View Full Version : Afghanistan. Your thoughts!
What do the people in the UK think of the Afghanistan situation?
The UK has approx 10,000 troops there just now, and the projection is for possibly 400 to meet their death there! 312 have been killed so far.
There are also over 1000 wounded.
I have my own thoughts on this, but will let others post.
It is my opinion that all outside forces should be brought home,our troops are only there to protect big business interest and we have no right to be there. What would happen if another country decided they did not approve of our government,would it give them a right to invade us?
It's grim to say the least,out of interest when did the war start?
It is my opinion that all troops should be brought home. Whatever our government tells us,we are only there to protect big business interests.
It is my opinion that all troops should be brought home. Whatever our government tells us,we are only there to protect big business interests.
And what would they be? :confused
The Angel Of Death
07-Jul-10, 15:03
First of all any lose of life is a tragic loss including in a war
Ignore the facts of if it was right or wrong to go there as there are way to many arguments for both sides the long and short is were there now and need to finish the job we cant leave the job half finished
However given the time that we have been over there and the amount of troops that have come and gone there on various tours I am sure if at the start of the campaign the powers that be were offered a near ten year war with only 400 casualties most would have taken that number to start with yes its not ideal but say the numbers was at 4000 over the same period and you can see where I'm coming from
In comparison how many people died within both the world wars (I know its not technically the same thing but its a war none the less) over the timescales and then also the Falklands for the timescales we was there also
War is an ugly business but some people are forgetting that loss of life comes with it that’s almost a dead cert no one wants it but it comes as part of the war package
Green_not_greed
07-Jul-10, 15:10
Pull out the brits and send in the Israelis...... They don't take crepe from anyone!
Pull out the brits and send in the Isrealis...... They don't take crepe from anyone!
The Russians were there for 11 years, and pulled out with no success!!
John Little
07-Jul-10, 15:39
I just wrote a long reply to this and lost it - apparently I do not have access to this thread. Testing......
Lost a long post through Org glitch!
Bill Fernie
07-Jul-10, 15:44
I have moved a flippant comment from Green Not Greed referring to Rambo in this situation. I did not think this flippant comment was helpful in a thread asking for a serious debate on peoples views on the war where people on all sides are dying or being wounded.
Normally the odd flippant comment on almost any topic is not removed but in this case with due respect to the forces involved in the conflict and to the families of those who have given their lives and the civilian Afghan population caught up in this I do feel we should show some respect to everyone involved.
I would therefor ask that the contributions be kept serious and advance the discussion on how folk on here feel about the conflict whatever the views might be but show some deference for the feelings and contributions made by our troops and their families and to the wider arena of the people of Afghanistan who have lost heavily in yet another conflict on their soil.
The Russians were there for 11 years, and pulled out with no success!!
As the US in Vietnam, the Russians were chased out of Afghanistan. The Russians were invited in by the,then,government in Kabul. The Taliban had stopped opium production and had the previous government forces penned up in Mhazar Shariff when the losing side pulled in the UN forces who have yet to subdue the insurgents. How can a warrior who is fighthing to save his country from invaders be considered an insurgent?
We of the west may not agree with the tenets of the Taliban's extrteme religion but it is their beliefs and their prerogative to believe in their own country. If the UN is prepared to invade a country to supposedly protect the rights of a people then why are they not fighthing in Palestine , Zimbabwe, Chechnya or other places where the indigenous population is being inhumanely treated.
We hear daily reports of the number of UN dead but we are never told how many Afghans have been killed. How many terrorist attacks has there been in the West one wonders. In the face of things, not many I believe.
The governments of the West are quick to put up specious and spurious arguments to excuse their warmongering ways such as the WMD excuse with Iraq but only apply these arguments when it suits their questionable politics.
This war in Afghanistan is costing £20billion but we of the British population are facing huge cuts in public services to cut national debt.
Bring back the army and leave the Afghans to fight among themselves as they have been doing for centuries.
WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE THERE.
In my opinion, withdrawing the troops is not a solution. These men and women are there to do a job, and to leave in the middle of it would not help anybody. As for the casualty numbers, I'd agree with Angel of Death - 400 casualties in what is now almost a 10 year war is not that bad. Every loss of life is a sad event, but this is a war and there are casualties in war - all of these men and women signed up knowing what they were getting in to. Compared with the wars of the past, then these numbers are better than we could've hoped for.
Aaldtimer
07-Jul-10, 16:11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Oil_Pipeline :confused
Green_not_greed
07-Jul-10, 16:21
I have moved a flippant comment from Green Not Greed referring to Rambo in this situation. I did not think this flippant comment was helpful in a thread asking for a serious debate on peoples views on the war where people on all sides are dying or being wounded.
Normally the odd flippant comment on almost any topic is not removed but in this case with due respect to the forces involved in the conflict and to the families of those who have given their lives and the civilian Afghan population caught up in this I do feel we should show some respect to everyone involved.
I would therefor ask that the contributions be kept serious and advance the discussion on how folk on here feel about the conflict whatever the views might be but show some deference for the feelings and contributions made by our troops and their families and to the wider arena of the people of Afghanistan who have lost heavily in yet another conflict on their soil.
Ummmm....open forum, freedom of speech and all that?
I have moved a flippant comment from Green Not Greed referring to Rambo in this situation. I did not think this flippant comment was helpful in a thread asking for a serious debate on peoples views on the war where people on all sides are dying or being wounded.
Normally the odd flippant comment on almost any topic is not removed but in this case with due respect to the forces involved in the conflict and to the families of those who have given their lives and the civilian Afghan population caught up in this I do feel we should show some respect to everyone involved.
I would therefor ask that the contributions be kept serious and advance the discussion on how folk on here feel about the conflict whatever the views might be but show some deference for the feelings and contributions made by our troops and their families and to the wider arena of the people of Afghanistan who have lost heavily in yet another conflict on their soil.
Ummmm....open forum, freedom of speech and all that?
I'd agree with Green not Greed on this one. There's a level of self-governance here anyway, if there is a comment that is flippant it'll either be ignored or lambasted - what surely isn't needed is the censoring of it? What is or is not suitable as long as it is within forum rules, surely comes down to more than the person with the most powers opinion.
John Little
07-Jul-10, 16:30
Ummmm....open forum, freedom of speech and all that?
Forum rules?
Nonsense Posting
This describes posts that are purely based on fantasy. We do not wish to see serious threads hyjacked by changing the main topic into fantasy nonsense. That is not to imply that humour is not allowed, as this is can always be added as an amusing aside. We simply wish to prevent sensible threads being spoiled.
Threads which begin as fantasy will be removed and the poster will receive 3 Infraction points, duration 3 months.
Forum rules?
Nonsense Posting
This describes posts that are purely based on fantasy. We do not wish to see serious threads hyjacked by changing the main topic into fantasy nonsense. That is not to imply that humour is not allowed, as this is can always be added as an amusing aside. We simply wish to prevent sensible threads being spoiled.
Threads which begin as fantasy will be removed and the poster will receive 3 Infraction points, duration 3 months.
I don't know what the original post was, but there is surely a difference between hijacking a thread and making a joke?
Forum rules?
Nonsense Posting
This describes posts that are purely based on fantasy. We do not wish to see serious threads hyjacked by changing the main topic into fantasy nonsense. That is not to imply that humour is not allowed, as this is can always be added as an amusing aside. We simply wish to prevent sensible threads being spoiled.
Threads which begin as fantasy will be removed and the poster will receive 3 Infraction points, duration 3 months.
And also, if anything our responses to this are more likely to be hijacking the thread than anything else.
In my opinion, withdrawing the troops is not a solution. These men and women are there to do a job, and to leave in the middle of it would not help anybody..
In which case we will have to be there forever. As soon as the job 'is done' the mujhahadim(sp) will get back to their own war which was interupted by the UN.
In which case we will have to be there forever. As soon as the job 'is done' the mujhahadim(sp) will get back to their own war which was interupted by the UN.
Not if we manage to eradicate them and their movement. If we can get Afghanistan to the state where it is a democracy then the Afghans themselves can control the Mujahideem and the Taliban. The Mujahideem claim to fight for freedom, however if we give the Afghans a country in which they are happy then there is little to no support for these people.
John Little
07-Jul-10, 16:54
When discussing Afghanistan we cannot ignore the whys and wherefores and a discussion of whether we should be there or not.
War is about policy.
Clausewitz wrote that in 1831 and he was bang on the nail – if not the extension of policy by other means, then what is it?
Our previous government fell into the mistake of believing that it would only be welcome at George Bush’s conference table if they backed his play in the war on terror.
The war on terror is straight out of Captain Scarlet and cannot be food for serious minds. It is a classic scare the masses ploy that allows you to spend inordinate amounts of cash on weapons and having the support of your taxpayers.
Bush elevated a ramshackle collection of terrorists into a world wide conspiracy when in fact the terrorists were the US’s own embittered creation from their involvement in Afghanistan in the 80s against the Soviets.
But he made it very clear that no scraps from his table would be forthcoming unless his satellite and client states showed their loyalty.
We did it in Korea and it thrust our economy into the red for years after.
In Suez we went our own way and got reined in.
I do not have any time for the memory of Harold Wilson’s machine Labour government, but he did resist getting involved in Vietnam though under considerable pressure to do so.
Blair did not.
He put our lads in harm’s way for no good reasons .
Our troops obey orders and they deserve our support for what they do, and the best that we can give them.
But if someone is to pay in blood for the interests and defence of this country then I think we owe them the decency of being clear in our aims.
And we are not.
Militarily we win fights. We hold ground. Then move on. And the enemy come back.
So why do we take the ground?
What are our aims?
To win ‘Victory”?
What is ‘victory’ in this case?
If it is to invade and occupy the enemies territory then we did that years ago.
To hold it in a never ending war of attrition against people who see us as foreign invaders?
To achieve what?
Do we think we can impose a western style democracy on this culture which is essentially tribal, illiterate and fundamentalist?
It will not work and perhaps a hundred years and billions of pounds would probably not end up doing it.
Is that why we are there? A civilising mission?
If so then it is culturally arrogant and we should not be there.
So is it to stop terror attacks in Britain?
We do not need to smash Afghanistan to do that – just control Europe’s borders effectively.
I read the other day that most of the terror threats to Britain are home-grown by angry British Muslims feeling under attack.
NATO is there as an act of homage to the boss in the White House – and most are less than half-hearted about what they do there. The North Atlantic Treaty organisation is paying its dues, thousands of miles from the North Atlantic.
There is no defeat in pulling our troops out. Defeat is only possible if you fail in your war aims.
We have none.
I have nothing against putting our armed forces into danger in defence of this country and its interests – and I have said this before – Bismarck said that Bohemia was not worth the life of a single Pomeranian grenadier.
Afghanistan is not worth the lives of our brave service personnel.
Our political leaders should sacrifice their lives in a true cause if they have to send troops anywhere.
This is an ignoble fiasco and the sooner we are out of it the better.
Not if we manage to eradicate them and their movement. If we can get Afghanistan to the state where it is a democracy then the Afghans themselves can control the Mujahideem and the Taliban. The Mujahideem claim to fight for freedom, however if we give the Afghans a country in which they are happy then there is little to no support for these people.
We have as little chance of iradicating them as we have of iradicating the midgie.
We have as little chance of iradicating them as we have of iradicating the midgie.
Perhaps, but therefore we shouldn't try?
Much as though I would relish a staight debate with you, John Little, I have to argree with your analysis.
The Afghans are the strongest, straightest people I have ever encountered and they will never give up.
I played in three places in Kabul and Kandahar for two weeks in 1975 and have never been in a more powerful place and I fell in love with it.
It breaks my heart to know that so much of what I remember is no longer there.
Perhaps, but therefore we shouldn't try?
We shouldn't try.
We shouldn't try.
So we just leave the Mujahideem to kill their own people and the Taliban to plot terrorist attacks at will?
Afghanistan is not worth the lives of our brave service personnel.
This is an ignoble fiasco and the sooner we are out of it the better.
Well said John. but you failed to mention the senseless loss of lives of thousands of everyday Afghanistan people who were caught up in this "war" which no one understands
So we just leave the Mujahideem to kill their own people and the Taliban to plot terrorist attacks at will?
You listen to too much propoganda I would venture to suggest.
Check out the last thirty years of Afghan history and see the political currents which led to the present situation.
Green_not_greed
07-Jul-10, 17:22
When discussing Afghanistan we cannot ignore the whys and wherefores and a discussion of whether we should be there or not.
etc
This is an ignoble fiasco and the sooner we are out of it the better.
Rather than quote the whole of JL's post I'd just like to refer to it and say I thought it covered the issues excellently
My question (on topic please note Mr Moderator.....) is why are we there at all?
Well said John. but you failed to mention the senseless loss of lives of thousands of everyday Afghanistan people who were caught up in this "war" which no one understands
Why aren't we saving the lives of thousands of Africans, Palestinians etc who are being killed in wars not of thier own making.?
What do the people in the UK think of the Afghanistan situation?
The UK has approx 10,000 troops there just now, and the projection is for possibly 400 to meet their death there! 312 have been killed so far.
There are also over 1000 wounded.
I have my own thoughts on this, but will let others post.
Why bother starting a thread on a topical matter if your not going to share your thoughts from the outset. Blatant trolling while you sit back and watch others argue amongst themselves.
It is my opinion that all outside forces should be brought home,our troops are only there to protect big business interest and we have no right to be there. What would happen if another country decided they did not approve of our government,would it give them a right to invade us?
well said.
I have moved a flippant comment from Green Not Greed referring to Rambo in this situation. I did not think this flippant comment was helpful in a thread asking for a serious debate on peoples views on the war where people on all sides are dying or being wounded.
Normally the odd flippant comment on almost any topic is not removed but in this case with due respect to the forces involved in the conflict and to the families of those who have given their lives and the civilian Afghan population caught up in this I do feel we should show some respect to everyone involved.
I would therefor ask that the contributions be kept serious and advance the discussion on how folk on here feel about the conflict whatever the views might be but show some deference for the feelings and contributions made by our troops and their families and to the wider arena of the people of Afghanistan who have lost heavily in yet another conflict on their soil.
and again, well said.
the propaganda which some contrivutors have bought lock stock and barel is that the government of afghanistan were nasty and therefore military people who signed upo tpo defend this country were sent in to a country that had done us no harm. the propaganda does not mention that the afghan govenmnent had refuszed to allow a pipeline across there country and had all beut destroyed poppuy production. now after so many deaths particular of afghans we (they) have a pipeline and heroin production is higher than ever. (see gleber2s excelent post)
wake up. the brits have no right to be there
My brother is one of the many soldiers out in Afghanistan at the moment. He is there for six months. It is a worrying time for us as a family especially as in the last few day's someone in the same regiment as him was tragically killed.
My brother has been in the Army for the past 16 years and it is his job. He goes where he is told and does what he is told as it is his job. He knew what he was signing up for when he joined the Army.
As his sister I am extremely proud of him. He has worked his way up the ranks and is now an officer. I understand that this is his job, it was the career he always wanted. I also know that he is risking his life daily by being over there and that there is the chance he may die. He knows that too. That is why he has organised his will and discussed some funeral arrangements with me before he left.
I have no strong views on Afghanistan. I only hope the conflict will eventually end and all our men and women will come home. The British forces do a wonderful job and I hope most of them manage to stay safe and return home to their family.
I think to make any real difference in afganistan it would need to be policed by armed forces for about 2 to 3 generations of people to make it into a safe democratic place with a lot of blood shed getting there and if they pull out completlety within the next 5 years it could run a risk of going back to square one and i think thats the reality of things because the only reason we went to war is to topple the talibin people that made afganiston a home to terrosits and drug dealers growing illegal drugs and selling it in the western countrys and how on earth can uk forces fight an enemy thats cleverly disgusied as afgan citizens were they can strike anytime its a bit like dealing with the ira your not going to win it by force you have to win the peoples minds over and its that what is going to take a lot of time to do
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Oil_Pipeline :confused
Also this year it's been reported by american geoligists that large reserves of lithium and gold have been found in Afghanistan that could make Afghanistan another Saudi Arbia...coincidence :confused
I think to make any real difference in afganistan it would need to be policed by armed forces for about 2 to 3 generations of people to make it into a safe democratic place with a lot of blood shed getting there and if they pull out completlety within the next 5 years it could run a risk of going back to square one and i think thats the reality of things because the only reason we went to war is to topple the talibin people that made afganiston a home to terrosits and drug dealers growing illegal drugs and selling it in the western countrys and how on earth can uk forces fight an enemy thats cleverly disgusied as afgan citizens were they can strike anytime its a bit like dealing with the ira your not going to win it by force you have to win the peoples minds over and its that what is going to take a lot of time to do
The Taliban stopped opium production almost completely and the supply of Afghan hashish has only recommenced within the last three years. The toppling of the Taleban was the UN's excuse for invasion. Most of them are not diguised as Afghans, they are Afghans.
I think to make any real difference in afganistan it would need to be policed by armed forces for about 2 to 3 generations of people to make it into a safe democratic place with a lot of blood shed getting there and if they pull out completlety within the next 5 years it could run a risk of going back to square one and i think thats the reality of things because the only reason we went to war is to topple the talibin people that made afganiston a home to terrosits and drug dealers growing illegal drugs and selling it in the western countrys and how on earth can uk forces fight an enemy thats cleverly disgusied as afgan citizens were they can strike anytime its a bit like dealing with the ira your not going to win it by force you have to win the peoples minds over and its that what is going to take a lot of time to do
Great post-can I lend you some .......
oldmarine
07-Jul-10, 19:59
Some interesting comments here. Some remind me of a time prior to WW2 when Britain was at war with the Axis powers. Churchilll wanted FDR of the USA to help him with his war. The citizens of the USA did not want to get envolved. Then the Japanese Empire bombed Pearl Harbor. Some USA citizens believe FDR set it up to get the USA into the war to help Churchill. History tells us what happened. I did not enjoy serving in that war - I saw too many good men lose their lives. However, I was called on to serve my country and I did the best I knew while serving with the U.S. Marines. Here we are in another war along side of Great Britain watching our country men and women losing their lives. I don't have the answers. The comments I have read on this thread don't appear to have the answers for why we are there and what we should do while we are there.
oldmarine
07-Jul-10, 20:10
It's not my intent to offend anyone with my post. I am only expressing my opinion about war.
Why bother starting a thread on a topical matter if your not going to share your thoughts from the outset. Blatant trolling while you sit back and watch others argue amongst themselves.
'Blatant trolling'...........Firstly, I am in Canada and wanted to get to know what others from the UK think. And I am from the UK.
And any time one posts it is educational...(well with one exception) it seems.
I personally know people who are there training the Afghanis, and also in Jordan training the Iraqis.
Depends on how one looks at the situation. Personally I am somewhat against it, as someone said we will likely only have 400 deaths in 10 years but this isn't the same as WW 1 & 2, so that can be discounted. And there is so much Religion there, that we in the 'West' do not understand, and in another 100 years we still won't understand their ways.
But seeing you started this about Trolling, perhaps we could hear your views.
Forum rules?
Nonsense Posting
This describes posts that are purely based on fantasy. We do not wish to see serious threads hyjacked by changing the main topic into fantasy nonsense. That is not to imply that humour is not allowed, as this is can always be added as an amusing aside. We simply wish to prevent sensible threads being spoiled.
Threads which begin as fantasy will be removed and the poster will receive 3 Infraction points, duration 3 months.
"we"? are you a mod now?
i f so lets hope that "sensible " isnt defined by youreself.
the resources of afghanistan are why people are being killed there. soldiers doing what they are told is no excuse for there behaviuor. we have not abeen attacled by anyone so the troops should be kept here not in someone elses country
Neil Howie
07-Jul-10, 23:53
To pull out of Afghanistan now would be shameful.
The Nato campaign including USA and UK is committed to driving out the Taliban to leave a stable country must continue.
Reports of minerals and oil are nothing new, although the recent level of reporting on them is.
If the Taliban regain control of Afghanistan then the "free world" has failed, dictatorship will return, and the future for Afghanistan, it's neighbours and its enemies will not be good.
To pull out of Afghanistan now would be shameful.
The Nato campaign including USA and UK is committed to driving out the Taliban to leave a stable country must continue.
Reports of minerals and oil are nothing new, although the recent level of reporting on them is.
If the Taliban regain control of Afghanistan then the "free world" has failed, dictatorship will return, and the future for Afghanistan, it's neighbours and its enemies will not be good.
Then we must stay there forever.
achingale
08-Jul-10, 11:35
I support the troops wherever they are in the world but Afghanistan is turning into our Vietnam a little bit. A gradual withdrawal over the coming months is a good move. I was very much against the Iraq invasion because of lack of evidence but I do not have a say where our troops are sent. All I can do is support them.
riggerboy
08-Jul-10, 15:02
my thoughts are plain and simple
pull our troops out then
nuke em nuke em nuke em
nuke em nuke em nuke em
nuke em nuke em nuke em
yes we may kill a few innocents but in the great scheme of world peace does that count,
the world will be a nicer and more peaceful place without the ( insert profanity here)
I support the troops wherever they are in the world but Afghanistan is turning into our Vietnam a little bit. A gradual withdrawal over the coming months is a good move. I was very much against the Iraq invasion because of lack of evidence but I do not have a say where our troops are sent. All I can do is support them.
That is a very good comment and I support same.....
Why aren't we saving the lives of thousands of Africans, Palestinians etc who are being killed in wars not of thier own making.?
We could help stop some of the killing by ceasing to sell arms to countries involved in conflicts
We could help stop some of the killing by ceasing to sell arms to countries involved in conflicts
We of the west are good at that.
We could help stop some of the killing by ceasing to sell arms to countries involved in conflicts
You know Anfield....a great thought...but totally impossible....
Arms for the IRA....From the United States, thru Canada to them! There are too many opportunists and the huge money that one can make..... such an incentive!
John Little
08-Jul-10, 16:04
We could help stop some of the killing by ceasing to sell arms to countries involved in conflicts
That's been done before - US neutrality acts 1936-41.
It did not work.
Then we must stay there forever.
Youre right there no one has conquered it and we have NO RIGHT to be sending men, fighting dying on the pretext of protecting our freedom. Spending billions whilst the average American scape enogh money just to get by each wek.The truth is all about maintaining a military base. It serves the intrests of the rogue Jewish state that there is an air base in Afghanistan, one in Iraq and a carier battle group in the Arabian Sea so that there lacky the US can attempt to attack Iran from "Bagram Airfield" as the US military call it.
lies and death and destruction whilke the masses soak up the propaganda dished out to them
With the news that yet another UK sodier has been killed in Afghanistan,the 313th to date, Davids Camerons wish for all UK soldiers to be out of there by 2015 might actually happen, albeit not in the way he envisaged.
Get all troops out now to stop any more needless deaths
It's like the war on drugs; we're not going to win that either:confused
It's all about money in the end, don't you think? And those young boys are losing their lives and getting paid very little to fulfil some greedy individuals agendas'
Sad. I support the forces. I hope they bring them home soon.
With the news that yet another UK sodier has been killed in Afghanistan,the 313th to date, Davids Camerons wish for all UK soldiers to be out of there by 2015 might actually happen, albeit not in the way he envisaged.
Get all troops out now to stop any more needless deaths
we dont want 5 more years of murder. we shoul;d support the trooops and the afghanis and bring the soldiers back now. anyone in there right mind can see why the western killing macjine is in afghanistan and iraq - it doesnt tak emuch insight to see it
I've heard it said that pulling out of Afghanistan now would mean that the soldiers that have already died will have died in vain.
I can sympathise with that view but only if there is a real certainty of crushing the Taliban and creating a modern nation out of Afghanistan.
My own suspicion is that NATO forces will get a victory of sorts, claim it as a political victory at home to whoever is listening and get on the next plane out to a throng from the voters. Then Afghanistan will slowly slide back into turmoil again and back to square one.
That is when I will think where the greater real dying in vain shall happen.
So I believe that anyone who thinks that pulling out of Afghanistan now will make the casualties seem like in vain then an analogy must be drawn from the Concorde fallacy, where in the 1970s no one really believed that the Concorde would be a profitable business, even after all the research and development. But the British Government kept ploughing money into it for the sake of a British icon in a desperate attempt to save face because it had 'invested' so much into it that it wasn't in its best interests to scrap Concorde. BA received £millions of public subsidy until the Government got the exit strategy it needed in the technical reason of risk of fire.
And it will be the same in Afghanistan, we either pull out now and save lives or risk countless more dying in vain in the future. At the end of the day, you can't beat a religious ideology into the sand with bombs and bullets.
Well said Rheghead. Especially the last line!
I've heard it said that pulling out of Afghanistan now would mean that the soldiers that have already died will have died in vain.
I can sympathise with that view but only if there is a real certainty of crushing the Taliban and creating a modern nation out of Afghanistan.
My own suspicion is that NATO forces will get a victory of sorts, claim it as a political victory at home to whoever is listening and get on the next plane out to a throng from the voters. Then Afghanistan will slowly slide back into turmoil again and back to square one.
That is when I will think where the greater real dying in vain shall happen.
So I believe that anyone who thinks that pulling out of Afghanistan now will make the casualties seem like in vain then an analogy must be drawn from the Concorde fallacy, where in the 1970s no one really believed that the Concorde would be a profitable business, even after all the research and development. But the British Government kept ploughing money into it for the sake of a British icon in a desperate attempt to save face because it had 'invested' so much into it that it wasn't in its best interests to scrap Concorde. BA received £millions of public subsidy until the Government got the exit strategy it needed in the technical reason of risk of fire.
And it will be the same in Afghanistan, we either pull out now and save lives or risk countless more dying in vain in the future. At the end of the day, you can't beat a religious ideology into the sand with bombs and bullets.
well said although the religious ideology is jjust the excuse that teh mass media feed to the mindless masses.
do we get presented with photos of dead afghanis? or afghanis with terible mutilations? no. do we even get told how many afghanis have been muirdered in there own country? no. how many children? no. how many women? no. but the mindless gulible masses dont care. just give them a soap opera and big brother
do we get presented with photos of dead afghanis? or afghanis with terible mutilations? no. do we even get told how many afghanis have been muirdered in there own country? no. how many children? no. how many women? no. but the mindless gulible masses dont care. just give them a soap opera and big brother
You can disagree with those of us who think pulling out of the war is wrong, but to suggest that we don't care I think is just down right insulting.
You can disagree with those of us who think pulling out of the war is wrong, but to suggest that we don't care I think is just down right insulting.
i was actually talking of the mindless masses when i said that they did not care. id you have thought about the issue and have an opinion either way then you are not one of the mindless massesd so my comment does not apply to you.
i disagree with youre conclusion yes but i did not insult you. tis those that care only for x-factor and big brother and saops and care not who is killed many miles away from home who i have a n issue with
maybe i could have worded it better
i was actually talking of the mindless masses when i said that they did not care. id you have thought about the issue and have an opinion either way then you are not one of the mindless massesd so my comment does not apply to you.
i disagree with youre conclusion yes but i did not insult you. tis those that care only for x-factor and big brother and saops and care not who is killed many miles away from home who i have a n issue with
maybe i could have worded it better
Fair enough, a mere misunderstanding. Apologies.
Fair enough, a mere misunderstanding. Apologies.
thanks. No problem.
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