View Full Version : Moats death
Hey all just reading about moats death you've probably heard about. I think I was on the BBC website and they have a little box for comments. Some were of the opinion that he was hard done by and the police were to blame for his actions.
I believe he was totally to blame for his actions although it would be interesting to hear someone elses take?
caithnesslad
10-Jul-10, 22:36
I dont think he killed himself.. Two shots to the head with a shotgun?
.. One shot and you wouldn't need anymore than that i wouldn't have thought especially with a shotgun!
I dont think he killed himself.. Two shots to the head with a shotgun?
.. One shot and you wouldn't need anymore than that i wouldn't have thought especially with a shotgun!
To be honest I don't really care if he shot himself or the police shot him. I have no sympathy for the man no matter how he died.
I dont think he killed himself.. Two shots to the head with a shotgun?
.. One shot and you wouldn't need anymore than that i wouldn't have thought especially with a shotgun!
Belt 'n braces and all that.
Anyway, the first could have been a warning shot.
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/itsalljustrandom/polis.jpg
No shotguns here.
But I think chummy with the tazer is determined to shoot his bolt, as it were.
I dont condone in anyway what this man done.I think he was, (probably through the use of anobolic steroids and the break-up of his relationship) mentaly ill. The prison authorities should have noticed his mental state and got him treatment. Presumably he was given remmision on his sentence. They could have?should have delayed this knowing his state of mind.Lives could have been saved if they had.
Dog-eared
10-Jul-10, 23:22
Two Tazers fired, contraction of trigger finger, head blown off.
End of (embarassing) shift.
I dont condone in anyway what this man done.I think he was, (probably through the use of anobolic steroids and the break-up of his relationship) mentaly ill.
Interesting Sam that you think he was mentally ill someone else mentioned that as a reason for what he had done. It's hard for me to believe that he was in his right mind but i think he carries some responsibility surely? He shot one person then had some time to think about it. Decided it was a good idea to shoot another person had a few days to think about it then shot a policeman. This is how it appears to me anyway.
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/itsalljustrandom/polis.jpg
No shotguns here.
But I think chummy with the tazer is determined to shoot his bolt, as it were.
Lol notice how they gave the guy next to him the high powered weapon and him the "cattle prod" Just one look at the deranged look in his eye and you'd say, "maybe next time dave lets just see how you get on with this..."
Lol notice how they gave the guy next to him the high powered weapon and him the "cattle prod" Just one look at the deranged look in his eye and you'd say, "maybe next time dave lets just see how you get on with this..."
"but 'ave got me finger stuck...oooowwwwwwww"
Dog-eared
11-Jul-10, 00:01
I'm gonna 'ave i'm oi am. Engerlaaaaaand !!!
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/itsalljustrandom/polis.jpg
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/itsalljustrandom/therealpolis.jpg
Fixed.
nice wee bit of photo wizardry there Phill !!
i love the coppers tazer face
i reckon he's tellin the press to back up before they get zapped/or blow negotiations
(moat still managed to shoot himself after getting hit with 50,000 volts ?!)
either way, i'm glad he's dead, we won't have to pay for his upkeep in prison and consequent legal fees as he appeals his coulda been sentence.
i also blame Bear Grills and the other chubby survivalist for teaching survival skills to the masses
loganbiffy
11-Jul-10, 02:05
I'm sorry if I offend anyone but it's better that he is dead. Either dead or put him in prison for the next "20 years" and he gets out in 10, unfortunately that is what we face with the British prsion system.
He took lives, therefore in my mind he deserved to die. Too many criminals in Britain get off too lightly, thats why we see a constant stream of them.
Aaldtimer
11-Jul-10, 03:13
I find it strange, if true, that the Tasers were used while he was holding the gun to his head.
50,000Volts would have immediately produced a muscle contraction which would have pulled the trigger.
Notwithstanding his sins, it's sad that it couldn't have been brought to a less sorry conclusion.
These things can be just as traumatic to the officers concerned as anyone else.:confused
Metalattakk
11-Jul-10, 03:14
I'm not sad he's now dead, but I'm disappointed that he won't have to spend 40 or 50 years behind bars to contemplate his actions.
riggerboy
11-Jul-10, 07:40
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/itsalljustrandom/polis.jpg
No shotguns here.
But I think chummy with the tazer is determined to shoot his bolt, as it were.
didn`t know minty from eastenders was moonlighting a policeman,?????????
i quite sad that he was shot and killed no matter who done asi could have saved them a bullet and
hung im hung im hung im
hung im hung im hung im
hung im hung im hung im
just trying to keep masel in a job folks
Hey all just reading about moats death you've probably heard about. I think I was on the BBC website and they have a little box for comments. Some were of the opinion that he was hard done by and the police were to blame for his actions.
I believe he was totally to blame for his actions although it would be interesting to hear someone elses take?
Hard done by!!
The "man" was a piece of crap. His own Mother stated that he would be better off dead. What kind of society are we living in when people are wringing their hands in worry about whether a violent killer was "hard done by"?
I see reports that his girlfriend is inconsolable after learning about his death. She still loved him despite having been shot by him and having suffered abuse at his hands over the years of their relationship. You have to marvel at the capacity of women to forgive horrific deeds and excuse terrible abuse from partners who are ostensibly totally worthless individuals in the eyes of almost everyone else on the planet.
The big cistern in the sky flushes and the planet is one jobbie lighter.
A couple of things...how were the media able to get a picture like that. I realize telefoto but?
And I do hope that somebody takes that guy to task and keeps him away from Guns and Tazers!! Pretty scary. I did like his WW2 style tin hat tho'.
And you are perhaps fortunate/ unfortunate in the UK.......you have very few of these situations, but perhaps somewhat unprepared for the type of strategy involved.
In North America and other 'gun' Countries, this is quite a normal circumstance and the availability of a good Tactical Unit, a couple of good dogs, a good 'copter with some heat seeking capabilities and a perimiter and he would be.......I was going to say 'toast', but that is really uncouth! His incarceration/demise would be quick. That sounds better.
Hard done by!!
The "man" was a piece of crap. His own Mother stated that he would be better off dead. What kind of society are we living in when people are wringing their hands in worry about whether a violent killer was "hard done by"?
I see reports that his girlfriend is inconsolable after learning about his death. She still loved him despite having been shot by him and having suffered abuse at his hands over the years of their relationship. You have to marvel at the capacity of women to forgive horrific deeds and excuse terrible abuse from partners who are ostensibly totally worthless individuals in the eyes of almost everyone else on the planet.
The big cistern in the sky flushes and the planet is one jobbie lighter.
I agree it is strange just was thinking is this a common view so far on the org everyone thinks it was justice.
I agree it is strange just was thinking is this a common view so far on the org everyone thinks it was justice.
Some people just hate the Police and everything they do. They take any opportunity for a good bloody moan!!
Do you or the *Hang them High* really beleive that this man was thinking normally? I think that his actions could have been prevented if the prison authorities has stopped his release and got him some help for his mental state. At least two lives could have been saved. A lot of questions still need to be answered,such as what action did the police take when they where made aware of the threats made by Moat? and a lot of others which will become clearer over the next few days.I honestly think that this person was mentally ill. I like everyone else on here do not know the full facts.
I'm not sad he's now dead, but I'm disappointed that he won't have to spend 40 or 50 years behind bars to contemplate his actions.
40 or 50 years, youre having a laugh arent you?
This poor man's demise, however it occurred and for whatever reasons, was the direct result of his own actions.
Unfortunately 'The Blame Game' will now start.
Do you or the *Hang them High* really beleive that this man was thinking normally? I think that his actions could have been prevented if the prison authorities has stopped his release and got him some help for his mental state. At least two lives could have been saved. A lot of questions still need to be answered,such as what action did the police take when they where made aware of the threats made by Moat? and a lot of others which will become clearer over the next few days.I honestly think that this person was mentally ill. I like everyone else on here do not know the full facts.
Get a grip. Moat got out of prison on the Thursday, the Police received a warning on the Friday, Moat killed Chris Brown in the early hours of the Saturday morning. How the hell can you expect that process to have been stopped? It took them ages to find him AFTER he had murdered!!
One question that seems to have been overlooked is how he obtained a gun(s) so soon after being released from prison and where it was obtained from
Metalattakk
11-Jul-10, 14:19
I'm not sad he's now dead, but I'm disappointed that he won't have to spend 40 or 50 years behind bars to contemplate his actions.
40 or 50 years, youre having a laugh arent you?
No. I'd simply prefer it if he had been punished rather than take the easy way out.
Metalattakk
11-Jul-10, 14:20
One question that seems to have been overlooked is how he obtained a gun(s) so soon after being released from prison and where it was obtained from
It's fairly obvious he was in cahoots with fellow criminals. 2 + 2 = ?
It's fairly obvious he was in cahoots with fellow criminals. 2 + 2 = ?
How do you know it was not a "legally owned" gun he had?
Metalattakk
11-Jul-10, 14:30
I don't, any more than you know that it was.
If someone shot one of my colleagues in the face, I think I'd be wearing the same expression as 'Private Pike' in the picture.
Move along, there's nothing to see here, as our boys in blue might say.
John Little
11-Jul-10, 14:57
How do you know it was not a "legally owned" gun he had?
It says in the paper today that he had a sawn off shotgun which he would have had no difficulty in obtaining because of his underworld contacts.
The underworld could be using legal shotguns I suppose....
Gordon Bonnet
11-Jul-10, 14:59
I agree with scorrie & those who think this was the best outcome.
Only in Britain would some namby pamby do-gooders agonise about the death of a man like Moat.
I'm not going to call him MISTER Moat as the BBC , and the Cops have been so at pains to do.
He was a narcissist, pumped up on steroids and full of rage. He shot someone he claimed to love and then blasted a stranger to kingdom come, and for good measure almost killed a copper.
As an ex-Cop said today most other countries would have withdrawn beyond the range of a shotgun and eventually let him have it with a high velocity rifle bullet to the head at the first sign of any movement. Some cases are not cut and dried....this is not one of them.
Good riddance.
riggerboy
11-Jul-10, 15:04
Do you or the *Hang them High* really beleive that this man was thinking normally? I think that his actions could have been prevented if the prison authorities has stopped his release and got him some help for his mental state. At least two lives could have been saved. A lot of questions still need to be answered,such as what action did the police take when they where made aware of the threats made by Moat? and a lot of others which will become clearer over the next few days.I honestly think that this person was mentally ill. I like everyone else on here do not know the full facts.
i think the only person not thinking clearly here is yourself,
see all this mental health excuses for folks when their being bad is a load o nonsense, he knew what he was doing the minute he told another flippin nut job to get him the gun,,,
lets all sing,,,
hang em high hang em low
hang em quick
hange em slow,,,,
i think the only person not thinking clearly here is yourself,
see all this mental health excuses for folks when their being bad is a load o nonsense, he knew what he was doing the minute he told another flippin nut job to get him the gun,,,
lets all sing,,,
hang em high hang em low
hang em quick
hange em slow,,,,
From the Daily Star website, this shows the mentality of the people the Police are up against:-
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"RAOUL Moat’s suicide could spark a revenge war – after it emerged he might have shot himself after being jolted by two Taser stun guns.
Pals of the killer had already predicted “bloody revenge” over the ex-doorman’s death.
And they vowed there would be “serious” repercussions after it was revealed that police may have fired up to 1,000 volts into him before his fatal shot.
Moat, 37, had “hundreds” of pals across Newcastle and Northumberland and had attracted a cult following on the internet.
As a shrine to the bodybuilder was set up outside his home, one close associate known only as Andy said: “This isn’t over. The police ruined Raoul’s life and, I reckon, Tasered him before he fired that gun. There’s going to be trouble.” "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the Daily Star website, this shows the mentality of the people the Police are up against:-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"RAOUL Moat’s suicide could spark a revenge war – after it emerged he might have shot himself after being jolted by two Taser stun guns.
Pals of the killer had already predicted “bloody revenge” over the ex-doorman’s death.
And they vowed there would be “serious” repercussions after it was revealed that police may have fired up to 1,000 volts into him before his fatal shot.
Moat, 37, had “hundreds” of pals across Newcastle and Northumberland and had attracted a cult following on the internet.
As a shrine to the bodybuilder was set up outside his home, one close associate known only as Andy said: “This isn’t over. The police ruined Raoul’s life and, I reckon, Tasered him before he fired that gun. There’s going to be trouble.” "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems like another dickhead with the "We hate the Police" mentality,until they need the Police to help them out. Moat was a total nutter and attention seeker,the world will be better off without him. Mik.
riggerboy
11-Jul-10, 16:22
From the Daily Star website, this shows the mentality of the people the Police are up against:-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"RAOUL Moat’s suicide could spark a revenge war – after it emerged he might have shot himself after being jolted by two Taser stun guns.
Pals of the killer had already predicted “bloody revenge” over the ex-doorman’s death.
And they vowed there would be “serious” repercussions after it was revealed that police may have fired up to 1,000 volts into him before his fatal shot.
Moat, 37, had “hundreds” of pals across Newcastle and Northumberland and had attracted a cult following on the internet.
As a shrine to the bodybuilder was set up outside his home, one close associate known only as Andy said: “This isn’t over. The police ruined Raoul’s life and, I reckon, Tasered him before he fired that gun. There’s going to be trouble.” "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as i said he doesnt have mental health problems, he had a group of friends that are the same as him, ex-doorman body building ex-con with something to prove the countries full of them and folks like you with round specs and a tweed coat try to fit him into some sort of box (see how easy it was for me to fit you into so sort of box)to make it seem as normal as possible, the bloke was a great beeg scary bloke that lived and died by the sword that he himself brandished, i`m sure he`s a loss to someone as we all will be,
i would say this shows the mentality of the police when they come up against someone different,
So what should have we done with this 'mentally ill' person? Lots of 'there there' some happy pills and let him integrate with the community at large?
Or would justice have been better served by allowing him to spend a couple of years in a nice cushy hotel with Sky TV, a gym, education, good food, warmth and comfort. All while huge cutbacks on the 'outside' are removing these things from law abiding communities.
Self inflicted or tazer induced, job done.
He lay down his intentions and thankfully was contained enough not to carry a lot of them out.
From the Daily Star website, this shows the mentality of the people the Police are up against:-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"RAOUL Moat’s suicide could spark a revenge war – after it emerged he might have shot himself after being jolted by two Taser stun guns.
Pals of the killer had already predicted “bloody revenge” over the ex-doorman’s death.
And they vowed there would be “serious” repercussions after it was revealed that police may have fired up to 1,000 volts into him before his fatal shot.
Moat, 37, had “hundreds” of pals across Newcastle and Northumberland and had attracted a cult following on the internet.
As a shrine to the bodybuilder was set up outside his home, one close associate known only as Andy said: “This isn’t over. The police ruined Raoul’s life and, I reckon, Tasered him before he fired that gun. There’s going to be trouble.” "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Must be true if it was in The Star.
LoneSomeDove
11-Jul-10, 18:36
I have been reading the tributes to MOAT on FB,people praising him and preying for him, but have we all forgotton the poor guy shot dead because he was dating his EX girlfriend, the PC who was shot in the face and the hell this man caused for 7 days.
His brother is now condeming the police for not allowing him to speak to his brother to try and "Bring him in". I am sure if moat wanted to come in he would have and could have done at any time in the last week.
Why did he stop. because all those that helped him become the fugitve were caught and arrested, he suddenly found himself alone, with no where to go, but he just could not give up, he even had to take his own personal death and make it public.
The mans own mother said he would be better off dead.
Mental illness, i doubt it, he was a man full of hate and jealousy and he payed the ultimate price for it.
The country is safe from one more nutter with a grudge, lets just wait for the next one to come along.:eek:
porshiepoo
11-Jul-10, 20:27
The take I took on Tazer man in the photo was that he was screaming at the dumb ass taking the piccie to ef off out the way - can't say as I blame him for that.
The only people I feel sorry for are the ones who were hurt or killed by Moat and the families of those hurt and killed.
I do have some sympathy toward Moats' family but to be honest the outcome was probably always going to be the death of Raoul Moat, whether that was by his voluntary pull of the trigger or a stand off that could result in nothing less than being shot by police.
The guy had made it quite clear what he thought of Northumbria police and also made threats to the wider public. Moat knew how those threats would be taken by the police and knew it would make him public enemy number one.
Personally I think he's better off dead and tbh I think it's disgusting that police are being investigated for carrying out a job that needed to be carried out.
IMO Moat is better off dead and society and his victims are better off knowing that he's no longer a threat.
Personally I think he's better off dead and tbh I think it's disgusting that police are being investigated for carrying out a job that needed to be carried out.
That is just police procedure after every armed incident that ends in a death. It nothing to be disgusted about.
o.k. riggerboy lets get one thing clear I am in no way a round specs tweed wearing bloke nor a soft on crime type. I have served my country in the forces and faced many dangers during my nine years.I still say that these actions could have been prevented.remission from his sentence could have been stopped,as far as I understand it has to be earned. It is not a right,He should not have been released until steps had been taken to protect the people he was intending to harm. Further charges could have been brought against him for the threats he was making. There is no doubt in my mind that he was a sick individual and should have been locked up for life,using the due process of the law.
Dog-eared
11-Jul-10, 21:15
Yes, SAM09, he should never have been released.
There's going to be lots of officials covering their asses on this one.
To be honest I don't really care if he shot himself or the police shot him. I have no sympathy for the man no matter how he died.
Well said!!
tonkatojo
11-Jul-10, 22:36
It has been reported "Moat's" car is up for sale on ebay, really cheap, starting price was just a few coppers. ;)
There is no doubt in my mind that he was a sick individual and should have been locked up for life,using the due process of the law.
Moat was serving an eighteen WEEK prison sentence. In my experience that does not normally lead to being locked up for life. Your grasp of "due process of the law" would seem to be poor.
o.k. scorrie if you had read what I said you would have also read that other charges could have been brought against him for the threats he was making,this would have allowed a proper mental assessment of him to be made and if found to be suffering from mental illness he could have been locked away without limit of time. At least until properly medically qualified persons deemed him fit to re-join society. Which I dont think he was fit to be a part of. He should have not been released until he was no longer a threat. There are laws in place to have prevented his release. Thats the point I am trying to make.
Foresight is wonderful in hindsight!
But if in prison he "ticked all the right boxes" what could they do?
At least he cannot be a threat to society again... but there is probably 100 or more that could fill his place!
Personally I blame his mother, If you have a ginger Gordie and them call him Roul, he would have to get tough or die.
using the due process of the law.
Unfortunately the due process of law now finds in favour of the criminal.
And then can be twisted and coerced to further serve the prisoner.
The right to various appeals at the public cost will then reduce the sentence if not overturn it.
Due process, not worth a carrot.
riggerboy
12-Jul-10, 07:41
It has been reported "Moat's" car is up for sale on ebay, really cheap, starting price was just a few coppers. ;)
good ole tonka, thats pure quality,
well i personaly think its really sad. yea ok he shouldnt of done what he did.
but he was obviously not right in the head and needed help. if he got that help none of this would happen. i have someone close who is mentaly ill and if he ddnt get the help that he gets he would prob go crazy.
and at the end of the day, he is still someones son, dad, and friend.
i dont think his death shouldo been played out live on tv either.
The Friday night proceedings should not have been broadcast live to the world. I switched it off as it was very disturbing.
So some people think the taser was used as a 'raol-moat control' making him shoot himself...
I don't know about Tasers myself but surely there was every chance that the shock could make him drop the gun rather than pull the trigger? Maybe it was a chance they had to take to try and get him into custody.
Tubthumper
12-Jul-10, 13:19
well i personaly think its really sad. yea ok he shouldnt of done what he did. but he was obviously not right in the head and needed help. if he got that help none of this would happen. i have someone close who is mentaly ill and if he ddnt get the help that he gets he would prob go crazy. and at the end of the day, he is still someones son, dad, and friend. i dont think his death shouldo been played out live on tv either.
No, he was a thoroughly nasty bully, who was feared by decent people in his community, who beat his girlfriend up more than once and was in jail for assault. He also tried to kill her, succeeded in killing her new partner and almost killed a policeman who is now likely to lose his sight.
There are lots of people like Moat in this country, who beat up girls, bully, and strive only to exert control. Thay usually claim they are 'not right in the head' or have had a bad upbringing. Look at how many lassies have been done in recently by spurned lovers (most of whom seem to be 'ex-bouncers').
The only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them, presenting greater force. And if they have killed and are going to kill again...
Watch out for more of these losers. And if your daughter gets in tow with a woman-beating thug, make sure you get police protection for her when she finally breaks away.
The Drunken Duck
12-Jul-10, 14:03
Dont really care if Moat is dead, I think he was mentally ill but that doesn't excuse his actions in my view. The crimes were calculated and pre meditated and that indicates he was in full control of his faculties. But whatever your view he paid in full for what he did with his own life. I just hope those he beraved and injured, plus his kids who will have to live this, rebuild their lives.
The people who really made me vomit are the media gannets fishing around and acting like this was some kind of TV drama instead of a horrific saga that resulted in death and serious injury. Listening to these fetid pieces of filth trawl around for whatever gossip or insinuation they can drag up made me want to spew. Scum, the lot of them.
o.k. scorrie if you had read what I said you would have also read that other charges could have been brought against him for the threats he was making,this would have allowed a proper mental assessment of him to be made and if found to be suffering from mental illness he could have been locked away without limit of time. At least until properly medically qualified persons deemed him fit to re-join society. Which I dont think he was fit to be a part of. He should have not been released until he was no longer a threat. There are laws in place to have prevented his release. Thats the point I am trying to make.
I DID read what you said. There is no facility in place for assessing prisoners serving short terms sentences. The whole point of short sentences is that they are for less serious offenders. People make threats the whole time and rarely follow through on them. The finances don't exist to vet every offender fully before release. It's just common sense that more serious cases are given priority.
kat300586
12-Jul-10, 14:57
I dont condone in anyway what this man done.I think he was, (probably through the use of anobolic steroids and the break-up of his relationship) mentaly ill. The prison authorities should have noticed his mental state and got him treatment. Presumably he was given remmision on his sentence. They could have?should have delayed this knowing his state of mind.Lives could have been saved if they had.
anobolic steroids only hav an affect like that if they r abused which is ppl not taking them properly u r only suppost to take them for 12 weeks then off them.if it was steroids that made him go like that then it would have to be years of abusing them an not comin off them when u r suppost to.
tiger woods
12-Jul-10, 18:55
Dont really care if Moat is dead, I think he was mentally ill but that doesn't excuse his actions in my view. The crimes were calculated and pre meditated and that indicates he was in full control of his faculties. But whatever your view he paid in full for what he did with his own life. I just hope those he beraved and injured, plus his kids who will have to live this, rebuild their lives.
The people who really made me vomit are the media gannets fishing around and acting like this was some kind of TV drama instead of a horrific saga that resulted in death and serious injury. Listening to these fetid pieces of filth trawl around for whatever gossip or insinuation they can drag up made me want to spew. Scum, the lot of them.
Why did you watch it then?
I saw this comment left on Orange's news page:-
"who got the £10,000 reward or is it a raoul over next week?"
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