The Drunken Duck
24-Jun-10, 15:51
As an "absent parent" I pay CSA/CMEC the required maintenance, which in my case is 20% of my Income after Tax and NI. Now I have recently gone through a stressful period of them sending me numerous letters saying I owed thousands in arrears, without any proof being offered, and then having their caseworkers lying and threatening me on the phone. One of these caseworkers is now being prosecuted for his actions. I have succesfully proved that the arrears are non valid and not due at all. I thought I would drop some pointers I learned that might help others in the same situation.
Stay Calm. Always. Losing your cool is loosing the argument. A firm confident air makes what you say matter. And it makes it more difficult for them to play the "I'm hanging up" card which they will use the second you raise your voice.
They are not your friends. Dont fall for the pally act. They are soulless collectors of cash for the Government. They care not one jot about your kids or whether you have enough to eat, they just want paid. When I pointed out that their claimed arrears would mean I would be unable to pay my rent I was told to "move to a caravan". Get the name of the person you speak to on EVERY call and keep a log. Recording EVERY conversation on a dictaphone is even better, but ALWAYS tell them you are doing so. Its the law and also makes them less liable to threaten and/or lie to you.
Ask for proof of arrears if claimed. Its your right. Ask for your file under the Freedom of Information act. You are entitled to see it and it will show all the comments made about you by staff. Mine is going to be good reading when I drag the caseworker into court. As well as for the vindictive friend of my ex wife who made disgusting and untrue allegations about me in phonecalls to the CSA. She is heading for court too. The CSA will tell you that it will take 40 days to process your FOI request, this is not true, its a delaying tactic and they are actually in breach of regulations by holding it up. Stress that you are NOT refusing to pay, you just want clarification.
Know what you should be paying. Its all there on the CSA site. 15% of NET INCOME for one child, 20% for two and 25% for three or more. NET INCOME is what's left after Income Tax and NI have been deducted.
The "Standing Order" con. This is a favourite. This is where they claim to have sent you a standing order form so you can pay. When it doesnt turn up, and in the majority of cases it wont because they havent sent it, they will then insist they did send it and as "too much time has passed" they will insist you can now only pay by Direct Debit. This gives them carte blanche to take what they want, which was the intention all along. Normally now they just serve a DEO (Deduction of Earnings) order on your employer. This ensures that the CSA can take what they want directly from your employer, and bypass you completly. It is illegal for an employer to refuse. Solution ?? .. get online banking, phone the CSA up and ask for the details over the phone for the standing order and set it up online. If they refuse to give you the details you need .. PRESS THE ISSUE. Because they are about to run the con on you that removes any ability you have to control what you pay.
Threats. The caseworker that threatened me is being prosecuted for it, he went well over the mark. Common threats used are ..
"We have to recover all arrears within two years" .. False. There is no such law but they will imply as much. Ask them outright to state that it is a law and not a CSA guideline. Because thats all it is, a guideline. Dont be intimidated.
"We can take your Passport and or Driving Licence or send you to Prison" .. yes BUT ONLY if you are openly refusing to pay. State that you are NOT doing this and are only contesting their claims as per your rights on any cliamed debt in this country. Then tell them that as they now know that if they repeat it you will regard it as a threat. And further action WILL be taken on that happening.
"There is no need for you to turn up to court for a liability hearing" .. I was told this, it is a lie. You MUST be there to contest any claims. Non attendance means admitting it. Often the CSA turn up and offer NO evidence at all. This is ILLEGAL and against your rights. They try to get you to NOT turn up to make their job easier. Attend and use the Duty Solicitor to save cash. You will NOT get legal aid to fight the CSA.
"I suggets you get a loan/credit card/" .. If any caseworker suggest this as a way to pay of their claimed arrears ask for their name. Then ask them if they are licensed to give Independent Financial Advice. When they say no inform them you are reporting them to the Financial Standards authority. Then do it. They WILL act on it.
Now all the above is well and good but accept one thing when dealing with the CSA. They go after those who will pay with a vengeance. Easy targets basically. And under the current laws as an absent father you have less rights than a criminal. If you drink drive you are entitled to a trial. The CSA dont need to prove anything these days, unlike the Police. The Standing order con is a case in point. If they say they sent a letter it is beyond reproach, I have a friend who sent his assesment in by recorderd delivery which was signed for, the CSA claimed it had not been received. They still do despite a reciept for the date and time it was !!. They have succesfully got laws passed that allow them to simply not bother discussing your case with you and go straight to your employer or just drag you into court on the flimsiest of evidence in certain scenarios. They will try to drag you into those scenarios. The new laws have effectively neutered your ability to contest them as per the old rules. The ony way to ensure you are assesed and treated fairly is to KNOW what limited powers you still have and then USE them.
Oh .. and keep your sense of humour. Dont buy into the deadbeat dad hype, the percentage of absent parents who dont pay for their children is about 30% for both sexes. Pay for your kid(s) and hold your head up becaue you are doing so. Also ensure you go after anyone at the CSA trying to con, threaten or slander you with a vengeance. Trust me .. they do not like it.
Stay Calm. Always. Losing your cool is loosing the argument. A firm confident air makes what you say matter. And it makes it more difficult for them to play the "I'm hanging up" card which they will use the second you raise your voice.
They are not your friends. Dont fall for the pally act. They are soulless collectors of cash for the Government. They care not one jot about your kids or whether you have enough to eat, they just want paid. When I pointed out that their claimed arrears would mean I would be unable to pay my rent I was told to "move to a caravan". Get the name of the person you speak to on EVERY call and keep a log. Recording EVERY conversation on a dictaphone is even better, but ALWAYS tell them you are doing so. Its the law and also makes them less liable to threaten and/or lie to you.
Ask for proof of arrears if claimed. Its your right. Ask for your file under the Freedom of Information act. You are entitled to see it and it will show all the comments made about you by staff. Mine is going to be good reading when I drag the caseworker into court. As well as for the vindictive friend of my ex wife who made disgusting and untrue allegations about me in phonecalls to the CSA. She is heading for court too. The CSA will tell you that it will take 40 days to process your FOI request, this is not true, its a delaying tactic and they are actually in breach of regulations by holding it up. Stress that you are NOT refusing to pay, you just want clarification.
Know what you should be paying. Its all there on the CSA site. 15% of NET INCOME for one child, 20% for two and 25% for three or more. NET INCOME is what's left after Income Tax and NI have been deducted.
The "Standing Order" con. This is a favourite. This is where they claim to have sent you a standing order form so you can pay. When it doesnt turn up, and in the majority of cases it wont because they havent sent it, they will then insist they did send it and as "too much time has passed" they will insist you can now only pay by Direct Debit. This gives them carte blanche to take what they want, which was the intention all along. Normally now they just serve a DEO (Deduction of Earnings) order on your employer. This ensures that the CSA can take what they want directly from your employer, and bypass you completly. It is illegal for an employer to refuse. Solution ?? .. get online banking, phone the CSA up and ask for the details over the phone for the standing order and set it up online. If they refuse to give you the details you need .. PRESS THE ISSUE. Because they are about to run the con on you that removes any ability you have to control what you pay.
Threats. The caseworker that threatened me is being prosecuted for it, he went well over the mark. Common threats used are ..
"We have to recover all arrears within two years" .. False. There is no such law but they will imply as much. Ask them outright to state that it is a law and not a CSA guideline. Because thats all it is, a guideline. Dont be intimidated.
"We can take your Passport and or Driving Licence or send you to Prison" .. yes BUT ONLY if you are openly refusing to pay. State that you are NOT doing this and are only contesting their claims as per your rights on any cliamed debt in this country. Then tell them that as they now know that if they repeat it you will regard it as a threat. And further action WILL be taken on that happening.
"There is no need for you to turn up to court for a liability hearing" .. I was told this, it is a lie. You MUST be there to contest any claims. Non attendance means admitting it. Often the CSA turn up and offer NO evidence at all. This is ILLEGAL and against your rights. They try to get you to NOT turn up to make their job easier. Attend and use the Duty Solicitor to save cash. You will NOT get legal aid to fight the CSA.
"I suggets you get a loan/credit card/" .. If any caseworker suggest this as a way to pay of their claimed arrears ask for their name. Then ask them if they are licensed to give Independent Financial Advice. When they say no inform them you are reporting them to the Financial Standards authority. Then do it. They WILL act on it.
Now all the above is well and good but accept one thing when dealing with the CSA. They go after those who will pay with a vengeance. Easy targets basically. And under the current laws as an absent father you have less rights than a criminal. If you drink drive you are entitled to a trial. The CSA dont need to prove anything these days, unlike the Police. The Standing order con is a case in point. If they say they sent a letter it is beyond reproach, I have a friend who sent his assesment in by recorderd delivery which was signed for, the CSA claimed it had not been received. They still do despite a reciept for the date and time it was !!. They have succesfully got laws passed that allow them to simply not bother discussing your case with you and go straight to your employer or just drag you into court on the flimsiest of evidence in certain scenarios. They will try to drag you into those scenarios. The new laws have effectively neutered your ability to contest them as per the old rules. The ony way to ensure you are assesed and treated fairly is to KNOW what limited powers you still have and then USE them.
Oh .. and keep your sense of humour. Dont buy into the deadbeat dad hype, the percentage of absent parents who dont pay for their children is about 30% for both sexes. Pay for your kid(s) and hold your head up becaue you are doing so. Also ensure you go after anyone at the CSA trying to con, threaten or slander you with a vengeance. Trust me .. they do not like it.