View Full Version : Asda
kwbrown111
26-Jun-06, 15:59
So our illustrious Thurso councillors turned down the planning permission. I hope everyone remembers to kick them out next time they're looking for election. I for one will be watching with interest they're reasons for it. i have my own opinion but i would get put in orger jail if i said it
So our illustrious Thurso councillors turned down the planning permission. I hope everyone remembers to kick them out next time they're looking for election. I for one will be watching with interest they're reasons for it. i have my own opinion but i would get put in orger jail if i said it
No Way!! I thought that was a done deal! I will also be very interested as to why they turned down the planning permission! What a disgrace!! I am really so frustrated by the way caithness is being run, to many "dirty deals done cheap"!!!
How did they manage to only receive 1 letter of support and 72!!!! letters of objection.
Mr P Cannop
26-Jun-06, 16:20
So our illustrious Thurso councillors turned down the planning permission. I hope everyone remembers to kick them out next time they're looking for election. I for one will be watching with interest they're reasons for it. i have my own opinion but i would get put in orger jail if i said it
is this true ???
Well you know who to blame for not getting a Asda. Does the councilors actually listen to the people of the county, or do they do whats best for themselves. As for only one vote to approve...... seems very fishy, if its true then its the thurso folk to blame, you should now all be writing letters to the councillors and tell them what a huge mistake they have made. If its left alone then they will just do it again when the next big thing arrives.
Very sad day for Thurso im in Wick but it is still a shame, democracy just took a nose dive.
changilass
26-Jun-06, 16:21
[quote=robin170491]How did they manage to only receive 1 letter of support and 72!!!! letters of objection.[/quo
People only tend to go out of their way to write a letter when they are opposed to something, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the ones who objected, due to a loss of view, do their shopping in tesco in Wick when it arrives.
Was the Wick councillor, who used his casting vote to have the planning permission turned down, worried that some of the trade might just go to Thurso instead of Wick getting it all.
Praetorian
26-Jun-06, 16:30
Casting vote went to the same counciller (who voted against it) who was all in favour for Tescos
If you go to the link mentioned on the home page it names the objectors at the end. Shame really I was so looking forward to shopping there
There must be something wrong somewhere,because my wife and i both wrote letters of support .So that makes two letters for the project to start with .I would not like to think that the Asda Petrol Station had the Local Petrol Mafia up to no good . Maybe a vote of No confidence in the Council through the local paper would see the right people get the job and do what the votes want ...
There are local council elections next year: if you don't like what your local representatives are doing, then vote them out! Or organise a pro-ASDA campaign, and put up candidates against the ones you don't like. Note that half of Caithness's ten councillors were "elected" unopposed at the last election (http://www.caithness.org/fpb/election2003/index.htm). That's not much of a democracy in my book. But you can't complain if no-one stands against them.
Royster1911
26-Jun-06, 16:49
Well Mr Tom Jackson, con YOU explain to the people in your ward as to why you voted against Asda? I know you read the forum boards, so what better way of explaining yourself. When did you consult with your ward to find out what the people wanted rather than what you did not want. Pack your bags Tom. Your a gonner
Well Mr Tom Jackson, con YOU explain to the people in your ward as to why you voted against Asda? I know you read the forum boards, so what better way of explaining yourself. When did you consult with your ward to find out what the people wanted rather than what you did not want. Pack your bags Tom. Your a gonnerTom Jackson was "elected" unopposed last time. You know what you have to do.
Look at the addresses of the objectors. Look at the postcodes if you don't know the area - roughly 90% of them live within a (few) hundred yards of the proposed ASDA. That little lot take NIMBYism to a new level! :lol:
Mr P Cannop
26-Jun-06, 16:57
Supermarket giant Asda's plan to build a store on the outskirts of Thurso has been rejected by councillors.
Highland Council officials had recommended that the area's planning committee approve outline consent.
Asda's application was refused on the casting vote of the committee chairman and a company spokesman said the chain was considering an appeal.
Seventy-one objectors had called for the proposed site to be retained as the Caithness town's green belt.
A greenfield site on the north west fringe of Thurso was earmarked for a 2,896 sq metre store and petrol station.
Planning officials had recommended that the committee give the plan outline planning consent.
'Strict criteria'
However, on Monday, committee members rejected the application on the casting vote of chairman Graeme Smith.
Asda spokesman George Backovic said he was disappointed with the decision and said the main losers would be local shoppers and motorists.
Rob Gibson, SNP MSP for Highlands and Islands, praised the committee.
He said: "Supermarket expansion has to meet very strict criteria to protect the local economy."
Asda also has plans to build a store in Inverness
A backward step by our backward councillors.
When talk of retail parks and tescos to wick starts, the locals embrace the notion. Thurso always seems to do the opposite.
My GOD it's a blue noon day .Councillers siding with the objectors and against Asda all because they will lose their view .A view that they have No title to ,but the Council spit in the face of objectors and support the wind factories that Destroy the landscape for all ....The whole thing STINKS .....WE'LL REMEMBER THIS NEXT TIME YOU COUNCILLERS COME BEGGING FOR VOTES .....SHAME ON YOU ..
pedromcgrory
26-Jun-06, 17:18
few eric pollards in our mist i guess
Seventy-one objectors had called for the proposed site to be retained as the Caithness town's green belt.
A greenfield site on the north west fringe of Thurso was earmarked for a 2,896 sq metre store and petrol station.
Planning officials had recommended that the committee give the plan outline planning consent.
Why use a green field site? It does seem a shame to spoil a view (that would put it somewhere in the direction of the Scrabtser road, wouldn't it?). I remember a huge area of waste ground to the South East of Thurso juts near the castle. Why not build it there? It would be a more viable site, it would place it on a major road south-east towards Wick, it would place it near one of the largest housing estates around Thurso and it would make use of an ugly tract of land.
Also, maybe Adsa and the National Lottery could be milked for some money to 'do up' the castle. I know, I know... you're going to tell me that it has already been built on in my absence. :roll:
I think we should vote them out at the next election (May 2007) show them firmly what the people want and not only the four councillors who voted it down, the two who didn't bother to turn up for the vote!
In fairness tho' we could have all written in support - I for one didn't know you could or should do this, I thought letters were just for objections in cases like this.
Lets all write to ASDA and ask them to reapply!
rollerboy
26-Jun-06, 18:26
its a really sad day for people like that to turn something like that down as it bring more employment into thurso but it seems there not seeing it that way?they must have there reason and us moaning about wont help its a real shame tho? lord thurso go jump of a cliff.
Democracy at work – these are your elected representatives. Hold them accountable.
Why not write direct to ASDA ?? .. Let them see that the people in that area WANT an ASDA and let them take it further, after all I am sure they can muster a bit more legal clout than an individual.
And I sincerely hope that these self serving individuals get the boot at the next council elections.
Strange that Mr Smith was so in favour of Tesco, yet votes against Asda.
Well, as a few have already said, it's election time in 2007, we can get our own back.
Donny Mackay?? My esteemed member of the Highland Council? BYE BYE!
The Loafer
Countryman
26-Jun-06, 19:02
It is interesting that the chairman G Smith fully supported TESCO for Wick what is in it for him - He votes twice to stop competion to TESCO.
There is no consistence from the planning committee the Chairman seems to ride roughshod over any thing he opposes. Wind farms he supports and now a decent supermarket for Thurso that he opposes what price demorcracy. Where do we go to from here will he oppose the Tulloch development or will he not.
So much for the Thurso people who cannot afford a round trip to Wick for shopping or others from the west. Will we be like Inverness dominated by Tesco as it puts others out of Business will they be given permission if they apply to put a store in Thurso.
I don't understand, having Asda here would create jobs which is going to be much needed when Dounreay closes, there would be cheaper fuel for motorists and a wider variety of affordable products for the shoppers and yet the councillors voted against this?
I reckon we should all sign a petition and, as suggested earlier on in this thread we should send our signed petition to Asda directly so they can use it in their appeal.
its a bit of a scunner but they could appeal. was hoping for cheaper shopping and especially the clothes. kids clothes up here is so expensive and very limited in sizes.
Stargazer
26-Jun-06, 19:36
When Tesco opens in Wick I doubt I'll have any reason to shop in Thurso again. Wick will have everything in one stop.
A well, Thurso was convenient but things move on. Thurso will be a pleasant quiet village by 2020.
its a bit of a scunner but they could appeal. was hoping for cheaper shopping and especially the clothes. kids clothes up here is so expensive and very limited in sizes.
Yeah, I feel we have been cheated, a better range of affordable kids cloths would have been ideal for us as well, what are those councillers thinking! All they seemed to be worried about is squeezing every last penny outa taxpayers! its not good enough!! these lot will have to go before they have us living back in the thirties.
Isn't it strange how Inverness is getting millions for revamping their city centre and yet Caithness can't even keep the roads we have in a decent state of repair, we are being told that we may have to pay MORE for council services yet when something good comes along, like a chance of having an Asdas we are let down by them...PATHETIC...rant over.
Royster1911
26-Jun-06, 20:11
I have e-mailed Tom Jackson asking him to read this thread and post a reply explaining his desicion. Will he do it??? Probably not. We shall wait and see:confused
So how do we go about setting up an online petition to show support for Asda someone here must be able to do it.
brokencross
26-Jun-06, 20:34
On the BBC website it says:-
Rob Gibson, SNP MSP for Highlands and Islands, praised the committee.
He said: "Supermarket expansion has to meet very strict criteria to protect the local economy."
I fail to see how blocking ASDA has protected the local economy of Thurso; there will probably be a mass exodus of shoppers heading OUT of Thurso to Wick to visit Tescos. A half hour drive is not going to deter shoppers enough to make them stay and spend their hard earned pennies in Thurso. If ASDA was built, at least it would keep the shoppers in the Thurso area where they may well frequent the smaller local shops. Also, if ASDA was built there would be competition and that tends to be good for the consumer.
I can appreciate the concerns of the residents nearby, but I am sure with close consultation and liaison with ASDA, their lives would not be disrupted too much, safeguards can be built in to the planning permission.
If you want a look at an aerial photo of the proposed site rather than the photo copy in the Highland Council Planning Document, have a butchers at
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=58.59758~-3.534476&style=a&lvl=17
So how do we go about setting up an online petition to show support for Asda someone here must be able to do it.
Don't know, I was hoping that someone who knows more about computors would come up with an idea.
I have e-mailed Tom Jackson asking him to read this thread and post a reply explaining his desicion. Will he do it??? Probably not. We shall wait and see:confused
I wonder if any councillors will come on this website to show why they voted the way they did?
[evil] I for one am livid. I thought the ASDA was all set to go just the same as Tesco. Tescos' monopoly really winds me up. Wonder if public opinion will change their minds.??...wonder if ASDA will reapply for planning permission??
Tugmistress
26-Jun-06, 21:12
Don't know, I was hoping that someone who knows more about computors would come up with an idea.
just going to sort one out
that is a decision i did not expect [evil]
brokencross
26-Jun-06, 21:27
Just been looking at the addresses of the complainees; there appears to be multiple letters from the same households, albeit different family members. This certainly brings down the "AGAINST" numbers and it doesn't take a super sleuth to realise someone has relatives down the line a bit who have also objected.
Tugmistress
26-Jun-06, 21:28
ok petition done, hope it is to your approval :D
http://www.petitiononline.com/asda/petition.html
I am gutted. I couldnt believe it when I heard.
Although BBC news have reported that they are considering an appeal, so fingers crossed they do.
If they do appeal I would strongly urge all of us in favour to write a small letter to the Highland Council, showing our support for the supermarket. It doesnt have to be long, just a few words to say that you would like to see Asda in the town.
Its a shame Asda didnt do what Tescos did, and send out letters to the whole of the county asking if they would support the supermarket. I gather Tescos had a good response when they did this.
PS Thanks Bill for your YES vote.:D Hopefully this is just a wee hitch.
It is a huge pity ASDA did not get permission. Without them up here, you might as well drop Caithness and rename the county Tesco...... Inverness is already Tesco town, so maybe the whole highlands should just Tescolands... :( Competition is healthy and benefits all.
Tugmistress
26-Jun-06, 21:41
I have also added a link to the petition on the home page of my 'tugmistress' site, you have the url now folks, now get signing and spreading the word !
Well done Tugmistress, my partner and I have both signed.
Tugmistress
26-Jun-06, 21:42
:Razz
thanks clash
only live 13 minutes and 9 sigs already ... keep going folks!
SNIP
If you want a look at an aerial photo of the proposed site rather than the photo copy in the Highland Council Planning Document, have a butchers at
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=58.59758~-3.534476&style=a&lvl=17
Just curious ........... anyone got any clues as to why only part of Caithness is mapped down to the resolution of the bit quoted above?
Good site for something maybe?
Mr P Cannop
26-Jun-06, 21:53
http://www.petitiononline.com/asda/petition.html
Oh come on!! I'm sure Cllr Smith's decision on Tesco has absolutely no bearing on the ASDA decision. I'm sure the ASDA application was looked at entirely on its own merits by all of the Councillors.
Perhaps people should find out why it was rejected first before jumping to conclusions. Could even be something thats not so difficult to fix!
Just signed well done tuggs!! hubby reckons we should all bombard the council office with letters of complaint about the decision and demanding they rethink this! Had I known that letters of support were wanted I would have sent one but like everyone else I thought it was a done deal and it was definately happening. I would also like to know how 1 forum member has stated that he and his partner sent individual letters of support and the council claim only to have recieved 1 single letter of support, SOMETHING SMELLS FISHY!!
Well said Unicorn - I am the same - had I known we could/should send letters of support I would've done so and am away to do one now. What a kick in the teeth to the people of Thurso!
pultneytooner
26-Jun-06, 22:25
ok petition done, hope it is to your approval :D
http://www.petitiononline.com/asda/petition.html
Why not post a different thread with the url and an explanation and ask the admin to make it a sticky so the post is always at the top?
Just signed well done tuggs!! hubby reckons we should all bombard the council office with letters of complaint about the decision and demanding they rethink this! Had I known that letters of support were wanted I would have sent one but like everyone else I thought it was a done deal and it was definately happening. I would also like to know how 1 forum member has stated that he and his partner sent individual letters of support and the council claim only to have recieved 1 single letter of support, SOMETHING SMELLS FISHY!!
I too have signed the petition and have emailed the link to a few friends...
I too thought the ASDA was a done deal...irritated that its not....I like the idea of choice.:eek:
Without sounding like a nagg, please can some people take this petition seriously. One name has appeared 3 times already, this will only give people who are opposed to it a good excuse to rubish the petition, and we wouldnt want that.
Paula is there anything you can do to delete this.
Tugmistress
26-Jun-06, 22:30
just having a look kas, btw check out the 'tugmistress' thread down the board, your advice required please kas!
kwbrown111
26-Jun-06, 22:31
Well done on petition Tugmistress. Let's show these so called councillors we mean business and hopefully vote them all out in May(wish it were sooner). I wonder how much Tesco is paying?
Phoebus_Apollo
26-Jun-06, 22:32
I was sickened to read that ASDA have been refused planning permission. What do these objectors think the future of this town is??
There needs to be some form of sustainable employment.Dounreay is losing more and more people every week and the tourist industry is in decline.
ASDA would have been a great asset to Thurso - which presently seems to be heading towards a retirment village in 2040..
Here is the full application from the Highland council website. (http://www.highland.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/D148828A-653A-42A6-AF6C-EED8BB5066EF/0/c_p_154_06.pdf)
(Note two of the objectors where from Tain!!)
I think this is a ridiculous decision. We are the people of Caithness, and most of us were in favour of Asda coming to Thurso - don't our views and opinions count any more?
I live in Wick, but I am still in favour of Asda coming to Thurso, and most of the people I know in Wick and Thurso are of the same opinion.
For Goodness Sake - we need places like Tesco and Asda in Wick.
Without sounding like a nagg, please can some people take this petition seriously. One name has appeared 3 times already, this will only give people who are opposed to it a good excuse to rubish the petition, and we wouldnt want that.
Paula is there anything you can do to delete this.
I entered that name and i only did it once . I do take this seriously .
Not sure why it has added the name 3 times.
Tugmistress
26-Jun-06, 22:40
Not sure that i can do it manually :(
though the FAQs do say ....
How are petition signatures validated?
Unlike the various flaky email petitions that periodically wander around the Internet, with PetitionOnline there is exactly one authoritative master copy of your petition. Each signature and email address (always required, but optionally confidential) is logged for possible explicit or statistical validation. Duplicate signatures are automatically rejected, and each person who signs is automatically sent a confirming email message.
Validation is a somewhat separate issue from delivery. Delivery will only include the email addresses of petition signers who have made their address public ally available. (A petition could be set up so that public email addresses are required, but it would be likely to get far fewer signers.)
If deeper validation of a petition is really called for, PetitionOnline.com has the technical ability to perform a statistical validation by contacting a sampling of signers directly via the email addresses we have privately archived. This kind of more serious validation is not included in our free petition hosting offer, but can be arranged on a cost-contract basis (see below).
Ensuring identity without invading privacy is quite a challenge. We don't see that a perfect solution is currently available, given that there is not yet any widespread foolproof system for establishing online identity. An email address is not enough to establish identity by itself, but it is substantially more than just a name, and it provides a link back to a person for (the potential of) confirming identity.
..........
i'll hope it picks up on the repeats or it is just a hiccup in the system, i will check tomorrow to see if the duplications have gone. if not i will get in touch and see what can be done :D
I entered that name and i only did it once . I do take this seriously .
Not sure why it has added the name 3 times.
Sorry, I thought someone was taking the mickey.
On the BBC website it says:-
Rob Gibson, SNP MSP for Highlands and Islands, praised the committee.
He said: "Supermarket expansion has to meet very strict criteria to protect the local economy."
[/url]
How would ASDA hurt the local economy??????
90% of the food shopping in Thurso at the moment is done in Sommerfield and the CO-OP. They are not local businesses and their profits don't stay in the county.
Yip, the petrol stations would suffer, but don't believe for a second they've not been ripping us off for years.
The councillors are supposed to be representing the views of the people in their respective areas and to support what is best for the population. What research have they done? Are those who voted against it deaf dumb and blind? It is OBVIOUS the VAST majority of Thurso folk want ASDA.
I sympathise with the people who live right in front of the site, they're gonna lose a lovely view but, as has been quoted by councillors on the planning committee many times a view is a bonus, not a right. Surely then any of the 70 odd objections citing this should be dismissed?
And what has a wick councillor who has been shouting his support for Tesco got to do with it. HYPOCRITE and shame on you.
concerned resident
26-Jun-06, 22:52
Sorry to hear the news, just watched the add on TV, stating spend £50 and get 5 pence of a litre at Tesco’s, Guess where I will be doing my shopping come December (not Thurso)
The general public were looking forward to a new Adsa, If so many people objected because of the views being blocked, the planning department are always quoting views are not considered in planning objections. Or did our local shop owners state that they would not object, as a ruse, and they all sent in there objection letters, they will be laughing all the way to the bank now. The conspiracy implications are there, what is the hidden agenda of the councillors, are they all masons, or do they all own property in Wick.
The truth is out there.
coppertop 1958
26-Jun-06, 22:54
the majority of us want asda in thurso about time there was good prices in the town and saves me going down the A9 all the time to get good prices we all have to do something about this ...... ASDA FOR THURSO AND FOR US ALL
I think its terrible that asda has been refused thurso has lacked a decent store for years and its not just that as well asda could have created more jobs for the locals and econemy in general
SandTiger
26-Jun-06, 23:24
Re. the multiple petition posts...
These petitions can cause the odd glitch so we'll delete the duplicates and resume normal service, in the intrests of fairness ;) :lol:
what some ppl will do to hit the head lines and get their pic in the local papers im talking about the sleeping councillor [SMITH] first he threw in the towel with the lib dems no headlines they were glad to get rid of him , next he was banging his drum for the heat project in wick but theirs a smarter councillor than him in charge of that project that out manouvered him easy done,
dont forget ppl councillor smith is a south mouther that has not grown up yet so what do you expect from him he might have degrees spoon fed parrot fashion to him but something he dont have is common sence thats why you get this kind of decisions
he has now changed his lapel badge from lib dems to SPOT THE FOOL
concerned resident
26-Jun-06, 23:52
I think it is about time the people of Caithness, reviewed what they have as Councillors,
There are enough enemies at the gate, trying to take what little Caithness gets away down south, now we find the enemy is already here, working against the majority, of the wishes of the general public. Even one of our MSP’s thinks we should not have an ASDA, even if he lives near to plenty of supermarkets. Its bad enough being told what to do generally by MSP‘s, and none of them even live up here.
I also wrote a letter of support for Asda coming to thurso and put it in the councils letter box, so what happened to our letters if there was only one presented at the meeting.......very odd. i am very dissapointed. i was looking forward to Asda and it would have given a lot of employment to the town.
Will just have to go to Tain where Asda is building next.
Lets use 'people power', we can vote & comment, if we all vote then they will have to change their minds or ...... come up with a very good reason, we should have more jobs in Caithness, Wick or Thurso and the cost of living up here is probably more expensive than inner London but the wages are 3rd world.
SandTiger
27-Jun-06, 00:09
... the cost of living up here is probably more expensive than inner London but the wages are 3rd world.
No probably about it! Funny how a bit of healthy competion can benfit consumers over what are seen as local cartels (See previous petrol gripes/threads on here) :roll:
I have an ASDA close to me and it is brilliant .. I dont live in Wick but if I did I wouldnt give up on this and would go direct to ASDA who are considering an appeal .. I wouldnt go near Councillors as I have seen how corrupt they can be for myself .. you cant vote these idiots out until the next election and you are stuck with them till then so why not make them squirm in public as much as possible .. I am sure ASDA will be watching things closely ..... :cool:
Tugmistress
27-Jun-06, 00:16
if you want to write an individual letter of support to ASDA themselves, i think this is the snail mail addy ....
Asda
ASDA House, Southbank, Great Wilson Street
LS11 5AD
Leeds
England
For the benefit of those who don't know the area intimately:
The vast majority of the objectors (almost all of them) live in the streets on the north side of the Pennyland estate, ie the streets bordering the site of the proposed development, plus there are a few from Upper Burnside. There are very few objectors living east of Castlegreen Road or South of Pennyland Drive, and, as far as I can see, there's not a single objection from anyone living in Ormlie, Springpark, or Mount Vernon. There are several cases of multiple objections from the same household - up to four in a couple of cases. It's the most extreme case of NIMBYism I have EVER seen!
Oh yes, and don't forget that one of the "no" councillors lives very close to the proposed site. Not that I would ever insinsuate that he's a NIMBY. After all, he does seem to be a fan of Lidl - he supported their case wholeheartedly. And you can vote for or against him in the 2003 council elections - his website tells us that he's standing for re-election in 2003. :roll:
Note added later... Whoops, I didn't do my homework very carefully. It seems that two of the "no" councillors live very close to the proposed site.
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 01:38
Signed the petition and forwarded the link on to a few folk. Hope the decision gets overturned. Who do these councillors think they represent. Hope they don't last much longer on the council. Did they canvas local opinion before they voted on this? Its a "word I am not allowed to type" disgrace. Come on Asda appeal against it.
I took a quick look at the Planning Refusal which is more a list of excuses than reasons.
The objections are from what are plainly from self-interest and self-protection groups. I immediately write off the objections from certain other Retail Outlets on the obvious grounds that, "They would, wouldn't they!", to quote a lady of certain notoriety.
The report insists, “farmland should be preserved.” I am astounded to realise that there would appear to be a danger of Caithness running short of farmland. This, to my eternal same, is something I had not previously noticed.
I also noticed that the Local Plan “supports the creation of a Public Park that will preserve open panoramic views across the sea”. (Didn’t I read something recently about the loss of a view was not a reason to oppose a planning application)
Yet in the next breath the comment is made that “there is no need for a playing field in this location”.
“We want it for a Public Park but not a Playing Field.” Well, I will have to give serious consideration to the vast difference between the two.
Part of the area is allocated “for a hotel and a small museum.” Now what was that again about “preserving farmland”?
The creation of 250 jobs is disingenuous because “ANY (my capitals) loss of smaller retail stores will result in job losses.” Which, in effect says even one small retail store closing will cause in excess of 250 job losses.
“There is already adequate provision of food stores in the town.” Oh yes, and just how was that wonderful conclusion arrived at? How typical of the “like it or lump it” attitude which prevails when there is hardly any competition. The “well if you don’t like the stuff I sell then ‘tough’ because there is nowhere else to go” attitude is long past it’ “Sell by Date”.
And finally, the comment that says everything you need to know about the refusal, “the filling station is to large.”
Well folks, from all the above and the other pathetic excuses in the report not worth a mention, you can each have two guesses as to just why the application was turned down.
And I will bet none of you will get a headache working it out!
willowbankbear
27-Jun-06, 01:58
I smell conspiracy, I cant see any reason why the Asda store cant be built, can the councillors give us a good reason? Id like to hear it & Im sure most folk on here would too.:eek:
I also noticed that the Local Plan “supports the creation of a Public Park that will preserve open panoramic views across the sea”. (Didn’t I read something recently about the loss of a view was not a reason to oppose a planning application)
I thought that an'all!
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 02:04
I smell conspiracy, I cant see any reason why the Asda store cant be built, can the councillors give us a good reason? Id like to hear it & Im sure most folk on here would too.:eek:
MAybe a public meeting should be called to allow the councilors that voted in this decision to give the reasons why they voted as they did. It is only fair that they face the people they represent.
Mr P Cannop
27-Jun-06, 07:12
MAybe a public meeting should be called to allow the councilors that voted in this decision to give the reasons why they voted as they did. It is only fair that they face the people they represent.
aye i think there should be a big pubic meeting. Bill fernie could you sort out a meeting ??
As a Wicker I have logged my support for the ASDA in Thurso this is all about the whole economy of all caithness I urge all others to do so to
Mr P Cannop
27-Jun-06, 07:53
i give my support for the Asda in Thurso
I support Tugmistress's point about sending a letter of support to Asda. If they do appeal they will need enough fire power to back them up. Perhaps someone could draft a standard letter backing up their bid and then post it for everyone to download, sign and post to them? I know how hard it can be to motivate people to write their own letters, so give them one they just have to sign and post. Don't forget, anyone of voting age can submit so there could be several from each household! Keep up the good fight. Remember you you will not be voting for come the next local elections.;)
i was really shocked when i heard this..
Asda would be a big boon for thurso and kept a lot of people shopping in thurso.
as has already been mentioned.. now everyone will just come thru to wick.
i live in wick.. and was really really looking forward to asda..
as most of you thought it was a done deal.
this is a disgrace..
no offence bill.. (not meaning you when i say this) but what in daylights are the council doing?
is it not their job to improve the county?
and take us into the future, not hold us back...
OK…..deep breath….I am going to stick my neck out here in the full expectation of being crucified!! I am one of the residents of the area edging onto the proposed ASDA site who objected to the outline proposal. My objection was not one of loss of view, I am perfectly aware that this not a relevant reason. My objection was that the proposal came shortly on the back of an extensive public consultation with the local council to formulate the current local plan. In this plan the area between Ormlie and the Business Park (BT & Battery Factory) was given over for housing and a 9 hectare area was designated for business purposes – both these areas would be linked by the new Western Distributor Road which would give far better access from both Ormlie, Heathfield, Gills, Burnside and the bulk of the rear end of Pennyland – this was done with the understanding that the remaining two fields to the south of the A836 would be used for a 1.2 hectare hotel and public amenity land. You can see the local plan on:
http://cgi.www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/devplans/caith/adopted/thurso.pdf (http://cgi.www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/devplans/caith/adopted/thurso.pdf)
in particular para 35 and the map on page 65. The 9 hectare business land is only a 1 minute drive from the proposed site and remains available for development. To change the local plan the Councillors had to be satisfied that the rigorous Government Planning Criteria had been met (see paragraph 45 of http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/1998/10/nppg8 (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/1998/10/nppg8)
If all of the 11 criteria could not be met then the Council would have to refuse the plan being contrary to the local plan.
The majority of the residents (and I must add the “no” voting councillors) are not against ASDA coming to Thurso, quite the contrary. Quite a number of us feel that the area designated for business development already (which is at least double the size of the proposed area) would have a far greater accessibility and as the road infrastructure would be in place to cope with a store of this size it would negate the requirement for yet another roundabout at the Scrabster junction. At the meeting yesterday we requested that ASDA and the councillors should consider this area of land.
I completely understand everyone’s anger, if this makes me a NIMBY then so be it. Please take time out to read the local plan and look at the alternatives – there is a lot of history to the fight to retain this area. I am now off to put on my flack jacket and steel helmet before the replies start…………please be gentle!!
Niall Fernie
27-Jun-06, 09:09
Wow, what a decision!!!
And just before Thurso Gala as well, I can picture the floats now.
Its not as if the recent poll (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=6256) on here would suggest that people really wanted ASDA, after all 83% in favour isn't that convincing is it?
Why is the tune from "Jilted John" running round my head just now?
I wonder how well Councillor Smith slept last night. He might be lucky and still be in time for a job in Tescos, I would think yesterday would stand him in good stead.
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 09:25
Well done for voicing you opinion even if it is different to almost all the county;) What we want now is for those who voted to come on a say why they voted the way they did.
OK…..deep breath….I am going to stick my neck out here in the full expectation of being crucified!! I am one of the residents of the area edging onto the proposed ASDA site who objected to the outline proposal. My objection was not one of loss of view, I am perfectly aware that this not a relevant reason. My objection was that the proposal came shortly on the back of an extensive public consultation with the local council to formulate the current local plan. In this plan the area between Ormlie and the Business Park (BT & Battery Factory) was given over for housing and a 9 hectare area was designated for business purposes – both these areas would be linked by the new Western Distributor Road which would give far better access from both Ormlie, Heathfield, Gills, Burnside and the bulk of the rear end of Pennyland – this was done with the understanding that the remaining two fields to the south of the A836 would be used for a 1.2 hectare hotel and public amenity land. You can see the local plan on:
http://cgi.www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/devplans/caith/adopted/thurso.pdf (http://cgi.www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/devplans/caith/adopted/thurso.pdf)
in particular para 35 and the map on page 65. The 9 hectare business land is only a 1 minute drive from the proposed site and remains available for development. To change the local plan the Councillors had to be satisfied that the rigorous Government Planning Criteria had been met (see paragraph 45 of http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/1998/10/nppg8 (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/1998/10/nppg8)
If all of the 11 criteria could not be met then the Council would have to refuse the plan being contrary to the local plan.
The majority of the residents (and I must add the “no” voting councillors) are not against ASDA coming to Thurso, quite the contrary. Quite a number of us feel that the area designated for business development already (which is at least double the size of the proposed area) would have a far greater accessibility and as the road infrastructure would be in place to cope with a store of this size it would negate the requirement for yet another roundabout at the Scrabster junction. At the meeting yesterday we requested that ASDA and the councillors should consider this area of land.
I completely understand everyone’s anger, if this makes me a NIMBY then so be it. Please take time out to read the local plan and look at the alternatives – there is a lot of history to the fight to retain this area. I am now off to put on my flack jacket and steel helmet before the replies start…………please be gentle!!
kwbrown111
27-Jun-06, 09:34
He He Niall, maybe Donny MacKay could get a job as a shelf stacker again
I don't understand. If it's four for and four against - how is that a carried motion?
Tugmistress
27-Jun-06, 10:28
I have drafted a letter for people to copy and paste and added it into the sticky thread :D
hope it is useful.
SandTiger
27-Jun-06, 10:32
I don't understand. If it's four for and four against - how is that a carried motion?
Wick Councillor, Graham Smith used his casting vote.
Niall Fernie
27-Jun-06, 10:32
Because the chairman has an extra casting vote in case there is a tie, like in this case. So Councillor Smith was able to say "no" twice. If that doesn't illustrate his intentions for the county nothing will.
Why is the tune from "Jilted John" running round my head just now?
I don't know. The guy in the Jilted John song was Gordon.
Niall Fernie
27-Jun-06, 10:38
Yeah I know, but it doesnt take too much imagination to hear the slightly altered lyrics that I could hear in my head.
I don't understand. If it's four for and four against - how is that a carried motion?
It's the great flaw with most committees, Juries etc i.e. an even number of members. What were they thinking about?
Yeah I know, but it doesnt take too much imagination to hear the slightly altered lyrics that I could hear in my head.
I thought you were perhaps confusing him with the suave pundit and former sliky Rangers player Gordon Smith ;o)
The majority of the residents (and I must add the “no” voting councillors) are not against ASDA coming to Thurso, quite the contrary. Quite a number of us feel that the area designated for business development already (which is at least double the size of the proposed area) would have a far greater accessibility and as the road infrastructure would be in place to cope with a store of this size it would negate the requirement for yet another roundabout at the Scrabster junction.... and it wouldn't be in your back yard, and it wouldn't spoil your view. ;)
Moby, some of us had already figured all of this out for ourselves. But thanks for confirming the local residents' NIMBYist arguments.
Seriously, the alternative site may have some advantages, but your arguments don't seem very strong. And I'm still not sure whether you're trying to convince yourself or your readers! I think you'll have to do a lot better than that to convince the latter, and perhaps the former too. ;)
Its not as if the recent poll (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=6256) on here would suggest that people really wanted ASDA, after all 83% in favour isn't that convincing is it?Of those voters who claimed to live in Caithness, 154 out of 169 supported an ASDA store - that's a whopping 91% in favour.
Niall Fernie
27-Jun-06, 10:48
Of those voters who claimed to live in Caithness, 154 out of 169 supported an ASDA store - that's a whopping 91% in favour.
LOL, still not convincing enough I fear. I think it would have had to be closer to 99% to penetrate the heavy boned skulls of a few. And the 23(ish) signatures per hour currently being added to the petition is probably not a good indication of the desire of the locals either :roll:
I wonder if Councillor MacNab would have voted in favour of Asda had she been here and not on her summer holidays. By the way I thought Highland Council had a strong policy about taking children out of school before the holidays.....obviously if you're a councillor thats OK
How many supermarkets can Caithness support before it implodes?
I expect there will be cries of 'competition is good' but once the big players take over the market they will be the ones who set the prices higher than further south.
And perhaps your councillors took into account the effect that yet another superstore would have on local businesses. The big stores in the far south have been responsible for the demise of small town centre businesses - so the hopes of lots of new jobs has to be weighed up against the loss of long established local businesses. That means JOB LOSSES.
I see the future of Caithness - covered in Superstores, dotted by windfarms and covered in smog from car pollution caused by people driving miles back and forth to get the cheapest fuel or tin of beans........
...and when all these supermarket giants decide that their shareholders are losing money by having these stores in the far north and they close them, where are you going to shop then? You won't have a local baker, butcher or ironmonger. You will have dead town centres...
Tugmistress
27-Jun-06, 11:12
Signature number 380 .... real or someone taking the mickey? :roll:
Maybe the reason it was rejected was that ASDA gave them some inside information, like that they would only open at 9am and then close for lunch at 1pm reopening at 2pm and then closing at 5.30pm also they would be closed for a half day once a week and also closed for every bank and public holiday..!! they also said they would fix prices so that they wouldnt undercut their best mate who also owns a store, also they would only employ really grumpy and sour faced people to staff the shop who are completely unhelpful, with an ablity to yap for an hour about betty's foot ulcer whilst there is a customer standing behind waiting to be served for only a newspaper, faced with this inside information they reliased that the ASDA would be like every other store in the town and didnt seem we needed another one..!!
Jesus wept..!!!!
How many supermarkets can Caithness support before it implodes?
I expect there will be cries of 'competition is good' but once the big players take over the market they will be the ones who set the prices higher than further south.
And perhaps your councillors took into account the effect that yet another superstore would have on local businesses. The big stores in the far south have been responsible for the demise of small town centre businesses - so the hopes of lots of new jobs has to be weighed up against the loss of long established local businesses. That means JOB LOSSES.
I see the future of Caithness - covered in Superstores, dotted by windfarms and covered in smog from car pollution caused by people driving miles back and forth to get the cheapest fuel or tin of beans........
Thought ASDA and Tesco had a national set price???
So you would rather just wick have Tesco and kill the local shops in thurso. As most people will just pop into the local shops in wick while they have been shopping in tesco .
We are getting car pollution now people already drive miles as alot of us shop in Inverness dont need to wait for the future . Much better to have these things on our doorstep. Providing jobs, cheaper goods and less pollution.
Tugmistress
27-Jun-06, 11:15
OK,
signature 395 also a mickey take i reckon.
Don't worry, i have discovered how to void the lines and unless i am emailed by the 'alleged' councillors saying their sigs are valid, those lines will be deleted before printing and sending next week [evil]
Thought ASDA and Tesco had a national set price???
These are the No 1 & 2 supermarkets chains in the UK - they can do what they like. If they decide that transportation costs to Caithness need to be reflected in an increase in their prices who is going to stop them?
An Asda spokesman said it has a national pricing system which prevents any variation.
"We only sell products at one price, and it's the same price whether it's in Scotland or Cornwall. We don't have different prices at different stores, and we don't have different prices online".
We'll see.......
Because the chairman has an extra casting vote in case there is a tie, like in this case. So Councillor Smith was able to say "no" twice. If that doesn't illustrate his intentions for the county nothing will.
How can he vote twice? I thought Chairman's casting vote was only if they had not already voted but obviously I'm wrong. How did this man ever get elected?
Countryman
27-Jun-06, 11:51
Can A Councillor not take this to a full council meeting for it to be ratified then we will know what all the Councillors think and may be get a proper view of where they all stand - Hope G Smith enjoys his job at Tesco's bet it's not at minimum wage.
redbaron1947
27-Jun-06, 12:07
Ridiculous decision by ridiculous councillors who do not represent the community. They will be voted out.
I think the whole ASDA thing is just typical of the council in caithness it is a joke and wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else in the country. Where I now live there is an ASDA 4 times bigger than the one proposed for Thurso currently being build on a greenfield site within 500 yards of a Tesco Superstore that is open 24h and within 900 yards of a Morrisons Superstore which stays open until 9pm each night. I didn't see my new councillors complaining about it as it brings jobs and prosperity to an area with high unemployment (similar to Thurso and wick). The councillors should be ashamed of themselves but I'm guessing there is more to it than we will ever find out. Moon cats last comments sums it all up for me!!! it is sooooo true..
Murdina Bug
27-Jun-06, 12:40
At the risk of getting my head in my hands, I am glad that Asda did not get permission for this site. I WOULD like Asda here but I really don't think that is an appropriate site for a superstore. I'm still not keen on the location of Lidls and it is a pipsqueak compared to something the size of Asda.
A structure like that would completely overtake the whole vista there - maybe a point that some of the councillers had in mind? I think the ones that opposed were brave to speak their minds and we should be pleased that they are not being railroaded into something they don't feel is right. I am sure that there must be less prominent sites that could be utilised instead of squeezing this in between housing estates.
Right, I'm climbing into the Anderson shelter now.....;)
Certainly NONE of the 4/5 NO voting Councillors was representing my wishes!
I really hope that ASDA will have another go at planning permissions again.
Councillors should respect the views and wishes of the majority and should not just judge those important things on the objections of a few folks who fear for their view across the bay being spoilt...
I hope that this will be well remembered when it comes to elections next year....
The whole ASDA thing is a sad and hard to believe carryon. Shame on those who are only looking backwards and not forward.
How many supermarkets can Caithness support before it implodes?
I said the same thing when I heard Tesco were coming to Wick. Much of the complaint about the permission for an ASDA being turned down seems to be a gut-reaction and an East versus West concern.
People seemed happy enough about Tesco coming to Wick, it was good for competition, would actually HELP the town centre etc. Now it is being touted as a bad thing because people will travel down from Thurso to visit it!!
Local residents have a set amount of money to spend on shopping. If it is £100 and £70 of that goes to Somerfield, then what happens when that £70 goes to Tesco instead? That is £70 Somerfield have now lost out on. If the bulk of people, and it seems certain from all polls that it will be the case, follow suit then it is tata Somerfield. Jobs gained in Tesco are lost in Somerfield.
Creating jobs through an industry that requires the locals to spend more money is an impossible way to progress. The county needs a different influx of jobs to provide prosperity and genuine improvement.
There seems to be an obsession with cheaper shopping, yet the majority of people I see are running with cars, the latest fashions, mobile phones, 32" widescreen tellies etc, hardly on the bones of the old Rodney Marsh!!
Anyway, let's all do away with elected representatives and simply have an online poll to decide on every issue in the land. Should we invade Syria? Yes No or Don't Know?
Scorrie, it's not a matter of the number of supermarkets. ASDA is far better than Somerfield. In fact, Somerfield is the worst of all the supermarkets imho. Well, perhaps the Co-op is worse, but it's a close-run thing. :D
(My local Somerfield closed down recently, and everyone I know was euphoric because we got something much better. That probably wouldn't happen in Thurso, mind.)
People may have a fixed amount to spend on food, drink, clothes, TVs, DVDs, CDs, etc, but isn't it better for Caithness that they spend it in Caithness rather than in Inverness or on cheap'n'nasty.com?
Jobs are obviously important but a supermarket ain't gonna provide jobs for the whole of Thurso, so I wouldn't base a case for ASDA on vastly-increased employment. It's obvious that you can't base a local economy solely on increased spending, but you need a half-decent local retail infrastructure to support that economy - whatever it may be.
Ok Scorrie and MadPict, how would you improve the local economy? Be positive and constructive for a change.
Murdina Bug, where would you propose to site a new ASDA in Thurso?
Because the chairman has an extra casting vote in case there is a tie, like in this case. So Councillor Smith was able to say "no" twice. If that doesn't illustrate his intentions for the county nothing will.
For goodness sake! It's pointless to allow someone who voted already to have the casting vote. Obviously they are going to vote the same way again - so why bother!
For goodness sake! It's pointless to allow someone who voted already to have the casting vote. Obviously they are going to vote the same way again - so why bother!
If this was such a good thing why doesnt it happen in Jurys, if it is a tie why dont they go away and recosider and someone might change their mind, also arent there meant to be an uneven number to avoid a farce like this, especially in a really important decision as this...?????
At the risk of getting my head in my hands, I am glad that Asda did not get permission for this site. I WOULD like Asda here but I really don't think that is an appropriate site for a superstore. I'm still not keen on the location of Lidls and it is a pipsqueak compared to something the size of Asda.
A structure like that would completely overtake the whole vista there - maybe a point that some of the councillers had in mind? I think the ones that opposed were brave to speak their minds and we should be pleased that they are not being railroaded into something they don't feel is right. I am sure that there must be less prominent sites that could be utilised instead of squeezing this in between housing estates.
Right, I'm climbing into the Anderson shelter now.....;)
So you should!! so the rest of us should suffer all because a handful of people will get their view spoilt? As someone already pointed out, there was no hesitation to erect big ugly windmills that people had objected to but they were ignored ( as usual ). as for the councillors being brave to speak their minds, I sure brave is one way of looking at it, but pure stupid to contradict the will of the public who they are suppose to represent , is another way of looking at it. I suppose you would be happy for Asda to be erected in someone elses back yard.
changilass
27-Jun-06, 14:43
They can erect it im my back yard, imagine being able to nip next door for goodies when you get the munchies.
footie chick
27-Jun-06, 14:49
So you should!! so the rest of us should suffer all because a handful of people will get their view spoilt?
How many times has it been in the local papers that planning permission has been given because as Mr Ewart stated no-one has the right to a view. The petition speaks for itself! Come on ASDA!
Wow when did I become Trusted!!! missed that one ;-)
One law for them one for us, by the looks of things.
Is there a right of appeal on this decision? Is there a higher authority? Can the submission be made again?
Rubha_an_Tuir
27-Jun-06, 15:07
Agree this is scandalous, but can't help picturing the Stone Cutters Scene from the Simpsons in the decision making process...
"we do" - The Stonecutters Song from the Simpsons.....
Who controls the Caithness Towns?
Who turns Asda's planning down?
We do! We do!
Who Put Tesco on the maps?
Who keeps back handers under wraps?
We do! We do!
Niall Fernie
27-Jun-06, 15:24
Is there a right of appeal on this decision? Is there a higher authority? Can the submission be made again?
Yes, yes and again, yes. ;)
Ok Scorrie and MadPict, how would you improve the local economy? Be positive and constructive for a change.
I'm not an economist Doc, so would not try to fluff out any argument with big words or figures, but I will say that from what I have seen of the large supermarkets actions in the deep south, the claims of some on this site that it is a good thing is a double edged sword. Sure it will create jobs, but as I have said, at the expense of others.
While competition is a good thing market dominance by one or two big players is not. The town centres will have the lifeblood drained from them as the customers are drawn to Asda and Tesco - this has happened here. First Tesco built a big store on the edge of town. Then Sainsbury's got premission to build one in the town. The Tesco opened up a Metro. Now M&S have opened up a Food Store. All the time the small shopkeepers are being frozen out because they cannot keep pace with the low prices that the big chains can wield.
So the small shops close, people complain because the town centres look rundown and empty, but forget that their hoots of joy at the big boys moving in are in part responsible for this. They took their money out of the towns and into the pockets of Tesco, Asda etc.
How would I improve things in Wick or Thurso? I honestly don't know. I do know that people who try to open up businesses in these towns seem to last a couple of years then give up. It would be interesting to find out from the people who tried to improve things why they folded and left.
Bobinovich
27-Jun-06, 16:32
How would I improve things in Wick or Thurso? I honestly don't know. I do know that people who try to open up businesses in these towns seem to last a couple of years then give up. It would be interesting to find out from the people who tried to improve things why they folded and left.
I think many small businesses fold for the following reasons...
high overheads (rates, rents, etc.)
too specific niche market (there's insufficient population to support niches unless you are also marketing well via the web)
overpricing (in order to cover their costs - usually goes hand in hand with niche market)
underpricing (not enough profit to justify staying open unless you sell by the tonne)I can understand some of the trepidation at the thought of a big supermarket name arriving on our doorstep - as a sole trader I know they will take part of my business away. However I already have plans to diversify and trade away from the areas which they offer, and hope to rely on my loyal customer base to show that they still need my services and stock.
I also know that some of Thurso's other small businesses will suffer - however they to0 must learn to diversify. This could mean expanding their stock to cover items not supplied by the supermarket or offering a wider range of services. Either way they must plan ahead to remain in the game.
However to encourage both new and exisiting local businesses the council must reduce business rates and, unless they want to see their properties empty or converted into yet more residential housing, the private landlords will have to lower their rents too.
The last thing we want is more cheapie / charity shops - Thurso has lost enough quality retail property already.
Does the planning committee voting system work in the same way as the "away goal" rule in European football? i.e. The votes were even but with Graham Smith being from Wick it's deemed to have equal value :)
Seriously though, if the vote ended level the ethical way to make a decision would be to follow the professional advice of the planning officer.
For the benefit of those who don't know the area intimately:
The vast majority of the objectors (almost all of them) live in the streets on the north side of the Pennyland estate, ie the streets bordering the site of the proposed development, plus there are a few from Upper Burnside. There are very few objectors living east of Castlegreen Road or South of Pennyland Drive, and, as far as I can see, there's not a single objection from anyone living in Ormlie, Springpark, or Mount Vernon. There are several cases of multiple objections from the same household - up to four in a couple of cases. It's the most extreme case of NIMBYism I have EVER seen!
Oh yes, and don't forget that one of the "no" councillors lives very close to the proposed site. Not that I would ever insinsuate that he's a NIMBY. After all, he does seem to be a fan of Lidl - he supported their case wholeheartedly. And you can vote for or against him in the 2003 council elections - his website tells us that he's standing for re-election in 2003. :roll:
Note added later... Whoops, I didn't do my homework very carefully. It seems that two of the "no" councillors live very close to the proposed site.
To be perfectly honest, I sympathise with the folk who are going to have their view spoiled by the proposed ASDA buildings, and they have every right to complain. As well as losing their view, or part of it, the market value of their homes could take a plunge. If I was still living where I used to in Thurso, my name might well have been on that petition also! I'm not totally against the idea of an ASDA in Thurso, but I think a better location should have been chosen. My suggestion would be a bit further up the road, on the west side of the Henderson Business Park.
Murdina Bug
27-Jun-06, 16:58
So you should!! so the rest of us should suffer all because a handful of people will get their view spoilt? As someone already pointed out, there was no hesitation to erect big ugly windmills that people had objected to but they were ignored ( as usual ). as for the councillors being brave to speak their minds, I sure brave is one way of looking at it, but pure stupid to contradict the will of the public who they are suppose to represent , is another way of looking at it. I suppose you would be happy for Asda to be erected in someone elses back yard.
Don't suppose to know what I mean! I hardly think we are going to 'suffer' just because a supermarket is not built!! What I said was that I did not think it a suitable site for a large structure - not necessarily because it will spoil the view from some housing - but because it will be (no doubt) a metal clad large box which will be out of place in that setting. I hope that Asda do come to Thurso but I would be pleased if other sites were considered.
As an englishman from London all this hype about small shops closing down has no grounds wotsoever, i lived in a town on outskirts of London and it had all the small local businesses which were intact and the big supermarkets and more. They are going to have to lash their prices to compete but that is all.
Everyone will survive, the town will stay the same and gain a supermarket in the process, but you will lose a view over the sea for around about 1000metres, "wot a bummer eh we cant have that".
Most of the people who dont agree with Asda have their own selfish reasons to object and do not think of the county as a whole.
Scorrie, it's not a matter of the number of supermarkets. ASDA is far better than Somerfield. In fact, Somerfield is the worst of all the supermarkets imho. Well, perhaps the Co-op is worse, but it's a close-run thing. :D
(My local Somerfield closed down recently, and everyone I know was euphoric because we got something much better. That probably wouldn't happen in Thurso, mind.)
People may have a fixed amount to spend on food, drink, clothes, TVs, DVDs, CDs, etc, but isn't it better for Caithness that they spend it in Caithness rather than in Inverness or on cheap'n'nasty.com?
Jobs are obviously important but a supermarket ain't gonna provide jobs for the whole of Thurso, so I wouldn't base a case for ASDA on vastly-increased employment. It's obvious that you can't base a local economy solely on increased spending, but you need a half-decent local retail infrastructure to support that economy - whatever it may be.
Ok Scorrie and MadPict, how would you improve the local economy? Be positive and constructive for a change.
Murdina Bug, where would you propose to site a new ASDA in Thurso?
I am no economist either.
I am however more than a blind sheep, following the hype and brainwashing. What proof have YOU got that an ASDA is going to make Thurso and Caithness a better place?
This thread is an almost 100% rant against the people who decided to turn the planning down and it is typical that those who voice a different opinion get barked down and are accused of not being constructive. I am merely looking beyond the myth and poor arguement that is put forward in support of the supposed Panacea that is ASDA.
ASDA is owned by the USA giant Walmart. Now can you please explain to me how money spent in an ASDA in Thurso is somehow staying in Caithness?
Another point I am trying to make is that, out of the 90 odd percent who want an ASDA, how many people have actually thought through logically the pros and cons in any depth, and how many have just been like the kid looking in the sweetie shop window and wanting that big shiny chocolate bar?
Some of the responses here have been akin to that of a baby who has just had his bottle pulled away in mid-feed.
All right, ASDA might be a better supermarket than Somerfield but then Marks and Spencers is better than other shops in Thurso, does that mean we should also demand a Marks and Spencers for Caithness as well?
Where are our Art Galleries and Museums, our theatres and multiplex cinemas? The fact is that you cannot expect to have all the advantages of city life in a largely rural area.
My observations on the saviours that have come to Wick, i.e. Homebase, New Look, Argos and Superdrug is that they are not very busy compared to the initial surge. Pretty quiet in fact. Homebase are pretty damned expensive and most of the staff on the tills seem pretty much devoid of character. It will be interesting to see how they all fare long-term, I can certainly say that they are not saving me any money.
Scorrie you are missing the point totally.
80 odd percent of the county want a ASDA and the councillors.....all four of them didnt. So thousands of people lose out because of 4 people representing us.
That is why people are ranting its called democracy.
We want a Asda and we are doing something about it
The Pepsi Challenge
27-Jun-06, 17:16
There are local council elections next year: if you don't like what your local representatives are doing, then vote them out! Or organise a pro-ASDA campaign, and put up candidates against the ones you don't like. Note that half of Caithness's ten councillors were "elected" unopposed at the last election (http://www.caithness.org/fpb/election2003/index.htm). That's not much of a democracy in my book. But you can't complain if no-one stands against them.
For years I've wanted the local councillors out - they've been voting themselves in for far too long - and not all of them are even from Caithness, either. Anyway, read what the good Doctor says. Take his prescription.
The Pepsi Challenge
27-Jun-06, 17:17
As an englishman from London all this hype about small shops closing down has no grounds wotsoever, i lived in a town on outskirts of London and it had all the small local businesses which were intact and the big supermarkets and more. They are going to have to lash their prices to compete but that is all.
Everyone will survive, the town will stay the same and gain a supermarket in the process, but you will lose a view over the sea for around about 1000metres, "wot a bummer eh we cant have that".
Most of the people who dont agree with Asda have their own selfish reasons to object and do not think of the county as a whole.
What town's that, then? Noddyland?
Scorrie you are missing the point totally.
80 odd percent of the county want a ASDA and the councillors.....all four of them didnt. So thousands of people lose out because of 4 people representing us.
That is why people are ranting its called democracy.
We want a Asda and we are doing something about it
No, you are missing the point totally. The people get their chance to vote these councillors out at the next election. It is the same with the government. You get your chance and have to live with what goes on till the next time there is a vote. You can't vote for Tony Blair and expect to be able to petition him out for something you disagree with two months later!!
You cannot expect to spit the dummy out and expect heads to roll based on a desire for something the area has managed to survive without since Adam was a boy.
Scorrie you are missing the point totally.
80 odd percent of the county want a ASDA and the councillors.....all four of them didnt. So thousands of people lose out because of 4 people representing us.
That is why people are ranting its called democracy.
We want a Asda and we are doing something about it Well said, I think scorrie is starting to get worried by our petition and that is why scorrie is kicking up like a baby who has their bottle taken away mid feed.
As another Southerner, who used to live in Thurso, I do have an Asda near me. It is not an ugly metal box but a rather tasteful building that also includes a post office, cafe, shoe shop, chemist, bank, estate agent, photographer, mobility shop, Timpson's shoe repairs to name a few. I do not think the proposed site is acceptable because it is rather scenic, but I do believe that there are other sites around that will do.
Asda have brought the following to the area:
good jobs
low costs
support for projects in the community
cheaper petrol (but I do not use them)
choice - something that Thurso residents haven't been given
We actually had a Sainsbury's built a couple of years ago just along the road from me. They came along in a big info wagon thingey with drawings, plans, scale models and representatives. You could discuss the impact that might happen (such as additional traffic), what they were offering the local community, what future plans they had (such as expansion), etc. Then the local community got to make the choice.
What information and choice have you been given? Not a lot!![disgust]
As an englishman from London all this hype about small shops closing down has no grounds wotsoever, i lived in a town on outskirts of London and it had all the small local businesses which were intact and the big supermarkets and more. They are going to have to lash their prices to compete but that is all.
Everyone will survive, the town will stay the same and gain a supermarket in the process, but you will lose a view over the sea for around about 1000metres, "wot a bummer eh we cant have that".
Most of the people who dont agree with Asda have their own selfish reasons to object and do not think of the county as a whole.
I cannot see how a town in London can be compared to Caithness. People in Caithness cannot buy goods in cheaply enough to cut their prices too far. Lidls are often selling items for less than local shops can buy them in for. How do you cut below that?
The general pattern with Tescos coming to towns is that the centre of the town gets sucked out. These giants are on a mission to dispose of the opposition. The strategy for these guys is to be a one-stop shop where their customers can buy everything, top up their petrol and go home again without even having to spend money on parking fees. The Tesco in Dingwall never built the parking spaces they promised and then tried to use up 10 of the existing parking spaces to erect a marquee to sell plants. They will not see anyone having a niche product without trying to gobble up that extra few pennies for themselves.
Please explain to me how EVERYONE can survive. There is only so much money people can spend. You CANNOT provide the spending power to keep an infinite amount of supermarkets going with a finite amount of money.
Well said, I think scorrie is starting to get worried by our petition and that is why scorrie is kicking up like a baby who has their bottle taken away mid feed.
Why would I be worried by a petition? I have no financial interest at all in ASDA coming or not coming. I am simply trying to add a different perspective to the argument. How many petitions and polls do we need to prove that most people want an ASDA?
I couldn't give two hoots about ASDA or Tesco, they will not enhance my life in any way.
By the way, get your own turn of phrase and don't nick mine ;o)
No, you are missing the point totally. The people get their chance to vote these councillors out at the next election. It is the same with the government. You get your chance and have to live with what goes on till the next time there is a vote. You can't vote for Tony Blair and expect to be able to petition him out for something you disagree with two months later!!
You cannot expect to spit the dummy out and expect heads to roll based on a desire for something the area has managed to survive without since Adam was a boy.
Ahh but is the county surviving? Looks to me like its going to hell in a handcart.
We are getting overcharged left right and centre for the majority of things up here especialy fuel, and yet the council are saying that although our council tax has risin we will recieve a cut in services, the roads are a disgrace and tourism is declining, and clearly the council is not helping matters in the way they have been handling our affairs!
The Pepsi Challenge
27-Jun-06, 18:03
I still don't understand why there has been so many objections by the Pennyland residents. Since the scheme was built way back when, there has ALWAYS been plans to build upon the area as part of the local plan, whether it restricted view or not. Remember the plot of land between Scapa House and the petrol garage? It lay there empty for years, but if the council had erected a 300foot building right there, there would be nothing local residents could do about it. It's a case of that I've-been-here-a-30-years-and-I-a-ain't-a-movin'-now. But then I don't live there so fair dues.
I see the petition has now topped the 900 mark. I think that speaks for itself as far as what the people want. Lets hope ASDA can see for themselves the support they DO have and use it wisely.
I am no economist either.
ASDA is owned by the USA giant Walmart. Now can you please explain to me how money spent in an ASDA in Thurso is somehow staying in Caithness?
All right, ASDA might be a better supermarket than Somerfield but then Marks and Spencers is better than other shops in Thurso, does that mean we should also demand a Marks and Spencers for Caithness as well?
My observations on the saviours that have come to Wick, i.e. Homebase, New Look, Argos and Superdrug is that they are not very busy compared to the initial surge. Pretty quiet in fact. Homebase are pretty damned expensive and most of the staff on the tills seem pretty much devoid of character. It will be interesting to see how they all fare long-term, I can certainly say that they are not saving me any money.
Well the money would stay in caithness as local people would work there .
What shop did you go to in caithness that was so much cheaper than homebase for you to say it is expensive?
I shop in there a bit and the staff have been friendly and happy.
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 18:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorrie
All right, ASDA might be a better supermarket than Somerfield but then Marks and Spencers is better than other shops in Thurso, does that mean we should also demand a Marks and Spencers for Caithness as well?
.
How is Marks and Spencers Better? They are more expensive than most for products that are not that good. They aim to a market of people that think they are posh or are a bit posh who have too much money to spend. We need something that will bring prices down without a drop in quality. Somerfields are overpriced and very poor quality and dont have a good range of products. I hope that Asda and tesco put them to the wall.
What town's that, then? Noddyland?
as posted by The pepsi Challenge
A smart and witty reply , by a person that has never visited my local town to make smart remarks. I have lived in Caithness long enough and Orpington to know that there are indeed huge similarities. Ok Orpington is bigger but there is also more shops too which is to suit to the population.
To quote Noddyland without even knowing about the town is pure guess work.
You guessed wrong
Well the money would stay in caithness as local people would work there .
What shop did you go to in caithness that was so much cheaper than homebase for you to say it is expensive?
I shop in there a bit and the staff have been friendly and happy.
So you can guarantee that 100% of staff wages will stay in the county then?
This job thing has to be put into perspective. Many of the jobs will be in the construction side. How many will actually be permanent staff? How many will be from the county? How many other jobs will be lost long-term? What proportion of the money spent in ASDA would actually benefit the county in reality?
When you have the answers to those questions then you may have a point. As it is, you are merely quoting the age-old myth about huge retail outlets bringing loads of jobs and prosperity.
Can ANYONE actually cite an example where a supermarket giant has SOLELY been the cause of a revival in any city or town?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorrie
All right, ASDA might be a better supermarket than Somerfield but then Marks and Spencers is better than other shops in Thurso, does that mean we should also demand a Marks and Spencers for Caithness as well?
.
How is Marks and Spencers Better? They are more expensive than most for products that are not that good. They aim to a market of people that think they are posh or are a bit posh who have too much money to spend. We need something that will bring prices down without a drop in quality. Somerfields are overpriced and very poor quality and dont have a good range of products. I hope that Asda and tesco put them to the wall.
I think you have the wrong end of this. Otherwise you are trying to state that Thurso already has shops on a par with Markies.
My post states that Markies is better than other shops in Thurso. That is a statement in the present and not assuming that ASDA is in place. My point is that we can all look at stores which exist in the cities and wish that there were one on our own doorstep. That does not mean that we can realistically expect for them to come to a smaller, more remote, area.
So you can guarantee that 100% of staff wages will stay in the county then?
This job thing has to be put into perspective. Many of the jobs will be in the construction side. How many will actually be permanent staff? How many will be from the county? How many other jobs will be lost long-term? What proportion of the money spent in ASDA would actually benefit the county in reality?
When you have the answers to those questions then you may have a point. As it is, you are merely quoting the age-old myth about huge retail outlets bringing loads of jobs and prosperity.
Can ANYONE actually cite an example where a supermarket giant has SOLELY been the cause of a revival in any city or town?
Can YOU actually cite an example where a supermarket giant has SOLELY
Been the cause of a city or town's DEMISE.
Well the money would stay in caithness as local people would work there .
What shop did you go to in caithness that was so much cheaper than homebase for you to say it is expensive?
I shop in there a bit and the staff have been friendly and happy.
Sorry, forgot about the shopping part. I got paint in Macallans cheaper than the equivalent in Homebase. An electric sander I saw in Hombase was £5 cheaper in Argos down the road a jaunt and that was without looking around elsewhere.
Fillers and sealants that I bought from Lidls for 99p a tube were between £4.49 and £7.99 in Hombase for exactly the same size and same product.
I have used both Screwfix and B and Q extensively over the years and they are way cheaper than Homebase. For a company of their size I would have expected much more competitive pricing and it exposes the myth that bigger means cheaper.
Can YOU actually cite an example where a supermarket giant has SOLELY
Been the cause of a city or town's DEMISE.
That is the oldest and most unimaginative way of responding to a question you know you cannot answer. Answer the original question or move on from the arguement. Very poor post!!
Sorry, forgot about the shopping part. I got paint in Macallans cheaper than the equivalent in Homebase. An electric sander I saw in Hombase was £5 cheaper in Argos down the road a jaunt and that was without looking around elsewhere.
Fillers and sealants that I bought from Lidls for 99p a tube were between £4.49 and £7.99 in Hombase for exactly the same size and same product.
I have used both Screwfix and B and Q extensively over the years and they are way cheaper than Homebase. For a company of their size I would have expected much more competitive pricing and it exposes the myth that bigger means cheaper.
Well Homebase is owned by argos so price match would of been no problem .
You talk about keeping money in the town then say you shop at screwfix and B&Q extensively .
Think you need to think about your own morals before spouting about money being kept in the comunity.
I am sure many of us shop online and has still not managed to kill the local shops .
That is the oldest and most unimaginative way of responding to a question you know you cannot answer. Answer the original question or move on from the arguement. Very poor post!!
Very poor response from an unfriendly ASDA hater. Who has double standards when it comes to shopping local .
You cannot answer the return question so had to try and undermine the post with your poor post remark.
Well Homebase is owned by argos so price match would of been no problem .
You talk about keeping money in the town then say you shop at screwfix and B&Q extensively .
Think you need to think about your own morals before spouting about money being kept in the comunity.
I am sure many of us shop online and has still not managed to kill the local shops .
Err, the local shops do not sell EVERYTHING one needs. It is a simple fact that you have to resort to buying out of town sometimes. Please do not talk about my morals, you know nothing of me so please do not judge. This ends my discourse with you on this subject. I have no time for intellectual plankton ;o)
macleod_callum
27-Jun-06, 19:56
So you can guarantee that 100% of staff wages will stay in the county then?
I certainly can't guarantee you this and neither could anybody else. I could however guarantee that very little of the staff wages will be retained in Caithness, this is also true for any other wages paid by any other business, large supermarkets and small local run businesses inclusive. This comes down to the fact that people spend their wages. They spend their wages in supermarkets and local family run businesses that line their shelves with products bought in from outside the county and who fill their petrol pumps with foreign fuel. The money flows out of the county as the traders buy in their merchandise and will continue to flow out of the county unless all the produce that we spend our pay packets on is produced within the county. The only way to retain 100% of staff wages is for everyone to stash them under their mattresses (as banks don’t retain money either.) and that’s not just feasible is it??
Would the money spent in these supermarkets benifit the county - probably not, but does the money that is spent in local shops already benifit the county? - I would suggest not.
Originally Posted by Dali
Can YOU actually cite an example where a supermarket giant has SOLELY
Been the cause of a city or town's DEMISE
..Strawman Arguement..
Callum Macleod
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 19:59
So you can guarantee that 100% of staff wages will stay in the county then?
This job thing has to be put into perspective. Many of the jobs will be in the construction side. How many will actually be permanent staff? How many will be from the county? How many other jobs will be lost long-term? What proportion of the money spent in ASDA would actually benefit the county in reality?
When you have the answers to those questions then you may have a point. As it is, you are merely quoting the age-old myth about huge retail outlets bringing loads of jobs and prosperity.
Can ANYONE actually cite an example where a supermarket giant has SOLELY been the cause of a revival in any city or town?
Nobody can gaurantee that 100% of the wages will stay in the county but you cannot do that with any employment. But at least if your weekly grocery bill is less then you will have more cash left over to spend on other things. Such as entertainment, meals out, a night in the pub, new car etc.
The jobs created will not all be permanent that is obvious but it is jobs that are not here at the moment so it is a bonus. If the jobs are not given to locals then it will bring people into the area and give the population a boost. If other jobs are lost then they will probally be in somerfields and those people will be ideal to step into a job in tescos or asdas
If people are working then they are tax payers that reduces the tax burden on the rest of us as the will not be signing on every week.
Prosperity from shops. You just need to look at Inverness it is growing all the time and it is mostly shops so they cannot be that harmful. If people from the northern part of the highland travel to caithness instead of inverness to go shopping then that is bringing more money into the area. I know that we spend hundreds of pounds a year in tescos in Inverness at the moment. That money will be transfered to wick when tescos opens. If thurso doesnt get asdas then thurso will lose out on my spend. Mind you the butchers bakers and fish monger will be ok because I will continue to use them as they are true local businesses and no supermarket can better the quality.
It doesnt have to be the sole revival for the county but it will help. If it doesnt feel free to say I told you so.
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 20:04
I think you have the wrong end of this. Otherwise you are trying to state that Thurso already has shops on a par with Markies.
My post states that Markies is better than other shops in Thurso. That is a statement in the present and not assuming that ASDA is in place. My point is that we can all look at stores which exist in the cities and wish that there were one on our own doorstep. That does not mean that we can realistically expect for them to come to a smaller, more remote, area.
Why is markies better than the current shops in Thurso? It isnt in my opinion. I go to Inverness to get things at a better price or for a better range than is availlible locally. I do not go to markies because it does not offer me anything I want or need. It is only handy as a short cut through the eastgate centre
Mind you the butchers bakers and fish monger will be ok because I will continue to use them as they are true local businesses and no supermarket can better the quality.
It doesnt have to be the sole revival for the county but it will help. If it doesnt feel free to say I told you so.
It is this aspect that must be remembered when any supermarket moves in. The quality of their fresh produce, especially fish, is always considerably poorer. So, as well as reaping the benefits of the cheaper prices and greater diversity of choice.. also continue to support your local shops that provide what the supermarket cannot - personal service, fresh produce and a smile. :D
Err, the local shops do not sell EVERYTHING one needs. It is a simple fact that you have to resort to buying out of town sometimes. Please do not talk about my morals, you know nothing of me so please do not judge. This ends my discourse with you on this subject. I have no time for intellectual plankton ;o)
I know it makes you feel better to slag off or try and undermine at the end of your posts but it is just sad .
You should spend more time thinking about your posts they are the same tired old arguments.
I am only trying to point out how boring your repetative posts are becoming.
And i am sure the local shops could order most things in that you need easy to say you just could not get it local . Yawn so bored of you now you just cant see your double standards stop it now your just anoying the masses.
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 20:17
It is this aspect that must be remembered when any supermarket moves in. The quality of their fresh produce, especially fish, is always considerably poorer. So, as well as reaping the benefits of the cheaper prices and greater diversity of choice.. also continue to support your local shops that provide what the supermarket cannot - personal service, fresh produce and a smile. :D
You are darn tooting right there. I have bought fish from somerfields once. Dried out tastless excuse for a fish. Fish starts to spoil very quickly and is best eaten ASAP. Never again. Now you know when you go to the fishmongers for a nice bit of Halibut you have to go on a tuesday or wednesday as it usually sold out by thursday. It gets landed on tuesday and is for sale on tuesday, How long has a supermaket fish been sitting in cold stotrage before it gets home to your fridge? Well probally landed at Scrabster shipped down the line on a lorry to be processed and then packaged and distributed all the way back up the line to be on sale in Thurso a week or more later
However with the butchers the difference is opposite way round a good bit of beef needs to be hung for a while for it to be ready for the table. These supermarkets process the cattle from fields to shelf far to quickly for the meat to be ready. Tough in comparsion. Go try it buy a steak from somerfields the pop to any of the local butchers and buy one. Cook them side by side and spot the difference. In fact invite the manager of the supermarket to come home with you to see how what he is selling compares :D
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 20:19
Err, the local shops do not sell EVERYTHING one needs. It is a simple fact that you have to resort to buying out of town sometimes. Please do not talk about my morals, you know nothing of me so please do not judge. This ends my discourse with you on this subject. I have no time for intellectual plankton ;o)
In other word I am beaten on every point and have thrown the toys out of the pram ;)
I certainly can't guarantee you this and neither could anybody else. I could however guarantee that very little of the staff wages will be retained in Caithness, this is also true for any other wages paid by any other business, large supermarkets and small local run businesses inclusive. This comes down to the fact that people spend their wages. They spend their wages in supermarkets and local family run businesses that line their shelves with products bought in from outside the county and who fill their petrol pumps with foreign fuel. The money flows out of the county as the traders buy in their merchandise and will continue to flow out of the county unless all the produce that we spend our pay packets on is produced within the county. The only way to retain 100% of staff wages is for everyone to stash them under their mattresses (as banks don’t retain money either.) and that’s not just feasible is it??
Would the money spent in these supermarkets benifit the county - probably not, but does the money that is spent in local shops already benifit the county? - I would suggest not.
Originally Posted by Dali
Can YOU actually cite an example where a supermarket giant has SOLELY
Been the cause of a city or town's DEMISE
..Strawman Arguement..
Callum Macleod
Dingwall has suffered greatly since the advent of Tesco there....some shops have shut down as Tesco is a "One Stop Shop". On the other hand, I really want Tesco and ASDA asap.:eek:
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 20:33
Dingwall I think suffered badly because it is too close to Inverness. If you needed a few bits n peices you would go locally and get them. A big monthly payday shop would take you to Inverness to tescos. Now they have a tescos on the doorstep they use it all the time. We however are remote enough that folk from caithness, sutherland and possibally even orkney would come over and shop at our new shops.
Gogglebox
27-Jun-06, 20:48
Now that our three wise Thurso monkeys,
Heard Nowt Mackay , Seen Nowt Saxon and Did Nowt Jackson of the ""Wazinitferme" party have decreed that we dont need competitive prices, and choice and that we do not obviously deserve the other shops that usually move to towns that these supermarkets attract with them, do you think we can find a way to have the three of them removed, shamed into resign etc before the next council elections as we would be better off with nobody representing us than these three clowns. Least theY could do no more damage
Or could we force a council by election and get an orger in to represent the masses
Enjoy your gardening next summer!!
In Big Brother Parlance
Jackson , Saxon and Mackay You have been evicted!
Im not implying anything below just a purely fictional bedtime story
Once upon A Time in a land about 21 miles away a store was being built,Lets call the imaginary store Toss Co. Toss Co had a dream it wanted to capture the entire catchment area that we live in to give away all their goods so persuaded those who had influence never to let any other stores come into the area to make sure that their dream came true and they did and the people who had influence were rewarded with lots of nice pretty things for their good deed to Toss Co and they all lived happy ever after
Till the next Council election when Toss Cos 'influence friends' were not so poular with the people who gave him his job and he had to find new friends to be 'influenceing friends' but the new friends had read the org and had brought their pet scruples with them and scruples decided that the everyone should have a fair shot at everything not just Toss Co but dadSda etc
AND THEN EVERYONE LIVED FAIRLY AND HAPPILY EVER AFTER in a county which represented what the people wanted and not just 3 out of touch old men who have shot themselves in the foot!
aS I SAY JUST A FAIRY TAIL NONE OF IT TRUE - - -PURELY FICTION ok!
Goodnight Children
Mr P Cannop
27-Jun-06, 20:56
T.Jackson & R.Saxon showed their faces at the Thurso C C Meeting tonight i left the meeting at that point and am not going to the Thurso CC Meetings any more
Great story Gogglebox lol thanx for the laugh i needed it lol
T.Jackson & R.Saxon showed their faces at the Thurso C C Meeting tonight i left the meeting at that point and am not going to the Thurso CC Meetings any more
Why didn't you get wired into them, I wooda!!
Gogglebox
27-Jun-06, 21:04
Do you think Toms brother phoned from Neverland and thanked him for making him the now only second most disliked Jackson it the Thurso area!!
Has anyone heard any good reasons as to why 2 of our lowly esteemed, duly elected muppets didnt bother to show up for such an important vote as this? Something good on the telly? Broken metatarcel? Fell asleep? Shopping in Inverness? Surely these missing votes are just as big a sin as the 4/5 sins that have already been caste. At least those 4 cretins had the courage to stand up and prove to there public they dont care what we think. Roll on election time, im sure there names will be remembered well at the polling stations. I for 1 never bother with the council elections but i sure will be making an effort come next year.
Mr P Cannop
27-Jun-06, 21:13
Why didn't you get wired into them, I wooda!!
what do you mean ??
I think you have the wrong end of this. Otherwise you are trying to state that Thurso already has shops on a par with Markies.
My post states that Markies is better than other shops in Thurso. That is a statement in the present and not assuming that ASDA is in place. My point is that we can all look at stores which exist in the cities and wish that there were one on our own doorstep. That does not mean that we can realistically expect for them to come to a smaller, more remote, area.
Point is however we had a realistic chance of having this store and FOUR auld decrepit councillors blew it, i am begining to question their motives.
Mr P Cannop
27-Jun-06, 21:23
4 voted for and 4 voted not for it and 2 people was not at the meeting
what do you mean ??
Why didn't you ask them to explain themselves or at least direct them to the org so we could give them the third degree?
Mr P Cannop
27-Jun-06, 21:33
i was asking T Jackson today am he said he was not saying anything till after the review
crashbandicoot1979
27-Jun-06, 21:37
I've always admitted that I am not keen on the idea of an ASDA, however I am stunned by the councillors' decision as it is more than clear that the majority of people want the store to go ahead and the councillors are there to reflect the views of the people. In all honesty I think Thurso will end up with a large supermarket at some point in the near future, be it ASDA or another or be it at Pennyland or elsewhere. And despite the fact that I don't particulary like the idea, I will hold my hands up as a hypocrite and admit that I will more than likely shop there when it arrives [lol] although I still intend to buy certain things locally, as I feel the quality will be better (fish, meat etc)
Thurso is growing at an astounding rate, and I believe there will be a need for a further supermarket in order to cope. As the town increases, I predict that the town centre will stay alive, because lets face it we are all different and some people will prefer to shop for everything in ASDA, others might prefer to buy fresh produce locally. However, hands up everyone who lives in Caithness but is registered with a dentist OUTWITH Caithness? A few of us, yes? We lack dentists in this town. We do not have a massive amount of doctors. We only have three schools (not sure how high the pupil count is but I think we can assume that they couldn't cope with a massive increase in pupils). We have a town centre that cannot cope with the traffic that flows through it. My point is that we have other things to worry about in Thurso that are far more important than an ASDA store. The town needs to be able to cope with the looming population increase that is predicted over the next decade or so, and as it stands I don't think it can, with or without an ASDA.
I appreciate why everyone is so mad about this, and I can appreciate all the points in favour of ASDA. But let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. We live in one of the most amazing places in Britain. We have fresh sea air, loads of countryside, and a low crime rate. Yes, maybe we are being penalised because we lack a competitive supermarket, but we are so lucky in other ways. I know you all realise this (that's no doubt why you live here) but I felt it needed pointed out.
And all you bargain shoppers should look on the bright side - isn't a Tesco in Wick better than nothing??? :roll:
SandTiger
27-Jun-06, 21:42
Why didn't you ask them to explain themselves or at least direct them to the org so we could give them the third degree?
Well at least one Councillor is a aware of the petition since we had an email threatening "further action" if an apparent bogus entry wasn't removed that was made under his name, albeit misspelled - most amusing, as he would not have got very far, had it been left but a polite request would have looked far better then the issuing of hollow threats. :roll:
i was asking T Jackson today am he said he was not saying anything till after the review
or did he mean until they could think of a good excuse so as to lessen their public unpopularity.
Anyway glad to hear you at least qiuzed him.:Razz
Mr P Cannop
27-Jun-06, 21:51
4 voted for and 4 voted not for it and 2 people was not at the meeting
whats your views on this ??
Naefearjustbeer
27-Jun-06, 21:54
Well at least one Councillor is a aware of the petition since we had an email threatening "further action" if an apparent bogus entry wasn't removed that was made under his name, albeit misspelled - most amusing, as he would not have got very far had it been left but a polite request would have looked far better then the issuing of hollow threats. :roll:
Sounds like a nice chap!! I didn't think threatening was a quality for a councillor. But then again I mistakenly thought they were supposed to represent the people that voted them in.
SandTiger
27-Jun-06, 22:03
Sounds like a nice chap!! I didn't think threatening was a quality for a councillor. But then again I mistakenly thought they were supposed to represent the people that voted them in.
Being able to spell would also be an asset when issuing threats...
xxxxx,
I understand that my mis-spelled name appears, along with three other councillors who have not signed it, on your petition regarding the Asda planning application.
This is unacceptable. Please have it corrected before I have to take further action.
May I suggest that you consider a petition urging Asda to apply for a more appropriate site in Thurso. I would be happy to sign such a petition!
Councillor xxxxxx x xxxxx
:lol:
OK…..deep breath….I am going to stick my neck out here in the full expectation of being crucified!! I am one of the residents of the area edging onto the proposed ASDA site who objected to the outline proposal. My objection was not one of loss of view, I am perfectly aware that this not a relevant reason. My objection was that the proposal came shortly on the back of an extensive public consultation with the local council to formulate the current local plan. In this plan the area between Ormlie and the Business Park (BT & Battery Factory) was given over for housing and a 9 hectare area was designated for business purposes – both these areas would be linked by the new Western Distributor Road which would give far better access from both Ormlie, Heathfield, Gills, Burnside and the bulk of the rear end of Pennyland – this was done with the understanding that the remaining two fields to the south of the A836 would be used for a 1.2 hectare hotel and public amenity land. You can see the local plan on:
http://cgi.www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/devplans/caith/adopted/thurso.pdf (http://cgi.www.highland.gov.uk/plintra/devplans/caith/adopted/thurso.pdf)
in particular para 35 and the map on page 65. The 9 hectare business land is only a 1 minute drive from the proposed site and remains available for development. To change the local plan the Councillors had to be satisfied that the rigorous Government Planning Criteria had been met (see paragraph 45 of http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/1998/10/nppg8 (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/1998/10/nppg8)
If all of the 11 criteria could not be met then the Council would have to refuse the plan being contrary to the local plan.
The majority of the residents (and I must add the “no” voting councillors) are not against ASDA coming to Thurso, quite the contrary. Quite a number of us feel that the area designated for business development already (which is at least double the size of the proposed area) would have a far greater accessibility and as the road infrastructure would be in place to cope with a store of this size it would negate the requirement for yet another roundabout at the Scrabster junction. At the meeting yesterday we requested that ASDA and the councillors should consider this area of land.
I completely understand everyone’s anger, if this makes me a NIMBY then so be it. Please take time out to read the local plan and look at the alternatives – there is a lot of history to the fight to retain this area. I am now off to put on my flack jacket and steel helmet before the replies start…………please be gentle!!
This is so strange. I have spoken to one or two people who have opposed the Asda store. They have spouted the same nonsense as you have. Is this a coincidence or has someone (with a few bob and a good solicitor) put you all up to the same story?
Remember, this is only for OUTLINE planning permission.
I know it ain't totally your fault, but thank you very much for your part for keeping Thurso in the dark ages.
Asda won't be back.
We can look forward to the rank rotten Co-op and Somerfield for good.
The Loafer
souperman
27-Jun-06, 22:35
Personally I think Asda are fully prepared for this decision, during the open day at the Pentland Hotel several weeks ago I was told by the Asda representative that he hoped the store would be open within 2 years, he was allowing about 18 months to obtain planning permission and another 6 to complete construction of the store etc etc, don`t panic, Asda will be built, I`m certain of it.
I am still very suspicious of this double vote by the chairman but can't find any single opinion via Google on how casting votes should be used. The English and Scottish Parliaments only use a casting vote as a single vote where there is a tie, so whoever has this vote cannot vote previously. There are various examples of casting votes being misused and then queried. It does not seem that it can just be used in this cavalier manner. Does anyone know exactly what the rule is for our council committees? Was this vote legal?
engiebenjy
28-Jun-06, 00:02
Personally, I don't see what all the nonsense about green belt site is all about. I would see the point if we lived in a big city with limited green and open spaces, but I hardly think that this is the problem here ?? we would just have to go half a mile along the road to be in the wide open spaces again.
How long are we going to be ripped off? If in the event ASDA doesn't get the go ahead, I will be making the weekly trip to Wick to Tescos. Even with the cost of petrol, it will still be cheaper (and i'll fill up with petrol there).
I have two young kids, and Mackays is great as long as you don't want cheap harwearing clothes for them to go out and play in. Every time I go to Inverness, the kids get kitted out in Tescos clothes. I only go to Makcays if I need something urgently, and grudge the money at that because I know that it wont last long.
coppertop 1958
28-Jun-06, 06:09
councillors out Asda in what more can any one say ASDA Price - Permanently Low Prices Forever
This is so strange. I have spoken to one or two people who have opposed the Asda store. They have spouted the same nonsense as you have. Is this a coincidence or has someone (with a few bob and a good solicitor) put you all up to the same story?
Remember, this is only for OUTLINE planning permission.
I know it ain't totally your fault, but thank you very much for your part for keeping Thurso in the dark ages.
Asda won't be back.
We can look forward to the rank rotten Co-op and Somerfield for good.
The Loafer
The facts are there in black and white – look at the local plan, look at the Council Proposal and look at the NGGP8. No coincidence, no solicitor, no nonsense just readily available facts.Of course we were aware this was for outline planning permission but ON THIS SITE ONLY. I question why Tullochs and the Bay Trading Co only gave ASDA the options of The Mart, Sir Archibald Road, The Coop, the caravan site and the Pennyland Field……………..why not the massive 9ha business site they had already secured approval for business development a stones throw away? At the ASDA open day at the Pentland Hotel, ASDA officials WERE UNAWARE that this site was available, never mind already approved for large business development, new housing estate and major road infrastructure. Bay Trading want to site a large multi-storey hotel along the Victoria Walk, this has been their plan for over 5 years which was previously rejected with no public outcry – with ASDA in situ at Pennyland Farm there is no way the Council could reject having previously disregarded the Local Plan and the Government’s NPPG8. It’s quite clear Bay Trading/Tulloch’s intention is to develop the whole area, sell up and move on.
webmannie
28-Jun-06, 07:40
Thanks Moby,
There is no way I would want the strip of land along victoria walk constructed on, it is far too valuable as an open space!
Can you answer: If ASDA were to build at the business park, would they be expected to pay for the so called 'western distributor road'?
As an exile "Tea in a Bowla" I am sorry I cannot sign your successful petition.
Can I suggest another campaign tactic i.e., all the councilors will have their own e-mail addresses at the Highland Council Headquarters, so why not flood their e-mail boxes with a deluge of protests. I do not mean hurl insults at them, but set up a template on CCWS and everyone sign an individual copy and e-mail the said letter to the dissidant councilors. Its just a thought and it should get their attention.
Thanks Moby,
There is no way I would want the strip of land along victoria walk constructed on, it is far too valuable as an open space!
Can you answer: If ASDA were to build at the business park, would they be expected to pay for the so called 'western distributor road'?
If ASDA were to reapply for their outline planning at this site the decisions regarding the Western Distributor Road would be appended in this as part of their proposal brought to the Council Planning Meeting -Para 45 of the NPPG8 states "7. address at the developer's expense the consequences to the trunk and local road networks of the generated and redistributed traffic resulting from the development proposal." As the plans for this Road are already in place I am unsure as to responsibility of ASDA to this.
If ASDA were given the option of this site and put their outline plans to the Council accordingly I doubt the same decision would have been reached yesterday, certainly many local residents who objected on the grounds of being contrary to local plan would have welcomed the proposal.
If ASDA were to reapply for their outline planning at this site the decisions regarding the Western Distributor Road would be appended in this as part of their proposal brought to the Council Planning Meeting -Para 45 of the NPPG8 states "7. address at the developer's expense the consequences to the trunk and local road networks of the generated and redistributed traffic resulting from the development proposal." As the plans for this Road are already in place I am unsure as to responsibility of ASDA to this.
If ASDA were given the option of this site and put their outline plans to the Council accordingly I doubt the same decision would have been reached yesterday, certainly many local residents who objected on the grounds of being contrary to local plan would have welcomed the proposal.That's funny. I don't believe for one second that local residents objected "on the grounds of being contrary to local plan" - they surely objected because they didn't want ASDA in their back yards. I don't blame them for that, and objection to the "local plan" was a brilliant wheeze, but it's hardly the primary reason. If it was, then significant numbers of people in other parts of Thurso would have objected too. Most of us are NIMBYs to some extent, but perhaps they/you/we should at least admit it!
Btw having a big new supermarket "in your back yard" isn't always a bad thing, and it doesn't necessarily have an adverse effect on property prices. I've "been there, experienced that" - a large Safeway is (or was) a wonderful corner shop, and it can actually be used as a selling point! No, I wouldn't have believed it either, but it worked for us and some of our former neighbours in the late 90s. Perhaps it wouldn't work if it destroyed the view of Orkney from your living room though...
On a more serious note, there seems to have been a series of communication breakdowns here - between councillors and the people they are supposed to represent, between ASDA and whoever should have been promulgating the local plan, and perhaps between the Thurso councillors and their own planning people. Whatever happened, the Thurso councillors have not done well out of this, and I am afraid they are now reaping the consequences, in the short term at least.
I read the aforementioned local plan and it's not obvious to me why the site near the business park would be significantly better for ASDA. It's clear that it wouldn't spoil the sea views of those living at the bottom of the Pennyland estate, but it's further out of town and it seems to rely on new roads and perhaps other not-yet-existent infrastructure for any possible advantages. Or am I missing something?
Various people have asked why a multinational like ASDA would lead to more money being kept in Caithness. This isn't a silly question and I must admit that it's hard to give a quantitative answer because many of the effects are not primary ones. However, if people are buying more food, drink, clothes, TVs, DVD players etc, in Thurso (as opposed to Inverness or on the Web) then I would assume that ASDA would lead to more net employment in Thurso (than if it wasn't there). One might also hope that ASDA salaries are higher than in local shops - I'm sure someone can either confirm this or disabuse me of the notion - and much of this money will be spent locally. Also, if local people spend more time in Thurso (as opposed to Inverness) at weekends, then they will spend more money in local restaurants and other local shops. The whole argument replies on a bootstrap effect to some extent, but the alternative extreme case of no shops in Thurso at all is clearly worse! There will clearly be knock-on effects on other local businesses, but it seems that a lot of local people aren't overly worried that some old businesses will go to the wall.
But economics isn't the only issue here. People want ASDA because it's a better supermarket than Somerfield or the Co-op. They want the convenience of being able to buy half-decent cheap clothes and electrical goods locally. This makes them happier. Some may scoff at people being brainwashed by the consumer society into thinking they want things that they don't need, but it takes all sorts... I don't believe for one minute that most of the residents of Thurso think that ASDA will be a panacea that solves all of the town's economic and social problems - they ain't that stupid and people who suggest this do their fellow Caithnessians a disservice.
Finally, I'm well aware that ASDA is a subsidiary of Wal Mart, and that the latter doesn't have the world's best reputation as an employer, and also that it has a reputation for creating "ghost towns" in the US. Anyone who thinks ASDA is a panacea might do well to think about all that. But, on balance, I would support ASDA in Thurso whether at Pennyland Farm or elsewhere.
This thread is popular - I've just looked looked at what "currently active users" are doing, and almost 25% of them are viewing this thread!
concerned resident
28-Jun-06, 11:02
Suggestion: as an alternative location for ASDA
Why not put it on a green field site at Thurso East, as nobody could object
As they have already set a president, when they sited the new water treatment works at Thurso East on a green field site.
Naefearjustbeer
28-Jun-06, 11:34
We will wait and see if the place smells as bad as the Wick treatment plant before anyone would want to build anything over that way.
In other word I am beaten on every point and have thrown the toys out of the pram ;)
I think you must be getting paranoid. My reply was to Dali or Sheldon.J.Plankton (their avatar) and not youself.
Mr P Cannop
28-Jun-06, 12:06
the Caithness planning committee aproved the tesco in wick so why not ASDA !!!! ????? !!!!!
Naefearjustbeer
28-Jun-06, 15:58
I think you must be getting paranoid. My reply was to Dali or Sheldon.J.Plankton (their avatar) and not youself.
Nah I am not paraniod I did realise that it wasnt aimed at me but I thought i would stir a bit. Me Bad :evil
the Caithness planning committee aproved the tesco in wick so why not ASDA !!!! ????? !!!!!
That is not the mindset of planners and those that scrutinise plans.
The facts are there in black and white – look at the local plan, look at the Council Proposal and look at the NGGP8. No coincidence, no solicitor, no nonsense just readily available facts.Of course we were aware this was for outline planning permission but ON THIS SITE ONLY. I question why Tullochs and the Bay Trading Co only gave ASDA the options of The Mart, Sir Archibald Road, The Coop, the caravan site and the Pennyland Field……………..why not the massive 9ha business site they had already secured approval for business development a stones throw away? At the ASDA open day at the Pentland Hotel, ASDA officials WERE UNAWARE that this site was available, never mind already approved for large business development, new housing estate and major road infrastructure. Bay Trading want to site a large multi-storey hotel along the Victoria Walk, this has been their plan for over 5 years which was previously rejected with no public outcry – with ASDA in situ at Pennyland Farm there is no way the Council could reject having previously disregarded the Local Plan and the Government’s NPPG8. It’s quite clear Bay Trading/Tulloch’s intention is to develop the whole area, sell up and move on.
Don't you objector's realise how much the value of your house will SOAR if the Asda store is built? Your views will hardly change, maybe improve from the wasteland it is at the moment. Yes, wasteland, not this "greenbelt" that makes me laugh so much. It's only a wee field. And don't give me this "Where did this hotel come from" ditty. What's wrong with getting a DECENT hotel in our town. It would improve that corner of the wasteland nicely. If Asda could build a store in my back yard (unfortunately it is a wee bit small) I would be screaming at them to get it built!
We need what everyone else has in Britain. Choice. Indeed we have the RIGHT to it. We pay our taxes like everyone else, so we should get the benefits like everyone else. I keep hearing how it will affect the local traders. Believe me, if a shop is decent, with decent staff and opening hours, it WILL survive. What Asda might do is close down the shops that DESERVE shutting down. Some of the shops in this town are a down right digrace and I for one would laugh, yes laugh, as they pulled their shutters down for the last time. Why should I pay more for my shopping just to keep some of our esteemed local businessmen and women in their fancy cars and houses????? How many of them buy their cars locally?? Next to ZILCH. There are no Jaguar and Porche dealers up here, are there?! They don't buy their Escorts and Fiestas on 0% interest over 4 years, do they? All paid up in full with OUR hard earned cash.
The narrow-minded councillors need a good shake and get this sorted.
I hope Alistair Macdonald gets his way with his plan. He hasn't done much else for the county!
The Loafer
As an exile "Tea in a Bowla" I am sorry I cannot sign your successful petition.
Can I suggest another campaign tactic i.e., all the councilors will have their own e-mail addresses at the Highland Council Headquarters, so why not flood their e-mail boxes with a deluge of protests. I do not mean hurl insults at them, but set up a template on CCWS and everyone sign an individual copy and e-mail the said letter to the dissidant councilors. Its just a thought and it should get their attention.
The ones you want are -
roger.saxon.cllr@highland.gov.uk
tom.jackson.cllr@highland.gov.uk
donald.mackay.cllr@highland.gov.uk
graeme.smith.cllr@highland.gov.uk
Gogglebox
28-Jun-06, 22:41
How about an email template something like this
Please feel free to add or change it altogether
Councillor
Please could you explain to the people of Caithness and particularly the community of Thurso why your concsious and political convictions forced you to vote against the outline planning permission for ASDA
Many planning applications have gone out with the local plan and been accepted by and voted for by you, so it is more than a little confusing as to why you felt the compulsion to stand up for the local plan and be counted against on this particular application
You will gather from the public outcry that your vote was not representative of your electorate and wonder if you now feel that your wards democratic rights have been violated and if you will stand by your decision to vote against any further appeal application by ASDA or resign and let someone democratically represent the people of your ward
Regards
A concerned voter
mickey101
28-Jun-06, 23:11
Hi
As the numbers on the petition page climb towards the 2000 mark in 48 hours of being on line. I am wondering how many of our estimeed coucillors are realising how big a screw up they have just made by completely misjuging the mood of the town. If anyone stands against them in the next election their cushy little number will be up. Frankly I would rather vote for Kermit the frog than our local councillor at least we know he is a puppet. Perhaps if they havent yet got the message how thoroughly P***ed off this town is at them maybe we should start a new petition - one of "No Confidence" in our local councillors in Thurso. Maybe then they will get the message they were elected to represent the interests of their constitents not to follow their own agenda.
M
Scorrie, it's not a matter of the number of supermarkets. ASDA is far better than Somerfield. In fact, Somerfield is the worst of all the supermarkets imho. Well, perhaps the Co-op is worse, but it's a close-run thing. :D
, where would you propose to site a new ASDA in Thurso?
how about where somerfields in Thurso is just now!!!!!there are many places around thurso. Off the Castletown road near Thurso would be a good site or near to where BT is based, though that is a bit out of town
Hi
As the numbers on the petition page climb towards the 2000 mark in 48 hours of being on line. I am wondering how many of our estimeed coucillors are realising how big a screw up they have just made by completely misjuging the mood of the town. If anyone stands against them in the next election their cushy little number will be up. Frankly I would rather vote for Kermit the frog than our local councillor at least we know he is a puppet. Perhaps if they havent yet got the message how thoroughly P***ed off this town is at them maybe we should start a new petition - one of "No Confidence" in our local councillors in Thurso. Maybe then they will get the message they were elected to represent the interests of their constitents not to follow their own agenda.
M
Misjudging or simply ignoring, every body i have spoken to thought that Asda was a done deal and were looking forward to its arrival so unless these councillors are walking around with headfones on and blinkers then they must have known the publics views or aren't they paying attention.
Has anybody else arrived at the conclusion that the people from Ormlie are being just a little hypocritical in their objections to ASDA.
They bemoan the fact that a new ASDA will blight their pretty view of the sea much to their distress and irritation. They complain loudly it will infringe on their cosy little world and would cause them upset.
How different their attitudes are to what they were only months ago,
Are these not the same people who wanted to gain benefit for themselves by dumping massive wind-powered turbines on the doorstep of another nearby Community.
Are these not the same people who, when that Community complained that they would be an eyesore, would blight their view and would cause them distress and irritation gave that Community certain advice?
Wasn’t that advice that if they didn’t agree to it then “tough”.
As far as they were concerned that Community’s views did not matter because that was where they intended to put their wind-powered turbines and that was an end of the matter so and they would just have to get used to it!
What a different attitude they take when they are faced with a similar thing.
The main difference, as far as I can see, is that ASDA is meant to benefit the whole of Caithness and not just one small self-centred Community.
webmannie
29-Jun-06, 07:27
the people from Ormlie
Most of the people that objected are from the ATOMICS (Pennyland estate) not ORMLIE, not sure where the boundary between the two so-called estates is, in my mind it is down the boundary wall of Naver Field.
Gogglebox
29-Jun-06, 09:09
Has anybody else arrived at the conclusion that the people from Ormlie are being just a little hypocritical in their objections to ASDA.
They bemoan the fact that a new ASDA will blight their pretty view of the sea much to their distress and irritation. They complain loudly it will infringe on their cosy little world and would cause them upset.
How different their attitudes are to what they were only months ago,
Are these not the same people who wanted to gain benefit for themselves by dumping massive wind-powered turbines on the doorstep of another nearby Community.
Are these not the same people who, when that Community complained that they would be an eyesore, would blight their view and would cause them distress and irritation gave that Community certain advice?
Wasn’t that advice that if they didn’t agree to it then “tough”.
As far as they were concerned that Community’s views did not matter because that was where they intended to put their wind-powered turbines and that was an end of the matter so and they would just have to get used to it!
What a different attitude they take when they are faced with a similar thing.
The main difference, as far as I can see, is that ASDA is meant to benefit the whole of Caithness and not just one small self-centred Community.
To be honest most of Ormlie didnt want windfarms either just the Ormlie Committee looking at ways of raising revenue.
I would imagine it would not even be in our view at Ormlie as its over the other side of the hill.
i do think you mean the Pennyland area and even then i think its being blown out of proportion by the residents. Can nothing ever be built in front of the Pennyland estate ? Must this view be preserved forever and ever
Will they be able to block everything from now on that they can see from their window?
To be honest most of Ormlie didnt want windfarms either just the Ormlie Committee looking at ways of raising revenue.
I would imagine it would not even be in our view at Ormlie as its over the other side of the hill.
i do think you mean the Pennyland area and even then i think its being blown out of proportion by the residents. Can nothing ever be built in front of the Pennyland estate ? Must this view be preserved forever and ever
Will they be able to block everything from now on that they can see from their window?
... but the "Ormlie Committee" represent the Ormlie community and the letter sent to the community in question gave the impression that it was on behalf of the Ormlie Community. Was there a referendum in Ormlie for or against the said Windfarm? If so did this show that "most of Ormlie didn't want the Windfarm either"? Or are you just surmising that the Ormlie Community didn't want it?
All I saw was people (ex Councillor included) saying that the Windfarm would go ahead no matter what - nothing saying that anyone in Ormlie was against it!
Mr P Cannop
29-Jun-06, 11:15
The hearing started with a site visit. Asda produced a photo-montage
which was indicative of what could be on site. The application was for
outline permission only so the photo-montage really was not part of the
deliberations. Unfortunately many of the residents present at the site
visit took exception to what was shown and questions of detail were
being thrown into things. I tried to steer things away from this,
emphasising that the application was for outline permission on the site
only. In a way this set the scene for the rest of the meeting.
At the hearing the applicant put their case, unfortunately starting by
admitting that they had "landed on this site". On questioning by Tom
Jackson it became clear that the retail impact assessment figures their
consultant had used were indicative only for that type of store (e.g.
the Alldays figures were for a generic (Scottish) Alldays store rather
than the actual figures for the Castlegreen road one): this seriously
undermined the validity of the Retail Impact Assessment.
The third parties (objectors) emphasised the Local plan status of the
site and went into detail on the past planning history. They mentioned
the previous roles of public enquiries and the reporters' conclusions at
the Local Plan Public Inquiry. Reference was made to Thurso Policy 21
and Policy 35. They also pointed out the planning officers own
conclusion that "The proposed development is on an area of Thurso
allocated for amenity purposes and as such is viewed as contrary to the
local plan. NPPG8 states that where proposals are not consistent with
the Local Plan they should be assessed against all the considerations
set out under para 45 of the guidance and refused if it does not meet
them all." The planning officers indicated that they thought these
conditions met. The objectors specifically challenged this (as did I,
later in the meeting). The planning officers gave no supporting evidence
to show how the considerations were met although they had two
opportunies.
After the hearing the officials put their recommendation to the members.
The three Thurso based councillors were all clearly against this
development on this site, for a variety of reasons (some on planning
grounds, some possibly on sentiment). Councillor Saxon, in particular,
went into considerable detail and questioned the rigour with which the
sequential assessment of other possible sites had been conducted. Other
councillors took a pragmatic supportive view based on wider economic
development considerations for Caithness. My vote was determined purely
on the planning considerations and the provisions within the local plan
as they related to this site. Clearly the objectors had a right to
expect that the plan would be adhered to unless material considerations
indicated that departure was appropriate. In my view there was
insufficient evidence to support such departure. My officials had
thought otherwise but did not present supporting evidence when invited
to so do.
I determined my voting choice in the last 5 minutes of the meeting,
based purely on the information presented to the committee. I was rather
surprised at the poor quality of the application having earlier fully
expected approval by a significant margin. On the day I could not say
that any case for development on this site had been made, other than
perhaps to indicate it was a last resort that had been landed on. This
makes for unsatisfactory planning and I could not support the
development.
As I was required to use my casting vote I chose, whilst respecting the
advice of the officials, to stick to the Local Plan, to agree with all
three of the councillors who are local to Thurso and to refuse the
application.
I would add that the several hate e-mails I have received suggesting
that I have had huge personal financial gain courtesy if Tesco are quite
unfounded. Any future application by any developer will again be
considered by me on planning grounds alone. It is quite possible that
this applicant may produce a good quality application for another
specific site that can be supported on planning considerations
I assume the previous post contains words from Graeme Smith.
It includes the sentence:
As I was required to use my casting vote I chose, whilst respecting the advice of the officials, to stick to the Local Plan, to agree with all three of the councillors who are local to Thurso and to refuse the application.Local Plans can be changed to adapt to changing circumstances - it happens, and I've seen it happen. Imho the final phrase tells it all.
Could someone please explain why the alternative site near the business park is supposed to be better than the field at Pennyland Farm?
Finally...
Please don't send hate mail, or anything that could be construed as such, to the councillors involved. It's not very nice and it doesn't help anyone.
crashbandicoot1979
29-Jun-06, 13:06
Refusing the planning permission for ASDA may be seen as a bad move but it has not ruined the county. This county has a lot more going for it than a big superstore.
As for hate mail, it isn't even remotely constructive. Everyone should contact the councillors demanding an explanation, which, along with the petition, is a positive action that makes the feelings of the majority very clear. Hate mail is pointless and I fail to see how it could make the sender feel even remotely better.
I think that some Org members need to cool their jets. Posting allegations of alleged financial impropriety could just find the person accused taking legal action.
While you are obviously displeased with this decision it is not worth possibly dropping Caithness.Org in the courts defending what is posted in their forums.
I wonder if the closure of some of the counties medical facilities would bring about such a hue and cry........
I think that some Org members need to cool their jets. Posting allegations of alleged financial impropriety could just find the person accused taking legal action.
While you are obviously displeased with this decision it is not worth possibly dropping Caithness.Org in the courts defending what is posted in their forums.
I wonder if the closure of some of the counties medical facilities would bring about such a hue and cry........
Hear, Hear
I think that some Org members need to cool their jets. Posting allegations of alleged financial impropriety could just find the person accused taking legal action.
While you are obviously displeased with this decision it is not worth possibly dropping Caithness.Org in the courts defending what is posted in their forums.
I wonder if the closure of some of the counties medical facilities would bring about such a hue and cry........
Hear Hear Madpict, complain, but keep within the letter of the law
Refusing the planning permission for ASDA may be seen as a bad move but it has not ruined the county. This county has a lot more going for it than a big superstore.
As for hate mail, it isn't even remotely constructive. Everyone should contact the councillors demanding an explanation, which, along with the petition, is a positive action that makes the feelings of the majority very clear. Hate mail is pointless and I fail to see how it could make the sender feel even remotely better. I wouldn't worry about hurting their feelings too much crashbandicoot they are inflicting a lot more on the public than having to read hate mail, waken up, we are paying £6 above national average for council tax yet we have poor roads , no dentists, higher fuel costs, poor services that are about to get worse due to cutbacks, a very limited selection of amenities with overpriced goods and any thing other than minor ailments has to be taken care of in Inverness...I could go on and on all day about the mess these councillors have the county in ...and you are worried about their feelings. Yeah right, do you live in the pennyland area by any chance?
Gogglebox
29-Jun-06, 13:53
... but the "Ormlie Committee" represent the Ormlie community and the letter sent to the community in question gave the impression that it was on behalf of the Ormlie Community. Was there a referendum in Ormlie for or against the said Windfarm? If so did this show that "most of Ormlie didn't want the Windfarm either"? Or are you just surmising that the Ormlie Community didn't want it?
All I saw was people (ex Councillor included) saying that the Windfarm would go ahead no matter what - nothing saying that anyone in Ormlie was against it!
Well actually now you say it nobody ever did actually ask us what we wanted regarding wind farms etc
But then again nobody asked us if we wanted to have the Ormlie Community Association in the first place - -although to be fair it has done some good, but not all they have done is good
And yes i am surmising from what you could call a "straw poll" of people i have spoken to about it in the area that it would not be very welcome.
Maybe not the most accurate of opinion canvassing but it certainly was indictitive to me
I certainly dont recall any letter advising me of it just read that the
ex-councillor with the bad "irish" said it was coming whatever
However back to ASDA, it would be impractical to arrange a vote for everything and we obviously do have to hope that our elected representatives represnt our opinions.
THis time they have just got it BADLY wrong
Maybe this ridiculous decision will do some good and people will get off their backsides and vote next election day and mean that these people who become councillors are representative of the majority and not just the 10% or so of the community that vote
I wouldn't worry about hurting their feelings too much crashbandicoot they are inflicting a lot more on the public than having to read hate mail, waken up, we are paying £6 above national average for council tax yet we have poor roads , no dentists, higher fuel costs, poor services that are about to get worse due to cutbacks, a very limited selection of amenities with overpriced goods and any thing other than minor ailments has to be taken care of in Inverness...I could go on and on all day about the mess these councillors have the county in ...and you are worried about their feelings. Yeah right, do you live in the pennyland area by any chance?
Somehow I don't think the councilors are responsible for all that is wrong with this county. The public at large are responsible as well; maybe even more so! We each have our role to play as good citizens and part of that is standing up and being counted even if that means standing as a councilor!
We each have our role to play as good citizens and part of that is standing up and being counted even if that means standing as a councilor!
Ann do you not mean standing ON a councilor [lol]
Somehow I don't think the councilors are responsible for all that is wrong with this county. The public at large are responsible as well; maybe even more so! We each have our role to play as good citizens and part of that is standing up and being counted even if that means standing as a councilor!
How are we responsible for the state of the county?!! We are the ones pouring money into the county and they are the ones that are being PAYED to make sure that money is used sensibly, how is it fair that we are paying more in taxes than Inverness yet we have nowhere near the variety of facilities that they have, of course they are responsable or incase of the Asda voting irresponsable.
You obviously haven't seen the size of me. If I stood on one he/she would never vote again!
crashbandicoot1979
29-Jun-06, 14:10
I wouldn't worry about hurting their feelings too much crashbandicoot they are inflicting a lot more on the public than having to read hate mail, waken up, we are paying £6 above national average for council tax yet we have poor roads , no dentists, higher fuel costs, poor services that are about to get worse due to cutbacks, a very limited selection of amenities with overpriced goods and any thing other than minor ailments has to be taken care of in Inverness...I could go on and on all day about the mess these councillors have the county in ...and you are worried about their feelings. Yeah right, do you live in the pennyland area by any chance?
I live in Mount Vernon actually.
I am not overly concerned about their feelings but seriously, what will sending them hate mail achieve? I agree totally, we pay though the nose for a poor service, which I touched upon in an earlier comment - Caithness as a whole, and Thurso in particular have many failings that need addressed if it is to progess into the 21st century and cope with the inevitable population growth. As much as I feel a supermarket could be an asset, there are other things such as lack of dentists etc that need to be addressed aswell, infact I would say they are more important. I think people are over-reacting by saying that caithness/Thurso is doomed because of this. I don't think it is. It has its failings yes, but building as Asda isn't the answer to all of them.
You obviously haven't seen the size of me. If I stood on one he/she would never vote again!
Maybe that is a good idea...naaaa.lol
OK how much? I can be bought you know!
Gogglebox
29-Jun-06, 15:55
I emailed Councillor Smith about his decision and have had two very acceptable replies and i can see why he made his decision the way he did
I dont agree with his decison but he can justify his actions and thats fair enough for me, he made the decision he felt was right on the evidence put before him
Atleast he had the courtesy to reply the other 3 didnt
Well actually now you say it nobody ever did actually ask us what we wanted regarding wind farms etc
But then again nobody asked us if we wanted to have the Ormlie Community Association in the first place - -although to be fair it has done some good, but not all they have done is good
And yes i am surmising from what you could call a "straw poll" of people i have spoken to about it in the area that it would not be very welcome.
Maybe not the most accurate of opinion canvassing but it certainly was indictitive to me
I certainly dont recall any letter advising me of it just read that the
ex-councillor with the bad "irish" said it was coming whatever
However back to ASDA, it would be impractical to arrange a vote for everything and we obviously do have to hope that our elected representatives represnt our opinions.
THis time they have just got it BADLY wrong
Maybe this ridiculous decision will do some good and people will get off their backsides and vote next election day and mean that these people who become councillors are representative of the majority and not just the 10% or so of the community that vote
Thank you for solving the puzzle of the Ormlie Community and what appeared to be their wish to ride roughshod over another community. I stand corrected - and thank you also for the polite reply.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, and hope that next time there is an election people do indeed use their vote to ensure that those elected are representative of ALL the community.
Mr P Cannop
29-Jun-06, 16:21
I emailed Councillor Smith about his decision and have had two very acceptable replies and i can see why he made his decision the way he did
I dont agree with his decison but he can justify his actions and thats fair enough for me, he made the decision he felt was right on the evidence put before him
Atleast he had the courtesy to reply the other 3 didnt
i had 2 emails from 2 councilors in wick sent an email 3 emails to the councilors in thurso 2 of them read my emails but no replys
redbaron1947
29-Jun-06, 16:35
Similar story here. I sent (courteous and polite) emails to the 4 councillors who voted against, one read and replied, two read and didn't reply, the fourth appears not to have opened the mail I sent.
Come on you lot.Cllr Smith explains why he cast his deciding vote. ASDA may or may not be good for Thurso - time will tell because come they will. If only they had not been led by other parties with their own covert agendas they could well have been sitting on a successful application as we speak. To say alternatives were considered when the places were hardly fit for a couple of Portaloos was a goof promoted by I suspect these other parties lurking in the background. ASDA should cut loose and seriously consider an application at the business park which would go thro on the nod.
Christine
29-Jun-06, 20:01
I think it's what Councillors do best. Make sure that they get what they want and are able to spin us a yarn that gets them off the hook! Lets forget about the 'Local Plan' and 'the Greenfield Site'. Mr Smith manages to forget about them too when it suits him, ie Tesco. The whole point here is that David Flear, Bill Fernie, Alistair MacDonald and John Green voted for the Asda store because it made good economic sense, and they knew without doubt that the VAST majority of the people in the area wanted it. Jackson, Saxon & Mackay were also aware that the majority wanted Asda but decided to vote against the wishes of their constituents because of ..... what? The Local Plan? I seem to remember someone trying to get a house built in Murkle which goes against the local plan and Mr Mackay supporting the application every time it comes before planning?!? The bottom line is that the three Thurso Councillors dismissed the opinions of their constituents as being unimportant in the grand scheme of things. They cannot be trusted to do the right thing by us in the future and therefore must go. I have written to my own Councillor (one of the three) asking for his reasons for voting against the Asda store. Needless to say he has not replied but I am now going to write to the Chief Executive of Highland Council to see if that will waken them up!
So our illustrious Thurso councillors turned down the planning permission. I hope everyone remembers to kick them out next time they're looking for election. I for one will be watching with interest they're reasons for it. i have my own opinion but i would get put in orger jail if i said it
the councillors have submitted a notice of amendment to reverse the decision, great news, see my new thread.
I have been looking around the Highland Council website for similar hearings regarding planning matters and note with interest that in Sep 2005 regarding the Lieurary Windfarm hearing that the following was stated:
"Councillor MacDonald, seconded by Councillor Flear, moved that the application be refused on the grounds that it was contrary to Policy E2 of the Highland Structure Plan as the visual impact of the proposed development would be significantly detrimental."
Hmmmm...........double standards or hedging bets for election time?
There is a letter in the groat today, suggesting that, to counteract the fears of supermarket giants ruining the centre of our towns, why not make part of the deal a condition that also buy an empty premises in the town centre. They could then use this as an extra outlet, or cafe - what ever they wanted. What a good idea thinks me. This would satisfy those who object on the above reasons.
i believe the superstores are already looking at purchasing 'corner shops' in the cities as extra outlets and by public demand. (if it's not already started) Why wait another 20 years before it happens here?
Can't the councilors do something with that one?
What is all this green belt thing about?? Just look around we have miles and miles of "green". You have to go about 10 miles past pennyland to get to the next village (Reay). I know I'm not the brightest crayon in the box but am I missing something?
I have now taken the time to speak to my local councillor, one of the three, after speaking to him I have to say, in all fairness, what he said did make sense. Seemingly there is land earmarked for retail purposes just the other side of the battery factory in Thurso, just a few hundred yards from the proposed site, it would not interfere with the local plan, anyone's view, cause congestion etc etc but ASDA don't seem to have considered it. Let's face it a few hundred yards out of the town wouldn't make that much difference as councillor Saxon says it would also strengthen the case for the distributer road across the moor. He is not against ASDA just that particular place for it. He also says that ASDA's application had a lot of mistakes in it - wrong street names etc
I don't think ASDA is a lost cause yet!
wrong street names???? that is a reason???
crashbandicoot1979
30-Jun-06, 16:36
wrong street names???? that is a reason???
I think they are trying to suggest that ASDA's research was not very meticulous if they are making such errors in their application. I doubt it would have made much difference anyway - the "green belt" thing was the clincher.
I have now taken the time to speak to my local councillor, one of the three, after speaking to him I have to say, in all fairness, what he said did make sense. Seemingly there is land earmarked for retail purposes just the other side of the battery factory in Thurso, just a few hundred yards from the proposed site, it would not interfere with the local plan, anyone's view, cause congestion etc etc but ASDA don't seem to have considered it. Let's face it a few hundred yards out of the town wouldn't make that much difference as councillor Saxon says it would also strengthen the case for the distributer road across the moor. He is not against ASDA just that particular place for it. He also says that ASDA's application had a lot of mistakes in it - wrong street names etc
I don't think ASDA is a lost cause yet!Perhaps nobody told ASDA about it. I guess he didn't. He certainly didn't communicate his thoughts to the people he represents. I'm sorry, but when compared with my councillor (or the one I had when Safeway were building in my back yard), he just ain't in the same league. If he and his two partners-in-crime were any good they'd have avoided the current fiasco. What a shambles...
Oh yes, and my councillor is a Tory! :eek:
mickey101
30-Jun-06, 18:34
Hi
I am sorry but Mr Saxon's answer stinks. This is outline planning permission stage were there are several avenues available to the council to let the application proceed in principal without stopping it. Conditions etc could have been placed on the outline acceptance to encourage Asda to consider other factors.
Mr Saxon et als real intention was to kill it stone dead and that is exactly what they tried to do. What they didnt count on was the back lash from the community and now he and his friends are desperately trying to spin their way out of it. Sorry we arent that gullable.
Personnally the green belt excuse is a load of crock. This isn't an inner city we live in a sparsly populated rural area and desperately need the jobs and investment that ASDA would bring.. That should have been the Thurso councillors first thought not looking after their own agenda.
As a matter of opinion I would prefer to see Asda in a better location but not at the price of losing the investment. I think at the business park would be a better place to have it and it would not be any hardship to Asda. It is only a few more minutes along the road and I dare say Rapsons will quickly include a regualr bus service out to the shop for those few folk who dont drive.
But first lets get ASDA back interested in investing in this community.
M
Kirsty Dubh
30-Jun-06, 18:55
I agree. Councillor Saxon is just desperately trying to get out of it! Why didn't the Councillor's that voted YES have such objections. They seemed to put the views of the people first. Mr Saxon is just putting forward his own opinion all the time and that is not what he was voted in to do. Personally I don't want it to go to the business park. I think they chose the right spot - although I know it is in Mr Saxon's back yard so obviously he does not want it there (so the local plan jargon comes in handy)! Next they will be telling us they were doing it 'for the people' and everyone will be clapping them on the back telling them how wonderful they are. I think we all need to wake up!
mickey101
30-Jun-06, 20:21
Hi
I am curious about our well intentioned, well meaning duty bound councillors Mr Saxon et al. As ASDA have been quite public about their plans, even to the point of having a presentation at a local hotel. Did any of our esteemed Thurso councillors think to talk to them about there choice of location and that there was an area specifically zoned for retail development not a stone throws up the road?
Did any of them think to work with ASDA to help ensure a satisfactory outcome for all concerned and ensure that Thurso benefitted from the investment?
Or am I being just tooooo smart here.
M
Sorry Roger you can shaft some of the people some of the time, but you cant shaft all of the people all of the time.
thebigman
30-Jun-06, 21:09
Hi
I am sorry but Mr Saxon's answer stinks. This is outline planning permission stage were there are several avenues available to the council to let the application proceed in principal without stopping it. Conditions etc could have been placed on the outline acceptance to encourage Asda to consider other factors.
I'm afraid, like a number of people on this forum, you need to read up on the Planning legislation. The Council can alter designs, building layout etc at detailed planning stage but they cannot grant outline for a specific site and then insist that it moves 400 - 500 metres away at a later date.
The chances are that ASDA have made a specific financial offer for this site and any other land owners may not wish to sell. As may well be the case with in town sites such as the Thurso mart.
The Big Man
mickey101
30-Jun-06, 21:40
Hi
Okay I stand corrected on planning legislation however what is the point of having areas zoned for retail development if
1) Interested parties arent told about them
2) The people who own the land that has been thus designated dont want to sell?
M
mickey101
30-Jun-06, 21:42
Hi
Okay I stand corrected on planning legislation however what is the point of having areas zoned for retail development if
1) Interested parties arent told about them
2) The people who own the land that has been thus designated dont want to sell?
M
thebigman
30-Jun-06, 22:10
Hi
Okay I stand corrected on planning legislation however what is the point of having areas zoned for retail development if
1) Interested parties arent told about them
2) The people who own the land that has been thus designated dont want to sell?
M
Mickey
If I was the Chief Executive of Walmart / ASDA I would be kicking some butt if my staff or agents didn't look at the local / area plans as a first step to submitting an application to see where the designated areas are.
As far as the sale of the land goes I suspect that most of the areas designated for commercial development are own by public authorities so in this case I woldn't see any problems with sale or lease.
The Big Man
[quote=mickey101]Hi
I am curious about our well intentioned, well meaning duty bound councillors Mr Saxon et al. As ASDA have been quite public about their plans, even to the point of having a presentation at a local hotel. Did any of our esteemed Thurso councillors think to talk to them about there choice of location and that there was an area specifically zoned for retail development not a stone throws up the road?
Did any of them think to work with ASDA to help ensure a satisfactory outcome for all concerned and ensure that Thurso benefitted from the investment?
Hello Katrina MacNab here I have read many of your comment with interest and I have added a response on the 'missing councillor' thread.
With the utmost respect there is a lot of inaccuarcies here that on behalf of my fellow councillors I feel should be pointed out.
as a councillor there is a strict code of conduct which prohibits any councillor discussing anything with developers. This puts us off attending public hearings as we can be be drawn in to things which would mean that we would not allow to take part in the planning meetings.
I would presume that the Thurso councillors like the rest of us would not have know that asda was coming up until the Thursday before the meeting on the Monday so they would not have had much notice.
I am going to tell a little story so bear with me as you all know Pulteney is classed as an area of deprivation, this is largely due to the shortage of 3 and 4 bedroom houses which are scare in my ward with virtually no 3/4 bedroomed council houses. This affects the south school roll and means that within the area we have a large amount of single people.
Pentland Housing/MM Miller put forward a proposal to build a mix of flats 3 and 4 bedroomed houses in the old Caithness Glass site. From the paper prepared I was delighted and the recommendation was for approval. 15 mins before the meeting we have the opportunity to look at the detailed plans - I was gutted - the 3/4 bedroomed houses had no gardens and the flats had big gardens. When it came on the agenda I urged refusal because in my experience people who need 3/4 bedroom houses have children and want a garden. People in flats are single people who often dont attend their garden to the annoyance of neighbours. Graham Smith urged councillor to put it through arguing their was a park nearby. I argued busy parents dont have time to keep going to the park and want to be able to put children out to play in safe secure gardens.
fortunately the councillors supported me and it was rejected with a strong message that it would be supported if they change the layout and include gardens for the bigger houses.
the developers took this on board and if anyone has been in Wick recently they will see the fine development taking place with houses being built that I am proud to have been involved in with appropriate gardens.
what I am trying to say is it is my understanding that none of the Thurso councillors are against ASDA what they are against is the location. Based on the grounds of the distributer road arguement being strenghened and the better location being at the battery park.
ASDA has not withdrawn their interest - Thurso Councillors do not oppose ASDA - the question is where is the best location? This is what you want to be debating.:lol:
What the Thurso councillors were saying to asda was - hold on wait is this the best location for our town and they dont think the current proposal is. I dont know the right answer (if there is one) but it is not as cut and dried as you think.
mickey101
01-Jul-06, 00:04
Hi
I am open to what has been written on behalf of Mrs McNab however I will make a plain statement that can be interpretted as people wish.
The people in Thurso have had it with getting the thin end of the wedge. We pay our taxes and rates and in return we get degrading services from our local government and attempted removal of critical services by our central government.
The quality of our supermarkets is ridiculous. The local petrol retailers treat us like mugs and all the time we are expected to be grateful.
We see the local councillors apparently trying to uphold the status quo, protect the very businesses that have been taking us for a ride for so long and keep what the people of Thurso perceive as a breath of retail fresh air out.
If ASDA walk away from this community then the people of Thurso will loose what little faith they have left in local Goverment and that would be a disaster.
Maybe in the long run ASDA will be bad for this community maybe it wont be. But we would like to find that out for ourselves not have our unbiased local official go against the clear wishes of the community (and the planning officer for the county) and make that decision for us. They were after all elected to represent the majority.
Getting back to Mrs McNabs point that nothing is as clear cut as it seems. It is not hard to think the whole ASDA planning rejection stank and so far we have heard little to change our minds. However the folk of Thurso are reasonable people and we await our local councillors' explanation- so far they haven't. When and if they do, just dont treat us like fools.
Many of us are well versed in the saga of when Tesco tried to get into Thurso and the creative ways that were used to block it until they eventually gave up. Another example of Local Government working for the people it is supposed to represent is the Orange Phone mast in Naver field which was erected against common sense and the wishes of the locals.
BTW I am curious about the distributer road scheme? Most people in Thurso cant see the point of it and exactly how is the council going to pay for it as they are proposing to cut services left/right and centre supposedly due to lack of funds.
M
It's taken me well over an hour to read this thread and I can understand why most people are disappointed with the councillors decision.I don't live in the area so I can't sign the petition but I do hope you get a review on the planning permission.At the last local elections I was delighted when someone stood as an Independent in my ward.It was short lived though,as soon as he was in he moved over to Labour.We should be able to sue for misrepresentation.It doesn't matter where you live green belt is only green belt when the council wants it to be.My town is in uproar at the moment because of the antics of the County Council.They have sold off sports and playing fields near the town centre for housing.It has now been discovered that there is a covenant on the ground forbidding building.Does the council care?of course they don't,they say because it's over sixty years old it's no longer legally binding.We do have a park given to the town by the Duke of Portland but it's not the same as playing fields.The local council here has a nasty habit of taking land left to the people of hucknall,the last lot they turned into a paying car park.Good luck with your petition but you will need to keep up the momentum.
what I am trying to say is it is my understanding that none of the Thurso councillors are against ASDA what they are against is the location. Based on the grounds of the distributer road arguement being strenghened and the better location being at the battery park.
ASDA has not withdrawn their interest - Thurso Councillors do not oppose ASDA - the question is where is the best location? This is what you want to be debating.:lol:
What the Thurso councillors were saying to asda was - hold on wait is this the best location for our town and they dont think the current proposal is. I dont know the right answer (if there is one) but it is not as cut and dried as you think.This sounds like a bunch of lame excuses to me. If the Thurso councillors do not oppose ASDA but think it should be sited elsewhere then they should have made damned sure this information was conveyed to ASDA or whoever represents them. If ASDA didn't listen, then they should have tried harder and they should have done it in public by whatever means were appropriate. They should also have been in better communication with the people they purport to represent.
The question of best location is not what we should be debating right now. It's what should have been debated long ago. Heck, even I knew that ASDA were applying for outline planning permission for a store at Pennyland; I also knew about the local plan for housing and the preferred location for business development between Naver and the business park - and I haven't lived in Thurso for years, nor have I had any particular interest in this business - until now. If I absorbed this information by osmosis then I'm equally sure that any councillors who were in favour of ASDA should have made sure that the aforementioned company absorbed it too.
Councillors often hide behind local plans and codes of conduct when they've underperformed. It's the sort of lame excuse we all use when we've not handled things very well. What is clear is that this has been a public relations disaster and no-one comes out smelling of roses.
Finally... At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam...
Pepsi, could you (or someone else) please explain why the business park is a better location for ASDA? I don't see it myself. It's further out of town and it seems to me that its chief raison d'etre is to further the case for the "distributor road" (or whatever it's called).
Finally...
I hope you had a great holiday, and I'm truly sorry that I'm addressing this rant to you personally, but no-one else has stuck their head above the parapet. I've read about your work in Wick/Pulteneytown and have always been impressed.
I hope you had a great holiday, and I'm truly sorry that I'm addressing this rant to you personally, but no-one else has stuck their head above the parapet. I've read about your work in Wick/Pulteneytown and have always been impressed.
No offence taken - thanks for acknowledgement of work going on in Wick/Pulteneytown but it is not really 'my work', I am just the front. Backstage in the council is without a doubt the team of officials who do most of the work, and the PPP work which includes breakfast club, after school club, summer club, hobbies groups, HomeLink, skatepark, and bus trips is all the work of the community who were fed up with nothing happening in Pulteney, I just muck in with them and it is great fun.
Talking of which it is PPP annual fun day today and the money raised goes towards summer school, hobbies groups and bus trips. These are attended by kids and ladies (generally) from Watten, Lybster, Keiss and all areas in Wick. So feel free to come along and support them. There is a barbecue, football tournament, bottle stall, games for kids, local high school bands, highland dancers and the majorettes. Come along and see a community doing something for their community. (just thought I would plug this cause a lot of hard work gone into organising it).:Razz
South School 1pm Saturday
[quote=mickey101]Hi
I am open to what has been written on behalf of Mrs McNab
come on Mickey 'written on my behalf' - I can talk for my self. shutting up is my problem.
:lol: congrats on your arguement from the heart and I like that.
Finally... At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam...
Pepsi, could you (or someone else) please explain why the business park is a better location for ASDA? I don't see it myself. It's further out of town and it seems to me that its chief raison d'etre is to further the case for the "distributor road" (or whatever it's called).
Doc, the business park is not much further out of town. It's on the A836, maybe a mile or so west of the site proposed by ASDA. Closer than Scrabster harbour, in fact. IMHO, it wouldn't be too much of an inconvenience driving that teeny bit more to get to ASDA at the business park. In that location, it wouldn't be obstructing anyone's view of Thurso Bay and the Orkneys. :)
The Councillors are governed by strict legislation regarding planning matters – they are unable to be involved before the hearing on the application, if they do become involved then they must declare an interest and remove themselves from the proceeding (therefore losing the right to vote on the matter). The legislations they must adhere to are:
Town & Country Planning (Scotland) Act
COSLA – Advice for Councillors regarding Planning Matters
The Councillors Code of Conduct
The Local Plan
The National Planning Policy Guidelines
All the information they require is presented to them at the hearing meeting (in this case last Mondays) – they must satisfy themselves that the information addresses all issues raised the above legislation. The Council Planning Officer presents his plan, the Applicant (ASDA presents his proposal) and finally the objectors present their concerns. After all three are satisfied that they have been given a fair hearing the decision is passed to the Councillors.
I attended this meeting and ADSAs retail analysis was clearly flawed, the other sites they had been offered (eg: the small strip of land on Sir Archibald Road, the Thurso Caravan Site etc) were clearly unsuitable. The Council Planning Official could not speak to his own proposal – at one point he actually assured the Councillors that the siting of the store would have very little impact on neighbouring residents.
The anger here has been directed at the Councillors – you should be looking to question the Planning Department and Developers (Tulloch/Bay trading – who own both the Pennyland farm site and the large business development site 2 field further down the road) as to why they hadn’t offered the business part as another option at the start of this debacle. Had the Proposal come from ASDA at this site then I doubt any of the Councillors would have felt obliged to refuse the proposal due to the fact it was clearly contrary to Government policies – the “No” voting Councillors made their decision “by the book”. If the Developer had done their job properly six months ago we would all be rejoicing the coming of ASDA.
webmannie
01-Jul-06, 10:10
The Councillors are governed by strict legislation regarding planning matters – they are unable to be involved before the hearing on the application, if they do become involved then they must declare an interest and remove themselves from the proceeding (therefore losing the right to vote on the matter).
Guess you should have removed yourself then, you became involved before the meeting by sending in an objection.
Moby, you are missing the point. Councillors can make their opinions public in many ways. They can talk in public, they can circulate newsletters, they can talk to their constituents. Their views are not private matters that must be kept to themselves. Of course they can't be involved in a planning process which they will judge, but neither are they forced to keep their opinions in a hermetically sealed jar until judgement day. I've been through this whole process as a resident in an area where a huge supermarket was built and I know exactly what the local councillors did and didn't do. They made their views perfectly clear in public - they explained which sites were and weren't available and they listened to the local residents.
This whole process apears to have been a shambles. You can blame the planners if you wish, and I don't disagree with you on that front. But that ain't the whole story and you surely know it.
Enjoy your view. :D
mickey101
01-Jul-06, 12:16
[quote=mickey101]Hi
I am open to what has been written on behalf of Mrs McNab
come on Mickey 'written on my behalf' - I can talk for my self. shutting up is my problem.
:lol: congrats on your arguement from the heart and I like that.
I wasn't aware that Pepsi was you and not a friend. We are well used to our councillors hiding behind third parties and never coming out in person. I do admire your guts for at least standing up in a public forum and putting your point across.
Your take on the facts may be the correct, however this town has seen too much double dealing by our local officials ( eg Wind turbines etc) to be anything less than cynical over our local councillors' behavour in this matter.
ASDA made no secret of where they wanted to go and local councillors must have known this ( either that or they walk around with blind folds and ear muffs), You are telling me that there is no mechanism in place where they could have informed ASDA of locations that would be acceptable to both sides. So knowing full well six months that the location was not acceptable to them for one reason or another, they let ASDA go blindly on???? No wonder the council is short of money that is a criminal waste of resources, not to mention not in the communities' interest.
M
Ps I admire your stance on gardens however what happened with the development beside the Coop in Thurso? I am surprised those houses even pass fire regulations they are that close together. I doubt if it would be acceptable in a caravan park.
The Councillors are governed by strict legislation regarding planning matters – they are unable to be involved before the hearing on the application, if they do become involved then they must declare an interest and remove themselves from the proceeding (therefore losing the right to vote on the matter).Aye, and any councillor who lives in a house bordering the proposed development should surely declare an interest and remove themselves from the proceeding (therefore losing the right to vote on the matter). ;)
Or is that bit of "common sense" not included in the oft-quoted legalistic diatribe?
Doc, the business park is not much further out of town. It's on the A836, maybe a mile or so west of the site proposed by ASDA. Closer than Scrabster harbour, in fact. IMHO, it wouldn't be too much of an inconvenience driving that teeny bit more to get to ASDA at the business park. In that location, it wouldn't be obstructing anyone's view of Thurso Bay and the Orkneys.Yes, I know where the business park is, and it's a good bit further out of town than Pennyland Farm - it's a lot further to walk for the couple of thousand(ish) people who live within walk-to-shop distance of Pennyland Farm, and there will likely be knock-on effects in traffic levels. The rationale for the other site also includes a road which doesn't currently exist. Last, and most definitely least, there's a plan to build new houses right next to the alternative site - they would be snapped up like hot-cakes because of their superb panoramic views over ASDA. ;)
Seriously, the other site does have some advantages, but it ain't a panacea either.
I think almost everyone would agree that this whole business could have been handled a lot better!
Kirsty Dubh
01-Jul-06, 13:04
I am sorry but I still don't get it! Just say for instance, and this is just hypothetical, that two or three weeks ago, someone (lets just say a Councillors wife) told a shopkeeper who was worried about Asda coming that she needn't worry and this same Councillor happened to be someone that lives close to the development and turned it down, would you not be a tiny bit suspicious - all hypothetical I might add!!!!!!!!!! To me that means (a) he knew where Asda proposed to sight it just like the thousands of locals and (b) he had every intention of saying no - no matter what. At that point he would not have known anything about the 'wrong addresses' or 'wrong streets'. What a joke this whole thing is. The best place for this development is Pennyland Farm and it is not as if it is going to be right in their faces like it would be if it was sited at the Mart (for the poor people on Ormlie Road!) I also agree with the others that it will be too far out the road at the business park. Lets not forget that four councillors proposed that it went ahead at Pennyland so lets just get on with it!!
mickey101
01-Jul-06, 13:48
Hi
To take Kirsty's hypothetical theory a stage further, for what she suggests to be possible it would, in theory mean that our councillors had got together prior to the meeting and decided how they were going to vote without hearing any of the submissions.
But of course they wouldnt do that, as it would not be ethical. So of course it must be purely theoretical must it not??????.
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