Thanks to the BBC

[adi1]

May I thank the BBC tonight for a brilliant piece of TV at the end of the football.
Being a avid football supporter and thinking I had a good knowledge of things football,I learned why a lot of football grounds have "ends" called The Kop.
probably the most famous is The Spion Kop at Anfield. The names where given after the battle of Spion Kop in the Natal South Africa during the Boer War when British troops (mainly Lancashire Regiments) ascended the stone hill at night fall to drive the Boer's off the hill to gain a tactical advantage.After what they thought was the top of the plateau and driving a few Boers off the hill they became subject of heavy fire from rifles and artillery. Unable to dig in because of the solid rock they where picked off at ease as the fog lifted they realised they had not reached their objective the high plateau.Many troops where killed and over a 1000 taken prisoner. A young Winston Churchill cut his teeth their and also Ghandi treated the wounded on the hill serving with the South African Ambulance Corps.Some of the survivors who went to Anfield called the end behind the goal the Spion Kop after a large amount of spoil was dumped there and the club built a new stand on it to take advantage of its height.
Mark Lawrenson told the story with great passion and pride,anyone who did not see it who as any interest in football I can reccomend the 5 minute piece

[Kodiak]

Yes the Battle of SpionKop, (from the Dutch Spion for Spy and Kop for Hill), was one of the biggest losses for the British during the Boar War.

This Action happened in 1900 on the 23rd - 24th February. The British lost a total of 1.185 men - with 322 confirmed dead, 563 wounded and 300 missing, most of them presumed to have been victims of gun shells.

Boer casualties amounted to 58 killed and 140 wounded - the Carolina commando suffering the most with 55 killed or wounded out of their total number of 85.

To read more here is a good web page :-

http://www.instinsky.de/theron_-_instinsky_______boer_1.html

[Bazeye]

May I thank the BBC tonight for a brilliant piece of TV at the end of the football.
Being a avid football supporter and thinking I had a good knowledge of things football,I learned why a lot of football grounds have "ends" called The Kop.
probably the most famous is The Spion Kop at Anfield. The names where given after the battle of Spion Kop in the Natal South Africa during the Boer War when British troops (mainly Lancashire Regiments) ascended the stone hill at night fall to drive the Boer's off the hill to gain a tactical advantage.After what they thought was the top of the plateau and driving a few Boers off the hill they became subject of heavy fire from rifles and artillery. Unable to dig in because of the solid rock they where picked off at ease as the fog lifted they realised they had not reached their objective the high plateau.Many troops where killed and over a 1000 taken prisoner. A young Winston Churchill cut his teeth their and also Ghandi treated the wounded on the hill serving with the South African Ambulance Corps.Some of the survivors who went to Anfield called the end behind the goal the Spion Kop after a large amount of spoil was dumped there and the club built a new stand on it to take advantage of its height.
Mark Lawrenson told the story with great passion and pride,anyone who did not see it who as any interest in football I can reccomend the 5 minute piece

i knew that already as i suspect amy winehouse did.

[Anfield]

Did not see programme so don't know if the following bit of trivia was mentioned.

The flag pole at the Kop end of Anfield was the main mast from the ss Great Eastern, one of the first ever iron ships.
Designed by Brunel she started life as an ocean going liner capable of carrying 4,000 passengers. She was then converted to a cable lying ship, and laid the first permanent cable between the UK and USA
She was then converted to a floating music hall for Lewis's ( a very large Liverpool department store) before being broke up at the turn of the century

[Metalattakk]

Being a avid football supporter and thinking I had a good knowledge of things football,I learned why a lot of football grounds have "ends" called The Kop.
probably the most famous is The Spion Kop at Anfield.

Interesting that you omitted all reference to Woolwich Arsenal's "Kop" end (which the programme certainly didn't gloss over).

Liverpool's Kop was named long after Woolwich Arsenal had moved from their old ground (with the original Kop End named after the battle of Spion Kop) to the then new Highbury stadium.

There's little evidence to support the notion that Liverpool FC named their Kop after the battle itself. It's entirely possible that they just named it after a part of Arsenal's famous old stadium.

[wifie]

OK I didn't see the programme but if anyone mentioned the Kop to me I would immediately think Liverpool and not Arsenal - just my tuppenceworth! Metal yer doin a lot of jumpin down throats just now? Is it yer hormones? ;) Mibbe you just have that heavy feeling!

[Metalattakk]

OK I didn't see the programme but if anyone mentioned the Kop to me I would immediately think Liverpool and not Arsenal - just my tuppenceworth!

Och aye, Liverpool's Kop is much more famous, and rightly so. After all Woolwich Arsenal moved to Highbury in 1913 or something like that. According to the BBC programme the other night, Liverpool's Kop wasn't named until some time in the early 1930s. They could be wrong though, let's face it, they are the BBC.


Metal yer doin a lot of jumpin down throats just now? Is it yer hormones? ;) Mibbe you just have that heavy feeling!

Nah, just righting wrongs and slapping down the idiots a wee bit. I feel it's necessary sometimes. ;)

[adi1]

Heres the link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8775410.stm

[Metalattakk]

Heres the link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8775410.stm

Cheers for that, I missed the start when it was broadcast.

Happy to admit my errors regarding the time-line and would like to apologise to the BBC unreservedly. (Although they did monumentally feck up my World Cup schedule!)

Mind you, most of my claims are still relevant, given the utter clownshoe Lawrenson's remark - "It is believed that a band of supporters who had survived the horrors of Spion Kop, named the stand after their fallen fiends..." (08.00mins)

'It is believed' does not equal 'It is true'. ;)

[TonyAttwood]

I think a little confusion may have arisen over the use of the name "kop" for one end of the Woolwich Arsenal ground in Plumstead which the club occupied until 1913.

Woolwich Arsenal FC regularly had on its books ex-soldiers whose natural destination (especially after the Boer War) was the munitions factories on the Thames. The whole area (which at the time was a military outpost in Kent, rather than being part of London as today) was focussed on the biggest employer in the area - the munitions factory.

So naming a part of the Woolwich Arsenal ground after a military event was natural.

However the names of part of the ground were not as widely used then as today, and the notion of "ends", away supporters etc was not part of football. Indeed Woolwich Arsenal didn't even have local derbies for quite a long time - Chelsea didn't enter the league until 1905, and the first Arsenal/Tottenham derby was not until 1909.

As such although there was almost certainly a sign at one time naming the terrace, it was not referred to in common parlance.

Last year I published the book "Making the Arsenal" which focuses on Arsenal in 1910, and didn't find a single reference in newspaper articles etc to the name of the ends of the ground.

So overall, it was something that was done as a mark of respect, and in recognition of Woolwich Arsenal's link with the military, but it was not in common use.

Woolwich Arsenal FC (uniquely among no longer existent clubs) has its own web site which records things of this nature.

Tony Attwood

[The Drunken Duck]

Saw this item and thought it was really good, like most people I never knew how the Kop got its name.

Tough lot certain scousers, like Noel Chavasse. One of only three men to win the Victoria Cross twice. His memorial in Liverpool is well worth a visit.