well
A quick post on the subject; firstly and foremost cannabis can in a very small proportion of the population be extremely dangerous, it potentiates the development of schizo affective disorders and can also cause mild paranoia.
Lets not forget it is a very mild hallucingen and therefore there is a risk when you start playing around with post and pre synaptic receptor cells and the chance of long term damage. At the same time there are risks to smoking and drinking.
It is a case of balancing these risks, drugs are often assocated with many of the negative things seen on people posts and often by driving them underground they are subject to further abuse and often this increases the risks.
For example: in the late 70s a certain South West Health Authority caused panic when they suggested starting a needle exchange as they felt it would reduce the possible spread of HIV by reducing the shared needle concept.
I cant think of any one in Neuro Psychiatry / Neuro Psychology who would say taking drugs is better than not taking drugs, however they are often require for pain etc. However as a proportion of people dont have self control and are addicted, it is a case of balancing the damage caused by these things being supplied illegally along with its production methods against having these things supplied and regulated. Its the lesser of two evils.
A large percentage of the population experience serious bad effects fron alcohol consumption, much worse than mild paranoia etc and it still legal. Are the huge numbers of people who suffer no ill effects whatsoever from cannabis consumption going to be denied the right to choose because a small number of people suffer bad effects from it? Not fair or logical.
Junkys are Junkys...who cares what they think :roll:
Junkys are Junkys...who cares what they think :roll:
Define junky or junkie as it is usually spelt.
rogermellie
21-Aug-10, 00:13
my personal definition would be a person who is either physically or mentally dependent on a drug whether it be controlled or not and whether they are prescribed it by their doctor, buy it from a dealer or pop into tescos for it.
if you can't go through the day without it ... you're a junkie
caffeine/dope/nicotine/alcohol/whatever ... yer a JUNKIE !!!
my personal definition would be a person who is either physically or mentally dependent on a drug whether it be controlled or not and whether they are prescribed it by their doctor, buy it from a dealer or pop into tescos for it.
if you can't go through the day without it ... you're a junkie
caffeine/dope/nicotine/alcohol/whatever ... yer a JUNKIE !!!
Although I would go along with your definition, technically speaking, a junkie is someone who is dependent on junk, i.e. heroin.
rogermellie
21-Aug-10, 01:13
touche mon turtle, you are of course correct in terms of the word 'junk', but in modern parlance 'junkie' has become a watered down definition of the previous badge holders.
a junkie is a lot of things to different people, but you're right, at the end of the day it will always be associated with the users and abusers of heroin.
however ..... lets be clear that being a heroin using junkie doesn't preclude a person from being a fully functioning, employed person ... without any social work involvement :cool:
touche mon turtle, you are of course correct in terms of the word 'junk', but in modern parlance 'junkie' has become a watered down definition of the previous badge holders.
a junkie is a lot of things to different people, but you're right, at the end of the day it will always be associated with the users and abusers of heroin.
however ..... lets be clear that being a heroin using junkie doesn't preclude a person from being a fully functioning, employed person ... without any social work involvement :cool:
Apart from the obvious drawback of its addictive properties, heroin is supposedly less harmful to the body than white sugar. If the user can source a regular clean source of pure heroin, he or she can live as long as a nonuser and can pursue a normal life. Most of the problems ascociated with heroin use are caused by impurities in the drug on the streets and the malnutrician suffered by people who have to spend all they have to feed their addiction. Prohibition is exacerbating the situation. Supply addicts with a clean supply and most of the problems will be greatly reduced.
Welcomefamily
21-Aug-10, 10:36
A large percentage of the population experience serious bad effects fron alcohol consumption, much worse than mild paranoia etc and it still legal. Are the huge numbers of people who suffer no ill effects whatsoever from cannabis consumption going to be denied the right to choose because a small number of people suffer bad effects from it? Not fair or logical.
I certainly agree alcohol is a major problem, you only have to go to any A&E on a Friday or Saturday night.
Smoking is also a problem in its long term costs to the Health Authorities, many people who take Cannabis tend to smoke it at home and for them it is only slightly more problematic then normal smoking except for a slightly greater risk of long term neurological changes as found in conditions like Alzheimers.
However as drugs go these two are better than any thing that has a direct influence on Dopamine or catecholamine pathways.
Like any drug the ability to act in moderation is the important bit, if you smoke it, you will have some long term influence.
Welcomefamily
21-Aug-10, 10:57
[quote=Gleber2;750668]Apart from the obvious drawback of its addictive properties, heroin is supposedly less harmful to the body than white sugar. If the user can source a regular clean source of pure heroin, he or she can live as long as a nonuser and can pursue a normal life.
I would have to disagree with the above statement totally, perhaps one look at the side effects of diamorphine would also disagree however the respiratory depression is what causes most damage in addicts and those using for pain relief.
Lots of good studies on the internet for supervised provision, Canada, Germany, just google heroin.
[quote=Gleber2;750668]Apart from the obvious drawback of its addictive properties, heroin is supposedly less harmful to the body than white sugar. If the user can source a regular clean source of pure heroin, he or she can live as long as a nonuser and can pursue a normal life.
I would have to disagree with the above statement totally, perhaps one look at the side effects of diamorphine would also disagree however the respiratory depression is what causes most damage in addicts and those using for pain relief.
Lots of good studies on the internet for supervised provision, Canada, Germany, just google heroin.
What I stated I got from a BBC program I saw some years ago which drew the conclusions I posted.
As a working musician for forty years with a involvement in the drug world, I have seem many many more people with alcohol problems than any other drug including heroin. Hundreds die from drugs per se (540ish) in Scotland last year. I wonder how many thousands died in the same period from alcohol and nicotine related causes and how many developed psychological problems. To say that nicotine and alcohol are better than every other drug is downright wrong.
[quote=Gleber2;750668]Apart from the obvious drawback of its addictive properties, heroin is supposedly less harmful to the body than white sugar. If the user can source a regular clean source of pure heroin, he or she can live as long as a nonuser and can pursue a normal life.
This is true Welcomefamily pure heroin isnt that toxic to human organs
but it casues fatalities as its easy to overdose on it.
The adulteratid heroin on the streets various from deler to dealer
and common adulterints are lactose cafeine benzodiaepines (sp)
builders plaster talc and even brick dust.
Paracetamol is the comonest adulteratirant.
Benzodiaepines valium is a prescribed tranquiliser which has created 1.5 million
'involuntary adicts' in the UK alone!
Big mopney for the Pharma Companies. [disgust]
The danger caused by legaly prescribed drugs is
scandalis and disgraceful.
[quote=Welcomefamily;750729]
Benzodiaepines valium is a prescribed tranquiliser which has created 1.5 million
'involuntary adicts' in the UK alone!
Big mopney for the Pharma Companies. [disgust]
The danger caused by legaly prescribed drugs is
scandalis and disgraceful.
Too true. I know quite a number of people who are addicted to heavy painkillers and this number is growing.
A woman claimed that her Westies couldnt get up in the morning because they were high.
She complained about the strong smell next door and
it turned out after investigations that the Police discovered 3 bedrooms full of canibis plants
She stated that the odour made her cough worse but since cannibis has a dilatiory effect on the lungs
I dont see how it would have made her symtoms worse.
Dogs getting high by just smelling the plants is this possible? :roll:
Isn't it true that religion can cause hysteria, hallucinations, paranoia?
Its also true that we are all subject to delusions and fantasies.
Religin for most people is what they want to believe
not what they believe.
Any doctrine that disrupts a persos thinking mental health and ability to
relate to others is evil.
Voltaire summed it up when he said
"men who believe absurdities will commit atrocities".
I thought this was quite fitting for the thread:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11054730
To summarise it's a story about 4 men who were mutilated & murdered before being hung from a bridge as a warning to others about which cartel to support in a drugs cartel war.
This gives an insight into things on a different level:
"The Beltran Leyva organisation is believed to have the most sophisticated intelligence of any of the Mexican drug cartels, and controls firms involved in, among others, transportation, electronics, health products and hospitality."
The drug business on a worldwide level turns over an incredible ammount of money which, of course, gives much power to the gangs who make the profit. To the point, some believe, that they can take over governments. This sort of wealth gives the gangs a vested interest in keeping drugs illegal. Legalise all drugs accross the board and the criminals will no longer be able to generate these vast profits.
If this legalisation were to happen the drugs would be under direct government control and the initiative would be in government hands to educate the public and do everything to stop the use of addictive and dangerous substances instead of being in the hands of people who actively push these substances to increase sales.
California, I believe is on the verge of legalising cannabis and Mexico is looking for alternatives to the present status quo. Blanket legalisation could well put a stop to the ongoing violence in Mexico.
Most true experts in the field are now stating, not that we are losing the drug war, but indeed that we have lost it. The home office, of course, states that we will never have legalisation as cocaine, heroin and cannabis are causing chaos across the country. To class heroin and cocaine along with cannabis is insane. the only thing in common between the three is the fact that they are illegal.
Of course we have a housewife as Home Secretary who obviously believes the stories that we have been misinformed with for many years.
If any improvement is to be made then a completely new and honest assesment must be made as the problem is escalating with every day that passes.
rob murray
23-Aug-10, 17:04
The drug business on a worldwide level turns over an incredible ammount of money which, of course, gives much power to the gangs who make the profit. To the point, some believe, that they can take over governments. This sort of wealth gives the gangs a vested interest in keeping drugs illegal. Legalise all drugs accross the board and the criminals will no longer be able to generate these vast profits.
If this legalisation were to happen the drugs would be under direct government control and the initiative would be in government hands to educate the public and do everything to stop the use of addictive and dangerous substances instead of being in the hands of people who actively push these substances to increase sales.
California, I believe is on the verge of legalising cannabis and Mexico is looking for alternatives to the present status quo. Blanket legalisation could well put a stop to the ongoing violence in Mexico.
Most true experts in the field are now stating, not that we are losing the drug war, but indeed that we have lost it. The home office, of course, states that we will never have legalisation as cocaine, heroin and cannabis are causing chaos across the country. To class heroin and cocaine along with cannabis is insane. the only thing in common between the three is the fact that they are illegal.
Of course we have a housewife as Home Secretary how obviously believes the stories that we have been misinformed with for many years.
If any improvement is to be made then a completely new and honest assesment must be made as the problem is escalating with every day that passes.
Yep spot on, home office scientific advisers have been having considerable difficulty upholding the "party line" hence their resignations. To have an open and honest policy debate would mean comming clean on populist myths peddled by the mass media circus and "partially /wholly" endorsed by politicians, seeking the populist "basildon man" vote . The situation is so grave that the debate has to be above party politics, which Im afraid is why this will not happen ! A circular arguement in fact
Yep spot on, home office scientific advisers have been having considerable difficulty upholding the "party line" hence their resignations. To have an open and honest policy debate would mean comming clean on populist myths peddled by the mass media circus and "partially /wholly" endorsed by politicians, seeking the populist "basildon man" vote . The situation is so grave that the debate has to be above party politics, which Im afraid is why this will not happen ! A circular arguement in fact
Well said and completely true. But, by God, if we've ever had a drug problem' we certainly have one now.
Margaret M.
23-Aug-10, 19:11
California, I believe is on the verge of legalising cannabis and Mexico is looking for alternatives to the present status quo. Blanket legalisation could well put a stop to the ongoing violence in Mexico.
Most true experts in the field are now stating, not that we are losing the drug war, but indeed that we have lost it.
California vote on it in November -- I hope it passes and other states follow suit. The war on drugs was lost many moons ago and the money and resources used to fight a lost battle should be put to better use.
California vote on it in November -- I hope it passes and other states follow suit. The war on drugs was lost many moons ago and the money and resources used to fight a lost battle should be put to better use.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that it was the legalisation of cannabis that was going to the vote. Cannabis is the drug of least consequence and harm but its legalisation will, in fact, do little to ease the scourge of the Class A's and chemicals.
Margaret M.
23-Aug-10, 19:26
Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that it was the legalisation of cannabis that was going to the vote. Cannabis is the drug of least consequence and harm but its legalisation will, in fact, do little to ease the scourge of the Class A's and chemicals.
Right, just cannabis, but if it passes it will be a step in the right direction.
I thought this was quite fitting for the thread:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11054730
To summarise it's a story about 4 men who were mutilated & murdered before being hung from a bridge as a warning to others about which cartel to support in a drugs cartel war.
This gives an insight into things on a different level:
"The Beltran Leyva organisation is believed to have the most sophisticated intelligence of any of the Mexican drug cartels, and controls firms involved in, among others, transportation, electronics, health products and hospitality."
Mexico is in the top ten of most dangerous plaes to visit.
The brutal ruthless drug cartels haev turned the area into a battlefield vying for control. [evil]
Students are becoing part of the Mexican drug cartels and some pay for it with there lives.
I noticed a sign for Acupolco when I clicked the link kidnapping, lucrattive crime and scams by transit police.
They target rich Americans pull them over even although they have done nothing wrong threaten the tourists
and then the "officers" rob them.
Could be worse as sometimes you will get beaten up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJsmr0suhl0
Folk say that all heroin users start off on cannabis, which to me, is the same as saying all motorists start off with a bicycle.
Folk say that all heroin users start off on cannabis, which to me, is the same as saying all motorists start off with a bicycle.
Or on two feet.
Or on two feet.
or by being born
Mexico is in the top ten of most dangerous plaes to visit.
The brutal ruthless drug cartels haev turned the area into a battlefield vying for control. [evil]
Students are becoing part of the Mexican drug cartels and some pay for it with there lives.
I noticed a sign for Acupolco when I clicked the link kidnapping, lucrattive crime and scams by transit police.
They target rich Americans pull them over even although they have done nothing wrong threaten the tourists
and then the "officers" rob them.
Could be worse as sometimes you will get beaten up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJsmr0suhl0
Sounds like wick[lol] jk It's nice here.
Sounds like wick[lol]
hahaha
didnt they have a sort of war over a orange?:lol:
Latest expert opinion.
http://news.aol.co.uk/stigma-issues-for-heroin-addicts/article/20100823191522761007525
Very much reflected on this forum.
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