View Full Version : Are the LibDems Finished As A Valid Political Party
A senior LibDem councillor (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/10573767.stm) (BBC’s description, not mine), has stated that he fears that people will no longer vote for the LibDems after they climbed into bed with the Tories.
Speaking after it was announced that the Government have made massive cuts to the Building Schools for the Future programme (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jul/04/michael-gove-freezes-rebuilding-schools) he stated "It is abhorrent to even consider a Building Schools for the Future not going ahead now.
"I just see a continual stream of bad news that will turn the core Liberal Democrat voters off.."
"I see a time where maybe the electorate will say, well actually, what's the point in voting Liberal Democrat because they'll join a coalition with the Tories, therefore we'll vote Labour.."
So as we approach 60 days of the Tory/LibDem coalition would you have voted Lib Dem if you had the benefit of hindsight?
Had the leader still been Charles Kennedy I might have voted with them this time round. however, Nick Clegg is a Tory in all but name- and the group surrounding him include the people who stabbed Mr kennedy in the back. They sold their souls for a mess of pottage (that referendum) but any alliance with Mr Osborne &Co (nice Dave is just a front) is bound to prove costly.
60 days so far- but can you imagine what they'll have done by the end of 2015. I just hope I don't live to see it.
Had the leader still been Charles Kennedy I might have voted with them this time round..
Interesting, I have never voted LibDem (or any of their previous parties) but I would have voted for Kennedy as I think that he is one of the most honest politicians we have had for a long time.
As for the "referendum" does anyone, outside of the Libdem clique that got better jobs, think that Cameron & Co will deliver the changes that the Lib/|Dems wanted?
Yes I would agree that they are a finished political force so long as we recognise that political opportunism serves nobody.
I am totally disilliusioned with politics because the main parties don't represent the working man/woman anymore. Labour (my beloved party, has moved so right wing it is unbelievable) and the political landscape has been swept from underneath me and into the tories hands thus leaving the middle political ground as a no mans land where the main parties are fighting amongst themselves.
I stand for my own principles. Equality and fairness. I had my own views in regards sexuality, race and wealth and it took me many years to realise I was wrong.
John Little
10-Jul-10, 08:35
But there is nothing new here. Why does everyone seem so surprised?
The last time we had a 'Liberal' Prime Minister it was Lloyd George, a man who had moved during his political career from the left to the right of the party. He was Prime Minister of a coalition and he was held in power by the Conservatives who used him as an umbrella to carry out huge packages of cuts in the post war period 1919-23.
There is so little difference between a right wing Liberal and a left wing Tory that you'd be hard put to slide a knife between them How do you think Churchill found it so easy to slide from Tory-Liberal - Tory?
The most likely scenario for the Liberals is a split. The Centre and Left of the party will rebel because there is actually a lot of clear blue water between Liberalism and Conservatism.
The coalition will end as the Liberals war over their leadership in about 18 months time.
A senior LibDem councillor (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/10573767.stm) (BBC’s description, not mine), has stated that he fears that people will no longer vote for the LibDems after they climbed into bed with the Tories.
Speaking after it was announced that the Government have made massive cuts to the Building Schools for the Future programme (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jul/04/michael-gove-freezes-rebuilding-schools) he stated "It is abhorrent to even consider a Building Schools for the Future not going ahead now.
"I just see a continual stream of bad news that will turn the core Liberal Democrat voters off.."
"I see a time where maybe the electorate will say, well actually, what's the point in voting Liberal Democrat because they'll join a coalition with the Tories, therefore we'll vote Labour.."
So as we approach 60 days of the Tory/LibDem coalition would you have voted Lib Dem if you had the benefit of hindsight?
I would say the answer to that is a definate "Yes". The majority of LibDem voters are more to the left than the right and all that I have spoken to are appalled with the coalition. I think the big one will be over Trident. It is well documented that the LibDems are totally against it, so will they sell even more than their souls (if there is more than that!!) and allow the Tories to press ahaed with the replacement?
Danny Alexander better enjoy his time in parliament, I can't see his constituents voting him in again.
The Loafer
peter macdonald
10-Jul-10, 10:20
Another question could be directed at the Labour party...what is it for?? is it the sons of Thatcher "new labour" project?? which couldnt be bothered to change any of the Tories anti trade laws in 13 years ,widened the poverty gap, endorsed nuclear weapons etc.. or ...Should it go back to its Socialist roots ??? making its self unelectable to the voters of the "key marginals" of middle England??
Big questions for them to answer also
PM
ps I hope for them that the elevation of hypocrites like Prescott Reid MacConnell etc to the Upper House will allow a more truthful discussion to take place
Another question could be directed at the Labour party...what is it for?? is it the sons of Thatcher "new labour" project?? which couldnt be bothered to change any of the Tories anti trade laws in 13 years ,widened the poverty gap, endorsed nuclear weapons etc.. or ...Should it go back to its Socialist roots ??? making its self unelectable to the voters of the "key marginals" of middle England??
Big questions for them to answer also
PM
ps I hope for them that the elevation of hypocrites like Prescott Reid MacConnell etc to the Upper House will allow a more truthful discussion to take place
The feeling I get from watching several leading Labour politicians over the last month, is that they do intend to go back to their socialist roots. Like you say, this will probably make them unelectable to middle England but at least they won't all look the same!
I won't be voting Liberal Democrat again. Absolutely disgusted that they sold themselves so cheaply [evil] Nick Clegg couldn't get further up Cameron's backside if he tried. I voted Lib Dem because I believed that over the last ten years, they had become more 'socialist' than the Labour Party. How wrong was I?!!!! The Lib Dems will be the losers in all this. The Tories are laughing all the way to the bank to line their and their friends', nasty, little pockets.
Maybe the Lib Dems. realised what a complete ballcocks Brown and the other idiots have made of the country and decided if they want a country to one day be elected in, that they had better help the Tories sort it out.
And John, I know you are a big fan of 20th century political history but what you were discussing was so long ago as to be largely irrelevant in today’s world. (In my humble opinion) :D
peter macdonald
10-Jul-10, 13:05
"I voted Lib Dem because I believed that over the last ten years, they had become more 'socialist' than the Labour Party. How wrong was I?!!!! The Lib Dems will be the losers in all this. The Tories are laughing all the way to the bank to line their and their friends', nasty, little pockets."
Its a sad reflection on the New Labour project that in some ways both the Tories and Lib Dems were to the left of them...I wonder what was the ethos behind it ...Policies that would make them electable to middle England whilst retaining the "Labour" name to appeal to the "I voted Labour because my mother did" brigade. Seems very unprincipled ...
I think the events of the last months have left a lot of UNITE and CWU union members asking why on earth did they plough millions in to bankrolling the New Labour party ..... as they found themselves legally hamstrung during the BA and BT industrial disputes
Labour really have to find them selves an identity
As for the Tories lining their pockets they will have to go some to match this guy
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5034235.ece
He also (alledgely) tried to get his wife into the Lords but failed although she would have probably felt at home with similar types ie Watson Reid and Simon......
History will judge New Labour and it will probably decide that it was just "a project"
Someone mentioned Lloyd George who despite being a wonderful war leader was not adverse to selling a few peerages to those that supported him :-)) Maybe his principles just got tired??
PM
I don't need a lecture on how corrupt Tory Blair and his cohorts were. I'm well aware of it and I am not one of the people who would vote for a broom with a red rosette nailed to it. The ideology of socialism, as opposed to the Tory ideology is what I'm referring to. Within any party/organisation/group of human beings you will find those that line their own pockets. They are within every political party. I don't vote for individuals, I vote for party policy. I agree that Labour became a bunch of money grabbing sleazeballs, which is why I haven't voted for them for some considerable time. I also agree that they made a hash of the economy but there was a slight contribution to this with the global recession. And don't start banging on about selling gold at the wrong time/borrowing at the wrong time; I've heard it all before. The problem with the last Labour government was that
they behaved like a Tory government: that's why they got elected. Blair got elected cos he was an out and out Tory!!!
The only party I have any faith in anymore is the Green Party and their chances of getting anywhere are very slim. You can sit back and watch the Tories sort it out in a smug self-satisfied way if you like as they hit the old, the young, the poor, the vulnerable and those that can't stand up for themselves.
Let's have this debate again in five years when we see what pans out.
Here endeth the sermon. I feel better for that:D
peter macdonald
10-Jul-10, 15:58
Whoa ......not in any way suggesting that you vote any way for any party ..
I was just pointing out that the ills of the Tories were picked up and expanded upon by Blair etc
The main point of my post was to say Labour is now at a cross roads ,,it needs to sort its self out and find out what it wants to be and for whom
My first instincts in my youth was to be a dyed in the wool Labour voter but this changed as Labour lurched to the right ,I was a member of the short lived SLP which probably gives you a big insight in my political leanings
Again I apologise if in any way I have offended you :-))
All best
PM
You haven't offended me :D None of that was aimed at anyone, except perhaps myself for being foolish enough to believe in any of those eejits who proclaim to be our betters. I think I'm so disgusted with the whole political system that that lot spewed forth. I'm disgusted that, years ago, all my peers who didn't vote and laughed at me for doing so, turned out to be right all along. It is a crock of you know what:~(
Apologies if I offended you. It's good to have a heated debate though, don't you think?:D That's what politics used to be about; ah the good old days........
But there is nothing new here. Why does everyone seem so surprised?
So you will agree that we learn nothing from history?
Maybe the Lib Dems. realised what a complete ballcocks Brown and the other idiots have made of the country and decided if they want a country to one day be elected in, that they had better help the Tories sort it out.
Certain members of the Lib Dems would have signed allegiances to the BNP if they thought it would further their political "career"
peter macdonald
10-Jul-10, 17:11
Any ideas on why Milliband and Reid were so against going into a Progressive Alliance with the Lib Dems PC SNP etc ....Dont think it was for the good of the UK .. Milliband for a tilt at the Labour leadership ??? Reid hatred of of the SNP ??? or did they both calculate it would be a good election to lose?? Only speculation but in Reids case (ex CPGB member and singer of IRA songs....now Lord Reid) I would believe anything
PM
John Little
10-Jul-10, 17:17
So you will agree that we learn nothing from history?
I have never said so.
We learn - but it's a bit like having a driving test. Just because you pass one it does not stop the mistakes.
We learn; our actions may be informed by what we learn but we cannot predict where things will go.
Ducati - you may feel that what I said was irrelevant to the present day, but I was speaking of the last Liberal government. And by looking at the angles of past political deals we may discern dimly the avenues which the current one may take
However the conditions of the 1920s were so different to today's that predicting what will happen would be foolish. People in different ages are too different to predict. There are some likeliehoods - but no certainties.
Ducati - you may feel that what I said was irrelevant to the present day, but I was speaking of the last Liberal government. And by looking at the angles of past political deals we may discern dimly the avenues which the current one may take
However the conditions of the 1920s were so different to today's that predicting what will happen would be foolish. People in different ages are too different to predict. There are some likeliehoods - but no certainties.
Err that's what I mean't......I think :eek::lol:
Has anyone heard what Bob McLennan, John Thurso and Jamie Stone think of the Coalition? Did any of them pick up a cabinet job?
and how likely are they to keep their seats now? The voters tended to stick with what they knew hitherto- but after this election, might it be time for a change?
Jamie Stone is standing down after this term, so maybe he thinks they are not likely to do very well and I think he's right.
Gordon Bonnet
11-Jul-10, 15:16
The question should be 'did they ever get started' ?
Clegg's pretty boy looks and the whims of an image obsessed electorate (only the dim ones) galvanised by those three t.v. debates gave him a seat at the top table.
It will prove to be his last supper.
Charles Kennedy didn't appeal to middle England- and its their vote that really counts- as shown by Gordon Brown's lack of voter appeal there. perhaps you should reword the posting as are the Lib Dems finished in Scotland? I think both they and the Tories may have done the SNP a huge huge favour
News just in...
The LibDems are fielding former lifelong tory and former prospective Conservative Party parliamentary candidate Robbie Rowantree as their Caithness, Sutherland prospective candidate in the Scottish Parliamentary Election next year.
Couple that prospect with our own MP's stance which has been if the tories say 'Jump' John Thurso replies 'How high?' then things are looking very dire up here indeed.
Are they now melding into one party as a desperate anti-Labour Party hybrid?
Wake up and smell the coffee peeps.
as consituents we are technically able to tie our MSP and MPs down by demanding they address local issues- that can be anything from objecting to planning permission for a school on Bignold Park to demanding the right to put up signs advertising businesses on the A99-
Might be worth doing this- keep John and Jamie very busy
Almost all my life I have voted Liberal then Lib Dem until the last election when I changed my vote at the last minute. I do not agree with their policies on the EU, immigration, and crime and punishment. Actually I think they will probably lose a lot of their supporters.
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