View Full Version : Foxes
is there anyone out there doing pest control? We are inundated with these pests and could do with some control.
I was going to say is there anyone out there shooting these b----y things but the pc brigade wouldn't like it.
It's time to allow farmers and country folk to get on with culling foxes. If that means dashing about the countryside in red coats in company with lots of beagles then so be it.
I've seen the damage foxes do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.
I've seen the damage foxes do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.
That's not actually what happens - that is human perception of an event. Take the example of a chicken coop... Foxes are clever - if there is a mass of easy prey they will kill it all and hide what it can't eat for when pickings are slimmer. A fox that didn't do this would be at a disadvantage.
What actually happens is the fox raids the coop and bites off all the heads because the brain is the most nutritious part of the bird. The fox will then remove the bodies one by one. The reason it looks like the fox has killed them all and left is because they usually get disturbed before they are finished.
The majority of rural foxes will not attempt to break into a chicken coop - it is a dangerous undertaking. The ones that tend to do so are the ones that are old or sick (easy to catch food is worth the risk of being caught) or the foxes that have become humanised and lost their fear (foxes may be cute but feeding them doesn't help the farmers). It the pre-ban days the foxes that tended to get caught were these same foxes - the ones that didn't/couldn't run. The foxes that survived were the healthiest and wariest and were also the ones to cause least problem to farmers.
I've said before on other threads that I used to be anti-hunt but since the ban I have changed my viewpoint. Indiscriminate shooting is not going to help the fox as a species - though it is necessary from a farming viewpoint.
One thing that hunting with dogs definitely has over shooting is that there is a 'season' for it. Namely when they are not breeding and the weak are at their weakest. Shooting at this time of year is much more cruel than hunting with dogs could ever be. There are still young very much dependent on their mother who will starve to death if hunting is done at this time of year. The best time of year to minimise the impact is autumn and winter.
Boozeburglar
06-Jun-10, 12:53
I've seen the damage horse and hound hunts do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.
Foxes can be controlled humanely and efficiently, no need to return to the bad old days. Incidentally many of those involved in the traditional hunts are far from being country folk.
porshiepoo
06-Jun-10, 12:56
It's time to allow farmers and country folk to get on with culling foxes. If that means dashing about the countryside in red coats in company with lots of beagles then so be it.
I've seen the damage foxes do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.
Are you serious?
Foxes kill for food end of.
Fox hunting with hounds is one of the most barbaric blood sports and has been banned for ruddy good reason.
Witness a fox hunt and then you come on here again and let us know who is actually killing 'for the sheer pleasure of the kill'.
Foxes can be controlled humanely and efficiently,
But effective is not necessarily best for survival of the species :( Foxes will soon go the way that wolves went :(
Anyway this is not a debate about the rights or wrongs of hunting/shooting it is about finding veekay someone with a gun. Sorry for taking it off topic myself...
I'm sure you'll find someone happy to help - people often ask if there is anyone willing to let them shoot on their land. Most humane hunters though will not do so in breeding season - you may find you need to wait.
porshiepoo
06-Jun-10, 13:09
That's not actually what happens - that is human perception of an event. Take the example of a chicken coop... Foxes are clever - if there is a mass of easy prey they will kill it all and hide what it can't eat for when pickings are slimmer. A fox that didn't do this would be at a disadvantage.
What actually happens is the fox raids the coop and bites off all the heads because the brain is the most nutritious part of the bird. The fox will then remove the bodies one by one. The reason it looks like the fox has killed them all and left is because they usually get disturbed before they are finished.
The majority of rural foxes will not attempt to break into a chicken coop - it is a dangerous undertaking. The ones that tend to do so are the ones that are old or sick (easy to catch food is worth the risk of being caught) or the foxes that have become humanised and lost their fear (foxes may be cute but feeding them doesn't help the farmers). It the pre-ban days the foxes that tended to get caught were these same foxes - the ones that didn't/couldn't run. The foxes that survived were the healthiest and wariest and were also the ones to cause least problem to farmers.
I've said before on other threads that I used to be anti-hunt but since the ban I have changed my viewpoint. Indiscriminate shooting is not going to help the fox as a species - though it is necessary from a farming viewpoint.
One thing that hunting with dogs definitely has over shooting is that there is a 'season' for it. Namely when they are not breeding and the weak are at their weakest. Shooting at this time of year is much more cruel than hunting with dogs could ever be. There are still young very much dependent on their mother who will starve to death if hunting is done at this time of year. The best time of year to minimise the impact is autumn and winter.
OMG I've heard it all now.
Shooting is more cruel than hunting them down with a pack of dogs?? You honestly believe that?
I, unfortunately, can claim to have the displeasure of fox hunting with dogs - no excuse but it was part of the job description (I worked with Hunters and Eventers).
After the fox has been tracked and chased for many many miles by a mob of idiots on horseback and a pack of eager, bloodthirsty hounds the poor thing is set on by the dogs and literally ripped to shreds.
You talk of 'season' for hunting? The reason for this is to protect the fox young because they are needed for the following seasons blood thirsty sport.
Do not be mis-guided into believing that this is purely for cub protection, it's purely for the protection of the sport.
In actual fact I knew of places where Fox were 'protected' to some extent as the area was known to produce a decent amount of huntable Fox.
I know there are risks involved with shooting of Fox but I also know that it is much kinder to get a clean shot and a swift kill from a bullet than to be chased, scared beyond belief and then shredded in front of a jubilent pack of idiots on horseback.
The ONLY reason a person hunts on horseback is for the thrill, they do not do it to keep the Fox population under control (though they may use that guise) nor do they have any forethought or afterthought of the poor creature they have just murdered.
Shabbychic
06-Jun-10, 13:31
is there anyone out there doing pest control? We are inundated with these pests and could do with some control.
I was going to say is there anyone out there shooting these b----y things but the pc brigade wouldn't like it.
Just out of curiousity, what damage are these foxes actually doing on your land?
OMG I've heard it all now.
Shooting is more cruel than hunting them down with a pack of dogs?? You honestly believe that?
You talk of 'season' for hunting? The reason for this is to protect the fox young because they are needed for the following seasons blood thirsty sport.
It may not be the 'reason' that fox hunting was done then but it did stop the young from starving to death due to the death of a mother. I also stated that any hunter (with guns) is unlikely to shoot at this time of year for that very reason.
I believe a quick death from hounds is less cruel than several cubs starving to death.
In fact I think they are both cruel but it is something that we are unlikely to get away from any time soon.
Why do you give me a lecture about how hunting happens? I'm sure I said pre-ban I was anti... I'm slowly changing my views due to the very reasons you have said. Your argument actually sways me for the reintroduction of hunting with dogs - the very fact that the population is protected as you said ensures the continuation of the species. How it is now doesn't.
OP - please think of this as a free bump. I understand where you are coming from (I have chickens that I am trying to protect) and am sure someone will be able to help.
Shabbychic
06-Jun-10, 13:59
I believe a quick death from hounds is less cruel than several cubs starving to death.
But it's not a quick death from hounds, is it? The chase can last for hours, during which time the terrified fox runs itself to exhaustion before the dirty deed is done.
But it's not a quick death from hounds, is it? The chase can last for hours, during which time the terrified fox runs itself to exhaustion before the dirty deed is done.
Tried to rep for this but yet again I have to spread it around first,very well said though! And so true,and even more so is the point that the cubs would still starve to death,the fox wont go into the den while being chased by hounds,for exactly that reason-to protect their young! Fox hunting is cruel, no matter how anyone tries to make it "justified":roll: x
I apologise if I've offended anyone's sensibilities however I did start my post by saying, “It's time to allow farmers and country folk to get on with culling foxes”. I mentioned hunting with dogs because that’s what most of us are familiar with. I could have just as easily said, “by shooting guns all over the place”. The main thrust of my posting is that farmers and country folk are more likely to know best how to resolve the issue.
As regarding the killing of chickens etc. I accept your explanation Leanne, however it does nothing to alleviate the feelings of revulsion anyone feels when they go out to collect their eggs in the morning.
Tried to rep for this but yet again I have to spread it around first,very well said though! And so true,and even more so is the point that the cubs would still starve to death,the fox wont go into the den while being chased by hounds,for exactly that reason-to protect their young! Fox hunting is cruel, no matter how anyone tries to make it "justified":roll: x
But hunting doesn't happen during the breeding season so this doesn't happen. I'm by no means justifying it - as I have said many times now - pre-ban I was anti. I'm not sure what I am now but I am definitely for whatever allows the continued protection of the species as a whole
Any way has to be done humanely,growing up in the country i know that foxes can be a problem as can other species but I cannot abide anyone who chooses to dispose of the problem by the easiest or "most rewarding" manner(not that I am saying you would before its misread that way) I used to do a lot of riding and couldnt bare to go to hunts,mocks were fine but not the real thing,infact I cannot abide hunting for pleasure of any kind,but again thats my choice and belief,others have different beliefs,not that that makes it right though x
Just out of curiousity, what damage are these foxes actually doing on your land?
Not my land but my live stock.
Not my land but my live stock.
They love playing with lambs :(
No blood or gore in the pic don't worry but shut your eyes if you're easily offended....
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3658/3513913968_fc7ff1d142.jpg
Shabbychic
06-Jun-10, 14:55
They love playing with lambs :(
No blood or gore in the pic don't worry but shut your eyes if you're easily offended....
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3658/3513913968_fc7ff1d142.jpg
Seen this before. It is one of a series of shots taken from a holiday cottage. It was also stated that this lamb fought off the fox and ran away unharmed. :)
Seen this before. It is one of a series of shots taken from a holiday cottage. It was also stated that this lamb fought off the fox and ran away unharmed. :)
Aw that's a nice ending :)
Not my land but my live stock.
I don't suppose for one minute that you have considered ensuring that your livestock are safe and secure?
There have been various threads about this issue and it emerged that there are ways of keeping your livestock safe.
I imagine that you are concerned with the economic loss of your animals, so I will pose a question for you
Would you leave a £50/20 note or whatever in an open place without making sure that is secure?
I don't suppose for one minute that you have considered ensuring that your livestock are safe and secure?
There have been various threads about this issue and it emerged that there are ways of keeping your livestock safe.
I imagine that you are concerned with the economic loss of your animals, so I will pose a question for you
Would you leave a £50/20 note or whatever in an open place without making sure that is secure?
how do keep yours safe and secure?
how do keep yours safe and secure?
In either my pocket or my my wallet
Seen this before. It is one of a series of shots taken from a holiday cottage. It was also stated that this lamb fought off the fox and ran away unharmed. :)
You're right Shabbychic:
"A sequence of shots from the window of our hired cottage in the Lakes. The fox approached the lambs and singled one out, but despite the chase and the standoff, the little white fella somehow managed to see the fox off. "
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zoot42/3513913968/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zoot42/3513913968/)
I don't suppose for one minute that you have considered ensuring that your livestock are safe and secure?
There have been various threads about this issue and it emerged that there are ways of keeping your livestock safe.
I imagine that you are concerned with the economic loss of your animals, so I will pose a question for you
Would you leave a £50/20 note or whatever in an open place without making sure that is secure?
Are you willing to pay the extra that it costs for the produce?
I have 'foxproofed' my chicken run but housing them in a slate built building and surrounding the enclosure with electrified chicken fencing. The fencing alone for a 50m x 20m run cost me £350 to put up (and that is using my OH's labour). Imagine multiplying this up to acres???
Are you willing to pay the extra that it costs for the produce?
I have 'foxproofed' my chicken run but housing them in a slate built building and surrounding the enclosure with electrified chicken fencing. The fencing alone for a 50m x 20m run cost me £350 to put up (and that is using my OH's labour). Imagine multiplying this up to acres???
I don't eat meat so cost is not relevant to me
You have shown above, and in previous posts on different threads, that it is possible to safeguard livestock
If a person can not protect their livestock then maybe they should think again about their capabilities.
You have shown above, and in previous posts on different threads, that it is possible to safeguard livestock
If a person can not protect their livestock then maybe they should think again about their capabilities.
I have shown that as a hobbyist it is possible to protect livestock. Unfortunately this is economically unfeasable. It's not about capabilities, it's about financial viability. Even a meat eater who eats organic and free range would probably baulk at the cost of a lamb joint that is 3 times the price of any other just because it's 'fox friendly'.
Even a meat eater who eats organic and free range would probably baulk at the cost of a lamb joint that is 3 times the price of any other just because it's 'fox friendly'.
Various studies by Defra and others have shown that Fox predation on lambs is less than 2% and it is unclear what percentage of these are on healthy lambs, as opposed to sick and diseased animals.
Defra (http://www.defra.gov.uk/rural/countryside/hunting/qanda2.htm#3)
http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/objtwr/imported_assets/content/pw/vp/ddf/f06201.pdf
Not my land but my live stock.
you avoided the question. what damage are these huge numbers of foxes doing?
you avoided the question. what damage are these huge numbers of foxes doing?
I recon the lack of response means "none of your business". The OP asked if someone could help not justify himself/herself. Do you have a solution that doesn't involved shooting foxes and doesn't involve erecting fencing that isn't subsidised by the government?
I recon the lack of response means "none of your business". The OP asked if someone could help not justify himself/herself. Do you have a solution that doesn't involved shooting foxes and doesn't involve erecting fencing that isn't subsidised by the government?
perhaps this is the wrong section then. this is the general section for youre information. Can the op not speak for themself?
Can the op not speak for themself?
I recon the lack of response means "none of your business".
I think you might be a long time waiting ;)
I think you might be a long time waiting ;)
so youre saying i wont get any sense out of either of you. i see
Why on earth should any landowner and stock owner have to come on here and justify why they wish to rid their land of vermin.
Get a grip of yourselves people, it's all fine to sit in your town house and got to your cosy town job each day, it's a totally different story when you work 24 hours a day to lamb and look after your animals in all weather conditions and have foxes on the prowl that are liable to destroy your hard efforts.
I do not believe in killing animals for no reason but I do believe that when they pose a risk they should be dealt with in an efficient and quick way,
I abhor fox hunting but I can totally understand why someone would want to protect their land by humanely killing and we have absolutely no right whatsoever to try to butt in and interfere in their choice.
Why on earth should any landowner and stock owner have to come on here and justify why they wish to rid their land of vermin.
Get a grip of yourselves people, it's all fine to sit in your town house and got to your cosy town job each day, it's a totally different story when you work 24 hours a day to lamb and look after your animals in all weather conditions and have foxes on the prowl that are liable to destroy your hard efforts.
I do not believe in killing animals for no reason but I do believe that when they pose a risk they should be dealt with in an efficient and quick way,
I abhor fox hunting but I can totally understand why someone would want to protect their land by humanely killing and we have absolutely no right whatsoever to try to butt in and interfere in their choice.
the op said that they were inundated with them and i and others wanted to know what damage they werre doing. looks like they cannot answer anyway.
btw, most people who work with lambs look after tghe animals not because they are sacrificing anything but because they want more money for themselves from the slaughterhouse to buy a 4x4. townies understand this well i assure you.
Peg
So you are an expert are you, I actually know many people who have had rabbit hutches broken into and rabbits killed in hutches in their gardens, so how on earth is someone in the country supposed to keep the things away in fields if they want to have a go at their livestock. Go out and give it a try.
And the OP is trying to keep their stock safe by removing the danger they are facing. So your argument there is totally silly.
You see there is also a townie statement, Farmers genuinely need their 4x4 townies dont.
btw, most people who work with lambs look after tghe animals not because they are sacrificing anything but because they want more money for themselves from the slaughterhouse to buy a 4x4.
Peg
Isn't this what everyone else would call a job? Why should farmers be any different - they have as much right to put food on the table, pay the bills and buy nice things as anyone else.
Unicorn is right - your post shouts 'townie'.
I've just been driving my 4x4 - out spraying my fields to kill the docks ;)
Here in Ontario foxes are a major source of rabies.
We have a humane way of dealing with the likelihood of rabies in wild life.
We feed the critters vaccine
Could a similar program utilising contraceptives be offered in Caithness?
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Rabies/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_166320.html
Isn't this what everyone else would call a job? Why should farmers be any different - they have as much right to put food on the table, pay the bills and buy nice things as anyone else.
Unicorn is right - your post shouts 'townie'.
I've just been driving my 4x4 - out spraying my fields to kill the docks ;)
Well said, I work to pay for my "nice things" to.
Here in Ontario foxes are a major source of rabies.
We have a humane way of dealing with the likelihood of rabies in wild life.
We feed the critters vaccine
Could a similar program utilising contraceptives be offered in Caithness?
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Rabies/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_166320.html
The best contraceptive for Foxes that are bothering livestock is an accurately placed peice of lead.
Here in Ontario foxes are a major source of rabies.
We have a humane way of dealing with the likelihood of rabies in wild life.
We feed the critters vaccine
Could a similar program utilising contraceptives be offered in Caithness?
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Rabies/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_166320.html
Teaching the little critters how to put them on could be tricky.
The best contraceptive for Foxes that are bothering livestock is an accurately placed peice of lead.
So not a baying pack of Yahoo Henrys on big horses with a pack of blood thirsty hounds then?
Teaching the little critters how to put them on could be tricky.
Spat my coffee at the screen!
I recon the lack of response means "none of your business". The OP asked if someone could help not justify himself/herself. Do you have a solution that doesn't involved shooting foxes and doesn't involve erecting fencing that isn't subsidised by the government?
Pegasus asked a perfectly legitimate question.
If OP can/will not advise what type of livestock are being bothered by "pests", how can anyone offer an alternative solution to him?
Why on earth should any landowner and stock owner have to come on here and justify why they wish to rid their land of vermin.
He was not asked to come on here, OP made post of his own free will and therefore should expect that some people would not agree with his request for help in "shooting these b----y things"
Get a grip of yourselves people, it's all fine to sit in your town house and got to your cosy town job each day, it's a totally different story when you work 24 hours a day to lamb and look after your animals in all weather conditions and have foxes on the prowl that are liable to destroy your hard efforts.
How very judgemental of you to assume that because people do not share your belief in killing foxes that we are all "Townies", I most certainly am not
I do not believe in killing animals for no reason but I do believe that when they pose a risk they should be dealt with in an efficient and quick way
See my post above for "Official" figures from an independent organisation (DEFRA)
I abhor fox hunting but I can totally understand why someone would want to protect their land by humanely killing and we have absolutely no right whatsoever to try to butt in and interfere in their choice.[/quote]
So you are an expert are you, I actually know many people who have had rabbit hutches broken into and rabbits killed in hutches in their gardens,
Same old argument, People who support the killing of foxes always "know someone" who have had poultry, rabbits etc killed by foxes.
Simple answer is, like LEANNE states is to build an enclosure which foxes can not get into!!
onecalledk
06-Jun-10, 19:17
So you are an expert are you, I actually know many people who have had rabbit hutches broken into and rabbits killed in hutches in their gardens, so how on earth is someone in the country supposed to keep the things away in fields if they want to have a go at their livestock. Go out and give it a try.
And the OP is trying to keep their stock safe by removing the danger they are facing. So your argument there is totally silly.
You see there is also a townie statement, Farmers genuinely need their 4x4 townies dont.
Foxes are animals, we all agree, livestock are animals, we all agree, so why is it when it comes down to asking the question of how to deal with these animals it becomes a townie /country debate??????
wild animals have lived in the countryside since the dawn of time. MAN has invaded their territory not the other way around. It seems from reading these posts that farmers would be very happy if they could raise livestock and not have any predators attack said livestock. They would upset the balance of nature and cause a huge knock on effect. You cannot eradicate a species and not have consequences. Surely if you live in the country you accept the country for what it is.
Turning into a debate of who lives in the country or a town is not helpful and is a bit childish is it not ....
I live in the country so I know more about it that you sort of mentally helps NO ONE ....
K
Isn't this what everyone else would call a job? Why should farmers be any different - they have as much right to put food on the table, pay the bills and buy nice things as anyone else.
Unicorn is right - your post shouts 'townie'.
I've just been driving my 4x4 - out spraying my fields to kill the docks ;)
good for you but maybe you should spend more time stating where you get youre photos from and not trying to say that the same photos are portraying the exact opposite of what they are really showing?
youre posts shout fraud
good for you but maybe you should spend more time stating where you get youre photos from and not trying to say that the same photos are portraying the exact opposite of what they are really showing?
youre posts shout fraud
And what do yours shout. They look to me like someone who doesn't have the vocabulary to voice a well constructed argument so results to name calling. Try again :roll:
Anyway fraudulent about what? Anyone can see where the photo's are from - I linked to them. Just click quote and the source will come up...
All I stated was this. I didn't state anything was being eaten - I actually said there was no blood and gore...How is it showing the exact opposite? The fox is chasing the lamb - the fact it escaped is irrelevant. Antis will tell you hunting with hounds is inefficient as some foxes escape - they don't show those pictures though they show the blood and gore.
They love playing with lambs :(
No blood or gore in the pic don't worry but shut your eyes if you're easily offended....
porshiepoo
06-Jun-10, 20:10
At the end of the day Fox kill livestock, chicken etc as a means of survival and to feed their young.
The same cannot be said for hunting with hounds. It's a cruel barbaric sport.
Leanne it is entirely up to you whether you agree with Fox hunting or not, however, I would suggest that you do some real research before claiming that hunting with a pack of dogs is "quicker".
How long do you think a hunt goes on for? 10 mins? 20 mins?? In extremely fortunate circumstances for the poor fox it may do (not exactly "quick" though is it).
Hunts can go on for hours. Hours of chasing down and wearing out a poor Fox that could have possibly been bred for that particular event.
The kill is neither "quick" nor swift. It's barbaric and it's brutal and extremely noisy.
There are many circumstances where Fox may need to be culled, I am not disputing that but their are quicker and kinder methods than hunting them down and protecting a species purely to satiate the blood lust of idiots on horseback is certainly not the way we should be doing things - IMO.
- the fact it escaped is irrelevant. .
not irrelelvant at all. very relelvant.
there is scientific evidence to suggest that foxes only take dead lambs. i saw that on tele years ago. farmers dont like this research i know but it was scientioficially accurate
porshiepoo
06-Jun-10, 20:18
Are you willing to pay the extra that it costs for the produce?
I have 'foxproofed' my chicken run but housing them in a slate built building and surrounding the enclosure with electrified chicken fencing. The fencing alone for a 50m x 20m run cost me £350 to put up (and that is using my OH's labour). Imagine multiplying this up to acres???
I too have chickens and yep, the local Fox has taken its fair share.
Do I want to set my dogs on that Fox because I'm down a few eggs? Nope!
The way I see it is if I want to make sure my Chicken are 100% safe and secure I build an enclosure similar to the one you have and I don't moan about the expense.
However I want my chicken to roam free so I have to accept that I am going to lose some to the local Fox who has a litter to feed no doubt.
Sad for the Chicken but hey ho, that's nature for you.
I would say the same for Livestock. There are ways to keep them safe however a risk is taken every single day by every single farmer. I would imagine that many farmers are resigned to the odd loss of life?
How many more species are we to lose simply because they have gotten in the way of mankinds dominance on this earth?
Leanne it is entirely up to you whether you agree with Fox hunting or not, however, I would suggest that you do some real research before claiming that hunting with a pack of dogs is "quicker".
How long do you think a hunt goes on for? 10 mins? 20 mins?? In extremely fortunate circumstances for the poor fox it may do (not exactly "quick" though is it).
As stated before - I was anti. Now I'm looking for sustainable alternatives. I have done some real research - I have been to a hunt and seen what happens with my own eyes. This is not what turned me anti though - I didn't get the impression that people there were there for the bloodlust, far from it. Most seemed to be there to exercise their horses. And contrary to popular belief there are just as many foot followers as mounted people. The hunt I witnessed lasted 3 hours. There was much waiting around, many false starts and to be honest it wasn't at all what I expected. When a hound was found the actual 'chase' lasted about 15 minutes. The fox managed to stop for a pee along the way and was caught by the lead hound and dispatched by having its throat torn out (this is what I didn't like). It was however quick.
On the other side I have seen a fox shot by a farmer but not killed, just mortally wounded. It got away but who knows how long it lasted for before it finally died. Shooting isn't always the quick and painless option...
I am well researched - more than most I have debated with (it you want some really interesting debate go on the horse and hound forum where there are just as many antis as pros but where people are talking with a sound knowledge base). Any points I make on this subject are from personal experience, not second hand or what I read on a website.
i saw that on tele years ago.
Oh so it must be true :roll: Did it tell you with a moving mouth like in the film Babe?
Conversley I have seen research that shows that it is the sick and injured foxes that take farm stock. Foxes that are in too poor condition to hunt.
It is actually fairly rare for lambs to spontaneously die in the field. Usually they are housed until they are strong enough to go out and stand a fighting chance.
However I want my chicken to roam free so I have to accept that I am going to lose some to the local Fox who has a litter to feed no doubt.
Sad for the Chicken but hey ho, that's nature for you.
But it isn't nature is it? Chickens are not wild animals - they were bred by humans to be the meat/egg producers that they are. Why does a foxes life matter more than a chickens? That is something I am yet to work out. Without your chickens the foxes would not starve - they would eat rabbits. All free range chucks do it make it easier for the fox.
As stated before - I was anti. Now I'm looking for sustainable alternatives. I have done some real research - I have been to a hunt and seen what happens with my own eyes. This is not what turned me anti though - I didn't get the impression that people there were there for the bloodlust, far from it. Most seemed to be there to exercise their horses. And contrary to popular belief there are just as many foot followers as mounted people. The hunt I witnessed lasted 3 hours. There was much waiting around, many false starts and to be honest it wasn't at all what I expected. When a hound was found the actual 'chase' lasted about 15 minutes. The fox managed to stop for a pee along the way and was caught by the lead hound and dispatched by having its throat torn out (this is what I didn't like). It was however quick.
On the other side I have seen a fox shot by a farmer but not killed, just mortally wounded. It got away but who knows how long it lasted for before it finally died. Shooting isn't always the quick and painless option...
I am well researched - more than most I have debated with (it you want some really interesting debate go on the horse and hound forum where there are just as many antis as pros but where people are talking with a sound knowledge base). Any points I make on this subject are from personal experience, not second hand or what I read on a website.
So your "well researched Research" was based on ONE fox hunt that you attended. Even the "The Scum" newspaper does better research on its stories than that.
Would you like to share with us what hunt it was you went to?
If people want to exercise their horse why does it have to involve chasing animals
So your "well researched Research" was based on ONE fox hunt that you attended. Even the "The Scum" newspaper does better research on its stories than that.
Would you like to share with us what hunt it was you went to?
If people want to exercise their horse why does it have to involve chasing animals
Not sure I see the relevance but - it was the East Cheshire Hunt.
That one hunt made me decide hunting wasn't for me. I didn't have the stomach for it. Why would I want to put myself through that twice to offer myself more proof? Just so an anonymous interwebber is satisfied? I think not...
You cannot exercise your horse in the same way by any other method. In England there isn't the right to roam, in Scotland there isn't the right to roam freely lol (many areas are inaccessible to horses). Bridle paths allow speeds no greater than a trot so that pretty limits where you can do anaerobic fittening work for a horse. That is why people hunt.
Historically drag hunts were not allowed access through fields - farmers weren't keen if they were getting nothing out of it. Since the banning of hunting with hounds hunts have increased but there is none of the old 'rough riding' that used to be associated with the old hunts (maybe this is a good thing).
And why do we enjoy riding with the hunt? There is nothing more liberating than galloping your horse, we borrow freedom from them.
Oh so it must be true :roll: Did it tell you with a moving mouth like in the film Babe?.
no babe.
you aint much of a scientist if you didnt even detreimne what the research youre mocking was or when and where it was conducted. pull the other one babe:lol:
And why do we enjoy riding with the hunt? .
'did'. its banned now and a good job to.
no babe.
you aint much of a scientist if you didnt even detreimne what the research youre mocking was or when and where it was conducted. pull the other one babe:lol:
I wasn't calling you babe I was referring to the film with the pig in hence the capitalisation. I didn't actually understand much of that post though...
Research? Since when is 'the tele' research?
'did'. its banned now and a good job to.
Ah but we can still go for a 'hunt' with hounds across the countryside and lovely it is too :) THAT is what I was referring to. In case you missed my earlier posts I am anti hunting with hounds. Why the animosity?
Has anyone thought of an alternative yet to hunting with hounds, shooting, trapping and poisoning? Or are we just going to go over this old topic again which is helping noone...
And what do yours shout. They look to me like someone who doesn't have the vocabulary to voice a well constructed argument so results to name calling. Try again :roll:.
perhaps they are due to dyslexia
porshiepoo
06-Jun-10, 20:51
As stated before - I was anti. Now I'm looking for sustainable alternatives. I have done some real research - I have been to a hunt and seen what happens with my own eyes. This is not what turned me anti though - I didn't get the impression that people there were there for the bloodlust, far from it. Most seemed to be there to exercise their horses. And contrary to popular belief there are just as many foot followers as mounted people. The hunt I witnessed lasted 3 hours. There was much waiting around, many false starts and to be honest it wasn't at all what I expected. When a hound was found the actual 'chase' lasted about 15 minutes. The fox managed to stop for a pee along the way and was caught by the lead hound and dispatched by having its throat torn out (this is what I didn't like). It was however quick.
On the other side I have seen a fox shot by a farmer but not killed, just mortally wounded. It got away but who knows how long it lasted for before it finally died. Shooting isn't always the quick and painless option...
I am well researched - more than most I have debated with (it you want some really interesting debate go on the horse and hound forum where there are just as many antis as pros but where people are talking with a sound knowledge base). Any points I make on this subject are from personal experience, not second hand or what I read on a website.
Rubbish!
You claim to have been to "a" hunt which IYO happens to have been "quick" and you have seen "a" fox shot by a farmer.
So you being "well researched" entails 1 hunt and 1 shooting and from those 2 incidents you have come to the conclusion that Hunting with hounds is better than a bullet? Oh and let's not forget about the "forum" research!!!!
No horse owner needs to join a hunt to exercise their horse so do not fool yourself into believing that what you claim to have witnessed must somehow mean that the sport cannot be as bad as it is.
Those people just "exercising" their horses are gutted if the hunt ends in a no kill believe me.
There may be the occasional short hunt (shortest I was on happened to be about 1hour and a half) just as there is the occasional mis-shot from a gun.
What of the Foxes that attempt to jump barbed wire in their escape and get hung up on it? Is that humane? Swift? Quick?
What happens if a Fox goes to ground? Some send Terriers down to flush them out which can and does end in body parts missing from both the Fox and the Terrier. Other times they can be down there for hours until one or the other is killed. Is that humane? swift? Quick?
Of course let's not forget the horses and the dogs. They do not escape this blood thirsty sport unharmed every single time. Horses have had to be destroyed due to injury as have many many dogs.
Is it really bloody worth it????
Aaldtimer
06-Jun-10, 20:58
It's not just in the countryside that all the problems are!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/10251349.stm :(
Rubbish!
You claim to have been to "a" hunt which IYO happens to have been "quick" and you have seen "a" fox shot by a farmer.
So you being "well researched" entails 1 hunt and 1 shooting and from those 2 incidents you have come to the conclusion that Hunting with hounds is better than a bullet? Oh and let's not forget about the "forum" research!!!!
Actually I stated that the bullet isn't always the quicker option, not that hounds were always quicker as you seem to think I have said. That was a completely separate issue. The issue with my decision and research into hunting was stated as the reason why I decided to be anti, not with the relative death speed of the fox. It took me one hunt to decide that hunting was not for me. Drag hunting however I love and it is the best way to exercise a horse IMO - It is brilliant fittening work, it encourages them to be bold, it teaches them to handle all types of terrain, it strengthens their tendons in preparation for competiton and what's more the horses enjoy it. Of course there are a few who don't, including my friends boy, who also doesn't much like being turned out in the field.
I'll say it again - there's nothing more liberating than galloping your horse - we borrow freedom. How can that be construed as offensive?
Pegasus - dyslexia isn't really an excuse. Someone can be dyslexic and have difficulty in spelling and recognising words, but still put together a wonderfully eloquent argument. Dyslexia doesn't make someone unable to debate - ignorance and closed-mindedness does.
Mrs Bucket
06-Jun-10, 21:11
[quote=Boozeburglar;717835]I've seen the damage horse and hound hunts do, not to feed themselves or their offspring but for the sheer pleasure of the kill - they are merciless.
Foxes can be controlled humanely and efficiently, no need to return to the bad old days. Incidentally many of those involved in the traditional hunts are far from being country folk.
[/quote
agree agree agree
Pegasus - dyslexia isn't really an excuse. Someone can be dyslexic and have difficulty in spelling and recognising words, but still put together a wonderfully eloquent argument. Dyslexia doesn't make someone unable to debate - ignorance and closed-mindedness does.
thanks but i wouldnt rate you as much of a medical expert sorry
thanks but i wouldnt rate you as much of a medical expert sorry
Nor I you. It was you that was using dyslexia as reasoning. With what qualifications? - seeing as you are questioning 'rating'.
What on earth happened to this thread? There was a lovely debate going and now it has ended up in namecalling and all the previous posters seem to have been scared off... Antis and pros - come back!
Nor I you. It was you that was using dyslexia as reasoning. With what qualifications? - seeing as you are questioning 'rating'.
What on earth happened to this thread? There was a lovely debate going and now it has ended up in namecalling and all the previous posters seem to have been scared off... Antis and pros - come back!
i note that i was keeping to the topic by asking the op something untiul you butted in
hold on now, before we go any further down the debate, this isn't actually a debate.
is there anyone out there doing pest control? We are inundated with these pests and could do with some control.
I was going to say is there anyone out there shooting these b----y things but the pc brigade wouldn't like it.
veekay asked a question, i know on the org that something like this won't go with out some form of debate as foxes/hunting always provokes a reaction but 4 pages is going a bit far, i don't know of anyone doing pest control but maybe if anyone did they could let veekay know before this post goes to the dogs... haha anyone? no.... ? arite arite
hat.coat.door... [lol]
It's not just in the countryside that all the problems are!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/10251349.stm :(
Blinking heck "Nine-month-old twin girls are in hospital after reports they were attacked by a fox at their home in east London. Police said officers and paramedics were called to a house at around 2200 BST on Saturday.
The little girls are being treated at the Royal London Hospital and are described as being in a "serious but stable condition".
Both are understood to have arm wounds and one has facial injuries.
The fox was believed to have been in an upstairs room as the babies slept..."
perhaps they are due to dyslexia
If it is, it must 'come and go' cos your posting was excellent here:
09-May-10, 15:56 My sister never failed to keep me updated when the first swallow of the year arrived to nest under her eaves. Since I lived in suburbia at the time, this only served to intensify my longing to see the wee swallows once more. She also never forgot to tell me when the last swallow departed for distant shores..
09-May-10, 01:09 Can't believe the latest craze, micro-pigs! The dinky piggies have become the celebrity's pet choice. They are smaller than your average cat, they are loyal and affectionate. Fancy a pig sitting on your lap? Somehow I don't think they will be a serious contender for dogs and cats.
09-May-10, 00:14 Just noticed that the Google image is the 150th Birthday of J.M. Barrie. My favourite when I was a child were the magical tales by Hans Christian Andersen. Such tales are reminiscent of times past and bring back happy memories for me. Anyone remember their particular favourite and I wonder if you read them to your own children?
If it is, it must 'come and go' cos your posting was excellent here:
Woo hoo! And Pegasus calls me a fraud ;)
onecalledk
06-Jun-10, 22:08
.
But it isn't nature is it? Chickens are not wild animals - they were bred by humans to be the meat/egg producers that they are. .[/quote]
I think you will find that chickens are in fact WILD ANIMALS , there are many species of chicken that roam free and are not tame. Man may have starting keeping chickens and then eating the meat and eggs but to state they were never wild (the chickens that is ) is a bit naive .....
K
Not sure I see the relevance but - it was the East Cheshire Hunt.
As Pegasus pointed out above. YOU ARE A FRAUD
As someone who regulary attended fox/hare packs in the N/W of England, I had never heard of the "East Cheshire Hunt" so I checked it out.
There is an East Cheshire pack of hounds, but there is a slight problem,
they are a drag hunt and so no foxes are killed! The web site for the East Chesire Drag Hunt can be found at ECDH (http://www.necdh.co.uk/)
I then checked with the MFHA (http://www.mfha.org.uk/directory/search-by-letter/e/) (Masters Of Foxhounds Association) and guess what, "East Cheshire Hunt" is not listed.
Maybe it was a long time ago when you went out with the hunt i.e. before the hunting with hounds was banned, So i looked up historical records (http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/mainsections/research/seminar28-04part1.htm)and surprise surprise, they were a drag hunt in 2000, well before the ban came in.
Agent Leanne please return to the Hunt Saboteurs Association as your mission has ended in complete success
.
I think you will find that chickens are in fact WILD ANIMALS , there are many species of chicken that roam free and are not tame. Man may have starting keeping chickens and then eating the meat and eggs but to state they were never wild (the chickens that is ) is a bit naive .....
K
Chickens as we know it are not wild bird they have been selectively bred to make them as they are. They have solid bones in contrast to wild, flighted birds, presumably as this trait meant that they were poor flyers and couldn't stray far from the homestead. Pretty much in the same way pheasants were bred to be a bit stupid (not much sport pheasant shooting really...). Chickens wouldn't survive in the wild due to this very fact - they have poor survival skills. To suggest that chickens are non-domesticated and wild is naive.
As Pegasus pointed out above. YOU ARE A FRAUD
As someone who regulary attended fox/hare packs in the N/W of England, I had never heard of the "East Cheshire Hunt" so I checked it out.
There is an East Cheshire pack of hounds, but there is a slight problem,
they are a drag hunt and so no foxes are killed! The web site for the East Chesire Drag Hunt can be found at ECDH (http://www.necdh.co.uk/)
I then checked with the MFHA (http://www.mfha.org.uk/directory/search-by-letter/e/) (Masters Of Foxhounds Association) and guess what, "East Cheshire Hunt" is not listed.
Maybe it was a long time ago when you went out with the hunt i.e. before the hunting with hounds was banned, So i looked up historical records (http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/mainsections/research/seminar28-04part1.htm)and surprise surprise, they were a drag hunt in 2000, well before the ban came in.
Agent Leanne please return to the Hunt Saboteurs Association as your mission has ended in complete success
Yes they are drag hunts - as are all hunts in England now.
You are quoting the North East Cheshire Drag hunt - that is a group completely separate. The East Cheshire Hunt is also known as the Cheshire Forest Hunt and were anything but drag - they were the main hunt that hit the press for trying to circumnavigate the ban :(. I joined them on a day ticket as they were my 'local' hunt when I working at East Cheshire District General in Macclesfield.
I have drag hunted with the North East Cheshire hunt and didn't enjoy it much. There was far too much stopping and starting, very little fast runs and also very few jumps. I much prefer Cheshire Farmers Drag Hunt. They also do the best parties!!!
http://www.bailyshuntingdirectory.com/gallery/huntname_cheshireforest-0.php
is this who you mean?
onecalledk
06-Jun-10, 22:34
Chickens as we know it are not wild bird they have been selectively bred to make them as they are. They have solid bones in contrast to wild, flighted birds, presumably as this trait meant that they were poor flyers and couldn't stray far from the homestead. Pretty much in the same way pheasants were bred to be a bit stupid (not much sport pheasant shooting really...). Chickens wouldn't survive in the wild due to this very fact - they have poor survival skills. To suggest that chickens are non-domesticated and wild is naive.
if you dare to step out of your breeding laboratory you will find there are feral chickens in various places , on the Isle of Man for example they roam free, these are not tame nor domesticated they are WILD ! EVERY animal alive to day at some point was a wild animal, man came along and then domesticated them. Chickens dont fly because they have clipped wings, non clipped winged chickens FLY like other birds ...... Pheasants are stupid , full stop, they were not bred that way they just are.....
YOu do realise that animals are born and not made dont you ?
The chickens we say by the way were wild and ALIVE ......
K
If it is, it must 'come and go'
seems to come and go with the drink. cant see the correlation myself
very odd why you would be digging about cdpor old posts?
Peg
Yes they are drag hunts - as are all hunts in England now.
You are quoting the North East Cheshire Drag hunt - that is a group completely separate. The East Cheshire Hunt is also known as the Cheshire Forest Hunt and were anything but drag - they were the main hunt that hit the press for trying to circumnavigate the ban :(. I joined them on a day ticket as they were my 'local' hunt when I working at East Cheshire District General in Macclesfield.
I have drag hunted with the North East Cheshire hunt and didn't enjoy it much. There was far too much stopping and starting, very little fast runs and also very few jumps. I much prefer Cheshire Farmers Drag Hunt. They also do the best parties!!!
Leanne you are digging yourself into such a big hole, stop digging.
The Cheshire Forest, a pack I have followed (but not from a hunting perspective) has never been known as the "East Cheshire Hunt"
Check your facts. before posting or maybe your are still suffering from a hangover from one of the "best parties" you mentioned.
Woo hoo! And Pegasus calls me a fraud ;)
yes i did and i do
but thanks for the grren card
I don't much care for the accusation of FRAUD levelled at a fellow Orger (low though my opinion of the ORG. might be.)
I think an apology is due.
if you dare to step out of your breeding laboratory you will find there are feral chickens in various places , on the Isle of Man for example they roam free, these are not tame nor domesticated they are WILD ! EVERY animal alive to day at some point was a wild animal, man came along and then domesticated them. Chickens dont fly because they have clipped wings, non clipped winged chickens FLY like other birds ...... Pheasants are stupid , full stop, they were not bred that way they just are.....
YOu do realise that animals are born and not made dont you ?
The chickens we say by the way were wild and ALIVE ......
K
There are no native foxes on the Isle of Man so I suppose feral chickens do perfectly well :) As they are non-native if any do find their way to the island they are culled so as not to upset the ecosystem...
Also feral is a different thing to wild - they have been domesticated at some point in recent generation. I was waiting for your evidence of true wild chickens as you so vehnemently spoke of, with capitals and EVERYTHING! lol
And chickens do not fly - they can get airborn but reach about 4 foot before running out of puff so to speak. I'd say they have 4 foot of life and maybe 10-12 foot of length. Their bones are too dense to allow them to fly properly. If you want to test it yourself you are welcome to come and chase my chickens to see if they fly away - the don't. They kind of flap and run...
True wild pheasants are anything but stupid. Domesticated ones were probably selected at some point for their sheer stupidity and this characteristic is now the norm. Poor birds...
Leanne you are digging yourself into such a big hole, stop digging.
The Cheshire Forest, a pack I have followed (but not from a hunting perspective) has never been known as the "East Cheshire Hunt"
Check your facts. before posting or maybe your are still suffering from a hangover from one of the "best parties" you mentioned.
Check out a map - they are in East Cheshire. As a local, I can assure they are indeed known as the East Cheshire Hunt. It helps distinguish them from the the Cheshire Hunt itself. There is animosity and occasionally overlap between the two hunts - calling them the East Cheshire Hunt makes it more identifiable which hunt you are actually following.
How am I digging myself a hole - you appear to me to be the one falling into a hole. You claim you have followed them but not from a hunting perspective - perhaps I know you if this claim is true...
Chickens dont fly because they have clipped wings, non clipped winged chickens FLY like other birds ......
Dont know what chickens you have seen or got...:lol: Can i have some??? :lol: I'll pay you good money for them...
My chooks are definately not clipped and can not fly at all - The best ive ever seen is a jump into the air and an non magestic flap back down...
I have never heard of a chicken being able to take flight like say a sea gull?? Come to think of it would be quite a funny sight. I'll give you £20 per flying chicken...
I am getting confused here with the chickens.
Are they being hunted by red coated horsemen?
Surely not.
So what are they doing in this thread?
Are they just being used to egg us on.....?
of course chickens can fly...
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/0/KFC--331.jpg
of course chickens can fly...
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/0/KFC--331.jpg
Brilliant! Quoting you so we can all see it's wonder twice :)
seriously though i have never seen a chicken (and i have seen a few) able to fly, they fall with style to quote a Mr B Lightyear
although i have to agree with rich what this has to do with veekay looking for pest control i am yet to figure out.
Calm doon people, you're making a mountain out of a mole hole !
Chickens can fly btw, depending on which breed they either flap and fall or take off... your orpingtons, locini, are the first variety...flap and drop...lol
I agree that pest control needs to be done if the place is overrun by vermin. We should all know that it can be very different depending on the area, how much vermin is creeping about.
Another point to make: If you have expensive livestock put up expensive fences. Electric fencing is most effective to keep foxes out. They are too stupid to wither dig under or jump over, so it's not all that expensive to keep a field fox free. Strip grazing at a lower level will keep foxes out just fine.
Most people will have had their chickens taken by foxes at some point. We did down south, middle of town, main road... He killed all 16 and although I left them in the garden he only came back for 3 and left the rest to rot.
Up here no problems so far. We don't have rabbits on our 25 acres so not overrun with foxes... egg layers roam freely with a fairly vicious cockerel, expensive rare breeds are behind electric fencing in locked shed...just in case a fox or buzzard get a taste for our birds... dogs are running around barking and keeping predators at a distance. Should a chicken go missing during the day then we just have to live with it, birds of prey have to feed...so do foxes.
BTW, if foxes could read and operate laptops they would probably join in and tell us to get the hell out of their territory....
Check out a map - they are in East Cheshire. As a local, I can assure they are indeed known as the East Cheshire Hunt. It helps distinguish them from the the Cheshire Hunt itself. There is animosity and occasionally overlap between the two hunts - calling them the East Cheshire Hunt makes it more identifiable which hunt you are actually following.
Dig any deeper Leanne and you will find yourself in Austrailia.
If you are indeed "a local" you will also be aware of the fact that "The Cheshire Hunt" (http://www.thecheshirehunt.co.uk/) is a completely separate pack from the The Cheshire Forest (http://www.mfha.org.uk/directory/cheshire-forest/view/cheshire/) (which you referred to above) and the North East Cheshire Drag (http://www.necdh.co.uk/) Hounds
According to the Master of fox Hounds Association there are six (http://www.mfha.org.uk/directory/cheshire/)
packs in Cheshire,
Do you want another go at trying to remember which meet that you "claimed" you went to in order to carry out your "research", after all you have tried three, so you may as well try the other three
Dig any deeper Leanne and you will find yourself in Austrailia.
If you are indeed "a local" you will also be aware of the fact that "The Cheshire Hunt" (http://www.thecheshirehunt.co.uk/) is a completely separate pack from the The Cheshire Forest (http://www.mfha.org.uk/directory/cheshire-forest/view/cheshire/) (which you referred to above) and the North East Cheshire Drag (http://www.necdh.co.uk/) Hounds
According to the Master of fox Hounds Association there are six (http://www.mfha.org.uk/directory/cheshire/)
packs in Cheshire,
Do you want another go at trying to remember which meet that you "claimed" you went to in order to carry out your "research", after all you have tried three, so you may as well try the other three
WTF are you on about? I just stated that?!?!? Please reread what I wrote as I think you have misread it. You have quoted me and then rewritten the very thing that I stated. I think that you are that het up with 'proving' something against me that you aren't thinking straight. What does it matter what pack I went out (once) with anyway. I only mentioned it to state that I found the whole thing a bit distasteful.
Edit - the Cheshire Forest is also sometimes known as the Cheshire Farmers due to there being a large proportion of members who are farmers.
WTF are you on about? I just stated that?!?!? Please reread what I wrote as I think you have misread it. You have quoted me and then rewritten the very thing that I stated. I think that you are that het up with 'proving' something against me that you aren't thinking straight. What does it matter what pack I went out (once) with anyway. I only mentioned it to state that I found the whole thing a bit distasteful.
Edit - the Cheshire Forest is also sometimes known as the Cheshire Farmers due to there being a large proportion of members who are farmers.
the foul language in youre post is distastefull. try to bow out graceful
WTF are you on about? I just stated that?!?!? Please reread what I wrote as I think you have misread it. You have quoted me and then rewritten the very thing that I stated. I think that you are that het up with 'proving' something against me that you aren't thinking straight. What does it matter what pack I went out (once) with anyway. I only mentioned it to state that I found the whole thing a bit distasteful.
Edit - the Cheshire Forest is also sometimes known as the Cheshire Farmers due to there being a large proportion of members who are farmers.
Wrong again Leanne, The Cheshire Farmers (http://www.cfdh.org/)are also a drag hunt.
4 down and 2 to go
the foul language in youre post is distastefull. try to bow out graceful
I think that she is hoping that Mods close thread so that she can not be humiliated any further
I think that she is hoping that Mods close thread so that she can not be humiliated any further
how ironic that you'll stick up for the foxes, but will happily hound a fellow human to the ends of the thread for what you perceive as her being a 'fraud'.
how ironic that you'll stick up for the foxes, but will happily hound a fellow human to the ends of the thread for what you perceive as her being a 'fraud'.
If "her" is Leanne, then I (and others) have given her several opportunities to retire gracefully.
If not Leanne who are you referring to? and is it relevant to this thread
Wrong again Leanne, The Cheshire Farmers (http://www.cfdh.org/)are also a drag hunt.
4 down and 2 to go
Actually I am not wrong. Am I wrong because you say I am wrong? I have been there and got the tshirt - nothing you can say can take that history away from me despite you claiming it didn't happen :roll:. Grief all this for saying I went to one lousy hunt!
Edit - at least while you're having a go at me you're laying off the OP now.
Shabbychic
07-Jun-10, 01:58
While we are on the subject of foxes and farmers, is it not true that the main diet in the countryside for foxes, is not chickens or lambs, but rabbits, rats and pigeons? So by that thinking, if foxes were eradicated, wouldn't the rabbits etc., cause far more damage than any fox could do?
You are a gutsy lady. You've made your case brilliantly and good naturedly. I for one am completely convinced. More and more I am seeing the ORG as being some sort of madhouse. (Whoops, I nearly wrote "hen house"
Are any of our ORG fox lovers by any chance investigating the aeronautical abilities of pigs?
porshiepoo
07-Jun-10, 08:04
Righto before bowing out of this thread I would like to apologise to Leanne if I have gotten at all offensive toward her in any of my posts.
Fox hunting is a very emotive subject to me and I will never ever agree with the re-introduction of it, however I do understand that Leanne et al are entitled to have a completely different opinion born on their own experience and circumstance.
In Leannes defence I would have to say that I could not accurately name the hunts I participated in either. Research would probably jog my memory but it was so long ago that if I named it without checking then I would probably get it wrong too.
I suspect Veekay knew what reaction such a thread would invoke and while I am not suggesting that this was the intent of the thread as such I do not feel the need to apologise for hijacking the thread on my anti hunting beliefs.
Many many orgers are obviously affected by the thought of this barbaric sport being acceptable to the public and as such insults are flying left, right and centre.
That is something I choose not to take part in.
At the end of the day anyone who keeps livestock of any kind has to be prepared to ensure that they are kept safely,or they will lose some,I am NOT saying that Veekay or anyone else isnt keeping their livestock correctly-before anyone tries to pin that on me,but foxes and other animals will take advantage if they are hungry,they are just following their survival instinct afterall,so I guess its a case of making sure you have taken every possible precaution to stop this happening.Yes its expensive,but if you choose to rear animals then you have to be prepared to ensure their safety or count the cost afterwards,its not like foxes are something new we have to deal with x
Woo hoo! And Pegasus calls me a fraud ;)
I would not go so far as that. I was simply interested that this variation in Pegasus's prose is extremely similar to a previous Org members.
This 'could' of course, be down to rapid typing, causing missed keys; i.e. typing 'thr' for 'the' - as the letter 'e' is next to letter 'r' et al.
Although not trained I would doubt if this is Dyslexia. (I may be wrong?)
I can understand the need to control fox populations. However anyone who thinks a fox hunt is a form of population contol/culling must also think that bull fighting is a means to control cattle numbers in Spain.
Lets call fox hunts what they are: fun for people. A blood "sport". Enjoyment in the cruel death of an animal. NOT population control.
Boy I really didn't expect to start such a bun fight. Of course I realised that there are strong feeling on both sides of the 'fox hunting' table and of course I know that keeping livestock has its hazards - my live stock is well fenced in all precautions taken - but foxed still cause havoc they don't actually have to get into the pens, animals sense them being there. All I want is some sort of control like it or not fox is vermin, I bet there wouldn't be such a kick up about rabbits, rats, mice, I was going to say grey squirrel but perhaps not.
Boy I really didn't expect to start such a bun fight. Of course I realised that there are strong feeling on both sides of the 'fox hunting' table and of course I know that keeping livestock has its hazards - my live stock is well fenced in all precautions taken - but foxed still cause havoc they don't actually have to get into the pens, animals sense them being there. All I want is some sort of control like it or not fox is vermin, I bet there wouldn't be such a kick up about rabbits, rats, mice, I was going to say grey squirrel but perhaps not.
Yeah there would :eek:
While we’re on the subject of foxes I have to declare being a teeny bit sceptical about the alleged fox attack on the two baby sisters.
Lots of experts telling us it has never happened before and it would be so far outside even urban fox behaviour as to suggest a very disturbing occurrence. Of course every fox in the area is being slaughtered [disgust]
Yeah there would :eek:
While we’re on the subject of foxes I have to declare being a teeny bit sceptical about the alleged fox attack on the two baby sisters.
Lots of experts telling us it has never happened before and it would be so far outside even urban fox behaviour as to suggest a very disturbing occurrence. Of course every fox in the area is being slaughtered [disgust]
Hmm you could be right - not wishing to cast aspersions on the people - don't know enough. But IF it was a 'dodgy' dog, then this fact might well be hidden, for obvious reasons.. There might well be more to this story later?
'Occasionally the press reports attacks on children that are said to be by foxes, but very often the bite wounds do not appear to be typical fox bites. It is not impossible that a child could be bitten by a fox but, if it occurs, it is extremely rare. In comparison, the risk of injury from domestic dogs and cats is very much higher. For example, in the USA about 5 million people are bitten by dogs each year and 15 to 20 people die from dog bites yearly. Most of the victims are children. Similarly, there are more than 400,000 cat bites each year in the USA. There are no good statistics from Britain, but it is likely that the number of dog and cat bites is around a fifth of those recorded in the USA. Even in countries where rabies is present, humans are much more likely to be bitten by a rabid domestic dog than by a fox.
The risks of people being attacked by a fox are negligible compared to the risks of being attacked by a domestic dog or cat'.
http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/urbanfoxes/urbanconflict.html (http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/urbanfoxes/urbanconflict.html)
Yeah there would :eek:
While we’re on the subject of foxes I have to declare being a teeny bit sceptical about the alleged fox attack on the two baby sisters.
Lots of experts telling us it has never happened before and it would be so far outside even urban fox behaviour as to suggest a very disturbing occurrence. Of course every fox in the area is being slaughtered [disgust]
Well ducati I commend you for putting your head above the parapet. OH and I had our suspicions from the start and the more we read reports and hear/saw on the TV the more sceptical we have become.
northener
08-Jun-10, 10:02
Yeah there would :eek:
While we’re on the subject of foxes I have to declare being a teeny bit sceptical about the alleged fox attack on the two baby sisters.
Lots of experts telling us it has never happened before and it would be so far outside even urban fox behaviour as to suggest a very disturbing occurrence. Of course every fox in the area is being slaughtered [disgust]
I sincerely hope you're wrong about all the foxes in the area being destroyed, D. Bloody ridiculous if that's the case.
And yes, I agree that this 'fox' has acted in such an unusual manner that it makes me question whether it was actually a fox.
Going off at a tangent, I wonder how many 'concerned parents' (who are happy to see all the local foxes destroyed) would have been absolutely furious at the idea a few weeks ago.....
Well ducati I commend you for putting your head above the parapet. OH and I had our suspicions from the start and the more we read reports and hear/saw on the TV the more sceptical we have become.
'sOK I have a thick head
Not another conspiracy theory.
That's interesting:
"Fox caught on camera after attack on twins in London"
A fox was photographed by a police officer just after a suspected attack on twin baby girls in their home in Hackney, east London.
He spotted the animal through a patio door and took a photo using his mobile phone after the attack on Saturday.
It is not certain whether it is the fox thought to have mauled the twins.
One of the girls who was injured, Lola Koupparis, is "a lot better", relatives have said. She is in a stable condition at the Royal London Hospital.
The nine-month-old is being treated for facial injuries and puncture marks to her arm.
Her sister Isabella is under sedation after surgery at Great Ormond Street for arm injuries she received.
The girls were attacked in their cots.
After the attack, pest controllers set fox traps in the back garden.
An animal found in one of the devices on Monday was humanely destroyed by a vet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10276286.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10276286.stm)
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