View Full Version : jesus christ....
when i wis on ma way til america i stop't off at 'e casino in edinburgh an met up wi' an auld pal who is a historian. i said til him in a previous conversation that i wisna sure if jesus even existed!!
bein a historian he telt me that he definaltely did lek. he telt me a few things aboot 'wur man' an i took lots o' notes an decided til do ma own research.
i may hev mentioned when i wis in 'e states i went roond lots o' 2nd han' bookshops. i came across a book called, "the mystical life o' jesus" by syliva broone - an author that am very familiar wi'.
there is so much that i didna ken aboot 'e man!! lek, that he wis merried til mary magdalene....she wisna a whore....an his mam wisna a virgin either :D
i now, ken all aboot 'e worlds beegest conspiracy ever known (or unknown) til mankind. how they crucified him because they hed til, til keep 'e peace an that pontius pilate pretended til kill jesus but then helped til set him free an hid him fie 'e sanhedrin an' 'e pharisees. an that he (an mary) went on til live for many many years, hevin bairns an ivrythin. they lived in france, i think.
oh ma gaud!!! this is all new information til me :eek:
ma friend, (he's a spiritual man an helped me regain ma faith again - for that, i thank him) he says that jesus wis an archangel, a special entity an hed direct contact wi "our father...which art in heaven"
so, ma question is....wis jesus really a mystical man....or simply, choost a man?
'iss whole thing hes turned ma heid an now i hev lots o' books til read....i even bot, "the hystorical life of jesus.....for dummies"
so, whats 'e gen then?
i da want til offend anyone or 'at. i said til an auld wifie, "see jesus an mary magdalene wis merried" an she went off 'e heid :eek: she says 'e bible is 'e true scriptures an people can write anything nowadays.
she hes o' course got a point but i didna want til risk a beatin by sayin that 'e bible wis edited thousands o' times by 'e early church.
mind, im so easy influenced....il believe anythin ye tell me!!!
ShelleyCowie
10-Aug-10, 21:06
im so easy influenced....il believe anythin ye tell me!!!
You owe me £1000 trix ma love :cool:
We'll never know the truth; the truth having been corrupted/altered to suit whichever belief. You believe what you want Trix, but keep an open mind, so many have an opinion, and it's exactly that, just an opinion, not fact. Carry on enjoying your 'new' journey. :)
John Little
10-Aug-10, 21:09
This is outside my range of study Trix but I would advise caution from the historical point of view. It's my understanding that the first piece of evidence for a man named Jesus dates from about 120 years after he is supposed to have lived.
That is to say that there is not a single shred of primary evidence on him - it's all secondary.
Given the state of the media, of history, of communications at the time it would be very hard to find any solid provenance to give him an historical treatment.
When it comes down to Jesus it's probably best to use St Thomas Aquinas's advice that there are truths of faith and truths of reason and they cannot and do not contradict each other. To try to use reason to prove faith is self defeating.
Conversely the life and work of Jesus is a matter of faith; one chooses to believe or not. And it cannot be contradicted by reason.
If you follow the man you do not need rationale or justification. Just your faith.
But like I said - it's not my field so that's all I can say.
Mary Magdlene was not a whore. she was branded as a whore by the Roman church in 5 hundred and something.
Mary Magdalene was called the 'companion' of Jesus in the gospel of philip and in those days 'companion' meant spouse as stated in da vinci code
*waits eagerly for a religious debate*
DeHaviLand
10-Aug-10, 22:23
Mary Magdlene was not a whore. she was branded as a whore by the Roman church in 5 hundred and something.
Mary Magdalene was called the 'companion' of Jesus in the gospel of philip and in those days 'companion' meant spouse as stated in da vinci code
Wait! You cant possibly use The Da Vinci Code to justify anything. It was a work of fiction, and a poor one at that. The Gospel according to Dan Brown? Maybe not.
It's my understanding that the first piece of evidence for a man named Jesus dates from about 120 years after he is supposed to have lived.
yeah, yer rite john, i cana find any scriptures that were written before 120 AD. even magdalene's gospels.
'e book for dummies says that jesus wis 'probly' borne aboot 6 - 4 years BC. mary wis more than 10 years yownger than him...so how could 'at be?
il hev til consult wi' ma pal aboot 'at aine :confused
Mary Magdalene was called the 'companion' of Jesus in the gospel of philip and in those days 'companion' meant spouse as stated in da vinci code
apparently he used til kiss her on 'e mooth on front o' people...regularly! sounds prity merried til me.
Wait! You cant possibly use The Da Vinci Code to justify anything. It was a work of fiction, and a poor one at that. The Gospel according to Dan Brown? Maybe not.
no its not pure fiction. the gospel of philip does realy exist. Mary is realy described in that gospel as jesus wife
this window in kilmore church onm Mull depicts jesus and mary magdalene together and notice that mary is pregnant
http://www.sacredconnections.co.uk/holyland/images/jesus-mary.jpg
Metalattakk
11-Aug-10, 02:41
no its not pure fiction.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z55/Metalattakk/Facepalmjesus-facepalm-facepalm.jpg
no its not pure fiction. the gospel of philip does realy exist. Mary is realy described in that gospel as jesus wife
this window in kilmore church onm Mull depicts jesus and mary magdalene together and notice that mary is pregnant
http://www.sacredconnections.co.uk/holyland/images/jesus-mary.jpg
Not Pregnant-fat. And why are Ant & Dec in the top pane? (or it could be Paul & Ringo) :eek:
The Angel Of Death
11-Aug-10, 09:50
What about the scriptures of judus ? I remember watching a program on them and it provided a really good slant on the whole JC story
Basically the long and short of it was that judus didn't betray JC he helped him die as JC had had enough of life on earth and wanted to return to heaven and judus as one of his most trusted friends helped arrange this but knew by doing so he would be forever remembered as the person who betrayed JC
As for JC himself I think he did exist but I don't think it was to the level that we read and hear about him I think he was just a man and nothing more basically the church was nothing more than a good PR machine
They say history is written by the victor and you can bet anything you want that the bible / scriptures have been written ripped up and rewritten countless times and specifically moulded to fit into whatever mould the church required / wanted at the time
This can be seen in my view by the fact there is very little about JC in the bible until he is an adult I mean that to me is a bit funny because we all have a history good or bad many a person would kill to have there early history erased or forgotten about I just find it outrageous that we have to take 2nd hand information as gospel (no pun intended ;) )
As pointed out above all this information came about hundreds of years after the event took place we all know that stories and information has a habit of growing arms and legs when told from one person to another and I think the story of JC is nothing more than that
That is my opinion and its not something I have researched just bits and pieces I have picked up along the way
Not Pregnant-fat. And why are Ant & Dec in the top pane? (or it could be Paul & Ringo) :eek:
cetrainly looks like the later stages of pregnancy to me. besides the 'Madonna of the Rocks' by davinci shows Mary with 3 children the oldest being a girl
metalhead- pure fictionb means 100% made up. the da vinci code is not 100% made up cos the council of nicaea, gospel of philip, gospel of mary magdalene, templar knoghts and other things are all histoprical facts,. the DaVinci code is just a story woven around those facts
Wait! You cant possibly use The Da Vinci Code to justify anything. It was a work of fiction, and a poor one at that. The Gospel according to Dan Brown? Maybe not.
Fiction yes. But a super book and well researched.
Mrs Bucket
11-Aug-10, 18:01
I know there is a force greater than anything we can comprehend Is it Jesus? maybe
DeHaviLand
11-Aug-10, 19:06
Fiction yes. But a super book and well researched.
His "well researched" was to plagiarise the material from non-fiction writers who had done their own research :roll:
Aaldtimer
11-Aug-10, 19:14
Well said DH, from this book:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail [disgust]
I've been reading this thread thoroughly and no agent from the Devil who is sitting at their computer is going to tempt me away from the true word of God as literally read in the Holy Bible.
danc1ngwitch
11-Aug-10, 20:02
[quote=The Angel Of Death;746523]
As for JC himself I think he did exist but I don't think it was to the level that we read and hear about him I think he was just a man and nothing more basically the church was nothing more than a good PR machine
And what a man that turned out to be. A simple man gave so many hope, faith etc etc...
Or was he a simple man?
David Banks
11-Aug-10, 20:05
when i wis on ma way til america i stop't off at 'e casino in edinburgh an met up wi' an auld pal who is a historian.
.....
mind, im so easy influenced....il believe anythin ye tell me!!!
I was easily influenced when I was younger, believing that the entire bible was the inspired word of God, and that it was completely without error. I became doubtful of that opinion, but did not replace it with any "facts" until I watched the 24 half-hour lectures titled "The New Testament" by Prof. Bart Ehrman - I got them from the Teaching Company. There is a lot of historical information on jesus in the lectures. From them I gathered that the earliest books were the letters of Paul written about 50 AD, and the 4 gospels came later, some as late as 110 AD.
There is very little other historically verified documentation, and I am left with the firm opinion that if a story about Jesus in not in the new testament, it is made-up - fiction. And that is not to infer that the information in the new testament is all historically proven. There are lots of conflicts between the various books in the new testament, and bits were added later - some of it much later.
If you are looking for titillating 'gossip' I cannot help you.
If you are searching for historically verified information, I cannot think of a better place to start than this lecture series - they have sales about once a year - I wouldn't pay full price. If this sounds like a sales pitch, I apologise.
Tubthumper
11-Aug-10, 21:20
This window in Kilmore Church on Mull depicts jesus and mary magdalene together and notice that mary is pregnant
http://www.sacredconnections.co.uk/holyland/images/jesus-mary.jpg
Looks like her waters have broken as well.
Although, as himself seems to have a lifebelt on his head, perhaps he's just rescued her from a shipwreck and she's wearing a lifejacket under her robe.
Also, they don't look terribly mediterranean...
georgegwf
11-Aug-10, 21:57
The bible is the greatest work of fiction on this planet..........[disgust]
Jesus has been everything from the son of GOD (:roll:) to an alien (:roll:)
I think it is up to the individual to make thier own minds up
Metalattakk
11-Aug-10, 22:22
metalhead- pure fictionb means 100% made up. the da vinci code is not 100% made up cos the council of nicaea, gospel of philip, gospel of mary magdalene, templar knoghts and other things are all histoprical facts,. the DaVinci code is just a story woven around those facts
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z55/Metalattakk/facepalm-face-palm-facepalm-demotiv.jpg
Also, they don't look terribly mediterranean...
no. Celts with there red hair
The Angel Of Death
11-Aug-10, 22:53
- pure fictionb means 100% made up. the da vinci code is not 100% made up cos the council of nicaea, gospel of philip, gospel of mary magdalene, templar knoghts and other things are all histoprical facts,. the DaVinci code is just a story woven around those facts
And we know these gospel's council writings templar knights and all historical facts are 100% true the truth wasn't stretched a little bit arms and legs were not added on at any point when they have been rewritten
Did you ever play Chinese whispers when you were younger ? Starts out with one "story" and by the time it reaches the end of the line its something completely different
I'm not saying I am right but I am also not saying your wrong I'm just asking do we know if all that's been written is 100% true I mean just because a council wrote it doesn't mean its true I am sure highland council write a lot of things that's not 100% true ;)
Did you ever play Chinese whispers when you were younger ?
Everything on the internet must be true then because we can all Copy and Paste now.:lol:
cetrainly looks like the later stages of pregnancy to me. besides the 'Madonna of the Rocks' by davinci shows Mary with 3 children the oldest being a girl
metalhead- pure fictionb means 100% made up. the da vinci code is not 100% made up cos the council of nicaea, gospel of philip, gospel of mary magdalene, templar knoghts and other things are all histoprical facts,. the DaVinci code is just a story woven around those facts
Da Vinci Code? Leonardo da Vinci? Is there a pattern here? Who next? Vinci van Gogh, Vinci Lombardi?
In an episode of the TV series QI, host Stephen Fry had two simple words in summary of Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code. Those words were "Arse" and "Gravy"
Early History is very unreliable. There is a lot of hearsay, manipulation and hidden agenda. Arguments about the Jesus Man or Myth are complex and usually heavily laden with bias. There are many books for and against, some stretching over 1000 plus pages.
We will never certain, there is no forensic evidence that Jesus ever existed. My own view is that, if he did exist, he was just a man and not the Son of God.
I read the following and found it an approachable summary of a book on the subject. I am not claiming it to be conclusive in any way but a decent place to start to grasp the complexity and relative likelihood surrounding the "evidence"
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/jesusgodmanmyth.html
What about the scriptures of judus?
Basically the long and short of it was that judus didn't betray JC he helped him die as JC had had enough of life on earth and wanted to return to heaven and judus as one of his most trusted friends helped arrange this but knew by doing so he would be forever remembered as the person who betrayed JC
see, ma version is close. judus wis in on 'e conspiracy til keep jesus alive, as one o' his most trusted friends. if jc, hed 'e lord (which art in heaven) on his side, he wid be given 'e strength til live.
also ma view is, jc knew 'e contents o' his chart (spiritual contract) an it didna include givin up on life. he led a truly charmed life previously til 'e trial an crucfixion.
This can be seen in my view by the fact there is very little about JC in the bible until he is an adult I mean that to me is a bit funny because we all have a history good or bad many a person would kill to have there early history erased or forgotten about I just find it outrageous that we have to take 2nd hand information as gospel (no pun intended ;) )
he left home at 14, which wis kwite usual for a yowng biyagie in 'at days, an traveled aroond, spreadin 'e word o' 'e guid lord. he hed plenty o' £s as he wis fie a wealthy faimily.
I've been reading this thread thoroughly and no agent from the Devil who is sitting at their computer is going to tempt me away from the true word of God as literally read in the Holy Bible.
seriously? dis 'at include 'e auld testiment? [lol]
There are lots of conflicts between the various books in the new testament, and bits were added later - some of it much later.
yeah....its strange. there are so many discrepancies between 'e gospels that were aboot describin 'e crucifixion, who wis there, fit wis said, til whom. ye'd think that 'e information o' 'iss event wid be consistant.
If you are searching for historically verified information, I cannot think of a better place to start than this lecture series - they have sales about once a year - I wouldn't pay full price. If this sounds like a sales pitch, I apologise.
il look it up david, thanks. between 'e huge collection o' books av bought.
Jesus has been everything from the son of GOD to an alien.
yeah, i read a book aboot 'e years ago. "wis god an astronaut"? i believed 'at too then. 'at wis aboot 'e time i read, "how til win friends and influence people" [lol]
And we know these gospel's council writings templar knights and all historical facts are 100% true the truth wasn't stretched a little bit arms and legs were not added on at any point when they have been rewritten
Did you ever play Chinese whispers when you were younger ? Starts out with one "story" and by the time it reaches the end of the line its something completely different
I'm not saying I am right but I am also not saying your wrong I'm just asking do we know if all that's been written is 100% true I mean just because a council wrote it doesn't mean its true I am sure highland council write a lot of things that's not 100% true ;)
fair enuf but the gospels that we have in the bible were decided on by a vote at the council of Nicaea. there were other gosples adtin from the same period.
the davinci code is like any other work. we should take out of it the truths and leave the madeup fiction.
just like the bible it self. judge what is true.
for explame, "8 O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is he who repays you
for what you have done to us- 9 he who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks."
thats from spalm 137. would Jesus say that do you think?
Aaldtimer
12-Aug-10, 03:32
"And now you come knocking on my door,
And tell me it's "Jesus who saves",
But for two thousand years,
He's brought nothing but tears,
And the cross that they plant on the graves."
Harvey Andrews, Folksinger/songwriter C1970.:confused
The Angel Of Death
12-Aug-10, 09:33
fair enuf but the gospels that we have in the bible were decided on by a vote at the council of Nicaea. there were other gosples adtin from the same period.
Yea but that's my main point here the gospels were decided by a VOTE I remember watching a program and one of the point were that out of the gospels chosen some seemed to have more relevance but were left out and put in at a later date (this comes from memory)
For example in Westminster laws and acts are passed by our council of peers but the horse trading that goes on for law x to get passed is unreal sometimes its not a case of if the law / act is required or needed its a case of who will back who up and vote it through perfectly good laws and acts have not got through simply because enough votes were not cast in order to push it through
Using that as an example I would expect something similar for any council who are deciding what goes and what doesn't
But it still doesn't take anything away from the fact that regardless of what gospels were chosen and what were not we still can't 100% say they are 100% right or 100% wrong
What also gets me is when something bad happens (floods in Pakistan for example) the big man works in mysterious ways when some thing good happens its part of his plan I just cant fathom why if there is a big man up there that bad things are aloud to happen on the scale that we see on a daily basis I thought god was supposed to be an all loving god if he is why do bad things happen to good people?
Then to top it all of is our big man in the sky the main big man? who is to say our god is the main god how does he fit in to things for example the bible tells us got created everything how does that work with Allah for example do they have there of theory of creation and if they do (combined with all the other forms of religion) what makes ours anymore right than there’s?
Yea but that's my main point here the gospels were decided by a VOTE I remember watching a program and one of the point were that out of the gospels chosen some seemed to have more relevance but were left out and put in at a later date (this comes from memory)
For example in Westminster laws and acts are passed by our council of peers but the horse trading that goes on for law x to get passed is unreal sometimes its not a case of if the law / act is required or needed its a case of who will back who up and vote it through perfectly good laws and acts have not got through simply because enough votes were not cast in order to push it through
Using that as an example I would expect something similar for any council who are deciding what goes and what doesn't
But it still doesn't take anything away from the fact that regardless of what gospels were chosen and what were not we still can't 100% say they are 100% right or 100% wrong
i agree with you.
What also gets me is when something bad happens (floods in Pakistan for example) the big man works in mysterious ways when some thing good happens its part of his plan I just cant fathom why if there is a big man up there that bad things are aloud to happen on the scale that we see on a daily basis I thought god was supposed to be an all loving god if he is why do bad things happen to good people?
Then to top it all of is our big man in the sky the main big man? who is to say our god is the main god how does he fit in to things for example the bible tells us got created everything how does that work with Allah for example do they have there of theory of creation and if they do (combined with all the other forms of religion) what makes ours anymore right than there’s?
as far as i understand it Allah means 'the supreem being'. so Allah and God would be the same. in islam Jesus is regarded as a important prophet
any way you look at it i think god is blamed for nasty thinsg. this might descibe that old tesiment god but not the god talked of by Jesus christ. didnt Jesus say that the devil was the ruler of this wolrd?
if Jesus chirist is ffor realk then there mnust be a Devil i think.
The Angel Of Death
12-Aug-10, 22:54
if Jesus chirist is ffor realk then there mnust be a Devil i think.
Deffo agree IF there is an all powerful entity then there has to be its exact opposite we have good and bad light and dark it only stands to reason a loving caring god would have an opposite evil twin of sorts.
Personally I don't think there is a god of sorts science wins for me all the time I mean how many years ago were we the centre of the universe? Then the earth was flat science has explained them all and I think it will eventually solve the big question of who (or what) created the universe.
I watched a program called Through The Wormhole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through_the_wormhole) and in each episode it gave opinions on a variety of subjects giving theory's and scientific explanations some plausible some not but it got me thinking and its worth a watch I would say if it ever comes onto uk tv.
One episode 4 really stood out for me it described the big bang as not being created by god but by parallel universes driving to close to each other and they touched thus destroying two parallel universes creating the big bang and creating ours. it also pointed out the universe is expanding all the time and eventually it was suggested that our universe would eventually drift that far it would touch another parallel universe ripping ours apart and creating essentially another big bang and another universe.
This leads me to believe that science can explain an awful more than a book that may or may not be true telling us all that it was god’s work. I mean if I created everything in existence I would at least put an appearance in to say hey look what I did or pop in from time to time for a cuppa and a catch up chat. But in an estimated 17 billion years since everything was created we have had zip nothing not even a postcard.
Kinda says it all for me that does.
excellent post angel o' deith, gave me alot til think aboot. goin til see if ma pal can doonload 'at program ye spoke aboot.
so, in 'e name o' research, i sat in masel on seturday nite an watched 'e passion o' christ!! cup o' tea in one han, smoke in 'e ither....ma eyes were wide an ma chin wis hingin open!!! :eek:
jeasus wept!!! (he niver actually shed a single tear) i niver seen anything so barbaric in all ma life...brutal min! lumps o' flesh getin torn oot o' him wi little hooks that were attached til 'e whips. ribs hingin oot an ivrythin - WILD!!!
i do still think/definatly think, that he didna die on 'e cross an that they conspired til keep him alive. that they moved him fie 'e beeg cave an hid him til he recovered.
i do think that he wis a healer, hed psychic powers an ither special abilities. he spoke alot o' sense....but iv come til 'e conclusion that he wis a bit o' a nut case. he hed til be min.
maybe he believed he wis 'e son o' god, but if he really wis then am sure 'e guid lords plan wid o' worked oot differently than it did, instead o' bin soaked in conspiricy, lies an deceit.
it may hav assisted in social order for some years, back in 'e day but nowadays, people choost da gie a toss.
if 'e man up stairs cared 'at much then surly he wid master a plan which wid undermine 'e church teachin's, til somethin closer til 'e truth....
gone are 'e days when we thot 'e thunder wis god bein wild wi us. wur needin somethin else thats modern, somethin that we cana deny.
he needs til gie us somethin til believe in....an he hes tough competition wi all 'iss science an physics thats come til light.
I heard today that the Church of Scotland is in such decline in membership, it could cease to exist by 2033.
Would be missed by it's (currently) less than 1/2 million members, anyone else? They run many social projects in Scotland and around the world; Schools, Hospitals, Care homes and Missions.
wow, its amazing how much tv people watch.. and how much learned people "know" today.
the time that christ lived was a time with very little written history as we have been discussing already. what we do know as fact would prob. fit into a thimble.. what we speculate would fill the oceans.
The thing about faith.. be it christianity, muslim, jewish, hinduism, atheism, or any of the other belief systems in the world.. is that it simply relies on the spirituality of the idividual.
What you believe in is what matters.
faith is all about following what your heart tells you.
God is God, it dosent matter what stories you attach to Him.
how you twist it or what theories you have or even... that he was a fictional charecter made up to cow the masses.
At the end of the Day what is ... well is.
Do any of us have the answers?
the simple answer is No...
all we can do, is stumble through this life as best we can... believe as best we can.
be honest and kind and fair and be true to ourselves.
when we get to the end of this road called life, then we will find out what the next door brings.
Sam asked me the other day.. why everyone didnt belive in God, and couldnt we just tell them that he was real and they had to believe.
its a big question for a seven year old.
my answer was..
not everyone thinks the same way we do sam.
and not everyone thinks that God is real..
and that a lot of people thinks that he is pretend.
but thats ok.
it is everyones choice to think what they want to... and to belive what they want.
that is what makes us special..
we have the ability to choose.
and that we shouldnt turn our backs on others just because they are dif.
and as long as they are good people and not bad people then its ok to be friends with them. God wont be angry.. and you dont have to tell them that they are wrong. (cause really there not.. its just thier choice to make)
personally, i belive in tollerance..
and i want to teach my children that.. and teach them about a Loving God that could also be a vengful God when the need arose..
but at the end of the day to love God, and be a good person.. that God dosent make bad things happen like a lot of people will tell them, when they want something to throw in your face.. but as individuals.. we make choices.. and good or bad those choices have consequences.. and that is the gift of free will that we were given.
in my personal faith.. i hope that when the time comes to stand before my maker..
i wont grovel on the ground crying out i didnt know.. please forgive me.. but to stand and bow my head.. knowing the choices that i made were freely made by me.. and come what may.. that led me to where i stand.. i brought my self to that point.
i know i have really gotten off topic here.. and the point was " is jesus real or not.. was her married.. ect..ect.. " we just dont know.. does it matter? to some prob. more than anything. to others not so much.
Trix, all the best in your journey through faith.. and in what ever choices you make..
just to give you a hint of how i think of faith.. my fav. story in the bible is of the sick woman who lay in her bed bleeding..
Now a woman, having a flow of blood for twelve years, who had spent all her livelihood on physicians and could not be healed by any, 44 came from behind and touched the border of His garment. And immediately her flow of blood stopped. 45 And Jesus said, "Who touched Me?" When all denied it, Peter and those with him said, "Master, the multitudes throng and press You, and You say, 'Who touched Me?' " 46 But Jesus said, "Somebody touched Me, for I perceived power going out from Me." 47 Now when the woman saw that she was not hidden, she came trembling; and falling down before Him, she declared to Him in the presence of all the people the reason she had touched Him and how she was healed immediately. 48 And He said to her, "Daughter, be of good cheer; your faith has made you well. Go in peace."
of all the parables in the bible this one has always touched me most.. it is faith that will give you strength to do anything.
if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can move mountains.
its not what you believe.. but the faith that you have in your convictions..
good luck hun in what ever you decide.
...Then the earth was flat...
interestingly...
http://bible.cc/isaiah/40-22.htm
http://bible.cc/job/26-7.htm
The Angel Of Death
24-Aug-10, 21:43
interestingly...
http://bible.cc/isaiah/40-22.htm
http://bible.cc/job/26-7.htm
2 dimensional circle or 3 dimensional circle both are round ;)
Both quotes can be taken either way but the majority of scientists up untill a few hundred years ago were proclaming the earth as flat and at the center of the galaxy
Its like looking at a glass is it half empty or half full I might say full another could say half empty
yes I understand what the scientists where saying at the time just interesting how compared to other ideas of the day (elephants holding up the world, or atlas holding it up) It says hanging upon nothing *twilight zone music*
The Angel Of Death
24-Aug-10, 22:19
Does anyone know how many incarnations of the bible there is or at least roughly how many to date ?
I know all the versions are not going to be exactly word for word etc but say for example today's bible how does it compare to say the bible from 500 years ago
As an example using the quotes from Mr Lennie's links
GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://gwt.scripturetext.com/isaiah/40.htm) (©1995) (http://www.godsword.org/)
God is enthroned above the earth, and those who live on it are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the sky like a canopy and spreads it out like a tent to live in.
Fast forward to
New Living Translation (http://nlt.scripturetext.com/isaiah/40.htm) (©2007) (http://www.newlivingtranslation.com/)
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.
Now that's quite a bit of change to those verse's in the short space of 12 years
Which takes it all the way back to the fact what we know about god Jesus etc is probably the equivalent of a few grains of sand on reiss beach if there is that much change in the space of a few years imagine what COULD have changed in a few hundred
no its not pure fiction. the gospel of philip does realy exist. Mary is realy described in that gospel as jesus wife
this window in kilmore church onm Mull depicts jesus and mary magdalene together and notice that mary is pregnant
http://www.sacredconnections.co.uk/holyland/images/jesus-mary.jpg
That is Joseph and Mary, the bump is Jesus, silly.
Do any of us have the answers?
the simple answer is No...
Sam asked me the other day.. why everyone didnt belive in God, and couldnt we just tell them that he was real and they had to believe.
its a big question for a seven year old.
my answer was..
not everyone thinks the same way we do sam.
and not everyone thinks that God is real..
and that a lot of people thinks that he is pretend.
but thats ok.
it is everyones choice to think what they want to... and to belive what they want.
that is what makes us special..
we have the ability to choose.
That's a good defence of your faith Brandy and as someone with no faith in man made religion I applaud it.
Wee Sam asked you why some people didnt believe in God. You say it's everyones choice to believe in God or not. I dont believe that. Did sam have a choice?
I'm not being confrontational in my heathenism because I think I am tolerant too, although it wasnt always like that, but I think it's an interesting question which I'm sure you will be able to answer admirably.
it will be sams choice when he is old enough to make that choice. in my faith a parent is responsible for their childrens actions until they reach the age of reasoning. no set age.. just when they are able to make the choice themselves.
at the moment it is my responsibilty to teach him about our familys faith and beliefs.. if and when he is older he were to decide that he did not want to believe as i do, then that would be his choice. i would never tell him that he has to believe as i do as he would be bad or sinful.. or teach him that intolerance is the way.
Jesus's teachings are all about tolerance..
i will love my child no matter what choices in faith he makes..
cant say i will never be disapointed in his choices.. or upset.. but as he grows
and spreads his wings.. i have to give him space to fly but also be there to catch him if he falls.
he is learning about God and faith as it is our culture.. hes not being indoctrinated.. and any questions he asks i try to answer as truthfully as i can with out bringing the adult content into it.
at the end of the day, if he chooses to turn away from our faith.. although i wont be jumping in joy , i wont be condeming either.. its not my place to judge.
all i can do is to teach him, he will know he has choices but there will always be that foundation of faith.. and although a lot of people would say that im brain washing him by telling him about God and teaching him the Gospel that i am already tipping the scales in my favour.. but like anything else.. as he grows he will develop his own opinions and thoughts.. question everything.. (as i have also been teaching him)
and make his own decision..
here is a non-religion example of how i teach him a lot of life lessons..
on holiday we were in Hastings.. and went to the 1066 battlefield..
being a little boy, he was very interested in the Knights and fightings that happened..
I explained to him about William and Harold.. and the 14000 men fighting that battle.
I also told him.. that 14000 men followed the orders of just 2 men.
and that they fought and died for the words and thoughts of those two people.
i spoke to him about following and leading.. on a 7 years old level.. and told him..
that it was ok to both lead and follow..
but never ever to follow blindly..
to question everything.. and if he ever doubted anything to hold back.
that if he stayed true to himself, and listened to his own heart and weighed what he thought was right or wrong.. that more than likley it would steer him true.
if he believed in something yes follow it thru.. but if he didnt then there was no reason to be a sheep.
i didnt use those words but that was basically the msg i was trying to get across on a 7 year old level.. and its not a lesson learned in a day.
all i want from my sons is for them to grow up to be strong well balanced hard working loving men.
is it really old fashioned?
oh yeah..
but morals and integrity and honor will never go out of date.
how well i teach it.. now thats another story.. but i will try my best.
Thanks Brandy. That's a good response. People dont like trying to define their faith but youve done a good job of it.
I found it hard to shake off the supernatural ideas I was taught as a kid even when I realised those ideas maybe wern't true. Even now, although I know theyre not true there's still a lingering fear (for want of a better word) that I will end up in hell and burn for eternity. Not very often mind you but its as a result of my early introduction to faith philosophy.
I believe it is indoctrination to teach a child religious ideas from a holy book whether its done with love in a family setting or whether its forced in a cultural setting. I'm not saying it's wrong only observing and forming an opinion.
Belief is one of the most dangerous human conflict zones and causes undescribable atrocities and although I accept there are degrees of belief it would be unwise in a society that can split the atom and send voices and pictures through the air not to question the nature of belief and why and how people come to believe what they believe and if it matters whether those beliefs are true or not or whether we are all happily deluded. :confused
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