probation?? or jail ?!!

[onecalledk]

just wondered the thoughts of people to this newstory, where a couple were given probation for the abuse of 3 children..... it seems the couple are heartbroken and the man is devoutly religious.... so which religion would that be that states you must BEAT your children .....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/10351843.stm

sickening .....

K

[John Little]

I do not know of any religion that states you must beat your children. The religion is a bit of a red herring in the report because it is irrelevant to the case except that it implies the man has a deep morality.

It is normal in Nigeria to beat your children.

If you do not do so then you are considered a bad parent because you are allowing them to grow up uncorrected.

This is more of a clash of culture.

It could be argued that by coming to live in Britain there is an unspoken contract to abide by British norms and laws, but again it's beside the point because this incident has taken place.

Gaol is not appropriate here.
What might be appropriate is a compulsory attendance at some sort of course which taught and supported the appropriate behaviour, norms and laws of the country you intend to live in.

But I doubt it exists- so it will probably be gaol, appropriate or not.

[onecalledk]

he got probation. Thats it. Its "normal" just is not justified. Who says its "normal " in Nigeria to beat children?

There is a fine line between chastising children and beating them. Its high time that people who came to live in this country abided by the LAWS in this country ......

Surely there should be some world wide law that prohibits the beating of ANYONE ??!

sigh ......

K

[John Little]

[quote=onecalledkWho says its "normal " in Nigeria to beat children?
[/quote]

Why I do.

I have come across it many many times.

Why should I lie to you?

[onecalledk]

sorry, I didnt mean to infer that you had lied. I am more than aware of the terrible treatment of children and women in different cultures and what is "acceptable" in these countries.

I was just thinking out loud that it shouldnt be acceptable and even more so in the UK where something CAN and SHOULD be done to punish those that do this to children when living here......

Whereas we (ie the human race) cannot solve everything in every country we should perhaps try to sort it in the country we live in. The report says they were put on probation, worryingly it does not state what happened with regards to the childrens welfare, were they taken into care for example .....

K

[John Little]

There is a problem with that of course.
Whilst I generally agree with your approach I cannot help but think that we have little to teach the world in the raising and care of children.

I recall that after the Damilola Taylor murder his father came over from Nigeria and made a statement wondering how our country could not control its children.

With gangs of feral youth prowling council estates etc I sometimes think that we could, and should speak very small on such matters for fears of being thought culturally arrogant.

[onecalledk]

I have a huge problem with the physical chastisement of children. We CANNOT instil discipline in our children this way and then tell them its wrong to hit others, that is confusing for the child.

The people in this newstory went beyond chastisement of children. The woman broke the childs bones. That is not being told off that is physical assault.

Perhaps the out of control mentality that is spreading through the young people today is BECAUSE of what has happened to them as children. It may not be acceptable in society to physically punish your children but it will not stop those who BATTER their children continuing to do so.....

There is a difference between physically chastising a child and beating them. That is where I am going with this thread.

The violence that is so prevailent in todays world starts at home, a child is born innocent until the world is unleashed on him/her. Its what the child sees and hears that shapes said child.

THose poor children have not to only cope with a trusted adult assaulting them but also the culture they are being brought up in saying its ok .....

Culture is something that society hides behind. To break a childs bones is wrong in ANY culture ......

K

[badger]

This couple obviously took beating much too far but I can believe that this is how they were brought up and would consider they were doing the right thing in light of their own culture. I agree with John that we are in no position to take the moral high ground given the neglect and abuse of so many British children. Many countries are just as shocked by the drink and drug addicted, immoral young of this country as we are of this physical violence.

I don't know if you have ever watched one of those World's Strictest Parents programmes but when loutish, rude, lazy British teenagers are sent to live in a strict religious family in another country, whether it be Africa, India or America, it seems to do them the world of good and they return happier. The families they are sent to are genuinely shocked by these teenagers' attitudes. I'm sure there is input to make good TV but there must be some basis of truth.

Abuse takes many forms and giving in to children all the time, failing to teach them any respect, leaving them to spend time with computer or tv instead of with their parents, robbing them of childhood by forcing them to grow up too fast, ignoring their appalling educational standards - these result in the unhappy children and young adults we are producing.

[Dog-eared]

Thurd world into Britain = trouble with interfacing.

[horseman]

Abuse takes many forms and giving in to children all the time, failing to teach them any respect, leaving them to spend time with computer or tv instead of with their parents, robbing them of childhood by forcing them to grow up too fast, ignoring their appalling educational standards - these result in the unhappy children and young adults we are producing.


To be sure that is a place to be,but it not where I want to be.-your latter comments do not equate to better instruction or wholesome betterness if I may express it like that.Far to many negatives there badger- yes we do need to impress an express adult standards, but the kids must have what we had to-the right to use or misuse the tv an pc- an that has very little to do with their educational standards. You may be entering the realm of what a child may an may not be be allowed into! an who can really interpret that! -not me for one- we all live our own lives, I remember when I lost my virginity- an I was a child(.sorry for that)

[series2A]

I have a huge problem with the physical chastisement of children. We CANNOT instil discipline in our children this way and then tell them its wrong to hit others, that is confusing for the child.

The people in this newstory went beyond chastisement of children. The woman broke the childs bones. That is not being told off that is physical assault.

Perhaps the out of control mentality that is spreading through the young people today is BECAUSE of what has happened to them as children. It may not be acceptable in society to physically punish your children but it will not stop those who BATTER their children continuing to do so.....

There is a difference between physically chastising a child and beating them. That is where I am going with this thread.

The violence that is so prevailent in todays world starts at home, a child is born innocent until the world is unleashed on him/her. Its what the child sees and hears that shapes said child.

THose poor children have not to only cope with a trusted adult assaulting them but also the culture they are being brought up in saying its ok .....

Culture is something that society hides behind. To break a childs bones is wrong in ANY culture ......

K

Well said.
Trouble is 40 years ago in this country it was normal for parents, police officers and teachers to hit children as it was seen back then that if a person of authruoity hit you then you had done something wrong, child abuse was unheard of then.
Fortunatley we have moved on, but other countries have not.
I'm not saying that it should be accepted just because in other parts of the world it's the norm, but better education of the parents on communication and interaction would be better than just throwing them into jail, but due to the pressures on SS I doubt this will be done.

[wicker8]

Well said.
Trouble is 40 years ago in this country it was normal for parents, police officers and teachers to hit children as it was seen back then that if a person of authruoity hit you then you had done something wrong, child abuse was unheard of then.
Fortunatley we have moved on, but other countries have not.
I'm not saying that it should be accepted just because in other parts of the world it's the norm, but better education of the parents on communication and interaction would be better than just throwing them into jail, but due to the pressures on SS I doubt this will be done.very good point

[squidge]

I do not agree with what these parents have been doing to their children at all, however I do not think that jail is the right place for them. There may very well be a lot of love in the family as well and I hope that social workers are working with this family to ensure they learn and use other forms of discipline. I hope that they are not taking their children from them and placing them into "care" because it seems that they are likely to have less life chances in the care system than with their ( appropriately supported ) parents.

I hope that this is not used to fuel the argument against parents smacking their children.