View Full Version : changing language
I know language is constantly evolving, but I find certain new trends annoying. The use of the word 'of' in place of the word 'have' being a prime example. As in, 'I should of gone home earlier.' GRRRR. Even adults seem to be doing this. Is this now accepted in schools? Or is our education system seriously letting our youth down?
another that seems to have crept into the language since I was at school is the word 'Jamp' It used to be jumped. However I don't mind that one for some reason.
Anyone else got a pet 'grammaritical' hate?
I hate the buzzwords that get revamped on journalist's lips atm. The latest one seems to be 'caveat', it used to be 'coercion'.
I get annoyed at business jargon like "impacted" and "interfacing".
orkneylass
24-Jun-06, 12:20
sec'etree for secretary, nucular for nuclear, envira'ment for environment, amount for number "the amount of people nowadays..." yuck! and disinterested when people mean uninterested. An english degree can cause you a lot of stress.....
'I should of gone home earlier.' Hey, that is one of my pet hates too! I think it comes from confusion over "I should have gone home earlier" being shortened to "I should've gone home earlier".
Annoyingly I find myself using some of the modern "signal speak" like flicking two fingers on both hands to indicate quote marks. I can't remember any more just now 'cos ahm gettan' dottled "at this moment in time"!
Another pet hate for me is "pair" being used in the wrong context as in "a pair of tickets".
Tickets do not come in pairs. Gloves, shoes, trousers etc., come in pairs. A ticket can come as a single, or in twos, threes, fours or more.
I can see where you are coming from but to tell you the truth i couldnt care less how people use vocaulary as long as i can understand them and vice versa.
I love your quote ann !!:D
Dance as though no-one can see you
orkneylass
24-Jun-06, 12:32
Despite what I said I can see where you are coming from too - language and communication are two diferent things. just a thought but would you find any sort of table manners Ok as long as the food got into the mouth????? similar principle.
connieb19
24-Jun-06, 12:32
Another pet hate for me is "pair" being used in the wrong context as in "a pair of tickets".
Tickets do not come in pairs. Gloves, shoes, trousers etc., come in pairs.Why are knickers called a pair, when there is only 1?:confused I can see the point with trousers because there are two legs, but knickers?
I love your quote ann !!:D
Dance as though no-one can see you
Thanks, the full verse is:-
Dance as though no one is watching you.
Love as though you have never been hurt.
Sing as though no one can hear you.
Live as though heaven is on earth.
orkneylass
24-Jun-06, 12:37
2 leg holes???? When you think about it a pair of trousers is still only one garment. The English language is not logical - ask anyone learning it as a second language
Why are knickers called a pair, when there is only 1?:confused I can see the point with trousers because there are two legs, but knickers?
Oh Connie, no wonder you are confused! Do your knickers not have two legs as well? ;)
melted_wellie
24-Jun-06, 12:40
Oh Connie, no wonder you are confused! Do your knickers not have two legs as well? ;)yeah,course they have,its just there is 3 yards of material separating them.
2 leg holes???? When you think about it a pair of trousers is still only one garment. The English language is not logical - ask anyone learning it as a second language
You are so right! How do you explain to a pupil the pronunciation of "though, plough, rough, trough, enough" etc?
connieb19
24-Jun-06, 12:44
Oh Connie, no wonder you are confused! Do your knickers not have two legs as well? ;)So why isn't a jumper a pair?:eek:
connieb19
24-Jun-06, 12:45
yeah,course they have,its just there is 3 yards of material separating them.That's the thongs, you should see the size of the big old baggy bloomers..:eek:
So why isn't a jumper a pair?:eek:
:roll: hehehe...
connieb19
24-Jun-06, 12:48
:roll: hehehe...Or a Bra for that matter..lol:eek:
I dislike intensely the use of the word ongoing, what happened to continuing?
Negative profit is another why not a loss?
Where has the phrase "Can I get?" come into the language from? Surely it should be "May I have?"
I have no arguement about dialect words and phrases they make the language special but the daily corruption of what used to be a precise language can be irritating ,annoying,confusing,misleading,inapropriate and inept.
Now that I have got that out of my system I'm already feeling better!
Why are knickers called a pair, when there is only 1?:confused I can see the point with trousers because there are two legs, but knickers?
But surely there are 2 legs in knickers!!!!!!
Cedric Farthsbottom III
25-Jun-06, 01:48
Or a Bra for that matter..lol:eek:
Watch oot oor Connie,oor Dunderheed got org jail for talking aboot bra's!!!:lol:
orkneylass
25-Jun-06, 09:11
Hi Connie B - in relation to this thread, it should be "They're coming to take me away".
connieb19
25-Jun-06, 09:16
But surely there are 2 legs in knickers!!!!!!So why isn't a jumper or a bra a pair then? :confused
Is'nt English wonderful, (unless you are learning it as a second language), down here we play draughts and up there you play drafts! Or was that an error with the spell check. We have a Mount Gambier here in South Australia but the Spell check corrected it to Mount Gambia and the Journo didn't know the difference. Sad for the language. Next generation will talk in text. must be my age regards to all robyn
orkneylass
25-Jun-06, 10:21
On the bra theme, my mother moved to the UK from germany over 50 years ago with schoolgirl english and had to shop for a bra - so she asked the shop assistant for a straight translation of the german "bustenhalter" - ie "I need a breast holder!":Razz
Thanks, the full verse is:-
Dance as though no one is watching you.
Love as though you have never been hurt.
Sing as though no one can hear you.
Live as though heaven is on earth.
What a lovely philosophy for life!
I agree; I just wish I could stick to it!
landmarker
25-Jun-06, 19:07
I know language is constantly evolving, but I find certain new trends annoying. The use of the word 'of' in place of the word 'have' being a prime example. As in, 'I should of gone home earlier.' ?
Yes, that's one of my bugbears too. All it needs surely is an ounce of thought. It's only annoying to me in the written form, because working class oiks like me are used to 'of 'sounding like 'av' in verbal dialect.
sassylass
25-Jun-06, 23:08
sec'etree for secretary, nucular for nuclear, envira'ment for environment, amount for number "the amount of people nowadays..." yuck! and disinterested when people mean uninterested. An english degree can cause you a lot of stress.....
don't forget libary instead of library arrrrrghhhhhhh
Would this include the use of how instead of why .
That really anoy's me along with jamped instead of jumped.
Dave Taylor
25-Jun-06, 23:48
People who use "should of" or "could of" have mis-heard, or haven't been taught about "should've" used "could've".
My favourite mistake is use of "your" instead of "you're".:(
Is'nt English wonderful, (unless you are learning it as a second language), down here we play draughts and up there you play drafts! Or was that an error with the spell check. We have a Mount Gambier here in South Australia but the Spell check corrected it to Mount Gambia and the Journo didn't know the difference. Sad for the language. Next generation will talk in text. must be my age regards to all robyn
No, we play draughts here as well; Spell-checker has a lot to answer for. I prefer my good old-fashioned Collins!
People who use "should of" or "could of" have mis-heard, or haven't been taught about "should've" used "could've".
My favourite mistake is use of "your" instead of "you're".
By condensing our words we have come a long way since Mr. Shakespeare!:roll:
N.B. I used "we have" instead of "we've" but it will soon pass and I shall lapse into our slang as per usual. :Razz
'I should of gone home earlier.' Hey, that is one of my pet hates too! I think it comes from confusion over "I should have gone home earlier" being shortened to "I should've gone home earlier".
Annoyingly I find myself using some of the modern "signal speak" like flicking two fingers on both hands to indicate quote marks. I can't remember any more just now 'cos ahm gettan' dottled "at this moment in time"!
Another pet hate for me is "pair" being used in the wrong context as in "a pair of tickets".
Tickets do not come in pairs. Gloves, shoes, trousers etc., come in pairs. A ticket can come as a single, or in twos, threes, fours or more.
Agreed. I think some of it comes from the way we shorten things as we speak, so a lot depends on the dialect or slang. One "phrase" which I have never found a direct translation for is the Caithness "Iva now" as in "I'll get that for you iva now" - any ideas?
I too hate "signal speak", but use it & I also detest "meeting speak". I, increasingly, say "touch base" when I mean "meet" :o
Re the tickets - I'm confused here - are they not a pair if they're joined together by perforations, just like the legs of trousers etc are joined by the seam? :lol:
No, we play draughts here as well; Spell-checker has a lot to answer for. I prefer my good old-fashioned Collins!
I'm pleased to hear that Ann. Did nobody notice on Caithness .org front page on June14th 2006 that Hamish won the John Napier Memorial Drafts Competion?
Different to and different from causes argument here.
Of course we use lots of abreviations and short forms and slang too.
regards to all robyn
The Pepsi Challenge
26-Jun-06, 05:48
Grammatically speaking, the way your writing/words/grammar looks/reads/ sounds, all depends on who your audience is.
Agreed. I think some of it comes from the way we shorten things as we speak, so a lot depends on the dialect or slang. One "phrase" which I have never found a direct translation for is the Caithness "Iva now" as in "I'll get that for you iva now" - any ideas?
:lol:
I thought it was iffi now. Direct translation 'if you wait a minute I'll get it just now'. - miss out the middle bit and you get 'if - it - now' shortened to iffi now. Well, after wracking my brains it's the best I can come up with!
I'm pleased to hear that Ann. Did nobody notice on Caithness .org front page on June14th 2006 that Hamish won the John Napier Memorial Drafts Competion?
Different to and different from causes argument here.
Of course we use lots of abreviations and short forms and slang too.
regards to all robyn
Aha, here comes another discussion! Not everything you see on the internet is the truth. After all, a lot of it is just people like you and me putting information on and it is there forever; mis-spellings, grammar, even mis-information etc. ;)
Oh that's another one; a lot of people use ect., instead of etc.
AND definately instead of definitely! And emphasising it as well!
But now we are coming into the realms of the ability to spell so I don't want to hurt anyone's feeling. Ann :)
I thought it was iffi now. Direct translation 'if you wait a minute I'll get it just now'. - miss out the middle bit and you get 'if - it - now' shortened to iffi now. Well, after wracking my brains it's the best I can come up with!
I translate it as "if.........e' now" - "if......... the now". :)
"I too hate "signal speak", but use it & I also detest "meeting speak". I, increasingly, say "touch base" when I mean "meet" :o"
Oops, I thought Touch base meant to get home!
"Re the tickets - I'm confused here - are they not a pair if they're joined together by perforations, just like the legs of trousers etc are joined by the seam?"
Oh Moira, you are in big trouble if your trousers have perforations in the seams! Hehe
Grammatically speaking, the way your writing/words/grammar looks/reads/ sounds, all depends on who your audience is.
Of course you are right Pepsi.
I've noticed (maybe it is only me) that although I speak the Caithness dialect most of the time, I have great difficulty reading it or worse, trying to write it.
(Ah've noticed (mibbe hid's only me) 'at though ah speak e' Caithness dylect most o' 'e time, ah hev an ahful chob readan' hid or worse, tryan' till write id.)
I know language is constantly evolving, but I find certain new trends annoying. The use of the word 'of' in place of the word 'have' being a prime example. As in, 'I should of gone home earlier.' GRRRR. Even adults seem to be doing this. Is this now accepted in schools? Or is our education system seriously letting our youth down?
another that seems to have crept into the language since I was at school is the word 'Jamp' It used to be jumped. However I don't mind that one for some reason.
Anyone else got a pet 'grammaritical' hate?I doubt very much that "should of" would be accepted in schools - because it's plain wrong. As others have pointed out, it surely derives from the incorrect transcription of "should've".
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "jamp". Is this a Caithness thing?
I've often thought of starting a pedagogical thread on written English. It would cover the most common errors we see on this forum, and it would be intended to help those who are interested in improving their written English. I've never had the nerve to do it because it would surely offend some people, and it would be seen as patronising by others. Furthermore, I'm not the most literate person on this forum - there are others who are far more qualified to do such a thing.
Grammatically speaking, the way your writing/words/grammar looks/reads/ sounds, all depends on who your audience is. Absolutely, and that's another reason I'm not sure it's wise to put one's head above the parapet and appear to tell others how they should write. This is a community forum, not an essay-writing competition. It surely has to remain informal and inclusive. But would it be wong to offer help and advice on here?
What do people think? I'm really not sure what I think!
I think Caithnessian dialect should be stopped as it isn't the Queen's English.:roll:
Absolutely, and that's another reason I'm not sure it's wise to put one's head above the parapet and appear to tell others how they should write. This is a community forum, not an essay-writing competition. It surely has to remain informal and inclusive. But would it be wong to offer help and advice on here?
What do people think? I'm really not sure what I think!
I have often thought the same but, as you say, this is a community site and we are all accepted (hopefully) warts and all. There will be regional and colloquial differences in language and phraseology which have to be taken as they are. Some may criticise those with 'correct' use of English as 'posh' or 'snobby' but it is just a different upbringing and retention of the use of the mother tongue - an interesting book, by the way. Written by Bill Bryson.
orkneylass
26-Jun-06, 19:40
Surely there is a difference between dialect and the correct use of language, and also between the written word and spoken dialect? Almost all english speakers have some sort of accent or use some form of dialect, but that does not mean they cannot use english correctly. How about another pet hate "I had went....":cool:
I think Caithnessian dialect should be stopped as it isn't the Queen's English.:roll:
your living in caithness what do you want us to speak like? the ok ya hooray henry type talking about ones self. its the local lingo. get a grip man.
I love dialects. I think they should all be retained and encouraged. However, as someone has already stated, what has that got to do with bad grammer?
your living in caithness what do you want us to speak like? the ok ya hooray henry type talking about ones self. its the local lingo. get a grip man.
I tend to think Reghead is undulging in a bit of a wind-up.
He should 'prenez garde de tomber' as my old Latin master used to say; while I think it is funny, others might not.
I recently visited Alcatraz for a month for a similar wheeze. Nick Nick
Dave Taylor
26-Jun-06, 20:18
We should all have two languages: our local dialect, and one that everyone can understand.
Down here, just north of the Bristol city limits, the local-born folk speak Bristle. One of the quirks of the dialect is the "Bristol L", which causes some nice phrases like: "Ar Monical came back from Austrial with pneumonial".
(Ar=our=oor)
It's difficult to find parking spaces in Bristol, so it's not unusual for folk to use the tightest of spots. That gives us: "Dees gottn where dees cassn backn
assn" meaning "Thee hast got it where thee canst not back it, hast thou not"
or "You've got it where you can't back it out, haven't you"
It all helps to keep local identity safe from outsiders.:eek:
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