View Full Version : Marsel Sinclair
Does anyone have any information about a Marsel Innes (nee Sinclair) born abt 1777 only her father named on birth certificate?, John Sinclair, is this usual. Married a James Innes 13/03/1798 in Latheron. Unusual christian name? anyone any ideas where this name may of come from as it doesnt appear to be scottish to me? Their daughter Jane b. 13/04/1799 marries William Miller on 24/02/1825 in Latheron. Their son, Temple, another strange name?b.15/05/1831, Latheron, was my maternal gggrandfather. He married a Helen Sutherland in High Church, Glasgow on 4/11/1864. Could anyone enlighten me on the strange christian names? on any ther details about Marsel as I have hit a brick wall. Thanks
Does anyone have any information about a Marsel Innes (nee Sinclair) born abt 1777 only her father named on birth certificate?, John Sinclair, is this usual. Married a James Innes 13/03/1798 in Latheron. Unusual christian name? anyone any ideas where this name may of come from as it doesnt appear to be scottish to me? Their daughter Jane b. 13/04/1799 marries William Miller on 24/02/1825 in Latheron. Their son, Temple, another strange name?b.15/05/1831, Latheron, was my maternal gggrandfather. He married a Helen Sutherland in High Church, Glasgow on 4/11/1864. Could anyone enlighten me on the strange christian names? on any ther details about Marsel as I have hit a brick wall. Thanks
I've come across a few Temples in Latheron, there's a Temple F. Sinclair from Dunbeath burried in Latheron Old cemetery and a McKay and a Campbel in the new. There are six Temples in the 1841 census for Latheron.
Haven't come across a Marsel that I remember, sounds French to me, as in Marseille.
Thanks for that Fred. I had wondered if Marsel may of had a french background. Wonder how she ended up in Caithness, fishing industry maybe? More searching I guess.
Temple: a few of them about then? My grandfather also had the name Temple but everyone knew him as Ted so I grew up thinking his name was Edward. It wasnt till I started researching that I discovered his true name. On asking my aunt about this she said that he was rather embarassed by it and so went by the name Ted. Thanks again.
It is frequent at that stage for only the father's name to appear on the birth registration. Often the minister appears to have forgotten who the mother is when he fills in the page on the Parish Register and sometimes leaves a blank space as if he hopes to recall it or find out later.
Marcel for men or Marcelle for women is a common name in France. When people gave their names to the minister registering the birth they wrote down what they heard, so often the names appear in various forms depending on who was writing it down eg Johan, Joanne, Johanne etc.
Marion
Thanks for the input Marion, this makes the puzzle more intreging
in 1841 there are 2 Margery Innes - g/mother & g/daughter!. In one translation of the census 1841 the 13 year old is listed as Marsery. In the one below she is Margery aged 13. living with her g/mother Innes. see same g/mother in 1861 below. I would imagine on birth reg margery could be misread. Also in 1841 some of the Sinclair children may well be relations of Margery b late 1700s
See also 1861 Census for Semple not Temple aged 24 with his widowed mother Jane. Hope this helps. Do you recognize the Sutherland family in 1861. Let me know. I will see if I can find other Innes in 1841.
Piece: SCT1841/38 Place: Latheron-Caithness Enumeration District: 18
Civil Parish: Latheron Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Lybster
Folio: 0 Page: 1
Address: ROADSIDE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
INNES Margerey F 60 Innkeeper Caithness
SINCLAIR Catherine F 25 Independent Caithness
SINCLAIR George M 8 Caithness
SINCLAIR Cathrine F 6 Caithness
SINCLAIR Jane F 4 Caithness
SINCLAIR Isabella F 2 Caithness
SINCLAIR Elizabeth F 50 Female Servant Caithness
SUTHERLAND Margt. F 15 Female Servant Caithness
MILLER James M 15 Agricultural Labourer Caithness
SUTHERLAND Donald M 7 Agricultural Labourer Caithness
INNES Margery F 13 Female Servant Caithness
STEPHEN William M 40 Road Contractor Caithness
in 1861 in Latheron there is a
Marjory Innes aged 68. staying is grandmother! Sames address as 1841
This could be young Margory b 1829 m to Donald Sutherland
Address ROADSIDE LATHERON
SUTHERLAND Donald Head M M 41 Farmer of 12ac CAI Latheron
SUTHERLAND Marjory Wife M F 32 O CAI Latheron
SUTHERLAND James Son O M 10 Scholar CAI Latheron
SUTHERLAND Elizabeth Daur O F 8 Scholar CAI Latheron
SUTHERLAND John Son O M 6 Scholar CAI Latheron
SUTHERLAND Samuel Son O M 4 O CAI Latheron
SUTHERLAND Donald Son O M 2 O CAI Latheron
INNES Marjory Granma O F 86 From. Innkeeper CAI Latheron
MILLER Jane Head W F 62 O CAI Lybster
MILLER Semple Son U M 24 Tailor CAI Lybster
1861 Smerlie Lybster.
for got to add to last email
Tricia
some more info - hope it helps.
watch for naming patterns of Children in those days in Caithness.
1st son and 2nd daughter after paternal g/parents.
2nd son and 1st daug after Maternal g/parents. Not always but a useful guide.
1841 Census
Piece: SCT1841/38 Place: Latheron-Caithness Enumeration District: 18
Civil Parish: Latheron Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Lybster
Folio: 0 Page: 20
Address: Smerley
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MILLER Jean F 40 Hemp Spinner Caithness
MILLER Thos. M 14 Fisher Caithness
MILLER George M 12 Caithness
MILLER John M 8 Caithness
MILLER William M 7 Caithness
MILLER Temple M 5 Caithness
SINCLAIR Jean F 30 Hemp Spinner Caithness
births were there 2 Temple perhaps 1st one dying infant.
The one on census would be b 1836.
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MILLER Family
Mother: JANE INNES
TEMPLE FREDERICK SINCLAIR MILLER
Male
Event(s):
Birth: 03 MAY 1831
Christening: 15 MAY 1831 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TEMPLE MILLER
Male
Event(s):
Birth: 14 APR 1836
Christening: 24 APR 1836 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland
-------------------
Both on microfiche for Caithness
Batch C110384
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Thanks for that Fred. I had wondered if Marsel may of had a french background. Wonder how she ended up in Caithness, fishing industry maybe? More searching I guess.
I did a bit more searching through my database and found a 14 Marsels born or married in Latheron, 7 male and 7 female, the last one in 1807. I can't find any of them on the 1841 census anywhere in Caithness.
I'm wondering if name became unpopular in the Napoleonic wars.
This is a version of the gaelic for marjory-marsaili-hope this helps!
Hi to mamacal-
are you still checking in!
I have info on a Temple Frederick Sinclair b 1853 in Dunbeath Caithness- died 1918.
Parents Temple Frederick Sinclair b 1812 app and Margaret Finlayson b 1820 app( Married 29 NOV 1839 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland They had 14 children).
Young temple b 1873 he emigrated to Canada. Married x 2 there and died there.
Is this in your family - the first name is not very common - and you have Sinclair in your line (as per previous messages)
This is the Sinclair family in 1861 - Latheron Parish
SINCLAIR Temple Head M M 48 Fisherman CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Margaret Wife M F 39 Do Wife CAI Lybster
SINCLAIR John Son U M 20 Fisheman & Ag. Lab. CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Margaret Daur U F 18 Dom. & Ag. Work CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Francis Son O M 16 Ag. Work CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Janet Daur O F 13 Scholar CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Temple Son O M 8 Scholar CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Maryann Daur O F 5 Scholar CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Donald Son O M 2 O CAI Latheron
Thanks for all the help everyone. Its been really helpful and im going to look into all the information in more detail. I have found links in the census info that you posted Tricia, so thanks again for that. If I need any more help i'll know where to come. Also if anyone else would like to comment please feel free to add to this thread.
Peterd500
07-Jan-08, 03:33
Temple Frederick SINCLAIR married to Margaret FINLAYSON was apparently the son of Francis SINCLAIR & Margaret HORNE, son of George SINCLAIR & MArgaret CORMACK.
Margaret HORNE was apparently the daughter of Alexander HORN & Helen MILLER. Maybe Helen connects up with Jane MILLER somehow.
However, Temple Frederick SINCLAIR was also the name of a son of Patrick SINCLAIR 5th of Lybster, the latter founding the village of Lybster. Maybe there could be family connections with him. Or, it could be that this Temple, being prominent, might have had children in other families named after him out of respect rather than for family reasons. This happened with George Dunbar SINCLAIR who was named out of his family for a prominent DUNBAR of the day (according to GDS's son Thomas SINCLAIR M.A. Edin.).
Temple Frederick SINCLAIR who married Margaret FINLAYSON had a sister Francisina SINCLAIR (aka Frances Ann, Fanny) who married George SINCLAIR the son of Alexander SINCLAIR (who was at Torranrevach in Mid Clyth), son of james SINCLAIR the chamberlain Sarclet), son of Donald SINCLAIR the sailor.
I recently contacted descendants in Christchurch, NZ of George & Francisina, two of them descended from their daughter Sydney and her son Donald/Daniel, and another who descends from their daughter Margaret who married Sutherland Gow CLASS, one of CLASS family at Lybster.
Sutherland & Margaret's daughter Lillias CLASS married Alexander Sinclair CLYNE and it was these two who went to NZ. Alexander's parents were Alexander CLYNE & Catherine SINCLAIR at Latheron parish.
peter
One of my Hunter connections married Mary Ann Sinclair, daughter of Temple Frederick Sinclair and Margaret Finlayson in 1882, though she seems to have died before 1891. I don't think there was family, but the family info is useful. Thanks.
Linda Sinclair
09-May-09, 09:19
Hi to mamacal-
are you still checking in!
I have info on a Temple Frederick Sinclair b 1853 in Dunbeath Caithness- died 1918.
Parents Temple Frederick Sinclair b 1812 app and Margaret Finlayson b 1820 app( Married 29 NOV 1839 Latheron, Caithness, Scotland They had 14 children).
Young temple b 1873 he emigrated to Canada. Married x 2 there and died there.
Is this in your family - the first name is not very common - and you have Sinclair in your line (as per previous messages)
This is the Sinclair family in 1861 - Latheron Parish
SINCLAIR Temple Head M M 48 Fisherman CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Margaret Wife M F 39 Do Wife CAI Lybster
SINCLAIR John Son U M 20 Fisheman & Ag. Lab. CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Margaret Daur U F 18 Dom. & Ag. Work CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Francis Son O M 16 Ag. Work CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Janet Daur O F 13 Scholar CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Temple Son O M 8 Scholar CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Maryann Daur O F 5 Scholar CAI Latheron
SINCLAIR Donald Son O M 2 O CAI Latheron
Hi Tricia
This Temple Frederick SINCLAIR is my gg grandfather. I know the barest details about him e.g. the names of his children (from Census etc); when he died and even that his gravesite is in the Old Latheron Cemetry. Thanks for the information about his son Temple who emigrated to Canada. I know his father's name was Francis Sinclair and mother was Margaret Horne (from Temple's Death Certificate).
Do you know any more about him or the family? Would love to hear from you. linda.sinclair@vodafone.co.nz
Linda Sinclair
NEW ZEALAND
Hi Linda.
I don't so far directly relate to this family .
Temple b 1853 was born at Carroy, Dunbeath 3 Feb 1853. 3rd son of Temple Frederick Sinclair a cooper and his wife Margaret Finlayson who had total 7 daughters and 7 sons.
2 daug 1 son died in childhood.
Linda the above is taken from a book I have which of course is copyright - I posted details of it on a Bain discussion recently: You may be able to get a copy - it makes very interesting reading on young Temple who emigrated. No further mention of his parents except that Temple jnr returned home for a short period mid 1880s to visit his father in Balnatink, Dunbeath. ( I may have a photo of the old ruined house- will try to copy later)
INVENTORS AND ENGINEERS OF CAITHNESS
by Robert P Gunn - 1998 reprinted 2004
Whittles Publishing (Latheronwheel)
ISBN 1-870325-02-8
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~whittl/main.html
26 pages of this are devoted to Alex Bain 1810 - 1877
Other inventors in the book
Dane Sinclair 1852 -1930
Neil Leitch 1865 -1923
Donald Brown 1879 -1953
James Bremner 1784 - 1856
Temple Frederick Sinclair 1853 -1918 Railroad Engineer and Harbour Builder.
Linda
Which child of Temple and Margaret is your line?
Tricia
born a MORE in Wick
I have a Johan Miller b c 1875 in Latheron who married Alexander Matheson 1883-1923
they had a son Temple Miller Matheson in 1911 who died in 1912
Perhaps Temple Miller 1836 was her father?
Temple Miller and Helen Sutherland had a daughter Johan Mckay Miller born 1874, Latheron.
c110383 on IGI
they also had
a boy maybe two 1865 one may have died unnamed
a boy 1869
Helen 1866 - 1866
Helen 1867 married John Nicol son Temple Nicol 1894 in Aberdeen
William 1870
Jane 1872
Mamie
Linda Sinclair
03-Jun-09, 11:05
Hi Tricia
Temple Frederick SINCLAIR and Margaret FINLAYSON had a son called Francis Finlayson SINCLAIR born about 1846 in Latheron. He is my great grandfather. He married Isabella SINCLAIR 12 April 1872 in Dunbeath. They moved to Glasgow in 1882 and he became a police constable. He died 3 March 1895 in Glasgow leaving a daughter, Isabella and a son, Francis who is my grandfather.
Thanks for that info about the book.
Linda
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