View Full Version : Chisels
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 20:39
Anyone got any suggestions on how to get and (more important) keep a decent edge on my wood chisels?
They're just Stanley ones and I'm only doing a bit of wood butchery on 3x2s. But after 10 mins on the stone they're blunt again in 2.
Am I wasting my time with them, or is it me??:eek:
keep a decent edge on my wood
ahem....errr
nooo resist
Are you using them the right way round?
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 20:48
ahem....errr nooo resist Well done Phill, every day in every way you're getting better!:lol:
Are you using them the right way round?
I'm assuming the pointy bit goes in the wood and you bang the blunt bit with a hammer. That's what it said on the internet.:eek:
tiger woods
14-Jul-10, 20:58
Anyone got any suggestions on how to get and (more important) keep a decent edge on my wood chisels?
They're just Stanley ones and I'm only doing a bit of wood butchery on 3x2s. But after 10 mins on the stone they're blunt again in 2.
Am I wasting my time with them, or is it me??:eek:
Are the chisels brand new?
If they are they may need to be re-hardened (tempered)
Heat up until the tip is bright ren then quench in water, then re-sharpen them. How you heat them may be your biggest problem though.
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 21:09
Will a calor gas blowtorch get them hot enough TW?
John Little
14-Jul-10, 21:12
There is no doubt that it would.
But on top of that, I have overcome my wife's objections and have an electric grindstone in the utility room.....
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 21:16
Lucky boy JL - bench power! Hubby has banned me from possessing or using any power tools other than the battery drill and baby sander.
I even have to wear special gloves to use my own chisels!:confused
John Little
14-Jul-10, 21:19
Well I did buy her a Dremel last year.....
That's what it said on the internet.
Ah, that old chestnut!!
They can be affected by the actual use (not just pointy end forward but angle etc), the type of wood, bouncing off knots etc. And the hammer your using.
The reality is that if you want them pin sharp all the time you will need fine sharpen them often.
Also have you sharpened them correctly (correct angle) to start with.
Wood chisels should only be sharpened on an oil stone, if you do them on a grindstone you will get them too hot and they will soften.
Hope this helps....
;)
John Little
14-Jul-10, 21:34
I banned my wife from coming anywhere near the chainsaw when she was convinced that I was cutting a log in the wrong place. She put her finger on the moving blade to point me at the right place - just a nick.
3 months later I refused to use the hedgecutter anywhere near her. I swept it up the hedge on the first sweep and swung down just as she stuck her finger up and said 'You've missed a bit'.
I have fast reflexes and my finger was off the trigger instantly so it cut only halfway through her finger. With the blade stuck on her finger I luckily had my pocket knife and was able to lever the blades apart. Then it was hospital, blood all over the place, stitches.
She was very matter of fact about it and I was shaking like a leaf- but she apologised for it.
I then bought her a laser pointer.... but she prefers a piece of bamboo to point with.
She still puts her finger far too close to moving drill bits.....
Don't have the chisels too sharp.....
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 21:35
Also have you sharpened them correctly (correct angle) to start with.
I'm assuming they came with the proper angle from the factory, I've tried to keep a decent sharp angle on, using a 2-side stone. They may just be rubbish chisels, but Stanley tools are usually OK for DIY use in my experience.
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 21:44
Wood chisels should only be sharpened on an oil stone, if you do them on a grindstone you will get them too hot and they will soften. Hope this helps....;)
Cheers C3, any particular oil to use on a 2-sided stone?
TBH over the years I've had a few different makes of chisels and generally speaking I would say it's down to use and care rather than brand, 'cept fer crap handles.
I still have a pair of bobby dazzler B&Q ones approaching 20 years old, wee bitty shorter than they were and they have bin' used fer all sorts but a quick sharpen and there good to go.
Maybe your expecting too much, if yer keen they should be sharpened before each use.
"no such thing as an old chisel, just a blunt one"
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 21:55
"no such thing as an old chisel, just a blunt one"
Cheers Phill. That's maybe going down as one of my favourite philosphical sayings. It works on so many levels!
John Little
14-Jul-10, 21:56
Wood chisels should only be sharpened on an oil stone, if you do them on a grindstone you will get them too hot and they will soften.
Hope this helps....
;)
Ah - but I quench them immediately. Case hardening - I did metalwork at school too me.
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 21:57
We only got cakes and sewing!:mad:
What/why are you chiselling Tubs? Just being nosey but I'm delighted that you are tackling whatever it is yourself!
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 22:16
Building a baseboard for a model railway. Using 3x2 for the legs, cutting/ chiselling slots for the upper frame. Sprogs will assist with the railway part.
John Little
14-Jul-10, 22:19
Oh Tubs just likes to fool round a bit - nothing much.......
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad118/johnlittle21/overmantle.jpg
I think Stanley are a good brand. I would use the oil stone too and I was gonna mention the angle but best not! :)
Building a baseboard for a model railway. Using 3x2 for the legs, cutting/ chiselling slots for the upper frame. Sprogs will assist with the railway part.
Top tip to save yer chigels, use a flat bit to form the slot (preferably with a table drill), then just tidy up the edges wiv yer chigel.
(sorry if I'm teaching granny t'suck egs)
p.s. Can I come an' play wiv yer trainset?
Tubthumper
14-Jul-10, 22:37
I banned my wife from coming anywhere near the chainsaw when she was convinced that I was cutting a log in the wrong place. She put her finger on the moving blade to point me at the right place - just a nick.
3 months later I refused to use the hedgecutter anywhere near her. I swept it up the hedge on the first sweep and swung down just as she stuck her finger up and said 'You've missed a bit'.
I have fast reflexes and my finger was off the trigger instantly so it cut only halfway through her finger. With the blade stuck on her finger I luckily had my pocket knife and was able to lever the blades apart. Then it was hospital, blood all over the place, stitches.
She was very matter of fact about it and I was shaking like a leaf- but she apologised for it. I then bought her a laser pointer.... but she prefers a piece of bamboo to point with. She still puts her finger far too close to moving drill bits.....
Don't have the chisels too sharp.....
This is Mrs Little we're talking about - sounds as if she's getting littler by the day...
John Little
14-Jul-10, 22:43
Mrs little has somewhat of a cavalier attitude towards power tools. They were not on her school curriculum and she never saw the lad on the next bench put a drill through his finger. That sort of things teaches respect for tools that hurt.
If you look on the edge of the blade part , if there are spots of light reflecting, then there is bluntness on the edge - called the candle light. Good luck
Are the chisels brand new?
If they are they may need to be re-hardened (tempered)
Heat up until the tip is bright ren then quench in water, then re-sharpen them. How you heat them may be your biggest problem though.
That would anneal them and make them softer-numpty:lol:
If someone has overheated them on a grinder or tried retempering them I'd be inclined to ditch them or find a friendly blacksmith. When I did metalwork red heat and quenching was softening things, Tempering was heating till the steel changed to blue and chasing that to the tip b4 cooling. Too blue it was brittle but sharp, yellow was less brittle but wouldn't keep an edge. It does sound as if the chisels are not tempered any more- often happens esp with grinders as opposed to an oilstone.
Good luck
Dave
Ah - but I quench them immediately. Case hardening - I did metalwork at school too me.
No, that anneals them. (sigh) You need to plunge hot metal into carbon and then quench to case harden. Chisels arn't case hardened they are tempered, a different and all together more complicated process-jeez :lol:
Beat me to it ducati, and succinctly lol
John Little
14-Jul-10, 23:21
That would aneal them and make them softer-numpty:lol:
Nah- annealing applies to copper. With iron it case hardens.
Tubs, I have a philosophy that has done me well all my life:
Nothing sharper than a Banana [lol]
Nah- annealing applies to copper. With iron it case hardens.
They're made of steel :eek:
Oooh, it's getting heated in 'ere now!
They're made of steel :eek:
Maybe I should have pointed out mine are all rubber, I'm not allowed near sharp implements any more.
John Little
15-Jul-10, 08:33
They're made of steel :eek:
I know that - but when you are in bed and typing letter by letter into an Ipod and the Home Hub is about to go on power saving for the night it's easier to say iron than ferrous alloys.
From some peoples' favourite website;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quench ;)
Mr Fletcher taught me about annealing many years ago - and then how to harden brass by planishing it - I still have the small dinner gong I made at 14.
I did not see the point of it at the time but now I know - I have never been afraid to use materials of wood or metal - or tools because of those lessons.
I know that - but when you are in bed and typing letter by letter into an Ipod and the Home Hub is about to go on power saving for the night it's easier to say iron than ferrous alloys.
From some peoples' favourite website;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quench ;)
Mr Fletcher taught me about annealing many years ago - and then how to harden brass by planishing it - I still have the small dinner gong I made at 14.
I did not see the point of it at the time but now I know - I have never been afraid to use materials of wood or metal - or tools because of those lessons.
And you always know when dinner is :cool:
John Little
15-Jul-10, 08:46
Well no - my wife sort of beamed at it when we first moved in together, took it as evidence that I could do lots of DIY and practically rebuilt the house.....
The gong is an ornament.
stewart4364
15-Jul-10, 09:19
Probably one of the best methods for sharpening chisels and keeping them in pristine condition is to use a whetstone such as the Tormek. Although a bit pricey it is a superb piece of equipment -- with the appropriate attachments available the machine is capable of sharpening chisels and other cutting tools. The normal cutting angles on a chisel are 25 and 30 degrees and chisels are usually supplied ready for use. A properly sharpened chisel or plane blade should be able to cut the hair on your arm (assuming hair is present) hopefully without cutting your arm off.
Mike O'Donnel, an experienced woodturner of some repute, may show you how to sharpen your chisels. He lives out at Brough -- it would be worth giving him a ring to see if he would help -- at the worst he may say no.
Tubthumper
15-Jul-10, 09:43
A properly sharpened chisel or plane blade should be able to cut the hair on your arm (assuming hair is present) hopefully without cutting your arm off.
Cheers for that Stewart - I'll try them out on my oxters!
John Little
15-Jul-10, 10:02
Cheers for that Stewart - I'll try them out on my oxters!
Ah - lyrical prose that paints a thousand pictures.....:eek:
tiger woods
15-Jul-10, 15:19
That would anneal them and make them softer-numpty:lol:
Annealing - Softening the tool steel for working, by heating to the hardening temperature and cooling slowly. Slow cooling can be accomplished by burying the steel in an insulating medium such as lime or vermiculite and allowing it to cool to room temperature.
Hardening - Heating the steel to the hardening temperature and cooling suddenly by quenching in an oil bath.
Tempering - Reheating the hardened steel to the tempering temperature in order to relieve stress induced in the hardening process, and remove some of the hardness in exchange for toughness. Untempered, hardened tool steel is nearly as brittle as glass.
This provides proof as to who's the 'numpty.' in case you're in any doubt, it's you.
Even Chance
15-Jul-10, 15:28
Annealing - Softening the tool steel for working, by heating to the hardening temperature and cooling slowly. Slow cooling can be accomplished by burying the steel in an insulating medium such as lime or vermiculite and allowing it to cool to room temperature.
Hardening - Heating the steel to the hardening temperature and cooling suddenly by quenching in an oil bath.
Tempering - Reheating the hardened steel to the tempering temperature in order to relieve stress induced in the hardening process, and remove some of the hardness in exchange for toughness. Untempered, hardened tool steel is nearly as brittle as glass.
You are quite right TW.
Annealing - Softening the tool steel for working, by heating to the hardening temperature and cooling slowly. Slow cooling can be accomplished by burying the steel in an insulating medium such as lime or vermiculite and allowing it to cool to room temperature.
Hardening - Heating the steel to the hardening temperature and cooling suddenly by quenching in an oil bath.
Tempering - Reheating the hardened steel to the tempering temperature in order to relieve stress induced in the hardening process, and remove some of the hardness in exchange for toughness. Untempered, hardened tool steel is nearly as brittle as glass.
This provides proof as to who's the 'numpty.' in case you're in any doubt, it's you.
At any temperature achievable in your shed-good luck :lol:
This really is one of the funniest threads I have read on here in absolute ages!
I would love to have certificate evidence of what you all achieved in metalwork! I also have a deep sorrow in my heart for metalwork teachers now!
Two other disturbing images I now have - Tubs planing the oxters and and JL doing his J Arthur Rank impression!!! :eek:
Old tubs he got bored, took advice from e org
On how to sharpen her chisels
Stanley’s the make, so they should not break
If he tries a bit o home metallurgy
So off to the shed at bottom of field
Re-tempered but found she’d annealed
And so in a ruck, old blowtorch did chuck
In favour of Oxy Acetylene gear
From shed as night fell, came a terrible smell
And eerie blue light it did flicker
And then a great shout, yes, have no doubt
A spark, it had flown down her knickers
As stormy clouds rolled, he got very bold
And the gas she did turn right up
From cherry red to straw to blue did heat
And on to bubble and spit, yes you’ve guessed it
As blade drooped and plastic handle pooled
Chisel resembled a spoon as it cooled
And bent and twisted he decided to risk it
She re lit the torch, from shed loud REPORT
Having extinguished her oxters
Traumatised and dirty, he retired quite early
The following day she decided to pay
On-line for a Router at Argos
tiger woods
15-Jul-10, 18:15
At any temperature achievable in your shed-good luck :lol:
Alternatively, you could just breathe on the chisel with the ammount of hot air that comes from your mouth.
Tubthumper
15-Jul-10, 20:42
Thanks to everyone who contributed. I used the oilstone, in a figure-8 motion, worked up a nice 30 degree taper followed by a 25 degree cutting edge, de-burred and bingo - lovely.
Oxters are now spruced up, slots are slotted, trains are running on time, job's a good 'un!:grin:
(And Ducati - good work on the pome!)
young_fishin_neep
15-Jul-10, 23:05
boobs are like train sets....meant for kids but dads cant help playing with them!
George Brims
15-Jul-10, 23:25
Mrs little has somewhat of a cavalier attitude towards power tools. They were not on her school curriculum and she never saw the lad on the next bench put a drill through his finger. That sort of things teaches respect for tools that hurt.
Didn't she perhaps see the girl next to her put the sewing machine needle through her finger? I had a bloke at work do that years ago - it was a big industrial one we got second hand from a sail maker so we could hem a big canvas thing with a rope inside the tube of the hem. Right through the middle of his thumb nail and out the other side. Never knew the poor guy could swear so eloquently up to that point.
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