View Full Version : Illegal Immigration
Rapidly becoming a "hot-button" issue here in the States. Being an immigrant here, myself, and knowing what it took to get a visa, I guess I'm rather angry that the illegals can come in and get benefits that I have always had to pay for since day one. I had to earn everything, no freebies. I have been (peripherally) aware that there are a lot of (recent?) middle European immigrants in Britain. Are they illegal, and what do you think of them? Not trying to start an argument, but several of my American friends were really curious, so I said I'd post here. Thanks to all.
Since April 2004 citizens of Member States of the European Union have had the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States. Some countries have had transition periods to reduce the effects of migration but UK hasn’t as far as I’m aware.
This EU policy has thrown up some controversial anomalies, i.e. parents working in the UK can claim Child Benefit for children they have left in their country of origin.
The UK’s main problem seems to be the number of migrants who choose to attempt to enter the UK from South Asia and Sub-Sahara Africa to claim asylum. For many these asylum seekers are the real bone of contention.
This is a complex issue and I’m sure there will be posts arguing different points of view.
Rapidly becoming a "hot-button" issue here in the States. Being an immigrant here, myself, and knowing what it took to get a visa, I guess I'm rather angry that the illegals can come in and get benefits that I have always had to pay for since day one. I had to earn everything, no freebies. I have been (peripherally) aware that there are a lot of (recent?) middle European immigrants in Britain. Are they illegal, and what do you think of them? Not trying to start an argument, but several of my American friends were really curious, so I said I'd post here. Thanks to all.
I shall withdraw my remarks, as this thread was about 'ILLEGAL Immigration'.
I am North of you and we are rapidly seeing the same thing. Took 12 months to get to Canada from the UK in the 70's., but we are allowing so many unskilled...&...refugees in, it cannot continue.
Of course, if I lived in a poor Country I would want to do better, but there is a process, thus my 12 months of waiting.
If they are "allowed in" then they are not illegal immigrants.
If they are "refugees" then they are not illegal immigrants.
If they are "allowed in" then they are not illegal immigrants.
If they are "refugees" then they are not illegal immigrants.
I thank you for your correction. I shall in future adhere to your byeline.
....would never have known without your prompt correction.....
Gordon Bonnet
22-Jun-10, 17:18
If they are "allowed in" then they are not illegal immigrants.
If they are "refugees" then they are not illegal immigrants.
Quite right.
They should be welcomed with open arms to do the jobs the workshy & feckless immigrants will not do. Sometimes legal status can only incubate complacency and over-reliance on the state - which must, to some seem like nirvana.
Only those illegal immigrants who tumble out of the backs of lorries an an increasingly infrequent basis give the others a bad name.
Those who choose Britain for asylum, have chosen very well indeed and I'm hoping those welcoming posters like Ju will persist in their support of a continuing trend of 'open all hours' ....we need carrot pickers, and farm hands...not to mention waiters and their female equivalent. If the odd nuclear physicist, or veternarian slips in too then all the better. They'll probably get jobs on the buses.
They may even find themselves ferrying failed second generation immigrants and bone idle Brits to remote RAF camps to be de-briefed before deportation via Hercules.
I thank you for your correction. I shall in future adhere to your byeline.
And there was me thinking asylum seekers were supposed to be granted asylum in the first "safe" country they reach.
Wonder what one of our very own orgers has to say on the subject, having moved from Boston, where one in five of the population are foreign.
Quite right.
They should be welcomed with open arms to do the jobs the workshy & feckless immigrants will not do. Sometimes legal status can only incubate complacency and over-reliance on the state - which must, to some seem like nirvana.
Only those illegal immigrants who tumble out of the backs of lorries an an increasingly infrequent basis give the others a bad name.
Those who choose Britain for asylum, have chosen very well indeed and I'm hoping those welcoming posters like Ju will persist in their support of a continuing trend of 'open all hours' ....we need carrot pickers, and farm hands...not to mention waiters and their female equivalent. If the odd nuclear physicist, or veternarian slips in too then all the better. They'll probably get jobs on the buses.
They may even find themselves ferrying failed second generation immigrants and bone idle Brits to remote RAF camps to be de-briefed before deportation via Hercules.
I have to admit, that was part of my thoughts/ one day this whole thing is going to blow up in our faces/ whatever Country we are in.
John Little
22-Jun-10, 19:58
Who invented countries?
I blame the French!
Let's blame the immigrants for all our problems. What a good idea. Has noone ever thought of it before?
Who invented countries?
I think the modern concept of country came out of the Treaty of Westphalia of 1648. The who answer would be a little bit of French, German, and Dutch.
Rapidly becoming a "hot-button" issue here in the States. Being an immigrant here, myself, and knowing what it took to get a visa, I guess I'm rather angry that the illegals can come in and get benefits that I have always had to pay for since day one. I had to earn everything, no freebies. I have been (peripherally) aware that there are a lot of (recent?) middle European immigrants in Britain. Are they illegal, and what do you think of them? Not trying to start an argument, but several of my American friends were really curious, so I said I'd post here. Thanks to all.
I'm a legal immigrant in the UK having gone through the whole visa process twice now. Once to arrive and then two years later to stay.
But immigration is in my genes. My grandparents immigrated to Canada from Scotland and from the USA. And the American grandmother's ancestors had immigrated from Germany. If it hadn't been for immigration into Canada over the past 200 years there would have been no one around to name the cities after European places. Regina would still be 'Pile of Bones'.
John Little
22-Jun-10, 21:52
I have changed my mind.
I blame Henry VIII
Good job there is always somebody around to be blamed. I hate taking the blame myself.
Should I have stayed in Germany ?
Or is migrating from european countries not such a bad thing these days?
Let's blame the immigrants for all our problems. What a good idea. Has noone ever thought of it before?
You mean like this women from the org who made the following post.
I have pretty strong views on the UK's immigration laws too and I personally believe that we should shut the doors to everyone until we can get the level of current leeches under control and have turfed out those that are here illegally. Only then we should start letting a trickle back in but with very strict rules and regulations.
Let's give Britain back to the British and do what is best for the British.
Bigot is just a word, if someone chose to call me that because they don't like my opinion I really wouldn't give a stuff.
back to the original question ...
in the US they've a big problem with mexicans etc crossing the border illegally, some bring with them a strong work ethic others bring drugs and guns.
over here we've got a similar problem, some work illegally, some get status and contribute, some get benefits and work the system (just like many brits).
a lot of immigrants are sold the myth that the UK , US etc are the lands of milk and honey and many are duped by people traffickers into paying a large amount to be taken here/there.
many come here with good intentions of finding work and supporting their family back home, some might be sponging freeloaders, but lets not tar them all with the same brush.
Metalattakk
23-Jun-10, 00:45
I have changed my mind.
I blame Henry VIII
I blame Maggie Thatcher.
And I blame 'the parents'.
And most of all, I blame Maggie Thatcher's parents. ;)
And most of all, I blame Maggie Thatcher's parents. ;)
The best ever advert for abortion
The best ever advert for abortion
er actually that would be this ....
http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/two-fugly-men.jpg
Aaldtimer
23-Jun-10, 03:16
er actually that would be this ....
http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/two-fugly-men.jpg
Why's that then?:(
oldmarine
23-Jun-10, 04:38
My ancestor immigrated to North America (Philadelphia to be exact) from Germany in 1738. I always thought he was legal. How else can this be stated?
My ancestor immigrated to North America (Philadelphia to be exact) from Germany in 1738. I always thought he was legal. How else can this be stated?
The Native American population might have thought differently :confused.
Out somewhere relatively remote in Northern Carolina, there resides part of a very powerful company (Smithfield foods): a pork plant. One of the biggest in the world. This company has powerful political lobbyists. This company has used illegal immigrants in more than one way. They employ them as a cheap source of labour in an industry where burn out is so quick, and where the (poor) animal welfare standards are higher than human welfare at work. They use them (illegal immigrants)to vote against the formation of unions within the factory. Then they use their fragile status ( as the illegal immigrants that they are) to easily get rid of those not performing to the required standard or those that they consider trouble makers for not complaining/raising issues, by calling in immigration raids.
The consequences to the company for hiring illegal immigrants was derisory. They easily got rid of whome they wanted to, yet benefit from their work while it is convinient.
This is not the only company doing this. As long as it is worthwhile to a company to carry out their business in this way, they will. As long as at a political level, legislation is not changed so that there is a real punishment for the use of illegal labour, things will carry on as they are. That creates a market for illegal immigrant labour. Its all economics: there is a market for illegal immigrants, they will immigrate to fill that need. It makes big influencial companies money. And money talks, especially in America and especially politically.
I was delighted to read that the fact that I can understand the meaning of words got me labelled as an "illegal immigrant hugging liberal do-gooder". It's a label, and as far as labels go, it could be worse. I do wonder though how such an in depth analises could have been extracted from what I did post. If you are interested in knowing what I feel about illegal immigration and immigration in general, carry on reading or just jump to a conclusion (it is some poster's sport of excellence only too often!).
I don't like or agree with illegal immigration (shock horror!). I understand why some people feel compelled to it as they just want to improve their lives. But it allows us ( us as in the developed countries) to use people the way we would not contemplate using animals. We all want to eat cheap strawberries, but we don't want the consequences or even to think about what those strawberries cost in human terms. Legal migration affords people a certain ammount of protection against exploitation. The thing is some people cannot tell the difference between immigration and illegal immigration. And it is very important that you do know the difference.
As for the migration of people: I have been a (legal) Immigrant for more than 3/4 of my life. I have lived on two different continents and in 6 different countries. I was born in a country where both my parents were immigrants, was moved to a country who historically was one of the first colonization powers of the world and am now living in a country that over history (including recent history) has had several waves of people emmigrating. It is the way of the world. The only reason populations came to exist outside of Africa is because of the migrating behaviour of our ancestors. There is not one person reading this who has not felt the effects of immigration in their family at some point. So pointing to all "them immigrants" as the reason for unemployment being high is just finding a scape goat for the difficulties we feel in our lives.
So pointing to all "them immigrants" as the reason for unemployment being high is just finding a scape goat for the difficulties we feel in our lives.
Absolutely - Immigrants have been blamed throughout certainly the 20th century for problems of unemployment and its just dull. There appear to be no new arguments. Employers who exploit illegal immigrants should be removed from their business and all their profits be diverted to the public purse to be used for support for "legal" asylum seekers and refugees.
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